Why are repub bornagains so fixated on Revelations?

[Philosoraptor]

They want prophecy to happen, and they've waited for thousands of years, and they are tired of waiting.

When Revelations was written, and re-written, and re-re-written, there were no nuclear bombs or nations like America.

Have any of you ever read Revelations? Unfortunately, I've read the whole book, several times, but the crazies just LOVE Revelations, and they have a total fetish about it.

They seem focused more on the old testament angry God than his son the peace freak.

Why are they so tuned in to the four horsemen? The beast? The whore of Babylon? The return of Jesus?
The rapture?

Are they religious, or are they seriously deluded and deranged?

[C_U_L8R]

1. It's the part that most reads like a comic book

[Hugabear]

2. Is it the 'whore of Babylon' or the 'whore who babbles on'?

I think Palin could fit the latter.

[cliffordu]

29. LOL. You're gettin' renditioned for that, big guy....

:rofl:

[rurallib]

3. Everyone wants to think they can tell the future.

Revelations is their map to the future.
I think they want the stars to fall from the skies and the moon to burn up (or whatever is in revelations) just so they can say "I told you so"

[tanyev]

4. Because it's so convoluted and obscure, they can make it say anything they want.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. "Are they religious, or are they seriously deluded and deranged?" Yes.

Apocalypse watching is a time-honored sport among some people, especially in the United States. Most modern incarnations derive from the belief that the world has become so sinful, so wicked and so dangerous for "proper Christians" that only the return of Jesus can save them. That is their main focus: the Second Coming and their inevitable entry into Heaven. The rest -- mass chaos, wars, disasters, plagues -- are just signs that the end is near.

[lisa58]

6. Because they're not happy and they want Jesus to come back and say...

...you're right and they're wrong.

[StarryNite]

42. Exactly!

And they want to be whisked away from their miserable lives without having to go through a natural death.

[BulletproofLandshark]

7. They really shouldn't be so anxious for the end to come, ya know.

It seems as though the people cheering on the Rapture the most are some of the least likely people to actually get to Heaven, if and when it happens. Not that I believe in that stuff, just pointing out the obviously hypocritical way they live their lives.

[Lerkfish]

8. Just guessing here, but the relatively modern concept of "rapture"

means they get to salivate at the suffering of others while they themselves avoid it and get priveleged treatment.

of course, the "rapture" as currently used, has no real basis in scripture, but the elitism it allegedly confers to the "saved" is attractive to people who wish to continue to retain their bigotries while still claiming godliness.

its whack.

[cali]

9. wrong. the fixation on Revelations

manifested itself while Christianity was in its infancy. You can go back to the Montanists and see the emphasis on Revelations.

Yes, of course there was no United States when John of Patmos wrote Revelations at the end of the first century C.E. There was, however Rome. There was Christian persecution.

Christian focus on the end-times has flowered intensely during several historical eras. The following is an excellent book on the subject of Millenarian movements: The Pursuit of the Millennium: Revolutionary Millenarians and Mystical Anarchists of the Middle Ages.

All religions have end-time myths as well as creation myths. Christianity has long had a strong eschatological streak. Nothing new about it at all.

[Philosoraptor]

10. I always enjoy my morning scolding

[Lerkfish]

12. not to worry, although I think cali makes valid points,

your OP is extremely valid.

the question of "why" is important, if you'll look at my post further upthread, it dovetails nicely into the republican attitude of "I've got mine, fuck everyone else".

[cali]

18. it's not a scolding Just correcting some of your post

from a historical perspective I agree with your overarching concerns regarding these folks. I actually think, given your interest in the subject that you might enjoy Cohn's book. Yeah, it's pretty scholarly but it's readable. And I think you'd really like this book: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/BOYWHE.html

It's very entertaining and informative.

I've long been fascinated with this subject; to the point that I went back to school and got a MA degree in Millennial Studies.

[LibertyLover]

28. What an interesting degree subject-makes my MA in Military History look boring

:) I liked When Time Shall Be No More very much. Have you read A History of the End of the World by Jonathan Kirsch? I just finished it and found it excellent.

[Nikki Stone1]

16. Christianity began in the crucible of Messianic Judaism which was focused on the End Times

in the first century, mostly due to the misery under Roman rule which began when Pompey entered Jersusalem.

[RB TexLa]

11. What's fun is to listen to one try to explain how this is not the Holy Mother.

The Apocalypse Of Saint John
Chapter 12
1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. 3 And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems: 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.

[Philosoraptor]

13. My favorite passage

It can be interpreted in so many, many ways.

[Lerkfish]

15. In fairness, revelations interpretations vary widely and wildly

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. They are angry people

angry people who feel that they did everything right, and yet their lives suck. However, they're too ignorant (they're the ones who slept through history, science, and English classes in high school, because they couldn't figure out how those classes were going to help them get a job) to analyze the reasons for their unhappiness, so they're desperate for a framework in which to place their anger.

One of the things that has made them unhappy is that they've moved out to bleak exurbs where there is no community, so they're stuck going to work and coming home to places where there's nothing to do in the evening but watch TV.

Along come the megachurches, which provide instant community and a full range of social activities, sometimes even a total information environment of approved books, movies, magazines, radio and TV stations, and websites. Being ignorant about anything but their jobs and the last five years of pop culture, they are ripe for the picking by sleazy preachers who concentrate on the "wrath of God" passages in the Bible.

The effect on the angry suburbanite is profound. Here is a framework for their anger. It's all the fault of the "baby-killing liberals," who maliciously want to ruin the American way of life. And boy, are they going to get their comeuppance when the final trumpet sounds...

[cliffordu]

34. "Being ignorant about anything but their jobs and the last five years of pop culture"

Completely sums whole swaths of this country..

[On the Road]

17. Let's Put it This Way

If you believed the Bible was the word of God, and that Revelation described thing that were going to happen in the near future, wouldn't you be fixated on it too?

[bdamomma]

19. to answer your last question

yes, they are deluded and deranged.

[tsuki]

20. Because their righteousness is an excuse for their failure in

life.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. They focus on Revelation

Because they do not like what the rest of the Book has to say, particularly the words of Jesus. And while as some posters here have pointed out Rev has been popular for some time with extemeists, the current interpreatatios are very new, and very New World also. The so called rapture is a new creation, and it just goes on from there.

Oh. And to poster above: When someone asks a question, the answer 'wrong' just does not apply.Rude. Do Unto Others. One of the Great Avoided Texts. When the question is 'why?', in what language is 'wrong' a response that is even grammatically correct?

[cali]

22. The OP did not simply ask a question, he proffered an answer

to his own question. Ergo, my response of "wrong" was to the answer not the question, and sorry, it has nothing to do with grammar. As for rudeness- calling out another DUer is not only rude, it's against the rules of DU. Look to the moat in your own eye.

[Lerkfish]

23. LOL! "mote" instead of "moat"

just had to get medieval on your...

:)

[cali]

25. Did I really? That is a funny gaffe.

Don't mind being joshed about that at all.

[Lerkfish]

37. I meant it good naturedly, so glad you took it that way.

:)

[Bluenorthwest]

32. Yes you are right

I'm always sarcastic to people here. I'm the one with the mote. You are the civil person here. I humbley apologzie for claiming that many defenders of the current apostate church wish to speak of Reveltion to avoid the Beatitudes and other teachings of Jesus. And the chuch of today is sadly focused on that book far more than other times and places. Note the popular focus on the Left Behind books and all of that. Hal Lindsay and the rest of the best selling books about the End Times. Big sellers indeed.


Sorry the OP had a strong point. Today's self identified Christians focus on Revelation so that they can avoid practicing the decent ways of Christ. Uncomfortable but true. Jesus wept.

And I am sorry for being a tad rude. Now perhaps you might reverse the process and check out your own eye for motes?

[cali]

35. Look, this is my subject.

I take a historical pov regarding Millenarianism. I'm not disagreeing that some Christians have an obsession with eschatology. I agree with the OP on that. Where I disagree, is that this is a new, startling phenomenon. I KNOW it's not. And in fact, in medieval Europe it was a bigger cultural phenomenon by far, than it is in today's America. And it wreaked far, far greater social upheaval. Furthermore, sorry, but "today's self-identified Christians" do not focus on Revelations. At least the majority don't. Catholics don't. Episcopalians don't. Most Methodists and Presbyterians don't.

And your post is nasty and unapologetic. Don't try and bullshit. I'm not claiming to be some paragon of posting etiquette. YOU are. That's called hypocrisy. Oh, and your own spelling and grammar reflects poorly on someone lecturing about it. Humbley? Try again.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. I know what you mean

Look, I don't do rewrites here. I did not mention your spelling errors. Because I don't give a rip.

My point is that the rapture theology is fresh and new. I understand everything you are talking about. Most people here don't. The infant church was not waiting for the Rapture. I just want people to know that. I am fully aware that such a focus is only in a faction of the churches, that is really part of my point. It is not universal, it is not the traditional way. Of course the book of Revelation has been studied as long as it has been there to study. The dogma that came from those studies is very different from the current 'Rapture focus Protestants'. The current teachings and focus of many of these chruches are new, although the study of that text is not.

To be very honest, which is the idea, I'm in full out touchy mode on this subject due to Palin. I was raised AofG in part. Lived it. So it is intensly personal to me, and I tend to be suspect of any postings that seem, to my hyper sensitive eyes, to be in any way a defense of Palin or her theology. I do know that was not your intention, and I am sorry. We all constantly learn to better temper our reactions and our interactions to serve us better.

What I should have done, is ask for you to clarify for those who don't know as much as you do. I could have been direct, and polite, and specific, and frankly I think you could do a great job in reply. How's that? You are highly informed. And I could have asked a question that would have moved this along better. Right now, my religionist alert buttons are on high GOP alarm, and for that I do apologize. This is the area in which I always have to watch myself, as my feelings are strong, and so are the feelings of others. You are a good and passionate Democrat, and I often enjoy your postings for content.
Peace.

[cali]

41. Fair enough. it seems we were just misreading one another here

and essentially agree.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Absolutley

And man, taking a Master's in Millinial studies gets my respect. Your facts at hand will leave me far behind, and I don't say that easily. It is in fact great that you are here on DU, as so many issues around religion are now on our plate, and we have so many points of view in our Party.

[JHB]

24. Because it's the part that doesn't tell them they have to...

...love the people they don't want to love, forgive the people they don't want to forgive, not scold the people they want to scold, that money & Jesus don't mix, that collossal arrogance & Jesus don't mix, and in general that in the name of being "biblical" they've rewritten Christianity in their own image rather than rewriting themselves according to Jesus' teachings.

[AnnaLouise]

26. Christian warmonger, an oxymoron

Christian warmonger, an oxymoron

[krabigirl]

27. Drama. The rest of the Bible is probably boring to them.

[treestar]

39. bingo! St. Paul tells them about how to behave and Jesus

tells them to love their neighbor. Yawn. Nobody's dying and their vindictiveness and self righteousness doesn't get stroked.

[meowomon]

30. They think they are chosen

And will be yanked up to heaven leaving the rest of us behind. They are nutty religious types not unlike radical muslims in their hardcore beliefs. I was raised by these people and they are in a cult.

[pleah]

31. Because they are bat shit crazy!

:smoke:

[RebelOne]

33. Go visit www.raptureready.com

and you can get an insight on why they are so fixated on Revelations. They are praying for the end of the world as we know it and Jesus returning and whisking them up to heaven.

[LanternWaste]

36. I think the morbid fascination is across the board....

I think the fascination is across the board, and not just simply Christians, or even those who hold a faith in religion.

There seems to be a streak of post-apocalyptic morbidity which even the most humanist and the most secular have been spotted fantasizing over.

I've read numerous threads on DU in the past year or two which focused on stockpiling guns, ammunition, potable water and supplies for the Next Big End of the World-- whether it's due to Peak Oil, Nuclear Holocaust, Water Supply, or Climate.

Indeed, many movies and books have been written that appeared to directly target "instinctual survivalist" we all seem to have gestating in our inner thoughts. From the books "Alas, Babylon" and "The Stand" to the films "The Day After" and "The Matrix" (and one of my all-time favorite B-movies, 'Def-Con Three'), which all seem to reflect a strange marriage between the Uber-Survivalist (the classic anti-hero born of an almost Ayn Randian philosophy) in us and our dystopian bride.

[romulusnr]

40. its like horoscopes for christians

of course, astrology is witchcraft, but interpreting revelations is divine prophecy.

[Javaman]

44. because they hate their own lives. nt

[AuntPatsy]

45. They are easily frightened people, its a character flaw, its the truth, why else

would they so easily enjoy the supposed horrific deaths of millions of human beings? Another sad part of this is they don't see how sickening this need to see this belief of Armegeddon happening honestly is.....

[Rocknrule]

46. Because they have a hard-on for human suffering

and think the main attraction in heaven will be pleasuring themselves to images of gays and Democrats burning in hell

[noel711]

47. It's not RevelationS (not plural) but singular: Revelation

It was a dream, a 'revelation' to JOhn as he was
exiled at the island of Patmos by Rome,
because he was Christian.
In this dream is mysticism, and some revenge.

Why does it appeal to low-income, low-educated crowd?
Because it gives them hope in their crappy lives.
They too want revenge because they feel that the world
has put them in exile along with old JOhn.

I'm not gonna put forth my theological take on it;
it sure gets the crowds 'whooped' up.

And the 'rapture,' tho seemingly fresh and new,
has no real biblical basis; it is a huge industry,
based on a few lines of scripture.
Like the republican administrations, it governs
with fear.

Google: "Millerism," and "darbeyism".. the sources
of this so-called 'theology.'

Like the MOrmon church, this is an American invention,
that started with the Evangelical Revivals of the 18th century.
There was no rapture-crapture until then.