Ugh. Gramps exceeded my expectations.

[Warren Stupidity]

I'll leave it at: he didn't hurt himself.

[RufusTFirefly]

1. I agree. Sigh.

Obama had lots of opportunities and took very few of them.

[Orrex]

3. True, but

I suspect that Obama was wary of falling into the same trap that ensnared Kerry and Gore; each was criticized for being "too agressive" after pouncing on Bush's numerous gaffes.

[RufusTFirefly]

15. Well, that's primarily the spin that the MSM provides

That's the nefarious nature of the MSM. If Obama fails to speak up, he's a boring policy wonk. If he does speak up, he's "too aggressive."

[Orrex]

16. That's it exactly.

By the same reasoning, Repubicans are allowed to give post hoc "clarifications" every time they put their foot in their mouth, but Democrats commit "gaffes."

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lib2DaBone]

4. Ya..McCain sounded great as he Whistled thru his dentures...

[Subdivisions]

5. Unfortunately I have to agree. n/t

[femmocrat]

6. Same here.

I expected him to be addle-pated and blithering .... Instead he looked and sounded like the McCain of endless Sunday morning talk show appearances. His pat answers were well-honed.

I was glad that Obama had the hesitating under control, but I wanted him to be more hard-hitting, especially when McCain was downright condescending to him. He is still too damn polite!

[NeedleCast]

13. He won the primary doing exactly that...

[RufusTFirefly]

19. Yes! The condescension was especially galling

McCain was talking down to Obama for much of the time and Obama just seemed to take it instead of striking back.

[holybarcode]

7. I was surprised he actually remembered several important names and events accurately.

Was hoping he'd come off goofy as usual but he kept it together fairly well...and that's not a good thing for us.

[Orrex]

10. But by the time he'd gotten around to rattling them off...

He'd already gone way past the point of interest, and his rambling seemed unconnected to the question at hand. It seemed merely like a laundry list of complicated names that he'd memorized solely to make himself appear more knowledgeable.

But I suspect that it'll play well with his idiot base.

[holybarcode]

23. Idiot base. Yup. It's what we're up against

and there are a LOT of them.
:grr:

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

28. Yep, and they are delirious right about now

I know that, because I feel like crap...

Oh, and if he didn't have it already, I think he just wrapped up VA.

[Ahpook]

8. Well, McCain lied his sorry ass off through the whole thing.

It kept Obama in a spin cycle trying like hell to correct.

Very good tactic in a debate. And they know most of America won't give one moment of their time to check him on it.

Obama did well through the pressure, though.

[avaistheone1]

9. What I think McCain did very well tonight is tell a story - when he spoke about the bracelet he was

given. Story telling is very important to get people to buy into your narrative.

I think that was something Reagan did well too. Although I think most of Reagan's stories were pure fiction.

My candidate is Obama. He definitely has the better plan. He is smarter and not a war-monger like McCain. I would like to hear Obama become a better story teller. I think that would help him with undecided voters.

[Orrex]

21. That's an interesting assessment

Conservatives love nothing more than the apocryphal stories that confirm their preconceptions; that's how St. Ronnie was able to churn up so much hatred for "welfare queens" and "babies abandoned in dumpsters."

[Gwendolyn]

27. The 20-somethings watching with us HATED that anecdotal story telling!!

It sounded so phony. Hope everyone sees it for what it was.

[BreweryYardRat]

31. Yeah, that was cynical and manipulative.

Ugh.

[avaistheone1]

42. I bet one of the take aways from this debate that will be remembered

years into the future will be that story. Because people will remember how the story made them feel whether they like the story or not. People will not remember so much 10 or 20 years from now who said what about the various issues.

So in my mind to make your point be a good storyteller. You will connect with your audience cognitively as well as emotionally. And you will be remembered. The more I think of it McCain or his writers were quite brilliant in weaving his perceived strength being a soldier (did you know he was a POW lol?) with his bracelet story.

Obama shines when he describes his visions for this country. However, because of the format of this debate he was stymied from getting on a vision roll. It takes more time than was allowed tonite to build the ideas that form his vision where you get that cognitive and emotional buzz from Obama. imo

[Gwendolyn]

48. Well of course we're a little biased in this household...

and I agree with you that a well-timed personal story can evoke warm-your-heart feelings that are remembered well after the issues blather is forgotten. It's the Reader's Digest effect.

But, he's already told that story, picked up by MSM, and it seemed contrived both where he chose to insert it, and the awkward way in which he recounted it. Blech.

He's a POW??? :wow:

[devilgrrl]

33. his stories sounded like Nixon's 'Checker's Speech'

glib glib glib

[Jawja]

11. McCain did very well but Obama

was Presidential and in command of the issues.

[Mind_your_head]

12. It's okay - it was only the first round.....

there are a few more debates to come.

[radfringe]

14. he did about what I expected

said alot of the same crap he usually does, no specifics, buzzwords, no substance

- cut taxes for the top and it will trickle down
- deregulate deregulate
- continues bush's foreign policies
- surge surge surge
- surge some more in other places
- lots of distortions and fabrications

in bringing up his "experience" he's emphasized his age, which is a concern, especially with palin next in line

[Naturyl]

17. *Unfortunately* I couldn't agree more.

This was not our best night.

The next debates will be better. Obama will be on his home turf.

[chupacabranation]

18. I agree that McCain 'won' this round.

We expected him to be horrible, so I think his image definitely improved.

On a better note, I think this will be, by far, his strongest debate.

I think, for the lack of a better analogy, he will go down in flames on the subsequent ones.

[ramapo]

38. Not so fast

McCain was terrible in the first 30 minutes on the economy.

I think his constant "you don't understand" might have been effective with some. McCain finished stronger and I think Obama let some stuff go that he might've responded to. However there was the chance he would've sounded petty responding to some of the thinly veiled insults so his decision to let it go might have been wise.

[Terri S]

20. Well, Gergen said he needed to do more than tie

and he didn't, so he's still in a hole. Coming from Gergen, that's something.

[vanlassie]

22. McCain utilized straw men several times...among other devices.

[ThoughtCriminal]

24. Only in comparison to very low expectations

Flip votes in his favor - no.
Gain undecideds - I doubt it.

[AlphaCentauri]

47. He was OK, all we have to do is dismember all the lies he said. n/t

[Retrograde]

25. yeah, i know

McCain's a good, smooth speaker. Unless you listen to the words, and then you realize they don't make any sense.

Oh well, I'm just another liberal for Obama. Pass the goat cheese and arugula...

[ColbertWatcher]

26. The expectations were very low for him.

He exceeded those low expectations, but his incessant smiling and inability to say anything beyond the standard GOP talking points may have hurt him with independents.

[Marsala]

36. He exceeded OUR very low expectations

We were expecting him to implode. When he didn't and in fact managed to show a strong grasp of foreign policy, it shook us. Or at least me. But the media WERE expecting it, so they were not impressed too much.

[ColbertWatcher]

41. He didn't surprise me.

Although he spoke better than I what I've seen from him.

I wonder if they drugged him up?

[theothersnippywshrub]

29. Just because he didn't fling his own feces, and thus won the debate, doesn't mean he helped himself.

This election has been very close in the polls despite the fact that a vast majority of voters are disgusted by the results of the last eight years of republican rule. The reason it has been so close is that millions of voters have had doubts about whether Obama is capable of being an adequate (not even good, just adequate) president. Tonight Obama definitely showed that he is capable of being president. Even if most people think McCain "won" the debate, Obama only needed to convince 3 or 4 million of those doubting voters and he wins easily. He did that tonight.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. I agree. But he didn't hurt himself and I am sad about that.

[vanderBeth]

32. He exceeded my expectations-He didn't come out drooling and he spoke English.

[malaise]

34. McPOW lacked substance

It was all old and condescending. This was supposed to be his strong area and Obama was way more Presidential. His base will be happy and everyone else will be terrified. He's an angry old man.

[Avalux]

35. Look at it this way......

the only people McCain pleased are those already in his corner. Obama, on the other hand, showed he knows his stuff and played well to undecided voters.

Obama won by a landslide.

[NYC Liberal]

37. "he didn't hurt himself" is EXACTLY what hurt him!

McCain doing "alright" in a debate about foreign policy, where he is supposed to be really strong, is BAD BAD BAD for him. The fact that Obama held his own and at least made it a tie is great for us.

[Swamp Rat]

39. McCain cannot look Obama in the eye

Maybe he was busy reading cue cards? :shrug:

[ThePowerofWill]

40. You have just fallen prey to your lowered expectations.

He did better than you thought because he did not self destruct. When you lower performance expectations so low that anything less than a clear disaster is a win it takes away any fair balance of perspective.

[Gwendolyn]

46. Agreed...

Watching the replay snapshots on ABC news, in retrospect McClame comes off as both smarmy and simple. They've replayed the condescending Iran comments twice. ABC's take is def pro-Obama!!! Obama = A- McClame = B+

[obamaforme]

43. He seemed like a grumpy old man - trying too hard.

Confused and out of touch.

[katukov]

44. You can't expect McCain to come off as stupid as Bush

Nobody except Palin in this race holds a candle to Bush for sheer cluelessness, gibberish, and idiocy.

However, McCain holds the prize for mendacity in a debate.

Obama has ceded the high ground and is fighting in the trenches here. He has conceded the following:

(1) Iran, a country with the GDP of Alabama, would be a mortal threat if it continues its nuclear program.

(2) A threat to Israel is the same thing as a threat to the U.S.

(3) Ahmedinejad threatened to wipe Israel off the map (a false mistranslation)

(4) Venezuela is a rogue regime (its elections are more honest that ours).

(5) The Iraq war was wrong because it has cost a lot of American lives and money and not made us safer (not because it was a baldfaced war crime which has slaughtered a million Iraqis and created over 4 million refugees, a greater crisis than Darfur).

(6) The Ossetia situation is all Russia's fault.

Obama's arguments lack moral force because he has not shed the toxic Washington foreign policy consensus that we must run the world for its own good.

He has said one thing that is very true: The perpetrators of 9-11 remain at large and are still issuing videotapes.

[yellowcanine]

45. Mine too. He was much more grouchy and condescending than I expected.