What are valid college/university degrees at D.U.?

[JustAnotherGen]

Does what one does for a living matter?

I'm kind of thinking that only certain degrees are 'valid' and only people who get dirt under their fingernails for a living matter.

Am I incorrect in this assessment?

Do people who hold Mass Communications and Political Science degrees with a Minor in Theater from Niagara University not count? I'm interested. Seriously. Are our opinions invalidated? What about those of us who have modeled in the past? Are we just dumb broads at D.U.? And those of us that did a pageant or two for the Scholarship money? Are we just stupid brainless 'girls'?

I'm interested.

And I'm really 'getting' what Naomi Wolf wrote in The Beauty Myth all of those years ago. This is IT exactly. Read it if you haven't. Mine is a bit dog eared, but a college professor of mine made it required reading for Images of Women in The Media many years ago. I'm thinking it's very relevant these days.

[poverlay]

1. Who ever said any degrees were "invalid", or that models were "dumb broads"? n/t

[ddeclue]

2. Bachelor of Aerospace Engineering, Georgia Tech, Class of '89

Certificate in American Literature
Certificate in Band

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. Any from an accredited college, as far as I am concerned.

Though as an electrical engineer, I do hold in scorn mechanical and industrial engineers. An business majors. :P

Seriously, though, any degree from an accredited school is a-okay.

Gotta go with whatever your passion is - as long as someone is following that, they're fine in my book as well. Unless their passion is genocide, professional racism, or beating people up.

[ddeclue]

7. The joke used to go...

AE
ME
IE
IM
I'm out! Gone to UGA!

:rofl:

[Critters2]

23. Any opinion on agricultural engineers?

Most of the men in my family challenge you to an engineering duel! Can YOU design a combine? Huh, can ya? :)

[Ikonoklast]

37. No, I can't.

But, I can operate one.

And do maintenance on one in places the damn design engineers never thought a human hand had to reach!





:P

[Critters2]

72. Oh, the stories my dad could tell about people who reached into places

engineers thought they couldn't--or shouldn't. And the number of surgeries they needed to reattach parts! (For a while, my dad designed augers. Some of those stories were awful, really. There's a reason those safety shields are there!)

The first church I served that had a photocopier was a tiny little congregation, surrounded by corn and bean fields. People would come in and ask to make copies. I used to get quite the chuckle from farmers who'd come in and be nervous about using this device--and insist I do it--after they'd spent all day on a machine that could kill 'em if they weren't careful, and had hundreds more moving parts than this little copier. It handed me quite the laugh.

[ddeclue]

82. Achtung! Das machine is nicht fur der fingerpoken und mittengraben...

Achtung!

Alles touristen und non-technishen looken peepers! Das machine is nicht
fur der fingerpoken und mittengrabben. Is easy schnappen der springen-
werk, blowenfusen und popencorken mit spitzen sparken. Das machine is
diggen by experten only. Is nicht fur gerwerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen das cottenpiken hands in das pockets.
Relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights

[Critters2]

84. Looken peepers! Das blinkenlights!

:rofl:

[Rabrrrrrr]

43. I could not design one. But I could totally fuck up its electrical system.

So nyah.

Combine design, by the way, would be more of a mechanical engineer's job than an agricultural engineer's. Though the Ag would certainly be the one deciding on the specs, in terms of what gets kept and what gets thrown away from the wheat, corn, etc.

And the sniveling little mechanical engineer fuck has to bow down and ask the electrical engineers to make it actually work. Bwhahahahahahaha!! Sometimes we say, "NO!" because we are cruel, and represent the dark side of engineering.

[Critters2]

71. And actually, my dad is an ag engineer specializing in ag mechanization.

So, he's kind of a mechanical engineer.

Yet another of my cousins (well, a cousin's kid) just started at Purdue studying agricultural mechanization. Whaddaya bet he goes on to a master's in ag engineering? It's a genetic defect, apparently.

[A HERETIC I AM]

73. "Because we are cruel, and represent the dark side of engineering."

:spray: :rofl:

[Rabrrrrrr]

90. It's true, though.

:evilgrin:

[ddeclue]

48. Yeah but it would look like a crop duster!

:rofl:

[UndertheOcean]

49. Industrial Engineers always struck me as dumb

(I surely jest.... )

[PVnRT]

68. Can't spell geek without EE

Elements of electrical engineering was the worst class ever. Eight weeks of circuit design. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[VeraAgnes]

4. I have a degree

and am a Community Activist.O8)

[glowing]

5. I think the point is that she's not qualified for Presidency... I would say people ought to

stick to the experience, rather than the college.. At least she finished high school and college.

[Ashy Larry]

6. It depends. Do you plan on running for Vice President?

[JustAnotherGen]

10. I plan on running for the NJ State Legislature

All Politics is Local

[Ashy Larry]

17. In that case your credentials are more than sufficient.

I don't think the NJ legislature involves controlling a large nuclear arsenal. Good luck.

[JVS]

66. Where can I major in controlling a large nuclear arsenal?

[Freddie Stubbs]

96. National War College?

http://www.ndu.edu/nwc/

[lutefisk]

28. Possibly over-qualified. They might call you an egghead. It's all relative...n/t

[LostinVA]

135. Oh brother

[Tallison]

8. It's all relative to your career ambitions

and, yeah, I think a bachelor's-level education and a major like journalism or RCS are insufficient for the MVP of elected office. :shrug:

[HereSince1628]

9. Actually, all degrees from accredited institutions are valid on DU

There is currently a problem with POSTERS, not with DU, who want to drop bombs on Sarah Palin with no thought of local collateral damage to fellow DUers.

There are lots of DUers here who are uncomfortable with errant strikes caused by this topic.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. Thanks - just checking

FWIW - Sarah Palin is not qualified to do my job either.

[HereSince1628]

14. Nor mine. Although the Pope believes in creation I doubt Sarah

the creationist would be allowed to teach Biology, even at a school of last resort.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

105. Who accredits the accreditors?

Politic$ plays a far too important role in doling out accreditation!

(1628? How have you managed to live so long?)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small."
--Henry Kissinger

[HereSince1628]

117. How have I lasted? Very good genes and a healthy diet

with a high alcohol content!

:rofl:

[asteroid2003QQ47]

118. You're sorely lacking in empirical evidence,...

get back to me in ten thousand years and we'll compare notes.
'Course some 94% of the human population is non-white so what's
the odds?

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

12. I have degrees in Generic Engineering and Reverse Engineering

:hi:

[TahitiNut]

13. We all wear a degree on one shoulder and a chip on the other.

I guess it all depends on WHICH IS BIGGER?

:eyes:

[HereSince1628]

16. !! That's recyclable!

That one gets a bookmark.

[TahitiNut]

44. Thank you.

[Apollo11]

15. Interesting fact

John Major, Prime Minister of the UK from 1990 to 1997, left school at age 16 and never attended college. In the election of April 1992, John Major's party won over 14 million votes, the highest popular vote recorded by a British PM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Major

[Thothmes]

21. President Harry S. Truman did not attend college

On edit, George Bush did attend college. Guess that a degree by itself has almost no value, it's the abilities of the Individual holding the degree that really counts. JMO

[ddeclue]

51. However Truman was well read and knew the classics!

If you've read the McCullough biography you would know even though he had no college education, that Truman was fluent in Latin and had read all the classics (writings like Cicero's orations, etc.)

Truman also had the experience of leading an artillery company in WWI and had a long record of government service beginning at the county government level, then as US Senator from MO and then as a Veep before becoming President.

Truman had a world of experience and was far better qualified than either W or Palin to be President or Veep.

Doug D.

[Thothmes]

89. I have read his bio.

Imminently qualified to become the Presient of the United States. You might add he is far better qualified than Obama to be President of VP.

[melody]

18. Yeah, I wasted a lot of time in school

That said, there are DU'ers who won't believe information given to them even if you are informed in the field.

[rebel with a cause]

34. there are DUers who just like to argue

and try to make other DUers admit that they are the smartest of them all. :9

[melody]

39. Well, this is a forum for discussion so I have no problems with debate

The only truly smart people are the ones who realize how little any of us really know.

But if somebody has a frickin' degree in something (as happened to happy who is a child psychologist and was shouted down by a herd of people who "just felt that way"), they should at least be listened to.

BTW, I know about half of Jimmy's family. One of my first published books was on him.

[rebel with a cause]

58. I was not talking about debate.

I actually meant people who discount what others say and insinuate that others are stupid. Debate is good, put downs are not. Put downs should be reserved for people who are attacking our candidates. And I agree that the only truly smart people are those that realize that there is always going to be someone who knows more and there is always going to be someone who disagrees with you.

BTW, who is Jimmy? I am going to have to reread this thread to see if there is a Jimmy mentioned. :rofl:

[melody]

62. I insinuate that trolls are trolls all the time

Is that okay or are they only allowed to blast one way? :rofl:

Sorry, I thought you would know the provenance of your member name. "Rebel with a Cause" is clearly based on
"Rebel without a Cause" which was a term popularized by the film "Rebel without a Cause" (it took its title
from a non-fiction book by the same name by Bob Lindner). The film starred James Dean (thus, Jimmy) and he was
the primary reason for the popularization of the term.

[rebel with a cause]

69. Senior moment on my part.

I think of James Dean as James Dean since I do not know any of his family. ;) I, of course, know his movie and was in love with him as a teen even if he was long dead. My father would not let me watch the movie on tv, because every time I watched it I would start crying. So I was an adult before I ever saw the movie all the way through, and by that time had become obsessed with it. Hence the readiness to steal from the title for my own purposes. ;)

[melody]

78. Ah, good on you then

Jimmy is still very fondly remembered by his many, many cousins all around Fairmount, Indiana (most good Democrats, btw :)

[rebel with a cause]

83. I just reread our posts

and realize that maybe I came across wrong in post 34. I meant to be agreeing with you in what you were saying, but the way I said it, it came across a little snarky. Sorry for that. Today was not the best of days for me, but then seldom of them are anymore. :cry: :nopity: :)

Glad to hear that Jimmy's cousins still fondly remember him (and that they are mostly democrats). My daughter told me the other day that the only reason she ever watched his movies was because of him. Especially "Giant", which she said she did not like but his performance made it worth watching for her. It has become a generational crossing thing with us. My stories about watching him influenced her interest and now she has her own opinion on him. Okay, what I am trying to say is that he perhaps lives on through those who remember him.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

122. Senior moment. SENIOR MOMENT!? You're...

just a kid! I was 14 when Dean died in his Porsche!

[kestrel91316]

19. Do you need us to call the wahhhhhhmbulance for you?

A beauty pageant is not any sort of qualification for anything other than more beauty pageants, AFAIAC. They are demeaning and degrading to women and serve only to reinforce the "beauty is everything" stereotype.

A communications degree served Little Sarah Smartass rather poorly, as it appears not to have taught her any critical thinking skills, or even that the Pledge of Allegiance was NOT handed down from the Founding Fathers. Working as a sportscaster is fluff. Paying PTA dues is fluff. Birthing five children is fluff. Serving as "mayor" in a town of 7000 that she actually hired a city manager to run FOR HER is fluff. 18 months of a governorship wherein she spent the lion's share of her time attacking her perceived enemies is also fluff. She is completely unqualified. I wouldn't hire her here at entry level.

I'm gonna call Palin a "dumb broad", as you yourself put it, but that's my preogative as another woman. And yes, I have her trumped twice in the education department: BS in Microbiology, Colorado State University. DVM, Colorado State University.

[JustAnotherGen]

20. Nope

But I'm surround by White Republican Men all day long (pretty much everyone that works for me) that value my ability to make money and grow profit.

Just saying . . .

[TransitJohn]

22. Oh a sheep are ya?

Go Pokes! :hide:

[JustAnotherGen]

26. Nope

Die hard Dem. I'll die a Dem. I'll die a Liberal. You have a better chance in meeting God (if you believe in that B.S.) in the next five minutes than you EVER will see me vote for a Republican. :rofl: Are you kidding me? :rofl:


The point of the book the Beauty Myth was that do whatever it takes to get ahead. If that means one degree/career path that will get you through this bullshit planet - then do it. Be a machiavelli. Do whatever it takes.

The same woman that wrote that has given us the gift: The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot


A few choice quotes from other writings:

"The beauty myth moves for men as a mirage; its power lies in its ever-receding nature. When the gap is closed, the lover embraces only his own disillusion."

"Women have face-lifts in a society in which women without them appear to vanish from sight."

'Beauty' is a currency system like the gold standard. Like any economy, it is determined by politics, and in the modern age in the West is is the last, best belief system that keeps male dominance intact.

Western women have been controlled by ideals and stereotypes as much as by material constraints.

[TransitJohn]

45. I think you

missed my reference to the other poster's alma mater. Why are you replying to my reply to someone else?

On edit: figured out what was going on.

[readmoreoften]

24. Well if you interpret the words "working class" to mean blue collar then you are incorrect.

A college degree doesn't mean shit. Every single person my partner works with at Starbucks has a Bachelor's degree. The majority of people at DU have college degrees, many have advanced degrees. That means nothing.

Working class means that you work for a living. Most work today requires advanced training. Most working class people have college degrees and a shit load of debt. And most earn low wages comparable to 30 years ago.

Working class does not mean "poor people" and it is not short-hand for "poor, angry, white people." Although the majority of Americans are white, work, don't earn enough to survive and have every right to be pissed about it.

Capitalists and "the rich" are not doctors (100K in debt from school) or the guy down the street who has a good job at the bank and calls himself a "capitalist" and owns 10,000 shares of penny stocks.

"The richest 1% of adults owned 40% of the world’s total assets in the year 2000. The richest 10% of adults accounted for 85% of total assets. The bottom half of the world adult population owned 1% of global wealth." (Source: World Institute for Development Economics Research, The World Distribution of Household Wealth, 2006).

What we can deduce from this is that in the year 2000 C.E. (or 1 B.B.--Before Bush)

The top 1% owned 40% of the worlds wealth
The top 2-10% owned 45% of the worlds wealth
The middle 51%-89% only shared 14% of the worlds wealth. (And I would bet that it is the top 11%-20% who own 12 of this 14%.)
And the other 50% of humans on this planet shared 1% of the planet's wealth.


If you had to be in a beauty pageant for a scholarship, chances are you aren't in the top 1%. In fact you're probably not in the top 10%. And a degree in mass communications and poli sci will solidly put you in the working classes, unless you marry a rich man.

[JustAnotherGen]

36. I disagree

35, never married, no kids. First woman in my Mother's family (whites) to earn a degree. Just par for the course in my dad's family (black/white/native side) to earn a degree.

Work in Telecom in Global Marketing ops.

And I make depending on bonus about 300K a year.


And I did it with kow towing or bowing down to a fucking worthless piece of shit maaaaaaaaaaaaan! :rofl: If anything - I'm dodging Gold Diggers honey! :rofl:

It takes a degree.
That gets you in the door.
It takes 60-80 hour weeks.
It takes a willingness to travel overseas the minute they let up the 'no fly' after 9/11.
It takes sacrificing personal relationships, and playing games you hate (Golf). But you do it to WIN!
When your father has heart surgery - you aren't there. Because you KNOW as a veteran he has zero worth in his country's eyes - and thus . . . if you don't make the money he might NOT get the care he deserves.

Look at what you just wrote. You just wrote than unless a woman is willing to fuck a fat old rich man (basically marrying rich - look at Donald Trump - he's gross) - she can't play the game and do what it takes to win.

BTW - Niagara was a grand total of 60K. My parents had 35K - I had to come up with the rest. And that's fair. No one should expect their parents to hand them EVERYTHING.

But you bet my mom, her mother, and my GREAT grandmother clapped and stomped their feet when I walked across that stage for that B.A. and B.S.

And you know what? I bet Sarah Palin's mother did too.

[readmoreoften]

120. It's not your hard work. It's 85% luck. And your beauty queen looks aren't hurting you.

Congratulations-- 300K a year is $150K in London and can barely get you a decent flat. You're still working and you don't own the company or live on a trust fund= you're still working class. You're just making out better than others because you chose to be a handmaiden to corporate giants and they're rewarding you well.

A Bachelor's degree in a common subject from an unknown average university gets most people nowhere--even with tenacity and hard work.

I know this because I am a college professor in your field and I have worked at well-known state schools and top 20 private universities. Every year I watch my highly feminine, attractive, "mainstream feminist" students get career breaks that my masculine, non-flirtateous, lesbian students or even plainer looking female students could never get. Whether you know it or not, a good portion of your success is due to the fact that many men like having you around as eye candy--or did when you were a younger beauty queen. Tenacity and intelligence in a women is charming and exciting when you're also very attracted to her. Tenacity and intelligence in a woman is disturbing and uncomfortable if powerful men don't find you attractive.

I don't say this out of resentiment in anyway whatsoever. I'm the first woman to graduate college in my family and I have three graduate degrees including a PhD. I paid my way through my first grad degree as an exotic dancer. I had wealthy clients invest 100K in my company because I "amazed them." The biggest reason I "amazed them" was because I was a very attractive woman AND smart! WOW! Let me tell you: if I was smarter and less attractive, they wouldn't have invested in me.

I spent a lot of time around wealthy men in my youth--I know how they think, I know how they feel. I was a sympathetic confidant to many a prep school graduate and trust fund boy. I was also the confidant to many white business men who "pulled themselves up from their bootstraps" to be 'businessmen' and 'play capitalists'. A lot of them lost their money in Enron and other scams perpetrated by the 1% who think they're trash.

I also spend a lot of time around other lesbians. They don't get the consideration that you get because they don't flirt. It's getting a little better these days for the plain-looking and feminine lesbians. Masculine lesbians face violence from the same people who promote feminine women. My partner has a degree from a better university than yours and works as hard or harder than you. But working in the corporate world was never an option for her because she would never be accepted.

As far as "being willing to travel" goes--please, many people love to travel. But some of us can't accept positions overseas because we can't bring our families along because we're not heterosexual women and we'd face violence or death.

I know many MANY people who sacrifice everything for their careers, who work 80 hours a week, who have gone into debt earning graduate degrees from better schools than yours, who are sociable and charming. But they're not beauty queens and they ain' going nowhere in the corporate world.
(Of course some of them would rather shoot themselves in the face than work in global marketing.)

So sure. You worked hard like many other Americans. And you sacrificed family for work--like most Americans. But you didn't get ahead financially "solely" because of your tenacity and hard work. You got ahead because you're a woman who had enough good looks to appeal to those who have the money and hold the power, and because the women that they've picked also find you similar to themselves.

Be grateful that the world turns in your favor and give credit where credit is due: some to your hard work, some to your looks, some to the fact that your worldview happens to coincide with the powerful, some to the fact that you are feminine enough not to make your bosses uncomfortable, some to your willingness to go along and not rock the ethical boat in the world of "global marketing."

The fact that Salin Palin is a woman means not one thing to me. Not one thing.

[rebel with a cause]

25. Degrees don't mean much in today's economics.

At least that is what I have been told. I have a BSW and a MA in Sociology. I do not work, am on total diability and waiting around to see if Barack makes it to the WH. If he does, I will celebrate and die happy. If he doesn't I will throw a fit and die unhappy.

I have no problem with women who enter beauty pageants but do have a problem with the mind set that thinks you should be able to win one to be seen in public. Talking about beauty pageants, I was in Miami in the late 1960s (Fountainbleu hotel) when the MISS USA pageant arrived and the contestants stayed in our hotel. Let us just say I have never had much respect for those contests after that although I sometimes watch them.

[Captiosus]

38. Entirely too true.

Your subject line is frighteningly true.

To give an example, all of our local McDonald's have been sold to a franchised owner. He has a minimum requirement of Associate's Degree (Bachelor's Degree preferred) for any and all people wanting to come in as management. He holds this requirement for ANY management, including their 'swing managers' who only start at $9.25 an hour.

One of my best friends from High School graduated in the top 5% of his class from University of Virginia with an BS in Business Administration in 2001. He's in his 7th year working as an Office Depot assistant store manager making less than 28K a year.

[JustAnotherGen]

41. Read Naomi Wolf's books

Seriously - that's her point exactly.

See - I think Sarah Palin's looks should be off the table. Honestly? I don't find her all THAT. She's no Halle Berry - so why bring it up. But I will say this - from the two I was in?

That woman is vicious. Watch her. We all better just watch her. Vicious.

[rebel with a cause]

53. I will agree with your interruption of the viciousness.

I am not going to say it is true of all contestants, but the ones I saw there the attitude was win at all cost. The other impression was if you were a woman and not a beauty, you were a 'pig'. They treated other women at the hotel like they were so beneath them, and the men like they were good for the hunting. Like I said, I know this is not true about all beauty contestants and I hate generalization.

[JustAnotherGen]

57. You're right

There's a few good souls there. ;-) But for a lot of those women - that's the highest they are ever going to go in life.

It was the end.

Not the means to the end that Malcom X told us about. :-)

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. Depends. Has anyone here called you a low-information voter when they learned about your degrees?

In my experience, you have it exactly ass-backwards.

[Captiosus]

29. My thoughts on Education Level.

I posted something similar to this in the topic about Jamie Lee Curtis' article at The Huffington Post, but since the topic has come up more directly, I feel compelled to rewrite it.

I graduated at the top of my class...
...in High School.

I then went to college where I attended for two semesters. I had even declared my major as PoliSci with a minor in Computer Science. But the tech bubble had started to pick up and I decided to pursue industry certifications rather than finish my degree. So I left college and went into the workforce for a startup software company. I got several Microsoft certifications, several CompTIA certifications, Cisco certifications, RedHat Linux certifications and, most recently, Apple certifications.

Should any of this preclude me from ever holding public office?

At the federal level, I'd say YES. I would honestly prefer our folks in Congress and in the White House have advanced degrees. But at the state level, I would say NO. Why should I be told I don't have a chance in hell because I took an alternate, legitimate, path to my career? Since when do we all have to be doctors or lawyers to represent people? Doesn't that, in and of itself, devalue the whole point of being a government "of the people" when our representatives, even at the state and local level, are advanced lawyers, doctors and businessmen?

I fully intend on making a run for state office at some point in my life. I don't know when and I don't know where but I will do it. If my opponent wants to make an issue out of my education level, to him or her I say: Have at it. I know my level of education, I know what I'm capable of and I'm well aware of the non-traditional path I took. It only solidifies my belief in an overhaul of our educational system to assist students who want better vocational options rather than being force fed a college-only curriculum.

[JustAnotherGen]

40. Thanks

The non-Corporate JustAnother?

She holds Artists/Writers/Poets in higher regard than Physicians and Attorneys.

In this day of media misinformation and reverse political correctness . . .

Imagine if Mapplethorpe was in Congress.

[faithfulcitizen]

93. Sorry, wrong person.

[elehhhhna]

30. Stick around and get the chip off...

and keep reading. We have real rocket scientists, economists, physicians, and plain old smartasses like me. A theatre minor, btw.

[PfcHammer]

31. Math is hard

:rofl:

[GimmeDANEger]

32. I have an English Major and a Studies in Cinema and Media Culture Minor

@ University of Minnesota, Twin Cities.

I'm admittedly unfit to lead this nation.

[ColbertWatcher]

33. So many responses no recs. Pfft. k+r, n/t

[mmonk]

35. Point? Depends on what you're comparing with in reference to a job

I guess.

[MissMarple]

42. Two degrees from MU. n/t

[blonndee]

46. Valid for what? To achieve internet posting credentials?

Or, as I suspect you're getting at, to be qualified to be VP?

[a la izquierda]

47. Oooh lordy! I'm about done with a PhD in history.

I get dirty as hell doing it too, by the way (ever been in an archive? They're disgusting!) And I work in the field from time to time)


I would love for someone to tell me that my degrees don't matter. I would never do the same (though, the girl who wants to fund her Masters Degree by auctioning her virginity makes me cringe-anyone hear about this? There was a post on it earlier today).

[blonndee]

50. Heh. Those archives can be SCARY, too!

I heard stories about the archives at Bizzell but didn't take them seriously until I actually had to use them. Talk about horror-movie material. :)

[a la izquierda]

52. Bizzell's Decks are a freak-show...

I drag people up there with me when I have to go for any length of time...I'm petrified of falling through the glass block floors. And I always get creepy feelings.

And just today, I opened a book that had little mites crawling all over it (I'm in Mexico at the moment, working in a state archive). I've had sinus headaches so bad that I'm convinced my left eye might burst!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. I've had people tell me that my MA in history does not count

and yes... archives can be ahem.... dirty... very dirty....

Even just average libraries

[a la izquierda]

112. Yeah, my allergies are on the fritz right now...

the dust, mites and everything. Ugh.

But, if no one is around to educate people in history, the horrors of the past will never be properly remembered. Some prefer to bury their heads in the sand...others don't and those are the people who will help change the world.
Nobody tells me my degree is useless...they might think it, but no one is dumb enough to tell me to my face. My family initially thought it was a waste of my brains (because I wouldn't make enough money as a professor), but if I cared about the money I'd have sucked it up and done better in biology. :shrug:

[Posteritatis]

70. I plan to start one of those in two years

I'm alraady drowning in people telling me my degrees so far are worthless. Ugh.

(In what in particular, by the way?)

[a la izquierda]

111. Latin American history...

Indigenous peoples and political violence to be more specific. I'm in Mexico right now on a research trip.

[amandabeech]

126. Sub-basements at the Grad Library at U-Mich were filthy.

I spent a lot of time there doing the Honors Thesis for my A.B. in History. Went to law school and still wish I'd done the Ph.D.

I say good choice for you. Have you discovered Claritin and Zyrtec yet?

[R. P. McMurphy]

54. One of my favorite professors said...

that the only assumption you could make about someone with a bachelor's degree is that they had the tenacity to fulfill the requirements of a four-year program. A master's degree shows that you can set up a research problem and do some statistics. A doctorate shows that you are capable of some original thought.

A degree is a useful thing to have but is in no way a measure of an individual's worth.

Did Abraham Lincoln earn any college degrees?

[TaffyMoon]

55. Did you set a goal and then reach it?

Getting a degree is an example of the above. I value others ability to set a goal and reach it. It can be that simple.

[BlooInBloo]

56. And the most popular group ever, the Stupidity Defense Brigade hath spoken....

And helps to guarantee that America both remains stupid, and becomes even stupider.

[AnnieBW]

59. Well, I have a degree in Mass Communications and Russian

From Chatham College (now University). So fuck anyone who tells you that you don't belong here.

[Ilsa]

61. I think the point was that there were so many other Rethuglican

women who are much more qualified than Palin. Therefore her ed credentials became part of the argument.

[Arugula Latte]

63. English and Journalism, here.

:hide:

[Codeine]

64. I'm just sick of all the degreed

individuals at DU who look down on non-college-educated people who do physical work. There is a classicism here, and it's exactly the wrong sort for a Progressive community to have.

[Withywindle]

74. English major correction here

The word you mean is "classism." "Classicism" is something we could probably do with more of--if people nowadays knew their Greek and Roman history like the Founding Fathers did, maybe, just maybe, we'd be able to have a more lucid dialogue about democracy and empire.

But then, I'm one of those BA-degree, two-low-paying-job-holding, neo-proles who is just thankful that used books are still affordable.

I don't look down on anyone except those who get rich exploiting others.

(PS: I don't mean to be snotty. My dad, who didn't finish college and wore a uniform and carried a gun to work every day and is still one of the best-read people I've ever met, LOVED IT when I corrected him on stuff like that. He taught me that it's actually a nice thing to do. Sorry, I'm stuck with it.)

[Codeine]

76. You know what that was?

That was me spelling classism and noticing it was red-underlined by Firefox. Without checking to see I just clicked and autocorrected -- sure enough, Firefox doesn't know "classism," but it does know "classicism." :rofl:

[Withywindle]

77. Typical computer-snot thinking.

Heee. I love Internet geekery in theory, but talk about classism - it's so dominated by people who assume everybody can afford the latest cutting-edge video card they don't even recognize the word.

:rofl:

[rebel with a cause]

85. when writing a college paper on a university computer

that automatically corrected, I wrote that under bush funding for clinics in Dominican Republic had been cut due to condoms being handed out to Dominican brothels. When I handed the paper in, I did not notice that the computer had changed my words to say that condoms had been handed out to the Dominican Brothers (priest). My professor questioned me about it, and then had a good laugh when she found out what had happened. Don't ever trust anything that automatic changes your words because it thinks it knows better. ;)

By the way on education, I quit HS when I was 15 and in the 11th grade. I never felt smart, something that came from growing up in a family where you were never good enough. Anyway, I read everything I could get my hands on. Loved reading dictionaries and encyclopedias when I was growing up and even as a grown up. I amassed information and learned through hands on experiences of working in factories, as a nanny, and other manual labor positions. I went from a 'white' small town to a city, survived there and got to experience life as part of a minority group. I began to notice as I traveled through my life that I was not a dumb as I thought I was.

When I returned to small town living and my children went to school, I was shocked thru my interactions with their teachers, that I knew more than they did on most subjects. They only knew what they taught, but I knew more about the things they did not teach. This encouraged me to take my GED, and I scored the highest of anyone in that area that took the test cold (without taking classes). It took me years and becoming physically unable to do manual labor, before I began taking college classes, but I did it and earned my BSW in my forties. After working in that field for a while, I went back and got my MA in Sociology. By that time I was in my fifties, and unable to work due to illnesses and other problems. (was labeled a whistle blower in my SW days because I did the right thing). Anyway, what I am getting at, not everyone here is the average educated person even when they have degrees. Some are and some are not. In my case sometimes I show my ignorance, sometimes I come across as a know it all, and sometimes I actually know something through experience that some others may not. It is just according to the day and conversation going on.

[Codeine]

86. That's an inspiring story.

:hi:

I'd love to find the courage to continue my education. :)

[rebel with a cause]

107. Thanks..

Think about it, and if that is what you want, then you can find a way. If I could, anyone can.

But I can understand your dilemma. I have a daughter who is right now trying to get up the courage to go back for her Masters degree after having left the program eight years ago. She was only short her research paper to getting her degree, but personal problems caused her to not finish. She now works at a position that only requires a high school degree, but is lucky to have that during these times. But she is very unhappy in her situation, and she needs to go back and find her way to where she wants to be.

:pals:

[JVS]

65. Let me flip the question: why should all subjects degrees and schools be held equal

If you were looking for legal counsel, would you want the guy from Harvard Law School, or someone who did sociology at a Calvin College?

[dysfunctional press]

88. that would depend on how good a lawyer they are.

what if the guy from harvard law is fresh out of school, and finished at the bottom, but the guy from calvin college, who finished summa cum laude and took night classes at john marshall to get his law degree, has been a practicing trial attorney for 30 years...

who would you rather have defending you?

EXPERIENCE is better than ANY degree.

[JVS]

91. You just added a degree to the person who had less education. None of this what if bullshit.

Who do you want JD from Harvard or BA from Calvin college?

[dysfunctional press]

94. i had assumed that the person in question would have a law degree to practice law.

otherwise it's not an equal or fair comparison at all.

most people would obviously choose the person that actually had a law degree, no matter what school it came from.

btw- where did the harvard jd do their undergrad work, and what degree did they get there?

however- i'd STILL take the guy who has been practicing for 30 years, over someone fresh out of harvard law.

experience is MUCH more important than what school someone went to. or even IF they went to school.

[JVS]

97. "otherwise it's not an equal or fair comparison at all."

And such is the world of degrees. They're not all equal, and often a particular type is needed.

[dysfunctional press]

116. of course they're not all "equal"- would you want a journalism major doing brain surgery on you?

if the sociology guy from calvin college was a better lawyer than the harvard law grad- i'd want him.

the degree or the school it came from ultimately have nothing to do with whether the person is good at their job.

and experience trumps all.

[JVS]

119. No, and I wouldn't want some dumbass marketing major running the country

[asteroid2003QQ47]

129. You might enjoy Bill Hicks on marketers--

Bill Hicks on Marketing, from his 1990's standup routine Revelations.
http://sennoma.net/main/edits/Hicks.html

-----

By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself.

No, no, no it's just a little thought. I'm just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day, they'll take root - I don't know. You try, you do what you can. Kill yourself.

Seriously though, if you are, do.

Aaah, no really, there's no rationalisation for what you do and you are Satan's little helpers. Okay - kill yourself - seriously. You are the ruiner of all things good, seriously. No this is not a joke, you're going, "there's going to be a joke coming," there's no fucking joke coming. You are Satan's spawn filling the world with bile and garbage. You are fucked and you are fucking us. Kill yourself. It's the only way to save your fucking soul, kill yourself.

Planting seeds. I know all the marketing people are going, "he's doing a joke..." there's no joke here whatsoever. Suck a tail-pipe, fucking hang yourself, borrow a gun from a Yank friend - I don't care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil fucking makinations. Machi... Whatever, you know what I mean.

I know what all the marketing people are thinking right now too, "Oh, you know what Bill's doing, he's going for that anti-marketing dollar. That's a good market, he's very smart."

Oh man, I am not doing that. You fucking evil scumbags!

"Ooh, you know what Bill's doing now, he's going for the righteous indignation dollar.
<...

[LiberalHeart]

67. I have 6 degrees, but they're all in separation. n/t

[JeffR]

75. Never trust a Poli Sci major!

Trust me on this.;)

[tcfrogs]

79. If there were vaild/unvalid degrees

There may be few members here.

[flamingdem]

80. Don't you want your leadership to have a very high level of education?

In this area qualifications count. Not everyman/woman is qualified to lead. One big filter is their educational background.

This is a Red Herring issue the Repukes would like us to get hung up on instead of stating the obvious. Sarah Palin is not
highly educated.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

98. The most fragile, insecure people oft " have a very high level of education."

That's far too often been the case in my experience.

---------------------------------------------------------
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
--Albert Einstein

[gratuitous]

81. Doctor of Funkology

Everything else is second rate.

[JCMach1]

87. I don't care about degrees so much as intellectual depth AND curiousity

when it comes to governing...

Palin is OUT OF HER DEPTH. She was not ready and may never be. And trust me (even if you are brilliant) it is HARD to do media. A college degree rarely gives lessons on how to read a teleprompter, or how to engage the camera.

Ms. Palin (no matter how high or low her real intelligence) has a STEEP learning curve ahead of her.

This is just from my petty little experience running for the Florida Legislature. Folks, it's HARD...

[GaYellowDawg]

THIS is the kind of answer I've been hoping to see. nm

nm

[JCMach1]

106. Trust me it can be a nightmare... by the end of the campaign I had

reached a point where I was pretty confident in front of the camera.

Video is such a hot media that you almost have to freeze like a deer or you will be perceived as a spazz. Freeze too much and you appear wooden. And, by no means blink too much when giving a speech no matter how bright the lights.

And forget regular speech patterns with the prompter. If you are writing your own messages and speeches there is an art to getting the timing, cadence, and words just right for video. Oh, and make sure you get the accent just right for the audience.

Arg!!!

Add to that all of the policies and issues you have to keep in mind when doing TV interviews and it is outside of what almost everyone but politicians (and perhaps some newscasters) experience.

So, in some ways, it can be forgiven that Palin doesn't have all of this down yet. However, she also doesn't seem to have the knowledge down yet either.

[malaise]

92. I think degrees are less important than a sound education

where the student has learned critical thinking. I also believe that citizens who do not read and are ignorant about their surroundings and this planet do more harm than good.

[rebel with a cause]

114. I agree with you

Lincoln had no degree, only attended school for very short periods. But he studied when ever he could, where ever he could. He was probably one of our smartest presidents even if he was uncouth/unsophisticated/countrified in some ways. On the other hand bush has a degree and is one of the dumbist presidents we have ever had and is uncouth/boorish/crude/mock countrified. :shrug:

[faithfulcitizen]

95. Give it a rest. Education DOES matter. Experience DOES matter. She's not a victim.

When you look at Obama based on a combination of these factors, he is clearly qualified to be president. She, imo, is NOT. And that doesn't make me sexist because I think her education and resume are weak. Get the hell over yourself.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

99. She IS a victim!

Perhaps not in the sense you mean though.
Child abuse played a mojor role in shaping who she is today.

In 2006 Palin's parents are quoted in the Anchorage Daily News as saying,
"Her Christian faith, they say, came from her mother, who took her children to area Bible churches as they were growing up (Sarah is the third of four siblings). They say her faith has been steady since high school, when she led the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and grew stronger as she sought out believers in her college years."
http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/08/religion-and-sarah-palin-1.html

[faithfulcitizen]

104. huh?

[rebel with a cause]

110. You have a strange definition of child abuse there.

Being raised a Christian is not child abuse, not even when it is a fundy and observed the talking in tongues and such as a child.

I was an abused child, but it did not come from me being taken to church, not even when I was forced to attend services. Some of my experiences in churches might be considered abuse because of the stress I had to endure, but then that was far different from just attending church services.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

125. Born an atheist, parents did their best to make me a Methodist but...

I can't remember not being able to see through the pie in the sky
religion sells.
I am very sorry you were abused. I recently finished a stint working with children of migrant workers, a few of those children were neglected to the point of abuse. It is tragic that any child should have to go through that.
You might consider becoming familiar with the Stockholm Syndrome if you are not already.
IMO Palin suffers from it and she doesn't know it either.
I wish you well.

[rebel with a cause]

131. Yes, I am very familiar with the Stockholm Syndrome

and do not suffer from it. My father was a minister and I was raised in religion big time. I quit going to church at eighteen. I have attempted to go to church for short periods during my adult life, but always rejected it. I have come to terms with the fact that I do not believe in organized religion. I am not an atheist, and I am not a deist. My son says that I am a Christian because I live closer to the ideals that a Christian should than most do, but I don't claim that either. I am just who I am, and I do not identify as part of any group unless it is as a misanthrope.

I have worked with migrant workers for a short time, lived among them for a longer period. Worked with youths with behavior problems, which included children who had been abused in some way. I spent several years working with sexually abused youths and youthful predators. I have been trained in recognizing child abuse and sorry, taking them to church is not a part of what was/is considered abuse. And I doubt if the Stockholm Syndrome would apply here either.

Children are socialized usually by their parents, and if they are raised in religion then that is part of their socialization. With some people, such as your self and with me, part of that socialization may be rejected as part of rebellion or as part of an awakening in their adolescence/teen years. We all form our own ideals as we grow up, either accepting or rejecting what is expected of us. sarah palin did this also and as an adult is responsible for her own beliefs and actions. She may have been socialized into her religion and encouraged to become a part of it, but unless she was held captive and forced to ritually accept it, it would not probably be accepted as having caused the Stockholm Syndrome.

I have known quite a few people that went to this type of church and was endocrined into it. Usually, they have left the church and went wild for at least a few years. Those that stayed in the church remained faithful to it, but even some of these did not live what they presented as their beliefs. This is what I would say palin is, she was socialized to represent one thing while really being something else. She is a hypocrite. She would force her beliefs on others, while not always following them herself. JMHO

BTW, pie in the sky was not what I was raised with and neither are the real Pentecostal. I grew up with hell and high water, no real promises of pie in the sky unless you lived a very strict pious life. :rofl:

[mainegreen]

100. There are almost no qualifications needed to post at DU. n/t

[lutefisk]

115. Just the ability to form words, type them into a computer, and use a password.

The qualifications for a candidate for VP should be stratospherically higher, imho.

:hi:

[semillama]

101. Well, I have a master's degree in archaeology

so not only do I have a graduate degree BUT I also get dirt under my fingernails.

Do I get to count twice? That would be exciting!

[rebel with a cause]

109. Only if it is dirty dirt.

Clean dirt don't count. ;)

If you don't understand this reasoning, perhaps you need to come to Southern Illinois and let someone explain it to you. It may be something just known/thought here, or perhaps it is everywhere. I don't know anymore after having regional linguistic information read to me all evening yesterday. :7

[H2O Man]

102. 98.6

[davekriss]

103. What the heck are you talking about?

Sounds like a Republithug red herring inserted into the dialogue to create strife and decension. The innuendo towards "DU" does not resemble the reality. Explain what you mean by your post, what are you getting at?

[Blue Belle]

108. It depends...

are you running for Vice President of the United States?

[ThomWV]

113. Do two degree in Economics count? I also did construction work for 7 years

I was a rod-buster for 7 years, then I went to school, got a job that wasn't killing me, and lived happily ever after.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

121. Economics degrees count? Nope.

Three people are stranded on a desert island. One is a physicist, one is a chemist, and one is an economist. They have no food or drinkable water except for cases of canned tuna fish. But they have no can opener with which to open the cans.

The physicist says, "I have an idea. Let's climb this cliff and drop a can onto the rocks below." The physicist tries the experiment. A can did explode on impact, but the tuna fish sprays in all directions leaving nothing edible from the can.

The chemist says: "I have an idea . Let's soak a can in the ocean water and see if the salts and minerals in the seawater will pore a hole into the can."
The chemist drops a can into a pool of seawater but nothing happens.

The physicist and the chemist are depressed. But the economist triumphantly pronounces: I have the answer! Let's assume that we have a can-opener!"

[bicentennial_baby]

123. This Econ major is...

:rofl:

[asteroid2003QQ47]

124. Glad you like it,

got it from my son the lawyer. Lawyers have a hard time finding someone lower than them to pick on.

[DailyGrind51]

134. A genuine moment of nostalgia, thank you!

My Econ 101 professor told us that one back in 1972.:-)

[brentspeak]

127. I echo an earlier question:

What the hell ARE you talking about?

[amandabeech]

128. To me, it is not the degree, but the amount that you learned and

exercised your brain to get it that counts.

The Shrub got plenty of Gentleman's C's at Yale, but he also got some B's, which probably took some studying and thought. I recall that his SAT's were in the 600s on the old scale, which isn't bad, but may have helped along by his prep school which is supposed to prepare you for the things. Nonetheless, an IQ of 125 would be consistent for his high school and college years. That's enough brain power to do lots of things. Maybe not president, but quite a bit.

I think that his current intellectual problems are twofold:

(1) He pickled his brain with alcohol and drugs--he not only lost cells but

(2) Stopped using those brain cells that he had as soon as he left college. My mom (long-time teacher) and I agree that he is simply the least intellectually engaged president that we've had, and that includes Ronzo. You have to keep using it to keep it. He pickled and atrophied his brain, and what we see today is the result.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

130. Not all degrees are equal indications of ability. Live with it.

Degrees in Theoretical Physics are worth more than degrees in Media Studies.

Degrees from Oxford are worth more than degrees from Rutland Polytechnic.

A First Class degree is worth more than a Third.

Having a degree in Mass Communications and Political Science from the University of Niagra certainly doesn't invalidate your opinions, but it doesn't count for much in your favour, either.

[jberryhill]

132. It depends upon what you are talking about

Your opinions on mass communication are of more value than mine.

I have:

a bachelor's degree in engineering with a minor in physics
a master's degree in electrical engineering
a Ph.d. in electrical engineering
a J.D. and a license to practice law

I have worked as a dairy hand, a janitor, a retail cashier, a pizza deliverer, a substitute teacher, a lab tech, a university teaching assistant, an engineer, and an attorney.

But I don't know as much about mass communication, poli sci, or theater, so the those qualifications from Niagara College trump mine on those subjects.

I have never used an impact wrench or a bulldozer. I have never worked as a waiter. There are lots of things I know absolutely nothing about, and lots of experiences I do not have.

Everyone brings their own unique insights and experiences to the table.

However, and I am certain of this - I am not qualified to be the Vice President of the United States.

Okay?

And, by the way, as a job, delivering pizza kicks ass!

[DailyGrind51]

133. You often find that those who don't have college degrees, ala Limbaugh,

are the greatest critics of those who do and that unattractive women prefer to think of physically beautiful women as intellectually challenged. Valerie Plame is evidence that neither stereotype is valid.