Liar who dragged Duke Lacrosse players through the mud to release book

[bluestateguy]

Why she was never charged with fraud and obstruction of justice is beyond me, but plenty of people still want to make excuses for her.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6343080

DURHAM (WTVD) -- Since three former Duke Lacrosse players were declared innocent of rape and assault charges, the alleged victim in the highly publicized Duke Lacrosse case has remained out of public view until now.

In a press release, Crystal Mangum's manager has announced plans to release a tell-all memoir entitled "The Last Dance for Grace: The Crystal Mangum Story."

According to the book's co-author Vincent Clark, the book will be released in October.

more

[Fenris]

1. Mangum? Really?

[Kitty Herder]

103. Huh? What's wrong with Mangum?

I know lots of Mangums. Rednecks, but other than that, pretty cool people.

[Athletic Grrl]

129. Sounds like

her stripper name.

[Bob Dobbs]

2. Duke lacrosse players dragged themselves through mud

by having drunken parties with strippers.

That the DA couldn't get a conviction on the rape charge hardly exonerates them.

[Pavulon]

5. Bullshit. I live here

the da is going to jail because he pushed a race baiting case. He disregarded fact.

If she goes through with this she can be charged with perjury and sued after she is convicted.

They will wreck her shitty life.

It is not illegal to get drunk with strippers.

Better count me a felon.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

7. As I recall, the Duke players were completely exonerated

by the state's independent investigation.

[dems_rightnow]

13. Even more

They declared them "completely innocent". That's essentially unheard of.

Yet to some it still feels better to hate them because they were rich, white frat boys. Completely innocent be damned.

[NashVegas]

8. "It's Not Illegal ...."

It is if you're under 21.

[bluestateguy]

9. They why weren't they prosecuted for underage drinking?

nt

[NashVegas]

30. Sophist Tripe

[TheWraith]

61. And done by 90% of all people between 18 and 21. Get over it. nt

[NashVegas]

67. Still More Sophist Tripe

[TheWraith]

78. Glad to see you can only respond with nonsense rather than facts.

It means you can't argue the point.

[Bob Dobbs]

11. The OP said "dragged through the mud", not illegal.

Drunken partying with strippers is not the standard I would set for athletes from my alma mater.

The DA is going to jail because he dared prosecute elitist punks.

[Selatius]

17. The law demands guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The DA failed to meet THAT standard.

In addition to failing that, he was disbarred for judicial mischief for political ends, and now he is going to jail for it. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is what criminal law is concerned with, not whether the innocent are morally upright citizens.

[bluestateguy]

29. There are also standards for bringing a case to trial

You can't just try any case you want to. There are certain standards of evidence that have to be met to even bring a case to trial. EVEN that standard was not met by the DA. To meet that standard he falsified and fabricated evidence.

Mike Nifong would have fit right in in George W. Bush and Alberto Gonzalez's "Justice" Department.

[NeedleCast]

18. FTFY

The DA is going to jail because he dared falsely prosecute innocent elitist punks.

[dems_rightnow]

21. When he knew they were innocent

[Lex]

35. The DA is not going to jail.

I think that is untrue.

[NeedleCast]

40. (I know)

That post was a bit of snark at the person championing Nifong.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

41. He was promptly disbarred

and you have to engage in wildly inappropriate behavior to get disbarred, especially if you were a prosecutor. Nifong's misconduct was so egregious and so out of bounds there was no choice but to disbar him.

[LisaL]

47. He did go to jail. For a very short time. He is already out.

[Lex]

50. so he's not "going" to jail -- he did a day already

for contempt of court

[LisaL]

52. Yes, he already served his time. Short as it was.

[Lance_Boyle]

165. he did serve one day, IIRC

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070901/ai_n19502152

[bluestateguy]

28. You have convinced me

to go online and buy a Duke Lacrosse T-shirt.

[NashVegas]

68. If You Do

Make sure it says, "Thank your granddaddy for picking cotton so we can wear these Izods."

[progdonkey]

46. so they deserved to be put in prison...

These athletes (oh, sorry, I mean "elitist punks") failed to live up to your "standard," so they should rot in jail. What a fair, just, and rational person you are.

And Mike Nifong spent ONE DAY in jail on contempt charges. He was disbarred (the first sitting DA in NC to be so) for, among other things, putting his political ambitions ahead of the proper execution of Justice. He did everything he could to ruin those guys' lives just so he could look tough on crime and willing to take on "elitist punks."

That you still defend him is either pathetic or disgusting... or perhaps both. :puke:

Arguing that someone is guilty because he's wealthy and white is just a vile, bigoted, and detrimental to justice as saying he's guilty because he's poor and black.

[LittleClarkie]

72. Or assuming someone is telling the truth based on their race, sex or choice of jobs

An odd sort of bigotry in an of itself. Can't we just deal with the facts, and let the chips fall where they may?

[TheWraith]

62. The DA is going to jail because he committed half a dozen crimes

In the course of pursuing bogus charges.

[Mike Daniels]

71. The DA also tried to intimidate a cab driver who provided an air tight alibi for one of the accused

Defend that if you can.

Oh, that's right, you CAN'T.

[Captain Sensible]

90. your class envy in nauseating....nt

[onenote]

94. the DA went to jail because he abused his office

[Lex]

27. What? "the DA is going to jail?"

Gotta link for that?

[NeedleCast]

31. I Don't Think he Went to Jail

He was removed as DA and disbarred.

Even Nifong and his attorneys supported the decision, though the veteran prosecutor refused to admit to the end that no crime occurred at a March 2006 lacrosse team party.

The committee said Nifong manipulated the investigation to boost his chances of winning his first election for Durham County district attorney. In doing so, he committed “a clear case of intentional prosecutorial misconduct” that involved “dishonesty, fraud, deceit and misrepresentation.”

[Selatius]

33. He did serve jail time for being in criminal contempt of court. Of course, he served only 1 day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong#Sentence_and_Jail

[Pavulon]

32. Sorry Nifong is in civil

litigation. He was disbarred and is financially destroyed.

[defendandprotect]

36. It was illegal on that campus to get drunk --- there were underaged members there ---

and that frat house was being shut down ---

This is all nothing new -- it was quite clear that none of this was unusual
on this campus ---

[NeedleCast]

42. Drinking and strippers are nothing unusual on about 95% of college campuses

[Name removed]

58. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kwassa]

77. drinking yes, strippers, no.

I never heard of any strippers on any campus I was ever on.

[onenote]

96. then you need to get around to some more campuses

[defendandprotect]

159. ...and that should make clear that what we're talking about is a heavil y MALE-

dominated society at Duke --

Strippers and demeaning attitudes towards women isn't something that females arrange --

they participate in it out of fear --

[AZ Criminal JD]

104. If the only campus you have been on is Oral Roberts University, then yes.

[kwassa]

117. can't say that I've been there, or would want to be.

Brown University, Rhode Island School of Design, UCLA, Pepperdine University, Oberlin College, and two community colleges.

No strippers.

Where are strippers hired for college parties?

[RoyGBiv]

131. Well, I wouldn't say that ...

I have it on good authority that certain students of Oral U have had parties where strippers attended.

That good authority would be the stripper who attended.

[AZ Criminal JD]

135. That was just a guess. So then there are no colleges when they haven't been.

[defendandprotect]

158. That doesn't change the University rules . . . that frat house was being shut down . . .

it was the last of them to go ---

and the university had had many problems with the Lacrosse players before this --

[bluestateguy]

6. It does as far as the law is concerned

The law is not concerned with whether or not someone is a good guy. The law is concerned with the law.

Face it. The militant feminists got pwn3d in this case.

[Bob Dobbs]

15. And the dukies were still wallowing in the mud.

As stated elsewhere, the op's premise was "dragged through the mud" as if the athletes were somehow victims because they chose to have drunken sex parties with strippers.

george bush has never been "convicted" of any of his crimes, but that doesn't mean he is not wallowing in the figurative mud.

[NeedleCast]

19. Progressive Morality Police

never ceases to amaze....

[Selatius]

20. There's nothing progressive about falsely accusing someone of a crime.

Progressive Morality Police aren't here in this thread.

[NeedleCast]

25. I think you misunderstood

[cobalt1999]

23. The athletes WERE the victims in this case.

What you are doing is no better than those that question the morals of a woman who was actually raped.

Just as bad but in reverse. You should be ashamed to call yourself a liberal and a Democrat.

[defendandprotect]

63. Maybe . . . we don't know because so far no one has talked . . .

and then again, maybe the "victim" is the victim ---

[tammywammy]

65. No evidence suggested that she was raped

Everything she said was counterpointed by actual hard evidence. They weren't just declared "not guilty" they were declared "innocent."

She lied about all of it.

[defendandprotect]

81. The hospitals records indicate that she was raped ---

[tammywammy]

86. There was no evidence that any of the Duke Lacross players raped her

Zero.

She said they didn't use a condom. There was semen from two men and neither matched any of the Duke Lacross players. She may have been raped, but it wasn't by them.

[defendandprotect]

92. It wasn't by those who were alleged to be present . . .

but hospital records say that she was raped ---

and she certainly didn't come to the household in the condition she left it in !!!

[tammywammy]

100. They testsed the DNA of ALL the lacross players minus one

Because she said it was white men that raped her, they didn't test the DNA of the black player.

None of the semen in her matched ANY of the lacross players. She may have been raped but not by any of the lacross players.

[defendandprotect]

109. They tested the DNA of those SAID to have been present ---

others we may not be aware of may have been present ---

Also, I believe she suggested that her mouth had been rinsed out by those who abused her ---

Again -- many questions remain and I doubt we will have answers to them in the near future.

We can only hope that one day the truth may be known ---

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

146. The truth is known to those who wish to see it.

She had rough sex with 2 men she knew, then went to a party to accuse a bunch of rich white kids of rape in hopes of getting rich.

[LisaL]

110. Hospital records don't say she was raped.

She had some swelling found during the examination, which can be obtained through ways other than rape.

[onenote]

97. no, the hospital records indicated she had sex..with someone other than the dukies

[marshall]

128. That was explained by a couple's testimony--

Mangum used an electric dildo for a private performance for a couple in their hotel room a day or two before her encounter with the lacrosse team. The abrasions and swelling were from the dildo and not a rape.

[LittleClarkie]

75. But the charge wasn't about having drunken sex parties

It was about rape.

That's the mud.

And indeed, just because they weren't charged doesn't mean they couldn't have been guilty. But it doesn't mean they couldn't be innocent either. Whether or not you personally like these men or their lifestyle has nothing at all to do with whether or not they were guilty or innocent.

Can we deal with the facts?

[Thothmes]

38. Having a beer party with strippers hardly

warrants felony prosecution.

[lildreamer316]

44. Thank you...

says the stripper.

[lildreamer316]

43. Being a stripper, I take exception to your tone.

AND I live in NC.

Way to generalize.

Been there, done that, NEVER RAPED. I don't know what the truth is, but I'm sure it lies somewhere in between.

[keroro gunsou]

76. three sids to every story

his
her
the truth.

personally, at the minimum the duke men, and they are men, not boys, are guilty of aggravated sexual battery, underaged drinking, and behaving like spoiled frat boys. however, the evidence bore out they were innocent by the legal standard.

doesn't excuse them for being monumentally stupid for what they did, mind you.

[benEzra]

84. Except the DNA evidence that Nifong suppressed...

showed that NONE of the accused had had sex with the woman in question. NONE of them.

There was DNA from other men (more than one), but not from any of the Duke lacrosse players.

Nifong was given that information, and buried it because it refuted the case he wanted to bring.

[keroro gunsou]

87. i'm just sayin....

normally there are three sides to a story... though i think the dna falls into the truth category...

oh well, they still acted stupid and deserve some public humiliation... which they've gotten, and now we should let it go.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

147. You said they were guilty of aggravated sexual battery.

[Regret My New Name]

66. lolwut?

[MrCoffee]

88. That the DA and the stripper made shit up is what completely exonerates them

[Captain Sensible]

89. Bet your life is fun....

Yeah lets ruin everyone's life who had a drunken encounter with a stripper when young.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[crimsonblue]

4. I wonder who will play her

in the inevitable Lifetime movie based on the book.

[Selatius]

10. It's because of women like her who poison the well that other women suffer.

Because it makes it easier to attack the plaintiff as a liar regardless of truth, and if there is even any appearance of the plaintiff being "loose" or "friendly" with the guys, then she is automatically labeled a whore as well as a gold digger on top of being a liar.

[TahitiNut]

16. No kidding.

There are LEGIONS of people who exploit the victims of atrocious acts. Lowest of the low.

[Bob Dobbs]

22. "women like her"? A black, sex worker?

Like the girl that Kobe Bryant forced anal sex on and who was pressured so much, even having her life threatened, that she dropped the case, much to the chagrin of the Eagle County DA's who had a case they could win. Oh, yeah, she was a slut who had others semen on her undergarments, so that made it OK for Kobe to force sodomy on her.

This case reeks of the same sort of shenanigans.

It's a great one for racist, anti-feminists to justify their sociopathology with.

[Selatius]

26. Wow, you're the first one who brought up the issue of race in this thread.

Not me.

[Pavulon]

34. Really

who cares if she is black. She is a lying piece of shit who was willing to put people in jail for 20 years because she was mad.

She can be charged with perjury. She will be charged and her life destroyed like nifong (the da) if she continues.

[Marr]

39. Let me get this straight. Anyone who doesn't support this liar

is a racist and a misogynist?

That is just... strange.

[Hosnon]

49. WTF? Why did you pick those two characteristics?

Oh wait, you want this to be about race...

[LisaL]

51. I don't think Kobe was ever accused of sodomy.

The girl was white, and not a sex worker. She was a hotel clerk.

[Ikonoklast]

55. So, according to you, perjury is acceptable

Hope you are never on the receiving end of a malicious Grand Jury investigation, with a corrupt DA feeding them lies from a witness in order to further his political career.

I guess justice would eventually be done, after you served twenty years.

But that's okay with you, even if the evidence is all proven to be false.

[lildreamer316]

45. Yes, she made it harder for the rest of us in the industry.

I doubt we will ever know what really happened, but the bottom line is that for any of us in the industry..if we ever yell about sexual harrassment or rape, we already are laughed into oblivion by ALL sides; or told that our CHOICE of profession is 'degrading' and wrong, and we should promptly move on to something else.

I am a member on a (PRIVATE) board for my profession, and one girl was talking about how a manager raped her and threw her out on the street. She never reported it. Wonder why. :sarcasm:
Only good thing about that story is that the club he was managing just got closed by the city, and I think he is facing drug charges.

[cobalt1999]

12. She's the only one who profited by the whole thing.

She had people offering to pay her college tuition, she gets to have a book deal, she wasn't arrested (even though she should have been).

She's made out like a bandit on this.

[slackmaster]

14. If you ever see a porn film with an older male star billed as Duke Lacrosse

That will be me.

[Mugu]

24. With any luck the guys will wait until all the work is done and the book is on sale.

Then sue her ass for all proceeds.

[LisaL]

48. They certainly could sue her. Book or no book.

I am wondering as to why they didn't to this date. Probably cause she had no considerable assets, so even in case the lawsuit was successful, they wouldn't get much of anything.

[NeedleCast]

53. Suing Nifong

I think the civil trial is pending. Nifong attempted to file for bankruptcy to avoid the suit and the judge said no dice.

[LisaL]

54. But not her.

[NeedleCast]

56. No assest

blood from a rock, and all that. I think she was also sent (or possibly volunteered) to go to a mental health facility for awhile. She would be a very hard target to sue, defense would claim she was not mentally healthy.

[LisaL]

57. And yet she is writing a book.

[NeedleCast]

60. Yup

I'd bet it's being ghost written, but yup. And then she will have some assets, although I think a good lawyer would still get her off.

[defendandprotect]

37. The racial power exists . . . but in the reverse direction -- and Nifong suffered the backlash . . .

[LittleClarkie]

69. Or maybe she didn't.

As I think you said elsewhere, we may never know the truth. On what do you base this presumption of innocence on her part? Her race? Her sex? Her choice of profession?

How about facts? Do you have any facts you're basing your opinion on? Or is it a kneejerk emotional reaction?

[defendandprotect]

82. You're exaggerating what I've said . . . . which is that we don't know what happened . . .

What we're seeing here in this thread is an effort to say "case closed/tied up with a bow" ---
but there is no such thing --

The case has ended only with questions --- lingering questions ---

Again --- hospital examinations say that this woman was raped ---
and that certainly suggests that something did happen that night --

Since this young woman --- alleged victim --- was not on trial or charged with anything,
I think your description of my "presuming her innocence" suggests a confused desire in
your own mind to play it that way.

This woman is the alleged VICTIM ---

And neither have the young men been found innocent of anything since no charges were
filed and there was no trial.

Meanwhile, we may one day find out what actually happened ---

. . . in the Tawana Brawley case there was one suicide ---

[Initech]

59. This scandal just refuses to die, doesn't it?

[Mike Daniels]

73. Only because there's people like those on this board who "know" something happened

despite the lack of any physical evidence and Nifong's admission that there was no "there" there.

[defendandprotect]

80. The hospital records suggest that the victim was raped . . . .

just as in the Tawana Brawley case ---

[noamnety]

83. Shhhh.

The duke defenders would prefer not to be bothered with your pesky medical evidence and facts. ;)

[benEzra]

85. That "pesky medical evidence" was what Nifong covered up...

because NONE of the DNA was from any of the Duke Lacrosse players. That's why Nifong covered it up, and why he was later disbarred for it.

[noamnety]

91. You must be a joy around rape victims.

I don't understand the mindset that wants to put rape victims in jail for not being able to correctly ID specific individuals who gang raped them. Many MANY victims of violent crimes cannot give a positive ID of the criminal because it's a traumatic chaotic event. Add in that some rapists wear condoms to prevent DNA evidence and to protect themselves from disease. A lack of DNA evidence is the norm in a rape case.

There are countries that routinely demonize rape victims. This shouldn't be one of them. She's a victim of a violent crime, likely with PTSD. Have some decency.

[defendandprotect]

95. Right . . . especially when they've likely been hit with drugged drinks . . . .

the only too popular way for males to get what they think of as "sex" --- !!!

Evidently, domination and violence in too much of the male mind is "sex" --- !!!

And, didn't this alleged victim also claim that they rinsed her mouth out?

And that an instrument was used to penetrate her anally?

As I've said before, this case will be with us a long, long time ---

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

148. The attorney general said they were innocent.

Do you have any idea how rare it is for an agent of the government to say that when they dismiss charges?

David

[benEzra]

99. I think rape is a terrible violation of one's personhood and the right to control one's own body.

When this first occurred, and all we were given was the MSM hysteria (which Nifong had carefully spoon-fed them), I was on her side 100%.

Then the case started to fall apart, and eventually the depth of Nifong's egregious misconduct became quite clear.

If the woman was indeed raped, it is quite clear from the DNA evidence that she was NOT raped by the men Nifong railroaded. Either she wasn't raped, or she was raped and Nifong decided not to go after the real rapists because he decided a priori that the lacrosse team must be guilty.

And his actions make you wonder, if those innocent men hadn't been wealthy and white, I suspect that the duplicity would have never been uncovered. Which makes me wonder how many innocent people are in prison and how many rapists are running free due to the same type of prosecutorial misconduct by him and others in the past.

[noamnety]

101. You are incorrect in your conclusions.

A lack of DNA evidence cannot, by definition, prove that she was not raped by a particular person - and especially it cannot prove she wasn't raped with an object. It's notoriously difficult to get an accurate DNA sample from a broomstick.

[LisaL]

116. It's too bad AG Cooper decided not to prosecute her.

Really.

[philosophie_en_rose]

108. Exactly.

I'm really surprised at how quick some people are to jump on the victim for the prosecutor's choices.

[LisaL]

119. I almost feel sorry for Nifong. I bet he imagined himself

a sort of knight in shining armor, coming to defense of this "victim."

[philosophie_en_rose]

124. I don't feel sorry for him at all.

He's attorney with professional obligations. I don't care about his motivation. From a professional perspective, there is no way to know whether anyone is a "victim" or not. Thus, it's professional to treat everyone as if they're a victim and give them some respect, while at the same time actually doing your job and basing your professional decisions on the evidence.

I feel sorry for you.

[defendandprotect]

93. Nifong didn't cover up anything . . . the info was made clear ---

and I would suggest that twisting this info to suggest that he falsified evidence or

didn't produce evidence would cause me to question how much of all this is simply a

cover-up . . .

I've never seen a prosecutor so frightened . . . !!!!

[LisaL]

111. So, in your universe, he went to jail and was disbarred for

doing nothing wrong? O'key.
:eyes:

[Dr. Strange]

118. Leave Nifong alone!

It turns out there is a group called “Justice for Mike Nifong”, whose motto is “Equal justice for all in North Carolina begins with justice for Mike Nifong!” But their existence seems to be more dedicated to keeping the art of irony alive: they think he should get his law license back.

http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2008/08/thirty-six-questions.html

[defendandprotect]

136. Since when is a Prosecutor wrong for bringing charges ....?

All of the evidence was made clear --- however, those facts have been twisted ---

and Nifong and the victim have been under heavy attack ---

the victim becomes the "perpetrator" . . . !

Again -- one day we may know the truth about what actually happened that night ---

so far, IMO, we don't ---

[LisaL]

113. Oh give it up.

If anybody is not bothered with the facts, it's you.

[Dutch]

133. And apparently you don't want to be bothered by the pesky collapse of the case

and imprisonment of the prosecutor.

[noamnety]

134. The prosecutor's actions are all his own.

He gets to own that all himself.

I don't demonize rape victims because their prosecutor was corrupt.

[onenote]

98. link to evidence she was raped

the evidence was that she had sex. With someone (or someones) other than the dukies.

[defendandprotect]

137. NO . . . the evidence from the examination was that she was RAPED . . . .

[onenote]

150. and where is that link?

The SANE exam showed evidence of sexual activity that could have been forced but also could have been the product of consensual sex.

Here is a link to what the final report on the Duke case had to say about the rape exam results:


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0427071duke20.html

[defendandprotect]

152. The world owes you a LINK . . .??? Look it up ---

The hospital records indicate that she was RAPED . . .

Re your info . . .

"could have been forced" seems indictative of RAPE ---

tho we'll probably now see something posted on rough sex and how she probably enjoys that!

This woman entered that house in normal condition --- not incoherent, not unable to

stand on her own two feet.

She exited the building -- with pictures being taken of her --- in an obviously comitose

condition!

Suggesting that she was drugged while she was there ---

[onenote]

154. i posted a link, which is more than you have.

Again, the medical evidence was consistent with consensual sex. Sorry if that doesn't fit your version of reality, but it doesn't make it any less real.

[defendandprotect]

155. According to the info you supplied "could have been forced" . . .

Re your info . . .

"could have been forced" clearly suggests RAPE --

and is quite a different reality than you're pushing --- !!!!


Again, the official hospital records indicate that she was raped ---

that her injuries were consistent with rape ---


I haven't looked into this issue in a long time, but there's an excellent site

which keeps all the records --- if I can recall what it is I'll shoot you a link.

Let's also keep this in mind . . .

The team was notorious for its gross behavior. 15 of the 47 players had been previously charged with misdemeanors ranging from underage drinking to public urination. After the party one player sent out an email saying that he planned on inviting strippers over and then “killing the b…. as soon as they walk in and proceeding to cut their skin off,” an act he said would be sexually satisfying.

Legal representation which defended Bill Clinton and the Catholic Church was called in to
defend the university --- !!!


Meanwhile . . .

Here's an interesting thread on the case ---
info there I've never read before ---

that it took two days for the police to search the scene of the crime

Guess a bit of evidence could have been lost or rearranged in those two days-- !!!

Admitted to a hospital, tests showed injuries consistent with rape and physical assault.

I think we have to keep REPEATING that over and again ---

Admitted to a hospital, tests showed injuries consistent with rape and physical assault.



And as I've mentioned before ROLLING STONE had an article ---
based on interviews with students at Duke --
I'll see if I can locate that for you tho I actually read it in the magainze . . .
so I'm not sure if it was on line.

http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/2006/04/duke-rape-scandal-disbelieving-women.html

[defendandprotect]

156. dupe

[defendandprotect]

157. Here's the ROLLING STONE article . . .

This is an interesting article in showing the environment set by

males at Duke --- and the male attitudes and treatment of females there --

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10464110/sex__scandal_at_duke/1


Here's another article interesting as told by other "dancers" and that many

of them came with their own bodyguards . . .

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10464110/sex__scandal_at_duke/1

[onenote]

161. i remember that article and it doesn't offer any proof that a rape occurred

BTW, you posted the same article twice. In any event, that article establishes that there are many male and female students at Duke that have a casual, and not particularly healthy, attitude towards sex. That also happens to be the case at many universities. When Tom Wolfe wrote I am Charlotte Simmons, he researched it not only by talking to Dukies, but also by talking to students at a number of other schools, including U of FL, U of Michigan, UNC, etc.

[defendandprotect]

79. As I've said many times here . . . this will be another Tawana Brawley case . . .

and one day we may know the truth of both ---

In the Brawley case, there has been a suicide ---

and, whatever did happen at this frat house there are many potential witnesses

who may one day decide to open up ---

[tammywammy]

64. They should sue for all proceeds from the book

[Mike Daniels]

70. There's a bunch of DU'ers who have already placed their advance orders

They're the equivalent of the FReeps who buy every Ann Coulter book despite the fact that there's not likely to be an ounce of truth in either publication.

[laureloak]

74. No thanks to the book. I'll have a Duke Lacrosse shirt instead. n/t

[philosophie_en_rose]

102. How do you know she lied? She's not responsible for the prosecutor.

After a traumatic event, she might not have remembered accurately or she might have been confused. It wasn't her job to judge the evidence. All she could do is report what she could remember. Maybe the people that raped her appeared to be associated with the lacross team. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she has a mental health condition.

It's law enforcement's job to investigate and collect evidence. It's the prosecutor's job to weigh the evidence and proceed with charges. If they fucked up and made unprofessional prosecutions, it's on them.

There are victims that are afraid to come forward, because it is disgustingly difficult to be examined, interrogated, and judged. If these guys are innocent and the evidence couldn't support charging them, you need to keep in mind that the victim isn't responsible for what the prosecution chose to do. If the prosecutor is in jail, it doesn't reflect upon her. Just like a defense attorney that went to jail would not reflect upon the guilt of his or her client. It is stupid to conflate the two.

[AZ Criminal JD]

106. Making excuses for a pathological liar

She made the exact same claim in 1993 when she accused three white men of raping her. The police asked her for information and she never returned. I know you will have some excuses for that episode too.

[philosophie_en_rose]

107. I don't know what happened and neither do you.

I don't know what happened in 1993. I wasn't there. All you know is that she made a report and then decided not to go any further. That doesn't mean she's a pathological liar.

Seriously, I don't know what happened and neither do you. You conveniently ignore the facts about criminal investigation and the role of the prosecutor, just to feel good about hating a woman you don't even know for daring to report that something happened to her. Again, it's the criminal justice system's job to gather evidence and to determine whether to press charges. If they fuck up, it's on them.

You are seriously disturbed.

[LisaL]

112. You have to report something that happened to you.

[philosophie_en_rose]

114. You should be able to make a report.

Not everyone can.

[LisaL]

115. You should be able to make a report about something

that actually took place.

[philosophie_en_rose]

120. How do you know what happened?

The accused men could be innocent and she could also have been telling what she thought was the truth. A good investigation would have resolved the criminal aspect.

Anyone could be lying to the police, but I'm not going to assume that they are. If you were a witness, perhaps you should have contacted the defense attorney to offer your testimony.

This thread demonstrates why victims don't make reports. If a person is assaulted and unable to walk in to the police department with DNA samples, a videotape, and twelve witnesses, she or he is branded a liar or crazy or a whore.

[LisaL]

121. Oh she had quite a few DNA samples.

Just not from lacrosse players, that's all. There were actually video and photos of the party. Don't show any rape. And she was with another stripper. Not by herself. Honestly, I don't feel the need to debate the facts over and over again.

[philosophie_en_rose]

126. You still don't know what happened.

You don't have to debate, as I'm not interested in reading your opinions. As I said, it's possible that she didn't make it all up. She could have been confused or drugged or unwell. Even if it didn't happen the way she thought it did, it doesn't mean she intentionally fabricated anything. I'm not saying that everything she's said is true and none of us have access to all of the evidence. I don't know that either. However, I'm not willing to go on a witch hunt.

Obviously, people base their opinions on what they see. I don't blame you for thinking the rape didn't happen, but you don't seem to have the capacity to understand that it might not be a matter of absolutes. Again, she could have been absolutely mistaken about what happened, yet not have intentionally reported misinformation.

And she's still not responsible for what the prosecution does. If there was misconduct, it could have been in any case.

[defendandprotect]

138. Correct . . .. we have no idea what actually happened . . .

As you point out -- and as we've seen so many times before --- DRUGS IN DRINKS

are used when a rape is planned, especially when there is a group involved.

Meanwhile, re the DNA, didn't she say that they had rinsed her mouth out?

Wasn't there also anal penetration with an instrument of some kind?

That certainly doesn't leave DNA --- but it's rape nonetheless!


And, again, I think the "misconduct" by the prosecutor was a frame-up, a farce . . .

but time will tell, let's hope!

[Kitty Herder]

105. It makes me livid when people lie about rape. It's hard enough for victims to get justice without

the perception among the ignorant that because one woman lied about rape, all rape victims lie.
I don't know for certain that she lied, but that seems to be the case.

[defendandprotect]

139. What proof do you have that this victim lied?

No one knows what actually happened that night ---

this young woman certainly ARRIVED at the house in quite coherent condition that evening

as witnessed by a neighbor watching her thru his window. She was certainly not drunk nor

falling over herself, nor incoherent!


But -- just coincidently -- we have pictures of her leaving in quite different incoherent

condition! How often do the frat boys take photos of guests leaving?


It seems quite evident that this woman was drugged while she was on the premises --

do we think she did that to herself?

As far as DNA, as I recall it the victim also said that her mouth had been washed out by

those attacking her. There was also an attack on her with a tool used to penetrate her

anally?


Again, there is no proof that this woman is lying ---

in fact, HOSPITAL RECORDS BASED ON HER EXAMINATION SAY SHE WAS RAPED ---


Meanwhile . . . . "men tell a thousand lies . . . " -- let's consider that for a bit in

this saga ---

[onenote]

151. Have you read the full report on the case? She changed her story repeatedly

Her various statements could not have all been true. Maybe she thought they were. Maybe she was confused. But the physical evidence, including photographs, medical evidence etc. indicates that her statements were not truthful. Does that make her a "liar"? Most people would say so. But even if she's given the benefit of the doubt -- i.e., if we accept the premise that she honestly believed each of her different statements -- that doesn't mean we don't have a good idea of what happened, or at least of what didn't happen. And what we know didn't happen is what she claims did happen.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0427071duke1.html

[IndianaGreen]

122. What a seriously disturbed woman Ms Mangum has turned out to be!

She could be sued for civil damages by her victims. Her book earnings can be used to cover the expenses of those she falsely accused.

[defendandprotect]

140. Not unusual to see the victim's "sanity" questioned . . . .

what's new?

Despite the attempts to turn the tables, this woman is still the "victim" in the case ---

and hospital records of her examination indicate that she was RAPED.

This young woman arrived at the house in coherent condition as testified to by a witness

watching thru his window. She left in a DRUGGED state --- while coincidently pictures

were being taken of her exiting!!!

She also left under noisy circumstances with racial comments being made by individuals in

the frat house ---


One day we may hear the truth of what actually happened inside that house --- there are

a lot of witnesses who may one day tell us ---

[IndianaGreen]

143. I'll bet you also believe that Jesus rose from the dead!

Nothing like believing in a debunked myth!

[defendandprotect]

145. Nothing like avoiding the subject . . . .

[anonymous171]

123. Its not totally her fault. The prosecutor was a total incompetent asshole.

[LisaL]

125. Well, at least he had paid. He's lost his job, he was

disbarred, he even spend a day in jail. Meanwhile, she is writing a book.

[defendandprotect]

141. These were trumped up charges against Nifong --

I've never seen a prosecutor so FRIGHTENED . . . !!!!

And, of course, the victim had long been under threats to her life!!!

Nifong made all of the evidence available and clear ---

[Dr. Strange]

164. Of course he was frightened! He got caught!

The charges were hardly "trumped up." Unlike the bullshit charges Nifong brought, they were well-documented. If you're really interested in them, you can take a look yourself:
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/duke/ncbnifong12407cmp.html

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluestateguy]

132. Someone who is handed a book contract can't fight back?

Wow, that's fascinating logic. How many Americans are given a book contract to tell their story to the world?

[defendandprotect]

142. "Handed" . . . . ? I think it is clear that many of us would like to hear what she has to say . . .

if there was no interest in this case --- and in what her life has been since ---

there would be no book.

[aikoaiko]

130. At first I reacted very negatively about this book, but if she tells the truth

about her actions and statements, Nifong's and the partygoers, then some good may come of it.

[LisaL]

144. What's she gonna say?

AG Cooper implied that the reason for not prosecuting her is that she believes the stories she tells. I mean, really.

[aikoaiko]

149. She might admit to lying or being prompted to lie by police or the DA.

She might explain her lies or how things got out hand.

Its unlikely she'll say anything worthwhile, but I'm a slut for juciy stories.

[defendandprotect]

153. She might explain that she was telling the truth and suffered death threats . . . which did happen!

This woman arrived at the frat house in normal condition --- on her own two feet ---

and coherent --- according to a witness watching from across the street . . .

She left in a DRUGGED condition, unable to stand -- and incoherent ---

while pictures were being taken of her "exit" ---

and racial comments were being spewed upon the two women!!!

But . . . of course, nothing happened that night --- !!!


She might admit to lying or being prompted to lie by police or the DA.

She might explain her lies or how things got out hand.

Its unlikely she'll say anything worthwhile, but I'm a slut for juciy stories.

[aikoaiko]

163. Oh we know something happened, and it will be interesting to hear her side of the story.

Of course some of the things I suggested she might write about in her book and the things you suggested are not incompatible.

[onenote]

166. Fact check

"This woman arrived at the frat house in normal condition --- on her own two feet ---"

Per the NC AG's report, she was "unsteady" from the time she first arrived at the party:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0427071duke5.html

[defendandprotect]

167. This is untrue . . .the neighbor from across the street witnessed her arrival . . .

and observed her for a while outside the building before they entered --

Not only did she exit in a drugged condition, she exited with people taking photos

of her . . . coincidentally, timed photos.

[LisaL]

168. Hello? All digital cameras will produce timed photos.

There is also a video of her in the yard.
By the way, even for her interview with the investigators, after AG Cooper took over the case, this woman arrived with un-steady gate and slurred speech.

[defendandprotect]

169. Re cameras . . . yes -- and the "time" can be changed . . .

Yes, the cameras do have the "time" on them ---

And the "time" can be changed if one wishes ---


and do we suppose that these college kids took photos of everyone leaving their

parties so they'd "know the time" and their condition???


Keep in mind that on existing she was incoherent and unable to stand ---

I don't think that's how she arrived for her interview with Cooper?



But we are discussing the night of the incident ---

not something that happened much later ---

and the witness across the street --- the neighbor -- said that she was in normal

condition --

[Selatius]

170. Well, either the North Carolina Attorney General's report is wrong, or the witness was mistaken.

Given the conflicting accounts between the AG and this particular witness, I would say one of them is wrong or mistaken, but I won't guess which.

[LisaL]

171. Just give it up;

All of this has been investigated already. AG Cooper took over the case and as I recall spend months re-investigating it. The accused were declared innocent, and no rape took place. Which was pretty obvious even before Cooper took over the case. Arguing over and over about it is not going to change the outcome.
Cooper apparently even considered prosecuting the woman but decided against it, implying she believes some of the stories she tells. Regarding her condition, she herself at times admitted drinking the day of the party. AG Cooper's investigators first hand observed her condition, with slurred speech and unsteady gait, when she showed up for an interview. His report also lists the medications she was on.
So there.

[onenote]

172. oooh..timed photos

Like the one's that most digital cameras automatically take. What a conspiracy!! Its their fault that they didn't borrow grandpa's instamatic camera.

She has admitted she had been drinking and taking prescription drugs before she arrived. She also admits that she was dizzy when she started dancing. The NC AG's report is quite thorough, both in its methodology and its conclusions.

BTW - do you have a link to the witness (Jason Bissey) claiming she was steady when she arrived?

[CreekDog]

160. remember the good old days when we hated each other over this topic?

:rofl:

[Suji to Seoul]

162. Hmmm. . .I seem to be out of tiolet paper.

Her books should come in handy when it's in the $.99 bin.