Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

UPDATE: More on abandoned dogs left to drown story from Houston Chronicle..

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:04 PM
Original message
UPDATE: More on abandoned dogs left to drown story from Houston Chronicle..
I contacted the photographer by phone this evening (credit to the person who found her website and phone for me) and spoke with her.

She said that they did not try to personally rescue the dogs because one was a pit bull and they were afraid of it. She said she did call the San Leon fire department and they just cut the lock off the fence and let the dogs run out the fence.

Apparently there are three dogs, the pit bull, a mutt, and a chihuahua. She did not know what happened to them but believes the chihuahua probably has drowned or will drown in the storm. She gave me an approximate location:

"In San Leon on 517 (I am assuming Texas 517) behind an Asian gas station near a row of mail boxes".

She said PETA is sending a crew out to try and rescue the dogs but I really doubt they can do anything right now with the storm about to hit.

The location description is not too useful if you aren't from the area.. Can anyone fill in the blanks for me and give a street address or approximate street address?

Right now I'm on hold with the San Leon P.D. and they are supposed to be checking but I've already been on hold for 11 minutes and it is probably impossible for them to get back to me tonight with the storm.

Anyone else have any good ideas?

Doug D.
Orlando, FL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. You'd think she could have at least grabbed the chihuahua
Edited on Fri Sep-12-08 08:07 PM by Oregonian
Fuck.

:banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. It was behind the pit bull according to her...
She didn't want to have to paddle the canoe home with one arm I guess...

She has dogs herself, I heard them bark while we talked...she even had a chihuahua.

Doug D.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Even Chihuahuas can get nasty.
I'm one of just a handful that can pick one up belonging to a friend in the rescue without getting ferocious or biting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Been bitten by chihuahua years ago
and I am usually good with dogs. I also had a small poodle that bit any one not in the family, that was also years ago. Do not deal with pit bulls. My lab mixes look mean at times but have never bitten anyone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. They can bite but it's usually not as bad as a cat bite...
I've had one draw blood but it's not as bad as a cat bite or claw..

On the other hand pit bulls scare the crap out of me. They could rip my arm off and walk around with it as a chew toy while I bleed out...

Dogs that scare me:

Shepherds
Pit Bulls
Dobermanns
Russian Wolf Hounds
Wolf-Dog hybrids

Doug D.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Yeah, the bite was not bad.
And bit bulls scare me just because of the jaws locking thing.

Your list would probably be my list also, but add a mean/aggressive great dane. We had a neighbor with several of them, but the male was the one that was highly aggressive. Sometimes when I would take my dog out, he would break free from his pen and run over to attack her. One day my son was putting our dog in the car and he did this. It scared my son to death because he was not expecting it. We always managed to get him off her and somehow get our dog inside or to safety. That was eight years ago and my dog still hates/fears big dogs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
52. The "jaw locking thing" is an urban legend. No such thing.
Yes, big dogs bite big and small dogs bite small, but there is no "jaws locking thing" beyond an urban legend, or myth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Hey, I had a chihuahua lock onto my arm when I was three
Some of those dogs bite you and don't let go readily.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Some dogs don't let go readily, but the pit bull jaws lock is untrue.
Same jaws as any dog. OK, bigger than a chihuahua, but their jaws don't lock.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. yes, you are correct.
The jaw locking is a very common myth. I still don't want to be bitten by one, or any other dog for that matter.

I met a young man the other day walking his pit in front of our house and it was trying its best to get to my dogs. He explained that they had three other pit bulls and this was the only one that was aggessive to other dogs. He said they had to watch it because it would attack their other dogs. What was funny is that my dogs will usually go crazy barking at other dogs, but with this one they just stood quietly watching it. It was if they knew it was dangerous.

BTW, I watch animal police on the animal planet, and always get angry at them when they kill the dogs just because they are pits. I don't believe all dogs of any breed are bad, or that every dog of any breed are always well behaved. Just like people there are good and bad in all groups. There is just a better chance of the dogs being good.
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm not going to say anything about Sarah Palin,
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not! I hope those poor pups will be rescued before it's too late.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. What kind of frackin idiots just leave their dogs behind?
And I don't want to hear any of this "Oh, their too poor and can't afford to evacuate their dogs" crap. If you can't afford to take care of your pets, you should not have them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Agreed!
x( If you can't afford to take care of your pets, you should not have them.

They depend on you, no matter what the circumstance! :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. It seems you've done all a person can under the circumstances -
God bless you for that.

The owners of those dogs should be horse whipped to near death.

I volunteer to administer the punishment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. WOW! You are an incredibly good person! A chihuahua, too?
I am glad they were at least let out of the fence.

Maybe some kind person took them. We can only hope.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. No I didn't do anything but make some calls long after the story was on the web.
the PHOTOGRAPHER called the Fire Department.

IMHO: The FD really screwed up by not bringing in Animal Services to bring the dogs to safety but I don't know what their protocols are for hurricanes, maybe this is a problem they consider to be "in the noise" and they had something more important to do???

Doug D.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. You get the good karma award for the day. Nice person.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Thanks..aw shucks..now I'm blushin'
It wasn't really much folks...

Doug D.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. At least somebody tried to do SOMETHING.
Thanks for the update. I worry so about the furry critters, pets and wild, in situations like this. They are completely helpless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. When I read "pitt bull" I thought...
...maybe they left the dogs to protect the property if they left before they knew how bad this hit was gonna be, but then I read chihuahua and I thought "so much for the security angle." Sure would like to know what the situation was ... can't imagine doing this. Thanks for getting the additional info.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Where could the dogs possibly run that would be any safer than the yard?
Is there any possibility they'd survive?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. It's possible but it would seem unlikely..especially the chi...
The dogs may be able to swim some but unless you're a dolphin or a air sea rescue swimmer or a Navy Seal or something, I don't think your chances are very good. They might find high ground or the roof of a building or something who knows...

Anyways it doesn't sound good and they really won't be able to do much about it tonight...

Doug D.
Orlando, FL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. I heartily applaud your efforts.
I sincerely wish for their rescue and thank you for all of the avenues that you have pursued. May the karmic force pay you back tenfold.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arthritisR_US Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. I'm with you! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. You're Incredible!
Edited on Fri Sep-12-08 08:11 PM by liberalmuse
I hadn't even thought of calling or anything, but I'm glad you did. :( At least the locks were cut. They may have a chance. Why do people leave their pets??? I guess some didn't have a choice, but to lock them up so they just drown? I'm way up in Washington and don't know anyone down in Houston. This breaks my heart. Bless you for caring, and doing something about it! I wish I were more like you. I wish everyone were.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. All I did was some internet research and place a few phone calls..
it's hardly "incredible"..

thanks though..

Doug D.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. No, you really are incredible.
Out of everyone who was upset, you did something. You know how rare that is? I didn't even get as far as thinking to do something, except cry and hate people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
morillon Donating Member (809 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. You are awesome, Doug!
May the gods bless you for being so persistent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Not really..it's just a little internet research and a few phone calls..
thanks though..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. ...
:yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Police have no info...

I just got off the phone with the San Leon PD and they have no answers and said to call back in a couple of days after the storm.

Anyways, I hope the local PETA crew found the dogs before it was too late...

Does anyone have any PETA contacts?

Doug D.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. "PETA is sending a crew out "
Edited on Fri Sep-12-08 08:16 PM by flvegan
How often do I read here on DU how worthless they are and how they really don't care about animals.

After Katrina, PETA was out with boats and crowbars rescuing animals.

I don't give them hope tonight, but they'll be first responders for the animals and bless them for it.

Thanks for the update and making that call.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. I was one of those folks. I don't work for PETA anymore but I can tell you what likely will happen
They will put a call out to volunteers or to the local PD and get someone out there. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have someone around the area ready to be alerted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Considering their network
I'm sure they do. Likely folks are planning a trip from HQ to the Galveston area.

By the way, much respect for your work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #40
49. Thanks! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rubberducky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bless your marshmallow heart. You are indeed very special for caring so much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
22. Fucking people! What in the hell! Dogs are family! Why would they do this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. I have been told many times that it is a cultural thing
that only some of us think of them as family, that most think of them strictly as property. I would not leave any breathing thing behind. If I had a gold fish, I would be carrying that fish bowl with me where ever I went, or I wouldn't go. I'm old, I'm stubborn and my dogs are old ladies too. They have about killed me a couple of times, pulling me down steps or otherwise making me fall when they see a cat/squirrel/bird or other being they cannot catch, but it is man's law that keeps them on a leash not theirs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. I'm with you rwac!
I'd evacuate the packrats if I could!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
60. Sadly, not to ALL people..
there ARE people who consider a dog, not much more than a possession..like a stereo or a chair..
They get the kids a cute puppy, but after the dog gets grown up, they just toss it outdoors and feed it now and then..

that's why the pounds are so full of grown dogs:(

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari3333 Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. thank you
you are an angel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
25. I would at least let the dogs out of the yard so they
would have a chance to escape flooded areas. There is a post in the Pets Group from someone who recently had to drive for several hours to get away from Hurricane Gustav with many pets in the car (including birds) and it is difficult when you don't exactly know where you are going. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=243&topic_id=36095&mesg_id=36095

You set off driving "away" and the travelling is much slower than normal- it might take you hours to even find a place which allows pets. Or you might not find one at all. Or they might not allow more than one. So- I can think of reasons why someone might not take 3 dogs. Maybe you only want to take one vehicle and you have 3 children. I would never leave a pet behind, I would rather let him run free than know he could starve or drown.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. (((((((Doug)))))) bright blessings for your efforts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
29. Thank you for your kind and generous heart
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. k&r
My faith in humankind is almost restored by people like you, the photographer, the police, firemen and PETA members who are trying to help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari3333 Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
33. Thanks, Doug. People like these really piss me off.
If you can't take care of your pets, don't have them.

I have a chihuahua mix myself and would NEVER EVER leave him behind. When we lived in Oklahoma and we had tornado warnings, I refused to go to the shelter because they wouldn't allow pets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. All the people here take their pets to the university's
parking garage when there is a tornado warning. Don't know how safe it is, but since we all did it I felt there was safety in numbers. People all get out of their vehicles and walk their animals around until the warning is over.

Now I live too far away to do it, but the house I live in was built in 1905, so I figure if it has lasted this long it will last a few more years. Ignorance is bliss. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. We moved away from tornado alley in '04 and now live in Northern California
I am so glad that we don't have to deal with tornado warnings anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. They don't bother me that much but
never been hit by a tornado. Had some go over and some come close but none had me on target. Since I am not afraid of them, one will probably get me now if the heart failure or the cancer don't. I feel like I'm in a race for the ending. ;)

Please :nopity: I laugh at what can't be controled, and get angry at what can be but does not seem to be done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
34. So they know the address of the house? - File animal cruelty charges.
I believe it's a felony in Texas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Perhaps the PD or FD does but they are just as guilty
for turning the dogs loose rather than taking them out of there so don't count on the local gov't pressing charges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
35. Sad. People are pathetic.
Edited on Fri Sep-12-08 09:13 PM by roamer65
You'd think the owners would at least have had the decency to just let the dogs out so they had a fighting chance to survive. Not even one little ounce of decency.

Padlocked in, Jesus H. Christ. Pathetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. bless you for your diligence and kindness.
You made me cry.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
50. Dog bless you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #50
57. Cute!
:) Thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
51. Thank you for everything you did.
Whether or not you can help them, you did everything you could - and much much more than most people would have done. Thank you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
53. I hope someone is getting the cats out too
as well as the dogs.I live in maryland and can't drive I wish I could help.Glad you got them help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
58. I emailed AP with a message to the photographer

I didn't hear back, so I'm glad you did this. It's bittersweet news though. While I'm glad
they were freed from the yard, I fear their chances of survival are slim. Plus the idea of
the dogs having to deal with the raging storm is heartbreaking.

Those looked like nice dogs, even the Pit-Boxer mix. The fire dept. really should have
taken them in, or at least brought them to a shelter.

These people should be charged with animal cruelty and ordered to never own an
animal again. There are no excuses for this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MMINNC Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
59. E-mail from photographer
I saw the same picture on Fox News online in an interview with a man from the Animal Defense League. I e-mailed them yesterday and the lady who replied said FOX just put that picture in, they had not actully rescued those dogs.

This morning I saw the same dogs, different picture, different photographer, so I e-mailed her. Tonight I received an e-mail from her that she had checked on the dogs and they had all made it !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC