Talk me out of this. I am in fairly good health and 61 years old.

[rzemanfl]

I have a small amount of money socked away in retirement accounts. I am convinced that the Repukes are currently taking the light bulbs out of the ceiling fixtures on their way out the door and will leave this huge stinking bailout mess behind. The only ways out of this mess for any government is to inflate their way out of it or to confiscate the wealth of the rich and redistribute it, which ain't gonna happen IMHO. I am thinking of just taking the money out and buying shit that I need or would like to have and enjoying the stuff while the money still has a bit of purchasing power left rather than leaving it in there until it will only buy a pound of hamburger and some buns.

Explain to me how Obama can take this poison pill and turn it into prosperity. This is not in any way intended to be a criticism of Obama, he is being left in a minefield and they are burning the maps and taking the metal detectors with them.

[The Straight Story]

1. Party on I say

:)

I would buy a good generator though with it (the type that hooks up to the house and uses propane or natural gas) and stock up on some things you might not be able to get if the market goes bad (dry goods, etc and so on).

[fed_up_mother]

4. Generators can get very expensive to run

My neighbor spent a fortune just for a few days without electricity for Ike.

[The Straight Story]

23. That is why I recommend the natural gas or propane ones

a tad cheaper in the long run.

[fed_up_mother]

29. But when you're broke, a "tad cheaper" is probably still too expensive :(

Perhpas better to spend the money stocking up on items that can make life bearable without electricity if the OP really wants to get in "survivalist" mode. :)

JMO

[pitohui]

43. yeah a tad cheaper is still too much

i qualified to have fema buy me a free generator because of katrina, i ultimately decided not to do so because i could not afford to put fuel in it and i did not wish to spend the next hurricane doing what others i saw doing during katrina (driving madly up and down the entire southeast searching for sources of fuel)

if you are at an age where over heating will cost your life then yeah obviously you can't be concerned w. the cost but i am still in middle age, hell, i camp as a hobby, and i just don't see the benefit of a generator for me

[AndyTiedye]

35. SOLAR!

a LOT cheaper in the long run.

[roguevalley]

40. sweetie, I took mine out and took a bath but I have a cd accruing

interest in a VERY CONSERVATIVE credit union and that is my nest egg. Rather the money I have than the money that will evaporate. I lost 56K when bush came in and talked us into recession. Won't happen again. CD's are good.

[TomInTib]

2. For once, I have nothing to add (I am pretty much in the same boat).

I am buying old guitars, and keeping my long-held faith that there will always be people (fools, such as myself) who will give just about anything for same.

[rzemanfl]

6. You look like Jesus and can sound like Charlton Heston. You'll

get by. Start a church.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. For one thing, he can move up the date on repealing the Bush tax cuts on billionaires.

It should be one of the first things he does, right after pulling the majority of troops out of Iraq and imposing an immediate moratorium on no bid contracts. Take that money and begin an immediate New Deal with public works projects to put people to work and rebuild our infrastructure.

That's just a start. It won't be easy but it can be done. Obama is our only hope.

[Newshues]

5. Obama gets one free massive tax increase

and gets to lay it directly at the Republicans feet.

That's how. The best part is, The tax increase will come on capital gains and other adjustments to the tax code that make unearned income be treated like earned income.

Couple that with some closing of both business and personal loopholes and Obama suddenly gets to pay for most of this mess. A couple of ticks up in interest rates will cover the rest.

Don't look at this as a mess Obama has to clean up, it's a golden gift that will ultimately pay for the things Obama wants to accomplish.

[MadrasT]

8. I like your optimism.

:hug:

[rzemanfl]

17. If I am reading the charts correctly the government takes in about

1.5 trillion a year from income taxes and it pays about $500 billion in interest, not counting what it is borrowing now to bail out the rich risk takers. It is going to take a lot of adjustment to the tax code to pay off a trillion bucks and the interest on it. I admire your optimism, but I will be long dead before a dent is made in paying off this boonedoggle.

Back a long time ago it was said that we would threaten to cut off foreign aid to other countries and they would threaten to die. We are seeing the same thing with these banks and insurance companies.

[Sanity Claws]

7. You will have to eat as long as you are alive

So spending all the money on stuff is not going to work. You might be able to barter some for food later on. My advice would be to buy arable land so you can grow food and raise a couple of chickens. At least you won't starve.

I am a strong Obama supporter but there are limits on what he can do to fix the mess created by the thieving Republicans.

[valerief]

24. That would work, except for the fact when chaos ensues, it will be taken away.

Taken by the govt thieves or by marauding thieves.

If money means nothing, neither does a deed.

[Javaman]

9. My wife and I are in the process of converting our whole backyard and front yard

into a garden.

I honestly believe we can't count on the financial system here in the states any longer. It's a gigantic ponzi scam.

so while the stores are still taking our play money, I'm investing it back into myself to feed, me, my wife and a few friends.

Parties only last so long before the hang over the next day.

I would love to continue eating and having fresh water with the occasional party now and then.

But, hey, that's just me.

[Vanje]

48. Be sure to include chickens

2 or 3 hens in a portable coop will produce eggs , fertilize your garden, and will eat your scraps.
They are also charming and amusing.

[Javaman]

49. Funny you say that...

we are getting some in the spring along with a bee hive. :)

[Mz Pip]

10. My opinion for what it's worth

is that there will be no overnight solution to this crisis. I recall an analogy that the economy is like a huge freighter and that it takes time to turn it around.

We're in the same position. My husband has been self employed and has put money away into IRAs for both of us. I have a small retirement income from the state from 11 years working in education.

I remember all the concern about the Democrats raising taxes as a justification for voting Republican. I with that the only losses we have suffered would have been a few extra thousands of dollars in tax increases over the past 7 years. This is so much worse than tax increases.

[Winterblues]

11. When Clinton took over in 1993 it was pretty much the same scenerio

We saw what responsible leadership accomplished.. It can and will happen again, however as soon as we get our house in order they will strike again. It has always been so.

[elfin]

15. I don't think it was quite as bad, but you have a good point

and where Clinton was buoyed by the Silicon Valley Bubble, Obama can lead us with a Green Bubble and sound fiscal policies that avoid the collapse coming from such intense growth in one sector.

[glitch]

33. I love your optimism.

Not kidding. :)

[pitohui]

45. when clinton took over IT WAS WORSE!

example, on my street, thanks to the bush thieves, in 1992 there were three boarded up homes as well as a great many offered for sale or lease

today there are zero boarded up homes and two offered for sale but there are no foreclosures

just looking around me, as far as financial disasters go, this one is still a piker compared to what poppy left us

[Mme. Defarge]

12. My situation exactly!

Still wondering if I should plow all of my savings into Mattress World stock.

[napi21]

13. I'm in a similar, if not worse spot than you are. I turned 65 4 days ago,

an on SS & have a small 401K fund that is deminishing by the hour this week! I like Obama's idea of using gov't power to put people to work. Our infrastructure sure is in pretty desperate shape and a more like that could give the injection the economy needs. People would be put to work at decent wages, the infrastructure would be repaired...at least a lot of it, and nothing improves the overall economy better than decent jobs! He's also said he would re-establish rules & regulations on the investment sector which is MANDATORY IMO.

You & I have been through a lot of ups and downs in our lifetime, and we'll make it through this one too1!

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. I can't talk you out of this. I took my money out.

And I am so glad I did.

In the last 6 months I have cashed in my Roth accounts, put the money in the bank, and am now taking chunks out of the bank.
The IRA is in cds till Jan...I have 50/50 chance of getting it back.

No, you are making sense to me.
This is not your average recession.
There is no economy to prop up.
There are no investments that will pay any meaningful amount of interest, and things are moving too fast to know how safe anything is now. Look at all that has happened in one week.
We got sold a bill of goods to invest our retirement money, while the Rethugs used it to make themselves rich.
Do you know that many cultures do not believe in banks, debts, etc. All cash.

Me, I am holding onto my money to buy rice and beans and garden seeds. Things are going to get ugly.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. You a gamblin' man? OK, there's a a big chance Obama...

can't pull if off and the whole thing tanks.

But, there's a chance he can pull it off. Besides, NOBODY wants it to tank, so everyone will be pulling for it to make it, one way or another.

If it all tanks, we're all screwn and starving-- starting from scratch again. But, if it doesn't tank, you just spent all your scratch on stuff you can't eat. And you might live another 15, 20 years. Or more.

So, do you really want to make that bet?

[SheilaT]

18. I am your age,

and I have been reading for about the past 50 years (and that's no exaggeration) about the imminent demise of our entire system. LOTS of posters here four years ago were convinced that the end was near and they were stocking up on guns and water and food and all that stuff. Over and over and over again this apocalyptic scenario is repeated.

Don't believe it. We're not going to waltz away with no consequences to what's been happening, but there's not going to be a complete and total meltdown. Spend your money sensibly, but don't spend it all. Try to be as debt free as possible, which is always a good thing, no matter what's happening in the economy. Don't take everything out of your retirement accounts. That's not a very good idea. Do pay attention to how it's invested, since chances are you're going to live another 20 to 25 years, more if you've got good genetics.

[rzemanfl]

20. Thanks for your reply. The difference that I see is that we have

never had a situation where the people in power were so purely evil and uncaring about others. The rich branch of the Republican party (as opposed to the crazy, voting against their own self-interest branch) would be quite happy to live in gated enclaves while the rest of us lived in tin shacks and carboard boxes. In fact I think it is their goal.

[LeftyMom]

19. Pulling your money out on a downswing is dumb.

Depending on what it's invested in, you might get eaten alive on taxes for taking it out too soon.

Go talk to a competent financial adviser before you do anything rash.

[rzemanfl]

21. Fuck the taxes, I will just ask for a government bailout. n/t

[elleng]

22. Know when to HOLD.

(I'm 63.)

[Hubert Flottz]

25. Start eating the local repubs when you run out of beef!

The more toothsome younger tender ones might not be so bad, if you wash them real good in Clorox and they're already pre-marinated in plenty of Jim Jones Kool-Aid.

You might want to garnish with a sprig of lipstick...

The flockkkers that are still running around will just think their missing fellow pubb-0-cattle have all been raptured.

Some of the Donners claimed that they never did outgrow their strange cravings back in the day.

[KamaAina]

26. Pork. The other white meat.

:puke:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Follow your own inclinations, but nobody is going to fix the mess.

Certainly not the politicians who are so able to spend money and then panic when the bills come due. And, the capitalists will only find some way to profit from it.

The elevator is going down only and the only question is how speedily it does so.

[Greyhound]

28. Have you considered taking that small pile 'o cash and getting the hell out of the country?

I'm not sure of course, but what is coming is going to be really ugly, do you really want to be here to see it?

Another thing is that getting out would let you convert the $$ you have into a currency with a longer shelf life.

[rzemanfl]

31. Can't do that, I would if I were young though. n/t

[Greyhound]

34. We're not that far behind you,

(sans cash, now) and that is our course. Of course we have no kids, so we're basically waiting for our beloved dogs to cross the bridge.

I've got too many relatives that have seen this happen in smaller countries and have no desire to see it first hand.

Good luck to us all, we're going to need every bit of it.

[searchingforlight]

30. FDR did it and so did Bill Clinton - though no quite as dramatic a change as FDR

It will be a rocky time but there is an old belief that says if you take away everything and then give back something, even if it is not everything, people will feel they have gained. Recovery is all in how it is defined.

I would leave my retirement where it is. Everything is too volatile now. You will be paying a lot more for things that may come down a little when the economy stabilizes. Believe me every dime will count when you do decide to retire. Bide your time, you have good working years left and the pendulum will swing.

[rzemanfl]

32. I am sure that somewhere in Germany in the 1920's someone

was being told the same thing and ended up with a pile of money that wouldn't buy a loaf of bread. I think we are truly in uncharted territory here.

My grandfather took a then huge amount of money (I think $3,000 something) out of the bank to pay for his new Hudson the day before the bank failed.

[Naturalist]

36. Think!!!!

Take your money out and buy some land. Hire some illegals to grow food for you and tend to your livestock. That is the only way to be safe. Money was worthless after the Depression unless you had lots of it.

[Odin2005]

37. Obama needs to raise taxes on the Rich and start up WPA-like public works projects...

...to give people jobs, support the demand side of the economy, and build a Green national infrastructure.

[Mari3333]

38. I deeply empathize with you

I also have retirement monies currently in bonds and mutual funds. I am almost 58, and I am sitting real tight right now. so cheap I could squeak. I want to leave the bulk of it to my kids, and use what little income it generates to help me survive. I am not going to panic, I will just cut back even more, which is a LOT. I think of this as a roller coaster ride, and right now the robber barons are having their chickens come home to roost. I will try to see the silver lining no matter what.
Hey, if you want to spend your money on things you want, go for it. I am just happy I could buy some pinto beans today and make a pot of stew today.
I am truly truly glad I have , maybe, 20 yrs left in this physical world, because, to be totally honest with ya, I will be glad when this little drama is finis. This world is toooo f&cking crazy.
:)

[cobalt1999]

39. Sell everything, buy a sailboat and go.

It'll be your home and transportation. Fish for your meat. Go where you want.

I'd do it tomorrow except for the kids.

[rzemanfl]

44. Kids and grandchildren are my reasons. n/t

[pitohui]

41. think of it this way

if names like katrina, rita, wilma, and ike haven't convinced you of the folly of buying things, if names like the cedar fire haven't convinced you, if the wholesale flooding of the midwest (not being from the midwest i don't know the name but i saw it from overhead and it looked pretty plug ugly), if the tsunami and the fact that the oceans are starting to creep onto the land hasn't convinced you of the folly of buying "things" i don't know what will

what if you decide to buy a bunch of "things" and tomorrow you have a house fire?

what if you decide to cash out and you are quietly added to an armed robber's list of houses to hit (a routine occurrence in my part of the world and don't think your small stash is too small to interest an armed robber, one of my friends was left for dead over three hundred frickin' dollars)

we have banks because, sadly, putting our money in "things" don't work, things are heavy, things get flooded out, when there's an earthquake the things fall on you and hurt your head

maybe you should put your retirement acct in something more conservative, such as treasuries but no, just cashing out and hoping you die before the toys you buy are eaten by the storms, fires, robbers etc. is not a plan for a happy old age

i'm not going to tell you how obama will save the world, what i will point out is that NO ONE predicted FDR would save the world before he quietly did it, NO ONE predicted bill clinton would save the world before he quietly did it

[tigereye]

42. I would think there would be some controls since the Govt is taking

control of all these systems...


I wouldn't blow your stake, unless you plan to buy gold or something... panic is always a bad response esp. when you don't know exactly how things are going to play out.

[rzemanfl]

46. Our government is a band of muggers in nice suits. n/t

[tigereye]

47. problem is when all the muggers (govt or financial) start to look alike

I just hate when everyone reacts AFTER the horse has already left the barn...