"Days away from complete financial meltdown."

[TalkingDog]

First I want to hand out two "fuck you"s.

One to every Ass-Kissing Ann Rand Reaganite Bastard on the planet.

And one to every "skeptical" poster who smugly threw around terms like: chicken little and doom and gloomers. And for them I'll add: Bite me.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/washington/19cnd-cong.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1221854994-Lc2vrGvnErxcJ19zMWH9tw

“When you listened to him describe it you gulped," said Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York.

As Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and chairman of the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, put it Friday morning on the ABC program “Good Morning America,” the congressional leaders were told “that we’re literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system, with all the implications here at home and globally.”

Mr. Schumer added, “History was sort of hanging over it, like this was a moment.”

When Mr. Schumer described the meeting as “somber,” Mr. Dodd cut in. “Somber doesn’t begin to justify the words,” he said. “We have never heard language like this.”

[RB TexLa]

1. So Schumer and Dodd have the election cycle rhetoric cranked up as well.

[RainDog]

9. can you explain what you mean by this remark?

are you saying the last few days have not been a major financial for banks and AIG?

[TalkingDog]

13. clarify: what do you mean by major financial?

And if I am reading you correctly, yes, it helped them out a lot.

But ultimately at our expense. Those are tax dollars they are throwing at the problem. And you can read Tax Dollars = Infrastructure, Student Loans, Health and Human Services, Mail Delivery, Meat Inspections, Education for Under-privileged children.

[RainDog]

15. I was asking rgbolen

I got the impression rgbolen was saying the talk about financial problems is political rhetoric.

[sendero]

74. Nobody really knows..

... what would happen without the bailouts, so yes, it IS political rhetoric.

[RainDog]

18. oh, and that should have read "major financial blow out"

I'm gonna incorporate myself and then ask for a govt. bailout. sort of like The Mouse the Roared.

[MindMatter]

10. The only "emergency" here is that they have only about 90 more days to rape and pillage

so they need to rape and pillage like they have never raped and pillaged before.

It took Halliburton several years to suck 1/10th as much money out of the American public as the AIG people were able to do with one midnight meeting.

[napoleon_in_rags]

16. No matter how you slice it, its a hack.

We need broke American taxpayers to pay 1 trillion to rich Wall street companies or the economy will collapse!!!

Even if its true, even if intentions are completely pure, this is baaaaad news.

[Odin2005]

38. Oh BS.

If you think there is no crisis and that it's all a conspiracy you seriously need help. The super-rich are about to lose their shirts no matter what happens.

[JackRiddler]

48. That depends on how you define rich.

The super-super rich are making out like bandits, baby.

[Odin2005]

49. A few lucky ones are, but many are going to loose a lot of $$$.

[Voltaire99]

52. You're sadly deluded.

Wall St. will be writing whatever the sheep in Congress pass. It's a looting, the financial equivalent of the the Patriot Act.

[Odin2005]

55. The only people who are deluded are the conspiracy nuts that think most of the super rich...

...are going to ride through this crash with no pain. It is the MINDSET of Market Fundamentalism that caused this crash, a mindset that even left the super-rich deluded. The only ones that will ultimately benefit from this mess are a few luck speculators and the CEOs that got out with their golden parachutes. Most of the investor class that got themselves into this mess are about to see investments disappear into thin air as the funny money vanishes.

[mhatrw]

62. To whom has the debt/risk been transferred?

They are looting our treasury in perpetuity.

[vssmith]

73. This the kind of shock that Naomi Klein has written about

just watch the Jackals feed on this one

[closeupready]

75. Yep. Anyone who hasn't seen this has not been paying attention.

n/t

[adamuu]

54. I believe Dodd and Schumer's account of it. Don't you? n/t

[Yuugal]

77. No

What I see is a large group of rich people(congress) being shocked and awed into giving our treasury to the same bunch of neocon crooks who have screwed us over and over. "If you don't do what we want, you rich congress-critters will lose everything.....your rich friends will lose everything.....oh, btw, the poor and wage slave class are going to pay dearly but who gives a shit about them." ::group chuckle::

BOHICA

[TalkingDog]

2. a kick along with the rec would be good.... thanks recommenders...

[maxsolomon]

3. so why do we get the bill?

who will be held accountable? by whom? what will prevent this from recurring?

string phil gramm up by his nuts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Right now they need to stabilize the market

we are in uncharted territory as is

If this does not work... it may as well collapse, I read this as the last ditch effort

As to Gramn and the rest... PUSH for new deal economics

[Odin2005]

42. I say use this bail-out to force higher taxes on the have-mores.

They will really have no choice. They won't let the financial system collapse because it would destroy their wealth, so we are in a position to force them to pay higher income, capital gains, estate, and corporate taxes.

[cabluedem]

64. Thats a teriffic idea. We must make the rich pay for their mistakes.

I am not going to bail these greedy capitalists out, for one.

[jkshaw]

21. According to Bush in the Rose Garden,

The evil doers will be "persecuted." (I am not making this up.)

[TalkingDog]

31. He somehow always tells the truth in the core of his lies. Without fail.

And this is a major FAIL.

[southerncrone]

76. He certainly does. He cloaks the truth with a variety of

misspoken jibberish & ramblings. But he does tell the basic truth, it just takes months or years to realize (after the fact) that looking back & untangling his language, he told us what was going to happen.

That usually makes me even more furious! :grr:

Methinks that's why he always has that "smirk".

[Robbien]

4. Which is why they handed the keys of the kingdom over to the Central Bank

and they gave up all governmental rights and oversight responsibilities.

We are all now citizens of Central Bankland.

[Greyhound]

11. Now a few more of us know that we are. We have been since the 30s.

That is, IMO, the elephant traditionally ignored about FDR's New Deal, in the final analysis, what it did was to preserve the parasitic system that gives us this Ponzi scheme called the Central Banking System.
:kick: & R


BTW, where are those flapping assholes (you know, the one's with com & con in their names) anyway?

[ContinentalOp]

5. I don't know one way or the other which was the right route to take,

but it disturbs me that Democratic Congress members still take any "warning" from a Republican appointee at face value. Fool me once...can't get fooled again and all that.

[malaise]

19. Bingo

it disturbs me that Democratic Congress members still take any "warning" from a Republican appointee at face value. Fool me once...can't get fooled again and all that.

Thenks but no thenks.

[kiranon]

43. This sounds like "weapons of mass destruction" again. Don't believe them.

I hope the democrats in Congress aren't getting roped into yet another neocon scheme for which they and the citizens will be left holding the bag.

[Hugabear]

6. Meanwhile, McIdiot continues to act like a petulant child

While Congress and Wall Street are doing their damnest to forestall the worst economic disaster EVER, McIdiot is running around frothing at the mouth. The motherfucker has offered ONE DAMNED SOLUTION, instead running from camera to camera playing the 'blame game'.

[lostnotforgotten]

8. Don't You Just Hate The Sanctimonious Ayn Rand Republican Reagan Loving Bastards

That got us in this mess.

Freepers, you can kiss my ass!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

12. McCain responds by saying he wants to do away with greed

I wonder how he plans to do away with something that is innate to a profit-oriented society and which has forever been one of humankind's basic impulses. Torture it out of them? Maybe Sister Sarah Gantry will lead them in a spiritual revival to help them see the light.

[FiveGoodMen]

22. Surely he'll lead the way by giving all but one of his houses to the less fortunate?

[Hubert Flottz]

25. OMG not the unwinable...WAR ON GREED!

Maybe he will make Phil Gramm "Greed Czar"

[TalkingDog]

32. Nice. Greed Czar....n/t

[Raksha]

50. Nobody can say Phil Gramm isn't qualified.

Re Maybe he will make Phil Gramm "Greed Czar"

He knows all about greed.

[Not Sure]

60. LOL! Greed Czar. I think I just woke everyone in the house up (n/t)

[sshan2525]

14. Um, it's AYN Rand....

but carry on, nonetheless.

[TalkingDog]

26. Pissed off...fingers don't work... but, yes, you are correct n/t

as stated, fingers don't work....

[katty]

27. Ayn appears to be the poster person upon which to project

rage...she is long dead, wrote some truly good books and was more an intellectual than an executive--this kind of free market, let them eat cake attitude of the rich and powerful rulers (in any age) has been around forever-Ayn Rand did not create it.

[tbyg52]

56. As someone on another thread said - Ayn Rand was a SCIENCE FICTION writer!

And yes, I have read her, and yes, she did give me some thoughts. As did Pohl, Kornbuth, Heinlein, Robinson (Spider and Kim Stanley), Silverberg, Asimov, Butler, McIntyre. We must distinguish questions from answers.

Edited to remove the "nt," as I obviously did have more I wanted to say....!

[femrap]

58. thank you....I

enjoyed reading her books....I had a totally different slant. I felt her idea of ineptitude applied to corp. a-holes who are just as bureaucratic as gov't.

[mhatrw]

63. She wrote amateur melodramas in which heroes were portrayed as

billiard balls unaffected by society or even each other.

[RagAss]

72. ....well, Atlas just shit !

[vanderBeth]

17. I hated Ayn Rand.

That is all.

[Mme. Defarge]

20. Wow!

:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow::wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:
:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

45. yes, wow

what we are witnessing is like a dream

[bentley]

23. This reminds me of when

they had a closed door meeting about Iraq and WMD. They are playing us as fools. Free market by a@#.

[readmoreoften]

24. I always take Ayn Rand's books by the armful out of the philosophy section & put them in humor.

I don't work at a bookstore either.

[magellan]

61. LOL!

Soon you might not have to bother; that's where they'll go automatically.

[K Gardner]

28. I hate to be obtuse.. but could someone explain EXACTLY what "complete meltdown"

means? In terms of us "little people"..

Last I heard, the meme was that the "bailouts" had shored everything up.

I know bupkis about this stuff.

[TalkingDog]

33. This might explain a little in an encylopedic style:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

[K Gardner]

44. The "cause and snowball spiral" sections of that article are great.. which is pretty much

what I was wondering.. thanks !

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Look at pictures of the Great Depression

means no jobs, and little food, and cardboard

[HamdenRice]

69. You are days away from not being able to cash your paycheck or use an ATM. Read this thread-->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4027506

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. As usual, the politicians panic, then try to appear to be doing "something".

However harebrained and self-serving it might be. Trusting politicians to "save" the economy is like having Tony Soprano manage your bank account.

[MindPilot]

30. You mean like when Senators and House members were told

that Saddamn had WMDs and America was a mere 45 minutes away from a mushroom cloud?

Why would anyone think that these experts are any more reliable that those experts?

Me thinks it is just more fear-mongering to get people to give up their rights and look the other way while they pick our pockets.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Because they were not the only ones saying this crisis was that bad

now they should have listened to the IMF (used words like great depression) oh over eight moths ago

Should have listened to folks like Krugman who warned of this as well

In other words... this is not just Paulson and Bernake who were caught with their pants down... but OUTSIDE experts, unlike the WMDs that were not confirmed by anybody outside of the office of special plans

[ContinentalOp]

37. Well, anyone can see the problem but why would they go along with Bernake's "solution"? -nt-

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. We could do nothing, and let them fail... guess what was done in 1929-32?

That is why they first tried to do what the Japanese did in the 1990s... dropping interest rates like there was no tomorrow

That didn't work... not that any of us was too shocked about that

What they are doing right now has NEVER been done... so we are in uncharted territory... and I do hope that it works for our sakes... and it is followed with strong re-regulation

[TalkingDog]

36. I agree that we can't trust them, but if they are catapulting the propaganda...

they've been doing it in a much more subtle way than Saddam and that wholly transparent lark.

I have a number of friends (dems) in and out of the markets, who have been predicting this for a couple of years now.

If they've got a grand scheme other than saving their asses til the election, then I bow to them and say: "Well played, sirs."

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Saving asses was part of the plan, didn't work

and many folks have been expecting this for ... in my case over four years

[spanone]

41. katrina economy......we have been robbed

[Javaman]

46. wow, so we delayed it for a week. woo hoo...

:crying:

[Gin]

47. why does this shit always happen on a weekend...and the bail out or sale always happen on

a Sunday? Did they not see the danger the days before?

[prayin4rain]

53. seriously, i agree.... n/t

[SmileyRose]

51. I'm kinda thinking Dodd and Schumer can bite off for all I care.

If they were surprised it's only because they were doing a piss poor job. No, I'm not saying this pile of rat butts is THEIR PERSONAL FAULT - I'm saying they should not have been surprised considering the shennanigans that have been going on pretty much non stop all of my adulthood. (I'm just shy of 50)

[judasdisney]

66. But NO ONE could have FORESEEN planes crashing into buildings

[femrap]

57. It's Ayn.

I rather enjoyed 'Atlas Shrugged'.....because it reminded me of the stupid, greedy CORPORATE people I was working with. Bureaucratic a-holes exist in both gov't and CORPORATIONS.

Now the line between gov't and corps is fading into fascism. And with the stupid populace of the US, I fear how easily they will be manipulated with an Oct. Surprize.

[Dreamer Tatum]

59. Do you really think Schumer, Dodd, and Frank have completely clean hands in all this?

I hope you don't.

There is enough blame to spread across both sides of the aisle.

[Greyhound]

78. Oh no, we're all good, they're all bad. The Democrats are innocent, if a little naive,

and had no idea that all this was a bad idea.:eyes:





WAKE UP AMERICA!

[judasdisney]

65. But SARAH PALIN blah blah blah blah. But this is "tinfoil." But things aren't that bad.

[GeorgeGist]

67. Shock Doctrine or

Sanity. Will America succumb to Milton Friedman Disease? Schumer and Dodd seem willing.

on edit: Thank you, Naomi Klein.

[Stockholm]

68. TalkingDog

This too will pass.

The world is not worse off without a couple of investment banks.

[HamdenRice]

70. What if, by Wednesday, you can't cash your paycheck or use an ATM?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4027506

[RagAss]

71. Can Colin Powell, with cartoons of people in bread lines be far behind?

[fed_up_mother]

79. If it's that bad, 900 billion is only buying time until the election

although with a real economic meltdown, they wouldn't even need any election - martial law and all that...