Credit so bad, you can't rent an apartment

[Occulus]

What the fuck is wrong with landlords?

My best friend and roommate of ten years might be homeless next week. We have to move; someone called in a false drug trafficking tip on me and my roommate, our current landlord panicked, and evicted us. We have until *a week from Friday* to leave.

No arrests were made and no charges have been filed. Yes, I got a lawyer- to the tune of a $7500 bank loan- and he's done us no good that I can discern.

In any case, I've been accepted as a tenant in a new place, but my roommate's credit is (and has been since his divorce) completely shot. They're thinking about rejecting his application to be on the lease, even though I make $50K+ a year, and can easily afford the rent for a two-bedroom place on my own. If they reject him, he can't live there, even though I can pay rent on my own. If the three-day-in-writing-turned-ten-day-long application doesn't go through for him, my best friend, the only person I can trust (including my own family), will be homeless, strictly and for no other reason than his credit score.

His credit score! And he's NOT applying for a loan- this is a roof over his head we're talking about!

This has to end. Somehow. Personally, I don't think landlords should be able to examine credit scores at all, since there's not necessarily a connection between a person's credit score and their ability to pay rent. A credit score could have been forever ruined years ago (the seven year rule be damned; we all know there's no practical truth to that)- where can such a person live?

Should I just drop him from the application and clandestinely move him in with me? THAT sets me up for being evicted when the landlord finds out he's living there. But I just cannot, I CANNOT, leave my very best friend homeless.

I guess I need some advice. The place we want to move into has dicked us around for multiples of the length of time they put in writing as being the application process. Rental applications cost cash- $20 to $25 each- and I just don't have a couple hundred extra bucks lying around to fork over, just to be told "no, sorry, you both can't live here".

Why are landlords so willing to contribute to the homeless population, anyway? Why can they? Since when is a person's credit rating connected to their ability to pay rent?

In ten years living together, we have never once been late paying rent. Tis is the first time we've been evicted, and it happened because someone called in a false anon tip to our area's drug enforcement team specifically to get us evicted.

This is wrong on so many levels, and I have very little time to deal with it. I already called the management company and left a message basically- without sayin so- begging them to accept his rental application. But- I should not have to do this!

I can pay the rent AND the bills, on my own. HE has disability income. WHY is his credit score any issue at all?

Landlords? Care to comment?

[flamingdem]

1. Does your state recognize domestic partnerships? nt

[Occulus]

4. We live in MI. n/t

[flamingdem]

14. You can google it and any notary can do a signed statement for you nt

[Occulus]

16. Not in MI n/t

[flamingdem]

22. bummer, good luck on that nt

[WilliamPitt]

2. Tell him to get a co-signer.

If possible.

[Occulus]

6. That's something I thought of

I'll mention it to him. It would be strictly a formality, because as I said, I can cover rent on my own.

[Occulus]

64. I should add:

We already paid the security deposit, and they gave us a receipt with a move-in date.

[unblock]

103. i would think then that he's already accepted you

and could only get rid of you via eviction proceedings, which no landlord wants to do if the tenant is actually paying.

[ikojo]

3. A friend in supposedly liberal Minneapolis is going through the

exact same thing. A friend of hers has credit problems and even though she can afford the rent on her own and has offered to sign the lease, she cannot find him a place so that he can live on his own. Right now he is effectively homeless except for the fact my friend lets him sleep at her place whenever her roommate agrees to it.

That sucks.

Unfortunately since landlords are property owners they have far more rights than do renters.

[Freddie Stubbs]

158. Landlords and renters both have rights

Landlords can be choosy about who they lease to and renters can be choosy as to whom they rent from.

[Dorian Gray]

Especially

since once someone is a tenant, it can be really tricky evicting them, sometimes taking months and months to do so.

[Merlot]

5. I would not leave. You'll have an eviction on your credit record.

Although I agree with your point, the truth is your credit does matter.

I don't know what state you're in, and I realize you've got a lawyer, but can they really evict you without even giving a 30 day notice?

I'd fight harder, don't depend on the lawyer.

Good luck

[Occulus]

8. We've already agreed to it in a pretrial conference.

We never had trouble finding a place until now. That's four or five different landlords, BTW.

I called the management company, and I think I might go to their office tomorrow to make an appeal in person.

This is just wrong.

[Dorian Gray]

166. Is it possible

that the landlord is using the credit score as an excuse because he's heard about the drug trafficking charges? I might be nervous about that too, even if completely unfounded.

[LeftyMom]

7. Is it with a management company?

Management companies often have policies which require inflexibility on rental qualifications- this isn't to be dicks, it's to protect themselves from discrimination charges from rejected applicants.

Individual landlords can be more flexible (more likely to take a larger deposit in lieu of a credit check or actually just trust you if you seem cool,) though service can be more variable with them as well.

[Neecy]

25. I agree with this

Management companies won't budge an inch for you. I doubt they'd even take a co-signer.

I'd try to find a small house being rented by the owner. They'd be more likely to work with you - perhaps a bigger deposit, perhaps they'd accept your credit and be done with it.

[Occulus]

28. That's the thing

It's not MY credit or income that's an issue. *I* can pay for the rent on my own, and they know it. I just can't let my best friend go homeless. It would be heartless.

Being ABLE to pay the rent is not an issue.

[trof]

9. So why can't you rent the place on your own?

And charge him rent as your roomie?
I don't understand.

[Occulus]

11. I can, but if I do what you're saying,

he's not on the lease, and he's living there, so I get evicted for breaking the lease if and when they find out he's living there.

I've been renting in this town for more than ten years; I know how landlords here work.

[LeftyMom]

13. Are you near a college?

Go rent a place near one in your name only. The management will have neither the time, capability or interest to keep track of the comings and goings of various roommates, live in partners, etc, unless they create problems.

[Occulus]

15. College town, "college" complex

That's the part I truly don't understand. Most of their residents are students with little/no credit.

A co-signer, as suggested above, seems to me to be the best bet.

[trof]

24. So you can't rent a place and have a roomie not on the lease?

I guess things have changed a lot since my bachelor days.
Sorry, man.
:-(

[Occulus]

26. Nope, that's grounds for eviction in every lease I've been under

going back to 1994.

[trof]

27. Wow. Bummer.

My bachelor days ended in 1969.

[romulusnr]

55. ime

most landlords don't actually give a fuck, they don't have the time to check up on that kind of stuff

hell at my old apts, my neighbor's ex-hub moved in and lived with them for a year in violation of the lease terms, no one gave a damn, he was home all day.

It may be dishonest but it's one of those things where the apartment management agencies want to CYA... if you were to get an apt for yourself in your name only then have your roomie move in they probably would not say a thing... plausible deniability or whatever.

[Occulus]

60. And that would work if we hadn't applied jointly in the first place

Oh, I'm sure neither they nor the residents would care at all, but the possibility of getting evicted in the middle of the winter is just a horrifying thought. Given he'll have to have mail coming there.... well.

I want to do this by the book, but it's looking more and more as though that won't be possible.

[romulusnr]

164. right

it wont work at anywhere you're currently applied to, but if you apply anywhere else, just do it as yourself.

as for mail get him a PO box.

Or, try finding an apartment or place that is rented more casually.

[Dorian Gray]

167. That's the case here in NYC

I believe, but almost everyone ignores it and subleases their apartments.

I think that, as a general rule, as long as one person is on the lease who lives in the apt., the landlords ignore the issue. Unless there is a huge problem and they need to evict the tenants.

[grasswire]

10. I wouldn't want to live in a place...

...where the landlord was dicking around and demanding so much. Perhaps it is some kind of bigotry at work. (I inferred some things from the post, but I don't know anything about your circumstances.) If your roomie were your wife, would they treat the two of you the same way? I would file a discrimination complaint with your local housing authority.

But for the short term, I personally would go to craigslist and find something else, even if it is a temporary situation while you keep looking. I sense that you're going to have trouble with this landlord even if you get in.

[Occulus]

12. We don't have time for that

We have to move out nine days from now.

[progressivebydesign]

48. Yes, all adults have to be screened when you deal with mgt companies.

All adults over the age of 18 have to have credit checks to rent through most management companies. The best bet is either the roommie finding an existing rental where they can get their own room for rent, or both of them finding a real landlord who owns their own place.

I tell my kids all the time... guard your credit with your life, it sucks.. but everything is determined by that credit score now.

[grasswire]

56. that's why I would never deal with a management company..

...and will always do everything in my power to stay out of that "caste" system forced onto today's Americans by bankers, lenders, and middlemen -- driven by greed.


I'm sorry. "Guard your credit with your life" is the code of a serf. I would guard my liberty with my life, and I would urge my children to be as free of contact with "the system" as they can be.

[glitch]

105. hear hear. nt

[bbgrunt]

17. my, how things have changed. I had no idea

that this kind of thing was required for renters. I thought the reason why people were required to pay large security deposits was to provide a check on both payment of rent and care of the property.

With so much going on in the housing market, there may be more rentals opening up--depending on your local market. Good luck.

(btw, maybe you should just list him as a dependent and simply take the lease in your own name allowing him to pay his share)

[Occulus]

19. They won't allow that

They told me not an hour ago that if he's not allowed on the lease, he's not allowed to live there. I doubt making him my dependent would make any difference, and I don't think that's even legal in the first place.

:(

I'm to the point I'm willing to go to their offices and literally beg in person.

[flvegan]

18. Do they have a "No Sublet Clause"?

If not, you *could* then sublease the place to you and your roomie.

[Occulus]

21. Every landlord I've rented from in this town, and this area, has a no-sublet clause.

That's not to say people don't do it, but I've been renting here for over a decade and I've never heard of a landlord here allowing subleases.

[justinboston2008]

20. Couple ideas

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Here are a couple ideas that might help.

1) Have you fought your eviction?? Tenants have a lot of rights when it comes to eviction. This anonymous tip issue seems fishy. If you did nothing wrong, you should fight your eviction. The landlord needs to have a legal reason to evict you. Not paying your rent is one. An anonymous tip is not a valid reason. Especially if there were no charges filed.

2) If your roommate is having issues getting approved on the credit score, talk to the landlord and see if there is anyway to negotiate on this. A lot of times having a discussion regarding the potential objections will help resolve them. If your credit score is good, can you cosign for your friend? Can someone else cosign for him?

The credit score is misused in many situations. Jobs or apartments should not be decided by this alone. It should be a factor. That said, as a landlord, it is tough to judge whether someone is going to be a good tenant. When your financial stability relies on the timely payment of rent, one can never be too careful. That said, I have taken chances with folks on the credit score if they have good references and stable employment. The key here is negotiation and open communication. I would be using the 7500 bank loan to fight my eviction if there are no charges to fight.

Best of luck to you.

[Occulus]

23. Answers

1) We tried. The lawyer said that fighting the eviction could prompt the prosecutor to file some charge or other, even if it's bullshit, to pressure us to leave. That's SOP in this town. They gave our landlord a letter mentioning 'asset forfeiture', and he panicked. Again, this is SOP for these creeps.

2) It's a corporation that runs the place. No negotiation is possible. I might try tomorrow morning, because their offices are close by, but I sincerely doubt I'll get anywhere.

Your final paragraph: THEY KNOW I could pay the rent on my own. They've seen my pay stubs. I work for USPS, full-time, as a regular, not a casual or a part-timer. Money, quite clearly, is NOT the issue here. Perversely, I can't cosign for him, since I'm an applicant.

It feels like they just don't want low-credit tenants. That smacks of rather blatant housing discrimination. And again- what of their student tenants, who are 18-19-20 years old, and don't HAVE established credit?

[justinboston2008]

29. Well...

I would go and speak with the office and see what they tell you. I would also look for other housing options and not keep all your eggs in one basket. You may have better luck with a private landlord than with a corporation. Corporations tend to be much more rigid in their standards as to not open themselves to liability of discrimination lawsuits. Go there and see what you can do to negotiate with them. This will be your best bet.

Best of luck

[Occulus]

31. There's no time!

I have nine days to find a place. NINE. DAYS. The only reason I have so little time is because their application said THREE days for approval. it's been an extra week starting tomorrow, and literally EVERY landlord in the area has a $20 nonrefundable application fee!

So, I (stupidly) trusted something a corporation put in writing. Silly me. Can I hold them liable for that? I don't know; I'll have to talk to my lawyer. I doubt it.

BUT! *His* credit, given MY income and MY credit, shouldn't be an issue. They know I can pay for the two-bedroom unit on my own, without him. Sure, I might have to cut cable TV out of the loop- I almost never watch TV anyway- but I can manage it on my own. But HE can't manage even a STUDIO apartment by himself!

This apartment complex has college students just out of high school as tenants. How is it NOT discrimination to deny him housing- particularly when his roommate (me) has the financial resources to pay for everything?

I think something else is going on. We've never run into this problem before, over several landlords (including corporate-owned and operated places) and several years.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

39. Can the lawyer get you an extension of time to find a place?

Your roomie is disabled? He should be given more time to find a suitable place.

Like others have said, try looking for a place not managed by a management co. Besides craiglist, etc walk/drive around and look for For Rent signs. In my town there are lots of those and they are not listed in the newspaper.

Once you get thru this crisis, you may want to think about buying a place of your own - so that you never have to be at the mercy of the landlord again. Look into a condo or even a 2 family house that will provide some income. I know the loan market has tightened, but you have a good job and should be able to get financing.

Good luck ! We're all pulling for you.

[Occulus]

43. My ability to put down a downpayment on a house

went to pay for the lawyer. :( That erased every financial gain I've made in the past eight years.

The place we're in now is owned by a private landlord, and look at what happened. Never again. I want to live in a place where people just don't care how many friends you have over, or when, or what hours you work.

That would be a college apartment complex or a house, and I can't afford a house.

[wellstone dem]

30. Welcome to the world of the poor.

This is routine. I work with the poor. Many of my clients get turned down for housing, even though they have a perfect housing record, because they have a record of other unpaid bills. It's not fair. But it's not illegal.

Maybe you can cosign for your friend.

Depending on the housing market, losing you as a tenant may make them rethink their decision.

[Occulus]

32. If you're not willing to take someone who makes $50K a year, and his roommate,

based on his roommate's credit, you deserve the worst publicity possible.

And, landlord credit checks SHOULD be illegal. There is not necessarily a connection between bad credit and ability to pay rent; the one does not equal the other. Things unrelated to housing can cause bad credit; as such, landlords should not be able to consider credit ratings in the first place.

[wellstone dem]

72. I absolutely agree.

and if you make $15,000 a year and have always paid your rent, the rest of your credit history is irrelevant.

[Odin2005]

33. This is how the Rich keep us "little people" in "our place."

The system is such that if you have fallen they make it impossible to get back up.

[Occulus]

37. Up until now I've been helping to keep that from happening to him.

What I don't understand is why MY income and credit isn't sufficient to cover HIM. It's not as if I can't pay the rent without him. I can.

I'm NOT willing to make my best friend part of the homeless population in this town.

He "fell" because his ex-wife wanted him gone from her life. I won't go into how it happened- that's a separate flame war in and of itself- but suffice to say that what happened to him is scary as hell, and I'm the only one willing to try to mitigate the damage.

But I feel like I've played my last card. I don't know what to do. I can't bear the thought of cutting my best friend loose to let the wind blow him where it will. I wouldn't be able to live with myself- and he very well might suicide if that happens. He's that unbalanced- because of the divorce and everything that happened at that time.

I might write another thread about his situation after this is all over with, one way or another. The sick part is- I'm NOT worried about myself. I can handle getting a new place; most landlords would kill to have me as a tenant. Unlike many renters, I have job security, I have no criminal record, and I have good credit. That's not necessarily true for all tenants, but THEY still get to have a place to live.

I'm running out of options. A cosigner for him might work, if they accept it. I'll know tomorrow.

[progressivebydesign]

52. Honestly? It sounds as if you're enabling your friend.

Going through all of this on your own because you're afraid your friend will commit suicide if he has to find his own place to live, makes me think that you're moving into codependent stuff. It is really great that you're such a supportive friend.. truly, but you cannot be responsible for someone else's life (it's another thing if it's your child.)

Your friend can find a place to rent, a room, on his own. Have him look at Craigslist for something. Does he have family? If he's not financially sound, can he move where he has a family member to live with?

The point is that you seem like a very nice person, but I'm reading that you're tying yourself up in knots to keep your friend from killing himself if you don't find a way to make HIS credit problems a non-issue. Once you get the housing situation solved, then I hope you encourage him to get free counseling -- it's a red flag that he'd be suicidal if you weren't able to give him a place to live. I hope you can step back a few feet and look at this with different eyes. Has your friend tried on his own to find a place that he can rent?

[Naturyl]

70. He's disabled...

And I have a feeling I know what that means. I mean no offense to the person in question, because I'm disabled myself and the disability is of the same nature as what I suspect we may be talking about here. And based on that, I can tell you that no matter how trendy and "common-sensical" the Dr. Phil-esque terms we couch it in may sound, kicking this person to the curb is probably NOT going to have positive consequences.

Many pop-psychology approaches these days are little more than the selling of rationalizations intended to help us jettison "inconvenient" people from our lives without having to grapple with our conscience. With all due respect and without any rancor intended, that's what your post sounded like to me.

[Cronus Protagonist]

111. Then he's part of a protected class of people

He should apply for being on the lease and tell them in writing that he is disabled. The property owner will be shit scared to turn you both down, particularly if you tell them on your crappy lawyer's letterhead... might as well use him for SOMETHING useful :P

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/housing_coverage.htm

Discrimination in Housing Based Upon Disability

The Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in all types of housing transactions. The Act defines persons with a disability to mean those individuals with mental or physical impairments that substantially limit one or more major life activities. The term mental or physical impairment may include conditions such as blindness, hearing impairment, mobility impairment, HIV infection, mental retardation, alcoholism, drug addiction, chronic fatigue, learning disability, head injury, and mental illness. The term major life activity may include seeing, hearing, walking, breathing, performing manual tasks, caring for one's self, learning, speaking, or working. The Fair Housing Act also protects persons who have a record of such an impairment, or are regarded as having such an impairment.

[Occulus]

113. He did say that, and they just don't care a bit n/t

[mhatrw]

136. Looking out for = enabling

Go USA!

[Freddie Stubbs]

159. How does someone stay rich, if they won't rent out the apartment?

They simply want to make sure that they are not renting out to deadbeats. They don't make money if they cannot find responsible tenants.

[Imagine My Surprise]

34. When I had bad credit, this is what I did and it worked...

I paid two months EXTRA security deposit and he accepted.

[On the Road]

35. Without Going into Specifics

landlords are crazy NOT to check credit scores. I began five years ago only using proof of income and got royally burned. Now I check criminal background, eviction record, and credit score as well, and am thinking of asking for bank statements in addition. In some markets, over half the people have payment problems and it is a very serious issue.

Small landlords are frequently driven into bankruptcy by irresponsible tenants. As long as they don't discriminate on race, gender, etc, landlords should be able to protect themselves financially by screening.

Having said that, the best way to locate a rental that does not examine credit scores may be to find a small landlord rather than a large apartment complex. Those ads can often be found on Craigslist, apartments.com, and sometimes local papers. If the income is there, you have a better chance of explaining the circumstances -- you can even talk with them or their agent before spending money for the application. A large commercial place is bound by rules and the representatives may have no leeway.

Sometimes people with bad credit scores are good tenants, but it is the exception. I had a tenant who had declared bankruptcy, but she showed me the payment record from her credit score and she paid all her bills on time, and she was one of the minority who paid me on time. You can use past payment history as a reference.

The false charge might be another way to approach it. I am surprised the court agreed to evict him without evidence or any wrongdoing. You might check with a tenants' organization or sign up with prepaid legal services.

[Occulus]

40. You're part of the problem

Part of MY problem, actually. Your mentality.

Here, we have a tenant who is on Federal disability, and who had his credit ruined by a messy divorce. We also have his roommate, who makes $50+ a year, and can pay the full rent amount on his own.

This is, IMO, unjustified credit discrimination. There is no reason, none at all, to reject my roommate based upon HIS credit score when MY credit score AND INCOME are in fact higher than other tenants in the same complex- tenants they ACCEPTED.

How is their likely decision regarding my roommate in any way exposing them to liability when they have proof over and over again that *I* can handle the rent of the unit on my own?

He lives with me because he has no other options- because of the mentality YOU have.

How is that in any way right, or moral, or correct? If I have proven I can pay for the cost of the entire unit on my own, why, in the name of everything decent and true, is HIS credit an issue?

[Naturyl]

42. Thanks for speaking up.

I play the "bad guy" role enough on DU as it is, so I didn't want to say anything this time. But you're absolutely right - landlords like the poster you are responding to have a certain mentality that is NOT about fairness, compassion, or anything other than *the bottom line* and I don't care how anyone wants to spin it. That's the facts, Jack.

Oh, and BTW, your roommate's credit is an issue because the landlords are afraid he will wreck the place, steal, make too much noise, draw police attention, sell drugs, or something similar. His credit is bad and therefore he is a bad person. A unacceptable risk. Ability to pay is not the real issue and don't believe anybody who tries to tell you it is.

[SeattleGirl]

49. Absolutely correct.

If someone has proven they are a bad tenent; ie, not paid their rent, actually trashed a place, been kicked out of a place because they had a meth lab going or something, then yes, they ARE a bad tenant.

But if someone has a bad credit score, so what? There are MANY reasons people have bad credit scores, but that doesn't mean they would be a bad tenant.

Yeesh, that kind of attitude drives me nuts!

[Naturyl]

51. It's the statistical bottom-line "risk-management" attitude of people with money

Unfortunately, if you have money and you want to keep it, there's really no other way to look at things.

That's why, if one values their soul and their conscience, they would be well-advised to be very careful about acquiring money and property.

But hey, that's crazy talk, even on DU. I shall await castigation.

[SeattleGirl]

57. So, what you're saying, essentially, is that money and things are

more important than people?

Hey, I have no problem with people who have more money or toys than I do; that's just the way things are.

But I do have a problem when people put far more stock in those things than they do in their fellow human beings.

Guess I'm just one of those crazy bleeding heart liberals.

[Naturyl]

65. Am I saying that? Absolutely not.

Not sure if you're asking me, but my attitude would be the total opposite of "money over people." If, however, you're asking whether I think that is how most people with money think, then yep, I sure do.

Oh, they will deny it fiercely, but I'm not fooled. Some silly hippie once said "ye shall know them by their fruits" and I think he was spot-on about that.

[Occulus]

71. I'll pipe in here again:

I've already paid the deposit. They gave us a form showing the move-in date, and the date the lease begins.

IMO, they heard or learned something, and they're using my roommate's credit score as an excuse. Again, I have a move-in date in writing.

That's another reason I haven't bothered to look for another prospect. I thought this was solid, per what THEY put in WRITING.

The more I look at what's happened, the more I realize we're being dicked around into homelessness, and given my income, that makes me absolutely furious.

[Naturyl]

73. Yeah, "writing" isn't what it used to be...

I found that out when the signed, sealed, and delivered insurance contract I had for my home was canceled 3 days later due to a credit check.

Writing is only as strong as your ability to sue successfully (and for more than what they imagine they are saving by screwing you over). And in most cases like this, that means not very strong at all.

[Occulus]

81. I already have a lawyer.

:D

I hired him because of the anon tip; it cost me a LOT of cash I don't have (had to take out a loan), but given the history of our local drug-enforcement team, I felt I had to. They're known to fabricate evidence, leave evidence behind, act in an unprofessional manner, etc., and etc.

So, if they decide to deny my current roommate occupancy, I have:

Rental applications stating a three-day process. In writing.
A move-in date. In writing. For both of us.
A receipt of the security deposit. In writing. For both of us. (the form is unambiguous as to our move-in date and welcoming us as part of their rental community)

AND A LAWYER.

But we STILL have to be out of our current place within a week.

[Naturyl]

85. Good luck with your case, then.

Taking out a $7,500 loan to pay a lawyer is pretty drastic. Here's hoping you got someone who is worth a damn. Until then, however, the ugly reality is that you and/or your friend may be facing a period of homelessness. With so little time, the situation looks less than promising. I've been on the streets and it's not a pretty thing. You have my best wishes and if you want to discuss anything relating to homelessness privately, feel free to PM me.

[Occulus]

91. That's the issue

I can afford a place, on my own, at any time. I could get a place ready for immediate occupancy tomorrow, if I wanted to.

The issue is leaving my roommate in a ditch to sleep in. I WILL NOT DO THAT. I've been through it myself, at the hands of my own flesh and blood, and I WILL NOT let it happen again if I can avoid it.

I won't. I can't. I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

[Naturyl]

102. God bless you.

I'm an agnostic, but that's what I feel inspired to say by your commitment.

I've been put out by both friends and family as well. I know how it is. Your roommate has really found a gem in you - and don't let anybody put a "sucker" spin on that, ever. What you are doing isn't easy and it won't always be pleasant, as I'm sure you know. It will cost you in certain ways and some people will be quick to capitalize on that cost and use it as an opportunity to encourage you to think selfishly. But what you are doing is *right* and that still counts for plenty as far as some of us are concerned.

[On the Road]

148. If the New Landlord Signed a Contract

you really need to get a legal opinion on whether they can reneg on that agreement.

If you can't find a tenants' rights organization, call Prepaid Legal Services. It's $16 a month and is well worth it for your situation.

[progressivebydesign]

58. I don't think there is such thing as "credit" discrimination.

These jerky corporations, unfortunately, are well within their rights to use credit scores as a basis for allowing tenants. If he's disabled, then he does know that there are apartments in all cities and towns that have disabled/senior housing of some sort, that allows a fraction of your income as rent. Like 30%.. there are many resources for that. If he can find temporary digs until he gets something, that might work.

My Mom has lived in those apartments all over the country, and they set aside some for non-elderly disabled, and often the rent is like 280 bux a month for a nice little place. Has he looked into that?

[Occulus]

62. They won't take him

Felony on his record. The last time he checked, he wasn't eligible because of that.

That plays into the anon tip I mentioned, by the way. As I said, it's another thread, and I won't go into it here. Suffice to say, he committed a crime in his sleep, per the "victim".

[Pastiche423]

123. HUD housing

In most cities and towns across the country, it takes months, if not years to get an application approved for a Housing unit. Then if you are real lucky, it might take only a year or so to get off the waiting list. Hell, I'm still on a waiting list in five different counties in California. It's been twelve years.

In the last seven years, the funding for Federal Housing has been severely cut. Surprised?

[noamnety]

135. I feel for you

Personally, I am very grateful credit history is checked.

Ages ago, my ex had child support deducted from his paychecks and sent to friends of the court. At one point, the support stopped coming - just shut off. It turned out his employer was embezzling it - deducting it from his pay, his paychecks showed the deduction, but the employer was pocketing it.

I took him to court, I won the case, obviously, and got a judgment against him, but there was no way to force him to pay up. I gave up on the idea of ever seeing the support, and it sucked. I was a single mom, in debt, trying to work and pay the full cost of day care on that salary plus all the regular living expenses.

The employer ended up splitting up with his wife. When he tried to move out, nobody would rent to him because there was a judgment against him that showed up on the credit report. He contacted me and suddenly was begging to meet me and pay the full amount in a cashier's check so I could sign off that the debt was resolved.

[mhatrw]

138. Wow! One welfare king actually owed one poor individual money and the fact that

he was about to become homeless forced him to cough up the dough he owed that he was hoarding! That story really warms my heart!

[On the Road]

147. I Agree with You That You Should be Able to Sign a Lease

based on your own salary and credit score and have a roommate regardless of his credit history. The prospective landlords' behavior seems perverse to me.

But what your original post said was that credit history should not be a factor in screening for tenants. I cannot disagree more.

I suspect that you are a responsible person and pay your bills every month. You have no idea how many people do not that and try to abuse the system. Having controls is necessary. Doesn't mean they're always applied very well. Landlords are often jerks and sometimes act against their own best interests.

I tried to suggest some practical solutions and would be glad to discuss it further. You definitely need to call a tenants' rights association. I don't know what the laws are in Michigan, but there may be some protections you are not aware of. For example, if the landlord did not follow the full eviction procedure through court, there may be no policeman to enforce the eviction. That could allow you to hold over and buy some time that way and explore legal defenses. But you don't specify your town and it's important to find out the local laws.

There are also ways to find small landlords whose may have looser screening or who might consider your individual case as a good risk. I would have no problem with a tenant in your situation, and you may be able to find others. It's the big commercial companies that have strict inflexible guidelines.

[SeattleGirl]

41. Sorry, but I don't agree with you.

I think checking a prospective tenant's payment record from where they currently live, or even the place before that too, is a good way to tell if they are good at paying the rent. But checking their credit score should, frankly, be none of your business. You aren't loaning them money.

There are more and more people out there now who are running into financial problems, who are having to downsize, or file bankruptcy, not because they went out and bought tons of toys, but because they got laid off, or had huge medical bills, or something of that nature. That doesn't mean they're bad people, or irresponsible, or would be bad renters.

I understand that as a landlord, you most likely have run into bad renters. But as a renter myself, I really get annoyed with the hoops that so many landlords want us to jump through, because it's assumed that renters are bad people or something.

I've been renting the house I live in for 15 years, and treat it well, pay my rent on time, and am a responsible person. I cannot afford to buy a house; even if I could, I wouldn't right now, as housing prices in Seattle are still ridiculously high.

[On the Road]

157. Surprisingly,

checking a prospective tenant's rental history is probably the least reliable indicator.

What happens is that when tenants get behind on the rent, their landlords often give them good recommendations to get them out quickly and avoid lengthy eviction procedures. For small landlords, there is no indepedent verification. You have no idea how common this is. The last time I trusted a previous landlord's recommendation, I lost over $7,000. Should have paid more attention to the six uncollectible balances on the credit history. Will never do it again.

I don't doubt you're a responsible person. I understand your frustration with jumping through hoops and having your basic integrity questioned. I have had serious complaints myself about previous landlords. It is difficult to pass and enforce laws that treat tenants and landlords equitably.

Personally, I try to charge reasonable rates and take individual situations into accounts. But upfront screening for criminal history, previous evictions, and credit history is irreplaceable.

[romulusnr]

59. funny

cause it sounds to me like *you're* a small landlord, and *you're* checking, and arguing that it's a good thing to do.

Past rental payment records should trump credit check, even proof of income. Five years of on time rent payment ... ought to be e-bloody-nough for any landlord.

[Naturyl]

68. If it's not enough, then you know they aren't being truthful...

...about why they are checking. Very simple logical deduction, and one wouldn't have to be Aristotle to figure it out.

[On the Road]

156. No,

I am arguing that because I used to rely only on personal income and ability to pay, and only switched after bleeding money from tenants I should never have rented to. The reason landlords screen so carefully is that those who didn't were forced out of the business.

Look, I actually agree with some of the complaints of the original poster. I think he's being treated horribly and there should be some recourse both on the eviction end and on tenant screening. It does not follow that credit screening is illegitimate.

I have rented to tenants who have filed for bankruptcy and afterwards paid all their bills on time. I have rented to people with felonies on their record, including manslaughter, if the situation seemed to justify it. I would not knowingly rent to someone who did not pay their other bills or left large uncollectible balances with different vendors.

[Odin2005]

69. What is morally correct trumps "the bottom line."

As the other poster said, your amoral (OMG, what about the bottom line" attitude makes you part of the problem.

[Raskolnik]

163. That's pretty easy to say when its someone else's bottom line, isn't it?

[uncle ray]

99. credit history just isn't an accurate indicator of reliability.

partly because the same landlords who demand a credit check, DO NOT report to the credit agencies when you DO pay rent on time.

i have terrible credit myself, had some problems many years back that are long gone off my credit report, but since i've switched to cash only for all purchases since then, i have nothing to build credit with. i'm a renter and am sure to get written references from my landlords to make my case instead of the worthless credit report.

[mhatrw]

137. Come on. Can't you just post a three day notice whenever rent is overdue?

How many of your tenants relish getting evicted from your premises?

[Bluenorthwest]

150. What a load!

Let me translate this bit o' gold "Small landlords are frequently driven into bankruptcy by irresponsible tenants"....what you mean to say is that people who are using thier tenant's rent to buy a property they can not otherwise afford often lose that risky gambit when their unwitting, and financially non participatory, partner has a financial issue.
If you can not afford to actually own a property, you should not be renting it out. Some a-hole deeply in debt takes the title 'land LORD' and expects others to pay his mortgage, a mortgage he signed but can not afford? And he blames others for not paying up, instead of blaming himself for buying what he can not afford to cushion in case utter strangers might miss rent? Dig the irony-the tentant is not paying rent, and the 'small landlord' is also not paying their debt. You think the situation is different?
If you go bankrupt- listen to me here- if you go bankrupt from buying property you can not afford to pay for, it is your fault. Your fault.

[On the Road]

154. If I Went Bankrupt, It *Would* be My Fault

It would be my fault for not doing basic things like checking credit scores and not filing with eviction court whenever rent is overdue, and not having enough of a financial cushion to pay my own mortgages. I am just about breaking even, but if you doubt that otherwise responsible investors are going belly up, visit the bulletin board of any real estate investment club.

Thank you for calling me an a-hole. Your suggestion that landlords should only buy properties on which they can afford afford the mortgages without rental income is, shall we say, uninformed. Think about the implications of carrying out that suggestion.

[Naturyl]

36. This has aggravated me for a long time.

Rent is by no means an "optional" bill. Even the most "irresponsible" among us (by creditor and/or Repuke standards) can't just tear up the rent bill unless we want to be out on the street. There is little or NO connection between credit rating and ability to pay rent.

Then again, I don't believe for a minute that landlords are really afraid the rent won't be paid. On the contrary, what they *actually* think is that credit scores reflect a person's risk of being a criminal. The reason credit scores are checked for so many things, in my opinion, is that those doing the checking believe that bad credit means there is a risk there is going to be some kind of criminal act.

I had an insurance guy call me 3 days *after* a contract had been signed and sealed to tell me that he had forgotten to check my credit, and that when he did, he discovered he couldn't insure my home. I confronted him and refused to accept his bullshit excuses. He thought I was going to burn it down for the insurance money because my credit was bad (and I'm therefore a crook) - and I made sure he understood I knew that's why he canceled the deal. Asshole. I'd never take a swing at anybody over something like that - but I do hope *his own* ideas about people with bad credit caused him to sweat that possibility while I was there in the office. I can imagine he was pretty relieved when I left... lol.

Bad credit is NOT a crime - but try telling anybody that these days...

[SheilaT]

38. Well, you've talked to a lawyer

and presumably he knows his stuff. You can try researching landlord-tenant laws in Michigan and see if that helps you.

Landlords use credit scores because there is a connection between bad scores and not paying rent. And by being inflexible, they don't have to think and make exceptions to people like you.

Surely there are other apartment complexes in your town, or you can rent from a private home. Your eviction absolutely sucks, and you might want to see about fighting that. A false drug trafficking accusation ought not to be evictable, but perhaps your original lease has language to the effect that you can be asked to move out for any reason whatsoever. It's sort of like the fact that most of us are employees at will, and can be let go for any reason or for no reason, as long as no other federal or state law is violated. Evictions can be for any reason or for no reason and there's no recourse if they didn't violate some aspect of the landlord-tenant law in your state.

Good luck and best wishes.

[Occulus]

47. No, there is not necessarily a connection

A bad credit score does not necessarily mean you cannot pay the rent- and, AGAIN, my own income and credit score (not that it's relevant in any way) prove, beyond any doubt, that I CAN pay rent. And, again, in over ten years of renting apartments in this town, I have never- not once, EVER- been late.

My roommate contributes to the rent here, it is true, but the check comes out of MY bank account. I am a Federal employee, dammit- this should. not. be. an. issue.

Period.

So let me ask the clear-cut, get-rid-of-the-bullshit question: If I can afford to pay the full rental amount every month, and I can prove and have proven that, why is my roommate, who has additional disability income, being rejected based solely upon his credit score?

This does NOT make any sense. At all.

[TorchTheWitch]

126. I think your roomie's credit score is an excuse

After reading all the responses here and getting a better understanding of the issue, I think your roomie's credit score is the excuse the management company is using to not rent to either of you. I'm guessing they found out about the eviction from where you're currently living, and I don't know any management company that will accept a renter who has been previously evicted for any reason. If this complex is willing to take young college students and they aren't willing to take you, I seriously doubt it's the roomie's credit score that's the real issue.

As others have said, your best bet is probably to find an apartment or house with a single owner who you can negotiate with. As you've said, you have only days to move, so you need to find somewhere both of you can go, and I just see battling with this management company as a waste of precious time.

Best of luck to you both.

[dsc]

44. I just got an apartment a month ago so I know what you are saying

I wish I could offer you some great idea, but I don't have one. The best I can say is to see if you can find a cosigner for him. Maybe one of your relatives or something. I do wish you luck.

[Greyhound]

45. I've gone through this several times myself.

Sometimes my GF has bad credit, lately it's been me (bankruptcy), here's what I do;

1.) forget anyplace that uses a "professional management company", they have their policy and that's that. They couldn't care less if the apt. is leased, they get paid either way. For the same reason they also couldn't care less how long a tenant stays or what they do to the property, in fact, they make more money if the tenants move out fast and wreck the place.

2.) rent your house/apt. (houses are usually easier) directly from an owner. When you look at the place talk to the owners and be up front about the credit rating and offer to show them income, receipts, past recommendations, etc.
Make sure they understand that you really want to rent this place and are not planning on leaving anytime soon since you hate moving so much.
You have to "sell" them on what a great tenant you will be.

[progressivebydesign]

46. That's terrible. You should probably just move on without your roomie.

Sounds harsh.. but if you have to, you can either find a place to share, or get a place alone. YOur roomie is responsible for their own credit score.. but landlords have to run the info on all adults. Your only other option is to find a real old fashioned landlord who rents their own house out. Mgmt companies have policies like this because they've been burned before -- One mgmt company will allow a roomie with bad credit, but your deposit goes really high because of it.

Your roomie can find a place to share, no doubt, because people advertising for roommates often already own the home or have a lease in place.

Good luck, I hope you get this worked out. Is there only one rental available in the entire town you live in? There has to be something else...

[Occulus]

50. Oh, I'm sure there IS something else,

but the three day (they put that in writing!) application process turned into over a week, the clock is ticking, and I don't have the spare cash to put down $25 for each and every rental application, just to find out we both can't live there.

If it comes to it, he'll just have to be on the street a day or two a week, and have his mail sent to a PO box. If we do that, they can't legally say he lives with me.

He's my best friend, and we've lived together for a long, long time. Cutting him loose would be absolutely heartless, and I would never be able to forgive myself if something happened to him.

[progressivebydesign]

54. Your best bet with a time crunch??

Probably sitting down tonight with a local paper or CraigsList, if you have one, and have your roomie find himself a room for rent somewhere. If he's not employed, that would be a problem. Have your friend brainstorm on family members he could stay with if you think he cannot even find a cheap room to rent in someone's house. You're being an awesome friend, but you have to be sure you're not rescuing him to the point that you would end up feeling guilty if you had to ask him to leave at some point.. etc. You could always put your stuff in storage and find temporary digs that you can rent on your own at that point, if you didn't want to deal with the mgmt company at all, even if your friend wasn't involved.

Let us know how this works out.. and please... I hope you get your friend to seek counseling. You're taking on a HUGE amount of responsibility and guilt for another adult.

[alstephenson]

66. I'm sorry you and your roommate are going through this.

I have two ideas. (1) Could you get a glowing letter of reference from one of your previous landlords? That might help with the management company and/or with your next attempt at renting. (2) Could you go to another complex and apply alone? If the lease requires that you give them notice and allow them to run a credit check on any proposed roommate, wouldn't they be less likely to decline your roommate once you are in the apartment and paying rent? Maybe at that point they would accept a larger security deposit and/or allow you to cosign?

This sucks. No one should be homeless in this country. No one.

[Dorian Gray]

169. Isn't there anyone

at all else that he could stay with until you get this settled? For a week or two? Or for those two nights a week, if you go that route?

[Green Mountain Dem]

53. I would threaten this corporation....

with an intent to file a complaint of violating the Americans with Disabilities Act.. especially since he is receiving a Federal Disability.
The onus is then on them to prove they are not in violation and perhaps if they consider the legal costs and adverse publicity they might reconsider. In any event Good Luck to you both!

[Berry Cool]

61. I echo the advice of many other people here.

Find a landlord who owns a place who is an independent property owner and not part of a management company. They will often be more flexible than management companies and will not insist on seeing a credit score. They may be far more willing to work with you on the basis of factors like steady income (from at least one apartment mate) and a history with some other rental property of having paid the rent regularly on time. They may also take you on the basis of personal references that you're decent people who will not rip them off or turn your place into a crack house.

You need to find someone who will cut you a break. Such people are out there. Sometimes they don't have the best of places for rent, but you'd be surprised--sometimes they have hidden gems, or just places you can live for a while until things get better.

Your friend should have alternatives to homelessness.

I once rented an apartment with nothing but a letter indicating I'd been hired for a job on a one-year contract and a $20 deposit. I once rented an apartment without even yet having a job in the state I rented it in.

It can be done.

Keep both your chins up.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

63. I'm Sorry To Hear About Your Friend's Situation, But I Can't Blame The Landlord.

I completely understand why credit scores are taken into account and think they're justified in doing so. Do you have any ideas of the pains and costs associated with evicting a non paying renter?

[earth mom]

67. Another bullshit post from you. You have ZERO compassion for anyone but yourself.

:puke:

To the OP: Don't kick your friend to the curb, look for another apartment and a better landlord that isn't a fucking ogre.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. You are 100% correct.

This screw-the-poor-they-deserve-it attitude gets me :mad:

And it is idiotic. Why can't the person with good credit be 100% responsible for the payment, and the person with bad credit simply ignored? Oh, we would be able to rent more apartments and make more money, but then poor people would be spared suffering, and we can't have THAT.

And people wonder why some feel the inclination to become Communists and do unpleasant things to the rich.

[Naturyl]

79. Because they believe the person with bad credit will trash the unit

Or cause (costly) trouble in some other manner. Bad credit = bad person. Unacceptable risk. That's all there is to it, case closed.

Oops, gave away the answer to the question in one of my posts below. Oh well, good thing this post probably won't be read. :)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

80. The way things are going, you'll soon have drinking fountains for people with good credit only.

And bus seats.

Poor-haters are scum.

[Occulus]

96. And the shit of it is, WE AREN'T POOR

I bought a 50" DLP TV last year, for frak's sake.

MONEY. IS. NOT. THE. ISSUE. HERE.

*Credit* is the issue. Not mine, either, but my roommate's- for which I can compensate.

WHY is this even legal for landlords? WHY aren't they barred from ever even ASKING?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

97. No need to be poor. The bad credit relegates you to inferior race status. Ditto if you are gay.

Or atheist. Or a liberal. Or, or, or...

[Naturyl]

75. So, tell us.

Since you completely understand why credit scores are taken into account, why don't you tell us all, specifically and in detail, the actual reasons they are checked.

Hint: Don't say to establish a payment history, because rent isn't an optional bill and previous landlords can provide that information anyway. Go out on a limb and give us the REAL reason. I already know, so don't worry about letting the cat out of the bag.

[KamaAina]

82. But he's not a "non paying renter"

His roommate, the OP, can cover the whole, entire rent by himself if need be. So how is his ability to pay the issue? Or, as has been suggested elsewhere, is it the real issue? :tinfoilhat:

edit: italics

[Zuiderelle]

83. Wow, that's just shitty.

I have no other words for it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. Want to borrow some?

I'm a dirty liberal, I can share. And given that I am now a Java programmer, I'm also big on code reuse: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3826143#3829211

[Zuiderelle]

94. Holy shit.

"conversations that encourage thought and strive for understanding on both sides"

what a load.

[Neshanic]

90. Charming.

[readmoreoften]

130. The only thing that matters is rental history. Period. And credit is so scammy now it means little.

I have $60K in student loans for 4 separate college degrees. One major university screwed up my credit by incorrectly reporting my student status to credit agencies and forcing me into a private loan/withholding federal funding from me when I was eligible. Their financial aid practices are so bad that they have been investigated by the attorney general for years.

Furthermore credit companies are falsely reporting "missing" payments in order to raise APRs. I have a friend who had perfect credit until one company claimed he missed a payment. All of his cards pulled the Universal Default Clause racking everything up to 30% APR. In one month, his credit went up to the price of his monthly paycheck. So he stopped paying on his credit cards to pay his rent. He has never been so much as late on a rent payment.

I have never missed a payment on my rent or mortgage. Neither has he. Rental history is all that matters. If you can prove you're a good tenant, your landlord doesn't need to know about how the financial aid department at your former university scammed you, or even (less legitimately) that you forgot to pay on your Sears card in 2002 while your mother was in the hospital.

Sorry, you're being an asshole about this.

[Joe Fields]

153. Credit score is not a valid indicator anymore.

A small percentage of people in this country have what corporations would look at as "good credit ratings." If, for some strange circumstance, everyone in the country had to find a new place to dwell, the overwhelming majority of people would not quaslify on a lease application due to poor credit history.

[MadHound]

161. Yes, I do have an excellent idea of those pains and costs,

And you know what, I would still never do a credit check on a potential tenant. Sorry, but it's just wrong, invading a person's privacy all to look at shit that's not a good indicator of how good a tenant is going to be. What's next, piss testing potential tenants.

I was a landlord for a few years, and frankly I found that by using a much more easy going approach, get to know my tenants, and not being an authoritarian jerk, I had great success.

Sorry, but this credit score creep is an abomination that needs to be stopped.

[norepubsin08]

74. almost all landlords

are greedy, selfish motherfuckers

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

78. s/landlords/homo sapiens/

Fixed that for you.

[Prophet 451]

76. No advice

I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with US law in this area, I just wanted to send you my sympathies.

[KamaAina]

84. Have your roommate contact your local center for independent living

CILs are nonprofit organizations run by and for people with disabilities. This post originated within one. Some ridiculous amount, about 80%, of what we do has to do with housing-related issues. We get calls like this all the time. Here's the list of CILs in Michigan:

http://www.ilru.org/html/publications/directory/michigan.html

edit: spelling

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

89. Aw, now you'll make OMC cry.

:evilgrin:

[distantearlywarning]

86. You should check out Craigslist for your area

I bet you a million bucks that you can find some privately owned apartment to rent that might not even require a credit check and the accompanying fee. And you can work with little people like that, who aren't corporations or brazillionaire property owners.

Those big complexes and their attendant bureacracies are horrible. Same with property management companies.

[NMDemDist2]

88. you'd think if they're selling houses for a $1 in Detroit, you'd think

there'd be a rental....

I'm sorry, I know what you're going through, that policy started just as I quit renting and I was screwed if I tried the 'professional mngmnt co.' route

but I have been a landlord and the things people do to places is pretty horrible too

:hug:

[Occulus]

92. But would you have rented to someone who makes over 50K a year

if his roommate had disability income and a low credit rating?

That $7500 loan I took out for the lawyer was BASED ON MY CREDIT SCORE. I have good credit- no, I have GREAT credit, because I took out a loan from the same bank for a car a few years back, and I have a job with- gasp!- JOB SECURITY.

HOW is my roommate's credit an issue in light of that?

[Neshanic]

93. Credit scores are meaningless in renting. It's the person.

[Occulus]

95. And I'm a federal employee.

My roommate is on disability.

We've lived together for a decade or so.

This complex rents to students with no credit record, and incomes SIGNIFICANTLY lower than mine. His disability income supplements mine with regard to rent and bills.

Where, exactly, is the problem, APART from the credit rating of my roommate- and why is HIS credit rating an issue?

[Neshanic]

98. His credit rating should not be at all. If you have a roomate, and you are

the person holding the lease, then you should be able to have whoever you want as a roomate.

I live in a two bedroom two bath. I have no roomate. If I wanted one though, they would just move in. This place is owned by one of the largest apartment complex companies in the nation. They require nothing from a roomate. If you can pay then that should be good since you are doing the leasing.

Did your roomate have to sign a lease that is exactly the same as yours? Same length? If so then what was on his lease as far as rent? Did they split the rent between the two leases? That would be wierd.

[Occulus]

106. It's common practice here

I've been renting in this town for over a decade- PRIOR to meeting my roommate. In every case, all tenants are jointly and severally responsible (meaning, if ONE tenant damages the unit, ALL are held liable), and each and every tenant signs a copy of the lease.

This weird stuff? NORMAL in this town. And having an "extra" tenant definitely is grounds for immediate eviction, with prejudice.

Landlords in this town like to share information, too. If you've been evicted, it's immeasurably harder to find a place. They definitely blacklist here.

[Neshanic]

107. Yikes! Here in Phoenix if you are breathing, you can rent. They specifically go after

people with bad credit, evictions, anything. The rental market here is in ruins.

[Occulus]

109. It's been the way I described here for years. Over a decade.

But then, this is a college town. They love to do these things to college students, because college students don't know what their rights are.

[meow2u3]

100. This sounds like disability discrimination

The landlord is just using your roomie's bad credit as a pretext to refuse to allow a disabled person to occupy one of his apartments. I'd take it up with your lawyer and pursue a case of housing discrimination on the basis of disability.

[Freddie Stubbs]

160. Many college town rentals will require a parent to cosign

[remember2000forever]

101. Get A Letter From Your Former Landlord Saying That You Were NEVER Late!

Florida requires no allowance of discrimination. It's up to the Landlord to deam you accepted. If dealing with a Realtor, go to Tax Roles and "Jump" over him or her. Offer to put an additional deposit down.
Good Luck!

[unblock]

104. i'm quite sure credit score IS a good predictor of ability to pay rent

strictly speaking, it's designed to predict loan defaults, but loan defaults in turn are good predictors of rent problems.

i'm not saying it's fair or right, nor am i saying there's nothing you can do about it. i'm just responding to the specific point about the credit scores.

[Occulus]

108. Not true

A bank loan does not equal paying rent. Most people will forgo paying off the loan before they will paying for the roof over their heads.

There is little to no connection between bad credit and being able to pay rent, especially in this case, where one person with excellent credit has the ability to pay the rent in full (a FEDERAL EMPLOYEE) and another person with bad credit who is on disability (and therefore has ADDITIONAL income to ADD to rent and bills) cannot on their own.

This is wrong. Just wrong. HIS credit has NO bearing on MY ability to pay rent for BOTH of us, and his disability income, regardless of his credit rating, ENHANCES that ability to pay rent.

Thus, in this case, asking for credit ratings is WRONG where landlords are concerned. Just... wrong.

[unblock]

110. i agree that the landlord should be satisfied with your credit and salary

he should write the lease so that, if he's not satisfied with your roommate's ability to pay alone, then your roommate can stay only so long as you stay as well or he gets another co-signer.


back to the credit score question, though i agree that bank loans aren't the same as rent; people will certainly default on a loan before letting themselves get evicted. on the other hand, if you're having trouble paying your bills, e.g., rent, then with GOOD credit, you get borrow to get by. with BAD credit, you don't have that emergency cushion and therefore are more likely to have rent problems.

i think you have enough positives in this case that your landlord should be satisfied, but you really can't argue that credit scores aren't even relevant. they are.

[Occulus]

112. But the landlord's only question should be whether rent can be paid on time.

The landlord really doesn't have any other concern. EVERY other possible relevant question- bills, etc.- are NOT the landlord's responsibility!

Is it a concern of my landlord that my roommate might not be able to afford the full electric bill? Of course not!

Is it a concern of my landlord that my roommate might not be able to afford his part of the phone bill? Of course not!

Is it a concern of my landlord that my roommate might not be able to afford the internet bill? OF COURSE NOT!!

These things are NOT the landlord's concern. ALL these things are activated by credit, with a deposit if necessary, and our prospective landlord ALREADY HAS THE FRAKING DEPOSIT! They gave us a receipt, dammit!

We were given a receipt that shows our move-in date, the date of the beginning of our lease, AND the end of our lease. There is no ambiguity on this form; it does not say "we expect you move-in date it be..." , no, it says "your move-in date IS..."

We. Are. Being. Fucked.

And, in the words of Mr. Horse from "Ren & Stimpy", no, sir, I don't like it.

[unblock]

115. i do think the receipt constitutes acceptance, see my post #103

of course this varies by state, but i would think that accepting a security deposit constitutes agreement.

[readmoreoften]

131. Total bullshit. Rental history predicts rental payments.

I know few people with good credit scores. I know not a single person who doesn't pay their rent on time. People with low credit scores are often working people who have been victimized by scams and cannot afford to hire lawyers to clear their records like the rich do. It has nothing to do with ability to give a chunk of your regular income to your housing.

[Naturyl]

133. I know a family...

Who have always paid their rent on time for DECADES and who routinely *improve* the landlord's property without saying a word or charging the landlord a dime. They do almost all the repairs and maintenance themselves and have been known on multiple occasions to re-paint the entire house at their own expense. They are clean, quiet, and friendly. When landlords are lucky enough to get this family as tenants, they never want to see them leave.

This family has bad credit. Credit-checking landlords need not apply.

[SheilaT]

114. Doesn't contract law apply here?

If you have a signed lease, can they really now refuse to rent to you? Of course, the problem about not wanting your roomie on the lease is a completely different issue, and yes, having an off-the-lease roommate is grounds for eviction everywhere as far as I know.

It really sounds as if there's something else going on, and perhaps you don't actually have the full information, and the bit about the low credit score is a cover for something else.

And to everyone here who is screaming about how crappy landlords are, just try being one. It's incredible what tenants, even fairly good ones, do.

I've been a landlord. Of a high end townhouse in Phoenix, about twenty years ago, that we were having trouble selling. So we rented it out. It commanded over a thousand dollars a month, which twenty years ago was a fairly high rent. First tenant played basketball for the Phoenix Suns. He, his wife, and two kids, lived there together maybe six weeks, then one of the kids got seriously ill, so Mom and kids returned to Milwaukee, where they were from, to stay with family and see the kid through surgery. Then Basketball Player got traded to the Chicago Bulls. Rent didn't get paid. All we wanted was for their stuff to be moved out so we could re-rent -- there was a clause in the lease that got them out if traded. In the end, our management company called the head coach of the Chicago Bulls at home. Coach's wife answered the phone. Everything was moved out within a week. We kept the deposit, and it's possible we actually were out a week or two of rent. I can't really recall after so long.

So we re-rented the place. New tenants moved out after a year, and we were told that the carpeting in the living room (at this point not even three years old) would need to be replaced. As it turned out a buyer showed up and bought the place.

The place I am currently renting has brand new tile flooring throughout, which I just love, but was put in right before I rented it because the previous tenants completely trashed the place. And I was concerned that the landlords wouldn't want to rent to me because I had no rental history, since I was relocating because of a divorce, had lived in my own homes, not rentals, for more than twenty years. And I didn't have a job yet. Luckily they were willing to take a chance on me, and of course my ability to come up with deposit and first and last months' rent made a difference.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Naturyl]

119. Yep, I've never gotten a deposit back, either.

In some cases, I wasn't entitled to it - but in others, I was. Didn't matter, never saw it.

I don't rent currently, but before we bought this place, it had gotten to the point where I considered deposits money down the drain. I doubt I'd even bother asking for it if I were to rent again. Why bother?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

143. i have never NOT gotten a deposit back

usually left the place as good or better than we found it with picture or video documentation to that fact...but we have never had to pull out the 'evidence' to get our deposit back...

strange that it should be such a problem for you...

sP

[SheilaT]

120. Oh, my.

Called a liar. Well, I'm sorry you don't believe me, but yes, it happened as I described. Basketball player wasn't the one paying the bills, apparently, it was wife. And she was more concerned about her seriously ill kid, than about paying the rent. And, guess what? It is legal to keep the deposit in lieu of the last month's rent. That's why we get a deposit. I repeat: they moved out and didn't pay the next two months' rent. How selfish of us to want our rent. I guess that makes me exactly the kind of landlord no one wants.

Twenty years ago there weren't credit scores to check. All we cared about was the renters could afford to pay our rent.

And I don't know the details about the trashing of the apartment. I do know from the neighbors that previous tenants were not good neighbors, had loud and noisy parties very late into the night, friends who parked illegally in the tenants' spaces,

You're being incredibly nasty and hostile. Perhaps there is some reason why someone made a false drug trafficking charge.

If you don't want to rent, then buy a place. You make 50k a year. That should be enough to qualify you for a mortgage. Quite frankly, there's something just a little off about YOUR story of how you're suddenly being evicted because of a completely false charge, and you can't even fight it and now no one will rent to you. I was feeling quite sympathetic, but not now.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

124. Huh?

They signed a lease - doesn't matter if they moved out early. They're still responsible for the payments. You can't just walk away from a contract - at least, no where I've ever lived.

Pretty cut and dried on that one.

I'm really sorry about your situation, but you're not garnering much support by being so irrational.

[SheilaT]

127. They moved out and left all their stuff behind.

I said that in my first post. We couldn't re-rent until their stuff was gone. Is that so hard to understand? I expect rent to be paid if they still have all their stuff there. They signed a lease. It's a legal obligation. Is that hard for you to figure out?

And please don't threaten me. It's not nice, and probably against the rules here.

And, We sold the house. If you missed reading that part, have someone read it to you. I'm no longer a landlord.

[Naturyl]

129. A bit off on this one.

Unfortunately, if there was a lease, they would have legally owed the two months' rent. Personally, I hate leases, landlords, credit checks, capitalism ,and all of it as much or more than the next commie bastard, but legally that's the deal. This particular landlord may or may not be a decent human being. Many of them certainly aren't - but legally, he or she would be in the right on this. If there was a lease, the money was owed, whether the tenants vacated or not. It sucks and probably OUGHT to be illegal - but it just isn't.

Hate to have to go to bat for the eeeeeeeeeeevil capitalist oppressor on this one, but the law is the law.

[SoCalDem]

116. A similar thing happened to my son.. He qualified to rent this place all on his own

There was a space on the agreement for him to list his roommate, so he did.. It was a 2 bedroom apartment, so he could have been renting it all by himself, and left the blank ..well...blank, but he did plan of having a roommate, so he listed his friend..

The day AFTER they moved in, the landlord sent him a certified letter saying that he was not "allowed" to have his friend as a roommate ..why?? His friend's credit score was "insufficient".. His "sin".. at age 18 he bought a car he could not afford, and he turned it back in (it wasn't even repossessed by a repo guy)...but because he defaulted, his credit was bad..

The rent was $1k a month, so I loaned my son $6K, and had him give it in CASH to the landlord for advance rent, just to show that they were not going to fly the coop without paying rent.. My son had paid a $750 deposit & 1st & last month's rent when he found the place, so they actually had almost 9 month's-worth of rent.. They did finally accept him as a roommate, but you'd have thought we were negotiating a multi-million dollar deal..

It was a very cool apartment, but I kept telling him to find a different one because that landlord was a kook.. It was a carbon copy of the Melrose Place apartments , and two other friends had apartments there, so of course that's where he wanted to live too:)

He ended up making money on the deal though, because when they found out he did tilework, they hired him to do a lot of renovating, and his year there ended up beinf virtually free :)

[patriotproud]

118. renting with bad credit

I'm disabled and have a good idea of what you're going through.

Two possible solutions, both of which have worked for me:

Get on Craigslist in your town and find a decent used RV. I have owned two good ones in the past five years and paid only $3000 for one of them. I was able to sell them both for what I paid for them when I was done with them, as I didn't really drive them but simply lived in them for a year or so. You can find, if you look, half decent RV parks with "long term rental" rates, typically between $300 and $500 a month, which will include utilities. A good park will have nice people as managers, and clean showers (I'm big so showering in a tiny cubicle is a pain). You might get lucky and find one that actually has a decent community, with a meeting room, weekly meetings with meals, etc. Yes, you'll probably also live with some unpleasant marginalized folks, but you'll also have some great neighbors. Look around and don't be afraid of knocking on some doors in the park and asking the residents how they like living there. Since you're in Michigan, if you can find an older Airstream, Argosy, or similar trailer it'll be fairly cheap to heat, as paid utilities doesn't include gas, and some RV's are notoriously poorly insulated. Remember, this is a temporary solution, and you can continue to look for a house while you're in the park. The ugly landlord situation exists with some RV parks as well, as some RV parks won't let you even park in them overnight if your RV is over ten years old? Basically they're hanging out a sign that says that if you're a retiree with an income of less than $80,000 a year you're not welcome.

If you're receiving federal disability, you are entitled to live in public housing. Many communities have separate, reasonably pleasant public housing communities for the aged and disabled. Additionally, if you are disabled you have a preference on the waiting list, as if can take over a year to actually get into one of these good public housing communities. Whatever else you do about housing, your friend should apply for housing with the local public housing authority. His rent will be determined by his income, and in some of these communities the gas and water are paid, which can make a big difference to someone on disability income.

That said, do yourself, and your friend a favor and find a good social worker, preferably someone with a local, non-profit agency, who can act as your advocate in this and future situations. Social workers are licensed professionals, and other professionals tend to treat them with a degree of caution and respect that they may not show to the disabled.

[aikoaiko]

122. Asa landlord, it seems as if the property managers are being thoughtless in their screening approach

I would rent my place to you guys with the understanding that you were solely responsible for the rent. I didn't read every post but it sounds like you either have to have a serious face-to-face conversation with the top property manager and come to an understanding. Don't leave messages-- go to the office dressed well and be pleasant. Assure them you understand why a poor credit score is a "red flag". You've got a good argument in that you can carry the rent by yourself and you would probably get the apartment even as a single renter.


I don't just look at the scores, but the credit history. Somone with a recent history of not paying bills is not someone I want to rent to. Not that it matters, but I don't see how a messy divorce equals a bad credit rating. Debt does not, by itself, cause a credit score to go down.

[readmoreoften]

132. Thank you for proving that all landlords aren't irrational elitist nutcases.

If I had to rent out my home, my concern would be rental history: have they paid their rent consistently for the last 20 years? do they not punch holes in the walls? have they consistently failed to kill their neighbors? Fantastic.

[aikoaiko]

146. Rent payment history is an important part of some one credibility

But if someone is a financial disaster is most or some other areas of life, it's a reasonable thing to worry that their financial woes will spread to their rent.

A bad history of paying bills is almost as bad as having a dog or two cats. ;)

[BrklynLiberal]

125. I have had that experience as well...and there are jobs that check your credit

rating and if it is not good enough, you will not be hired. How is that for irony?
Bad credit rating - no job, No job - bad credit rating :wtf:

[Naturyl]

134. Yeah, that's even more ridiculous.

You're going to pay me and yet you want to check my credit? LOL!

And I'm NOT supposed to realize that the assumption is that if I have bad credit I'm a thief who will steal from the workplace? Come on, how stupid do you think I am?

[Morning Dew]

139. or auto insurance

Poor credit = higher insurance rates. Utter BS !

[Hannah Bell]

141. my credit rating is over 700 & i was turned down for car insurance-

supposedly because of the credit score.

I got a notice later there'd been some kind of class action suit.

it's nuts.

[Alcibiades]

128. Credit ratings can also be an excuse

My old landlord's rental agent used them as a tool to "screen" prospective renters. He rejects folks all the time, telling them their credit rating is too low, though the threshold is never explicitly stated.

I suspect that the real threshold is established when he determines the race of the prospective renter: I think some of his clients (like my old landlord) won't rent to anyone who's not white. On the plus side, we did get our deposit back, for the first time in many years.

[REP]

140. There may be 'Megan's Law' issues the lanlord doesn't want to deal with

The felon the OP mentions his roommate has is a sex offense. If this is a large complex, the management/landlord may not want to have to inform the other tenants as required under 'Megan's Law'-type requirements, which would risk losing many tenants to gain just one.

(http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3537909&mesg_id=3539560)

[Naturyl]

142. Ay-yi-yi...

Sex offense, eh? Great. The editing period on my supportive, encouraging posts has expired... so that's now on the public record... ugh. Super-duper. One more reason to fear the Google.

Gotta love the internet and my own damned propensity to jump into things I don't know enough about.

And yeah, I did read the linked post. We're told the hand just "flopped over?" Just flopped right on over there and a conviction was obtained on no more evidence than that? Yeah... not even gonna say anything else. I've gotten myself in enough trouble as it is.

[Dorian Gray]

170. Don't worry about that

We've all jumped in there in the past, and with the information you had, I can see why you were supportive. :)

But, I think it's clear now that the "low credit score" is an excuse for, "we aren't comfortable having a convicted felon (sexual) living here." And since they hadn't moved in, it's within their rights.

Honestly, I can't blame the landlords in this case.

[SouthernVoter]

151. The other shoe drops!

A credit check could be part of overall background check. I could see how the landlord is just lumping it all into one statement.

If the felony is a sex offense, then I can see a huge red flag in a complex.

It is not the landlord's responsibility to find out the circumstances of the sex offense, he just sees felony sex offender and that is it.

I can't blame the landlord for not wanting that liability in today's litigious world.

Also, it is not out of the question that the current landlord found out about the sex offense and used that to evict them quickly from their apartment. I haven't seen a lease in awhile, but I am sure there are terms that allow for that.

[tammywammy]

155. Well, that adds quite a bit to the story n/t

[Dorian Gray]

171. No kidding....

I feel foolish for being on the fence about it until that bit of info came out. Who can blame the landlord?

[SouthernVoter]

172. Your nugget of truth seems to have killed this thread...

Even after all the self-righteousness thrown around.

The supporters seem to have dried up and the OP is nowhere to be found.

Funny how truth does that.

[rucky]

144. FICO is flawed, and their scoring method is a secret.

plus, most landlords probably have no idea how to read a credit report. If they haven't missed payments on rent, then personal debt should not be an issue.

[EstimatedProphet]

145. I understand. I've been there myself.

The no renting to bad credit crap is infuriating. And it's unnecessary anyway - practically everyone has a lease when they take an apartment, so there's already a legal document in place to enforce!

[wryter2000]

149. This happened to me

I was flabbergasted. In no way do I diminish the injustice, but just to help you guys out a bit, here's what the man at the rental agency told me. He said that a large landlord has to use strict criteria in selecting their tenants. Otherwise, they can run afoul of fair renting laws -- laws I support, btw. What he suggested the dh and I do was to look for a tiny landlord...someone who only owned one rental unit (for example, someone who owned a duplex and was renting half or someone who kept an old house as a rental property). Those people have more leeway in choosing renters.

Out of pure luck, a house came up for rent that was, indeed, the couple's old house that they'd kept as a rental unit. Immediately, the dh and I drove by, determined that whatever it was like inside, we could lean on the landlord and make it work. We told them we wanted it without even going inside. They laughed and insisted we look inside. We did, and I told them immediately we wanted it.

I told them honestly about our credit problems but wrote a three-page, single-spaced letter about how we could afford it. I told them about every penny that came to us every month. I kept after them, even returning one of their calls from the Dallas-Fort Worth airport (the house was in Oakland). We got the house. A few years later, they sold it to us. It's one of the best things that ever happened to us.

I've heard other stories of people documenting for landlords about their ability to pay rent and getting the apartment/house. I suggest you take that advice, and good luck!

[TwixVoy]

152. And someone on this board

just complained to me that I talk about credit too much and couldn't understand why.

[SouthernVoter]

162. Is this the same guy with the sex offense on his record?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3537909&mesg_id=3539560

Did the landlord say credit check or background check?

What did the landlord say when they say they would reject your roommate?

I can't really blame the landlord for rejecting if he is on the sex offender registry.

[Throd]

165. I thought there might be more to this story.

...staying tuned...

[ullad]

168. good credit does not make a good tenant

I rented out my home for one year to a woman who consistently was late in paying her rent. She had a good job and good credit. Although she had agreed that she would move out at the end of the lease, she did not. She changed the locks on my property, let the grass in my yard grow waist-high, tore up my house and her dog destroyed my yard. The tenant rental laws in TN are favoring renters and I had to go through the Court system to get her out. In the meantime, I had to move into a hotel with my dog. In addition to repairing my yard and my home, I had aggravation with this woman to no end. She had just purchased her own home and already had gone through closing, but she insisted on hanging on to my home.

So you see that good credit does not make a good tenant.