If you don't want to read anothor thread about sexism, don't click here.

[kiva]

Anyone who wants to pretend that sexism doesn't exist on DU has their head up their ass. Yesterday dozens of threads were posted about Palin, dwelling on her looks and whether or not her youngest child is really her daughter's son. The latter led to way too many posts about water breaking, and close-up photos of her 16 year old daughter's tummy. One poster briefly (thank God) put up a sig line debating on the size of Palin's vagina. When several people pointed out that this was sexist bullshit, the offenders whined that this was all about Palin, a Republican slut, so why would any woman here be offended?

Today, it should have been over, right? These prepubescent little thugs had 24 hours to vent, so we should be back to discussing the real reasons to oppose McCain/Palin. Obviously not. Now the National Enquirer readers say that they were not only certain that Palin's daughter gave birth to the baby (evidence, we don't need no stinkin' evidence), but that Palin's husband is the father. Incest is sooo edgy, you know.

If it was only these scummy minded morons, it would be bad enough but no, let's insult any woman who would think about running for political office. Oh no, if Palin becomes president, she might get pregnant! And everyone knows that the reason her daughter is/was pregnant is that Palin was a working mother. So there it is--don't even consider running for office if you're of childbearing age...but after that, you'll remind the immature little darlings of their mother or teacher, and they won't vote for you. If you have children at home, you better not have worked until they turned 18, or you're obviously an uncaring mother.

For anyone who doesn't think these comments aren't sexist, try this: go tell your mother that a pregnant woman is incompetent. On Monday, tell all the mothers who work in your office that they are lousy mothers. Or better yet, tell your female boss that she looks like she could take 10 inches.

[golddigger]

1. Thank you for this and everyone here wonders why there are pissed off women out there about this

whole election.

[JerseygirlCT]

2. Well, I haven't had much access the last few days

so I haven't read all of this.

But for me, the objection isn't to her as a woman, it's to her and her atrocious positions, and her unbelievable lack of experience.

AND my objection is to the McCain camp, which most definitely managed to be both sexist and pandering in their choice of a women they didn't know, barely vetted, and who has very little experience... SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN.

That's just the other side of the coin from never choosing a woman. Either she's got the good or she doesn't - her gender really ought not to qualify or disqualify her. But I feel that's the only reason she was chosen, and I find it offensive.

I don't care if her daughter had a baby at 16. I do care that she'd like to see every pregnant woman have to carry to term - including victims of rape and incest.

[kiva]

3. That's the point!

Let's talk about her "drill anywhere" philosophy. Let's talk about her fiscal record as mayor. Let's talk about her anti-choice stance. Hell, let's talk about why McCain thinks she should be VP just because she's a woman. But insulting her BECAUSE she's a woman is counterproductive, and just plain stupid.

[DaveinMD]

5. this is what my wife said

her wacked out socially conservative position on abortion, birth control and other issues make it completely hypercritical that she would even run for office because her stances keep other women from making choices. I don't disagree.

[kiva]

8. It is that whacked out conservative position we should be going after.

And we can win.

[DaveinMD]

14. I completely agree

though I think her lack of experience is fair game.

[kiva]

20. Absolutly!

Her lack of experience, combined with McCain's age, is a damn real concern. Just saying that we can talk about this without saying that she should be home with her children instead of running for office.

[DaveinMD]

22. those words should never be uttered

Democrats should be about equality of opportunity for everyone. That's why I became a Democrat.

[tammywammy]

4. From what I see today, I'm damn glad I was gone from DU yesterday

[kiva]

6. And it's still around.

Is it all that difficult to understand? Insulting Palin because of her actions in office or what she wants to do=OK. Saying that she's incompetent/stupid because she's a woman=not OK.

[bkkyosemite]

7. For me it's about integrity and if the story is true (which will be hard to prove) she has none.

If she concocted this elaborate story to hide the fact her daughter had a child out of wedlock and would make her look bad then her integrity, honesty and values are in question. It would mean she lied to her staff, her state's poplulation and now the entire country. And if true she is making her entire family lie.

We will never be able to prove it as medical record disclosure issues would not allow it. Her daughter does look pregnant to me and Palin does not in the pics I have seen.

If true it's about lying, it's about honesty, it's about integrity. But like I said we will never know for sure.

I think this subject will slowly fade away. She was only picked yesterday.

[kiva]

9. But the problem is that we don't know.

I think there's enough in her official record to question her integrity without pushing rumors that no one can substantiate. We were all outraged at the lying internet rumors about our candidate, so why are we so ready to believe this?

[undeterred]

10. I think you mis-characterize both the nature of the threads on DU

and the importance of the story about Palin's child. It does matter whether or not a candidate for Vice President lies about whether or not she was pregnant and gave birth to a child, just as it matters whether she is guilty of other matters for which she is under investigation.

I did not see anyone say that Palin should be disqualified for running for Vice President because she might become pregnant, only concern for a special needs infant which would be difficult to care for during a full time campaign. Its a legitimate concern.

[kiva]

11. But we don't know, so doesn't it make sense to concentrate on what we can prove?

As to the "what if she got pregnant again", here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6826395&mesg_id=6826395

[undeterred]

13. I think the truth will come out on this in a matter of days.

As for the "what if she got pregnant as president" question- well, I think its a little archaic. This is obviously not a fragile woman, so I think she would take less time off than Bush has- he's taken the equivalent of one entire year of vacation during eight years.

[katandmoon]

12. If she were a progressive candidate who supported reproductive rights, universal health care, living

wages, etc., this wouldn't be an issue for her. But isn't, she doesn't, so it is.

It's not a matter of her being female. It's a matter of her being an anti-female female. She's trying to have it both ways - to benefit from the work all the brave women before her did to help clear her path to public office, and then to turn the clock back so that the women who come after her, whether or not they are as privileged as she has been, are fast-tracked to the dark ages where women have no control over their bodies. That doesn't set well with me. At all.

I consider myself a feminist. I would never call Palin or any other woman a slut. I would call her a self-serving, dishonest politician who has abused her office for her own gain. Whether or not her pregnancy was a hoax should theoretically be her business, but I find her so utterly repellent and so threatening - because her bizarre but calculated selection as McCain's VP was so obviously orchestrated with some devious purpose in mind, and I don't just mean to siphon off Hillary supporter votes from Obama - that I favor throwing everything at her that can possibly be thrown.

This is no time to be squeamish or to take the high road. We do not have the luxury. This is all-out war. This is the time to fight with the only weapons the repugs understand.

[kiva]

17. Again, this is exactly what we should be doing.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be saying exactly that--no high road here--but the cowardly keyboard warriors who post crap about pregnant women, working mothers, and women in politics aren't saying this, they're displaying their dislike of women.

[katandmoon]

19. I realized this board was SUFFUSED with misogyny when I first came here as a Hillary Clinton

supporter during the primaries. So really -- this is nothing new! The sexism won't go away, so at least let it find a more deserving target in a Christian fundie hypocrite in Sarah Palin.

[kiva]

21. No, I don't agree.

Honestly, if we think that it's OK to say these things about Palin because we don't like what she stands for, how do we revoke that right when they attack women we DO admire? I understand your anger, but we need to protest this sort of misogyny no matter how deserving the target.

[katandmoon]

23. My point is -- we CAN'T stop this. Misogyny is too integral to our culture.

So I have to choose my battles. I can't fight them all. I'm not going to waste my emotional and time resources on defending somebody like Palin. Let her own "side" defend her. Yes, I know they will attack Democrats for being big old meanies to poor little Sarah, but they do that anyway, no matter what.

I admire your idealism and if the stakes weren't so high I'd probably be more in agreement with it, but I want Sarah Palin to go DOWN in flames, I want her to take McCain with her, and I'm not choosy how it happens.

[kiva]

26. It exists, but it can be minimized.

It wasn't that long ago that racism was also accepted as the norm--terms like the n word were acceptable, and overt racism was front and present in politics, business, and most other areas of society. With years of steady pressure, we have made racism socially unacceptable. Does it still exist? Of course it does, but in dark corners. No politician would dare to be openly racist; celebrities such as Howard Stern have discovered that, shock jock or no, some things aren't acceptable to broader society.

This is a labeled a "progressive" board, and this sort of sexist garbage doesn't belong here; OK, it doesn't belong anywhere, but especially not among a group of people who call themselves progressives. If people begin challenging these posters, they will likely reconsider posting this tripe or leave. A few would continue, but the volume of bile would be vastly reduced--not a world-changing event, but one way to improve our little part of the world.

[RadicalTexan]

28. Wow, you've opened up my eyes - I'll start choosing my battles, too

I'm white, so I guess I'll let the blacks defend their own "side" from now on. I mean, it's so TIRING being anti-misogynist AND anti-racist at the same time.

[katandmoon]

29. Good for you! Go for it! I'm sitting this one out.

[TahitiNut]

15. Don't kill the messenger. GOP tokenism - 'female' as a commodity - is being highlighted.

This is a singularly abysmal selection for VP. As succinctly noted on another site ...

McCain has made the perfect choice.

No one can criticize anything he's ever done because he was a P.O.W.

No one can criticize anything she's ever done because she has a vagina.

Dream ticket all the way.

DON'T help the GOP spray on the Teflon!!

[kiva]

18. Please read my OP.

Nowhere do I say

No one can criticize anything she's ever done because she has a vagina.

Would she have done these stupid things if she had a penis? If so, then why is it important that she has a vagina? The only Teflon that interests me is our own, and talking about the size of her vagina and calling her a slut weakens our position in any political debate.

[Captain Hilts]

16. We live in a country that doesn't trust a woman to host a game show on TV. nt

[Subdivisions]

24. I agree. That's why I'm staying out of those 300 threads. In fact, I

spent the entire day yesterday and most of the first half of this day in the 9/11 dungeon to avoid it.

That said, a woman with her ideology is not attractive to me - at all. She is corrupt. She is vile. So is cheeney. No sexism there.

[woo me with science]

25. Thank you. nt

[kiva]

27. You're welcome!

:hi:

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. Rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth hatred tends to do that to people.

I laugh when I read that right wing radio talkers promote hatred. I get my daily hatred fix right here on DU.

[kiva]

32. I know there's plenty of it here. *sigh*

But there are also some great posters, and that's why I keep coming back. The hit and run snark is the price for reading this site--doesn't mean we can't complain about it, though.

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. I totally agree

There ARE some amazing people here. It's why I keep coming back as well.

[Adelante]

31. Recommended

:thumbsup:

[Taverner]

34. Can't we just fixate on her being the LEAST QUALIFIED IN HISTORY???

Seriously - we have so much red meat here it's embarrassing to not chew the shit out of it...