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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:45 PM
Original message
The Money Masters - BEST/MOST INFORMATIVE 3.5 hours you
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 11:05 PM by Mind_your_head
will spend.

Two (at least) fellow DU'ers mentioned this documentary in a post a few days ago. So, I watched the whole 3.5 hours last night. I've not made any posts/comments since watching it.....gotta let it all 'soak in'/'verify', but I believe this is a VITALLY important movie to watch if you want to help yourself understand, "what's really going on here"?.

The thing that REALLY helped me to UNDERSTAND what they were often talking about in "The Money Changers" was that I had watched the movie, "Money as Debt" several/many weeks beforehand, which is a movie that teaches one about the 'fractional reserve banking system' - what it is and how it works. (I might have 'nodded' at the term, but I didn't REALLY understand it until I watched this little movie).

One must understand the concept/principles of the fractional reserve system before one can understand "the money changers". But, WOW! What an education it all is! Please take the time to watch before going off blathering about something (*I*'ve been very guilty of doing this myself - for NOW I'm silent, but that little bit of extra knowledge/insight changes one's entire perspective ~ in ways perhaps utterly unexpected.

Peace,
M_Y_H

Watch first: ('Money as Debt' and the fractional reserve banking system) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

Then watch: The Money Masters: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

Will come back and edit wi

th the links to watch. My system is about to crash with all of this video running/open, but I want to get this posted before I close and reboot.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Excuse me, but how do you know any of what you're watching is correct?
"Money as Debt" is rife with errors and is closer to RW anti-Federal Reserve propaganda. For example, how do you know Grignon has the slightest idea what he's talking about? Just because someone makes a "documentary" about something doesn't make it true.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Is the explanation about how the fractional reserve system creates "money from nothing"
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 11:00 PM by Mind_your_head
INCORRECT!?

"Money as Debt" is 'rife' with errors? Please name one or two
'errors', as an example.

edit: spelling
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It's fair to say that fractional reserve banking "creates money from nothing"...
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 11:49 PM by SDuderstadt
but how else would you create it? Obviously, as our country's population grows, we need to increase the money supply, which is why a central bank is necessary. I'm hardly saying that the Federal Reserve is above scrutiny, however, "documentaries" like "Money as Debt" thrive on the lack of knowledge of the average person about the Federal Reserve.

How does value created in an economy get monetized? As the economy creates more value, should we merely increase the value of the currency? Would that be workable?

Here's a little bit of Grignon's self-described history. Does it sound like he has any specific expertise in central banking, economics or monetary systems to you?

Born in Toronto, Canada in 1948, I first became suspicious of our money system when I was in high school in Ottawa. We were studying logarithmic functions such as interest and it struck me that a money system in which money accrues interest at every turn could only function with exponential growth of the money supply. Something did not make sense to me. I wasn’t sure what it was but I had a strong feeling that banking was a scam designed to benefit bankers at the expense of everyone else. I vowed never to get into debt to bankers.

As fortune would have it I got to (mostly) fulfill that vow. As a hitchhiking, backpacking young adult I was led to Gabriola, a forested coastal island off British Columbia, Canada where the building code was not yet in effect. My partner and I were able to take up residence in a tent, then a shack and as the years went by, and our four children arrived, our primitive shelter without water or power gradually evolved into a modest but comfortable owner-built paid-for home. This was achieved on a sporadic income that would never have been sufficient to buy a home had we gone the conventional mortgage route.

For several years, I made my living in the logging industry as a seasonal tree planter until injury forced me off the slopes. Taking whatever jobs I could get at first, I eventually established myself in my longtime ambition to be a landscape painter and visual artist. (http://www.paulgrignon.com)


Or, is it likely that he's trying to analyze a highly complex and difficult to understand subject and, in the process, is misinforming people, despite being well-intentioned? In fact, Grignon casts the entire subject in conspiracy theory language to make it sound nefarious. A much better source of information is at the link following. I'd take what Grignon says with a hefty grain of salt.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking



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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "Money as Debt" is rife with errors and is closer to RW anti-Federal Reserve propaganda. "
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 11:13 PM by JohnyCanuck
Someone should tell Elizabeth Kucinich.

Here's what she said about "Money as Debt"


Elizabeth J. Kucinich, monetary reform activist partner of
Congressman, and US Presidential aspirant, Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)

"I have worked for a long time looking into monetary reform and after 10 years, finally someone has produced a DVD entitled "Money as Debt". It is a fabulous fun yet powerful introduction to the issue of monetary reform. It's the best over view I have seen so far; the best by far. ESSENTIAL! Everyone should watch it!

The topic of DebtMoney is THE issue of our times. It forms the basis to every nation's areas of core material and spiritual concerns such as economic development, employment and environmental sustainability.

If only government officials, civil society organizations, environmental groups, unions and well meaning international development strategists trying to eradicate poverty really understood this topic... the world would be a much better place.

http://moneyasdebt.net (click on reviews)


For anyone who cares to watch it, it is available online here:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money+as+debt&emb=0&aq=f#
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Please provide the link. Thanks.
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 11:20 PM by Mind_your_head
and IT IS NOT RIFE WITH ERROS! If you think it's full of errors, please EXPLAIN/HIGHLIGHT those errors!

If you can't provide/explain the supposed 'errors', I guess that leaves you being/holding "one big bag o' shit".

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Appeal to authority....
so, because Elizabeth Kucinich "endorses" it, that makes it true? Did you note the other endorsements? Did you notice that they are primarily monetary conspiracy theorist types? Is it possible that "Money as Debt" is Libertarian nonsense/propaganda masquerading as a "documentary"?
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. BINGO. How do we know what is real vs. propogandized? nt
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well, I really really enjoyed watching these two movies. It was "refreshing" and "illuminating" to
*ME*. Your mileage may vary.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. And if it's inaccurate....
how would you know? That's my point.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. How would YOU know? (you're creeping me out) n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Because I studied economics and central banking in...
undergraduate school.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. So that's makes you an 'expert'? B/C *they* gave you a degree
and saud (sorry, said) you *know*/agree enough with what they want you to *agree* with?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Who the fuck are "they"?
Edited on Mon Sep-29-08 12:24 AM by SDuderstadt
You're sounding more and more like a conspiracy theorist. I think my econ professors (who were all liberal Democrats, by the way) knew what they were talking about. Again I ask...what reason do you have to believe that Paul Grignon has the slightest idea what he is talking about?
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