Facts about Bio safety Level Four labs

[TZ]

So, there has been a lot of discussion about these labs with the anthrax case and now the labs in Galveston. Having actually BEEN inside Detrick and seen the suites, and knowing several people who worked there, and having worked at a company that had employees at Detrick (USAMRIID) I think I need to clear up alot of the myths floating around here.
First of all, all these labs are specially constructed and engineered with special filters and flows and air intakes..They are AIRTIGHT. The agents are kept in locked and secured heavy duty freezers..They are worked with in special containment biological cabinets (hoods) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow_cabinet. The buildings have to meet strict building codes..including I'm sure in Galveston the ability to withstand hurricanes.

Of course lab workers wear the bubble suits with air hoses:http://www.imageenvision.com/stock_photo/details/0004-0704-0519-1227

At Detrick if there is ANY question of possible contamination..the lab worker is put in what is known as "the slammer" a sophisticated isolation/quarantine suite and are kept there for as much as a week.

As for locations of these labs...they aren't randomly or lightly chosen..away from populated areas would be preferable but is not always possible. As I said elsewhere, when Ft. Detrick was originally built the area was pretty isolated. Gradually Frederick grew up around it. Moving these dangerous substances any distance is HIGHLY risky and therefore not undertaken unless necessary.
The CDC has a Level 4 lab..and they are located in Atlanta.
Anyone who thinks that researchers and those in charge don't take safety precautions seriously are not familiar with this area. Nobody wants to work in an environment where their life is in extreme danger. The people who work in these environments are highly skilled professionals..and hard to replace.
As for the research..most of what goes on in these labs are disease research..Not "weapons of mass destruction" labs. Things like a possible vaccine for Ebola have been developed in this lab. Research on deadly diseases like Rift Valley Fever, various Encephalitis virus and Hantaa virus are performed here. Those most of these exotics are problems in other countries, most are too poor to do the research on them. Hantaa virus on the other hand occurs in wild MICE and a deadly outbreak in Arizona a few years ago was caused by mice.
Anyway, thats what these labs are about. Are they highly secured? Yes,of course. But as for all this "secret weapons development" crap..thats bullshit..I've worked on bio defense projects on and off for years and most of it is pretty open actually. I've never even had to have more than a routine drug test/health screen to do these jobs.
Anyway, this is my attempt to educate about these labs.

[stray cat]

1. I also have experience with these facilities and appreciate you setting the record straight

[ColbertWatcher]

2. Facts about the incompetence of the morans currently occupying the White House ...

... #1 a PDB entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within The United States" is presented.

Result? Ignored, dismissed, minimized. Oh and an attack on September 11th.

#2 a hurricane is bearing down on the largest port in America. Computer simulation performed no less than a month prior shows impending doom. Warnings from experts about levee failures.

Result? "disaster opportunity" and that whole thing about thousands of people dying.

#3 Mad cow discovered in some cattle in the United States.

Result? Prevent companies from testing all beef.

#4 Dozens of examples of food contamination, from e.coli in spinach to salmonella in jalapenos.

Result? Cut funding for FDA, and testing at ports.

#5 Countless warnings about financial disaster from American history as well as a history of laws passed designed to prevent further disasters from occurring.

Result? What you're seeing this past week (year?) on Wall Street.

#6 No connection between one country and threats against the United States.

Result? Thousands of Americans killed and wounded, millions of Iraqis dead and wounded, and an ever increasing drain on resources (money and equipment) that is spiraling out of control.

That's all I could come up with off the top of my head. I know there's more.

[TZ]

6. The people in charge of these facilities are LONG TIME

Scientists and professionals that have been in their positions for MORE THAN EIGHT years. Do you think scientists magically went brain dead eight years ago?
Just like the scientists on the FDA advisory panels are long time scientists and professionals not politicians. When did it become a fact that anyone who works for the govt must be a Bush Stooge? Most scientists are rabidly anti-Bush.
Politicians are not scientists and vice versa..and its the scientists who are running the show in these facilities, not the politicians.

[alarimer]

12. The people that run those labs are not political appointees.

and that is true of CDC, UFWS, etc., as well. They are career biologists, scientists, etc. As a current state government employee I resent the implication that we are all incompetent or politically driven.

[Orsino]

14. Yep. Even "airtight" security begins to erode once political appointees...

...chosen for loyalty rather than competence are put in charge. Anyone remotely familiar with security knows that it's only as good as its weakest point.

Fortunately, I don't think the * Administration cares much about the CDC's or similar biohazard facilities.

[readmoreoften]

3. I'm sure they're state of the art but any idea how long the bank-up generators last?

It's hard to fault anyone for questioning the security of these facilities, considering the military itself accidentally loaded nukes onto a plane last year despite the security protocols, not to imagine the lax attitude towards other aspects of crucil infrastructure (levels, adequate sea walls, 1-35 bridges, etc.)

And there are certainly "secret" weapons being developed, if by "secret" weapons one means "designed beyond the eye of the public and Congress." We have an enormous black operations budget and it is absolutely impossible to know what they are doing. This is undeniable public knowledge. However, if by "secret" one means "designed beyond the eye of the Pentagon and the Executive Branch" that very well may not be true.

[TZ]

4. Those generators last ALONG TIME..they are HUGE.

I've dealt with back up generators in normal scientific facilities. And so much of the containment is PHYSICAL CONTAINMENT...not dependent on electricity actually.
Security in these places has DRASTICALLY increased since 9/11..AND most of the people in charge of these security are the PhD's and other scientists..Buerocrats make some decisions, but the scientists have alot of input.

[readmoreoften]

9. That's good to know. Just concerned about the effect of heat on cultures (w/o air control, etc.)

I wasn't forseeing a doomsday scenario down there, but I was wondering if the lab effected a standard protocol quarantine for dealing with any and all distaster on the island. It seems to me that if there were even a one in ten million chance of instability, the protocol might be to isolate the area until the situation could be accounted for. I also thought this would be a good reason for silence on the matter as the media could not handle reporting such a protocol with even a modicom of responsibility. Then I heard there were FEMA folks on Bolivar and I figured nothing had happened for sure.

I don't trust PhDs anyone than anyone else though (having a PhD myself.)

[EFerrari]

5. Imho, what needs to be pushed on are the comflicting stories.

FEMA (BushCo felon enablers) say the material was destroyed.

The lab personnel say the material was secured.

Which is it?

[TZ]

7. I would trust the lab personnel

That the material was secured. I know how they keep that material. It would be difficult for this hurricane to have destroyed that material. Flooding might have ruined or damaged certain equipment, but destroying this stuff is very difficult. High intense temperatures needed..autoclaving temperatures.

[EFerrari]

8. I agree because people on site who care about their work

and their jobs are more reliable than FEMA.

But, the rift is important insofar as there is no oversight. That's dangerous.

[readmoreoften]

10. Destroyed in what way? Intentionally for safety's sake? Or accidentally, god forbid.

I would assume the material is secured 24/7 regardless.

[EFerrari]

11. Intentionally destroyed -- pre-emptively.

And after all my reading for the anthrax case, we can't assume any of this material is secured. That just isn't what happens.

It seems as though in most of those facilities, an academic mindset takes over. People expect other people to do the right thing with a minimum of oversight. That's fine for Austen but not great for anthrax.

[beam me up scottie]

13. K&R!

Thank you for setting the record straight, the last thing residents need is rumor-mongering and paranoid speculation.
:thumbsup: