Fake Job Ads to defraud Americans and hire H1B visa holders

[FreakinDJ]

Watch this video of a Visa Immigration Law Firm giving instrutions to American Companies of "How to place fake job ads so they can hire H1B visa holders

http://www.youtube.com/programmersguild

[AzDar]

1. This disgusts and enrages me.

:mad:

Undermining the economic security of this country is nothing short of treason.

[OhioChick]

2. I see it all the time...

My company will put ads in newspapers, etc. and when they get thousands of applications......through them out, while at the same time claiming that they couldn't find a U.S. citizen to fill the position......then bring in the H-1B's or retain the ones they have.

[DainBramaged]

47. Yup, happens ALL the time in IT

[OhioChick]

48. Unfortunately...

Those who aren't in the field don't believe it.

[DainBramaged]

52. It's why I get paid shit

[OhioChick]

53. Same Here. n/t

[DemFromMem]

3. This is a video relating to green cards, not H-1Bs

Get your facts right. And, by the way, there are only 65,000 H-1B slots available per year under the annual quota, all of which are used up in the first day of the fiscal year they are available each year and you have to apply on April 1st for an October 1st start date. And then 150,000+ applications are still received for those 65,000 slots and the visas are allocated in a lottery. So to say companies are relying on H-1Bs to replace American workers is simply not reality even if you want to argue by anecdote.

What can be demonstrated is that employers in IT are contending with unemployment rates around 2% and the lack of access to enough US workers and workers on visa is leading companies to just ship the jobs overseas. That trend has accelerated ever since the H-1B quota was cut from 190,000 per year to the current 65,000 limit.

You can start flaming me now if you like, but facts are facts.

[FreakinDJ]

4. Get you facts right - they are talking about H1Bs

Green Card is for "Naturalized Citizens"

And H1Bs in the Electrical Industry are used to suppress American worker's wages

[Prefer]

7. H1B is a scam to steal from the American Worker. Period.

There is no shortage of labor.

H1B is corporate welfare - "we'll let you bring in workers from a place of poverty, so you can pay a fraction of the price".

The thing is, Americans will never get the skills if these corporations stay on welfare forever.

The achievement of skills is predicated on a MARKET FOR THOSE SKILLS.

Why do we protect our farmers and undermine other workers?

[barbtries]

14. green card is for "permanent resident" n/t

[DemFromMem]

21. Umh, no

I have written a law book on this subject so I you can lecture me all you like on this, but I promise I'm not incorrect.

Actually, this video is about 18 months old and it is from a Pittsburgh firm called Cohen and Grigsby and the firm recently found that all of its PERM labor certification cases are being audited as a result of the statements in the video.

Google it.

[tpsbmam]

9. If you actually watched the video you didn't pay attention......

it CLEARLY says in the first 20 seconds the purpose is to "secure green cards FOR H1-B VISA WORKERS." That's a direct quote.

[FreakinDJ]

11. H1Bs are not eligable for Green Cards for 4yrs

until they have been here for 4 yrs.

They have to get the 1st H1B, then a 2yr extention, then they can apply for Permenent Resident - which is a Green Card

But my Immigration law might be a little rusty, its been 5 yrs

Sorry for coming of like a jerk

[DemFromMem]

23. Not really

One can apply for a green card at any point while there here on H-1B status or can start even before that. Given the really low quotas for green cards, it now takes five to ten years to get a green card (the long end of the range is for Indians and Chinese who cannot use more than 7% of the total green cards in any employment-based category). And then you wait five more years before you can naturalize. This means basically 15 years in the US before they can become citizens. Hardly a cakewalk and it's the reason so many of these talented folks are going to Canada and Europe (which each are now advertising to attract H-1Bs from the US to go to their countries and take advantage of much more liberal work visa rules).

I'd prefer to leave the immigrant-bashing to the GOP.

[OhioChick]

24. "I'd prefer to leave the immigrant-bashing to the GOP."

Interesting, I haven't seen any "immigrant bashing" thus far.

[DemFromMem]

26. This is another of the H-1Bs are stealing our jobs threads

They're not and its no different than the Mexicans are coming to steal our jobs stuff we get from Lou Dobbs.

[countryjake]

31. Yes and there are three of them going at once.

Didn't like what I said in his last one, so this one was begun.

[FreakinDJ]

38. Actually We agreed in the end - you must not have read it

Yes I agree with organizing workers - North or South of the boarder as most Unions have organizing efforts in many countries. Only problem with organizing in Mexico is it will reduce your life expectancy to about 2 weeks.

Bashing the workers is not the answer
Allowing everyone in the world to come to America is not either

Creating language into our Trade Agreements the encompass "Worker's Right to Organize", Environmental Protections, Prohibiting Predatory Pricing schemes, and with REAL TEETH that automatically enforce mandatory "Tariff Penalties" for violators is needed

[countryjake]

43. So titles such as "defraud Americans" is your way...

of garnering support for the rights of guest workers to organize? Funny, dat.

I apologize if your intentions have been misunderstood, but you certainly skedaddled out of that other topic on the exact same issue, to try again in this one, mighty fast.

[FreakinDJ]

44. It was the title on the web page I got the video from

and I am from No Cal. where Farm Workers FIRST Organized

And yes we supported the strike - everyone did, it was the right thing to do.

But lets not confuse the issues. This is a clear cut case of corporations in-sourcing cheap labor. No they are not paid the same (mainly because lack of enforcement) and yes they displace American Workers.

(on edit)

Don't you think Obama needs to reaffirm his campaign promise of "Good Jobs for American Workers"

[countryjake]

50. So here is how you deal with it...

http://65.18.221.115/_page.php?menu=organizing&inc=keycampaign/globalhorizons/GHchron.htm

These workers did not condemn the foreign workers who were stuck here under miserable conditions...they fought for their rights, too. And it worked.
The trade may be different, but the issue is exactly the same!

I think there is no prominent politician in this country who will buck the might of corporate power. Solidarity with any and all workers, no matter their citizenship status, is the ONLY way to secure good jobs for us all.

[FreakinDJ]

54. Fine - They DENIED Additional worker petitions

That is how the dealt with it - from the link you provided

That was the only way they could get the attention of the employer otherwise the employer would have tied the thing up in the court until the visas had expired

DO NOT EXPAND H1B VISA PROGRAMS UNTIL PROPER ENFORCEMENT OF THE EXISTING LAWS CAN BE CONFIRMED.

See - We are in agreement

[countryjake]

55. Here's how they got the attention of the employer...

The union contract will provide agricultural guest workers with:

* A 2 percent pay raise over the current wage of $9.03 an hour set under the federal H-2A guest-worker program.

* Employer-paid medical care while in the United States for all workers hired through Global Horizons. Under the H-2A program, there is no paid medical coverage, but worker's compensation is available.

* Paid work breaks.

* A seniority system.

* Paid bereavement leave, including round-trip transportation to country of origin.

Union, Contractor Form Curious Coalition
http://www.smfws.com/articles2006/2006aprilmayjune/art04112006c.htm



They dipped into the profits of these bastards at Global and ended their practice in this state. With the fines leveled at Global, other states took notice, such as your own.

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/may/23/local/me-laborfine23

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4184/is_20050927/ai_n15616007


All was achieved by extending Union protection to the visa workers, not condemning them as "job thieves" or drumming up resentment toward "foreigners" and inciting nationalism with the "Defrauded Americans" meme.

Maybe Tech workers could learn a lesson from the UFW.

[FreakinDJ]

56. Global ended their practice in that state

Which means some else did and they most likely were illegal

Yes I commend the organizing efforts and think they are very valuable tool to fight worker exploitation. But until action is taken at a Federal Level to curtail exploitation of workers foreign and domestic it will continue.

We need tough laws against employers

$10,000.00 and or 6 months - 1st offense

$100,000.00 and 1 year (mandatory jail time) 2nd offense.

Even the I-9 form has turned out to hurt honest workers.

Now illegals use innocent people SSI number to the point the original SSI member loses their benefits because the system can't tell where 1 begins and the other ends. (This was from the debate in the Senate over the McCain/Kennedy Immigration Reform Bill)

[countryjake]

57. So now you classify working people as "illegal"?

Most people have absolutely nothing in common with the ruling class in this country, but when they begin to use the tactics and code-words...to adopt the attitudes of oppression that our government has used to divide, weaken, and exert their control over every single one of us for centuries, you must expect no change.

When I labor elbow to elbow with a person, I consider them my sister or brother in the struggle of working people all over the world to improve the conditions of our life.

I provided you with examples of how unity, solidarity, and Unionization must be used in order to end the exploitation of our working class, in all of the topics you deemed necessary to begin on this issue yesterday, and just as I suspected, you have now sunk to demeaning working people. We, sir, gain nothing from those who wish to divide us!

[FreakinDJ]

58. No you are seeking to define this as a Racial Issue

Fact is your article cited an example using workers from Thailand. I can also think of several dozen other countries that would have workers lining up to come over and work a seasonal job in the fields

Problem is this – (stay with me friend)

The Employers do not want to pay the extra cost of hiring workers (foreign or domestic) legally.

Take H2B (seasonal farm worker) visa holders for example. The employer must provide living quarters with a kitchen and laundry facility. Employer must provide all tools need in the execution of work. Employer must provide adequate medical insurance, ect, ect...

The American Citizen, Naturalized Citizen, or Permanent Resident Alien worker. The Employer must pay into SSI, State Taxes, Federal Taxes, and provide workmen’s compensation insurance.

What does the employer pay when hiring illegal workers……..

NOTHING !!!!

This is not an issue of Race, or legal status, but simply an issue of unscrupulous employers willing to break a multitude of UN-enforced Laws to reap increased profits.

[OhioChick]

45. Makes sense to me...

Greedy-ass U.S. Corporations are using fake ads to defraud Americans and instead hire H-1B holders.

[OhioChick]

46. Outsourcing/Offshoring is a BIG issue....

Has it not affected you, yet?

[OhioChick]

40. I have seen no one except for you

Mentioning "stealing our jobs threads."

I guess if that H-1B cap is lifted, you make more $$$$?

Then again....you may be on the wrong forum...

More H-1B visas, McCain's top priority

May 23, 2008

"I believe we have to secure our borders, but we must enact comprehensive immigration reforms. And we must make it our top priority," Senator John McCain told chief executives of several high-tech companies on Thursday, when he visited the Silicon Valley for a fundraiser event.

Praising the innovative strengths of Silicon Valley entrepreneurs, McCain said California's booming technology industry was proof of American competitiveness and why the United States needs to keep international commerce as open as possible, without erecting new barriers that would impede progress and growth.

McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, was flanked by California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and former eBay President and CEO Meg Whitman, at a roundtable discussion on high-tech innovation on the production floor at Finelite, a maker of lighting systems for offices and schools.

The declaration came after several Silicon Valley CEOs complained about the need for highly skilled employees and the problems they face over the cap on visas for skilled workers.

http://specials.rediff.com/money/2008/may/23visa1.htm

[FreakinDJ]

30. Actually it is Greedy Corporation Bashing

lets not deter from the point of the artical

Indians and Americans alike are being abused by this practice

[DemFromMem]

22. But that's not what the lecture was about

It was about converting workers already here on H-1Bs to become green card holders. They do not talk about how to get workers H-1Bs or anything about the process for getting them here. The firm in question is in hot water for the advice they gave with respect to the green card process, not the H-1B process. And the advice they gave their clients would pertain to a worker in any non-immigrant visa status - F-1 student, L-1 intra-company transfer, O-1 extraordinary ability applicant or even someone not yet in the US. The fact that the word H-1B was uttered does not mean this lecture was about the H-1B process.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

35. I for one am glad that another immigration professional

is on board. I felt I was alone trying to explain to people the complexities of immigration law to no avail. I second and third all that DemFromMem is saying.

That seminar was indeed geared toward the PERM (labor certification) process. The labor cert is only the first step for a non-immigrant worker to obtain permanent residence (the so-called green card) and it takes many years (especially for those of Indian and Chinese origin). These are workers who are already working in the U.S. LAWFULLY with visas, among which is the H-1B.

Without these workers, the U.S. would be in ever worse position in such important fields as engineering, pharmaceutical research and the hard sciences.

Thanks DemFromMem for your insight.

[FreakinDJ]

39. Is not a H1B a 6 year visa

And exactly how many H1B visa holders every return to the country of origin

[OhioChick]

5. Read this:

DOJ settles H-1B job ad case for $45,000

Complaint filed by Programmers Guild over H-1B-only job ad

May 2, 2008 (Computerworld) A Pittsburgh-based computer consulting company that advertised for H-1B visa holders only is paying $45,000 in civil penalties to settle allegations that it discriminated against U.S. citizens, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) said Thursday.

The company, iGate Mastech Inc., placed 30 job announcements between May and June of 2006 "for computer programmers that expressly favored H-1B visa holders to the exclusion of U.S. citizens, lawful permanent residents and other legal U.S. workers," the DOJ said in a statement.

A complaint against iGate Mastech was filed by the Programmers Guild in 2006. It was one of dozens of complaints lodged by the Summit, N.J.-based organization against various companies.

John Miano, who founded the guild, said in a statement that the DOJ's announcement was "is probably the most visible result" of the guild's campaign against companies that discriminate against U.S. workers "in favor of cheap H-1B workers."

One job advertisement by iGate Mastech for a Java developer on Dice Holdings Inc.'s job board said "Only H-1s apply, and should be willing to transfer H-1B."

"The problem of companies only looking for H-1B workers is a serious one," said Miano. "We are only scratching the surface right now with the companies that are brazen enough to put out ads like these."

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9081898&intsrc=hm_list

[FreakinDJ]

8. Great Stuff - thanx Ohio Chick

This needs to be "Front Burner" and part of Obama's campaign if we are going to win in Ohio

[OhioChick]

10. Ohio has been neck and neck....

And that's NOT good. Many thanks to you for bringing light to this issue. :thumbsup:

[FreakinDJ]

16. Difficult to imagine the lack of Dem votes there

They have been hit so hard by the closing of so many manufacturing jobs. I know the Rush Limpballs spew was it was all the Democrats / Tree Hugger's fault and many of them bought into it up until the last 2 yrs.

But I do think that should be turning around as a lot of them have begun to see the bigger picture with so many companies going to China

[OhioChick]

19. Half of Ohio walks around with blinders on....

It's shocking, to say the least.

[barbtries]

17. and this law firm's schtick

is to circumvent the law and teach companies how to pretend they're looking for qualified applicants among american citizens, so they never have to pay a fine themselves.

[DemFromMem]

25. This case has nothing to do with the legal process discussed in the video

The lawsuit you quote has to do with violating anti-discrimination rules contained in the Section 274A, B and C of the Immigration and Nationality Act. The video has to do with the labor certification process required under Section 204 of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

Two totally different subjects. And I agree with the finding of the lawsuit, incidentally. But the video has to do with the absurd labor certification process that is not designed to be a real world process. The law firm was inartful in how it advised its clients, but I doubt they violated the law even if the DOL is on their case. The better system would be to allow employers to sponsor green cards when the unemployment rate in a particular occupation approaches what economists label "full employment" (typically around 4% unemployment) - the rate at which qualified workers can find a new position relatively quickly and the rate at which wage inflation is likely to surpass inflation in the general economy. And then perhaps have a tough labor certification recruiting process available for employers who claim to have highly specialized positions that are tough to fill in occupations that are above the threshold rate.

[OhioChick]

27. You agree with only a 45K fine??

:rofl:

[DemFromMem]

29. Psst

You claim to be an immigration lawyer (guess what I am?). Yet you cited a case that had nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Now you change the subject and want me to discuss this case? Sorry.

[OhioChick]

37. Psst....

I wasn't referring to "you" as being an immigration lawyer.

[DemFromMem]

41. Sorry, I thought you were referring to yourself being an immigration lawyer

Was I incorrect? If so, apologies.

[OhioChick]

42. No

Software developer who has taken 7+ pay cuts in the past 6-7 years due to the practice of outsourcing/offshoring/replacement with cheaper H-1B's.

No apology necessary.

[FreakinDJ]

28. That Law firm paid a $42k law suit against them for their pratices

just thought you would like to know

[DemFromMem]

32. Yes and for violations that have nothing to do with the subject of the video

And it brings up the larger point that there are laws on the books to target abusers. I don't have a problem with those laws being enforced.

[FreakinDJ]

34. We BOTH agree enforcement of existing laws is the answer

Focus needs to be placed on the employers

and BTW: that was my opinion concerning the immigration reform debate as well

[DemFromMem]

36. No argument

But I would note that the worst problems concern a relatively small number of employers using a high percentage of the H-1Bs. Most of the violations committed this group of companies - typically foreign-owned firms providing contract labor to US-owned companies - could probably be curtailed with better enforcement. From a policy standpoint, I'd like to see a cap on the PERCENTAGE of H-1B visas that can go to any one employer so that the so-called job shops don't get more than their fair share.

[tpsbmam]

6. Many thanks for posting this.....

A friend of mine recently committed suicide and the H1-B issue was her passion and anathema since most of her potential contracts in the last two years had either been outsourced to foreign countries or given to H1-B visa holders. This is someone who'd always been very successful in her field and now couldn't afford to live. This is a critical issue and has guilty parties pushing H1-B visas on both sides of the aisle (John Kerry comes to mind -- he was her senator). It's all to benefit their owners: the corporations.

[barbtries]

12. outrageous

let's boycott the companies, who are they? what scum. what fucking scum. this whole ethic of all that matters is the bottom line is fucking inhuman.

[treestar]

13. Look at the law

They have to place these ads. If an American applies and is qualified, they can't hire the alien. They have to pay the prevailing wage and prove it.

This is spreading false information. The immigration laws are very restrictive and go out of their way to protect Americans. Pretending to be their victim is disingenous.

[OhioChick]

15. See post #5. n/t

[FreakinDJ]

18. You lost me on that 1

So much well documented information on the net and so many successful law suits proving Big Business is using H1Bs to suppress American wages

[OhioChick]

20. Psst....

Immigration attorney.

[Greyhound]

33. A law, even when one exists, is only as good as the enforcement of it.

Both the Junta and Clinton administrations refused to investigate, let alone prosecute, for violations of this absurd abuse of the political process.

[countryjake]

49. And they never will, as long as we allow it.

Corporate class fears one thing...worldwide strikes on each and every one of their monopolies.

Tech workers could shut down communications around the globe if they recognized the common ground and real power they actually hold. A mere threat to do so could win a multitude of grievances, but it takes unity.

[Greyhound]

51. "it takes unity" and enforced laws. Worker strikes are illegal in many countries,

and we can't do anything about that, here.
:kick: