School/Pregnancy timeline..Make your own conclusions

[SoCalDem]

There are two schools of thought here:

The Palin folks persist in using ambiguous words when it comes to dates, and Bristol's whereabouts..

Bristol left school due to mono for "a few/several months"..
Bristol left school "mid-term" of the school year..or "around" the middle of school.
She has been reported to have been "staying with her Aunt"
Sarah popped up all-of-a-sudden pregnant, after not looking or acting a bit pregnant, at "about 7 months pregnant"
Bristol has dated Levi for "about a year"
Now Bristol is "about 5 months pregnant"
Her baby is due "around Christmas"

Yet their SON joined the military on EXACTLY 9-11-07 , and will deploy on 9-11-08

There is NO ambiguity on those two patriotic days..

Word is that Bristol's pregnancy is/was NO secret in & around Wasilla...Which pregnancy? One? Both?

Last August (07) , although there were websites pushing for Palin to be vp, the Palin family was still mostly off the radar, so a teen pregnancy would have been of little consequence except for the locals, so pulling the girl from school (how 1950's of them) would have been not so unusual for Palin, due to her religious stance. Teens often do not "show" until about 4 months, so what if Bristol did not TELL Mom until then...Dec /Jan would be in the mushy middle of the school year..

An infant who weighed 6lb & change in April, a baby with Down syndrome, could also have been a baby born to a teenager , say in March (early March?), and then just tucked away until Mom's "miracle pregnancy" could be established... How do we KNOW the birth weight is accurate or even the birth date.

The ONLY REAL dates we know, are the dates when she TOLD people she was "about" 7 months pregnant (because other people substantiated that date, and there are hard-copy news sources to verify that date, and then the date she flew home, because there were people at her meeting in Texas, and people on the plane, and of course the photo in the paper the next day.

Those are the ONLY substantiated dates surrounding little Trig.

She RAN the show up there, folks.. and she's well-known to be a secretive , calculating person.

When this was all happening, she could have just been doing what SHE thought was prudent, for the baby, for her daughter.

I'm guessing that they FREAKED out when Bristol delivered a preemie baby with Down syndrome, and THAT'S when Mom concocted her "plan"..(at that time...March would be my guess).. A baby born to a 16 year old, a baby with Down syndrome would be most likely raised by Sarah & Todd anyway, so why not just "go with it".. Maybe they thought the "mono story" was working, so no harm done.

This is NOT an uncommon occurrence in close-knit, somewhat backward communities...especially with very religious communities.. As long as they reconcile this within their own tight little group, everyone keeps the secret, and just goes on with their lives..

Bristol's (now known) "tantrum" about the rushed marriage that Mom planned for her, and the fact that no one told the kids that Mom was chosen to run for vice president tells me all I need to know about this family.. They are NOT the Waltons.. These kids are props..out of the loop on most family decisions, and their input is not needed at all..

Dad's gone oil-working/fishing/snowmobiling/going to work with Sarah, and we KNOW that Sarah is a gallivanter.. Those kids raise themselves..

Which brings me to my main point.

If Trig is really Bristol's baby and she was pissed at Mom for "taking her baby" (kids could easily have an over-romanticized view, and not realize the rigors of actually raising a handicapped child), is it out of the realm of possibility that she got pregnant AGAIN, as an in-your-face gesture to Mom?

A June pregnancy would make her 4 months( about 5 months?) pregnant now, and remember Sarah only found out she would BE the veep pick LAST WEEK..

Maybe she thought the "baby-fat" on Bristol was "left over", and not a "new" one..

OR she may have known that the deception would come out now about Trig's miraculous birth, and is forcing Bristol to go along with the NEW plan, along with a shotgun wedding, and then a staged "miscarriage"..all to cover for a batch of lies cooked up months ago..because NOW those lies might come out..

Back then it was just a local thing, and not many people (outside their own little area) knew or cared ..

The whole fact that investigating or questioning this, is now being spun as sexist and overly intrusive, may be the way they pull this off..

And for people who question how this could be managed in this day and age, I say this.. Popular governor with many friends she placed in high places, combined with sympathy over the fate of a tiny little baby boy who is handicapped, can make people "forget", "overlook", "cover up".... and the baby himself, only makes her a MORE appealing/sympathetic person.

Most people these days have had someone inside their family who has faced a teen pregnancy, a baby born with health issues, or a rebellious young teen.. they have faced the hardship of being a working-mom who somehow loses control over teenagers, and many would also understand how a Mom would do almost anything to help a child/grandchild...so suspending disbelief is not hard to understand..

I think that Sarah found herself caught in a big-ole lie, and is either forcing Bristol to "go along" as payback for what Mom has done for her, by claiming Trig as her own, or Bristol is paying mom back for "taking her baby"..

We may never know for sure, but the time-line I made up shows that it's entirely possible for Bristol to be mother to BOTH babies, or that Trig is the ONLY baby, and she's being forced into another weird cover-up.....marriage/miscarriage ...because NOW Mom is on the national stage and panic has set in..

The National Enquirer is on the scene up there, but because small towns line up as "enemy vs friend", we may never really "know for sure"..

For those of us who searched immediately after the big announcement, we found many pictures online..all over the web, and especially on the Alaska State website. As soon as this started to percolate, that site was thoroughly cleansed, and now almost EVERY picture has NO EXIF data with it, and sometimes even captions have been changed. Dates for the same pictures are "all over the place", or undated.

One thing I can foresee, is that somewhere down the line, Bristol and her sisters may be in need of some serious mental health counseling.

I think this is just a plan gone VERY wrong, and they are desperately trying to work their way out of it..

Mom has backed herself into a corner, and is either grandmother to two children born to her teen daughter in a little over a year (not impossible)...or she's grandmother to one, and is forcing her daughter into an elaborate scam to cover the fact that she claimed the grandchild as her own, and Bristol did not lose the baby fat soon enough..

It may all end up a moot point, if enough of the religious fundies decide that none of it matters, and the press gets cold feet and quits searching.....

EIGHT years of stonewalling and refusal to show documents or undergo serious questioning should have taught us all a lesson about how this stuff works.. If McCain manages to "win", the questions will all stop.. we know that..

And for those who still want to bash on me for "going there", it matters because it's about the LYING, and the calculated coldness of it all.. A mother who would do this to her own children, is capable of a lot worse things when it concerns US..

[Mrs. Overall]

1. Oh my god! The baby is due at Christmas? Can you imagine the manger scene

in front of Wasilla City Hall?

[Pachamama]

40. The right wing fundies will start thinking its the 2nd coming of Jesus w/ the birth

of the next Palin grandchild....

God help us all.... :eyes:

[FatDave]

66. I kind of wonder why they didn't go with the emacculate conception angle.

The fundies would believe it. The believe anything.

[valerief]

2. The official story makes NO sense, as you so clearly point out.

I'm of the "only one baby and a convenient miscarriage" theory, but I hadn't considered the "second vengeance baby" idea. That's a real possibility.

Now that I think of it, there may be only one baby but there will be no miscarriage. It's easy for those in power to "get a baby" when the due date approaches.

I don't know how successful the National Enquirer will be in digging up the truth. The Repair Squad sent up there by McCain must be buying/scaring the shit out of/doing the ultimate worst to Alaskans who can provide the truth.

:kick:

[trashcanistanista]

3. I agree with you an two fronts.

1. Trig is Bristol's baby.
2. We should go there - her mother is a coniving lying hypocrital bully and I wouldn't put it past her, and we need to take her down. At this point it is ALL about the mom, not the daughter. This woman should not get near the White House.
3. Using her her daughter and grandson in her campaign and subjecting them to massive public scrutiny is horrific.

BUT

3. It would be best to sit on the story until October.

[ayak9]

9. I predict a miscarriage in the next few weeks.

Lies are hard to cover up. You need more lies to cover previous lies, and soon you can't keep track of them. It's not the crime, it's the cover-up that usually sinks them.

[SoCalDem]

12. It has to be soon, because if the "pregnancy" goes too much further

they might have to even have a fake funeral..:(

My friend miscarried at a bit past 6 months, and the borth was called a stillbirth, and they had to have a burial.. It was a heartbreaking thing to go through..

It may depend on the state, but I hope Sarah has considered this (if the miscarriage thing is next in the plan)

[LeftyMom]

119. They're fundies. They'd probably have one anyhow.

LK's Dad's ex is a fundamentalpatient of a the first order. She had a miscarriage at 3 months, and had a burial (of what I do not know- nasty kotex?) complete with graveside service, neighbors bringing over casseroles, etc.

They have to do the whole routine to show the community that they believe that every sperm is sacred.

[dkofos]

20. Followed by "It's was all the liberal media's fault that I lost my baby"

Followed by the sympathy vote.

[SoCalDem]

24. That's what I am thinking will happen

and the fundie base will go WILD..

I can almost see the headlines:

Republican Veep Choice Loses First Grandchild to Tragic Miscarriage"

Sources close to the family report that they are DEVASTATED at the loss of their much-anticipated grandchild.. Their daughter Bristol suffered a miscarriage. It's reported by close friends that she had been under a lot of stress, due to all the scrutiny, and constant pressure of the press.Sarah Palin asks us all to pray for her beloved little grandchild, and to keep the family in their prayers during this very sad time

Can't you just see this, too?

[dysfunctional press]

32. it's called an "october surprise".

although it's not much of a surprise when you can see it barreling down the tracks at you.

funny thing is- if the same situation had happened to say- chelsea clinton, they'd be ALL OVER what a horrid job of parenting that was done.

they own the media, they own the message. we are SO royally FUCKED come november...check and mate.

[zazen]

14. since older fathers contribute to Downs' risk, are you suggesting Trig's dad isn't boyfriend?

Thank you all for raising this. It is relevant when Palin's policies of abstinence only education and the abolition of abortion rights could inflict awful consequences on other families that hers won't have to suffer to the same degree.

But w/r/t to the theory, if Bristol's really not pregnant now, could they coerce this 18-year-old into marrying her if he knows there's no baby? Most 18-year-old guys I know don't want to get married. And if he's not the father of this one, are you saying he was the father of Trig, or could that possibly have been by another, perhaps older man, given the research that now suggests they also greatly contribute to Downs' syndrome risk?

I wonder if the Enquirer has looked into that.

Poor kids. That woman is a monster. I do think of the pro-theocracy characters in the Handmaid's Tale, like the wife who took Offred's baby. Championing their own subjugation. Dworkin's book _Right Wing Women_ is as spot on today as it was in the late 70s.

[SoCalDem]

17. Very young girls DO have Downs syndrome babies

and it's likley that the boyfriend is the dad.. It's MORE likely in older women, but it still happens in young girls.. She may not have even had an ultrasound (the secrecy thing y'know). The Downs diagnosis may have come as a complete surprise..hence the panic) he could have been born early in March at a 5 pounder, and was "introduced" as Sarah's 6 lb newborn in April..:shrug:

Remember.. the DOCTOR is her gal-pal..the same one she (Sarah) has named to many a high profile appointment in Alaska. In small towns, "these things" get "worked out" all the time..

[norepubsin08]

29. Absolutely Todd is the Daddy

Happens in almost all fundementalist/evangelical families...daddy is the Lord of the House and what the Lord wants-the Lord gets!!!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

135. What happens if he's not

[Sequoia]

60. Maybe her dad's the dad. All those "Purity Balls".

That redneck boyfriend of hers should get tested. But even if he declares he's not the father the Palin's will not let him be tested...just go along to get along.

[pnwmom]

4. One thing that supports your theory is that a staff member of Palin's

in an interview in the media says that she told him no later than March that there were rumors then about Bristol being pregnant but they were false.

Why were rumors about her being pregnant going around by early March, if she is only 5 months pregnant now?

[MiniMe]

65. If she is really pregnant, and if this is the 2nd pregnancy,

she probably popped out right away being as close to the first one as she is.

I agree it's possible. I just hate to go there.

Or it could still be baby weight.

[murray hill farm]

5. I am not going to bash ya!

I believe that they lied about how many monthes preggers the girl is now...and I do think this is important to keep out there. The National inguirer will keep it going....they love this stuff.

[SoCalDem]

35. I hope they focus on REAL dates..

I want to know what her last day of school was LAST winter
and her attendance dates THIS spring..

If she's only "about 5 months NOW", WHY was she out of school and "appearing to be" pregnant in MARCH of this year?

I'd also like to see some birth info on Trig ..
and a paternity DNA (NOT done in Alaska), along with Sarah & Todd's DNA..

If Todd is not the daddy, it's a whole new ballgame..

[murray hill farm]

73. Well, if you think about it,

this whole thing could have been resolved by a simple dna test of Sarah and trig. It would have been a quite and simple solution, that if it is as they say and sarah is the mother, we would all look like gossipy fools and she would have been the vindicated victim. They know that...and if they could have done this simple thing, they would have in a heartbeat. It would have been way too good to pass up. But they did not...and I think by their actions, we have the answer.

[quercus palustris]

6. I think that Bristol is pregnant and that Trig is hers.

Too many loose ends. I'm intrigued by the vengeance idea.

I don't know why such a huge cover up shouldn't be important. I don't believe that Obama's campaign should go there. It's not politically expedient, but I think that others should absolutely investigate because something is very wrong with the story. Palin demonstrates a disturbing pattern of lying, and this one might be the biggest one. Not only has she dragged her children into this, but she uses it to score political points.

I don't care that a her daughter is pregnant. I care about the lies surrounding the pregnancy and Sarah Palin's public positions regarding pregnancy, sex ed, and abortion.

[SoCalDem]

8. Exactly.. This may be why she was chosen

Any way she is investigated can always be spun as "picking" on a lady with a handicapped baby and a pregnant teen..and the back-story is never touched..

[LiberalEsto]

7. Bristol should flee and go live with the Clintons

After all, the Clintons managed to raise a decent, responsible, well-educated daughter. They have the abilities and resources to ensure that Bristol gets a good education and makes a decent life for herself.

[SoCalDem]

10. I am MORE worried about the two OTHER daughters

can you imagine how THEY are feeling..?

[LiberalEsto]

18. FREE BRISTOL, WILLOW AND PIPER!

Prisoners of religious hypocrisy.

[norepubsin08]

31. Pretty soon

their daddy will make sure they are mommy's also!

[moriah]

11. As far as the pictures...

Here's a fairly slender woman from 8 weeks pregnant (the first picture) to 40 weeks pregnant (the last picture).



If Sarah only got to 8 months, if her baby wasn't due for another month, then she would never have gotten to the very last photo in the animation.

[SoCalDem]

13. That's a cool animation.. She was brave to wear those bikini underwear

By 6 months, I gave up on pretty undies, and graduated to the Sears OVER the belly "BIG girl panties".:rofl:

[moriah]

22. I'm not pregnant and I wear "Big Girl Panties"!

More comfortable since I'm a touch overweight.

A friend of mine, when she went through her pregnancy, kept wearing low-rises and bikinis because she said that the elastic band on briefs was uncomfortable and she preferred to just have them sit lower if they were going to keep sliding down anyway. :)

And at six months she was actually a touch smaller than the person in this photo series, or at least she appeared smaller. Then again, she is tall. She could have disguised her pregnancy until 6 or 7 months, but she was so excited that as soon as she developed a "bump" she was wearing clothes to show it off.

When she first got pregnant I took her to Dillard's and we got a few things that, while they weren't true maternity clothes, could be worn until probably 4 or 5 months over the summer and still be comfortable. She loved the little black velvet tank top -- it was elastic through the bust and then pleated and loose from there down, kind of like a short babydoll nightie, with spaghetti straps. She was actually able to wear it at 6 months, but by then it was way too cold to be wearing a tank top!

And it was only eight dollars! I love Dillards and their 75% off sales.... :)

[SoCalDem]

25. My friend started wearing her husband's boxers

ted would get so mad.. He finally told her.. "Either quit wearing MY underwear or buy US some more"..

[tavalon]

43. A woman who has had more than one kid shows earlier and more

than a woman who has never had a pregnancy.

[SoCalDem]

45. That's why her story is so cockamamie

that picture given to the AP on Sunday was probably of her first pregnancy and even then she was as big as a house.. The hairstyle leads me to believe that it was her pregnancy with Track.. (the red shirt photo)

A picture of her pregnant with PIPER (7 years ago) would be more telling, but with a 5th child, those muscles pooch out pretty fast :)

Elasticity is not the same after 4..no matter how "in shape" you might be :)

[shellgame26]

15. I'm with ya

The whole alleged water-breaking incident followed by a 30 minute speech then flight for several hours (where flight attendants claim she did not appear to be pregnant or to be in any kind of distress) then a 45 min drive to a very close doctor-friend who apparently was not even an expert in trisomy 21, explanation is so far-fetched it requires far too much congnitive dissonance to disspel. Not to mention the FACT that THERE IS STILL NO FRIGGIN' BIRTH CERTIFICATE FOR THIS CHILD!!! Yet the 'decency police' keeps imploring everyone to just shut up and stop thinking about it.
It seems that this is just the tip of a massive cover-up.

[Fumesucker]

16. Good post and I agree.. One minor quibble .. It's "Down syndrome" not "Down's" or "Downs". n/t

[SoCalDem]

19. Thanks.. I'll fix it..

:)

[madeline_con]

116. It used to be "Down's Syndrome". That's why the new

spelling in the past few years seemed weird to me. I remember when it was spelled differently.

[Celebration]

21. The hospital doesn't list the birth of Trig

That's another "doesn't add up" fact.

[WA98296]

27. Right, at least on April 18th...did we check other "dates"?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. I checked other dates over the weekend and there are no other entries although though

at Alaska Daily News, they do announce the baby was born at the hospital in a list of babies born there during a certain time period. If you want the link ask me and I'll find it later.

[SoCalDem]

39. That calendar has been posted many times, and does not prove or disprove anything

Just more "fudging" on dates.. We havbe no way of knowing if the baby was even born IN the hospital.. The doctor is a "gal-pal"..

When we lived in New Mexico, our family doctor was also our next door neighbor.. We RARELY went to his office.. He checked out our kids by his pool or after dinner at our house or after a panicky call-out over the fence.. Our meds were often free samples just handed to us.

Do we really think that Sarah's pal/doctor would no "help her oout" on her "problem"?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

47. Not to sound like Colbert, but my gut feeling is 100% with you on this.

I don't even put it passed the doctor to have made a false birth certificate.

[SoCalDem]

49. That would be the easiest part of it..

especially with a house-call delivery..

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

61. Easy as pie. I was born with an internal bs meter. It really has proved

95% right of the time when it comes to situations, and this whole baby Trig thing just keeps ringing off those alarm bells with me. Not showing the pregnancy, the water breaking in a high risk pregnancy and with the waiting and flying time over 24 hours to get to a health professional??? Hell, my ob/gyn in my last pregnancy broke my water to Hasten delivery! lol! I was high risk too and gave birth at 39+ years.

[madeline_con]

117. There's a kid with no parents...

[SoCalDem]

120. what date was that??

any in March? I lost that link:)

[madeline_con]

128. Around the same day Trig supposedly born. Scrubbed? n/t

[emmadoggy]

53. I'm wondering, though,

don't the parents have to sign a release for their baby to be included in the hospital listings? It seems to me, when my twins were born, that we had to sign something for our babies to be put in the newspaper. Of course, our hospital publishes all the little newborn pics, so it may have simply been a release to publish their PICTURE, not the actual birth info. I don't know - those days were a complete blur for me!

Anyway, just wondering if they would have had to consent to have the birth info released by the hospital. :shrug:

[arcadian]

23. The answer is simple

Find out where both women get their hair done and get a DNA sample from both. Don't know how you would get it from the baby though, tossed diaper per haps.

[SoCalDem]

28. That may be against the law..

You may have to get permission to have DNA tests run on other people..

But mitochondrial DNA would show Sarah's DNA in the mix anyway, since she the grandmother.. BUT Trig's DNA should be from Todd or the story's obviously fake..

[shellgame26]

26. Here's where things may start to get really ugly

Mr."sex on wheels" Levi (name given to him by The New Yorker), who clearly wants out of this situation may decide to challenge the paternity of the current pregnancy (which somehow I doubt there's one).

[SoCalDem]

30. Not likely.. think about it..

He probably does not have all that bright of a future, and being adopted into the governor's family (and possible the vice president) is a pretty sweet deal.. There are real perks that go along with it.. He may be perfectly willing to roll with it..and he's IN on whatever scam was perpetrated here, so he has a vested interest in keeping the secret..maybe he only needs to be married to her for a specified amount of time, and then could go his separate way (if there's only one baby).. Would many 18 yr old boys WANT to be the sole support/father of a handicapped baby, when someone else has stepped in and claimed full responsibility?

So he marries Bristol this month....she has a miscarriage...

Mccain loses, he's outta there, and the Palins all go back to Alaska...and then he can decide what to do.. a quickie annulment/divorce...

Mccain wins, and he's suddenly a very big deal as the husband of a vice president's daughter.. Just think of all the cool parties, the travel, the opportunities that open up for him..

He's actually in the cat-bird seat in this whole deal.. he wins eaither way..

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

33. The baby might not be Bristol's but Track's. An Alaskan Radio Director called Thom Hartmann

yesterday, and floated that Track might be the father.

Do the math. If Track's girlfriend was 2 months pregnant when Track signed up for the military, the baby would have been due to be born in April

Here is the link to yesterday's post from DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3905500#3905534

[SoCalDem]

37. That thread is locked and I saw no Track reference

but that still would not explain why people said bristol looked pregnant this spring, and why SHE was taken out of school and moved "undercover"..

If the baby was Track's, a DNA test would show that Todd AND the boyfriend were NOT the daddy.. then the whole thing would be really "out there"..

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

41. I might have put up the wrong link. The thread isn't locked.

Here's the link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3905500#3905534

Do you really think that Palin would provide the birth certificate or a DNA test? I don't think so.

As to Bristol being taken out of school. I did a lot of searches on that and have not yet found one that substantiated that she was taken out of school. She was transferred, yes.

Also, who the hell was taking care of Bristol. She started in a Juneau HS (where Palin resides as governor). At some point she's back in Wasilla and then sent to Anchorage. Just as a parental matter, what's with that.

With track too. When he's 16 he's sent to of all places Michigan to go to school and plays junior league hockey. He then signs up for the military? I feel sorry for these kids.

[SoCalDem]

44. These kids have been raising themselves

Sarah uses them for photo ops,but apparently other than that, they are pretty much on their own..:(

The two older girls are probably in charge of little Piper, or maybe Piper is the only one with her Mom ..who knows?

Dad's either hanging out with Mom at her office, or off fishing, snowmobiling or whatever..

It's not the Walton family, that;s for sure..

[adamuu]

75. i know. this family is a zoo. n/t

[SoCalDem]

78. I heard a snippet of her speech, and when she got to the school board part

I laughed outloud.. her son apparently did not graduate, and poor Bristol hasn't been a regular at school either.. I hope Willow & Piper can somehow escape unscathed.. her being on the school board did not translate into good school habits for her own kids, but I betcha she got some "naughty" parts excised from books..

[adamuu]

92. This is painting quite a picture.

She opposes sex-ed, contraception, and reproductive rights with strict laws mandated from the top.
At the ground level, her own teenage daughter gets pregnant.

As a member of the school board she attempts to micro-manage the curriculum to be more in line with her religious beliefs.
At the ground level, her own children never finish school.

From the top down, she tries to fire the local librarian for refusing to ban books.
She is shocked when the community reacts with revulsion and nearly has her recalled as mayor.

She disparages the community organization experience of Barack Obama, and countless others.
Yet all of her top-down approaches to government have blown up in her face.

She doesn't believe in America.

[Contrary1]

34. This whole thing could be resolved quickly...

C-sections leave scars.

[SoCalDem]

36. I never saw any inferrence that there was a c-section

Please post it:)

[Contrary1]

46. You are correct...

I have been reading so many stories about this the last few days. I did read it somewhere, but after doing a bit more checking, I found that her labor was induced.

Thanks for the heads up on this one. So many rumors, so little time. :hi:

[SoCalDem]

48. Like a 5th child would need "inducing"..

I'm sure it's possible, but everyone I have ever known, who has had more than a couple of babies, were more worried about getting to the hospital in TIME , than of having to be induced...especially if her water "leaked a little"/broke/whatever..TWELVE hours before her plane even landed..and before the hour long drive to Podunk Hospital of the Boonies.. and even after "inducement", we're to believe that it still took until 6:30 AM to push out a 6 pounder :rofl:

Moms all over the world have to be laughing their asses off at this Soap Opera-esque delivery :)

[kristopher]

54. Our doctor described 2nd as being "like spitting a watermelon seed".

After delivery, my wife thought he was just a tad off in his estimation of the ease. But it was pretty fast.

[tavalon]

42. What amazes me is that no one has been able to dig up the original birth certificate

It's quite weird.

[SoCalDem]

50. Won't matter.. It will show April 18, and Sarah & Todd as parents

The BC is the easy part..

[shellgame26]

51. That's right

and to me that's the red flag here.

[SoCalDem]

55. The fate of the free world is in the hands of the National Enquirer

Isn;t that a hoot?

Unless they hit paydirt and we get the "Perry Mason Moment", followed by a hasty retreat back to Alaska, Grandpa & Mrs Moose, may just pull this off..

Unless the "faked pregnancy" thing is proven true and exposed, she skates..

It's just that simple..

The handicapped baby son is the CORNERSTONE of her likability, and provides the pathos that fundies eat up like chocolate pudding..

The farce exposed, she becomes what she really is.. a conniving, calculating person who uses her children as props, so she can force her religious views on others.

[Rockholm]

52. IMHO, Bristol holds the baby a little too lovingly.

If the new baby were her sister, I can certainly see her holding her for her mom, but, I hate to say this, but she holds the baby way too reverently. I believe the baby is hers.

[SoCalDem]

56. and now that the "secret" is out, won't we be seeing the proud papa (Todd)

holding his new son:evilgrin:.. That baby is Bristol's.. and he was probably born in March..not April.. IF she's pregnant again, she probably got pregnant in May, and they will induce her to give birth "around" Christmas-time...IMHO

[shellgame26]

58. I thought so too

You can sense a genuine parental connection. She also looks a little pissed that she (and her baby) are having to endure this ordeal on account of her mother's political ambitions.

[shellgame26]

57. very curious

Cathy Baldwin-Johnson has miraculously vanished from the hospital web-page physician's list after being there moments before. This cover up is turning into an avalanche.

[SoCalDem]

59. Curiouser and curiouser

but of course WE and the "blogosphere" are just being "MEAN" to poor little Sarah..

In a way it's all starting to scare me more, since I learned about the secret pre-convention meeting of the CNP folks.. They have cowed Mccain into taking her on.it was NOT his idea.. He;s been told in no uncertain terms..No sarah..no presidency..

Before her, a "fixed" election was unlikley, since turnout might be very low for him....BUT with a revved up religious freakazoid turnout, they can and WILL fudge the numbers where it counts to keep it all close enough..but just enough for Mccain to miraculously pull it off.. and we'll have another veep running the show (not really..the CNP will be pulling the strings)..Grandpa Mccain will be "that guy"..but not in charge of anything, really..

The CNP folks are dangerous, and very powerful..

[Mnemosyne]

77. McCain predicts last minute win, June 2008:

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/06/28/mccain_predicts_lastminute_win.php

It is setting up quite the same as * in 2000 and 2004. Wasn't worried in the least, knew he was going to win.

I feel sick.

Thanks for keeping at this SoCal! Palin dragged her children into all of this. Heinous, imho. There used to be a saying, possibly just regional, "A cat is a better mother." Shame on her and all the pukes involved.

:hi:

[mitchum]

62. You are correct

[catgirl]

63. Check out this photo of a very pregnant Palin (older pregnancy)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6847357

NOW do you think she was really pregnant this past April? I don't think so. While I don't find fault in the claim,
in order to protect Bristol, I do find fault in the wild airplane story. I also find fault in Palin accepting the
V.P. nom. and essentially dictating her daughters life. Bristol will either be torn from her home, ni order to
be with her baby, or she will be torn from her baby. Not much of a choice there.

[KoKo]

68. Huffpost poster says that's one of the photoshopped ones going around...

:shrug: There's a few of them over there that they claim are circulating but not real.

[SoCalDem]

69. I found it on SUNDAY from the AP site..and the caption said

provided by the HEATH family.. I'm pretty sure it was when she was pregnant with Track.. (The one in the red shirt)..
I doubt that AP would post a photoshopped pic..and she -did look very like any woman in late stages of pregnancy..especially a first-timer who forgets that babies are not all that big, so you better watch the weight gain :evilgrin:

[watercolors]

64. Expression on Bristols face holding the baby

To me says all that is needed!!

[Matariki]

67. They reacted with WAY too much panic for there not to be SOMETHING going on.

And clearly they believe it's something that will hurt her. Which is why I say, push it.

[SoCalDem]

114. The ONE day turn-around piqued my interest too

If McCain knew, why wait..why not make it part of her introduction..

If he did not know, then shame on him..and on her for thinking it would not be noticed..

[KoKo]

70. Do we even know if that baby really has Down Syndrome? Just because

the Palin's say so...does that make it real? And, wouldn't there been alot of Alaskan media wanting to talk to the Governor about this...doing features which would help other parents of Down Syndrome babies?

Was there anything in the WaPo or NYT's or Alaska papers you came across. Seems odd the Womens magazines wouldn't have done features on her... That's the other curious thing.

[SoCalDem]

71. I am guessing he does, because why else would they panic like that?

a baby without health issues born out of wedlock,,even to the governor's daughter probably is not all that big of a deal, but we all know how expensive and lifelong medical expenses are for handicapped kids..and at 16, how could she shoulder these issues.. It would also be very difficult for her when it came time to marry.. Not many men are willing to tackle instant parenthood to a handicapped child.. It may be tactless to say it, but it;s true.. It made sense to have Trig be her brother..and not her son.:(

[KoKo]

72. There's so much there....like a "thread that needs unravelling" that it's hard to know

but...I'd like to see a report that the baby really has Down Syndrome... And, since there's no birth record available to us (yet any of our dealings with hospitals, govt. or anywhere else are "open records" on the internets) ...it makes no sense that Govenor Palin didn't have tons of PHOTO OPS by major magazines and the "Down Syndrome Awareness Self Help Grop" going up to Alaska to do feature stories on her.

Actually that Down Syndrome Baby should have been fodder for "Womens' Issues in the "WaPo and NYT" plus "Vanity Fair" and all the other Mag's that would have seen one of the few State Govenors having a Down Syndrome Baby as just an "INCREDIBLE STORY!" With all the mothers who deal with "special needs babies" these days...this story should have been ALL OVER THE WOMENS MAGS...as "Special Interest!"

Why wasn't it? Where are the articles about one of the FEW (3, I think) Female Govenors of States getting Pregnant in their first term in Office and Oprah and "People Mag" don't even bother to make this a big deal? :shrug: There's something there....

[Fumesucker]

82. Damn, those are some interesting points. Thanks n/t

[jazzjunkysue]

74. Health insurance? Would the baby be covered if he were Bristol's?

Or, would you have to sign over legal custody-adoption-in order for the baby to be covered as a dependent of Sarah's? Especially because he'll need continuous support throughout his life.

Plus, it just makes sense to have the parents adopt the baby. How can you saddle a teenager with that dependency at such a young age?

I actually find more fault with Sarah if she makes Bristol keep one or both babies. If Mom is going to prohibit abortions, she'll have to either give it away to strangers or raise it(them) herself.

I still think Bristol was pregnant, this is her child and Bristol's just carrying the pregnancy weight/stretch. I think the "pregnant now" was a cheap plea for sympathy from wingers and teflon from reporters (deflecting it from herself by concocting the lie and using Bristol as cover.)

[KoKo]

76. If Bristol was a Poor White or Poor Black or Hispanic...bet she wouldn't get coverage...

but because she's daughter of Governor of Alaska it's TO THE MAX...!!!!

[shellgame26]

80. The story needs to stay out there

There are waaaay too many discrepancies to ignore.The MSM is still trying to suppress it but this is the coming of age for the blogosphere. remember snipergate? they tried to squash that too.

[SoCalDem]

79. Unless the parents' coverage included maternity care for their children's children

that baby would NOT be covered. BUT if the parents listed on the birth certificate were sarah & Todd, the baby would be covered for life or as long as they have the insurance.. That was my initial take on the scam.. it's FRAUD and the insurance company will be paying a shitload of money for Trig's care.. If the baby is Bristol's and her name is listed as mother, she would be covered, but not him..so the FAMILY would either have to buy insurance for him, have her go on welfare to get medicaid, or they would pay out of pocket..

I challenge everyone here with teenage kids.. Call your insurance provider and ask what is included in your policy if your teenager gets pregnant or gets another teen pregnant.. If coverage is provided for female childen, who could have 4 kids before they aged-out at 18, it could add up..and for parents of sons..well think of the cost if he was a "playah" and impregnated 5 or 6 girls a year from age 14-18..

Sweet Sarah & her Dude, committed insurance fraud.. bet on it..

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

81. SoCalDem, thank you for your work on this story

I, for one, am completely convinced this is Sarah grandson.

The repub brand is badly damaged, and there is no way the pukes wouldn't have used Sarahs pregnancy as a feel good story, starting at the Texas governors convention - with the requiset photo ops. Sarah would have been 8 months pregnant, and there is no way that could have been hidden. But, where are the photo's?

Also, in other blogs, I have heard that this story had been "throughly debunked". but other than a bunch of faked photos and the usual denials from the major players, how has this been thoroughly debunked? Have I missed something??

And I would like to see the Birth Certificate, faked or not.

[Connonym]

88. unless they've legally adopted the child

in which case the birth certificate would have been legally altered to have their names listed as the birth parents. Although if they're going to go through the trouble of this deception I can't see why they'd bother with the legalities of adoption.

The whole situation is just weird regardless of what version is true.

[Bunny]

98. Actually, the child would be immediately eligible for SSI, by virtue of being born with Down

Syndrome. Qualifying for even one dollar of SSI benefits automatically makes one eligible for Medicaid. So there is no need to go on welfare, or buy him an insurance policy, or pay out of pocket. The government would and will pick up the tab for his health care, cradle to grave.

What might not be covered by Medicaid is Trig's delivery and subsequent neonate stay in the hospital. I don't know if Medicaid is retroactive to cover these things, probably not. But as soon as an application was made for SSI, and approved, he'd be eligible and Medicaid would pick up the cost of his health care from that day forward.

[SoCalDem]

102. That's good to know.. Is there an income threshhold?

The Enquirer is probably grilling insurance companies to see if they are interested in the fraud angle. If they are, I think they would be able to subpoena pre-natal care records to establish maternity at least..

[Bunny]

107. Yes, I believe SSI is means-based, and it's possible that the Palin's (Sarah and Todd's)

income is too high to be eligible for any significant monthly allotment of money. But I also think that having Down Syndrome means you automatically are eligible, even if you only get as little as one dollar a month. This in turn makes you eligible for Medicaid, which is not means-based in these circumstances.

I should add that I haven't worked closely with SSI eligibility in some years, so the rules *may* have changed, but I think my statements are still accurate.

[krkaufman]

83. Hmmm... I wonder if another possible motive for shifting the motherhood of Trig...

... might be because of his Down Syndrome. Did the daughter do something that would fall into "risky" behavior relative to the health of her pregnancy (drugs? alcohol? binge drinking?), and when the embryo was identified as having Down Syndrome it was decided that it would be best for the over-40 mother to be presented as the mom, to preclude that line of questioning?

[SoCalDem]

84. Since Down syndrome is a chromosomal thing, I doubt that anything

"caused" it..anything the mother did or didn't do.. It just happens..Our first child had a very rare defect 1 in 650,000 we were told..and the only way they had been able to re-create it in chicken embryos, no less, was to have an egg fertilize at the time it was beginning to disintegrate.. so in our case it was just piss-poor timing..the doctor said that if our son's defect had been in a "major" organ/system, I would have probaby miscarried, but since it was not, there was no indication that there was anything wrong until he was born..(no ultrasounds back then).

If she did drink. it would certainly do the baby no good, but would not "cause" Down syndrome..

[krkaufman]

86. Thank you for informing me.

Bless you and yours.

[TorchTheWitch]

85. Does anyone but me question that the baby really does have DS?

Seriously. All we know about that is because Palin claims it's so. If it's true that the baby is not Sarah's, it would be more convincing if she claimed that the baby had an illness associated with older mothers (it was already being speculated it wasn't Sarah's child before the baby was born). That claim would also be useful for the fundy crowd to applaud her for... "she REALLY walks the walk on pro-life because she still insisted on having the baby knowing it was a special needs child!"

Yeah, I can totally see her lying about the DS too.

[Bennyboy]

87. That was no 5 month pregnant girl on stage tonight

Just a little baby bump, no maternity wear. Tight fitting dress. No way. I saw the earlier photo on the tarmac and thought well maybe, but tonight, no way.

[SoCalDem]

89. My diagnosis? baby-fat not yet lost

Many first-timers do not realize just how hard it is to lose that 40lb you gained...:rofl:..A 5-6 lb baby, the "gooshy" parts, some water, some blood, and guess what..you still have about 25-30 extra pounds..Most women learn the hard way with the first one, and do not gain as much with the later babies..

I'm afraid that there will be an "announcement" soon, that will garner wails of sympathy and buckets of tears for the poor beleaguered St. Sarah, and if Mccain pulls this out, the "sex-on-skates Redneck will remain in the imperial family, but if they lose, once back in Wasilla, there will be a quiet annulment/divorce, and we won't hear about the Palins for a long time..

[Just-plain-Kathy]

90. Now I see it differently. Last night when she was holding the baby with a blanket....

under the baby, Bristol didn't look big to me at all. She looked much bigger to me tonight. Tonight's bump was big, if Bristol's belly were that big the first night, the blanket wouldn't have lied so flat.

My guess is that Trig is Bristol's, and Sarah is trying to cover up her lying. I don't think Bristol is pregnant now...the size of her baby-bump changed to much over night.

Wow, this is like a soap opera, crazy names and all.

[SoCalDem]

91. Those ever-changing protrusions..very odd indeed

Bristol was wearing a rather slim-fitting gray skirt in a pic I saw, and she really did not look pregnant to me..just a bit chubby..(like one would be when the baby-fat is still onboard)

Until the Enquirer gets someone to spill the beans, we may never know..

I hope the Enquirer makes some inquiries of the insurance companies..they do not look kindly on insurance fraud, and those insurance investigators can get records..

[onetwo]

93. We MUST continue with this. If Sarah's an exposed liar and Bristol is really on #2, candidacy OVER.

[SoCalDem]

94. Enquirer scuttlebutt is that a family schism is responsible for the "affair" story

coming out.. Perhaps it's from the soon to be ex-brother in law. He may know the story of the miracle pregnancy, and since bristol was already outed by her Mom on national tv, he may spill the beans on Trig, if our suspicions are true..

That woudl certainly expose her for the lair she is.. even if some people think he's just pissed at her.. Once the dam breaks on local scandal, others come forward too..

[seabeyond]

95. and lets remember MOM OUTED DAUGHTER. i heard a woman on tv say

what dems did to bristol. dems didnt do. they were running scared and outed the daughter.

[dc10]

96. Your photo source for below?

Hi,

Where did you find the photo from the post below? I couldn't see your source anywhere, but this is a pretty damning image, it if was indeed from Feb 2008. Seems like this would be something to send to the National Enquirer. Do you have reason to believe they are already investigating the Trig coverup?

Photo:


Your post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3879229

[SoCalDem]

99. I found that one online (googled it) on the Friday she was announced

before the scrub.. It was supposedly taken in feb '08.. Bristol's hand placement did it for me... and Sarah's trimness too..

Here's a new one I found ..

googled "sara palin dead things"..don't ask:rofl:

the caption said 7 months?..no date though

[dc10]

100. Do you know the site it came from originally?

And have you seen this site that archives old web pages? They may have it there.

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

I'm just thinking that if you can find the source for these, they would be good evidence for bottom-feeders like The Enquirer (though they may already have it, I don't know). That photo (and the one above) ought to go "viral"...

[SoCalDem]

103. It was probably the Alaska state site.. It may even be back up now

It was of the whole family.. I cropped it to show just the girls..
but there will be no dates,. those are gone baby gone :(

[dc10]

104. Internet "wayback" archive

So here's the page I get when I try to look at archived copies of the Alaska website. You might want to poke around in here--can they even scrub an archive?

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://gov.state.ak.us/

[SoCalDem]

106. yup they can.. sometimes they forget, but the Roverians are up there now

:grr:

[LaStrega]

146. Sheesh!

That official Alaska web site is PLASTERED with her! Narcissist much?

Check out, for comparisons sake, the Minnesota site. One itty bitty pic of Pawlenty on the right, the rest actual information about the state.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

97. Ok, there are a lot of photos of Bristol now, and I don't know about you, but she doesn't look 5 mos

pregnant to me. Anyone else???

[SoCalDem]

101. poochy from left over Trig weight is my guess n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

105. That's exactly what her tummy looks like in the pics.

[seemslikeadream]

108. Stay on it SoCalDem, I've been with ya from the start

So Bristol has mono for 5 months and then gets preg right after recovering?

[SoCalDem]

109. Did you see the newest pic I found..? It's one I had never seen before

The caption read "7 months?"

I don;t know where it came from originally though

[seemslikeadream]

110. I hadn't seen it, you know and I KNOW the story they area telling is a lie

We just have to figure out what the truth is. I wonder if the Enquirer is on to something, hope so. Too many people must know something about what went on

[dc10]

121. Please send your photos (both the ones you reproduced in this thread)

to a couple of other blogs that are tracking this. "CajunBoy" is one big one. He and his cohort said they saw lots of pix last weekend that have now disappeared. It's good for these things to "go viral." I think the one of Bristol looking so pregnant (in the red jacket) is particularly of interest. The one of Sarah holding Piper's hand is great, but we have no way of knowing when it was taken...

http://cajunboyinthecity.blogspot.com/

[SoCalDem]

123. just give him this link

or he could register here and read up.. I snagged the pics I have (most of them)..pre-scrub, but if they changed the captions afterwards, it's hard to tell.. most of mine came from ADN, or the State of Alaska site, itself..

[SoCalDem]

113. oops

[DangerDave921]

111. LOL

You have some serious time on your hands. But I respect the dedication.

Aren't there hospital records? State workers who saw Palin pregnant?

[SoCalDem]

112. 5 minutes on excel.. some picture snags before the scrubbing.. not all that time-consuming

:)

[madeline_con]

118. No and no. That's what's weird about it.

[madeline_con]

115. "... it matters because it's about the LYING..."

Thank you for that. And the whole awesome post!

[samuraiguppy]

122. the baby

they had in April is Bristol's. now Bristol is padded up--there is no second baby. bristel will lose her baby before the election because of the mean democrats---sympathetic americans will put them in power.

[SoCalDem]

124. If only we could get some wasilla folks drunk enough to talk

:rofl:

[sattahipdeep]

126. Todd Palin..."Is it just me or do things move quick around here?"

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Conventions/story?id=5733591&page=1


....
Have you had a premature baby? Have you used, or needed, a breast milk bank?

[prayin4rain]

125. I kinda thought that too..

Just because she is pregnant now (if she is) does not mean she didn't just have a baby. My sister and I are only 13 months apart.

[kath]

127. heck, my husband and his sister were 10 months and 9 days apart.

It's certainly not unheard of for a woman to already be pregnant again when she goes in for her 6 weesk post-partum checkup.

[SoCalDem]

130. My last two were 12 months, 10 days apart

"Irish twins" are not that rare..especially with a fertile, unsupervised teen ?

[rainbow4321]

129. At this point... do we even believe the Down's diagnosis???

Too many other neurological diagnosis to pick from. Including fetal alcohol syndrome.

[SoCalDem]

132. An extra chromosome is pretty easy to detect..

Down syndrome is NOT "all that rare" in very young teens.. I think they may have planned to have Bristol's baby "get adopted" ....that's why the mono story was cooked up, but when she delivered early (and probably without ever having an amnio), and the baby was determined to have Down Syndrome, they freaked out.. That little guy was probably born in March, and that's when Mom cooked up the "story".. March in Wasilla is probably a very cold time of year, and it would not be all that hard to have his needs tended to, with little scrutiny..(Dr Gal-pal)..and since he would have been low birth weight, she had about 6 weeks to cook up the story, and just claim him as her own..Babies with problems are not all that adoptable....Bristol could have easily gotten pregnant again by early May, or she could also still be carrying around the "baby-fat", and Mom needed to have her "about 5 months pregnant" to cover for the earlier "whopper"..

[mitchum]

139. That scenario is exactly what I think happened...

it rationally accounts for all of the screwy holes in Palin's improbable story

[notadmblnd]

131. Notice the dates and school.

[SoCalDem]

133. Curiouser and curiouser, indeed..

The schools need to just tell us when she LEFT school.. They HAVE to know..

When exactly did that "about the middle of the year" "about 5 to 8 months with mono" start?

I smell FISH !!

[notadmblnd]

134. she looks pregnant to me in that photo

[LeftyMom]

136. It's a year and a half old.

She'd have to be firing them out at a pace that would embarrass Michelle Duggar to be pregnant in that photo too.

[notadmblnd]

137. Yes, two months before the baby was born.

[SoCalDem]

138. not if the date is '07.. this date-swapping stuff on all the pics

is befuddling, to say the least..

Doesn;t the AP date thier pics as they are taken? and write the captions contemporaneously?

If the pic was posted as '08, why would they go back and change the date..

changing the caption under a picture is not uncommin when it comes to a place ot a person's name, but most photographers have a date stamp on their pics..

[notadmblnd]

141. Something funny is going on. I see what you're saying

AP changed the date from Feb 2008 to Feb 2007. If she was that pregnant in Feb 2008, that would make her about 13 months pregnant right now.

[rainbow4321]

140. There sure seems to be a run on "Palin family pictures misdated"

http://www.palininvestigation.com/

Scroll down til you see their family picture. It was initially captioned in the Anchorage Daily News as being taken around the holidays of *2007*. Oops. They take it down recently and then they put it back up with a NEW date of being in 2006. Take a good look at Bristol and her belly.
I'll have to look for it but there is another website that has a pic of Piper in 2006 and if you compare how she looks in both "2006" pictures...well, to use the website words "Piper is aging backwards".

[SoCalDem]

142. #21 ..January 24, 2007..

Bristol?? or some other girl?

[rainbow4321]

143. "Halfway through the school year...

http://www.insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyID=2067

Halfway through the school year, about the time Bristol discovered she was pregnant, she transferred to another high school.


Ummm...how long of a "pregnancy" are we talking here cuz half way thru is HALF WAY THRU and that is NOT April or May.

[SoCalDem]

145. She made the honor roll for 1st semester

as near as I could tell 1st semester ends before the winter break for Xmas.. means DEC..

If she had started to show Aug-Dec=4 months, she would have been 7.5 (or so) in March (when I think Trig was really born..probably weighed 5lb & change)..Mom "announces" and 5-6 wks later, "has him".. all tidied up..but back then she had NO idea she would be picked to be veep..and he HAD to know that there would be some serious scrutiny of all those pictures...so plan "B" had to go into motion.,.and fast..

[canetoad]

144. Kind of redundant

but a first hand account of how Palin looked as she flew back from Texas.

Alaska Airlines has no such rule and leaves the decision to the woman and her doctor, said spokeswoman Caroline Boren. Palin was very pleasant to the gate agents and flight attendants, as always, Boren said.

"The stage of her pregnancy was not apparent by observation. She did not show any signs of distress," Boren said.

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html

[LaStrega]

147. Giving this a bump ...

As to whether or not Trig has Down syndrome, my thoughts:

From Wikipedia:

Often Down syndrome is associated with some impairment of cognitive ability and physical growth as well as facial appearance.

If Trig does not have Down syndrome, it would be apparent. I have yet to see a close up baby photo, from straight on, of him.

Now one might theorize that it'd be entirely ridiculous to falsely claim an infant has Down syndrome, considering said infant eventually will grow up and undoubtedly there will be photos of him, thereby exposing the lie.

But remember, Palin is an Assemblies of God member ... and they believe whole-heartedly that end times are near, and that Alaska will be a place of refuge for those from the lower 48. Therefor, no reason to worry about the lie concerning Trig's handicap.

Mayhap Palin believes God wants her in the veep position for the end times, and she'll do anything ... *anything* ... to get there.

Just some thoughts.

*bump*

[rucky]

148. Is it too early to start therapy as a fetus?