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We've all been given another warning. Now we must choose..Unsustainability or an Unwinding?

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 01:53 PM
Original message
We've all been given another warning. Now we must choose..Unsustainability or an Unwinding?
Edited on Sat Sep-27-08 02:20 PM by SoCalDem
This whole Wall Street Debacle is just another "clue" to us all.
The warp-speed of our lives is at the heart of the "problem". We have been cultivated to believe that we must always GROW, always crave MORE, BIGGER, BETTER, SHINIER...at any cost.

America has believed its own press for far too long. Our "experts" make up statistics all the time. We are told routinely that we are the most generous, the smartest, the most prosperous, the healthiest, and yet none of that is true.

Most Americans live with TWO truths....the truth they see every day where they live and the "truth" they see & hear on TV.

We have always been "major-urban" and "rural-small town" and although small town people now have access to more than they used to, their mindset has not changed all that much since the 40s & 50s.. They are the LAST to see much real progress, and the first to experience a serious downturn in the economy, since they live on the fringe...

"Government" has a vested interest in growth at any cost. The "bigger" things get, the more complicated they get, and the greater the need for more legislation and more government hiring to oversee that growth (even though very little real oversight happens).

Bigger companies mean higher paid and more lobbyists are available to donate MORE money to campaigns.

Workers during the Industrial Revolution were told that machines would lighten their workload, and give them more leisure time...It did..The problem was that leisure time turned out to be unemployment, since fewer workers were needed once machines took over many of the more mundane tasks.

In the 20' s& 30s, workers were told that the automobile would provide them with an easier life, and give them mobility. It did, but it also created whole new industries that fouled the air they breathed, and put a whole lot of people on the move to areas that were fragile and not all that hospitable to the farming that followed.. Over-farming, led to the Dust Bowl and the demise of many of them.

In the 50's & 60's we were told that computers would some day make our lives and jobs easier. I dearly love my computer, but truthfully, once many jobs were switched from pencil-on-paper or people face-to-face, it made it quite easy to find someone across the world, who would work for a lot less, to do those jobs.

Every "advancement" has come with its own "destruct" button built into it.

Malls and discount centers were wondrous to people when they first showed up, but those "big-boxes" and the stores held within them, were owned by people elsewhere, and all the money poured into them, did not stay in the community where it was spent.

The local businesses that had once managed to satisfy all the needs and wants of the community, were suddenly no longer "good enough", and many people went from being proprietor of their own business, to hourly-paid sales clerk.

Advertising has groomed us to want more and more and enough is never REALLY enough. Big business has to grow bigger and bigger, so we must continue to buy and buy and buy some more...even if we cannot afford it...and more and more of us can no longer afford to keep buying.

We have houses, FULL to the brim with "stuff" and the only solution to that is to buy even BIGGER houses, so we can buy more stuff. The bigger the house, the bigger the payment, so many people are paying thousands every month so their dog & cat have a great place to lounge in all day, as they sit stuck in traffic and huddled in a cubicle at work..and their kids grow up in daycare with strangers, or wear keys around their necks so they can hang out with the dog and cat for 3-4 hours until tired-Mom and tired-Dad show up with KFC or pizza, sometime around 7PM.

Most of us no longer even know HOW to live simply. Our lives , and expenses have spun out of control . We have "stuff" that we can no longer repair or service ourselves (even if we wanted to or had the time to). Things we watch, listen to, or use to call each other, often come with complicated long-term contracts, and we are always searching for better "deals" and more sophisticated "features", even though most of us either work too much to have time to really use them much, or we end up unemployed and unable to even afford them.

The bind we find ourselves in, is this.. We have allowed ourselves to be taken in, and while we were "sleeping", the rest of the world has caught up with us, and in many cases, passed us up entirely.

When we left "Main Street" in the dust, we gave the corporations permission to leave US in the dust too, if the price was right.

We allowed our labor to be diminished in value, to the point that now our economy is 70% "service".. This only works as long as enough of us have the "extra" money for all that "servicing".

In less than 40 years, we went from being the breadbasket of the world, and the major supplier of "things" to the world...to an importer of food (costly to us and the environment, in many ways), and importer of things we used to make here, but no longer do.

A relative few have gotten incredibly rich from this whole change-over, but millions more have gotten poorer and sicker from it. The people we hire to look out for our well-being, have sold out to their corporate-funders, and while they have free rein to speculate and enrich themselves, the taxpayers are always called upon to "repair" their damage they do to the economy every 20 years or so. This is all done while we , the people, are told to stand alone, be resposnsible, look out for ourselves, plot our own journey, be resourceful, be entrepreneurial, take responsibility for our own actions.

It may be too late to unwind now, and I truly fear for the younger ones among us. The unwinding will come..it always does, and I probably will be gone when it happens, but I'm not sure that our country will survive in a fashion we would recognize when it's all done..

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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Beautiful and sad truth
I keep trying to vision it "better" and the self destruct path itseems to be on. Money is only a mirror for the environment and evrything else that is crumbling from the old paradigms now...

The entire way we function from the micro to themacro is shifting, and I hope we can do it in a peaceful and intelligent way. Notice that Obama and Biden kep saying how smart we all are...it is like a large scale affirmation, they are caling in the power of intelligence over destruction to assist us in going through this change.

There is no doubt that ALL that we assigned worth in the past 50+ years is now crumbling before our eyes. WE get to revmp and rework and re value all we hold dear. Eachother, our communities, our nations, and how we all exchange ideas, goods, etc...

Unwinding or unraveling doesn't have to be such a bad thing. We get to choose how easily this will turn out, and we can choose a different road.

thanks for this post!
Rec!
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If only "we" got to choose.
Alas, the choice is not ours and we will be subjected to servitude in "their" system.



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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I am an idealist
Individal choices in preception of events is still important, no mater what it may look like ... I still have the power to find the glass half-full
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. We each do what we can.. and we hope it's enough
That's all we can do.. I really feel for the younger folks, though:(
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. i remember when we were thrilled to get "fruits in season"
from local growers here in northern illinois. asparagus from chile? there used to be hundreds of acres of asparagus in northern illinois......

my local thrift shop is a museum of all the things we used to make in the usa.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. It was well worth the wait to get watermelon in July or cherries in June
or fresh Washington apples in September.. we'd gorge ourselves and then wait for next year.. Somehow, Thimpson grapes from Chile at $3.99 a pound all year long is not that appealing to me.. I rarely buy grapes anymore:(

and someone's been stealing my friend's lemons right off her tree.. (They are now 99cents per lemon in our grocery store)..
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Human scale, or Institution scale
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Only one works..long-term.
:(
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. I watched Bill Moyer interview with Andrew Bacevich
It backs up what you are saying. Plus more.

Consumerism is driving us into the hole and we aren't willing to face cleaning up our act.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I watched as my Aunt's very profitable business, started to suffer..back in the late 60's
Edited on Sat Sep-27-08 02:44 PM by SoCalDem
She had a very nice little clothing boutique. She did not charge an arm & a leg, since she rented her space at a very reasonable rate, and she & my uncle ran it themselves with only my help.

She had a nice downtown location, and was always pretty busy, until the mall came. One by one, the downtown stores started to close. As less stores were left, even the faithful customers found fewer reasons to "go downtown".. She finally retired , but the few stores left, disappeared..and the downtown basically died..

The mall that started it all, was eventually replaced by an ever BIGGER mall.. and so it goes:(
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Such a great post!
I couldn't agree with you more. :thumbsup:

Somehow, we really have to get a grip on what's happening, and make our representatives do something right for a change. Most people in congress don't even know what it's like to live at a working class level. They guess at what the problems are and what the solutions should be. They need input and recon from us. And a brainstorming with the brightest people we have who are not sold out to the corporatists who are the problem.

I do believe we can still recover from this. But ALL concern has got to go to the grass roots and enabling THAT recovery. If necessary, the federal government can become our bank and make sensible loans - but not if we go into hock like this and strap even that. We need to lend to ourselves, and believe in ourselves, and build REAL WORTH again.

And for God's sake, bring back industry. This idea that we're all going to be pencil-pushers or fast food workers is ridiculous. You're right, we should not be importing food. Food should be local. And we have the best land there is for that. This is all beyond stupid. And all so that the ultra-rich could substitute ways of doing things which don't work for their own benefit. Agri-business is a blight. Family farms are what work. Same with small business. It's the middle class with a few extra dollars to start new ones, which create the jobs.

We have no lack of ideas or energy. We are totally depleted from robbery for nothing. And remaking our entire economy and laws to serve nothing but that.

Enough is enough! This crisis legislation should be a downpayment on that change to come! And besides, the more we can lock in now, the better shape we'd be in if we DO end up with a President McJerk.

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thanks..
We can only hope that Obama can and will make some changes that are necessary.. even if it means taking some bitter medicine.. I would rather take the medicine all in one gulp, than to take it drop by drop:(
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's all true , what you have expressed here.
I know it and have seen it and have resisted it but it is much bigger than me and I have never had the power to stop it .

I never felt that what is said to be and sold as what is called progress was anything less than a lie to keep us captive and yet people bought into this and killed themselves and the planet in the process.

If we would have resisted which required only simple common sense, then we would still be a people who could provide for ourselves and a community and would have never allowed or needed the corporations to take us as slaves, which they have.

One must always remember, it is not what you have in material items or monitary wealth that defines you, it is what you are as a human and how you value life and the planet that counts.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. America has become a DeBartolo handjob.
everywhere you go, even Ketchikan Alaska has a mall, built by them in some way. We no longer see differences in peoples' lives, we see the same fucking stores everywhere, selling the same crap.

Stop, Slow Down, Buy what you need for a while and you'll find out, You don't want so much.

Peace.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. k&r for a lovely and thoughtful post.
I do believe we are in for some hard lessons...

sw
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. Agreed and very well said. n/t
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. So right. Our manufactured needs are the basis of it all.
I have had to rethink my needs and wants, see my journal...

Thanks for a beautiful and thought-provoking thread. Now I no longer have to brood on a similar post, you spoke my mind.

regards
bmc
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. We could learn something from the Mediterraneans..
Our son went to college in Florence Italy. He bought a bicycle when he got there and rode it all over for transportation..or took the trains when he traveled to other countries in Europe.. he lost weight, got healthier and did just fine with virtually no money at all.. I put money into his account every now and then so his ATM card worked, and we sent him phone cards, but he and his buds ate "street-food", and drank from the FREE water fountains in towns & cities.. He had an apartment that flooded every time it rained..(the courtyard door was not very well fitted), that he shared with 3 other guys.. They backpacked, walked or rode bikes.. They entertained themselves by sketching the great things to see in Florence & everywhere they went.. and trying to learn Italian :) They went to museums..

They napped in the afternoon..had no AC, and a shared bathroom in the hall..

When they came back to the states, they gave their bikes to kids in the neighborhood..

He did not miss Taco Bell or mcDonalds or Pizza Hut.. the ONLY thing he missed terribly was "real bacon":) except for missing us too :)
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Or we could learn something from your son :-)
I don't know about them mediterraneans, they are very much into expensive "style", and they had their empire too ;)
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I have said this before
This crisis is an opportunity. An opportunity to examine what is trully important in life. What we do with our lives to make us happy, content, satisfied. The economic meltdown is painful, but it is not the end of the world - it may be the end of doing things we took for granted. But, as one door closes another opens.

Consumerism is going to have to take a big hit - and this will affect every single one of us. How we react to it, how we adapt, will determine the success or failure within each one of us.

Sometimes - less is more.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yep.. on the last day of his life (yesterday) I'm sure Paul Newman's family & friends
were not sitting around thinking about how much money he had made or all the cool stuff he had bought..

RIP, Paul :cry:
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You know it is funny you should say that
Because my father just recently passed away - and I guess I have been reflecting on what is trully important in a person's life. I have been thinking of the legacy he left us - this simple hard working farmer. It sure as heck was not land, or equipment, or money or stuff.

And now I think of the legacy I will leave my son when my time comes. A legacy that cannot be bought or sold, will not deteriorate into dust or break after 30 days of use. A legacy that he will, in turn, without conscious thought, pass on to his children. THIS is worth fighting for. Wall Street is trully trivial by contrast.

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. We can vote with our dollars
Edited on Sat Sep-27-08 07:31 PM by Lydia Leftcoast
Yes, the locally owned store is a few dollars more expensive, but so what? You do not need most of the crap that is sold at WalMart. You'll get better food at a mom-and-pop ethnic restaurant than at Applebees. You don't need an expensive car. You may not need a car at all. Buy your own ingredients and make up big messes of soups, stews, stir-fries, and curries. Most of them freeze well. Live as close to your job as possible. If you move to a new city, don't move to the exurbs. Find an older home or apartment in a neighborhood that is convenient to locally owned businesses. Pay off your credit cards and use them only for true emergencies. (Holidays and birthdays are not emergencies.) Don't worry about impressing people.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Been doing it all my life.. I could count on my hands, the times I've even been IN a walmar
Frugaliity is not a vice:)
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I shopped at WalMart ONCE
That was when I was volunteering with a group from my church on the Mississippi Gulf Coast after Katrina. We had rented a van, and over dinner on our second-to-last night, we decided to each donate $100 worth of needed items to the areas of the relief center that we had individually been working in.

The only place to get things was the WalMart in Gulfport. I had been working in the medical tent, handing out non-prescription drugs, bandages, and other things that a non-medical person can safely hand out, so I loaded up my cart with OTC drugs--acetaminophen, ibuprofen, Pepto Bismol, cough syrup, and others. Thanks to WalMart's low prices, $100 bought an awful lot of OTC medications and supplies.

But that was an exception.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. My friend loves the damned place and every so often she makes me go with her
one time I bought some things, and the checkout kid said "credit?" when I handed him my debit card to slide.. I said "NO debit".. He looked quite surprised:( .. I think I spent about a hundred dollars...got some yard furniture on sale:)
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
27. Just say "No More".
Go on strike.

After election 2004, we decided to quit and started making plans.
We sold everything and cashed in most of our 401K (great timing). In 2006, we bought a piece of unspoiled property in a pristine area bordered by national forest with a long growing season and plenty of clean water.

We are currently clearing land, building (rebuilding old cabin) our home, growing our own vegetables, keeping 2 beehives (soon to be four), and 10 chickens. We are doing everything ourselves with hand tools. We hope to be energy independent or close to it by next year.

We QUIT.
We pledge to do as little as possible to support "The System".
We are "consuming" as little as possible.
We are also keeping our taxable income as small as possible.
Why continue to send money to a government that does NOT represent you?

If we truly NEED something we can't make ourselves, we buy it used, or salvage something and make it work. If we can avoid taxes by paying cash, we do so.

After two years, we are supplying eggs and veggies to neighbors. We are canning the rest to eat through the Winter. By next year, we should have surplus honey.

We are not totally FREE, but our dependency on "The System" is 90% less than before.
We currently have a Sat Dish for TV, but get more disgusted with that every day. That too may be jettisoned in the near future. INet access is by cheap dial up.

The US Government can no longer count on us to support their WAR machine or pay their bills.

We QUIT!
We couldn't be happier.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=246x7979



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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. I did that back in the 70s.
I miss it in many ways now. I wish you much luck! :)
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Sounds like a plan..and heavenly too!
But for many/maybe most people, this is not an option for them.. Most of us are pretty much stuck where we are, without resources to move. But for those who can, it's not a bad idea if you are handy and healthy :)

I would have to be a vegetarian.. could not kill my own food :(
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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. Great truthful post.
May I have your permission to re-post this, with credit and a link back to this thread? You state most eloquently things I also believe to be true.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. of course, you may
:)
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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Thank you. :) n/t
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. We have a 3rd and much better option.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
31. Nice post, SoCalDem. You expressed it so well.
Technogaianism. I really like the sound and idea of that. If we had collectively come to grips with the realities of our planetary changes 50 years ago I think we might have been able to pull it off. But, now it's probably too late. Unless, of course, those videos of the ice caps melting and huge chunks of Greenland actually becoming green are fake--like the moonwalk movies our government made to fool us into the space program (LOL I'm just kidding about the moonwalk).

The giant planetary purging is gaining momentum and it's gonna build up a lot of speed REALLY FAST. And we human beans are gonna be in a very deep and hot stew. It's painfully obvious that our leaders are desperately trying to keep the cat in the bag, but kitty is clawing the bottom out of the thing right now. Our "intelligent" ape brains and opposable thumbs have allowed us to get too far ahead of our awareness functions. We have screwed the pooch so to speak. We're about to learn that you can't dominate nature. It's gonna be UGLY. I hope I'm gone before it gets awful.

We have such a beautiful planet and I've been so fortunate to have lived well and happily and had so many wonderful friends, family, and experiences that it makes me wish I could do more to stop the devastation. I'm trying like most of us here on DU, but I feel like we're attempting to hold back a tsunami. Or three or four.


Sorry for all the mixed metaphors.


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