Am I wrong on this? I don't want this bailout to pass...

[SnoopDog]

I say we have already bailed out everyone we are responsible for - Freddie/Fannie. AIG and Bear Stearns got a break I guess.

These investment banks got snookered and by Bush to boot. So why should we buy their 'bad mortgages'. Guess what - they still own the house - right?

If we have a liquidity problem, I say we just lend banks the money when People and Businesses ask for a loan. The US Gov is the Underwriter.

I say we lets these investment banks go bankrupt - those wonderful bankruptcy laws would apply to them too.

[EV_Ares]

1. I don't think that is a good idea. It really is one of those things that there

are no good answers.

[az chela]

2. they have screwed us out of most of our money so NO

NO BAILOUT

[fla nocount]

14. There's no satisfaction in screwing just you, they want you children and grand-children too,

This is designed to be a permanent welfare check for them and theirs.

[Mojorabbit]

19. I don't know what needs to be done

but we ARE on the verge of a total economic collapse. This is real. Where are all the best economic minds that should be meeting and coming up with a workable solution. They should be having round tables and coming up with solutions for the congress to look over. We do have some good economists in this country and other countries. This has global effects.

[SnoopDog]

20. How do you know we are on the verge of a total collapse?

I seriously would like to know...

[philly_bob]

26. Please somebody -- answer SnoopDog's question.

Other than a few banks bought by bigger banks, stock market prices dropping, and closing out the Bush-era in a full-fledged depression.

If I were Obama, I'd rather have $70 billion of dry powder than $70 billion of debt.

[Tigress DEM]

28. Here is what I think, but I could be wrong. Costs go up retail passes the buck.

These investment banks bought some pieces of mortgages so IF they go down, they will pass the buck and let homeowners go down hard.

They will let go of people's mortgages causing more to come due not due to the homeowners fault, but because the investment banks are cutting their losses and letting the homeowners pay the cost. I think we'd see spikes in the foreclosure rate even higher than it is now.

[SnoopDog]

31. Sorry that is not how that works...

They OWNED the mortgages so how can they let go of them...

Foreclosures are occurring because People don;t have jobs and/or income to support them...

[Tigress DEM]

48. They didn't own entire mortgages - they owned pieces of it.

It was a speculation game so that people could get more points for every transaction. That is why when people are looking closely at it, they are disgusted at the greed and corruption.

If this sector fails completely and nothing is put in place to protect the homeowners, there is no one for them to work it out with, whatever bank or government sector gets it could make higher demands or determine some people are in arrears.

Credit card industry did this kind of flip - a credit card sells to someone else and that company decides it isn't going to offer the same rate and viola you're screwed.

Just more of the game.

What I like about what the DEMS are proposing is at least we're getting some oversite and it's making the repukes nervous. They may know more than they are letting on and don't want to be stuck holding the bag so they are going even farther away from paying off wall-street's debts.

We are getting some political punches from this and it is building momentum to make real change.

[avaistheone1]

49. Is that why only 30% of Americans support the bailout regardless of political affiliation?

Some momentum!

(per AP and Rassmussen polls)

[Tigress DEM]

50. It's cool for us not to be on board. Less than 2 weeks ago the "economy" was "fine"

All WE KNOW is no one is really telling US shit and with the way the corporations are always at the trough like little piggies waiting to be fed, I don't blame anyone for whatever position they take.

I am encouraged that people are looking at it and shouting about it enough to make their congress critters nervous. It means they will work harder to pass something that works for us even if they help this industry.

However, I'm just adding I have heard some pieces that could mean we get screwed either way, which would be business as normal, but if we can pin some oversite on this and do as much damage control as possible so people don't lose their homes, that's my main concern.

[elocs]

3. I wonder which of the American people the Democrats believe support the bail-out?

Certainly not the overwhelming majority of your average Democrats or even the American people.

[avaistheone1]

39. Correct. Most Democrats and Republicans do not support the plan.

Constituents Make Their Bailout Views Known

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/business/25voices.html?em=&pagewanted=print

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. No, it shouldn't pass

not as long as NO regulations are in place, and the people have no claim on the companies they are bailing out. Those banks would never allow a person to get away with not paying on loans--so why should we let them get away with it?

[Eric J in MN]

5. Lehman Brothers already declared bankruptcy.

If any other big investment banks can't pay their bills, then they can also declare bankruptcy.

Smaller investment banks will take their place.

Congress shouldn't pass the Bush bailout.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. I don't want it to pass either.

It's a magic time, no? :crazy:

[SnoopDog]

7. These are 'investment' banks... so,

by default all 'investments' are at risk... So screw them.

One thing that is missing from the entire conversation is that our BASIC economy sucks. The reason people are being thrown out of there homes is because People don;t have money. Its called JOBS and we are being gouged on every living expense...

[L. Coyote]

33. Did they lose all that capital from Bush tax cuts?

This is difficult to grasp when all your investments are in the frig and cupboards, and you left your life savings at the gas pump.

[msongs]

8. just another dems/repub scam to fattent the bank accounts of their corporate masters

really no evidence presented that Ive seen or read that actually proves there is a crisis on anything other than paper. Any plan needs only to help individual investors who have been cheated, not entities that deserve to die.
investors take risks, they also need consequences.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[SnoopDog]

10. Yes this bothers me too - the Dems are right in the thick of it...

Everyone knows the outcome - no matter what the people think - they will pass this and all the Rich people get Richer...

While our country crumbles.... both in life and infrastructure...

[Democrats_win]

9. I hate the bailout, but if it's going to happen, I liked the 250x2+350 plan better than the 700 plan

I felt this bailout was a scam but the 250x2 + 350 plan would give some wiggle room in the face of panic. Dems should support this plan or something a little better and tell the Repubs to take it or leave it. Then if there is a recession, it will be further owned by the conservatives and their failed president bush.

[baldguy]

11. Bail out the homeowners.

Let them pay off their mortgages to the banks. Then, if the banks are STILL in trouble even after they get that injection of cash - THEN LET THEM FAIL!

[jtrockville]

12. RE: Lending banks money when people/business ask for a loan...

Why lend banks the money? If the whole crux of this "crisis" is that no one can get a loan, then why not just set up a temporary federal loan program? Offer reasonable interest rates to qualified borrowers.

When Wall Street figures out how they'll bail themselves out of the mess they created, we can sell them back the loans at a modest profit.

???

[progressive_realist]

41. It would seem best to cut out the middleman.

Based on the arguments I've heard, the main danger seems to be a freezing of the very short-term credit markets (commercial paper and overnight repos). So why not just have the Fed step in directly to keep these markets operating smoothly?

The institutions that are on the wrong end of the CDOs/MBSes need to be allowed to fail. They took the risk -- now they should pay the price.

[Bluestar]

13. I'm with you, Snoop

The Paulsen "plan"--the Bush administration cooking up their final "FU" to America, looting what's left of the treasury as they go out the door. They only have 3 months left to complete their mission of bankrupting America and this is the quickest way to do it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

15. I don't want it to pass

[scarletwoman]

16. k&r -- I'm with you. NO BAILOUT! Let the fuckers go bankrupt.

And damn any Dems who vote for this bullshit.

sw

[SnoopDog]

18. And I offer a real Democratic solution...

If we have a liquidity problem, use the $700B to set up a system for People and Business to get loans.

Sorry, Investments are always at risk - lets those investment banks deal with their misfortunes. And remember, they still OWN those Houses tied to the
"bad" mortgages.

[Individualist]

17. No bailout!

Say no to the cabal and their DLC enablers.

[1corona4u]

21. I guess if you have nothing to lose, it's good. If you have something to lose, not so much.

[Pastiche423]

22. NO BAILOUT

Period.

[lostnotforgotten]

23. We Agree - The Bailout Plan Should Not Be Passed!

eom

[alittlelark]

24. After reading this link I now recognize there is no escape.

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSNYG00131920080925?sp=true

NEW YORK, Sept 25 (Reuters) - U.S. financial institutions borrowed a record $187.75 billion per day on average directly from the Federal Reserve in the latest week, showing the central bank went to extremes to keep the financial system afloat amid the biggest crisis since the Great Depression.

Federal Reserve data showed on Thursday the total amount borrowed nearly quadruples the previous record of $47.97 billion per day notched just the week before and comes as the Bush administration and U.S. lawmakers work on hammering out an agreement on a $700 billion rescue package for the financial system.

"This looks like the balance sheet of a central bank that is keeping the financial system on life support," said Michael Feroli, U.S. economist with JPMorgan in New York.

Primary credit borrowings averaged a new record $39.36 billion per day in the latest week ended Sept. 24 compared with the previous record of $21.60 billion a week ago.



Better sooner than later. It's time to turn off the ventilator.



I can't believe I'm saying this.:evilfrown:

[mike_c]

25. K&R-- agreed 100 percent-- let the rat bastards twist in the wind....

Have ya'll read what they did? The levels of greed they tried to leverage? UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE. And now we're supposed to pay their bill for them?

I want to see heads on gibbets if we have to bail these rat fuckers out. Cuts in executive compensation my ass! I want cuts in executive necks!

[tavalon]

43. It is wrong and in a right world, the bad people would be paying

but in this world, all of us will pay, one way or the other. We bail them out now and the landing is softer, we let them twist in the wind as they rightly should and we go into a depression faster than anyone can imagine. Unfortunately, I think even with a bailout, we are headed into a depression and I think the Bushies just want the crash to happen after they are out the door.

[tavalon]

44. It is wrong and in a right world, the bad people would be paying

but in this world, all of us will pay, one way or the other. We bail them out now and the landing is softer, we let them twist in the wind as they rightly should and we go into a depression faster than anyone can imagine. Unfortunately, I think even with a bailout, we are headed into a depression and I think the Bushies just want the crash to happen after they are out the door.

[NoUsername]

27. Check out the economy forum and you'll see you're not wrong.

Some great posts when up tonight with some really good info. Here's a couple to get you started:

Bankruptcy modification is needed for the govt. to be able to modify mortgages if it purchases MBS's. IIRC, that's not in the bailout bill.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x44082

Good explanation on just what credit default swaps are (written in plain language so an idiot like myself can understand them):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x44087

Damn. The more I dig into this, the more it's looking like the bailout bill is nothing more than a fleecing of the taxpayers (which we knew all along) that will do diddly-squat to solve the problem. I've been against it from the get-go but now I'm REALLY against it. Unless of course it will be paid for entirely by a tax on the top 1% in which case I could give a rat's ass. Of course, they'll still need to fix the underlying problems that allowed these things to happen in the first place but at least the taxpayers won't be on the hook for what's looking more and more like a monumental scam.

[TexasObserver]

29. I want the bailout to fail, but for the GOP to be responsible for failure.

They should own this down market. They created it with their deregulation and sorry Bush administration.

[L. Coyote]

30. Ask this: Who has given a good reason it should, a real reason

this particular solution is the way to proceed.
There are unlimited possibilities to choose.
Why this one? Why not buy homeowner mortgages for qualifying owner occupied residences only. Take care of those who drive our economy first, protect the family home first. Speculators be damned if they leveraged too many properties on too little equity. Offer the properties to the occupants and assume mortgages with an owner occupant.

[Naturalist]

32. I got your back Snoop

[Revlon10]

34. NO BAILOUT

When people were dieing in New Orleans, losing there homes all over the country, jobs, and NO health care.
I NEVER heard the word Bailout.

No Bailout
lets ride it out. Don't be afraid of a depression. We are in a depression for the last seven years. its a different kind of depression,
not like back in 29' the new one is slow and full of fear. No rights, and war everything is upside down.

NO BAILOUT

[Revlon10]

36. No BAILOUT

NO FU*K'en BAILOUT


NO.

[SnoopDog]

37. Wow... Good point Revlon10...

Americans devastated by Katrina were dying and the Bush did nothing... Fuck them on their 'executive bailout'.

[krabigirl]

35. Why can't we loan them money, rather than giving them a gift? Or how about a much smaller amount?

I don't understand why they should get money for nothing. Why not a loan? Maybe a 30-year fixed? lol

[Revlon10]

40. NO BAILOUT

Let the the Banks, borrow the money from China.
When they were doing good, the didn't know me.
These people who are supposed the be the best f-up they are big boys let them take the fall.
The man on main street gets no bailout. If we need help for our businesses, we borrow form the bank.
Where is all the money?
Where did it go.
They went to the top school to get these jobs. If they did not see this coming then they don't deserve to be bailed out.
I thought there job was to prevent this. CE O's must be accountable, sue them.


NO BAILOUT

[Revlon10]

38. NO BAILOUT

When our war vets come back home, the one who do. America better bail then out, and give them whatever they need.
Maybe those fat bonuses/ golden parachutes should go the the vets.


NO BAILOUT
NO BAILOUT
NO BAILOUT

[tavalon]

42. I wish it were so simple. It would be so satisfying, but

the fact of the matter is that we have to do something to slow this down because while trickle down doesn't work when it's money that's supposed to trickle down from the rich to the poor, but trickle down economics works exceeding well at hurting the rich and devastating the poor. Every last one of us will be hurt far more than we are if our economy gets destroyed by this mortgage and later credit fiasco. Jobs will go away with lightening fast speed causing more credit and mortgage problems and so on and so on until who the fuck knows.

I don't want the bailout the way it is now but I know something has to be done, some sort of liquidity needs to be injected if only to make the crash a little softer so we have time to figure out how to live in this radically changed world. Hell, we at least need time to learn Chinese.

[Truth2Tell]

45. Nonsense. Trickle down is trickle down.

Intervene at a lower level. Fine still spend the 700 Bil, but spend it a few dominos down the line. Let the first few fall. Firewall the American workers. 700 B will do that just as well.

No bailout.

[tavalon]

46. I agree with that, I was responding to what looked like

just don't do anything and I know that won't work. I think going to a lower level is a stellar idea.

[OakCliffDem]

47. Kick