I was a teenage mom at 15. And, my problem is the HYPOCRISY...

[debbierlus]

The year was 1987. I became pregnant and gave birth to my son Shawn when I was 15 years old. (He is now 21, and he is a wonderful young man, and GASP, a productive member of society!). When I gave birth to my son, my family was provided with AFDC and food stamps. I finished high school, and the state paid for my associates degree in nursing. I graduated with an RN, and I started out with a high paying job, right out of school.

Years later (2000), I went back to school to complete my bachelors degree in nursing. For my senior internship, I decided to work with pregnant teens. I worked with two pregnant teenage girls. Part of the assignment was to help the girls access state and community programs for teen moms, and help them obtain the resources they needed (financial, health, education, etc). In the process of seeking resources for the girls, I discovered that nearly all the programs that helped me; they were either gone or stripped bare. The vilification of teen mothers as 'welfare moms' allowed the majority of social safety nets to be pulled out from underneath this vulnerable population. The majority of these changes occurred under Republican governance (although Clinton's welfare reform was heavy handed and short sighted). The politics of the Republican party shows PURE CONTEMPT for struggling young women and their infants and children. It has always amazed me that the worship the fetus crowd shows such disdain for the child.

On a more personal level, I will NEVER EVER EVER forget the people who helped me when I was 15 and pregnant. And, they were not the 'pro-life' Republicans - they were the pro-choice liberals. The woman at the family planning clinic, who held my hand while I cried and tried to help me in my terror, she was a liberal. The teachers at the teen parent program who taught me so I could finish high-school, they were liberals. The home care nurses were liberal. The WIC advocates who helped me with breastfeeding and nutrition education, they were liberals. The social worker, and welfare case worker...LIBERALS. From the few 'pro-life' Republicans I remember from that time(a neighbor, my OB-GYN, a couple teachers), they treated me with condescending attitude and judgement.

The fact that Palin's daughter is pregnant is none of our business. However, there is a VERY legitimate discussion to be had about the policies of the Republican party, and the severe repercussions they have had on teen mothers throughout this nation. It is long past time they are called out on their hypocrisy. Sarah Palin is the worst type of hypocrite; a woman who slashed program funding for teen moms yet stated she would force her daughter to give birth from a pregnancy that resulted from rape or incest. Palin is the worst kind of politician, and a traitor to every American woman. Her appointment to the VP slot is the ultimate slap in the face to our young women and daughters.

This isn't about her daughter. It is about the Republican party's scorn of women, and their willingness to use one of the worst examples of our gender to further their own political power.

[WillParkinson]

1. Bravo

Well said. And thank you. :-)

[Cleita]

2. Bravo!

I love your post.

What is happening now is that the religious fanatics are trying to get women's wombs regulated again. And yes, women really are nothing more than accessories to them.

[debbierlus]

6. Thanks.

It truly amazes me that the people who have the least respect for life (NRA, war-mongering, anti-environmental protection wackos) are allowed to label themselves as 'pro-life'

Surreal.

[Shallah Kali]

30. This is exactly why I have a hissy when anyone calls them Pro-Life when they are merely Pro-Pregnanc

If they were prolife at the *minimum* they would ensure there was affordable or even free healthcare for all pregnant women and children up to age 18. They would ensure everyone had a living wage so that people could afford healthy food, decent housing, and healthcare. In fact all the prolife people who think women should stay home and raise babies should be marching on Washington to raise the wage to the point that the minimum wage to the point husbands could support their wives and children!

[Hissyspit]

39. Did someone say 'hiss...'

Oh, never mind. Of course, it's the hypocrisy. It's about wingnut hypocritical non-reality-based policy.

[verges]

42. I think we should re-label them

Anti-choice.

[rocness]

49. pro-life their pro-fetus

they are not pro-life their pro-fetus, after the baby born they careless what happen to the kid.

[Wednesdays]

54. A hearty welcome to DU!

:hi:

Although I should warn you: the grammar police may stop you and write a ticket. :P

[Chisox08]

57. They love the fetus but hate the child

[pathansen]

85. Did Palin actually say that if her daughter were raped, she would not allow her to have abortion?

This woman has no compassion for her own daughters.
She must have known when she accepted Vice Presidential offer, she would subject her own daughter to worldwide exposure and embarrassment for getting pregnant out of wedlock.
She puts her own political ambitions before her own daughters feelings.

[George II]

88. Yes she did, the exact quote and circumstance was posted on DU sometime on Sunday.

[Mad_Dem_X]

98. Dear God! The woman's not only a nutjob...

but a terrible excuse for a parent!

[AnneD]

164. And that let's mean talk about my pet peeve...

for most of my my daughter's life I was a single mom. One thing I have learned about these RW nuts is that they see the world in black and white where as I see the world as shades of grey, To be absolute sets one up for failure. It is like this abstinence only teaching. As a single Mom, I worked my ass off teaching my daughter that 1) abstinence is great when you are young and it is what I believe 2) but should you every find yourself in a situation where you might not want to abstain.....always protect yourself. I keep the condoms in X place and we never count them so you have no excuse. By seeing the gray that is human nature, I let my daughter know that we are human and while we aspire to better-sometimes we don't make it.

How many times have we heard single Moms trashed, blamed, and held personally responsible when their kids screwed up and got pregnant or impregnated. Now, held before us is a child that had TWO parents and still wound up pregnant and that is LAUDED? I busted my ass, my kid is struggling to get funding to make a career and life for herself and has managed to be off drugs, un pregnant, organized numerous charity and political events (nets for African families, voter registration drives). I know I am asking the choir here....but WHO has the family values. I think Barack Obama's Mom and I would have been BFF if we had met. You can tell a tree by the fruit it bears. Am I trashing the kid...no. I see shades of grey remember and I know kids are kids. But let's not make this family out to be saints just because the ovaries work. And if you see the world in black and white-let's apply those rules equally.

This is why the legalistic views of the old testament are doomed to failure...because we ARE human, fragile, complicated, prone to screw ups human. That was and is the true beauty of the new testament. It is an acceptance of our shortcomings and forgiveness of our character and a challenge to overcome our nature. I don't know what Jesus would have done, but I do know that he commanded us to see to the needs of the widowed and orphaned. I think single moms fall into that category. I mean-His mom WAS an unwed mother at one point. I think God even set Joseph straight on that one...or so I've been told.

[kestrel91316]

114. "Serena Joy" Paliban supports the right of rapists to forcibly

impregnate the women of their choice. There's really no other way to frame this.

[BrklynLiberal]

139. They are anything but "pro-life" . They use semantics to twist peoples minds.

If anything they are ONLY about controlling women.
They could not care less about that baby once it leaves its mother's womb.
If they did, they would provide medical care, nutrition and education for those children and their mothers. They would want them to live in a peaceful, healthy world. Their policies reflect the opposite...in virtually every case.

[Heather MC]

96. "religious fanatics" are the worse, they forget "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

I grew up deep in the bible belt, those people will make you hate GOD
Fortunately when I got older, I realized it was the Messengers who were wrong, not the message.

I know alot of people on DU don't believe in God, and I respect that, I use to feel that way as well.
But once I understood God's Message is about Love. And once you realize we are all connected and we are called to love, you will not mis-treat someone who needs help, you will help them.

[NC_Nurse]

3. Excellent post! Thanks!

:thumbsup:

[Not Me]

4. You beat the odds: a testimonial to your fortitude

And I hope that Bristol Palin and Levi Johnston are as successful as you were.
And I agree, the hypocrisy of the right wing is appalling.

[TomInTib]

5. I wish I could recommend this 100 times.

You nailed it, debbierlus.

[avaistheone1]

65. Me too.

:thumbsup:

[SmokingJacket]

7. Kick and rec.

Great story, thank you!!

[rurallib]

8. Something I think is sad but has been spoken of little here is the

criminalization that Republicans have pushed through in nearly every state on teenage sex. In nearly every state but Alaska the young man in question would be hauled in and put on trial for sex crimes.
Thank you for pointing out that at least at one time we had a society that was more interested in aiding the family rather than punishing them.
It's like we've gone back to the puritanism of the 1600s.

[lynnertic]

89. is that right? the young man 'hauled in for sex crimes' for sex at 17?

I thought age of consent applied to children with adults, not children with children. At any rate I don't have any, it's all too confusing for me.

[malaise]

9. Superb post

K & R

[frogmarch]

10. Inspiring post, and right on, politically K&R

[alittlelark]

11. Thank You for you insight...

The R's just seem incapable of dealing w/ the 'real world'.

I'm very happy you had good people around you at that time.O8)

[tavalon]

12. I'm proud to have you as a fellow nurse

You have your head screwed on very nicely. I really think you would be great working with teen moms, since you have an in.

I work with a bunch of Repub nurses (strange, since I'm just a stone's throw away from Seattle). We had a woman come in for a therapeutic abortion (first ever, from the way these prissy nurses acted) and everyone refused to take her. I was floating from the NICU (I used to work L/D) so I asked to take care of her. I wanted her to have someone who genuinely cared about her and her incredibly difficult decision. I was mortified at these women, my supposed colleagues.

[debbierlus]

34. Thank goodness you were there for that poor woman

They refused to provide care to a patient? How cruel (and completely unethical and unprofessiona)....

Thankfully, there are nurses like you - :pals:

[tavalon]

45. I was happy to be there for her

I even stayed over in the morning, as her delivery was coming early in the morning and I wanted to be there for her.

I was shocked at my colleagues. I do support that a nurse shouldn't be forced to take care of a patient having a procedure the nurse can't ethically support, but I wish people would think through those things better.

[wolfgangmo]

157. I run/own a clinic

If any of these 'nurses' tried this shit with us I would have to physically restrain our medical director from performing highly elective surgery on the spot.

Of course we would fire them summarily and report them to the state board of licensing with the strongest possible recommendation for their license to be pulled or restricted.

Completely unprofessional behavior.

And I used to live in the pacific north west. You are only a stones throw away from some of the last hotbeds for radical militias. Scary stuff.

[GOPBasher]

13. Every Republican in the country should see this post.

Thank you for sharing this. What a powerful argument you just made.

Like you, I don't think Palin's daughter's pregnancy is any of our business; but the points you made in this post are very important.

[Synnical]

14. Touche, debbierlus

Thank you for writing and allowing the world to read your words.

My respect has no bounds.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale

[kitkat65]

15. Life's cheap on the other side of the cervix for these folks, isn't it?

[debbierlus]

29. Omg. On the other side of the cervix!

I never heard that one before.

:)

[BrklynLiberal]

140. Great phraseology. We need to use that more often!!!!

[pnorman]

16. I'm truly glad that I 'clicked' on this thread!

K & R!

pnorman

[Generic Other]

17. You are right...I was a teen mom too

Liberals helped me too.

If the rightwingers had their way, we would have starved.

[KoKo]

22. Thank You!....K&R!

[debbierlus]

26. Teen moms need help and love - for themselves and for their babies

From one former teen mom to another...:pals:

[Breeze54]

40. Not just teen moms, Debbie... all single parents ! Older women have babies

out of wedlock (gawd, I hate that term!) too!

Single parents come from all walks of life. ;)

[yellerpup]

18. I was moved to tears by your story.

I am proud of your accomplishments as if you were my own daughter. You tell a story of how frightening situations can come out very well when we reach out and help each other. I am grateful that you found someone to care for you when you needed care the most. I'm sure that you had to put up with a lot of crap along the way. Education is the key to making a better life. Free public education never existed anywhere in the world until it existed in this country. Our candidate, Senator Obama understands this truth to the core of his soul and we should do everything we can to help him succeed just as those compassionate liberals helped you succeed when you were so at risk and not much more than a child yourself. :hug: Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

[barbtries]

19. thank you for sharing this great story

it really illustrates how important it is to get democrats back in the white house. they surely won't do as much to bring equality to america as i wish they would, but they're equally sure to be a damn sight better than repukes.

edited to make sense.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. I nominate this for post of the month. Brava!

Brava, Brava, Brava!

[Ghost Dog]

21. Seconded.

And rec'd. Thank you for your superbly-expressed clarity.

[mirrera]

23. You said that well! It is true, so many programs gone.

[Dems Are Sexy]

24. Kudos!!

I love your post it and you have made an excellent point!
I'm 21 ,like your son,and I am and also a very active member of society.

I too have young friends who have become pregnant while in college and without the support and assistance they've received many of them would not have continued on their quest to obtain their degrees to be capable of providing a suitable, stable life for their children.

I also feel that this was very hypocritical of Palin due to the obvious fact that her DAUGHTER falls directly into the category of mothers she so carelessly disabled.Whom many of which are not as fortunate (as Palin's daughter) to have parents who can support them and their newborn child. I just hope this reaches the media and people actually LISTEN for a change!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

28. Excellent first post, sweetie

Glad to see you've joined and are posting. :hug:

[asdjrocky]

25. Wonderful job bringing it home. K&R

[FloridaJudy]

27. Thank you. K&R. eom

[Left coast liberal]

31. Powerful post. Thank you. I agree 100%.

[torbird]

32. Thank you

Finally, someone who can play identity politics with this and STILL gets it that this is about the Republicans' failed politics of "family values" and their questionable judgment. This isn't about Democrats smearing a teenage girl, or about misogyny, or about us taking the low road: this is a legitimate political issue because Gov. Palin and her party made it a legitimate political issue and now they have to lie in the bed they made. Thank you!

[glitch]

33. I wish I could give this 1000 recs. You really should send this to your local paper.

It is heartwarming and well-written. :applause:

[MsLeopard]

35. Wow!

Thank you for sharing your experience.

K&R :kick:

[Breeze54]

36. ((((( debbierlus))))) ~ I feel your outrage! ~ Great post!!!

:hug:

Psst: I gave birth in 1988 to a son named Sean too and he's almost 20!

We went through a similar nightmare and your post is RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!

:woohoo:

:kick: & Recommended!! :D

[Fumesucker]

37. It has always amazed me that the worship the fetus crowd shows such disdain for the child.

If you would like to better understand the mindset you refer to in the sentence above I would recommend you read "The Authoritarians" an online book by Dr Bob Altemeyer.

The book is free to read online or print out and distribute as you wish, Dr Bob (as he calls himself) is available to answer questions in an online discussion group. The book is remarkably accessible and easy to read for an academic work and I think you will find it opens your eyes to many things going on in our country that otherwise seem inexplicable.

I enjoyed your post and welcome you to DU.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

OK, what’s this book about? It’s about what’s happened to the American government lately. It’s about the disastrous decisions that government has made. It’s about the corruption that rotted the Congress. It’s about how traditional conservatism has nearly been destroyed by authoritarianism. It’s about how the “Religious Right” teamed up with amoral authoritarian leaders to push its un-democratic agenda onto the country. It’s about the United States standing at the crossroads as the next federal election approaches.

“Well,” you might be thinking, “I don’t believe any of this is true.” Or maybe you’re thinking, “What else is new? I’ve believed this for years.” Why should a conservative, moderate, or liberal bother with this book? Why should any Republican, Independent, or Democrat click the “Introduction” link on this page?

Because if you do, you’ll begin an easy-ride journey through some relevant scientific studies I have done on authoritarian personalities--one that will take you a heck of a lot less time than the decades it took me. Those studies have a direct bearing on all the topics mentioned above. So if you think the first paragraph is a lot of hokum, or full of half-truths, I invite you to look at the research.

For example, take the following statement: “Once our government leaders and the authorities condemn the dangerous elements in our society, it will be the duty of every patriotic citizen to help stomp out the rot that is poisoning our country from within.” Sounds like something Hitler would say, right? Want to guess how many politicians, how many lawmakers in the United States agreed with it? Want to guess what they had in common?

Or how about a government program that persecutes political parties, or minorities, or journalists the authorities do not like, by putting them in jail, even torturing and killing them. Nobody would approve of that, right? Guess again.

Don’t think for a minute this doesn’t concern you personally. Let me ask you, as we’re passing the time here, how many ordinary people do you think an evil authority would have to order to kill you before he found someone who would, unjustly, out of sheer obedience, just because the authority said to? What sort of person is most likely to follow such an order? What kind of official is most likely to give that order, if it suited his purposes? Look at what experiments tell us, as I did.

If, on the other hand, you’re way ahead of me, and believe the extreme right-wing elements in America are poised to take it over, permanently, I think you can still get a lot from this book. The studies explain so much about these people. Yes, the research shows they are very aggressive, but why are they so hostile? Yes, experiments show they are almost totally uninfluenced by reasoning and evidence, but why are they so dogmatic? Yes, studies show the Religious Right has more than its fair share of hypocrites, from top to bottom; but why are they two-faced, and how come one face never notices the other? Yes, their leaders can give the flimsiest of excuses and even outright lies about things they’ve done wrong, but why do the rank-and-file believe them? What happens when authoritarian followers find the authoritarian leaders they crave and start marching together?

I think you’ll find this book “explains a lot.” Many scattered impressions about the enemies of freedom and equality become solidified by science and coherently connected here.

[Swagman]

38. Ronald Reagan called unwed mothers "promiscuous" and the

Evangelicals agreed. Now it's a "celebration of life" when it's a conservative.

Your right-it's the sheer utter hyprocisy but that's what the Conservatives are !

Sarah Palin-pro "life",anti-moose

[chknltl]

43. I called Ronald Reagan a mouthbreather and the

knuckle draggers who adored him hypocritical idiots. Many many years later his adoring fans are still hypocritical idiots. The 6 most frightening words in the English language are: "Trust me, I am a republican". (and they have the gall to call US the looney left :grr:)

[avaistheone1]

71. It is sheer hypocrisy. We don't want these folks and Sarah Palin making public policy on these

issues. Our teens will have to pay a terrible price if we let that happen.

[beac]

41. Thank you for sharing your story.

Another example of why I am proud to be a Liberal!

[chknltl]

44. KnR, Thank you for this debbierlus, bookmarked and shared. eom

[trthnd4jstc]

46. I am a guy, and I have tears in my eyes thinking about the Reality that the Pukes have created. n/t

[RainDog]

47. Hugs to you. Wish I could k&r 10x

Beautifully written, powerful and full of truth. thank you.

[mnhtnbb]

48. Thank you for posting your story and acknowledgment of those who helped you.

[LynneSin]

50. Thank you - THIS IS MY ISSUE

and you summed it up best because you've been there done that.

It's not about Bristol being pregnant but about her mother wanted to make choices for this country and for our daughters that could have severely negative impact.

[HughMoran]

51. The Misogynist party

You got that right!

[BrklynLiberal]

141. The repuke party should be legally changed to the mysogynist party.

Sadly, even the women repukes fall into that category.

[ColbertWatcher]

52. Bravo! This needs to be a stickie at the top of the home page!

Thank you for posting this.

Thank you for sharing your story.

[The Wielding Truth]

62. Reality has to be shown about this surreal Republican Party.

You have done it. Thank you.

[Carolina]

53. EXCELLENT!

You really should submit this as an op-ed to a major newspaper!

[SeattleGirl]

55. Absolutely true!

One of my theories is that the "pro-lifers" are people who see babies as punishment for a woman who had sex (and they include victims of rape and incest).

[raccoon]

102. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. That is the main reason these

idiots are against abortion. THey can't stand the idea of these women having CONSENSUAL sex.

[mike_c]

56. words fail me-- I am so proud to recommend your story....

Thank you. What an inspiring post!

[bertman]

58. Beautiful. Powerful and Perfectly Stated. Thank you for posting that.

[crickets]

59. Great post!

I agree with the suggestion of using it as a letter to the editor of your local paper. So many people just don't 'get it' - perhaps your words will help them to understand. :thumbsup:

[Douglas Carpenter]

60. Recommended thanks for sharing

[democracy1st]

61. K & R

[ColbertWatcher]

63. FYI: DUer riverdeep just posted the proof of the hypocrisy that you're talking about ...

"Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms"

[BrklynLiberal]

142. Thanks for the link. That is a great post.

[Cybergata]

64. You have my admiration.

And you are one of the reasons I keep reading DU. Thanks for your excellent words.

Nancy

[Triana]

66. DAMN right! Excellent post. K & R - especially THIS part:

"The fact that Palin's daughter is pregnant is none of our business. However, there is a VERY legitimate discussion to be had about the policies of the Republican party, and the severe repercussions they have had on teen mothers throughout this nation. It is long past time they are called out on their hypocrisy. Sarah Palin is the worst type of hypocrite; a woman who slashed program funding for teen moms yet stated she would force her daughter to give birth from a pregnancy that resulted from rape or incest. Palin is the worst kind of politician, and a traitor to every American woman. Her appointment to the VP slot is the ultimate slap in the face to our young women and daughters.

This isn't about her daughter. It is about the Republican party's scorn of women, and their willingness to use one of the worst examples of our gender to further their own political power."

Hammer, meet nail....

[Missie56]

67. Thanks for sharing your hardships, and congrats. on overcoming them

This is an especially poignant post, since we read that Gov Palin has (line item!!) cut funding for pregnant teens who need a place to live--WITH their babies--while they attend job-training and/or college courses. We need to celebrate these young women, and we need to give them the help they need.

So, let me get this straight--Gov. Palin supports abstinence-only education for teens.

She is against CHOICE, even in cases of rape/incest.

She is of the belief that contraceptives should not be used.

And she does not support financial assistance in the form of a safe place to live and begin to raise their babies for pregnant teenage girls.

SO, she is against all forms of reducing teenage pregnancy--(knowledge of prevention, abortion--
(yes, if a teen suffers a rape, or is subjected to incest,) and availability of contraceptives.

But, when a teen finds herself pregnant, and decides to keep and raise her child, she is unable to find support, because Gov. Palin has severly decreased the funding for these young women.

The hypocrisy is so bad that it makes me ashamed that Gov. Palin is a woman.

I wish you continued success, debbierlus.

[Bluebug]

68. Thanks so much for sharing your story

Compassion is something that truly comes from within one's soul, not from misguided religious or political dogma. That's something the Republicans will never get.

[Third Doctor]

70. Compassionate conservative? Yeah right...

The cons only have compassion for those in their ranks. If Bristol's mother was a democrat she would be a wanton slut from a broken home.

[eridani]

69. Please send this to all your local newspapers n/t

[UrbScotty]

72. .

:hug:

[Iris]

73. a heart-felt thanks to you.

I've been trying to point this out all day. Hunky-dory for Bristol - she's 17, pregnant and has the support of her family and, apparently, the entire GOP. Cut to the average 17 yr. old who gets the abstinence only education and does NOT have that kind of support. What happens to her and her baby?

[NM Independent]

74. Thank you for sharing your story.

It really nails the topic down, and exposes the BS for what it is.

[toadzilla]

75. thank you for sharing your story.

[ClayZ]

76. Bravo! K and R

[Sunnyshine]

77. What a great story. I'm grateful that accounts like yours validate these unsighted truths.

They are proud of their bigotry and hypocrisy. They'll turn it into another fake poster issue that hides the rotten neo-con agenda.

[Hubert Flottz]

78. You make some great points.

And you are exactly right. All they do is talk the talk...when it comes to the walking part they want to walk on the neighbor instead of loving them like their Bible teaches. They might fool a few people, but they can't fool us all, by a long shot.

They want to drown the American dream in Grover's bathtub and we CAN NOT let it happen.

[Solly Mack]

79. Thank you

[Dem2theMax]

80. Your words need to be in every newspaper in America. Period. nt.

nt.

[countryjake]

81. Wonderful post! K&R!

Your post is a clarion for all of us who fight the attack on women (every woman, not just young ones or pregnant ones or mothers), that the conservative right continues to press us with! As someone who also dealt with teen pregnancies, long ago, your story is one I'm sure so many can relate to and I thank you for the uplift!

Inspiring! This is a struggle we must not lose!

[Hekate]

82. Your powerful testimonial deserves to see print. I hope you send it as a LTTE.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

:hug:

Hekate

[ksimons]

83. Wow - terrific story and beautifully put. Thanks for posting that. nt

[panzerfaust]

84. Not pregnant was I ...

... but was on food-stamps for over a year.

When I could afford them that is. Twice could not and had to go to the Gov surplus food store instead. Now that was eye-opening, and reminded me that the USDA food-stamp program was FIRST a mechanism to support the agricultural industry, and only secondarily there to help the poor.

Even so, without such help then, would not be where I am now - and society has gotten back much more than was invested in me.

Likely that is true of many of us.

[liberal N proud]

86. Thank you for this great post

[Rockholm]

87. For me, it is ONLY about the hypocrisy.

[BlueJazz]

90. What a wonderful post and you're a wonderful Woman.

[Vinca]

91. Very well said. nt

[lazyriver]

92. This post rocks...

You are so right that we should be discussing the cuts in funding. Bravo for a great post but even more for the success you earned despite the challenges of becoming a mom at 15.

Based on the dates you provided, we're the same age. There were a half dozen girls in my class who got pregnant before the end of our senior year and decided to have the baby (well, six that I knew of...there were probably more than twice that number and who knows how many that made another choice).

None of the six ever returned to school. Five seemed to vanish. They all went to "live with their aunt" or something similar. Our town was pretty backward back then. The sixth ended up having two kids before she graduated (on time) and last I heard, was living a pretty "normal" married life now with three kids. I always wondered whatever happened to the other girls. I'd like to think they turned out like you.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

93. agreed and this is perfectly acceptable way for us to attack palins policy

its quite easy to lay off the girl while still pointing out that republicans have villified teen moms for years now. especially POOR teen mothers.

[Bettie]

94. Well stated and perfectly correct!

I think this is what a lot of us have been trying to get at but not finding the right words for!

I'm so glad you had the resources available to help you and your son when you needed them and its sad that the same resources are not there for others.

Thanks!

Bettie

[indepat]

95. My problems are the hypocrisy, disingenoussness, mendacity, duplicity, sanctimony, and most of all,

reichousness. :P

[Mad_Dem_X]

97. Amen and Amen!

Thank you for sharing your story with us. My problem, too, is not the whole teen-pregnancy thing but the hypocracy of the Republican party and those who call themselves conservatives and Christians.

[Stuart G]

99. Most significant and important post of this election cycle...thank you debbierlus

From here, we can go ahead to argue against this Palin mistake, to show that the Republican Party doesn't really give a shit about teenage moms. Over and over again, we have to hit the fact that Palin reduced spending for programs on helping pregnant teens. This one above is the solution as to what to say to these idiots .
..The last sentence is what we need to repeat about these selfish bastards..... "This isn't about her daughter. It is about the Republican party's scorn of women and their willingness to use one of the worst examples of our gender to further their own political power."

If they are not going to remove her nomination, then let them drown with it. Please add this...she doesn't care about pregnant teens, she consistently reduced funding to help them...

[peacetalksforall]

100. This essay-story should be recorded in this country's history - in books - or even in the

Smithsonian or wherever they collect Americana.

It is personal, it is political. And personsal, political is what we're about and why we share here.

Personal and political is all about surviving with dignity. That is why we're here.

Thank you.

[Myrina]

101. Proudly K&R !! And Proud of you, Debbie!!

I was a single mom, but 23 when I had my daughter. Life was unimaginably difficult at that age, so I can only guess what you struggled with at 15.

I salute all you've accomplished and second the spot-on commentary you've provided.

:applause: :patriot:

[FirstLight]

133. Mee three

I was 21, and abandoned at 8 1/2 mos pregnant by my 'husband' (the marriage didn't even last a year)

... had to go back to college and lived with roommates, afdc and food stamps. I came from a middle class family and was mortified to have to be on those programs, but they kept us alive. My 16 yr old is really awesome now, and wishes he could vote so he could stand up for OBAMA!

:grouphug: to all us young mothers who overcame the odds!!!

[raccoon]

103. Great post. Another hypocritical thing about the Republicans, they

sugar-coat Palin's daughter's pregnancy, and if it had been Chelsea Clinton, she would have at least been given a scarlet letter A, or worse.

[Phentex]

104. Thank you for sharing your story...

These are the REAL issues and I can't stand people pretending otherwise.

[femrap]

105. Great Post...thank you.

You alluded to the heavy hand of Bill Clinton regarding his push for Welfare Reform. When I step away and take a look at the Big Picture, I really don't see much that the dem leadership does for women. Remember how Johnny Bob Taliban Roberts and I-Lie-too (Alito) were placed on the Supreme Court with no fight from our dewds.

I hear their talk...but I don't see the walk. The dems could do much more for the majority of Americans...and that's women and girls.

Again, thank you for sharing your story. The hatred of women and girls is a cultural phenomena that started back in 1980 with Reagan....it's a mighty fierce Backlash to the rights women gained in the '60's and '70's.

[mntleo2]

106. Low Income Activist Here & U R 100% Correct!

...I just want you to know as someone on the ground working as an activist in my state, the contempt you speak of is just rampant ~ even among liberals though not as bad. I have been speaking since Welfare DEFormed was enacted about this. All that was predicted by PROGRESSIVES WHO GAVE A DAMN before its enactment, has come to be true. I had a journal about it the devastation of Welfare DEFormed last March: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/mntleo2/239.

* Though more whites than women of color are/were welfare recipients, the communities where women of color outnumber white women on welfare is where the most racial discrimination exists.

When Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation encountered some "uppity black welfare recipients" in DC, he was simply appalled at how they "lived off the system" and were trying to better themselves. So he was moved to run back to the Heritage Foundation and write the Welfare Reform Act. God forbid that some WOMEN were using the system to better themselves, like his white male friends do every day! What Rector preferred to overlook was, these women had come from Virginia towns where generations of discrimination for people of color was institutionalized. They had no chance at a decent job for their families, their choice was working for some rich family in "The Big House" for pennies. These women left their lifelong homes and came to DC to get an education, using welfare to support their families as they did so.

Which moves me to the next point:

* Before Welfare DEFormed was enacted, over 70% of women on welfare used the support for their families to get an education or training. That is no longer allowed under the new law, the *only* thing allowed is to get a job any job with little concern whether or not it is with a livable wage that supports a family. Women have to fight tooth and nail just to get a GED, which helps little for thier working lives now.

I have other points in that article, but we need to care about these women and children who struggle bravely every day just to make enough to pay the rent. If you have no heart about the misery and permanent poverty being caused by these draconian policies , than you need to care about the rising taxes you pay simply because without the care and attention of their mothers or anyone, many of these these kids are growing up very angry and without any hope, only to get into trouble. Nobody is home for these teens after about the age of 11. If you think a 13 year old boy is going to stay home and do their homework until Mom gets home at 10:00 PM from her McJob that does not even pay the rent, and that their children cannot find some trouble to get into, you are wrong. They find plenty ~ including creating more teen pregnancy themselves.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[yardwork]

107. Thank you very much for this post!

And congratulations on being an excellent mother! I hope I do as well.

[4_TN_TITANS]

108. Powerful....

That needs to be read in front of a camera by Joe Biden at a debate.

edit: p.s. this was well worth my 1000th post

[treestar]

109. I agree, and also their hypocrisy should it have been the other way

round. Had Chelsea been pregnant while Bill was in the White House, we know exactly how the repukes would handle it. We know how they'd handle it had it been a daughter of Obama or Biden. They can be judged on their own standards, the ones they would apply to others. We're getting tripped up on how it doesn't matter when it comes to our standards. But it is legit to point out that by the standards by which they would judge others this candidate fails.

[BonnieJW]

110. You should star in an ad for Barack.

Just stating your story in your own words is very powerful. Don't force a woman/girl to have a baby and then abandon that same woman/girl after the baby is born. What is to become of them?

[horseshoecrab]

111. Debbierlus!

Thanks so much for this wonderful post!

Yes indeed, it is liberals who care about people and their needs. Those conservatives... well, not so much.


horseshoecrab

[RedLetterRev]

112. Thank you for speaking truth

your love shines so brightly.

I have some understanding. My parents divorced when I was four. My mom raised my brother and me on her own. In the 60's in the south, it didn't matter how a woman got to be a single mom. The scorn was handed out equally. But she held her head up and shoulders back like you did and I see the same sort of strength in you that I saw first-hand in her. She gave me what you gave your son and I will say this in front of G'd and the world: we're both very, very lucky men to have such love and guidance behind us. Because of strong and level-headed women like you and my mom, we can go out in the world and be strong and level-headed men.

There will never be thanks enough for you and all the moms like you who loved so much to rise above the scorn and hypocrisy. You, my mom, and millions of other women are quietly leading by example.

⁴Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

[kestrel91316]

113. "Pro-lifers" are anything BUT. They want to use forced pregnancy as a means

of controlling submissive women and punishing women who do not submit to their fascist theocracy.

Anyone who believes they give a goddam rat's ass about the fetus or the child or the woman has got some serious learning to do.

"Serena Joy" Pali(ba)n MUST be kept out of the VP and White House at all costs. Our lives and futures depend on it.

[mntleo2]

121. Over 70% of women on welfare is about domestic violence

...they have been isolated from any family they had.

The following story is true...

I knew a woman who was a devout Christian, had been married 17 years and she apparently lived well off. Little did anyone know her husband beat her and their kids every day. She had 5 children and he was so abusive he forced her to give birth to all of them at home alone. Because, "good Christian" that he was, he did not want anyone seeing her during labor with evidence of all the rapes, or the bruises and broken limbs he left on her body. He finally almost killed her. After limping out from her month long hospital stay, husband in jail for attempted murder, she made her way to the welfare office. They looked at their watches and said, "Soooo, when are you going to go to work?"

17 YEARS of enduring this abuse and isolation as an "obedient good Christian wife" and they expected her to hop out there and find a job ~ and they could have cared less that she had 5 kids to feed and could not find anything with a livable wage! We had to go in there and fight like demons just so she could go to i year of school ~ she wanted to help other women who had endured what she had as a domestic violence counselor.

The sad part about this is, this woman is not an exceptional case ...

Then to add insult to injury this government spends over a BILLION goddamn dollars trying to marry women like her off to another "good Christian man" such as the previous husband was. See, it is percieved as "all her fault" she was almost beaten to death ... She should have fled ~ to where? She had been isolated from her parents, siblings, anyone she knew for 17 years, she had been kept in absolute terror and her self esteem was literally beaten out of her ... Of course there is no dating services included with this "plan" that would help these women find their supposed Prince Charming (and few women would want it). This governement would not DREAM of spending that money on an education, housing, and other assistance women like the above mentioned woman need.

I am not making this up to tell you that for Jennifer Dunn, a former US Representative in a VERY rich area here (Bill Gates lives not a mile from her office) her unreality was beyond the pale. Thank GOD she is replaced with someone probably much like her (I hope you detect the snark here). When this woman I spoke about above asked Representative Dunn, "What do you expect me to do about my children's father ~ go back to him after he gets out of prison and risk the chance of one of us getting killed???" Representative Dunn's good Repiglican answer, and I am *not* making this up) was, "Oh these funds would also pay for counseling..."


AARRGGHH!!!!!

I go to church. But a long time ago, I was beyond disgusted with the rampant greed, myopia and hypocrisy I saw in these mega-churches all twittered about sex but encouraging the rampant greed they preached, and their wingnut theology. They ignored their own teachings whose prophet spoke little about sex and a great deal about greed. I had to find a church with intelligent and REAL Christians that believed in helping the poor and spent their lives doing so. I believe in a caring dignified REAL assistance, not the punitive patronized "help" that we see now. I know there are good men out there, but I want to make sure that these women have a chance, not forced into permanent poverty or married off to some other man who is expected to be a wallet with legs. God forbid that women actually find Community with family and friends, and then learn ways to take care of themselves without being coerced into selling their souls again, when they would be fine doing it alone, if they just had some help.

My disgusted 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Throckmorton]

115. But, But, they are Pregnant, and not married

They Must Be Punished.

Unless of course their mother is the VEEP nominee for the thuglican party.

[AmyCamus]

116. My mother was just 18 when I was born.

I have that in common with our candidate!
Thanks for sharing your story!

[LSK]

117. a hearty K&R for you

[One_Life_To_Give]

118. Too be fair

"Welfare Reform" as I recall was intended not to punish but to discourage. Which may seem like a fine point. But the question is how do you discourage people from ending up in a state where they require government help without in the process failing to give help.

[mntleo2]

124. It was to punish ~ Robert Rechtor Heritage Foundation ...

...he wrote this bill after being "appalled" at how some women used the system to get an education. Women who had moved to DC from West Virginai who had lived generations in institutionalized racism and sexism whose only chance at work was as I said above "in the Big House" of the rich for pennies a day.

These women Rector hated so much were "uppity black women" who left West Virginia to go to school in DC. They used welfare to support themselves and their children to do that. God forbid that they did the same thing Rector's rich white friends (mostly white men) taking advantage of the System sitting around the pool collecting their tax-free dividend checks and contributing absolutely nothing to this country ~ except imposing their cruel, myopic views on the poor.



And BTW nobody asks, where were the fathers in all this? Well many of them were poor and/or men of color who had little opportunity either.

Cat In Seattle

[One_Life_To_Give]

134. Right Wing intent Vs. actual Bill

Clinton said unlike previous Republican bills that he vetoed, the bipartisan package incorporates most of his requirements for true welfare reform, including time limits on assistance, child care and health care to help people as they go to work and child nutrition programs. The previous bills were "soft on work and tough on children," he said.

After defeating several measures objectionable to the White House, the Senate passed the bill 74-24.

And from the following link the final version had 50% democratic support in both the house and the senate. Now maybe 50% of the Dems in congress wanted to stick it to those "uppity black women", but I doubt it.
On edit add link
www.ssa.gov/history/tally1996.html

[mntleo2]

161. Dems Were In minority and ...

...it was an era of hatred toward the poor, blaming the poor for "waste" which what was not their fault. Helped by Gingrich and Rechtor, the low income woman was demonized and hated. This ignored the already massive corporate welfare already in place that was taking literally THOUSANDS of times more of our federal budget. Welfare at the time of this ill gotten bill was less than 4% of the budget while corporations at the time were paying less than 8% of the tax base and the military budget alone, much less all the corporate welfare, DURING PEACE TIME was taking over 50% of our budget.

Believe me, I hold the Dems as responsible for this condemning entire families to life long poverty, they were AS RESPONSIBLE for applauding and voting for it as the Repigs were for creating it. As a matter of fact, this has been my argument against Hillary Clinton because she thinks condemning millions of families (mostly headed by women) to permanent poverty is wonderful as did her husband (who promised as he signed the bill he would soften it with policy tweaks and he did not). I did hear Bill tell Randi Rhodes once that he felt it was a mistake, so I will give him this credit ~ but no forgiveness. Because nobody has done a damn thing about it, least of all him or his wife.

As a matter of fact I know of women who have been standing under Hillary's window since she took office and she has ignored them. They even got so frustrated they threw waffles at her window because she had "waffed" so much on the issues of low income families and their desperate cries.

Yet we all talk so much about "women's rights" and "family values" and we think that we are empowering women, when in fact Welfare DEFormed has relegated poor women and their families to just a little above lifelong slavery. Rector and Gingrich are racist, sexist asses and the Dems that voted for them are the same. They can talk all they want about "caring" but they do little and care less.

This is why I am an activist and this is why I speak out even if people do not like to hear the truth. To demonize poor women who have no power nor any way to defend themselves, to blame them for a bunch of rich men's stooopid decisions about how they spend our tax money, is not only cowardly and cruel, it is elitism and sexism at its height. To add to this the racist perception that poor black women should not have opportunity, but to pull themselves "up by the boot straps" when they do not even have boots, is racist and beyond the pale as far as the institutionalized racism we already have in this country that is statistically proven and that EVERYBODY acknowledges.

In short, and I include any turncoat well fed woman in my opinion, they were ALL nothing but a bunch of clueless, racist, sexist, white, elitist, self serving asses! Period!

Cat In Seattle

[gorfle]

119. A question.

I loved your line here: "It has always amazed me that the worship the fetus crowd shows such disdain for the child." It really drives home the disconnect that conservatives have with regards to compassion. They are full of compassion for the unborn but none for anyone else.

But I have a question:

How do you show compassion for teenage/unwed mothers and their children without rewarding that behavior and thus encouraging more of the same?

I mean if we send the message that it's OK to be a teenage/unwed mother and oh by the way the State will take care of your expenses when you do it, isn't that going to encourage more teenage/unwed mothers?

[mntleo2]

125. Uhhh, these women become quickly aware ...

...that what happened to them was not good. Recently I had to pull all my grand nieces Disney movies. They were all about little girls Disney encourages to be little princesses who had slumber parties and played games to "find the perfect prince" (Disney's words, not mine). Our whole society is about finding that prince who does not nor should not exsit, These are KIDS who grow up too soon becoming moms at an age where they should be going to the prom and planning for college. it is a rude awakening.

While thanks to no university caring enough to spend money on it, there are few statistics to show this, it is known support for training, housing, and other needs actually helps women become independent. Few of them want to depend on anybody for their living ~ even their husbands when they eventually marry.

I have yet to hear of ANY woman who got rich having babies ... Anyone who has been a parent quickly finds that it is not all fun and games. It is hard WORK, And the dreams of princes, castles and carriages give way to diapers, walking the floor without any sleep, and trying to figure out how to pay the rent so you both do not end up at the bus stop for your home. Other than being mentally ill, few women want to continue having babies to "make money". It is a ridiculous thought.

My 2 cents.

Cat In Seattle

[gorfle]

129. Yes, but

...that what happened to them was not good. Recently I had to pull all my grand nieces Disney movies. They were all about little girls Disney encourages to be little princesses who had slumber parties and played games to "find the perfect prince" (Disney's words, not mine). Our whole society is about finding that prince who does not nor should not exsit, These are KIDS who grow up too soon becoming moms at an age where they should be going to the prom and planning for college. it is a rude awakening.

While thanks to no university caring enough to spend money on it, there are few statistics to show this, it is known support for training, housing, and other needs actually helps women become independent. Few of them want to depend on anybody for their living ~ even their husbands when they eventually marry.

I have yet to hear of ANY woman who got rich having babies ... Anyone who has been a parent quickly finds that it is not all fun and games. It is hard WORK, And the dreams of princes, castles and carriages give way to diapers, walking the floor without any sleep, and trying to figure out how to pay the rent so you both do not end up at the bus stop for your home. Other than being mentally ill, few women want to continue having babies to "make money". It is a ridiculous thought.

My 2 cents.

Cat In Seattle

I'm a parent myself, so I certainly appreciate the hard work of being a parent.

I also agree that no one gets rich off of welfare, but I wasn't asserting that they did.

I also agree that after the fact, teenage/unwed mothers soon find out the magnitude of their mistake. One of the reasons these mothers find out that what they did was "not good" as you say is because of the hardships they then bear as a result of what they did. If we put programs in place that reduce or eliminate these hardships won't it reduce the learning about the consequences of the mistake? And as word gets out that the consequences aren't so hard anymore thanks to compassionate programs to support such mothers and their children won't it have the effect of encouraging such behavior?

Now your main assertion seems to be that people naturally don't want to receive welfare and so this would be the disincentive to being a teenage/unwed mother. Do you think the stigma of receiving welfare will be enough disincentive?

[mntleo2]

131. No I do not ...

...the stigma of welfare is not a disincentive for a desperate young mother who does not know where else to turn. She is desperate. She may not have family who can or will help her. She may have (before birth) delusions that she will be loved by her baby instead of the other way around. She may think this will allow her and her "prince" to marry. She may not believe in abortions because of her teachings. The father is most often a teen as well, and there is no other way.

To punish an innocent child with poverty, homelessness, and starvation "while Mom learns" is not a good plan.

I think the best "incentives" are many things but some of the main ones are these:

*Teach good sex education at home AND in the schools ~ meaning teaching contraceptives and where to go for help.

*Teens who are sexually active are often in denial about their sexuality. They think masturbation is "weird" when in fact it is one of the most natural things an adult can do for themselves, it an act of self love and should be taught as that. However we, as a society rarely talk about it and when we do (as Dr Elders did under Clinton) we are isolated and ridiculed instead of teaching our kids it is natural, a way to love one's self and harmless. Bottom line: Masturbation DOES NOT MAKE BABIES.

*When teens are in a situation with another of the opposite sex and sex happens, they think it is "just this time" next time they will have more "will power". Instead of just facing they are humans and taking precautions such as using birth control, they think it won't happen again ~ and it will.

*Poverty needs to be addressed:

A. With Mom working that McJob that does not even pay the rent, many of these kids are left after the age of around 11, alone and without supervision or guidance from other adults. Inner cities and rural areas with poverty should address this and get government assistance to address it.

B. Better working wages and rasing of the minimum wage to a livable wage. If you think a kid growing up doing without a parent they desperately need while their mother works at some job that does not even buy them enough cereal to eat in the morning, much less those shoes everybody is wearing at school that they get teased for not having, you are sadly mistaken. These kids are growing up angry and feeling hopeless.

C. Education for the parent is KEY. They really need to at the very least get training and a high school degree. Right now a mother is lucky if her DSHS office allows her to get a GED. Forget further training unless Mom also works, manages a family with little community support, does this without childcare, and goes to school and passes ...

D. Under DSHS rules, they expect Mom to go to work when her baby is just 3 months old. This baby is not even allowed to bond with their mother. Meanwhile their mothers are off working in some sweat shop who along with our society, make her feel like she is "not doing anything" unless she gives all her energy and time to the McJob instead of her child. It is little wonder neglect is so rampant in poor communities when our own society teaches parenting is "doing nothing" and not worthy or our support but working a McJob is "doing something"!


E. Which brings me to the last point about parenting ...when this country tells a mother and the world that a McJob is "more important" than a child, this is sick imo. Sooo, making some rich man richer is "better" than taking care of your own child?

What is this doing for your country and your community??? Tell these "wisdoms" about incentives to the teen who is angry, feeling abandoned and needing love when they are in the arms of a young man who they think they love and who loves them. They will not hear you, they only hear that, for the moment, they are a princess and they have found their prince.

And further down the road, also tell that to the elder who needs their social security check but many of the next generation are in prison or drug addicted cannot pay ... We really need to do some rethinking and I suspect it is too scary to even contemplate any of the things I mentioned.

Hope this helps

Cat In Seattle

[gorfle]

146. Replies.

You seem to be discussing a lot of points other than addressing the question I asked:

I also agree that after the fact, teenage/unwed mothers soon find out the magnitude of their mistake. One of the reasons these mothers find out that what they did was "not good" as you say is because of the hardships they then bear as a result of what they did. If we put programs in place that reduce or eliminate these hardships won't it reduce the learning about the consequences of the mistake? And as word gets out that the consequences aren't so hard anymore thanks to compassionate programs to support such mothers and their children won't it have the effect of encouraging such behavior?

Now your main assertion seems to be that people naturally don't want to receive welfare and so this would be the disincentive to being a teenage/unwed mother. Do you think the stigma of receiving welfare will be enough disincentive?

You have answered my question of do you think the stigma of receiving welfare will be enough disincentive to not be a teenage/unwed parent. Originally you asserted that "While thanks to no university caring enough to spend money on it, there are few statistics to show this, it is known support for training, housing, and other needs actually helps women become independent. Few of them want to depend on anybody for their living ~ even their husbands when they eventually marry.", which seems to indicate that you felt that not wanting to rely on help from others was an incentive not to be an unwed/teenage parent.

But now you say that it is not.

So if that is not a disincentive not to be a teenage/unwed parent, what is?

To punish an innocent child with poverty, homelessness, and starvation "while Mom learns" is not a good plan.

I agree. So what do we do to make sure that providing income, homes, and food, does not become an incentive to be a teenage/unwed parent? If we reward such actions by reducing or eliminating the negative consequences, won't it reduce the disincentive against those actions?

*Teach good sex education at home AND in the schools ~ meaning teaching contraceptives and where to go for help.

I agree we should teach good sex education at home and in the schools, including teaching about contraceptives, etc. But this has nothing to do with the incentive or disincentive to become a teenage/unwed parent.

*Teens who are sexually active are often in denial about their sexuality. They think masturbation is "weird" when in fact it is one of the most natural things an adult can do for themselves, it an act of self love and should be taught as that. However we, as a society rarely talk about it and when we do (as Dr Elders did under Clinton) we are isolated and ridiculed instead of teaching our kids it is natural, a way to love one's self and harmless. Bottom line: Masturbation DOES NOT MAKE BABIES.

I agree with your opinion on mastrubation, but again, this has nothing to do with the incentive or disincentive to become a teenage/unwed parent.

B. Better working wages and rasing of the minimum wage to a livable wage. If you think a kid growing up doing without a parent they desperately need while their mother works at some job that does not even buy them enough cereal to eat in the morning, much less those shoes everybody is wearing at school that they get teased for not having, you are sadly mistaken. These kids are growing up angry and feeling hopeless.

While I don't have a problem using tax dollars to make sure that everyone has enough to eat, I'm not so sure about using them to solve fashion problems. I didn't get to wear name-brand clothes when I was growing up and I got picked on about it but I wouldn't expect the taxpayers to do anything about it, unless we are talking about school uniforms, which I think are a great idea and would have no problem supporting with tax dollars. However I'm given to understand that even when uniforms are required there is constant one-upmanship over who has the designer version of the uniform and who has the Walmart version.

In any case I'm not sure what this has to do with the incentive or disincentive of becoming an unwed/teenage parent, other than to say that the financial consequences of becoming an unwed/teenage parent most certainly are a disincentive to becoming one.

C. Education for the parent is KEY. They really need to at the very least get training and a high school degree. Right now a mother is lucky if her DSHS office allows her to get a GED. Forget further training unless Mom also works, manages a family with little community support, does this without childcare, and goes to school and passes ...

I could go for that. There should be provision for every grade-school-age parent to finish high school, complete with provisions for child care, food, and shelter, until they graduate.

D. Under DSHS rules, they expect Mom to go to work when her baby is just 3 months old. This baby is not even allowed to bond with their mother. Meanwhile their mothers are off working in some sweat shop who along with our society, make her feel like she is "not doing anything" unless she gives all her energy and time to the McJob instead of her child. It is little wonder neglect is so rampant in poor communities when our own society teaches parenting is "doing nothing" and not worthy or our support but working a McJob is "doing something"!

How much time would you recommend taxpayer support for before the Mom is expected to go back to work? What benefits do teenage/unwed mothers currently get for those 3 months? Are these benefits available to everyone or only people below a certain income level? If we extend the amount of time of benefits, to, say, 12 months, would everyone be able to take advantage of the services?

E. Which brings me to the last point about parenting ...when this country tells a mother and the world that a McJob is "more important" than a child, this is sick imo. Sooo, making some rich man richer is "better" than taking care of your own child?

I agree with you 100%, which is why my wife and I decided that she would be a stay-at-home mom and raise our kids, and we worked hard to make sure that our financial situation could support that decision before we had children.

No job is more important than a child. But I am not very sympathetic to subsidizing other people's lives so that they don't have to work and can instead raise their children. If you don't want to have to choose between working and parenting simultaneously you'll have to make the choice to do one or the other by itself. I can see the need to provide some level of assistance to unwed/teenage parents, but we need to be careful that we do not remove the disincentive to become an unwed/teenage parent. Otherwise everyone will want to quit work and have babies on the taxpayer dollar. And the better the benefits become for engaging in that behavior, the less disincentive there is for that behavior.

[mntleo2]

159. I hear you and ...

...I was not suggesting that tax payers should pay for fashion statements, that was not my point. My point was that, kids who have little or nothing mixed with little guidance or adult supervision while Mom is out there and not able to answer ANY of their needs, is a bad mix and not good for the teen. To that teen, all the efforts Mom puts in for her job that won't even give the kid enough to eat much less something nice to wear causes a great deal of resentment and insecurity. Wages for women are $.70 on the dollar in comparison to men and this is not enough to support a child ~ even WITH a college degree and training it is $.70 on the dollar.But single dads also have many of the same issues as single mothers. They cannot be in two places at once. Period. I am saying that kids growing up who cannot even have the necessities while watching Mom go off for the entire day, causes problems and a great deal of resentment. While we adults can see that not having nice shoes is nothing compared to having the rent paid, kids do not see this ~ and teens get into trouble when they have no supervision and feel this sense of abandonment.

Before Welfare DEFormed was enacted, welfare used less than 4% of the budget. Today is is less than 2% ~ by far less than ANY other budget concerns such as wars, corporate welfare, and other wasteful things people seem to think is just fine their tax dollars pay while complaining about supporting the next generation's upbringing, which would cost far less and yield far more for our society, if we did it right. I am saying that if we can afford wars that decimate entire countries, cause permanent injuries for our own people, and costs billions of dollars a week, if we can subsidize big corporations who can pay their CEOs 350 times more than their workers, if we can use our tax dollars for those things more than welfare even comes near, and if we can allow the rich not to have to contribute near the taxes the poor pay (they pay on the average less than 5% of their incomes while the poor pay on average of 17-19% of their incomes in taxes), then WHY are these things more important than supporting the next generation's upbringing? If we want these kids to function so that they pay our social security and run our country when we are too old to do it, we need to support them and the people caring for them.

I address sex education as a disincentive to welfare because see, sex is an important reason teens are having babies. They are KIDS with adult bodies. If they feel ashamed of their own sexuality and deny the realities of their own sexuality, then well, more accidents WILL happen.

I do not think you meant what you said and I am sure it is not true that it appears that you seem to believe that raising children is not worthy work. This stood out to me and it kind of bothered me becasue I am sure it was not meant the way it sounds:

No job is more important than a child. But I am not very sympathetic to subsidizing other people's lives so that they don't have to work and can instead raise their children.

This cannot possibly be what you think about your wife and any woman's work, that all she contributes is not work and in reality not as important as your work? You seem too decent to think she is at home "doing nothing" and that you do it all. She puts in 24/7 work, she gets no holidays, she is on the job all the time as a mother and a wife. I suspect you would consider it would be cruel to tell your exhausted wife when you come home from your mere 8 hours while putting your feet up, "Hey Honey, since you did nothing all day, you only washed all our clothes, took care of our house, ran all the errands, did the shopping, took care of our children, fixed our dinner, you still have another 3 hours of empty nothing to do before you go to bed, and so you should run and get me a beer while I relax, ok?" I don't think so. She works as hard if not harder than you do. You must be aware that you would be dead in the water if she was not caring for you so you could go to work without having to worry about all that would not get done if not for her! Well a single parent does your job AND her job, see?

My point is this: Raising children IS work. It is worthy work. It is worth our support, just as your wife deserves your support and her community's support for all the good she does, as do all family caregivers. It is just as important than any paid job because it is one of the things that ensures our future. Your wife is doing something far more important than filling up some ledger with more money for the Boss, she is contributing to her family, her community, and to you all at once. Does a paid job do that is as much and is it as important? Sure it is important, but is is not more important, and that work is just as legitimate as any paid job, that is my point. As a matter of fact some countries actually DO give this incentive and they have lower birth rates and higher standards of living. They pay for family leave so parents can BE parents and they value this work enough to support it. Venezuela even pays stay at home parents a wage because they value this work.

As an aside, I hope you give your wife a kiss soon and let her know how much you value what she does. I hope you tell her how lost you would be without her and that you appreciate all she does for you and your children and the neighbors, the extended family, the school, and others she gives to. Because that work IS "work". Don't let her say she "is not working" because she IS working ~ she just does not get paid the nice salary you do, she shares it for the work she does. Tell her she "works inside the home", and let her know she is just as important a contributor to your life as you are to hers because it is the truth.

Just something radical to consider.


Cat in Seattle

[gorfle]

162. More replies

Before Welfare DEFormed was enacted, welfare used less than 4% of the budget. Today is is less than 2% ~ by far less than ANY other budget concerns such as wars, corporate welfare, and other wasteful things people seem to think is just fine their tax dollars pay while complaining about supporting the next generation's upbringing, which would cost far less and yield far more for our society, if we did it right. I am saying that if we can afford wars that decimate entire countries, cause permanent injuries for our own people, and costs billions of dollars a week, if we can subsidize big corporations who can pay their CEOs 350 times more than their workers, if we can use our tax dollars for those things more than welfare even comes near, and if we can allow the rich not to have to contribute near the taxes the poor pay (they pay on the average less than 5% of their incomes while the poor pay on average of 17-19% of their incomes in taxes), then WHY are these things more important than supporting the next generation's upbringing? If we want these kids to function so that they pay our social security and run our country when we are too old to do it, we need to support them and the people caring for them.

I agree with you that if we have trillions of dollars to spend on corporate welfare and Iraqis then we should have plenty of money to spend on just about anything benefiting Americans.

But again I keep coming back to the incentive you are creating by advocating supporting children and the people caring for them. Who is entitled to this benefit? I'd love to quit work tomorrow and stay home raising my kids with my wife. Are you willing to pay for me to do that? What's to stop everyone from quitting work and raising their kids? Who's going to pay for that?

If we create a benefit that says anyone who gets pregnant gets taken care of by society for X period of time naturally people are going to want to take advantage of this benefit. I think one of the major deterrents to teenage/unwed pregnancy is the fact that it is well known what a financial hardship it is. Having a child as a teenager or unwed parent basically destroys your educational opportunities and career advancement. I suspect if you take away these deterrents and you're going to have a lot more teenage/unwed pregnancies.

I don't know how you balance supporting people in need and encouraging more people to have children who shouldn't be having them.

I do not think you meant what you said and I am sure it is not true that it appears that you seem to believe that raising children is not worthy work. This stood out to me and it kind of bothered me becasue I am sure it was not meant the way it sounds:

You are correct I did not mean what I said. I'm not saying stay-at-home parents don't work, what I'm saying is stay-at home parents don't support themselves financially.

So what I should have said is I'm not very sympathetic to subsidizing other people's lives so that they don't have to support themselves and can instead raise their children. I'd love someone to pay for me to stay home and raise my kids with my wife but I would never expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.

Well a single parent does your job AND her job, see?

Yes, I see. So you suggesting that society should relieve her of her responsibility to support her family, as I do, so that she can focus on her job? Won't this be a major incentive to have kids?

My point is this: Raising children IS work. It is worthy work. It is worth our support, just as your wife deserves your support and her community's support for all the good she does, as do all family caregivers.

I don't dispute that raising children is work, or worthy work. I just don't see how you can set up a program that supports parents without it becoming an incentive for everyone to take advantage of the benefit.

Venezuela even pays stay at home parents a wage because they value this work.

Don't you think this encourages people to have children? Especially people who are in no position to have them otherwise?

Some questions for you:

What do you consider disincentives for having a child today? In other words, what stops teenagers and unwed parents from having babies today?

What benefits would you consider appropriate for teenage/unwed parents? What benefits would you consider appropriate for all parents?

How would your proposed benefits impact what is stopping teenagers and unwed parents from having babies today?

[johnlal]

135. Teenagers have sex. Some teenagers have children.

The benefits of doing so are apparent. The problems with doing so should also be apparent. Teenagers should know the consequences of having sex, the burden of parenthood at such a young age, and the loss of options and opportunities. They should also be taught about birth control and prevention of disease. Hopefully, this will help teenagers to make informed decisions. But many will become pregnant or impregnate another regardless. That's nature, and it's not all bad. Taking support away from teenage mothers will not discourage teens from having sex, or from bringing children into the world. It will only leave the parent(s) in a perilous situation, and it will be very dangerous to the child.

[gorfle]

144. I don't understand this.

The benefits of doing so are apparent. The problems with doing so should also be apparent. Teenagers should know the consequences of having sex, the burden of parenthood at such a young age, and the loss of options and opportunities.

But if the State intervenes and reduces or eliminates some of the problems with becoming a teenage/unwed parent, then hasn't the state likewise reduced or eliminated the consequences of having sex and the burden of parenthood at such a young age?

And if it becomes apparent to teenagers that the consequences and burden aren't very dire anymore thanks to intervention by the State, won't there be less of an incentive to not be a teenage/unwed parent?

Taking support away from teenage mothers will not discourage teens from having sex, or from bringing children into the world. It will only leave the parent(s) in a perilous situation, and it will be very dangerous to the child.

But you already said that teenagers should know the consequences of having sex, the burden of parenthood, and the loss of options and opportunities. Presumably by them knowing these things they have an incentive not to become a teenage/unwed parent. But if these things that they should no are no longer true due to intervention by the State, won't the incentive go away?

[johnlal]

160. I was speaking about natural consequences

Economic consequences of pregnancy are not natural. They are man-made. We can decide what our economic policy is, and we can implement it. A society has a choice as to how to react to the natural phenomenon of childbirth. They can either support the families who are unable (under the current economic conditions)to support themselves, or they can be jerks.

To me, it doesn't make sense to arbitrarily decide to endanger the health, welfare and even the lives of children and young mothers, and then claim that the mothers are responsible for bringing the consequences onto themselves and their children.

[yellowdogintexas]

120. a wonderful statement. You could have been my own daughter based on

age..I would be enormously proud of you if you were.

I am grateful for your words.

Do set up a DU journal and put this in it so it will stay out there for a good long time handy and visible.

O8) :hug: :yourock:

[klook]

122. Is there a DU Hall of Fame?

If so, this post belongs in it. Absolutely great.

"It has always amazed me that the worship the fetus crowd shows such disdain for the child."

Worship the Fetus
Disdain the Child
The Republican Way

Thanks so much for sharing your story, and congratulations to you and your son for his great start in life. :yourock:

One of the things I most anxiously anticipate from President Obama's administration will be the restoration of the programs that helped you when you needed it most. There are so many more like you who today are being left to make it on their own without a helping hand.

[B Calm]

123. Fantastic post!

[deaniac21]

126. How did you assertain all of these people's political beliefs?

Most keep this sort of thing to themselves.

[fascisthunter]

127. thank you for Speaking Up....

[Evoman]

128. I'm seriously in love with you right now.

Just don't tell my girlfriend!

Awesome post.

[kath]

130. debbierlus, you REALLY should have this published somewhere else.

Send it to the NYT, or the WP, or The Nation, The Progressive, American Prospect,

Submit it to some of the prominent blogs. At the very least, your local paper.
Spread it around. It really should get broader coverage, because it is SUCH a powerful and well-written piece. Thanks so much for posting it.

[butterfly77]

132. You hit the nail right on the head sister!

and this is what has really,really been getting on my nerves watching these hypocrites who have slash every program that helps single moms to get on their feet and who have treated them like the scourge of the earth. I know a couple of women who were single moms during the Reagan years and I watch and listen as they tried to pretend as though they were helping them when in reality they don't give a damn...

[Raksha]

136. You are SO right, Debbie!

What you did in 1987 could not be duplicated now, because the support network is no longer there. I heard the same thing from a young lady who had a baby at age 16 (she's now 32). So that would have been in 1992, before Welfare Deform. She not only finished high school, but graduated college and also got a master's degree after the baby was born. But she said that with the cutbacks in the food stamp program and the increases in tuition, she would never be able to do the same thing today.

[MoeHayNow]

137. Very nicely summed up! n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

138. A heartbreaking and heartwarming post ..both at the same time.

You are absolutely right. It is the unmitigated hypocrisy that is so unfathomable.

I applaud your courage and your tenacity.
Your words should be on the front page of DU at least until after the election...

You sound like an incredible woman and an incredible Mom.
I salute you.

:hi: :thumbsup: :yourock:

[Pete2069]

143. McCain's campaign has attacked any democrat that moved....

You are right about the family members should be off the
table.   But , When McCain and his personal start calling
democrat's daughter and family member names and use deceitful
attacks, are democrats suppose to just bend over and let the
republicans keep having their way. 
***** 
McCain statement about Chelsea Clinton!!!!!!
"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is
Janet Reno."
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/02/19/mccain-why-is-chelsea-clinton-so-ugly/
*****
Vanity fair republican news organization (all news are
republican)  must have paid a bundle to search out Obama's
half brother to dig up dirt and propaganda for McCain to
use...

 "I live like a recluse," George Hussein Onyango
Obama says in an article published in the latest edition of
the Italian-language Vanity Fair. "No one knows I
exist."
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1119352,CST-NWS-brother21.article
 
******

Michelle Obama becomes GOP target ---- Is she not a woman , as
well as Palin  or am I missing something...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/12/politics/politico/main4177755.shtml?source=related_story


*********
New McCain Ad Attacks Obama Kids; Cute, Not Ready to Lead, Ad
Claims 
(again am I missing something , Obama's kids are even under 15
and are attacked by McCain's ad)
http://sbutki.newsvine.com/_news/2008/08/26/1787675-new-mccain-ad-attacks-obama-kids-cute-not-ready-to-lead-ad-claims-

*********
Kerry try to be nice in the 2004 campaign and the republicans
buried him with , deceit , lies about his medals , lies about
his statement , they attacked his wife for having wealth, and
look at the toll it took on his elections.
It make the election close enough by the republicans voting
policies of flipping votes, deleting votes and rejecting some
democratic voters from voting and so  they stole another
election , and we are fighting for our very existence today..
I believe that there should be a debate on the ISSUES which
effect our jobs , health benefits , social security ,
manufacturing plants , constitution , bill of rights , war in
the Middle east , bringing our soldiers home , global warming
, clean energy , etc , etc.
But when you are fighting in the trenches , you have to use
what is needed to defeat the enemy and believe me we have meet
the enemy.

But the republicans again are making this campaign about BS
and personal attacks and their phony Flag waving and putting
one of their hands on their bible , and with the other they
are  starving & killing people while destroying our
country and the earth.

While we are fighting each other , Bush and his
military-industrial complex has taken over our nation and
destroying any chance we would have of ever returning our
country into the nation it once was.

The elitist , corporations , foreign countries are taken over
this country ,, while we bitch about who struck John...

[ceile]

145. A BIG K&R!

Great post!!!

[Window]

147. K/R.

:kick:

[madmax]

148. Great Post - K & R

[HockeyMom]

149. Absolutely

As I have said, many times, these people are not ProLife, they are ProBIRTH. Once the child is born, it's goodbye and goodriddance.

I knew a girl in college who was a teenage mother. The STATE was paying for her to go to school to get an education so she could support herself and her son. While she was at school, she worked part time in an office. The state was also paying for daycare for her son while she was away during the day. The last I heard she was offered a scholarship to a 4 year unversity and was talking about someday going on to law school.

There was another program where, again the state, was paying for Moms on welfare to learn a trade: electrican, mechanic, plumbers, etc. Local TV had a story of one such Mom. This was just about the time where the Bush Administration was pushing marriage as the solution for welfare moms. One woman they interviewed said she would cut off her right arm NOT to marry the father of her son. He was a drop out and a drug addict. To make a long story short, this woman completed her training as a plumber, was making $45/hour, married to a fellow plumber who had adopted her son, and was in the process of buying their own home. The woman said this program to learn a trade had completely changed both her and her son's life.

THIS is what this country needs. Shotgun teenage marriages are not the solution. EDUCATION and training IS.

To the OP, my hats off to you.

[savistocate]

154. Vision of the A/c/K gov in interview with McCon/Mrs & cronies

Beehive buzzzzzed:

"I can get the youth vote, young women!!~~she excited breathless!~~I can talk the cool talk...I can do Idaho Wasilla c o o l.

She appears to think so. Overdoing an attempt at cool (wants to compete with Obama cool) but sounds-- hippy dippy--or wanna be. The personality of girly girly/dippity doo. She could have advanced degree she'd still present that silly immature persona.

Funny picture as they
decided--yessss thiss is our answer ("A Face in the Crowd" perfect)

Too many young women -not like your wonderful story here- believing it is their only way to distinguish themselves and not as much effort as college, many careers or working up to higher levels in a job. Celeb media giving this image, they can get a little edge of this world. The ones who do want to get pregnant, I mean, not ones who thought prevention but it didn't work(?) and deal with it bravely and stay independent are most worthy of praise.

[childslibrarian]

150. You are awesome

Thanks for your post. I ran a teenage parent school/parenting program as a clinic social worker. I so admire your post and I feel that you express my deep feelings. I hope one of the girls I worked in Massachusetts feels this way.

[1Hippiechick]

151. PROUD to be on this thread! Well said - we need to KICK & REC TO THE MOON! Better still, this needs

to go viral. Can we make a concerted effort to get this published/picked up across the nation in newspapers? THIS is an AWESOME post.

:applause: :woohoo: :headbang: :yourock:

:woohoo: :headbang: :yourock: :applause

:headbang: :yourock: :applause: :woohoo:


:yourock: :applause: :woohoo: :headbang:

[sellitman]

152. I rec'd # 300

Wish I could of rec'd them all mayself.

Spot on!

[debbierlus]

153. Thanks everyone. I am glad this was useful.

There are MANY women like me. However, the Republican policies have ensured a far harder struggle for many women then I had (and believe me, it was very tough even with help - there are so many more things to write about when you are discussing teen pregnancy, this post is just the very uppermost tip of the iceberg).

Again, thanks all for your kind words.

I am often asked when I relate my experience, if I am pro-choice since I did not choose abortion. I am firmly pro-choice, and I respect every single woman's individual decision to make the right choice for HER. I believe that abortion should be safe and available for all women, and I believe all family planning programs, contraception and abortion procedures should be covered under a single payer not for profit healthcare system.

[Stump]

155. K&R

What an amazing story!!!

[Synnical]

156. .

[desertgirl65]

158. Share this story with everyone you know!!!

Debbie -- thank you! Thank you for sharing this story which is so much like mine and so many other women out there. I, too, was a pregnant teen back in 1982 with a very unsupportive family. Through a lot of hard work and sacrifice, my son (now 25) and I are very successful IT professionals, both with college degrees and great careers. But, like you, it would not have been possible without the programs Teddy Kennedy and other liberal democrats put into place long before the days of Reagan and the right-wing hypocrites. The teen parenting program and its teachers who gave me hope, ADFC and food stamps who sustained us, HUD housing that provided a decent home for us, WIC and Well Baby clinic that taught me how to provide proper nutrition, Pell grants and student loans that allowed me to become financially independent -- all “Liberal” Programs that made it possible for us to take the path to freedom.
Thank you, Debbie, for saying so eloquently and honestly the true story of "liberalism". Everyone -- please share her story with everyone you know!

[hamsterjill]

163. Great information

And I'm proud of you for persevering to get your degree and for your desire to help those teenage girls back in 2000.

[Withywindle]

165. Thank you for this post, and congrats to you and your son!

It also drives home a point: while teenage motherhood is not ideal, the needs of a teen mom and her child are really pretty basic: Healthy food. Medical care. Safe housing. Support and companionship. Education for the sake of the future.

How mean-spirited do you have to be to make a political platform out of denying this? And how terrified of normal human sexuality to be to not acknowledge that for 99.9999999% of human history, puberty WAS considered the beginning of reproductive potential, and that it's just not frakking shocking that post-pubescents will, on occasion, mate and reproduce as their hormones dictate?