I'm sorry but...things just still don't add up

[shellgame26]

So now we're all supposed to be satisfied with the recent disclosures about the Sarah Palin-baby-cover-up rumor. But it still doesn't explain away the absurdity of this woman's actions when her water supposedly broke and the fact that all but one single photograph of her supposedly in her 7th month of pregnancy shows a trim woman with no signs of pregnancy...not to mention the curiously lengthy absence of her daughter from school. I realize that these facts should have by now dissipated from my mind but I can't help but think there's more to this.

If there is one lesson to be learned from the John Edwards affair it is that the cover up is worse than the crime.

[lligrd]

1. If You Mean We Still Have Some Vetting To Do

I agree.

[Matariki]

2. I'm with you. I have a very good bullshit meter - and this story stinks.

Everything about Palin stinks. She's corrupt and dishonest.

[leftofcool]

3. Let me see if I can help

First, her water didn't break, her amniotic fluid was leaking and she had doctors on call for that. Two, when I was 7 months preggers, I weighed 97 pounds and still wore my regular jeans. Small women do not always show much. Some do, some don't. Some of us are just fortunate like that. Third, her daughter may have been ill and doing some home schooling. Email the kid's school and ask. Tell them you are with DU and have a right to know this. Any chance we can hang Palin on some real issues? I realize that the Enquirer believes that Palin's uterus, her daughter's uterus, her husband's penis and her kids' GPA's are just oh so important to national security but here at DU, we do try to keep things in prespective........wait a minute, no we don't....we fall for every rumor that comes down the pike. Never mind.

[Matariki]

6. ?

http://startelegram.typepad.com/politex/2008/04/governors-water.html

where is news to the contrary?

[Nostradammit]

7. She didn't have an aneurism, a blood vessel in her head broke

"her water didn't break, her amniotic fluid was leaking..."

erm, ok.

Many women think that their labor will begin with their water breaking and then the contractions. Contrary to popular belief, this is not always the case. Only 15% of pregnant women have the experience of their water breaking unexpectantly. Most women begin with contractions and then their water breaks (fast gush or slow trickle) or the doctor may break it for them.

Even if you are not having contractions and your water breaks (gush or trickle), call your doctor.

How Do Doctors break your water?

The doctors use an instrument that looks sort of like a long crochet needle (with a hook). They insert the needle (not like a metal needle that you get a shot with) very skillfully and break the amniotic bag with the needle. Most of the time the water will gush out and feel very warm. It does not feel like you have urinated. It feels more like someone taking a bucket of very warm water and pouring it in that general area. You may feel like your abdomen is heavier due to the fetus not being supported anymore by the amniotic fluid.

What if my water breaks and I do not have contractions?

If your water breaks and you are not experiencing any contractions, call your doctor. After the membranes have ruptured, contractions are generally felt within 12 and 24 hours later. If you have not experienced signs of labor, other than your water breaking, between 6 and 24 hours, the doctor will induce labor.


http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/1483/waterbreaking.html

[Matariki]

10. Every news article I've read says her water broke and she was having contractions

If this isn't just your conjecture, provide a link. I don't think she's denied that April article, yet.

[Nostradammit]

14. I wasn't replying to you, it just looks that way

Of course her water broke.

The lame attempt at semantic dissembling is way left of cool.

[Matariki]

17. sorry. it's late.

I don't want the long weekend to be over, so I'm hanging out on the interweb way past my bedtime.

[Nostradammit]

57. 's ok.

:toast:

[lligrd]

8. Funny. I Had The Exact Same Experience Except That I Went

to the hospital and they kept me until I gave birth (seems the risk of infection was to great to allow leaving let alone fly).

[Matariki]

13. And I bet you weren't in your forties, carrying a child with Down Syndrome.

[lligrd]

15. So True. - Just Turned 30

and no other problems.

[emmadoggy]

60. Me too.

My hospital's policy is that if your water breaks, you go to the hospital. End of story. I was carrying twins and was full-term. My water didn't gush, it trickled - just like Palin claims. I called the hospital and was told to come in. I asked if I could shower and clean up first (it was first thing in the morning) and they said yes, but don't dilly-dally - the hospital was a 40 minute drive away. Like Palin, I did not experience any actual labor. However, I was at the hospital, being monitored. The monitors showed that I was contracting, just not strong enough for me to feel. After 12 hours had passed and I was not delivering, I was started on IV antibiotics to prevent infection. I remained at the hospital. I was induced the next day (for two days. Still no labor, so I had a C-sect.).

She, on the other hand, had ruptured membranes and, apparently, no labor, but was 4 weeks EARLY, carrying a known special needs child (who can be born with major medical problems. I know, because my niece has Down Syndrome and had to be flown to a large hospital right after birth due to heart problems and other issues.) AND it was her fifth child - usually, each subsequent pregnancy can get easier and faster. She hops on a plane and spends many hours traveling to get home with no attention or concern paid to the fact that she was pre-term, the possible risks of infection, the medical needs of the baby, or the fact that her labor could have started and progressed very quickly at any time. What she did is simply shocking and disgusting to me. It shows horrible lack of judgement and careless disregard for the safety of her baby (and, possibly herself) and an incredible amount of selfishness.

On edit: Her decision to return to work three days after giving birth to a special needs child is shocking, as well.

[tired_old_fireman]

9. She's a serious liar.

She lied about the bridge to nowhere. She lied about her involvement with troopergate. It's possible that she would lie about anything. She seems like a narcissist who thinks she can get away with anything.

[Matariki]

11. "She seems like a narcissist who thinks she can get away with anything"

bingo.

[NJCher]

21. seems like she did

...spending 20-million spent during the 20 months she was in office as mayor? That's a million a month. She left the town 20 million in debt.



Cher

[Matariki]

23. And it would be very interesting to see who got those contracts.

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. Sounds like bu$h.

[shellgame26]

16. I have no interest in anyone's uterus except my own

and I don't think reacting to a very curious series of events takes away from my concerns for some real issues, nor should I be censored for expressing those concerns. There was practically no vetting of this woman, which seriously calls into question Mccain's jugement. IF there had been, this would have been known to the Mccain campaign (even though they claimed he already knew) and it would have resulted in 2 things A) the announcement would have been made sooner or B) Palin would probably not have been considered. Besides this, the party of the morals police who feel it is their right to control everyone's uterus and to keep sex education out of the public school, is finding themselves in a spotlight which highlights the hypocrisy of their position.

[MichaelHarris]

20. I call your help and raise

my wife is a doctor, delivered her fair share of babies. Her take on this, there is no way in hell she would have been able to fly from Texas to Alaska if her water had broke OR leaked. You saying she had doctors on call is ludicrous, when was the last time you saw an ambulance catch a plane in mid air? You keep trying though, I'll keep smacking down.

[Matariki]

25. I just read your post about the EXIF data

do you have any follow up on that?

I also noticed the spike of activity the past couple days from people with just a few posts showing up just to debunk the Palin pregnancy rumor.

[MichaelHarris]

29. I talked to some

very professional photo editors last night and Photoshop does have the ability to remove EXIF data but only if you choose the "save for the web" option. They told me someone has to make a conscience decision to remove it or save it that way. I went to where most of my online images are and all of my EXIF data shows up as I have no reason to remove it.

[screembloodymurder]

45. I'd be interested in seeing her Doctors phone records from that day.

Just wonder who called who first.

[tavalon]

50. You won't see them

HIPPA rules don't allow for that.

Why is no one looking for the birth certificate? That would clear things up nicely. The one from the original birth, not from the likely adoption.

[shellgame26]

24. and let me also say

my curiosity about this story was the possibility that this woman was LYING ABOUT HERSELF BEING PREGNANT. And I'm sorry but it just still reeks of a cover-up.

[orleans]

27. paging dr. spock: amniotic fluid is the "water"

What happens when the water breaks?
Your baby has been surrounded and protected by a sac of water called amniotic fluid from the beginning of your pregnancy. The fluid cushions your baby to keep him safe and protects him from infection.

Most expectant mothers wonder what it will be like when their water breaks. Many women, as they near the end of pregnancy, are concerned about the possibility of their water breaking in public. They may wonder, Should I keep a change of clothes with me at all times? Should I sit on a rubber sheet in the car?

Actually, only about 10 percent of women rupture the sac of amniotic fluid before labor starts, so it may not even happen to you until you are already in labor and checked in at the hospital. And even if you've already been pregnant and through this process before, your previous experience has no bearing on what will occur this time around.

When your water breaks, you may notice a popping sensation and either a gush or a trickle as some of the amniotic fluid leaks out through your vagina (it may even run down your leg). Some mothers-to-be are not sure what is happening. Did the baby just kick my bladder or did my bag of water break? (One mom told me that she'd been sleeping in a waterbed and was convinced that the bed had sprung a leak!)

Some women first notice that their panties are suddenly wet. This may continue even after several changes of underwear. In this case, you'll want to put on a sanitary pad and lie down for 30 minutes or so. If you feel a small gush when you get up, it's possible that your amniotic sac has indeed ruptured, and you should call your practitioner to find out what to do next.

Once your water breaks, the fluid may continue to slowly leak until you deliver your baby. This happens because amniotic fluid primarily consists of fetal urine, which the baby continues to produce even after the amniotic sac has broken.
http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,6128,00.html

[yardwork]

55. This was her fifth baby and she was big as a house with the previous ones.

But I agree that there are more important things to focus on. It's just that this is rather intriguing.

[Demeter]

4. It's a Faith-Based Campaign

You can't expect accountant's precision from believers.

[radfringe]

5. broader issue

you lightly touched on it - her judgement and decision to get on that plane under those circumstances

even larger and more alarming is mccain's judgement and decision in picking her and his leadership abilities in the wake of all these revelations.

this is what we should be questioning - mccain's judgement, leadership and decision making.

the palin pick puts a spotlight on this and it has become even more obvious that in choosing palin was based on putting POLITICS FIRST

McCain is on his way to being the WORST Presidential CANDIDATE EVER....

[HughBeaumont]

12. Doesn't matter.

IOKIYAR. They can cover ANYthing up. And even if they don't do a very good job of it . . . and they very rarely do . . . it's not as if there's ever going to be backlash or repercussions or anything. Why?

The Docile and Mice-Like American People (well, not really so much them) and The Lapdog Media: What do you say to your liberal critics who think there should be full independent investigations on things like the Downing St. Memo, Election Theft, this supposedly illegal war, 9/11, Plamegate, widespread corporate and Republican corruption, etc.?

Whoever the NeoCon Press Secretary is This Year: There's NO NEED. Nothing stops. This is the way things OUGHT to be. And that's ALL you need to know.

TDAMLP & TLM: (slinks back) Well .. ... OK then.

And this is why they get away with everything: because they know that the American people are too civil, meek, saddled by debt, pacified into eternal comfort by stuff and generally too fearful of their lives to ever physically storm the White House and drag them out in the streets like the dirty proto-fascists they are.

That's the difference between Republicans and Democrats. We own up to our mistakes because we value that trait in good human beings. Republicans don't have it in them to admit they're wrong. EVER.

"The sky is blue." "No it isn't." "Uh, yes it fucking is." "That's your opinion." "Well, OK, Mr Delusional, I guess that's every OTHER color of the rainbow in your screwy little world." "Agree to disagree"

That's how they are. That's how they'll ALWAYS be from now on.

[tbyg52]

30. IOKIYAR.. Bingo. nt

[SoCalDem]

18. Timeline I made..and a new pic of Bristol

[doublethink]

31. Did you see the screen shots of Bristol and her friend .....

by the name of Mercedes from her friends myspace page .... ?

Interesting captions underneath them .... here's the link ..... go to the far right scroll a little bit down and read up on what seems to be Bristol's sister in-law ..... pic of the baby with Sarah too check out the captions ...

here's the link ..... http://cvxn.tumblr.com/

note: the actual myspace page was taken down bout 12 hours ago or so from what transpired but a few people got some interesting screen shots.

note 2: a comment on the page intrigued me too "— Really, Mercedes? This is how you want her to go down? A MySpace photo caption?" -snip that's near the bottom of the page. Peace.

[quercus palustris]

33. Yup. That confirms my suspicion.

I thought at first that Bristol was sitting back and enjoying her mother's negative publicity. Now I'm wondering if that's what she hoped for all along.

[doublethink]

34. Welcome to DU quercus palustris !!!

:hi: Another interesting day of news coming up ...... this Sarah Palin is going to be one for the history books. Geesh .....

[soleft]

19. It makes you wonder if they pushed the internet rumor to begin with

Like, oh, her daughter's pregnant? Well, that's so much better than that other story that was other there. What a relief!

[Waiting For Everyman]

22. Frankly, I think she threw Bristol under the bus to keep from

showing the birth certificate. I agree, something's still fishy, because no parent would put this kind of spotlight on a daughter under such circumstances. She's either the most chronically ambitious person ever alive, or she's still hiding something worth hiding.

Also, the biggy... she's been persecuting Mike Wooten (her ex-brother in law, the State Trooper of 'TrooperGate') for 3 years because he knows something which could ruin her. I'd bet it's something no one else knows too.

It all started when her sister left her cell phone on speaker during one of their fights, and Sarah overheard him say he'd "bring Sarah down" if she interfered in the custody case. Right then, she started trying to discredit him and get him fired. And she hasn't stopped trying since.

Somebody should get that custody file out of the local courthouse, and check it out.

[SoCalDem]

28. timeline..math & biology something does not add up

[eowyn_of_rohan]

52. It adds up perfectly if you consider the possibility that Bristle is pg for the 2nd time

about July 2007 - Bristle gets pg.
late Dec 2007-early Jan 2008 - Bristle starts to show so leaves school
8 March 2008 - Mommy Dearest claims she is pg to cover for Bristle's baby, due soon.
Between 8 March - 9 April 2008 - Bristle gives birth.
April 2008 -Bristle again becomes pg
Jan 2009 - 9 months later, Bristle's 2nd kid born

Anybody know if or when she went back to school this past semester?

[SoCalDem]

54. nope.. Someone said she might be homeschooling

remember the mono story??

[eowyn_of_rohan]

56. oops-misread your post

So she never did go back to school this past semester and was "homeschooled" or at her Aunt's house or something... I think 'Trig" is her baby.

[NNN0LHI]

37. Birth certificates are public record

Why doesn't some reporter just go over to city hall and request a copy of one?

Don

[Matariki]

38. I don't think they actually are. You have to be immediate family.

http://www.vitalchek.com/agency_locator.aspx?providerid=9974

[screembloodymurder]

48. She could be hiding a felony.

If the child is not hers and her insurance is paying the bills, it's insurance fraud.

[Kolesar]

26. Subject line needs some work

...more specificity

[tannybogus]

32. Nixon was a huge example of the coverup is worse than the crime!

And yet, it still happens over and over.

This should be a political mantra.

[Liberalatus]

35. I think we should...

Demand to see a birth certificate for the baby, like they did Barack. Not that I think it would matter. The small town she comes from would be easy to cover up anything. I agree that Barack has to take the position he did about involving family, but this situation, true or false, gives us a lot of insight into the Palin's character and judgment. If what she says is true, that is a serious offense on her judgment. However, it does stink. Can anyone confirm if Bristol is actually pregnant, or how far along the Dr says she is? And I am almost betting something goes awry with the pregnancy, a miscarriage or something. And someone needs to get an interview with her ex bro-in-law. They flew all the way across the world to hunt Obama's step brother down. Do some actual nitty-gritty journalism. But again, I bet no one in that sleepy little town will talk.
One last thing, on the form she filled out giving her views on different subjects, she said she would not support comprehensive sex education (only abstinence-until-marriage education) AND she said it was up to the PARENTS to give good education. Now, does this not weaken her on something? How good was HER parental education to Bristol? How is that abstinence-only education working out for you? But, no, this is not a mistake, its a blessing! Everyone else's teen pregnancy is a tragedy, and a sin, and bad parenting, but HER OWN is wonderful. If its not so bad, than why does she think no one should be talking about it? Why treat it with such shame, if there's nothing wrong with it? The most hypocrisy I've seen since Cheney and his gay daughter being off limits, I think.

[Waiting For Everyman]

39. I agree.

And you're so right with your point at the end there. That's a political issue. McC and Palin both voted against sex-ed. So that's another thing he's wrong on - add it to the list.

By the way, Palin was so proud of Bristol that they had her living with an aunt in Anchorage while she was supposedly out of school. She wasn't out of school. She didn't have mono either (I'll bet). She was in another school. Salon reported that. I understand her getting out of town, but the lie by the mother is the point.

I wouldn't be surprised at a "miscarriage" for Bristol either.

[screembloodymurder]

49. Where are you getting this info?

If she was going to school in Anchorage, maybe they just didn't want her seeing her boyfriend. If she was in Anchorage and wasn't in school, maybe they didn't want her seeing anyone.

[ehrnst]

36. Many things don't add up...

1. "Golly Gee, I don't even know what a VP does!" - Is that supposed to make us believe that she has no agenda whatsoever, particularly for Alaskan Oil interests, or make the fundies think that she's got the appropriate humility for a Christian woman? I guess it's working for the fundies.

2. Announces Pregnant teenage daughter will marry and raise the baby - so why all the hiding from everyone for months - even schoolmates - with a "she's sick with Mono" story? And if the girl is 5 mos along, that means that she was impregnated during the mono outbreak... So either the mono story or the 5 mos along story isn't true. What else are they hiding? (Not that it's our business, but someone that has a lot of shame and secrets is a prime blackmail target.)

3. She's pregnant with what she knows is a special needs baby, goes into preterm labor. Instead of going to a hospital, she gives a speech, then gets on a plane for a long flight.

4. Is a staunch social conservative, has the luxury of a job with maternity leave, yet takes zero time off work when she has a baby.

[Waiting For Everyman]

40. Bingo! It's the timing...

Why would they get Bristol out of town to the aunt's place, before she had a reason to go there?

Dead fishy.

[Waiting For Everyman]

41. I found the Salon ref, check this out...

Republican family values: Episode 5,728
Why was Bristol Palin not living at home and instead attending high school 43 miles away in Anchorage, where she was living with her aunt?

The Washington Post reports today:

Bristol Palin attended high school in Wasilla, where her mother grew up. But it was widely reported by town residents that while the Palins continued to live on Lucille Lake in Wasilla, she had moved to the home of an aunt in Anchorage and was attending high school there.

And, later in the piece, there seems to be confirmation that the father, Levi, in question, is Levi Johnston of Wasilla:

In Wasilla, a young woman who answered the door at the home of Levi Johnston said, "Any comment will have to come from the campaign."

― Thomas Schaller

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/

I don't have time to look for the WaPo article, but maybe someone else can track it down.

[Matariki]

61. What happened to the 'out with mono' excuse?

c

[SoCalDem]

42. timeline

[oldskool]

43. Does anyone care about

real issues? It sure doesn't seem so. 

[SoCalDem]

46. try here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=latest_threads

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. nope. on either side. sad thing is that i thought we were better than that.

on the republican side they love that she hunts and fishes

on our side we obsess about her parenting and child bearing habits

its really quite pathetic

[screembloodymurder]

51. Insurance fraud is a serious issue.

No?

[Orsino]

59. Not to mention endangering her own life and that of her baby...

...with the horrific decisions to travel to Texas when eight months pregnant, to delay her departure from a political event after her water broke, to conceal her condition from an airline, and to bypass excellent neonatal ICU facilities in three different cities.

She makes lousy and dangerous decisions, which disqualifies her from any public office.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

53. I care about real issues - such as having a VP that is not a corrupt liar

And if this expose helps remove her from the ticket that would be great.

[ehrnst]

58. If a public figure is involved in coverups, they are an easy target for extortion.

This was the main concern I had with the Clinton/Lewinsky affair.

I truly am not concerned with what consenting adults do with each other in private, however, when a public official does something they are desperate to hide, they are vulnerable to those who know, and want something from them.

There seems to be a pattern emerging from Sarah Palin as a public official that is one of secrecy. YES there are things that are personal, family matters. However, as a public official, you have less privacy and more accountability to the public for the reason I stated above.

This is why on a security clearance application, you are told to list any and all illegal activities you have participated in, and are guaranteed tht you will not be prosecuted for listing them. This immunizes against extortion.

What I want to know is why she felt that she had to hide Bristol's pregnancy, if she was indeed proud of her daughter's choice to give birth. If indeed she never planned to have an abortion, then it was inevitable and neccessary that it would become public, and would not be a matter of privacy.

If she feels a need to protect her daughter from the limelight, she has chosen the wrong profession.

[JuniperLea]

62. If they fake a miscarriage...

We'll know for sure.

That poor girl. Her mother really put her in a very bad spot... as if preggers at 17 wasn't enough.

[SoCalDem]

63. she's about at the point where a funeral would be required

In Indiana it was 6 months..a friend miscarried at 6 months & they called it a stillbirth, they had to have a death certificate and a burial.. It was heartwrenching for them..

They will have to move quickly , if this is the "plan"6