Looking back at comments 9-11-01

[MarkInCA]

It's interesting to look back to posts made on 9-11-01 knowing what we know now, and how little we knew then. I was going through archives from 9-11-01 and the following comments by various people stand out:

- holy shit I FEAR how Bush is going to handle this.

- George is READING TO school kids

- Bush said an attack on our nation will not stand. Without evidence he has already decided that another nation did this. Maybe so, maybe a domestic terrorist group. He's trying to set up an enemy.

- If it turns out Shrub knew anything or this is mismanaged, it could be curtains for Bush II. The investigations will be endless.

- I hate to say this but this is like Rumsfeld's wet dream.

- CHENEY WAS IN CHARGE OF OUR ANTI-TERRORISM "PLANS." Is he still studying?

- BinLadin Denies responcibility

- I fear the government is going to use this to instigate martial law or something. We are locked out of the "I hate to say this" forum. Whoever set this up clearly achieved the goal of disrupting the economy. I hope people will see the waste of the missle defense shield, Biden and other Democrats were talking about our vunerability just days ago. I can feel a dramtic change about how we are and will be as a country. I am noticing the internet starting to slow down. I hope we can keep talking all day. I hope the net doesn't shut down.

- As much as I despise Bush I will stand behind him if/when he decides to bomb whoever did this back into the Bronze Age.

- He has Powell. Hopefully he already has him on line 1.

- C-Span callers- all Arabs out-we shouldn't criticize prez-this will be an exucse to limit liberties.

- where did they find all the pilots able to pilot a modern airline well enough to target these buildings, and who were willing not only to commit suicide, but take so many down with them when they did? what the hell IS this?

- CBS is saying something to the effect that no pilot would deliberatley do tese things even with a gun pointed at their head. Which would mean that the pilots were the ones doing this. Frightening - did teh terrorists replace them? How in holy fucking hell did airport security get this bad???

- Aircraft Security Have you ever gone through security at an airport and felt that the personnel there are the cheapest that money can buy.

- Sen John McCain declares ATTACKS an ACT of WAR CNN

- John Mccain Says OUR lifestyles will CHANGE from now on

- My biggest fear right now, after here the president speak, is that I do not feel comforted, I do not feel safe, and I do not feel reassured.

[Selatius]

1. Hahaha, our lifestyle did not change. Nothing significant really changed.

The only significant difference between today and 9/11 is the fact that everybody makes less thanks to out of control inflation. The only people who improved their positions are arms manufacturers, private military contractors, and hedge fund managers.

[uppityperson]

3. My lifestyle has changed. Flown recently? Or talked overseas?

Had any family or friends go to Iraq/Afghanistan, maybe multiple times? Had to deal with the PTSD and/or physical issues with returning vets? How's your income changed in the last 7 yrs? Mine has dropped a lot due to everyone cutting back due to raising oil prices. Tried to sell a house recently?

[Selatius]

5. I mean the national dialogue has not really changed much. I get what you're saying.

I'm poorer now than I have ever been in my life, but nobody seems to be noticing.

[uppityperson]

17. I get what you mean. Was being uppity there. Thanks, I agree, attitudes have only slowly changed

and that is due to financial stuff. It will be interesting to see if people start buying less, using things longer, not have to keep up with the neighbors, conspicuous consumption gets discarded, etc

[ieoeja]

14. I haven't flown recently. I used to talk overseas a lot, but not for years now.

No family or friends have gone to Iraq/Afghanistan. Haven't had to deal with any returning vets. My income has gone up. We sold our parents house this year, but it was fortunately in a market that was never overpriced (I'm sure I would take a killing if I tried selling the apartment building I bought just a few years ago in Chicago; but then, why would I?).

Most people do not fly frequently. Less than 300,000 troops overseas means less than 1 in every 1,000 people are overseas which means most people do not have any loved ones directly involved. Nor do most people buy and sell a house more than once or twice in their lifetime.

Except for doing better with money, I'd bet my life is a lot more like the average American's than is apparently yours.

[ieoeja]

15. What HAS changed.

I have to walk through security to get into my office. Should someone want to come up here, they would have to show security a picture id. So this added security is a complete waste of time because....

1. terrorists have ids, and

2. the odds of a terrorist attacking us is so small this just makes us look like a bunch of fucking pussies.

One of the things that surprised me about Obama's headquarters is that he put it in the only building I knew of downtown where you could still just walk right in and onto an elevator. Alas, the building secured it like everybody else finally a couple weeks ago.


For awhile there was no street parking downtown. I was of two minds about that. First, I am one of the many who have favored a street parking ban downtown for decades because there isn't enough of it to be useful. So you end up with people cruising the streets looking for a parking space they will likely never find instead of focusing on their driving. However, I did not like the reason for the parking ban. I wanted it banned for a sensible reason. Not because we're a bunch of fucking pussies.

The ban was lifted recently.


Basically, the only thing I can think of that 9-11 changed in my life is my loss of respect for my fellow Americans.

[uppityperson]

19. You lost respect for your fellow Americans and they look like a bunch of fucking pussies?

Huh. I'd drop the "pussies" description, come up with something a bit different, but know what you mean.

I'd say I lost a respect due to the buying into FEAR (omg, be afraid. Go about your everyday life but make sure you are afraid. be a good american and be afraid). There are things to be afraid of, but too much of our society is built around fear. Buy this toothpaste or be afraid that babe/dude thinks you have bad breath. Don't talk to anyone you don't know because you just never know who they are, be afraid. Space out driving, eat, drink, read, because after all you don't have to be afraid of dying in a car accident, only if a TERRORIST decides to KILL you. Booga booga avian flu! OMG a dirty bomb!!! Look, there's a couple guys with dark hair and brown skin talking to each other quietly! OMG!

pisses me off.

[ieoeja]

20. I would like to make a correction.

Those insults should have been directed at our political leaders. Because I hear a whole lot more people complaining about the added security features than praising them. I heard fewer fellow Americans say, "but I guess it's necessary," than I hear agreeing with me that it is unnecessary.

So, fellow Americans, I apologize. I was caught up in the moment and holding you responsible for those you elect.

[uppityperson]

18. Not sure why you say that last bit. Here are my changes:

Lower income due to everyone spending less, even for health care (my profession). Costs of daily necessities like food has gone up, planted a much bigger garden and had meat chickens for the first time this yr. My property taxes have gone up due to being assessed at much higher amount, based on comps sold 2 yrs ago (not quite accurate in today's market but it is what they use here).

I have friends with kids in Iraq, one just got home after 3rd tour. Another friend's kid was PTSDing, suicidal with minimal help from VA, so gave them contacts of vets groups to help them.

I just flew because I got a freq flyer mile ticket for playing the airline credit card game (Get a credit card, get miles, stop it after a yr before they tack annual fee on) and getting through security was a pain. Much more so than yrs back, before "everything changed on 9/11".

So, I am probably not like the average American because I owe minimally on my unfinished house, am self employed (but struggling), have gotten by on low income for yrs due to low outgo (including being very unfashionably dressed from second hand stores) and talk with family who have emigrated. Not sure why you'd bet your life is a lot more like the average American's than mine is though, or what that has to do with the topic of life changing.

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. Don't forget the oil companies

And the franken-food companies (Monsanto & ADM) who are trying to control the biofuel market because the oil companies have done TOO well.

[kayell]

9. I assume that you are being severely sarcastic

I hope that you are being severely sarcastic.

[Selatius]

11. No, I'm not. Since 9/11, nothing good has happened to good people in America.

Everything from Katrina to the Iraq War to the freaking bank bailouts have fallen most heavily on the working poor and what's left of the middle class. People thought change was coming in 2000, but nothing got better. Everything went to shit, and on top of the 3000 who died in those towers, you now have 4000+ who died on foreign battlefields for no good reason. Nevermind the fact that now people have even less freedom than before.

When I said change, I mean honest real change. We have not had that. We would need another fucking FDR to correct all the damage done in the last 8 years of hell. People thought the 1990s were good, but it wasn't for the working poor. Wages in the 1990s did not grow as fast as they did in the 1960s or 1970s. In fact, they stagnated, and now they're decreasing.

If you're at the bottom of society looking up at the landlord's castle, the view doesn't change much. It's not sarcasm you're reading. It's disappointment.

[kayell]

12. Lots and lots of negative change

Loss of personal freedoms
Loss of freedom of speech right, particularly those damned to hell "free speech zones"
Constant fear, fear, fear
All the many many economic changes which you allude to but which have been horrific for many. (I'm in the lower end of the 2nd quintile, so feeling it pretty hard, but anyone not in the top 1% or so is hit)
1000s of US dead in Iraq and Afghanistan
10,000s of US injured in horrific ways, and mentally traumatized for life. (My former neighbor dead - a man diagnosed with clinical depression and PTSD and shipped back for a second round in Iraq - he told me before he went that he knew he would die there)
100,000s (or more) of dead Iraqis and Afghanis
Loss of any respect whatsoever from members of other countries
So many, many more than I'm just not going to enumerate them now, because it just makes me want to weep.

I'm assuming you actually meant it much this way, or that I seriously misunderstood your original comment.

[arcadian]

2. "If it turns out Shrub knew anything or this is mismanaged, it could be curtains for Bush II."

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::cry:

[doublethink]

6. This may be off base but ....

I thought searching the DU archives, or the search function was a a privilege for donor members here on DU? Just curious if that has changed, and asking because I don't see a star by your name? Curious? Am I wrong? :shrug:

[MarkInCA]

7. Got me, I'm a noob...[Edited]

Someone posted a link to the 9-11-01 threads earlier and I clicked on it.

Today's post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3972536

Referred to:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID5&mm=3440&archive=yes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID35&mm=3920&archive=yes

Edit: I just realized I answered my own question. I didn't search anything. Followed a link.

[doublethink]

8. Thanks ...... and ya know what .... it just dawned upon me ....

that just popping something relevant into google like '911 democratic underground' and you could come up with that stuff anyway. Peace. :hi:

ps: thanks for the links.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

10. I didn't know Bin Laden denied responsibility.

It seems even the MSM was reporting that back then. It must have been before the MSM became Bush's tool.

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks.

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said. ...


http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

All I remember back then were video tapes of Bin Ladin, damning America.

[Mnemosyne]

13. I believe it only was reported once. They also reported his death

in Dec. 2001, that got pulled quickly.

I heard both reports with my own ears.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

16. That's like one night, -or should I say in the wee hours of the morning....

...back when Israel and Hezbolla were clashing about the abduction of those two soldiers; FOX reported that "Israel bombed Iran's nuclear facilities".

I remember thinking, well at least Bush can't tell us that Iran has nuclear weapons. That story disappeared.