Perspectives from a trader through these vicious times...

[Lucky Luciano]

(edited for privacy concerns proud patriot-moderator Democratic Underground)

Well, this has been a hairy couple of weeks to say the least...Like a big game of whack-a-mole. One problems comes up, you try to smash it, and out comes another one...

This is written as thoughts pop into my head. So it is disroganized and a bit rambly....much like trading this past week. I also did not proofread it, so I may look illiterate at times. I just wanted to make sure I wrote something that I could look back on some day to make sure I remember these days.

I have included some fun Bloomberg charts and emails for illustration.

My personality: Extremophile.

Skip to just below the line of ******** after the fourth paragraph to get past my personal life BS and go straight to the Wall St stuff.

Just a little background on myself. I had been lazy much of my life. In fact I went to grad school for mathematics and completed a PhD at (edited) because it meant that I could spend time never getting up early (read: get up at noon) as I took my time to fulfill my academic obligations working just a few hours per day after I finished the first year courses. Of course, I have some expensive tastes such as sushi, a little bit of partying, and exotic world travel (nothing material though). Lo and behold, I found myself in incredible debt upon graduation ($70K on the CCs and $60K in student loans). I was not worried as I felt I was guaranteed to succeed.

It was six months before I defended my dissertation on (edited) theories that I joined DU outraged by the fuck-up in chief - what a fucking muppet that guy is! Well, I never made a resume in my life (Only income I ever earned was from tutoring the kids in (edited) and being a TA for math classes) and I had never had an internship anywhere let alone an I-Bank. I thought my math PhD was my free entry pass. It was not. I had to learn more applied math and C++ to be thought of as a viable candidate as they expect this from PhDs that they hire. So I spent six months after I graduated learning that stuff. After a lot of disappointments (Toughest time in my life actually), I did not get discouraged as I do have the attitude of being invincible and impossible to defeat...but my CC debt increased to 90K. I was "All-In" as they say in poker. I would be a trader or a bankrupt disgrace.

Finally, someone took a liking to me on a quantitativae analyst desk, but only as a temp. They paid me $52 per hour plus overtime - I worked 80 hours a week to pay off that fucking debt. This worked for ten months. I did not want to be a quant - I wanted to be a trader. I wanted to be in the trenches battling and taking risks - not programming and being the nerd. Finally, in July of 2006, I was hired full time on our proprietary trading desk building trading models and trading them (MUCH BETTER!) and had health insurance for the first time in 3 years. I would be paid $110K plus a bonus. During my temp work, I was paid twice as much per week, but long term this would be much better as bonuses are astronomical in this business. Seven months later I got a $200K bonus of which $50K came in stock that had to vest over three years. The big boss probably got $10 to $20MM in bonus. He made a fantastically well calculated play and his personal PnLof over $200MM was realized too - not some illiquid shit with a favorable mark that got many their big bonuses.

Then 2007 came. Our desk did much worse (The big guy left to start a hedge fund and a new guy was in charge - he is competent, but the landscape had changed). In 2006 we made $350MM for the bank, but in 2007 we only squeaked out a small gain. My bonus was only $60K, which sounds great to many, but I live in Manhattan and pay $3,300 per month in rent for a 550 sq foot one bedroom! It is expensive here - and one must not forget that a second year employee expects to get paid at least as much as they did in their first year. The more senior guys have much more volatile bonuses - going from large to small to large to very large depending on their masive PnLs. This year I may get no bonus at all. Our desk is down small - so we are outperforming others by a huge amount as they are down big, but that does not help my bonus which could be zero...might be time to move to Queens - if I still have a job. How depressing.

*******************************************************************

The weeks before Lehman went bust were volatile for Lehman's stock and not in a good way. LEH was behaving a lot like Bear's stock was behaving before it got crushed and sold to JPM at firesale prices. Investors knew that if Lehman did not sell its prized asset management division (Neuberger Berman was worht $10B by most) to someone, they were fucked. LEH was $16 when we decided to buy 3,000 Oct $10 puts for $0.77 (We risked $231K = 300K * 0.77 in capital as that gives us the right to sell 300,000 shares of LEH for $10 before the third Friday in October). The options market implied there was a 7.5% chance that LEH would go to less than $0.20 per share. We felt there was at least a 25% chance that they went bankrupt. Sounds like a fantastic bet with great odds in our favor. Unfortunately, we were right. We made $2.7MM on the options trade, but lost elsewhere.

On the Friday before the fateful weekend when Lehman ended, the stock was around $3 per share, but people thought a bailout at the last second would occur, so people were afraid to be super bearish and afraid to short stocks, lest they have their faces ripped off by a bailout that would cause the market to rally huge.

On Sunday I drove upstate with my dog (a beautiful pit mix!) to Minnewaska State Park to hike in what I consider the absolute most beautiful area of New York State. Beautiful vistas adorn and blanket the area. I love that place. I had my cell phone in my pocket to keep track of the time (or my g/f would be furious if I was late for dinner!) as I did not expect any reception. Strangely, at a very remote spot in the park, my phone rang. It was my boss. He said, "I am not sure if you have heard, but it is looking like Lehman is well and truly fucked. You might want to get in at 5:45am (usually it is 6:45) so we can all go over this and also help go through the CDS contracts that we have with Lehman." Since LEH traded CDS with our desk that was now null and void, it cost our desk about $5MM - a relatively small number because we are primarily an equities desk that only occasionally trades CDS.

Oh boy...it was really happening. This is not a test. This is the real deal. Not like Bear Stearns. This would be the real deal. Fannie and Freddie had already been effectively nationalized with the government raking 80% stakes in the businesses after a close look at their books revealed some shenanigans. Who was next? I was wondering. They will likely target Merrill next as they are the next weakest I-Bank. When I got home from the park, I saw that Bannk of America had struck a deal with MER - good move. MER would have been next for sure. The Grim Reaper was coming. The four horseman of the apocalypse were LEH, AIG, WM (WaMu), and the GSEs (Fannie and Freddie). They already got the GSEs and LEH. Next up was AIG with Merrill protected by BAC. AIG had gotten mixed up in the mortgage mess with some shitty SIVs and the sellers, many of whom were short, were pounding the fuck out of them. AIG did not raise enough capital to protect themselves from a ratings downgrade. If they got downgraded, then their positions would require billions more in collateral which they did not have. The downgrade was coming. There was nothing that could be done to save the shareholders. Brokers telling me that they are hearing about a 50 million share block for sale out on the street. The street is dumping. The death is coming. Here is a 30 days trading chart of AIG:



On Tuesday 1.2 billion shares of AIG traded out of a possible float of 2.4B. Insane. Insane. The next day, the US government announced a rescue package requiring $85B in loans to AIG that would have a coupon of 8.50% + LIBOR and an 80% equity stake in the company through warrants. The shareholders were obliterated, but AIG's counterparties and debtholders were temporarily given a stay of execution. AIG defaulting on their counterparties would have obliterated the financial system. There would be no lending of money anywhere. Basically, you were alright if you were living on a commune and required little from the outside world, but ex-that you were going to be hurt by this in a major way...it is a damn good thing that AIG was backstopped. The alternative was so much worse.



This is the top holder's list for AIG. Look at those guys that got fucked in the last capital raise where they paid roughly $40 per share for many millions of shares that are down over 90%. Look at Maurice "Hank" Greenberg - a former billionaire through his personal holdings and percentage ownership in Starr. Look how the US Government is the number one shareholder now. Wow. Crushed.

So, AIG was now dead and old news. The Grim Reaper was on the prowl though. Since everyone is afraid to lend to anyone - no matter how good they had been in the past, overnight funding rates skyrocketed. If this became a permanent development, no investment bank could withstand the oncoming destruction. As good as Goldman had been, if their short term funding were to be cut off, they were doomed. Even mighty Goldman was about to go down. How could this be? WTF! With short term funding very much in doubt, the sellers and the shorts pounded the fuck out of GS and MS (morgan Stanley). They were correct to do this given the news of the day. The shorts are often the best police of the stock market and offer a check on the financial system as well as additional liquidity from their selling and buying. Below are charts on MS and GS (GS had been $160 the week before the Reaper arrived!):




This was absolute madness. I was doing my best to protect our positions. I trade for others in addition to myself. Many others do a lot of analysis and ask me to put on trades. One guy whow was trading in one of his stock saw it plummet by 80% in one day - the stock was trading at 20% of book value (an insurance company that I will not name).

"Hey Lucky (me), what the fuck is going on with XYZ? Why the fuck is down so much?"
I stand up and shout across the room, "I don't know. They are after all things financial. They are crushing everyone. it is indiscrimate. Could be a forced liquidation of a hedge fund. There is no rhyme or reason to this. Let me call around."

I called all my brokers and none of them had any good color. Hard to get color sometimes because so many people trade in the machines and you cannot find out if it is one large seller puking the stock or if there is some fundamental problem causing the destruction that is not yet out there. My guy had 800K shares of this stock at $15. It went down to $3.50 on Thursday at 1:00pm. We were crushed. Selling it would make no point. We had finally got through to the management who said they were going to defend themselves and that their liquidity was fine. They had plenty of capital. We bought 300,000 shares just under $4 per share. The market turned drastically at midday on Thursday as talk of a bailout plan was spoken of. We bought a total of 1MM shares for $5.62 and the stock closed at $9 or so. Good trading, but we were still sideswiped and dizzy - and net down on the day from all the other crap that was happening.

Also on Thursday we continued to see the meltdown in Goldman and Morgan Stanley, but a new problem came up. The Reserve Primary Fund, a money market fund had "Broken The Buck." Money market funds are not supposed to lose money, but this one did because of its exposure to Lehman's commercial paper. This was serious. State Street (STT) and Federated (FII) have large money market funds. If one fund had broken the buck, then maybe others have as well. A panic developed and people started crushing STT and FII. These were very stable companies (although STT did have to raise $3B in capital due to a bad SIV, but they were otherwise fine), especially FII. The sellers came in relentlessly as panic set in and fear of money market redemptions gripped the markets. Lightning struck!!! (STT and FII charts for the week of Sep 15 below):




It was really getting out of control. It felt like the market was going to zero. The stock for my company was down 40% on the week. We were famous for having made some spectacular writedowns as well, but we had a huge deposit base of cash and had already raise $28B in capital with only a small bit of writedowns left to make. I thought we were safe-ish. Our stock was getting creamed. One asshole analyst had put out a note that we would lose $4B from our Lehman counterparty exposure. That was false - it is roughly $300MM. Others defended us...but not before one guy on our desk whom I like a lot, sold $2MM of his personal stock in a panic. I wish he had come to me before doing that because I saw that our CDS was "only" 350 bps for a five year contract. Goldman was out at 700 bps and Morgan Stanley was out at 20 points up front plus 500 bps!!! FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR worse (I will explain if asked why). That our CDS was only 350 bps gave me some solace, but even I was getting nervous....I am usually too cool to get nervous. By contrast, our CDS was about 7 bps during the good times. In other words, during the good times, it would only cost $7,000 per year to insure $10MM of our debt for each year of a five year contract. Now that had grown to $350K per year. The US Government Sovereign Debt even has a CDS. Someone showed me a bid of 22 bps! HOLY SHIT! So, my bank two years ago was a better credit than the US Fucking Goverment is today. That is bad news. Very fucking bad news. Of course, selling USA Sovereign CDS is a lot like selling asteroid insurance. If the US defaults, then all banks are out of business and all central banks are crushed...to the barter system we go! I hope we all like being cavemen! A CDS quote for MS and GS on Sep 17:



Ok....so now it looks like a rescue plan is being considered....but what came next was shocking! The SEC banned shortselling of financial stocks. Ohhhhhhh fuck! Now they are changing the rules in the middle of the game in a big way. Futures were up 3% by 9pm on Thursday. Oh boy. Right when people have capitulated on owning any financial long and have gotten deeply short, the government goes and pulls this stunt! The mother of all short squeezes was coming. It would be violent and unreal. The market was going to absolutely rip higher.

My boss calls at 3:00am and says we need to get in super early - it will be out of control. He was right. There was nowhere to go but up. Nobody but the most dedicated short wanted to stay short (Such a person would likely have a huge position and know they are fundamentally correct - and could ride out the storm). If you did not buy back your short, then the other guy might do it before you driving the price higher. The panic buying began premarket. Millions of shares were trading in the premarket to get out of shorts that would be smoked. By 8:45 or so, the S&P futures were limit up. Futures were not allowed to go up by more than 65 points premarket - that limit was at 1268 for the S&P 500. I don't know the last time that occurred. The bidding interest developed. I saw on my futures trading platform that there were 15,000 e-mini contracts (Each of which represents 50 shares of the S&P 500 or roughly $60K per contract) being bid for by 9:30 - the futures would reopen once the market officially opened at 9:30.

BANG! They opened the futures up at 9:30 with the futures having a high print of 1291 because of all the market orders and lack of sellers sitting in the system waiting desperately to get their fills. The market quickly traced to 1260...and got to a low of 1240 or so and stabilized - it was still up a lot. The day would close with the market up about 4% - a ripping up day. We did well because of that 1MM share purchase mentioned previously - it was on the restircted list and was up about 60% on the day. Still well below book value of the company though and frustrating us. Futures chart - note that futures trade almost for all but 45 minutes a day from Sunday at 6:00 to Friday at 4:15. They do not trade from 4:15 to 4:30 and 5:30 to 6:00pm:



As unreal as all this was, let us remember some things. We still have not had nearly the number of bank failures that we had in 1991. They are coming. The bailout package is not exactly going to be free money. It will prevent chain reaction of bad bank failures from crushing good banks. Sorry to say it, but all but those living on a commune want some kind of rescue to happen whether they know it or not. There will be more failures - WM failed yesterday and was seized by the FDIC, but their assets were protected by JPM who scooped them up at fire sale prices - a great move. JPM took a big write down on WM's bad assets which can be considered the cost of the purchase - which greatly increases JPM's capital - not to mention that they raised $10B in capital by selling their shares to insitutions yesterday (Goldman did it too as did Capital One). Might as well while the short sale rules are in effect. I expect a lot more financial institutions to raise dilutive capital while these rules are in effect. Now or never - no matter what the Treasury does. All banks would prefer to participate minimally in any government bailout especially if executive compensation limits are imposed. Raising capital would be better.

Note also that since the FDIC did not have to use any of their insurance money because JPM protected the assets at WM, the FDIC has a lot more bullets. Another good things is that the FDIC fucked up a little with IndyMac's failure. When they seized IndyMac they started Indy's bad loans at firesale prices causing any and all bidders for mortgage assets to back away lest they get runover! This caused the value of mortgage asets to get marked down viciously further! With JPM stepping in and preventing such firesales, marks don't have to come lower for the other banks. A good thing.

Another interesting thing is the VIX. This is the volatility index. Volatility, intuitively is the lognormal standard deviation of annualized returns for stocks (or whatever asset is being considered). The higher the standard deviation, the more volatile and risky. The options market (puts and calls and more exotic instruments) are priced using volatility. The more volatile a stock is, the more expensive a put or call should be. The options are like insurance and riskier insurance should be more expensive is one way to look at it. Options are priced using six variables. The time to expiration, the strike price, Price of the underlying, dividends, interest rates, and volatility. Volatility is hard to quantify though because past vol is not future vol. Divs and interest rates are not perfectly predictable either, but the option prices are usually less sensitive to these variables. Volatility, on the other hand is very hard to predict, so when pricing an option, it is hard to know what vol to use. Often times, people just take the price of an option and find the vol that would give that price. That is called the implied volatility of the option. The VIX in some sense is the average implied volatility of an option of the S&P 500 index (it is a little more complicated than that, but is good enough for illustrative purposes).

During the good times, the VIX was super low near 10! That is amazingly low! During such times, the markets typically go up in small increments. A very high VIX during a bull market, to me, is a sign of a bubble economy - see 1999-2000 VIX numbers. Anything around 14-16 is average. 10 is very very fucking low and over 20 is definitely high. 30 occurs during times of danger when people start to panic. A VIX of 40 is full blown panic. We did get to a VIX of 42 on Thursday September 17 just before the market popped midday on talk of a bailout.

The VIX has been higher than 42 three times in the last ten years. The first time was during the Asian financial crisis of 1998 that severely threatened global markets until the IMF intervened and lent money in a most predatory fashion. The second time was right after September 11, 2001. The third time was during the crisis of corporate fraud that infected Wall St during 2002. I think the current crisis dwarves all those three other crises and yet the VIX has only reached 42. I think we reach unprecedented levels - possibly around 55 before sanity returns. After a bailout happens (it will - and believe me, it needs to happen), there will be some respite and the VIX will probably return to 25 or so....then Wachovia or someone like that might fail...and maybe Wells Fargo will sccop them up or something (incidentally, WFC made a record high on Sep 18th - pretty fucking amazing for a financial company to be at a record high through this mess)...after that the failures will come in a big way and there will be no bidders. Maybe some bad banks will all join forces at the same time like the crazy merger mania for banks in Japan during their calamitous 1990s. My girlfriend is from Japan and told me stories of four banks merging together at the same time to avoid total collapse of the system.

Here is a chart of the VIX for the last 30 trading days:



As you can see, the VIX has been well above 30 for most of the last two weeks. Very scary times indeed. Also, you can see that VIX, in and of itself, is an extremely volatile index. People would say that the "Vol of Vol" is quite high. You can also trade options on the VIX for which you need to estimate the Vol of Vol to price the option. Here is a very bearish trade one of my options brokers sent to me:



The customer bought 15,000 VIX 50 strike calls (each contract is multiplied by 100). A VIX over 50 truly is armageddon. Someone placed a very large bet there that something very bad was going to happen. The 11/50 C means November 50 strike calls. The customer makes $1.5MM for each point that the VIX goes over 50. I don't know how much they paid for that option though, so the breakeven is not clear.

Here is a VIX chart from 1998 to the end of 2006:



You can see the 1998 crisis that gripped Asia (Russia also defaulted during this timeand Long Term Capital Management went down as well). You can see the VIX was high during the Dot Com bubble. Often in the 20-25 range - that is a very high VIX for an upmarket - sign of a bubble like I was saying. Buying puts was expensive because options traders know that what goes up quickly can also come down very quickly. You can see how the VIX gapped higher after Sep 11 and how high it was during the awful 2002 when corporate fraud scandals gripped Wall St. Once that settled, the market moved steadily higher on lower and lower vol. There was that hiccough you can see when Delphi filed for bankruptcy and Kirk kerkorian started rattling his sword in the auto secor in May 2005....but that only pushed the VIX to 23 or so - which was considered very high! The VIX got under 10 sporadically during this time and the options guys were quite bored.....

UNTIL!

Here is a VIX chart for 2007 to today which also has better intraday lines so you can see true highs and lows - not just a chart of closing VIX levels:



You can see how at the beginning of 2007, things were moving along rather swimmingly with a very low VIX. Then at the February - a major hiccough. China's market was down over 8% in one day and New Century, a subprime lender, looked like they were about to file bankruptcy. Subprime had entered the lexicon in a major way. I was amazed to watch the VIX go over 20 in such a short time. It was kind of exciting and interesting. The VIX retreated from there to 15 or so...not back to 10. People knew things were not quite right anymore, but the alarm bells were not flashing like they should have been. Then, August of 2007 those alarm bells went blasting off pretty fucking loud and things got scary as this "subprime" mess started to cause huge writedowns at the big banks and I-Banks. People got scared. Leverage buyouts immediately stopped as people needed debt for that and nobody wanted to lend money for such risky ventures. Countrywide led much of that scare. The VIX got to 36 very briefly and immediately retreated to the 20-26 range for most of the year. VIX below 20 now seems cheap. Some actions from the Fed did give a false sense of relief by the end of Sep 2007 that pushed the VIX below 20 again and the market to a record high for reasons that are not clear to me - morons were psuhing the market higher. I couldn't believe people were not more bearish.

The fourth quarter brought more writedowns and the market continued to be skittish. Just before Christmas, many people went on vacations (much needed) and the VIX came in again to cheap sub-20 levels. In January there were more big concerns and there was martin Luther King Day when Europe got absolutely hammered due to the subprime issues (but also because of a rogue trader at Soc Gen that forced a HUGE unwind with billions of notional that crushed the market). The Fed quickly intervened and cut rates 50 bps ot support the market. That was the VIX back out over 35, but it was very brief as these forays over 30 tend to be. The next time the VIX got over 30 was the Bear Stearns collapse on March 17 - and that brief as well as the market rallied from there. The S&P 500 actually got to 1440 after that as people thought that the Bear Stearns debacle was a sign of the bottom. The VIX came screaming in to 16. I was sure the VIX was a buy (by buying options - cheap puts sounded good to me), but I am too junior to put that trade on in size. Wish I could have. Now it was oil that was crushing the markets running to $147 per barrel at one time. That and the threat of more writedowns dominated the bearishness, but it was mostly oil now. When oil's price peaked in mid July the VIX corssed 30 again.

Then oil collapsed as all bubbles do and the market recovered some of its luster..and the VIX came in to 18ish near the end of August. I remembered saying, "Wow, the VIX is 18!" A senior trader on the desk who does not know options well asks what I think and I say, "It is a fucking buy. That is super cheap." No way I would get discretion for that as I have 250 million other things to watch let alone such a vol bet. I have to trade all the stock for all the PMs and watch all the news for all the stocks, field all of our phone calls from our 20 brokers, call our brokers very proactively when one of our stock in our massive portfolio moves aggressively without clear explanation...I do this with one other guy as a servies to the 20 others on our desk...and the one other guy and myself also manage our own shit...I am simply too junior to say that we should buy vol now - it is fucking cheap, but it was....As we now can see that in just a few weeks from that time, LEH, AIG, WM, FNM, FRE no longer exist in the prior forms. MER is to be swallowed. GS and MS have become bank holding companies, which will force their leverage and profits down...but the risks will go down too. The bailout package is not done, shortselling is severely resticted (fucking retarded - shortsellers provide liquidity - they may sell to you when you want to buy! Now it is hard to buy and sell in size without having significant market impact! Short sellers are also future buyers - and now I cannot sell to short that is buying back!), and uncertainty looms. This is the longest time I have seen the VIX over 30. Two weeks over 30 is crazy. It usually only lasts for a couple days, but this may last longer. Once a bailout is approved it will no doubt come back into the 20s for a brief respite, but it will come back into the 30s again. I am sure of it. A bailout will not mean we are out of the woods.

The economy sucks. People are unemployed. Oil and other commodities are still fucking expensive. Housing prices have not bottomed. Shit is still twisting in the fan.

It will take a few years to recover. Hopefully, when this mess is over, I can go back to collecting good bonuses - the kinds that grow exponentially from year to year during hte profitable times. I want to have $20MM in cash and a nice house/apartment in 10-12 years. I make no apologies for that. I like what I do, but would quit so I do not have to get up super early and do it every freaking day. Perhaps some consulting work and college teaching would suffice. I would ultimately use my excess spare time for adventure travel - it is my passion. In December I will explore the glaciers of Patagonia in Argentina and Chile. I will love it. I will just need the will to return to work!

I know we live in interesting times. May it not be a curse!

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Technical translation, if I get this right

we are far from hitting bottom

Oh and it took more than just a decade for them high bonuses to come back after the usual comparison... so perhaps you should be happy with having a job, a roof over your head et al

And peak oil may make those trips not doable

[JackRiddler]

2. Fascinating stuff. Thank you.

Very educational.

However, this is no way to run a society, as an arcane casino for predators. It will always lead to disaster for the greatest number.

You may be a brilliant gambler, and you may get your dream, but no one deserves 20 million and happy retirement for this.

[avaistheone1]

20. Sorta interesting. But not worth 20MM. I hope my bailout isn't paying for any of this.

[dchill]

109. "I hope my bailout isn't paying for any of this."

What do you think it's paying for? Health care? Education?
:shrug:

[stillcool]

3. Interesting read...

[JustAnotherGen]

4. k/r

[A HERETIC I AM]

5. Great post, Lucky. Fascinating.

It amazes me how the charts of MS & GS look so identical.

I enjoyed reading that.

Enjoy the fuck out of Patagonia, peak oil be damned.

[Lucky Luciano]

7. Yep...the charts often look the same when markets are

getting crushed. During crashes or periods of extreme volatility, correlation goes to one.

[phusion]

6. great stuff, fascinating...

thanks for sharing. A peek into a world I'll never fully understand. :hi:

[TahitiNut]

8. I find it very interesting how the "virtual reality" of the market becomes the reality ...

... and the "real world" becomes secondary, to be viewed only insofar as it stampedes herd behavior within the virtual reality. Strangely, the Heisenberg Effect is alive and well ... since the 'observers' (traders, buyers, sellers) in turn have an impact on the 'observed' (workers, seniors, children).

It's so easy to forget that this is 99% a 'secondary' market where the amounts paid/received on a trade almost never actually go to buy property, plant, or equipment, or pay a worker. That 'sale' happened many, many, many trades ago. Thus, the underlying 'reality' of capital (means of production, not money in the market) and labor is viewed merely as a 'leading indicator' for the reality of a market that excludes producers and is overrun with traders and owners/speculators that probably never saw the man or woman whose labor creates the underlying wealth.

Once upon a time (back in the 50s), when I was first introduced to the stock market, the prevalent school of thought was the 'fundamentalism' of sales, labor force, management experience, operations, and the longevity of the production base as science advanced. The upstart/minority school of thought was the 'technical' analyst that watched market behavior only, and was almost totally unconcerned with the businesses whose ownership was being traded. How the 'world' has changed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. The world you knew was driven by 1929

we will have to go back to that and away from technicals AGAIN

Who wrote that phrase about those who refuse to learn from history?

[TahitiNut]

11. I had a feeling you'd understand what I was describing, Nad.

As an old phart, I'm increasingly dismayed that the 'younguns' regard CRT displays as the 'real world' ... and are increasingly isolated from sweeping floors, inventorying pallets of rough castings, operating a drill press, digging a foundation, tilling a garden, milking a cow, clearing a septic tank leach field, collecting eggs in the chicken coop, baling hay, and the thousands of other HANDS-ON tasks upon which wealth is created and life is sustained.

Once upon a time, "working your way up" (where the bottom was a minimum wage job) was the Hallmark of a business strategy that ensured those who managed it actually comprehended what it was all about. We've made two mistakes in business ... the first was the "professional manager" who claimed a 'special' expertise superior to even beig able to FIND the factory, let alone do several of the jobs in it, and the second was the arbitrage/broker/beancounter who didn't een know how to manage PEOPLE or operate a business ... just how to drain it of every bit of salvageable wealth possible. I regard the latter as relating to good management like a body snatcher relates to a doctor.

I guess my manufacturing industry beginnings show through. I remember when the worst managers were the ones related to the owner ... e.g. Ford Motor Company and Kresge ... "family owned" corporations where the kids started at the top. I find it surprising that these are now regarded as 'ordinary' e.g. Waltons, etc.



I guess it's strange coming for a fella whose career was spent designing, programming, and building the business systems which folks now think were created along with Adam and Eve. (I've spent more of my life in front of CRTs than most can even imagine ... building the stuff that makes 'em work. I guess I'm pixellated.)

[catnhatnh]

13. Yep...

Things I have done...
Sweeping floors
Operating a drill press
Digging a foundation...

From your post, but also I have:
Pulled dredges on an oyster boat
Sold auto parts
Purchased industrial supplies
Plowed snow
Repaired School Busses
Wound electric motors
Built houses
Driven trucks
Operated heavy equipment
Shot photographs
Written news stories
Written editorials
Edited a newspaper
Operated a production fork truck
AND
Suffered a career ending injury

All before I was 45....

And never received any bonus that exceeded 5% of my pay. In my top earning year I made just under 50K.

I suppose that book smarts and laser-like focus has its place and rewards. And I truly believe this post is supposed to bring some kind of clarity to some form of are debate.

But even the OP must admit it appears he took cash and never provided any goods or services of tangible value to anyone not gaming the system. He may have been adept at moving promises of money but never actually added value to our society as anything but a number in a shell game.

[TahitiNut]

19. I was blessed ... even though I thought it was a curse.

Raised mostly by a single mom (who was married four times), the only way I had spending money (e.g. for blue suede shoes) or paid for my college tuition, fees and books ... was by working. Before I was 14 and could get a work permit, I mowed lawns, delivered newspapers, did construction apprenticing for my uncles, and anything else I could do. At the age of 14, I started caddying in the summer and doing stock clerking during school. Working my way through college, after two years in the Coast Guard Academy didn't work out, I did janitorial work, bussed tables, installed tires, drove a fork lift, worked on a receiving dock, stocked groceries overnight, and whatever else I could find. My family is blue collar ... mostly union. Only one of ten uncles was a 'success' ... and was on Soapy Williams staff. The rest, when they worked, did factory work. My dad was a barber and tool-maker. While I was first growing up, he installed sprinkler systems - copper piping and dug down below the hard frost line. Everyone in my family WORKED. LABOR. Most of the men weren't allowed into the house at the end of their workday until they removed their greasy shoes and dirty clothes in the back door landing. (It was a helluva motivation to get my college degrees.)

After graduation, and a year teaching high school, I was a 'natural' in manufacturing ... one of the college dweebs who didn't mind getting dirty and knew his way around a manufacturing plant. It stood me in good stead.

So... I was blessed with "book-smarts" and factory experience. In TODAY'S "job market" I'm unemployable. It's fucking bizarre.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. I know the feeling

I worked the streets as a medic
Managed medics as a company commander
Trained them, as a FTO
Wrote short ficiton
Edited
These days I write trying to find where to sell
Oh and never mind I have an MA in history I am also unemployable...

[Odin2005]

22. I totally agree with you. This MBA nonsense in crazy.

I'm one of those "younguns" (I'm 22) and I agree very much that a lot of these people going into business just don't get it. This notion that a person who is good at managing a car company will be good at managing a biotech company or a financial company is crazy. If I was on the Board of Directors of a company and am choosing a CEO I would want a person who knows the ins and outs of the industry, not some managerial mercenary that thinks his MBA is hot shit.

[TahitiNut]

25. An MBA is like a saddle. It's less than useless without a horse.

... and the 'horse' is hands-on experience. With that experience, it affords one the abstract framework and vocabulary to interact with the investors and bankers... and MAYBE some ideas about more efficient operations. It might make the ride easier, but it'd better be fitted correctly.

I've had MBA's from Harvard, Chicago, and Stanford working for me. Only the Chicago MBA's seemed to know how to find their way around. The others were about as useless as farts in a windstorm. The Chicago MBA's weren't necessarily Straussian or monetarists ... but they had some decent analytical and investigative skills. The Harvard and Stanford morons seemed to require help to do anything ... and on their own were helpless. They could TALK a good story and pontificate until the cows came home ... but the rubber never hit the road. The extent of their 'training' seemed to be limited to making an impression on the golf course.

[Lucky Luciano]

34. MBA does not guarantee respect...

actually not one person on ym desk of over 20 people has an MBA.

[girl gone mad]

83. The mentality of many coming out of MBA programs..

over the last 20 years has played a huge role in the destruction of our real economy.

Too much has been sacrificed in the mantra of 'short term profits to benefit the shareholders'.

[Raksha]

100. That reminds me of the old guild system of learning a trade,

and the three grades still in use by labor unions today--or what's left of labor unions anyway: apprentice, journeyman, master. Of course everyone had to start at the bottom. But by the time you worked your way up to master, there was no doubt in anyone's mind that you knew your stuff, because you had to be able to prove it.

Re Once upon a time, "working your way up" (where the bottom was a minimum wage job) was the Hallmark of a business strategy that ensured those who managed it actually comprehended what it was all about. We've made two mistakes in business ... the first was the "professional manager" who claimed a 'special' expertise superior to even beig able to FIND the factory, let alone do several of the jobs in it, and the second was the arbitrage/broker/beancounter who didn't een know how to manage PEOPLE or operate a business ...

And that's called...uh, progress, huh? Yeah, RIGHT!!!

[catnhatnh]

12. Yep, if I could K&R a post...

rather than a thread, this would be the one.

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. Color me weird, but I found this fascinating.

Pls. keep on writing...I think you have a book in you.

Me, I like reading this stuff, even if I don't understand the nitty-gritty.
If I did understand you correctly, you are saying somebody laid a huge bet that something bad is going to happen in Nov.
Is there a day or week attached to that huge bet?

I would appreciate any insights you have as the days go by.

[Parker CA]

26. I'm right there with you.

I followed most of this, although some of the acronyms flew over my head. I got the point of your explanations and understood the bulk of what was going on. I'm dismayed/disgusted/confused/curious about the person who will be paid 1.5mm for every point over 50 VIX that occurs, if it occurs, in Nov. WTF?

I am one whom would enjoy reading more of this. Even though this is a world I will only read about, it's fascinating on many levels.

Thanks for the personal account and description.

[Lucky Luciano]

36. The person who will be paid...

Well it would not be legal for the broker to tell me who did it, but it was ok for him to say that someone did it. I cannot say why the person has the bet. Could be a pure speculator - bear in mind, he may have paid $1.5MM for the option to see the VIX go to unprecedented levels. Could easily lose the entire premium - most likely he will. The odds are that he loses on the trade, but if he wins, it is likely that he gets paid better than 1:1.

He could also have the trade on as a hedge to his portfolio of stocks. If VIX goes to 50 it is extremely likely that he will lose a lot of money in the stocks that he owns and he would like for the VIX trade to offset it.

He might also have an options portfolio, we he is short volatility - easiest way to be short vol is to sell options. He will have his face ripped off if he is short vol in a large way and it blasts out over 50. I tend to think this is most likely, but I don't know.

[Lucky Luciano]

35. Doesn't have to happen on a specific day

http://www.cboe.com/micro/vix/vixoptions.aspx

[BrklynLiberal]

14. Fascinating.

[sendero]

15. You see why the ..

... pig men don't want the party to end. $20 million, patagonia for what? If this isn't a wake-up call that this shit has got to be over NOW, I don't know what one would be.

[roguevalley]

16. If I truly knew what all this meant, I would shoot myself. As for this ...

"It will take a few years to recover. Hopefully, when this mess is over, I can go back to collecting good bonuses - the kinds that grow exponentially from year to year during hte profitable times. I want to have $20MM in cash and a nice house/apartment in 10-12 years. I make no apologies for that. I like what I do, but would quit so I do not have to get up super early and do it every freaking day. Perhaps some consulting work and college teaching would suffice. I would ultimately use my excess spare time for adventure travel - it is my passion. In December I will explore the glaciers of Patagonia in Argentina and Chile. I will love it. I will just need the will to return to work!

"I know we live in interesting times. May it not be a curse!"

He's lucky he doesn't live next door to me. I would burn his fucking house down.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. What an incredibly lovely sentiment.

He's lucky he doesn't live next door to me. I would burn his fucking house down.

How tasteful.

[roguevalley]

24. so getting back on the gravy train, making 20m you didn't earn but

some schmuck in a mill did working for chump change and running around while half the world is in debt slavery doesn't bother you? Cool.
I am not a fan of leeches, of which this person's comment identifies himself as. Tut-tut back at ya.

[Mimosa]

29. Roguevalley, I agree in a way

Maybe the OP poster is a good person? I didn't see any indication Lucky Luciano might use his money to help anyone but himself.

LL, thanks for sharing your perspective, I hope you get taxed a whole lot to help people who aren't as lucky as you are. ~smile~

[roguevalley]

56. I have never had a problem paying taxes and would pay more to

help the people I have seen living on the street. I also expect ass bastards like him to think he has a share in the suffering too, other than his whining about losing his gravy train. I have no malice against anyone but criminals and the criminally indifferent.

[Lucky Luciano]

37. I love you too

Remember I am here at DU because I am on this side of the fence for the most part. I am more your friend than your enemy, but I also believe in the right to success.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. And You Have Every Right To It. Ignore Such Bitter Cry Baby Stuff.

Let him stamp his feet.

God bless ya, may you reach all your goals, and may you continue to find success!

[roguevalley]

55. I love ya back. I am serious. But I am also against malignant success.

the world is going to hell and he is already planning his huge success again with little work to show for it and his vacations and all the rest when people are living in their cars because of him. I don't have a problem with success. you misunderstand me. I have a problem with criminals.

[Lucky Luciano]

60. So, you reserve the same amount of hate for Hollywood actors

who do far less?

I do not do anything criminal. I buy and I sell. I have nothing to do with the mess we are in - the people responsible are actually a small group of people in each bank. The vast majority of people in this business did not get us in the mess and belive me I am fucking pissed off about it.

[roguevalley]

63. first of all, most of the people in the financial business don't have

control over this and never have. My focus was on those small number of asshats who put their personal bottom line over the welfare of our world. I taught for years. I had no control over how education has become, it was in the hands of the bastards elsewhere. If you want to include yourself into that small group of CEO and wheeler-dealers who put money over ethics, I can't stop you. My point wasn't you unless you ARE one of them, which I don't expect you are. As for Hollywood actors, what has that got to do with this?

You need to relax. This isn't about you. Your feelings of being pissed off about the ethical conditions of your profession brought about by criminals and asshats echoes my own about education. You were never the focus of my point. Unless you want to be. That's your choice.

[Lucky Luciano]

65. ok, but you talked about burning my house down.

..and hollywood actors make $20MM per film quite often for little to no work. Something you find despicable.

[Runcible Spoon]

70. actors are just lucky pawns. The real money is made producing. and YES they are just

as fucking responsible and guilty as a Gordan Gecko-fellating arbitrageur :mad:

[undergroundpanther]

72. Well

poor people get their houses taken by rich developer corporations and they don't get much say the politicians obey the money and boom rezoned..What's the big deal about 1 millionaires over sized house going down?
I think more millionaires should be forced to limit themselves.
Obviously they can't limit their greed on their own.
Because apparently their fortunate circumstances blind them to the reality of how much their lifestyles cost US.
Same goes for actors ,that paris hilton waste etc.Nobody has a right to be rich if others cannot survive inside civilization we all make happen together.

Do you even know what a social contract is? Why did we become civilized? I know it was not to let a few live in luxury as the many suffer. I think we came together to shelter each other from the brutality of nature.
Don't you even care that you are helping dismantle the social contract that helps us all live together without destroying one another?

[girl gone mad]

87. I'm sure you know what leverage is.

Top Hollywood actors have career leverage.

Gamblers usually don't.

[Lucky Luciano]

101. It is a little moer complicated than rolling the die.

I am sure someone with your background could at least assume it was more than that. We have career leverage too.

[Runcible Spoon]

68. you have a RIGHT to success?! what the fuck

you have a right to skim your millions off of a corrupt system that only exists by perpetuating bad credit debt on the backs of the people that actually WORK for their money? How fucking selfish. I can't believe you spent so much time during your education and never learned the grim reality of global neoliberal capitalism. You see numbers and trends, and I'm sure you're very good at manipulating flows and stoppages, but did it ever occur to you that what those numbers REALLY are are numerous extrapolations of exchanges, more and more abstracted from the actual point of production/sale/labor? And underneath your little market fantasies are the people working 80 hours a week in machiadoras in Honduras, or picking oranges for dollars a day in the US, or some blue collar underinsured shmuck having to take a mortgage out on his house to pay for his kid's cancer treatment, said cancer which was fucking CAUSED by industrial dumping?

GO FUCK YOURSELF.

[Lucky Luciano]

102. Yep, I have the right to success..and so do you if you so choose

I don't come from an especially privileged background and quite frankly, very few of the people I work with came from privileged - they were driven though.

You sound like you are of hte opinion that one can only be noble if they are in poverty or intentionally impoverish themselves. Quite frankly, however, a choice between struggling and not sturggling ain't no fucking choice at all (A little twist on a Reservoir Dogs quote). I chose not to struggle....although, I am still struggling a bit.

[Runcible Spoon]

124. bullshit. I have the education and intelligence to be fabulously wealthy if I chose.

I also pursued a PhD, and studied transnational economics. What I lack, however, is the narcissistic, cold-blooded psychopathic disregard for the suffering of the poor necessary to accumulate great amounts of wealth.

[girl gone mad]

85. Don't insult leeches.

They actually have a useful function.

I think tapeworm might be a more accurate analogy. The host does all of the work in foraging for food, but the worm works its way into the gut and sucks up the vital nutrients.

[undergroundpanther]

89. Yeppers

Time America drank a big ol' glass of QUININE water to expel these tapeworms!!

[undergroundpanther]

32. Heretic

He's fucking rich,do you see him sharing it? NO.
He I am sure has heard posts on DU about people trying to help each other and they can't because help is too expensive.

Hearing this guy brag just is vomitile.I don't care if he can't go to Chile or Patagonia. A small part of the cost of such a trip could enable someone to eat,be warm this winter, get a prescription for a sick kid, fix damaged teeth or get them to a doctor.

Do you realize how sickening the bragging part of the OP was.
I care about people over money markets or corporations.
Markets are just a big casino that looks complicated.The complicated crap is to make people feel like they CAN'T figure it out themselves. It is being mesmerized by the dust of the grand Wazoo.

Same old con happens with legalese or medical terminology. Exotic or obscure language for ordinary things and concepts serves to obscure the process from laypeople's understanding to justify privileges to 'professionals' because they do all this mysterious hoo hah with all this technical jargon they must be SOOO fucking Smarter than us.Fork them lots of undeserved cash.

That trick is CRAP..It's CRAP.. As long as markets are allowed to gamble and what he described here was a very complex way to gamble,and fortunetelling ,and this gambling system/ponzi creates classes and determines who has and who cannot have, it is economic abuse.When is 'normalized' injustice prevails,and sure he can give the math and technical lessons if he wants to..but this bragging to people who are suffering about how he isn't getting the best of things he is accustomed to ..THAT is REALLY tasteless.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. The OP Has Every Right To Hold That Sentiment. You Shouldn't Be So Bitter And Jealous.

[A HERETIC I AM]

49. Well, I guess we should just take him out back and beat the shit out of him, is that it?

He's fucking rich,do you see him sharing it? NO.

How do you know how charitable he is? For all you know he might be the most charitable person on this board. As far as him being "rich" is concerned, if he went out and got the education, learned what he needed to learn, found the job he wanted and enjoys what he does, why the fuck does it matter so much to you and all the other DU'rs who share your sentiment? Oh. Yeah. He makes good money doing it. Ah yes, the 'kiss of death' for a DU'r; Success. Better not have any or you're likely to be hated for it. I'm sure he's learned his lesson. If you make a good living and you post on this board, don't say so publicly. The community of DU would apparently prefer that all its members made no more than $12.00/hr.

He I am sure has heard posts on DU about people trying to help each other and they can't because help is too expensive.

Maybe. Or maybe he doesn't spend that much time reading this web site. Or maybe he is too busy taking expensive vacations. Or maybe he does give away half his paycheck, but just didn't include that in his post. You would prefer he gave away most of his paycheck, wouldn't you? For no other reason than he makes good money and he makes it in the Financial Industry, right?

Hearing this guy brag just is vomitile.I don't care if he can't go to Chile or Patagonia. A small part of the cost of such a trip could enable someone to eat,be warm this winter, get a prescription for a sick kid, fix damaged teeth or get them to a doctor.

Out of curiosity, do you express this same sentiment to every other DU'r that talks about an overseas vacation they are planning or have taken? If not, why not? OH...I know. Lucky was just upfront with all of us about how he makes a living. THAT'S what is stuck in your craw.

Markets are just a big casino that looks complicated.The complicated crap is to make people feel like they CAN'T figure it out themselves. It is being mesmerized by the dust of the grand Wazoo.

Then if you are clever enough to figure it out for yourself, you should stand to make a killing this year. You DO plan on giving most of your salary away, don't you?

Same old con happens with legalese or medical terminology. Exotic or obscure language for ordinary things and concepts serves to obscure the process from laypeople's understanding to justify privileges to 'professionals' because they do all this mysterious hoo hah with all this technical jargon they must be SOOO fucking Smarter than us.Fork them lots of undeserved cash.

I see. Yes, of course. Having a heart specialist speak to me like "The pump thingy in your chest area is acting silly, so we are gonna cut you open and have a chat with it for you" would make me MUCH more comfortable. I mean after all, that IS the reason they use technically accurate terminology, isn't it? To make themselves look and sound superior and to cloud the fact that I can do open heart surgery on myself. Lord knows the guy that put the pacemaker in my fathers chest that extended his life by 20 years was just a "con".

When is 'normalized' injustice prevails,and sure he can give the math and technical lessons if he wants to..but this bragging to people who are suffering about how he isn't getting the best of things he is accustomed to ..THAT is REALLY tasteless.

It is my experience on this board that if he had ended his post with "I hate my job, my boss is a crook, and I am not comfortable making this kind of money" then the ire directed at Lucky Luciano on this thread would be virtually zero.

I respect the hell out of the guy. He knows more about Options than anyone I have come across on this board and probably in real life, and I know people that have a Series 4 license. Much of what he talks about is WAAY over the heads of the average person, not to mention DU'r and much of it is way above my pay grade and I have studied this stuff. If I have a question about options I know Lucky can answer it for me. He is a valuable resource and, by the way, A DEMOCRAT. But none of that matters at all. He had the unmitigated GALL to provide a narrative of his experiences with regard to one of the most volatile and dangerous weeks in Wall Street history, and he made the mistake of alluding to his past and potential compensation. How DARE he be involved in such an industry? No self respecting liberal or progressive can POSSIBLY conscience making a living in the financial industry, right?

Would you be surprised to know that one of the most prolific posters on this board, and also one of the most (apparently) respected, is rich? I'm talking loaded. To the point of being able to live off of that pile of invested money. Does it bother you that there are millionaires that post on this board? Because there are. Plenty of them. But they rarely come right out and say it because....well...it's obvious why they don't. Does it bother you that there are people on DU who make in excess of 6 figure salary's? Posts like yours and the sentiment expressed in it is unfortunately all too common on this board. If you are a DU'r and you make a good living, you had better be quiet about it. If you dare to mention it, people will hate you for your success and they will cloak that hatred in the most cowardly way, by pointing out how horrible you are for not giving all your money away.

If it does bother you, get over it. You're beginning to whine.

Edited for clarity

[undergroundpanther]

52. No

But I don't see it.I don't see rich people that care about poor peoples lives unless it somehow benefits THEM.

You see I have no need to beat the guy up unless he thinks it's ok to let suffering people eat cake. Than I'll be pretty pissed.He might be generous but than again most likely he is not.Studies in charitable giving show rich people give the least. People do not have a right to excessive wealth while others starve That violates human decency it is inhumane and morally WRONG when the means of getting food is accessible and in a country that wastes as much as this one it's criminal.. If the rich want to be safe from poor people they'd better share if they don't share and they let the people suffer as they exploit them ,well they might end up on the guillotine.Wealth MUST be limited. If you want a FREE and PEACEFUL society.

Greed is NOT good.

[A HERETIC I AM]

54. Got ya.

Of course. Now I understand.

Because the Pew Charitable Trust, the Carnegie Endowment and every other similar organization (of which there are thousands) was set up solely to benefit the person or family that set it up in the first place.

I barely know him but I have had a few, minor and short conversations with him via PM. I'll venture that your entire knowledge of Lucky Luciano is from this thread. You are free to make all the assumptions you want about a fellow DU'r, but to assume to know about his proclivity for generosity based on what he wrote or what you think of all people in the same line of work is a serious stretch.

Lucky certainly does not need me to defend him, but I would feel the same way about you if you, through your own unique abilities, talent or education were able to become successful. But how you would spend your money is absolutely none of my damned business, likewise how the OP elects to conduct his own life.



"Wealth MUST be limited"

At what level? Do YOU get to decide? Are you of the opinion that no one should have any more than they absolutely need to survive because there are people starving somewhere? If so, would you concede ANY amount over that threshold? Ten dollars? A hundred? A thousand? If Lucky is able to accumulate $20,000,000 as he indicated he hoped to be able to, should he give every cent of it to charity? Can he keep any of it so that he can enjoy it in the fashion he chooses?

The acrimony on this board directed at people who are successful and make good money is astounding.

By the way, greed in large part allowed that computer you are typing away on to be affordable.

[undergroundpanther]

79. Ok you are an enemy to me

And I want NOTHING to do with YOUR KIND of "people".
Sickening.
BTW bring up that old bullshit about me typing on a computer you too assume alot too.I get sick of that lame argument donated computers happen and it is not because of GREED ..dumbass.
When this thing goes it is gone,I can let go of material things because they are JUST fucking THINGS.I came into this world broke if I go out broke so the fuck what.I care about other people as much as myself,I know pain and I try my best to alleviate it, in people who do not have the means to when I can..Good relationships is what matters to me and fuck the greedy scared of poverty people who call that foolish.

I share,because I am NOT greedy,and I am ethical and emotionally mature enough to see past my wants. I do what I can,because compassion is nobler than GREED every time.It is a survival value.Greed is NOT.Greedy people like using nature as examples to justify their greed.

Here's an analogy from nature.. What if a single wolf greedily takes the prey from the pack and hoards it to himself? That prey that the whole pack brought down together? That wolf is a dead wolf.

Sharing is a SURVIVAL VALUE.Greed is NOT.

Compassion does not require another person to suffer to enrich another who has enough .But I don't expect greedy people like you to comprehend that.At least as long as you can still suck poison milk from the teat of the market casino.
Greed is NOT GOOD.Maybe you will realize that one day,I sure hope so.I would be so ironic to see you begging food and to be snubbed by your greedier colleagues who still can believe greed is good as the empire of fraud falls around them...

[A HERETIC I AM]

97. Well, I suppose I'll scratch you off my Xmas card list then. Since you have me on ignore, you won't

see or hear me do this;
:spray: :spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ummm...that "donated computer" was able to be donated because it was CHEAP, and it was made inexpensive because of capitalism and greed.

Fine. I'm now your enemy. Ohh..what shall I do?

"Oh, Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

"Bloody peasant"

"Oh, what a give away. Did you hear that, did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me, you saw it didn't you?"

[Lucky Luciano]

103. Pretty funny! Haha

[Runcible Spoon]

71. I love how people kiss the asses of billionaire "philanthropists"

when modern day charity is nothing but a corrupt system of feel-good tax sheltering. It's sick.

[undergroundpanther]

80. Yep

It's disgusting.Greed never cares or gives without expecting returns on the investment.Greed knows no compassion or altruism because it's fucking GREED.Duh'oh. Greed is selfish always.
Greed is never good for a relationship or a society,in fact it destroys them.

Some greedy fools love the chains of stuff that bind them to never ending addictive acquisition and they will defend their oppressive masters and think they are so heretical.Fucking greed sheep. Ugh.The arrogant stupidity of the well off it's enough to gag a maggot..

[undergroundpanther]

31. I shed no tears for rich people

Need a match?

I think it is UN-TASTEFUL of the OP to BRAG about having MILLIONS and trips and how sad he might have to move to queens boo hoo..Dude there are people who can't afford lunch,yet get up and do LABOR.They can't wander around parks,they sit on a hot tar roof pounding nails.All day,everyday, no bonuses no health insurance and most likely their kids will never get MBA's.There are people with rotted broken teeth who cannot eat,and relatives can't afford to help because the dentists charge too much,Do you even COMPREHEND this?

Cry me a river, I don't care if your gambling casino collapses.It might be a good thing for you to live like the other over more than half lives.Go without lunch,sweat,come home aching. I'd like to live without the hounds of commerce and the pigs who make them nip the heels of the struggling for once..

[Lucky Luciano]

33. yawn....

I was not bragging...I only said what I wanted to accomplish...not what I have accomplished. I have very little right now as I just started out a couple years ago.

I am happy to help people too. Just can't do it now working 12 hours a day.

[davsand]

50. "I have very little right now as I just started out..."

With the large debt you described carrying when you got out of school I'd be shocked if you DID have too much this soon. That educational debt is a tough nut to crack for most folks.

I admire your ability to define what you want in life--your clarity, if you will. I suspect that many of us were never that focused nor will we ever be. I have to wonder, in fact, if part of the negative reactions you are getting in this thread are rooted in a sort of distrust of that clarity. I also suspect that there are people who have a huge discomfort with what you do to earn a living right now. (I don't call it your "chosen" work because it sounds kinda like an accidental thing based on what you describe...)

There are a LOT of people who have minimal understanding of the financial aspects of our world (myself included, if I'm being honest about it.) I was raised by depression era parents who pretty much followed a philosophy of don't buy it if you don't have cash in hand, SAVE every penny you can, and plan for the worst case scenario. I have a terrible time getting my head around the idea of making money off predicting a market decrease (sounds like some kinda financial scam to me!) and it just feels WRONG somehow. You live in a world that is so completely alien to me, it might as well be another planet!

Having SAID that, I will also say that I fully understand I am naive. Please know that some of the responses you are getting are maybe from other similarly naive and idealistic folks like me--OK?

I wish you well, and I hope you manifest all your dreams.



Laura

[undergroundpanther]

51. When is enough,enough for you?

Have you ever asked that question,just curious.

[Lucky Luciano]

57. $20MM would be enough...but less could be ok as well...

depends on how much I get tired of being in the office by 645am - I am actually one of the worst morning people in the world. I am nowhere NEAR my goal. I do like the stuff I do. There are some very interesting things that I enjoy. If it becomes less interesting, then I leave.

[undergroundpanther]

66. How about say...

$30,000 a year.I am being generous.

I could have said try minimum wage,disability payments, or the wage of chinese slaves eating melamine laced dinners at the company compound ..that some corporations in your trading stocks get thier goods from.

$30,000 that's it.
Could you handle it?
You'd have to be a bit more MODEST.Might have to give up some stuff,and actually*gasp* downsize your lifestyle.
And maybe you'd have to live closer to those other people in those other "icky" neighborhoods..With people that make less than you to make ends meet.
Could you handle it? BTW I live on ALOT less than 30,000.

If things go to shit and they have been going to shit since before Reagan,and the shit blows..can you bear to go to a food bank?
How much humility to those piggies can you suffer without feeling you are entitled to more than others around you who struggle as hard or harder than you do for less?.

If we had to go back to bartering you know that MBA would be worthless if you have no real skills to offer anyone in exchange, like building or smelting metal or tanning hides or hunting.

Or would you just jump out of a window before you'd ever be so poor as to live hand to mouth like most of us do.

Curious as to what you would do..

[Lucky Luciano]

69. I could probably be a math teacher

I am not an MBA. I am a mathemetician. MBAs are worthless.

Three years ago I made $25K a year. I also made that amount or less for the previous 8 years (Though I did ok playing poker. I was pretty good). I lived beyond my means, but believed in myself.

Confidence goes a very long way. No joke.

[undergroundpanther]

82. CON fidence

Playing poker Hahaha..I remember having a similar argument with you about greed being good while ago.

Ahh the truth comes out..you admitted that on $25,000 bucks a year..you cannot live within your means!! On 25,000 you got yourself in the hole and you have a math degree. OMG.

This is hilarious.And you played POKER to get out of the hole??You think your confident personality will cover for all your stupidity and addiction to risks huh? Well the luster of the bully fades as soon as the mask is ripped off.And You came to the right cat to do just that!!

I think you are a gambling addict.I really think you are delusional about your confidence.. Maybe even a bit sociopath. Not bad enough to be a serial killer but more high functioning and more financially malignant and hypocritical about it.Just like most wall street pigs ARE. You illustrate the inherent sociopath nature of the marketplace in your point of view so well.

You even have a little lackey here to defend your image for you here. How pathetic.BTW he's on ignore.I don't waste time with your subordinate fans.. I like to talk directly to those who make the mess, the CON fidence man itself.

I live on SSI which is well below the poverty line.I have a GED. I never had a credit card in my life,I don't want one, it's a trap and a scam.I Make my ends meet.Sometimes the last few days f the month food is scarce,but I am free of debt...I don't have wealth,my body is fucked up,I got issues but I got time to think to question,.and if SSI is cut I can survive another way because I know what survival values are and greed is not one of them..I don't like dealing with over confident people and bullies I tend to want to throttle them.So I keep myself out of the workplace for that reason also.

.So,tell me,how come with a MATH degree YOU can't manage your own budget on $25.000? Maybe because your CON fidence is blinding you to your own INCOMPETENCE!(ambition does not cover up incompetence it just enables you to hide it from yourself and your fans.)!Maybe you are too greedy to limit yourself within your means you had at that time.hmmm? me thinks it is possible.So you went to gamble.That's a hard job.BET your way to wealth ,HAHA! OMG Sounds like a bad Infomercial on TV at 4 am..You know the cards could have easily screwed you.Fortune is blind.And apparently people in the stock market are as blind to their betting addiction as you seem to be.

That greed and not living within means and CON fidence shit is the problem with wall street RIGHT NOW.They also refuse to live within their means so they just wheedle a scam to suck away others money like black holes to keep up that fucking wasteful and pampered "lifestyle" they cannot seem to stop doing because they are fucking addicts to gambling and such..This is because They are greedy selfish,oblivious parasites looking for a quick buck for nothing .And when parasites make a host too sick the host dies or the parasites are expelled.

The parasites on wall street are trying their damnedest to kill the host while pretending they are not doing just that...I want them expelled along with the shit they made.And if your life changes drastically, a future of having less might be good for you,however it would be wise to learn to live within in your means really soon,as poverty can teach people like you alot if you have the courage to learn..Maybe you can put that math degree into real life use instead of this fantasy and virtual betting shit.You are as noble as a fucking gangster.Hence you name says it all.The world would be fine without your kind,and I think you know this already..


Poverty sits by the cradle of all our great men and rocks all of them to manhood. ~Heinrich Heine


We have grown literally afraid to be poor. We despise anyone who elects to be poor in order to simplify and save his inner life. If he does not join the general scramble and pant with the money-making street, we deem him spiritless and lacking in ambition. ~William James

[Lucky Luciano]

105. I see you have some issues...

First poker is a game of skill. Good risk management and the art of negotiation are what the game is all about. I definitely see a lot of parallels between negotiating and playing a proper hand of poker. It is also a long run game, so do not do anything stupid in the short run as the best player can always lose to the biggest nitwit on any given hand.

25K was not enough, but I knew I would be successful. I am too driven. I don't see why you think I am a bully...only you and a few of your sidekicks have exhibited the characteristics of a bully. I have merely spread information. Think about people who go to law school. When I was in grad school many of my good friends were first and second year lawyers. They came out of law school with 125K in debt, but they knew they would pay it off with their jobs afterwards. It is how one pays for law school. So, in some sense, perhaps it is dishonest to say that I was really living on 25K because I was a sure bet to make more. If I was making 25K and had no hope of ever making much more, then yes, I would agree with you. That is fucking stupid.

I will also say this. I do not like to gamble. I only like to place bets where I have an edge. Like the house in Vegas - they have an edge (I never play any of their games because I cannot get an edge - waste of fucking time). If I played any of the Vegas games you could call me an idiot gambler, but I have no interest in those games - except for blackjack. I have an edge in that game because cardcounting works...but poker is more entertaining and just as profitable, if not more so.

You are really just a hater.

[undergroundpanther]

120. At least I am honest about my issues

You are so fucked up you try to tell everyone your character flaws and issues are assets .Sorry dude youare talking like an addict.And you are greedy, your entitlement fantasies make you look damn narcissistic.The kind of leech I would never want to associate myself with.
Oh and yes I do hate leeches and narcissists.Get over it.
Buh,Bye.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. The OP Wasn't Bragging. You're Letting Your Bitterness And Jealousy Affect Your Judgment.

The OP doesn't deserve your attack in any way shape or form. You look bad, not him.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Awwwwwww, Boo Hoo Hooooooo. Bitter Much? Jealous Much?

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!

People like you crack me up!!!!!

[Parker CA]

90. Seriously. The first couple posts were okay, but this person is making a fool of themselves.

Your disdain for success and personal choice is extremely contradictory to everything you're spouting off in pure anger to the OP. Really, take a deep breath, go for a walk, block this post. This cannot be good for your blood pressure. You're self destructing in front of all of us.

Respect is a two way street.

[HamdenRice]

17. Did you used to hang out/drink/do math equations at the bar, at La Linea

on First Ave near Houston? Because I knew a guy so much like you. Will comment more substantively later.

[Lucky Luciano]

43. Not me...on occassion, I would go to

Esperanto near NYU on McDougal, but not lately. I am too banged up from the M-F work that I got nothing in me on the weekends. Especially with the summer being so nice. During the winter and crappy weather days i get better weekend work done. This will be good as I sense the big boss is pissed that I have not done much work over the weekend for the last couple months.

[entanglement]

18. So algebraic geometers end up as Wall Street traders these days?

Who would've thought of that? :)

Anyhow, thank you for an interesting essay.

[Lucky Luciano]

42. So, you must be a math geek too

to pick up the algebraic geometry in there! Yes, I was an algebraic geometer with a great advisor. I had too much debt to be a post-doc/professor and I had only one way out...besides, I liked playing poker at Commerce in LA and knew I would like trading.

It was a very hard sell to to get a job as a trader with Algebraic Geometry degree...they want to see applied math and stats - not the arcane crap I used to do! It made it very hard for me to get a job. I just kept plugging away for a long time learning what I needed to learn after graduating before I could get a single interview...then it took longer to get the actual damn job. Such a pain in the ass. Worth it in the end though even if it is stressful right now.

[Odin2005]

21. Great and highly informative post!

It's always good to have someone in the thick of things giving us an inside perspective on the action! :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. My head hurts after going through all those technicals

they don't look good

:-)

[Ellipsis]

30. What a post! Thanks all the way around.

Bookmarked

[earth mom]

44. This is the exact mentality that makes 90% of people of this country NOT want to bail out Wall St

"I want to have $20MM in cash and a nice house/apartment in 10-12 years" meanwhile while the shit hits the fan totally and completely here, "In December I will explore the glaciers of Patagonia in Argentina and Chile" :wtf:


WTF man! Are you FUCKING SERIOUS?! Do you realize what your greed has cost the rest of us?! Jeezus fucking H!


Unbelievable to see the totality of the greed in this country and those who are fucking PROUD of it! :puke:



And people here on DU wonder why the majority of us are saying NOT ONE FUCKING DIME TO THESE ASSHOLES?!!!

Hell, even the OP said the bailout means we are not out of the woods. Un-fucking-real.

[LBJDemocrat]

45. Seconded

Loathsome. Really loathsome.

[Lucky Luciano]

47. Oh please..

You sepak as if I am some senior guy...I am not. I am at the bottom.

I had nothing to do with the assholes who fucked up. They would get lynched if they came on the trading floor by employees who have seen their stock go down in value.

Bailout means the system does not go completely bust...but we will still have hard times. Japan 1990s was not pleasant for example. After Sweden's bailout 17 years ago, they still had a few tough years before recovering.

Bailout does not mean we're back to happy days again immediately.

[earth mom]

48. I'm angry because you obviously don't get it.

You're ready for more of the same instead of acknowledging that the system is broken.

You work hard for your money, well so do I and so does the rest of America.

Why are we expected to pay out our future hard earned dollars so you and others like you can continue to gamble wildly in order to achieve your $20MM nest egg and exotic vacations?

I would rather give that money to a worthy cause that will actually help the majority of the people of this country.

See my thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4110328&mesg_id=4110328

[undergroundpanther]

67. privlege and being fortunate

BLINDS PEOPLE. Blinds them to the suffering all around them until they find themselves begging for help.
I too have no pity for the OP. Zip Nada he's a greedy self absorbed oblivious fortunate one.I'm sick of them, fucking parasites.

[earth mom]

76. Yep and it looks and sounds like the majority of this country is sick of them too.

Enough is enough.

[LBJDemocrat]

46. Get over yourself. nt

[Lucky Luciano]

58. k

To be honest, this post is indirectly my parent's influence. THey were both teachers in NYC high schools, so I tend to like explaining things to people. Hence my long winded pontification. Some are interested and some aren't.

That said, my mother (father is gone) does not really approve of trading either. She would much prefer I take a professor role. She is extremely to the left and wishes Wall St would be shut down and all the workers there be put to work in medicine, cheap renewable energy, etc.

[Joanne98]

53. My son is a forex trader. I feel your pain. kick

[Eyerish]

59. What my problem with this is....

"I had been lazy much of my life. In fact I went to grad school for mathematics and completed a PhD at UCLA because it meant that I could spend time never getting up early (read: get up at noon)"

"Hopefully, when this mess is over, I can go back to collecting good bonuses - the kinds that grow exponentially from year to year during hte profitable times. I want to have $20MM in cash and a nice house/apartment in 10-12 years. I make no apologies for that. I like what I do, but would quit so I do not have to get up super early and do it every freaking day."



As someone who is new to this board I am surprised by how many people are defending & praising this, "Work little for big rewards" mentality. I have no problem with someone who works HARD to earn their money but by his own admission he is lazy and wants to be rewarded for it. What happened to the American work ethic?? What happened to being rewarded on the merits of your actions? This country was created by hard-working citizens who would be appalled at how far this country has fallen into the crapper. People seem to care more about what they have instead of what they can do for others. These past 8 years are the culmination of the greed and vacuousness that has infested our country and our world.


This type of twisted logic is Bush's legacy. Bush made lots of money by working little, are we going to applaud him too??


Oh and OPERATIONMINDCRIME, what new and interesting way are you going to call me "bitter and jealous"??

[Lucky Luciano]

61. I bust my ass now

At the office at 6:45am and I leave at 7:00pm...sometimes I have to meet people for dinner afterwards (for work) and I get home at 10pm or 11pm. I definitely work now.

[Eyerish]

88. So...

are you going to tell me that an office job where you get to sit in your office/cubicle, answer phones, write e-mails, go to meetings, have work dinners (which i'm sure is used as a tax ride-off) really justifies receiving a 200k bonus?? I could think of quite a few more honorable professions where any type of bonus would be gladly appreciated. Nurses, teachers, firefighters, policemen, soldiers all do a lot more for our country and get nothing in return. Sometimes they are required to procure their own supplies: School supplies for teachers & body armor for soldiers. Where is their "right to succeed"??

The BIG problem is that our priorities have shifted. The idea of being rewarded by what you actually do is gone. When we live in a country where the people who help to keep our infrastructure working aren't given any breaks and the people who work for the companies that break us down do, that should be a sign things are going in the wrong direction.

It seems all you want is for the greed to continue you so that you can profit off of the backs of others who really do something worthwhile.

[Lucky Luciano]

106. If you generate $2MM in net PnL for whomever you work for,

then yes...a 10% cut is completely justifiable.

If teachers, policemen, firemen, etc were the ones to get these bonuses, then guess who would become theteachers, policemen, and firemen...I think you catch my drift...

[Eyerish]

112. I'm not saying...

that anyone should be getting bonuses, yet alone 10%. But if they did, at least the people in those positions would be working hard and doing something for the betterment of our society. Also, I don't think anyone needs to be in poverty to be "noble" but I do think humility is a trait sorely lacking in our country. If people took a step back and realized what they really needed out of life, I think this world would be a better place.

I don't live beyond my means, I save where I can and here's the most important thing, I ENJOY my life. You don't need a 200k+ Salary to live a great and fulfilled life. I've traveled all over the world too, but I've never felt the need to be a braggard about it. For some, travel is about learning new cultures and realizing the big picture of our planet. For others, it's something they can brag about to co-workers and have them say, "Wow, I wish I could do that." Just a way to make one feel like they are better than others. Yes, financial security is a wonderful thing, but if I had to sell my soul to achieve it, I'd rather live in a box.

[LBJDemocrat]

62. You're forgetting.

This guy is a Democrat. He's cool. Plus, he's near the bottom of his corporation's hierarchy. He's one of us.

:sarcasm:

[undergroundpanther]

93. Lets see...lerts reveiw this list..

He cannot live within his means on 25,000 a year.

He is admittedly lazy,he doesn't like to get up early,he doesn't like to work too hard,he likes getting big bonuses for doing very little work,wants the ?mess over" so he can get more..and more.

He he wanders around a park until his boss calls him to come in early and he whines to us about it,to US..

He thinks greed is good.

He likes traveling and is oblivious to how much his lifestyle costs others,and he plays poker to get out of debt.

He thinks he has a right to success,and thinks being over-confident will cover him for his stupid mistakes and addiction to risks..

And he likes gambling ALOT..

And he thinks having millions is entitled to him he calls it being"confident".

He fancies himself precious or something.

And he's as noble as a gangster he calls himself lucky luciano.
What does this look like to you?

The under-achieving narcissist dodges challenges, eludes tests, shirks competition, sidesteps expectations, ducks responsibilities, evades authority - because he is afraid to fail and because doing something everyone else does endangers his sense of uniqueness. Hence the narcissist's apparent 'laziness" and "parasitism". His sense of entitlement - with no commensurate accomplishments or investment - aggravates his milieu. People tend to regard such narcissists as "spoiled brats".

In specious contrast, the over-achieving narcissist seeks challenges and risks, provokes competition, embellishes expectations, aggressively bids for responsibilities and authority and seems to be possessed with an eerie self-confidence. People tend to regard such specimen as "entrepreneurial", "daring", "visionary", or "tyrannical". Yet, these narcissists too are mortified by potential failure, driven by a strong conviction of entitlement, and strive to be unique and be perceived as such.

http://samvak.tripod.com/grandiositygap.html


The posts he puts up that describe his lifestyle and personality illustrate in a nutshell is EXACTLY what is wrong with this fucking country.It is being destroyed by narcissistic oblivious gangster tapeworms in human suits that are gambling addicts.

[Lucky Luciano]

107. ...

ok - boss calling me while on a hike...was not whining about it...just part of the story. As lazy as I am, when my game is on, it is absolutely on...I love achallenge and will take them on hard - so maybe to you I am actually an overachieving narcissist...I am hypercompetitive, but do not like to do anything that lacks adrenaline....I am an adrenaline junky true. I am not a gambler though...gamblers do not require edge. I require an edge...or a loaded die if you will...hence my sig line.

[AlCzervik]

64. you must go through a lot of Maaloxx and aspirin. I hope the turn around becomes

a reality.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[I Have A Dream]

73. I'm a programmer so I'm used to details, but I can't even...

imagine dealing with this stuff every day!

:crazy:

[Lucky Luciano]

74. I did some programming too...

What a Pain in the ass! A lot of it is intellectually fascinating, but screwing around looking for some dangling pointer someone else waws responsible for that is breaking your program in some random location that is different each time the program runs (rendering debugging software much less useful, but not useless) caused me to lose my patience. I am more into the adrenaline side of things.

That said, the computer science is very cool. I like a lot of the clever structures that can be used to make elegant solutions to problems.

[Runcible Spoon]

75. I live in Argentina, stay the FUCK out of Patagonia

I hope you fall off a fucking glacier.

[Parker CA]

91. Seriously VILE post. How dare you seriously and openly threaten injury on someone??!!

Pathetic. Truly.

[Runcible Spoon]

122. LOL there is a world of difference between hoping and threatening

I wish things would happen because I hope for them to happen...and the OP would live the rest of his life penniless and castrated :rofl:
Offending you gives me pleasure

[girl gone mad]

92. Were you living in Argentina during the currency devaluation?

I'm just wondering if you could share any insight into what we might expect in the U.S. if this crisis and bailout result in a similar series of events.

[Runcible Spoon]

123. well Argentina said FUCK YOU to the IMF...

that was a pretty good start. Couple that with strong trade protectionism, regulated markets, and emphasis on domestic production, and we are finally recovering from the dalliances of Chicago Boys in Latin America: Argentina.

I wasn't here but my fiance is native and his family saw their entire savings disappear overnight. What I love about this country is the people get out into the streets and march on the Casa Rosada. The government fears the people, as it ought to in a democracy.

Considering that this 700B bailout is more than the entire annual GDP of Argentina, I can't even begin to make analogies over what the US is going to see.

[Lucky Luciano]

108. See you in a couple months buddy!

[Hawkowl]

77. Very insightful post

I used to do online trading of options, stocks etc. Made quite a bit of money out of nothing. And lost a lot. Technically, your narrative is right on. You also have a pretty good way with words, especially for someone with an advanced degree in mathematics. A rarity indeed. Hopefully, you are keeping a journal which you may turn into a book. There are many ways to make a fortune you know.

As to those of you threatening and insulting this person you are missing the boat. He is literally a peon. A trader living on a knife's edge. He is young and had to pay back a $90K loan. People shouldn't have to pay that much for a college education. It is a scam like indentured servitude which locks a person into a frenzy of work and greed just to get out from under.

The way to remedy this behavior-society's behavior-- is to tax the shit out of the upper levels of income. Re-instate the tax brackets from the '60's with there 90% marginal tax rates AND make corporations pay income taxes as well. Back before fascist Reagan, corporations paid 2/3's of all taxes.

Then we can get back to funding, education and health care and the environment. Endeavors that will always have incalculable benefits to society. Imagine if a truly gifted person could get his Ph.D. in mathematics for virtually nothing? What would that person choose to do with it? What might they be able to contribute to the world, rather than imitating a hamster on a wheel?

Lucky, what would you choose to do if money were no object? What do you really want to do? You may find that you would be happier with doing what you really want to do and making less money.

Good luck and keep up the technical posts.

[SmokingJacket]

86. TAXES -- yes!

You are right.

[Lucky Luciano]

110. If money were no object, what would I do...

I would love to be a wildlife photographer for National Geographic...first I would need to learn photography.. I love animals and love being in remote corners of the world viewing what so few have seen. I enjoyed Africa immensely. I could live there as a park ranger on a private game reserve or in a national park.

[Hawkowl]

118. Good for you!

If that is what is really going to make you happy, then work towards funding that goal. Working just for an abstract number like $20 Million is a trap. I mean a trap in every sense of the word. Your focus will become myopic and you will miss out on a lot. Worse, you may find it may take you a long time to achieve the arbitrary goal and yet not achieve happiness.

My unsolicited advice, is to set your goal as happiness, not an arbitrary dollar figure. Think, watch, and model yourself on happy people, not necessarily what your environment and micro-society is telling you is successful. I personally know people who own their own jets, $75,000 MONTHLY household budgets, etc. They are not happy. Don't get me wrong--a moderate amount of wealth does make achieving happiness easier. You just have to know when to leave the table. Know when you've won, so that you can walk away a winner.

[undergroundpanther]

121. If money were no object..

I would destroy poverty.I would create ASSHOLE FREE ZONES.I'd Give everyone a good education,feed everyone,house everyone,make sure everyone had healthcare.I'd find a way to solve the climate and fuel crisis,build havens for decent people to keep them away from abusers and bullies,I would educate people about the personality flaws and dangers of abusive relationships, leeches and other scum so they won't be conned,or hurt.I would open up places for women and men who are abused to escape abusive fuck heads.I would hire snipers to kill off the rapists in Darfur.I would hire people to get people freed from sexual slavery and other forms of slavery and either arrest the slave traffickers or kill them off.. I'd try to to find a foolproof way to distinguish sociopaths from the population so they can be contained and maybe find a way to render them harmless to others..
I would make sure no con man ever got rewarded for nothing.And I would find a way to wean people off the need they think they have for leaders and markets.And I would educate people so they will never believe conservative crap as truth again.And I would fight for equality.And there are many more things I'd like to do.

[TxBlue]

114. Good post - Answer is to tax Top Upper Tier and Big Corps

[LiberalAndProud]

78. Bookmarked.

[girl gone mad]

81. Do you regret not doing something more useful..

with your education?

[Not the Only One]

84. He's rich, bitch! [/Dave Chappelle]

You read his post. He loves being able to buy and sell people like you. His regret is that he didn't start on this path sooner.

[girl gone mad]

95. I had to ask.

I have an MS in Physics/Astronomy.

There were many people in my undergraduate and graduate classes who dreamed of continuing their education, but simply couldn't afford to. Most were brilliant and dedicated students who dreamed of developing the next breakthrough in nanotechnology or working in the medical field. None had dollar signs in their eyes.

[Lucky Luciano]

111. not really...

nobody cares about advanced math unless I surround myself with other math people. I wanted to experience life well outside those boundaries. The stuff I did was so abstract and obtuse that I could not explain it at all to even the most intelligent layperson because of all the background information required. I hated to have to lock myself away from people and bang my head against a wall trying to solve these problems. It takes a lot out of you mentally to have to works for years trying to solve a problem. When you do solve the problems though, it does cause a huge adrenaline rush....but i needed more...I was not willing to make the oath of poverty for math...and going deep into that introspective world gets you lost sometimes...when I was in my deepest thoughts i was less in tune with others. I like to be very social and math was not compatible with that.

[lelgt60]

94. For those who think trading is not an honorable profession...

How old do you think this profession is? Do you think it was born of an electronic stock market? Do you think people who run a used furniture store aren't in an honorable profession? They takes risks by buying furniture and hoping to sell it for more, later. They also risk the rent for the space, their time, etc.

I guess my belief is that traders, in aggregate, in a reasonably regulated market, provide liquidity and trade risk in exchange for the possibility of making money. Imagine being able to buy or sell a house in 1 sec on a house exchange. Imagine the value of your house was known to the penny at virtually all times. Traders provide lubrication for the market and enable people who want to sell to sell now, even if there is no "non-trader" willing to buy right at this moment.

My belief is that the problem with the current market is the current rules. That's not the fault of all the participants - just the very rich few who have paid off the government to slant the rules in their favor.

[undergroundpanther]

96. Why did the traders go along with the rule changes?

They could have rose up and did something to stop it..But they DIDN'T,do a damn thing they didn't speak out,they didn't strike,they didn't do shit to stop it.They were little Eichmann's.

They went along with it FOR a piece of THE MONEY that changing the rules would grant them and for the ego trip,and the gambling addictions they have..


Geez.

[lelgt60]

98. So everyone who doesn't walk away from their profession if it isn't perfect are little Eichmanns?

What about actors smoking cigarettes, or for that matter any actor who is in a for profit movie that doesn't meet your political requirements?

What about highly paid sports figures.

What about journalists who don't line up with you politically.

I can imagine the number of people who you don't know and condemn so easily in the nastiest of terms must number in the millions.

I guess you're fucking perfect.

Geez.

[undergroundpanther]

119. If at least you don't SPEAK UP and say SOMETHING

When you know something is corrupt or wrong,and you stay silent you ARE being a little eichmann.and complicit.I'm not saying abandon your job I'm saying open your mouth and speak if you see fraud going on.Don't just ignore it or deny,Have some fucking integrity if you want to be respect for having integrity walk your damn talk.

[lelgt60]

126. No problem with that, but as far as traders in general were concerned...

There were very few in number actually trading these exotic derivatives. Most are just stock or bond traders. Most would have no knowledge of mortgage derivatives (maybe a few of the bond traders). Also, some of the concepts of mortgage derivatives are very good in theory. Bundling up a bunch of mortgages to spread the risk of default allowed many more people to become homeowners that if that had not been done. But, greed, elimination of proper regulations, lack of oversight, etc., brought us to this unintended outcome.

But for the ones who knew and understood it to be bad - absolutely they should have yelled and screamed - and they would definitely have some responsibility for what's happened if they didn't - especially since they made money - definitely complicit. On the other hand, I don't know that there weren't those who spoke up - so I just can't make sweeping generalizations about them all.

But the point of my original post was that there was a perception that trading as a profession inherently provided no value to society. I believe it provides great value to many ordinary people who are not traders, and has for thousands of years. Are there "bad" traders - of course - just like bad doctors, lawyers, social workers, etc.

Sorry for yelling at you - eichmann is kind of a trigger word for me - I actually lost some family there.

[Eyerish]

99. Yes...

I don't think trading is an honorable profession. Do they build bridges?? Do they take care of the sick and elderly?? Do they protect you from crime?? No, they help to promote greed that has led us into this financial problem. They might not be the one's who are profiting the most from this debacle, but their hands sure aren't clean.

[lelgt60]

127. I don't think things are that simplistic...

You're right. Traders don't build bridges or take care of the sick and elderly or protect you from crime.

As I said, you have to think of them as lubricant - they don't provide the muscle, but they allow the muscle to work.

It's a complex ecosystem. If you eliminated traders (and I'm talking about all types - not just wall street traders), I think you would find that things kind of grind to a halt.

Now I'm not saying that traders become traders because they understand their benefit to society and they just want to do "good". But, that could probably be said of most people in most professions.

[BlooInBloo]

104. hahah! Sometimes I miss those bloomberg screens. But not often.

[AllieB]

113. Thank you for sharing.

I know it opened you up to a lot of hostility from people.

[PerfectSage]

115. Thanks for the interesting post.

The next 4 year cycle low is due in 2010. Probably Oct/2010. That's probably when this bear market will end.

[TxBlue]

116. Thanks LL and Scoll On By to some of you

LL
Interesting post. Thanks. One thing is follow your soul and your inner dreams. Don't get too sidetracked before you get too much older.

It's admirable that you're working to payoff loans and such.

I've done a few things in financial realm w/mba/finance but now all of our risks on main street. Supremely happy but need economy to be ok. Feel things will get much, much better with Obama at helm.

Personally, I couldn't live in nyc... did for awhile and felt too penned in. Other parts of country you don't have to make so much money and standard of living is much higher...something to think about.

I'm ashamed for some du'ers attitude...really quite rude...not at all inclusive which I thought was what dem's were supposed to be about. Y'all need to just S.O.B. instead of showing us the depth of the dark, black shadows of your hearts. LL is working and so what if he's "lazy". He's honest about and I suspect he's young and a bit artistic. Sounds like he manages to get where he has to work related for sometimes insane a.m. hours. So think about apologizing. Just a thought.

Geez! Some posters remind me of uncharitable responses' of McCain...

[Eyerish]

125. LOL...I'm not apologizing...

for my thoughts...and how dare you chide any of us like little children because we might have a dissenting opinion! When did being members of the same political party mean that we have to agree on every single thing? If that were the case we'd be just like the other party. I'm glad we can all have differing opinions but still come to the right conclusion about who needs to lead our country.

Also, just when does lazy equal artistic?!? Personally, I'm offended by your statement. I'm an artist myself and using a stereotype about artists as being lazy is just as close-minded as what you attack me and others for. Some of my closest friends work just as long as this guy does during the day, but they are blowing glass and making furniture. I'd like to see you call them "lazy".


Don't be ashamed for me, I haven't done anything wrong. Just a thought.



PS- has anyone else noticed that the majority of people who feel the need to defend or support this guy all seem to have some sort to background in finance or have previously worked in that industry? He's been able to defend himself just fine, he doesn't need cheerleaders.

[FreakinDJ]

117. Great Post - wish could elaborate a little more

This part

The US Government Sovereign Debt even has a CDS. Someone showed me a bid of 22 bps! HOLY SHIT! So, my bank two years ago was a better credit than the US Fucking Goverment is today. That is bad news. Very fucking bad news. Of course, selling USA Sovereign CDS is a lot like selling asteroid insurance. If the US defaults, then all banks are out of business and all central banks are crushed...to the barter system we go! I hope we all like being cavemen!