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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:09 PM
Original message
911 Truth movement getting some major exposure right now on MSNBC.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. details, summary for us cube rats?
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Truth movement folks pretty much spoiled a conversation
that was going on outside the convention center between Norah O'Donell and a Repub pundit by chanting 911 Truth Now while holding up signs.
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ORDagnabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. until we get a real investigation into our own reichstag event I support those willing to interrupt
business as usual.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Even if they shut down your job, childcare or other daily need of yours?
How much are you willing to have interrupted to get a real investigation into our own
reichstag? Is this investigation to prove it was a "reichstag" event or is it for something
more sinister?
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Aren't you willing to endure minor inconveniences (short-term) now
versus major long term hardship later? I am!

Something has to Wake Up America!

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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I support them too and am glad to see them getting some exposure.
I think our government attacked itself. I hope this exposure gets more people looking more deeply into it.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. They did that during the Dem Convention too..
it was pretty hilarious. Tweety got pretty pissy. What's he doing now?
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah, they made asses of themselves in Denver, too. Glad to see they're exposing themselves to a
national audience for the fruitcakes they are - I'm all for it.

:thumbsup:
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. What are they exposing?
Let me guess...they are exposing a banner that says "Expose/Investigate 911".

Could someone sum up all their demands or talking bullets so it can be vetted here?
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Their "demands" are pretty much the same as that of a spoiled child: LOOK AT ME! GIVE ME ATTENTION!!
That pretty much covers it.

Their "evidence" of any such "inside job" is proven false time and time and time again, but lonely, alienated people who feel powerless often cling to conspiratorial myths like that in order not to feel so insignificant. What most of them need is therapy, or a good psychiatrist. And Meds - lots and lots of prescription Meds.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Some known incidents from the past ...
when US government agencies or US military leadership engaged in, or planned, false flag terror attacks (involving loss of life of innocent civilians) or engaged in other war provoking type tactics:

Operation Gladio/Strategy of Tension


Strategy of Tension

SNIP

The “strategy of tension” denotes a highly secretive series of interconnected covert operations conducted jointly by the CIA and MI6 largely in Western Europe during the this period. Well-documented by several respected historians, confirmed by official inquiries, and corroborated by former intelligence officials, the “strategy of tension” is one of those unsavoury moments in contemporary history that we don’t learn about in school, or even university.

My favourite book on the subject, and the most authoritative in my view, is Dr. Daniele Ganser’s NATO’s Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe (2004). Published in the UK as part of the “Contemporary Security Studies” series of London-based academic press Routledge, Ganser’s study is the first major historical work to bring the “strategy of tension” into the mainstream of scholarship.

During the Cold War, indeed through to the late 1980s, the United States, United Kingdom, and Western European governments and secret services, participated in a sophisticated NATO-backed operation to engineer terrorist attacks inside Western Europe, to be blamed on the Soviet Union. The objective was to galvanize public opinion against leftwing policies and parties, and ultimately to mobilize popular support for purportedly anti-Soviet policies at home and abroad – most of which were really designed to legitimize brutal military interventions against nationalist independence movements in the “Third World”.

SNIP

The existence of this secret operation exploded into public controversy when in August 1990 upon the admissions in parliament by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti, the existence of ‘Gladio’ was exposed as a secret sub-section of Italian military-intelligence services, responsible for domestic bombings blamed on Italian Communists. Ganser documents in intricate detail how a subversive network created by elements of western intelligence services – particularly that of the US and UK - orchestrated devastating waves of terrorist attacks blamed on the Soviet Union, not only in Italy, but also in Spain, Germany, France, Turkey, Greece, i.e. throughout western Europe. Despite a number of European parliamentary inquiries; an European Union resolution on the Gladio phenomenon; NATO’s close-doors admissions to European ambassadors; confirmations of the international operation from senior CIA officials; and other damning documentary evidence; NATO, the CIA and MI6 have together consistently declined to release their secret files on the matter.

http://nafeez.blogspot.com/2007/05/strategy-of-tension.html


Operation Northwoods. (Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff planned false flag terror attacks to justify an invasion of Cuba)


U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba
Book: U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba
By David Ruppe
N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001


In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662


Operation Ajax (Overthrow of democratically elected Prime Minister Mussadiq Iran and installation of the Shah as dictator)


A 'great venture': overthrowing the government of Iran
by Mark Curtis

This is a slightly abridged version of part of chapter four of Mark Curtis's book The Ambiguities of Power: British Foreign Policy since 1945 (Zed Press, 1995).

SNIP

The coup decision is taken

The go-ahead for the coup was finally given by the US in late June - Britain by then already having presented a 'complete plan' to the CIA (54) - and Churchill's authorisation soon followed, the date being set for mid-August. (55) That month, the head of the CIA operation met with the Shah, the CIA director visited some members of the Shah's family in Switzerland, whilst a US army general arrived in Tehran to meet 'old friends', among them the Shah and General Zahidi. (56)

When the coup scenario finally began, huge demonstrations proceeded in the streets of Tehran, funded by CIA and MI6 money, $1 million dollars of which was in a safe in the US embassy (57) and £1.5 million which had been delivered by Britain to its agents in Iran, according to the MI6 officer responsible for delivering it. (58)

According to then CIA officer Richard Cottam, 'that mob that came into north Tehran and was decisive in the overthrow was a mercenary mob. It had no ideology. That mob was paid for by American dollars.' (59) One key aspect of the plot was to portray the demonstrating mobs as supporters of the Communist Party - Tudeh - in order to provide a suitable pretext for the coup and the assumption of control by the Shah(my emphasis /JC). Cottam observes that agents working on behalf of the British 'saw the opportunity and sent the people we had under our control into the streets to act as if they were Tudeh. They were more than just provocateurs, they were shock troops, who acted as if they were Tudeh people throwing rocks at mosques and priests'. (60) 'The purpose', Brian Lapping explains, 'was to frighten the majority of Iranians into believing that a victory for Mussadeq would be a victory for the Tudeh, the Soviet Union and irreligion'. (61)

The head of the CIA operation also sent envoys to the commanders of some provincial armies, encouraging them to move on to Tehran. (62) In the fighting in the capital, 300 people were killed before Musaddiq's supporters were defeated by the Shah's forces. AUS general later testified that 'the guns they had in their hands, the trucks they rode in, the armoured cars that they drove through the streets, and the radio communications that permitted their control, were all furnished through the military defence assistance program'. (63)

'All in all', US Iran analyst Barry Rubin comments, 'only five Americans with a half-dozen Iranian contacts had organised the entire uprising'. (64) The British input, however, had clearly been significant. One Iranian agent of the British - Shahpour Reporter, who subsequently served as adviser to the Shah - was later rewarded with a knighthood, before becoming a chief middleman for British arms sales to Iran, in particular for the manufacturers of Chieftain tanks and Rapier missiles. (65) Two years after the coup, the head of the MI6 end of the operation became Director of the Royal Institute of International Affairs, one of Britain's leading 'independent' academic research institutes. (66)

http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/l30iran.htm


Gulf of Tonkin incident (Manufactured to justify further US intervention in Viet Nam)


30-year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War

By Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon

Thirty years ago, it all seemed very clear.

"American Planes Hit North Vietnam After Second Attack on Our Destroyers; Move Taken to Halt New Aggression", announced a Washington Post headline on Aug. 5, 1964.

That same day, the front page of the New York Times reported: "President Johnson has ordered retaliatory action against gunboats and 'certain supporting facilities in North Vietnam' after renewed attacks against American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin."

But there was no "second attack" by North Vietnam — no "renewed attacks against American destroyers." By reporting official claims as absolute truths, American journalism opened the floodgates for the bloody Vietnam War.

A pattern took hold: continuous government lies passed on by pliant mass media...leading to over 50,000 American deaths and millions of Vietnamese casualties.

SNIP

The official story was that North Vietnamese torpedo boats launched an "unprovoked attack" against a U.S. destroyer on "routine patrol" in the Tonkin Gulf on Aug. 2 — and that North Vietnamese PT boats followed up with a "deliberate attack" on a pair of U.S. ships two days later.

The truth was very different.

Rather than being on a routine patrol Aug. 2, the U.S. destroyer Maddox was actually engaged in aggressive intelligence-gathering maneuvers — in sync with coordinated attacks on North Vietnam by the South Vietnamese navy and the Laotian air force.

"The day before, two attacks on North Vietnam...had taken place," writes scholar Daniel C. Hallin. Those assaults were "part of a campaign of increasing military pressure on the North that the United States had been pursuing since early 1964."


http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2261


Can anyone see a pattern here?

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-08 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. In light of all we know of past history and now the circumstances
surrounding 911 itself:

Terror attack warnings had been flooding in for months prior to attacks
Patriot Act written and ready to go as soon as attacks occurred
Pentagon left defenseless and allowed to be hit over an hour after the first hijackings
No one in authority held responsible or made to pay any penalty for screwing up on the job
Anthrax attack coming shortly after 911 using anthrax from US government labs but made to look like it came from Muslim fanatics/terrorists AKA FALSE FLAG ATTACK .
911 Immediately seized upon as excuse to implement the pre-planned PNAC/US hegemony agenda.

and not suspect that there was some type of subterfuge and collusion on the part of some US government agents or agencies in causing or permitting the 9/11 attacks is beyond me.


Trying to Avoid Pain, Americans Have Only Delayed the Invevitable and Allowed the Cancer to Spread

I understand that people are afraid to face the fact that 9/11 and the anthrax attacks were inside jobs, because that would be painful. It would challenge their assumptions of benign father figures running our government, and would mean that there is no Santa Claus and governments sometimes do horrible things to their own people to justify power-grabs. (Despite my sarcasm, I actually try to sympathize with people who are locked in a prison of fear).

But if Americans had gotten a spine a couple of years ago and had the courage to deal with reality, we could have thrown the bums behind these false flag attacks out on their ears (and into jail), held a truth and reconciliation commission, appointed honest leaders, gone through the healing process, and gotten back on track towards the effort to try to make real what the Founding Fathers wrote about in the Constitution.

Instead, due to Americans' pain-avoidance tactics and their tremendous efforts to deny reality in order to avoid unpleasant truths, things have gotten worse: freedoms have been more widely abused, costly new wars have been planned, fascism has become more entrenched.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/trying-to-avoid-pain-americans-have.html
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. "Freedoms have been more widely abused,....fascism has become more entrenched".

(Go to original for embedded links)

What the Violence Against Protesters at the Convention Really Means

A classified FBI intelligence memorandum gives police detailed instructions on how to target and monitor lawful political demonstrations under the rubric of fighting terrorism. And the Joint Terrorism Task Force was involved in infiltrating, tracking and disrupting every-day Americans who disagree with the current administration's policies.

While the ACLU calls such tactics "a return to the days of J. Edgar Hoover's spying tactics", that is not an accurate description.

While Hoover's FBI had its "enemies list", and carried out numerous dirty tricks including Cointelpro, the current governmental actions are a lot worse.

For example, according to a law school professor, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 has the following consequences:

"Anyone who donates money to a charity that turns up on Bush's list of 'terrorist' organizations, or who speaks out against the government's policies could be declared an 'unlawful enemy combatant' and imprisoned indefinitely. That includes American citizens."

According to the New York Times:

"A dangerously broad definition of “illegal enemy combatant” in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted."

And according to a Yale law professor, "The legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."

After they disappear into the black hole of enemy combatant status, they may, of course, also be tortured.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/what-violence-against-protesters-at.html
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. RNC 8 Charged as Terrorists Under State Patriot Act
RNC 8 Charged as Terrorists Under State Patriot Act

By Bruce Nestor

04/09/08 "ICH" -- - Ramsey County Charges RNC 8 Under State Patriot Act, Alleges Acts of Terrorism

In what appears to be the first use of criminal charges under the 2002 Minnesota version of the Federal Patriot Act, Ramsey County Prosecutors have formally charged 8 alleged leaders of the RNC Welcoming Committee with Conspiracy to Riot in Furtherance of Terrorism. Monica Bicking, Eryn Trimmer, Luce Guillen Givins, Erik Oseland, Nathanael Secor, Robert Czernik, Garrett Fitzgerald, and Max Spector, face up to 7 1/2 years in prison under the terrorism enhancement charge which allows for a 50% increase in the maximum penalty.

Affidavits released by law enforcement which were filed in support of the search warrants used in raids over the weekend, and used to support probable cause for the arrest warrants, are based on paid, confidential informants who infiltrated the RNCWC on behalf of law enforcement. They allege that members of the group sought to kidnap delegates to the RNC, assault police officers with firebombs and explosives, and sabotage airports in St. Paul. Evidence released to date does not corroborate these allegations with physical evidence or provide any other evidence for these allegations than the claims of the informants. Based on past abuses of such informants by law enforcement, the National Lawyers Guild is concerned that such police informants have incentives to lie and exaggerate threats of violence and to also act as provacateurs in raising and urging support for acts of violence.

“These charges are an effort to equate publicly stated plans to blockade traffic and disrupt the RNC as being the same as acts of terrorism. This both trivializes real violence and attempts to place the stated political views of the Defendants on trial,” said Bruce Nestor, President of the Minnesota Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild. “The charges represent an abuse of the criminal justice system and seek to intimidate any person organizing large scale public demonstrations potentially involving civil disobedience, he said.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20690.htm


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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
41. great posts! Thank you. nt
:hi:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. Morons on TV
Wow.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. SOME OF US ARE AT WORK AND CAN'T WATCH FUCKING TEEVEE ALL DAY
What the FUCK are you blathering about, and WHY did you post it in GD instead of the September 11 Dungeon?

:nuke:
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm at work, slackmaster....
But my students are taking a test and I'm pretending to go over tomorrow's lecture notes.

:rofl:
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. Those Looney Tooneys Again? All Their Exposure Does Is Cause People To Look At The Screen And Say
"Who are those irrational whackjobs?"

They should hand out handfuls of thorazine at those gatherings lol.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. Actually, that was my reaction to watching the RePuke convention.
:crazy:
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. MITHOP
or LITHOP? I don't care how crazy it sounds, the signs were ignored and Bush spent 40% of his time on vacation. They used the event to their advantage, dishonoring the tragedy, for self gain. If you ask me they might as well have caused it.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Psychologically America's not prepared for either.
Hence the desire for so many folks, even at DU, to get so upset and spew so many vitriolic words. Normal debate goes out the window. Even for so called "liberal" people who would normally apply the rules of physics to everything. Physics gets kicked aside when it come to 9/11. After all we were attacked. That concept of America as "the Beacon of Hope" and "The Shining Light On The Hill" can't be touched.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-08 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. 9/11 Truth Movement is a Joke
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Stump Donating Member (808 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-08 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thanks for the laugh...
That site is rather entertaining...
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victordrazen Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. The joke is that there is no proof of anything on 9-11
It is just a bunch of myths.
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mrharvard Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. There's enough evidence for Treason Convictions
http://www.RobertsCourt.com would bring Treason charges against all conspirators:

“... to appoint an Independent Prosecutor under the authority of Article III(3) of the U.S. Constitution to prosecute Treason against these United States of America by U.S. President George W. Bush, U.S. Vice President Richard Cheney, U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and other John and Jane Does for planning and carrying out the acts of treason, as defined in Article III(3) of the U.S. Constitution, by conspiring to carry out, carrying out and/or causing to be carried out an armed attack upon these United States on September 11, 2001, in the guise of a strategic deception operation” based upon the Northwoods Terror Deception.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Do you believe we have been told the whole truth as to what happened that day?
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. They are the left's version of creationists.
Idiots who don't know enough to realize how stupid the "proofs" they are feed really are.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Do you believe Philip Zelikow?
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Depends on what he's asking me to believe
If he says to believe him that the sun is coming up tomorrow morning, yes.
If he says to believe him and he tries to sell me half the crackpot stuff spouted in the dungeon, then no.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Do you believe he was completely honest with the 9/11 Commission?
Edited on Fri Sep-05-08 07:29 PM by seemslikeadream
"Why didn't Phil Zelikow make reviewing vital NSA documents a Commission priority?"


http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=9156

The widows whose political activism was largely responsible for the establishment of a commission to investigate the September 11 attacks say a new book revealing the backstory of the 9/11 Commission proves that their initial concerns about its executive director were correct and demonstrate the need for another investigation.

.....

"General Michael Hayden, who headed the NSA at the time, was eager to cooperate and share what his organization had with the 9/11 Commission, but Executive Director Zelikow was not interested," 9/11 widows Patty Casazza, Monica Gabriellle, Mindy Kleinberg and Lorie Van Auken said in a statement reacting to the book.

"Why didnt Phil Zelikow make reviewing these vital NSA documents a Commission priority?" they ask. "It seems clear that not every fact and lead was followed in this investigation compromising the validity of the Commission's final report and its findings."

The 9/11 widows called for Zelikow to resign or be fired from the Commission back in 2004, when his ties with Rice and Rove were first revealed. Shenon's book, they say, proves their concerns were right all along.

"It is abundantly clear that Philip Zelikow should have immediately been replaced when the first rumblings of his impropriety and conflicts of interest surfaced," they said. "When all of this information became clear, the Commissioners and the press should have called for Zelikows resignation. We did. Shamefully, most were silent."
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. That's it?
He had ties to Rice and Rove? Big whoop.

What's the worst thing he did? Try to keep the commission from reporting on how incompetent the administration was? Hell, we knew that already.


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. No NO that is definitly not "it" It is only the beginning!
Edited on Fri Sep-05-08 07:55 PM by seemslikeadream
You want more?? I've got plenty



Zelikow IMAGINING THE TRANSFORMING EVENT December 1998

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=161464




or maybe this one




If journalists write that they believe LIHOP/MIHOP,
will they be banned from the mainstream media?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=137814
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Again. Big Whoop.
Much ado about nothing.

Little shit like that might seem like a big deal in the dungeon, but in the real world, you need real big proof if you ever want intelligent people to buy your theories.

It's been seven years and there is nothing. I've seen all of the supposed "evidence" and it's a pile of nothing or worse.

9/11 conspiracy nuts are just like creationists, who have their own websites, videos and "proofs" that evolution is false. Each claims the "truth" is being withheld and suppressed. Each group claims there is retaliation for those that dare to speak the "truth". Each group claims their evidence is finally "getting out". Each group claims large numbers of believers who "can't all be wrong".

Bottom line: Each group is populated by fools.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. I don't think we are talking about the same thing
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. AGAIN DO YOU BELIEVE YOU GOT THE TRUTH FROM THE 9/11 COMMISSION?
Edited on Fri Sep-05-08 09:14 PM by seemslikeadream
I am not talking about "conspiracies theories" here, I am asking AGAIN do you believe you got the whole truth from the 9/11 Commission?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Take a look at a 2004 confrontation between a couple of heroes and Zelikow


in the Bay Area. (Jump to 1:53 for Zelikow--see the look on his face!)
but it's all good.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8888742751442686831


http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13

Shenon told Terri Gross that Zelikow was the architect of Richard
Clarke's demotion so he no longer had cabinet-level access.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. I am not stupid.
Thank you very much.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. They aren't the left's version of anything.
I don't believe the Bush apologists are liberals any more than the Oswald apologists or Sirhan apologists are.

The Bush Crime Family has been caught in lie after lie about everything they did before 9-11-01, and everything they did after 9-11-01. So why would anybody believe that on that one day, they actually told the truth?
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Actually it's you that comes closer to the creationist here in this thread.
Edited on Fri Sep-05-08 08:47 PM by wildbilln864
You believe the gubment's lies with no real proof of anything and then attack those who do question. Just like creationists, you can't debate the facts, instead you can only slander. :rofl:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. EXCELLENT
Everyone knows that we have not been told the truth, there is plenty of speculation about what that truth is, get Zelikow on the stand
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
30. Shenon, in his NPR interview, talks about Al Qaeda links with Iran found at the NSA


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18660248

The Commission staffers went for a weekend to the NSA and found "explosive material", evidence that the "government of Iran and Hezbollah" assisted Al Qaeda 1-1/2 years before 9/11/01.

He says no one has gone in to review this material since. The Commission staff think someone should look at it. When asked why didn't the staff go to the NSA in the beginning, (the NSA invited investigations of the raw data), Shenon says, "The CIA was the sexier agency to investigate....The CIA is like Hollywood and the NSA is like ."

This Iran-Al Qaeda information has been around since July 16, 2004. Time reported it.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,664967,00.html
Philip Shenon at the NY Times reported it July 18, 2004.

My question: Why didn't the authorities jump on this information and use it to go after Iran?

Could it be that Zelikow had marching orders to find links to Iraq, that weren't found? "To his credit" he did sign off on no-evidence-of-links-to-Iraq but he did help create the it's-okay-to-have-preemptive-war document.
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mrharvard Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
31. RobertsCourt.com Supreme Court should bring Treason Charges
http://www.RobertsCourt.com would bring Treason charges against all conspirators:

“... to appoint an Independent Prosecutor under the authority of Article III(3) of the U.S. Constitution to prosecute Treason against these United States of America by U.S. President George W. Bush, U.S. Vice President Richard Cheney, U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and other John and Jane Does for planning and carrying out the acts of treason, as defined in Article III(3) of the U.S. Constitution, by conspiring to carry out, carrying out and/or causing to be carried out an armed attack upon these United States on September 11, 2001, in the guise of a strategic deception operation” based upon the Northwoods Terror Deception.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. welcome to DU mrharvard...
and I'll pre-emptively welcome you to the DUngeon. :hi:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
35. Ben-Veniste admits 9/11 Commission knew about Tenet briefings
Ben-Veniste admits 9/11 Commission knew about Tenet briefings


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=145883


by jennifer poole
Mon Oct 02, 2006 at 09:44:18 PM PST
9/11 Commissioner Richard Ben-Veniste "confirmed to McClatchy Newspapers" today that George Tenet had given secret testimony to the 9/11 Commission in January 2004 about his attempts to convince the White House about the urgency of the threat from bin Laden in the summer of 2001. Tenet told the 9/11 Commission he was willing to testify publicly about the briefings he'd given Rice -- and Ashcroft and Rumsfeld! -- in July 2001, and he'd even showed the commissioners slides from the PowerPoint presentation he'd prepared for the July briefings.

Ben-Veniste did NOT explain why the 9/11 Commissioners left these briefings out of their report -- or why he (as late as yesterday) was still lying about what the 9/11 Commission knew. Instead he:


referred questions about why the commission omitted any mention of the briefing in its report to Zelikow, the report's main author. Zelikow didn't respond to e-mail and telephone queries from McClatchy Newspapers.
I say "briefings" because it's not just "the Rice briefing," folks -- yes, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft got the damned briefing, too:

jennifer poole's diary :: ::
as the McClatchy story leads off:
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
39. 9/11 truth ends war! nt
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