I am SO glad we're finally just minutes away from the National Night Of Religious Pandering

[Stinky The Clown]

When will they do the National Clown Forum?

Or the League of Left Handed Aleutian Islanders?

How about the Coalition to Bring Back Tie Dyed Tee Shirts?

Presidential Candidates in a fucking CHURCH.

Blech.

:eyes:

[pinto]

1. Though the media is portraying it as such, I don't think it will be that bad.

The pastor guy hasn't said he'll focus on faith, per se.

The proof is in the pudding of course, but this *could* be a good rambling discussion.

I don't dismiss it out of hand. We'll see.

[LWolf]

2. I yearn for a time

when political debates are not managed by corporate media or national religion.

[bluestateguy]

3. The whining on this board tonight is going to be deafening

I feel the need to remind people that while the Constitution bars a religious test for office, voters are free to vote for or against someone for whatever reason they want. Like it or not, religion does play a role in the decisions that many voters make.

To get elected, a candidate has to live in the world as it is, not as we hope it to be.

[Malikshah]

11. The US World, not the world. We're a laughing stock

We are the laughing stock of the world for the pandering that goes on--as well as the power of pop-psychologists/pseudo-intellectuals like Warren, Graham and their ilk.

Yes, there's a long history of such pandering. But there was a long history of slavery, belief in the four humors, bloodletting, and belief in witches.

It is time for things to change in this country.

[cliffordu]

19. I agree, but the haters disguised as christians in this country

would kill us all if it meant they could stay in power.

The last two killings haven't occurred in a vacuum.

[Malikshah]

27. Too true. It is time to stop laughing at the ridiculousness of the GOP

and their ilk (to me, laughing at them is not effective anymore).

It is time to publicly shame and then shun. It is time to condemn irrational thought for what it is

[cliffordu]

37. As long as hate radio - and a lot of "christian" radio qualifies,

they are going to have a majority of believers.

I met a group of heavily armed christian nuts a couple years ago. They're ready to be left behind....

[salinen]

49. Laughing is useless

I'm tired of using ridicule as a weapon. I want to see real firepower. Who am I kidding?

[FatDave]

48. "Like it or not, religion does play a role in the decisions that many voters make"

And that, in my eyes, is an enormous problem we face as a nation.

[MrModerate]

4. Sad fact #259: No one gets elected president in the US without . . .

Professing avid Christian faith. Obama and (even) McCain are realists, regardless of what their personal beliefs may be. So they're doin' the god thing.

Yeah, it turns my stomach, but I'm in the minority that doesn't believe in supernatural explanations for natural phenomena.

However, the upside is that Obama can speak articulately about issues like faith and suchlike and McCain can't speak articulately about anything. This might be a pretaste of the debates.

[progressoid]

51. Correction: No one gets elected president 'TODAY' without

Professing avid Christian faith.

It wasn't always this way.

[MrModerate]

54. There was a time about 10-15 years ago when I thought . . .

America was following the European path: religion becoming increasingly irrelevant in public life, ultimately resulting in essentially secular states. Especially in politics, a situation where religion was a personal thing, but of no particular interest to voters.

Boy.Was.I.Wrong.

[progressoid]

58. It may yet happen.

It may take a while but I hope that as the religious right's hypocrisy gets exposed their influence will shrink.

Hey - a guy can dream right?

[cliffordu]

5. Great questions....

I wonder if it's really going to make a fucking bit of difference -

[PCIntern]

6. I'm glad you posted this:

we now have Universal pandering to the "Crowd" who met on the Mall today.

We are descending into a Circle of Hell from which we not be able to emerge. The MSM has ensured that the same crap is going to be recycled over and over, from quadrennial event to event...and I ain't talking about the O'lympics. I'm Jewish and I'm pissed and certainly wouldn't want this in a synagogue...this IS NOT the place for this stuff. I'll thank you to keep your filthy politics out of my religion.

[cliffordu]

14. I'm confused - I read your post as actually saying

"Keep your filthy religion out of my politics"

Which I completely agree with -

Reading as it is confuses me. I do want to know what you meant.

[PCIntern]

20. What did I write?

I said, don't sully my religion with lies, with pandering, with BS promises, with phony piousness.

Clear?

[cliffordu]

32. Got it, thanks!!

:hi:

[Richard D]

7. Is this going to be live online?

No TV here

[Kutjara]

8. Last night, the L. A. news channels were agog...

...with how today's little inquisition would finally pin the candidates down on "the issues of greatest importance to voters." These issues are not, of course, war, poverty, health care, education, or even the economy. Oh no. Apparently, what the average no-job-no-insurance-in-hock-up-to-their-ears voter wants to know is which candidate is the bestest kisser of the Sky Fairy's ass in the whole wide world.

People don't care about what Obama or McCain think about real stuff, apparently; they want to know how much the Presidential contenders believe in made up stuff, for only someone who really truly believes in comforting fantasies has the kind of clear-headed rationality needed to lead a modern superpower.

[trashcanistanista]

9. I heard it from an Obama delegate that the preacher of this

evangelical Orange County Church is an Obama supporter (which is why that church was picked), so they will not be too hard on him. Yes, I don't like the churchiness mixing with politics either, but at least he was smart enough to select a supportive fundie church. I suspect they will go after McSame. Anyone know if this is televised?

I wanted to add that I heard this is not just a church, but a humongous mega-church. Since I'm not a churchgoer, I don't have a clue, that's just what I heard today. After his "church" appearance, Obama will head up to visit the twin sin cities of San Fran and Reno on Sunday!:-)

[Kutjara]

16. KTLA "News" said they'd be runnning it live on their website.

ktla.trb.com

[XOKCowboy]

10. I'm with you...

I'm a little sickened by how our political process has been corrupted to this point. I will be interested to see if Grandpa is hammered for his "sinful" behavior.

[liberal renegade]

23. hopefully

the sin of adultery is thrown in his face.

[XOKCowboy]

35. If tonight miraculously comes down to real religious beliefs...

Obama wins it hands down.

Hopefully. :)

[AndyTiedye]

12. I Think I'm Gonna…

:puke:

[texasleo]

13. If the forum were in a mosque, the complainers would be celebrating.

Don't even try to deny it.

:eyes:

I agree that church is no place for politics, but I also think that Obama will have a chance to shine tonight.

[trashcanistanista]

29. Yes, he has already

taken care of that well in advance. It's stacked in his favor from the get go.

[Kutjara]

30. Last time I checked...

...America wasn't a muslim nation, so holding the event in a mosque would have very different connotations from holding it in a Christian church. Like it or not, Christianity has become a fourth branch of government in this country, and events like this only serve to cement the idea in people's minds.

If the candidates had gone to a mosque, synagogue, temple, or wooded glade, it wouldn't have sent anything like the message of "State religion" this little "Evening with Torquemada" does. Instead, it would have communicated far more positive notions of inclusiveness and multiculturalism. But that was never going to happen. Not in Gahd's Country.

[Bill McBlueState]

60. I'd be complaining either way

Can't speak for anyone else, though.

[magellan]

63. You speak for me

Religious purity contests have no place in a true democracy.

[saltpoint]

15. Pretty good night to rent CALIGULA.

DUers coast to coast should flood their local video shops and demand a night's rental on CALIGULA.

[isentropic]

17. When does it start? I have some grass I need to watch growing...

:shrug:

[muntrv]

18. Obama should point out that he's been married to the same woman, unlike McBush.

[trashcanistanista]

21. That would be a good opener!

:rofl:

[Kutjara]

36. Maybe something subtle like...

..."The other day, I was asking my wife - I can say 'my wife' without having to specify, because I only have one - anyway, I was asking my wife..." :evilgrin:

[ColbertWatcher]

22. It's not religious pandering, it's Christian pandering. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

24. Dammit - need a football game to watch.

[Blue_In_AK]

25. I won't be watching.

It makes me a little ill.

[redwitch]

46. Men in Black is on.

It's no contest! :hi:

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. I think Obama should go to Cook's Corner afterward and have a beer. n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

28. To paraphrase Tom Lehrer. "It's only for a nite so have no fear;

be grateful that it doesn't last all year."

Don't take it too 'serious'. Like baby-kissing, just another hoop these guys have to jump thru.

[Solly Mack]

31. WWNFJPT?

Who would 900 foot Jesus pander to?

[trashcanistanista]

45. Probably these fundies in the OC.

They are in one of the wealthiest areas of the country and that's where the $$$$ is. I hope they sell out of shwag tonight.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[eleny]

34. Or Grovelbot rights...

K&R

[Beregond2]

38. Is there anything more ridiculous

than the fear of religion on this board? What country do you think you are living in? How is it "pandering" to address a topic that is of importance in the lives of the vast majority of the population?

[Stinky The Clown]

40. It isn't fear.

But you go ahead ..... say your piece.

Keep 'separation of church and state' in mind though.

And imagine how many heads would explode nationally if this were in a mosque. Or wherever Wiccans worship.

Yasee, here's the thing ...... religion has NO FUCKING PLACE in politics.

Remember Kennedy? He had to give a speech saying the his religion would NOT influence his politics.

How far we have fallen .....

You were saying ............ ?

[gaspee]

42. Fear?

How about disgust? 'Cause that's what I feel. Fear, ha!

[Bill McBlueState]

61. So if I think something sucks,

then I must secretly fear it? I guess that's why I've been having nightmares about John Stamos.

[gaspee]

39. Warren is just another snake oil salesman

That the idiot American people fall for. What is it about religious people being so easy to freakin cheat - glad so many are giving their hard earned bucks to another fraud "godly man"

This pandering is disgusting. It makes me sick.

I can't watch it - I might puke and I don't feel like cleaning up puke.

Or I might throw something at my TV and I can not afford a new one.

I hate that the frigging religious freaks control our freaking country.

[Canuckistanian]

41. Is this a tradition?

I don't recall it being such a big deal before.

[dbonds]

43. Thing they would do a National Wicca Forum?

[MountainLaurel]

47. That could be fun

You could get questions about the destruction of the environment for the sake of business, religious freedom issues, the rolling back of Roe v. Wade.

Good times.

[stray cat]

44. Questions about values in a potential president to anyone who want to turn on the tv

how terrible - just turn off the tv if you are not interested....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. Will God be watching? Or, does he have more interesting things to do than watch politicians pose?

[progressoid]

52. He's busy with the Olympics.

LOTS of prayers to answer there. :)

[kestrel91316]

53. Agreed. Completely inappropriate, IMHO.

[LibDemAlways]

56. Back in 1960 Kennedy addressed a bunch of

mostly Baptist Texas preachers to assure them that he would not let his religion influence his Presidency. Today the candidates sit before some evangelical snake oil salesman in a megachurch operated on the theological principle of "he who greases the pastor's palm will be most favored" and have to answer a bunch of questions in such a way to convince one segment of the electorate that their Presidency will be guided by their religious beliefs. What the hell ever happened to separation of church and state? Obama should never have agreed to participate in this charade.

[kestrel91316]

62. Now it's apparently de riguer for our candidates to

assure preachers that they WILL let religion influence their presidency.

I DON'T APPROVE.

[RoyGBiv]

55. Depends ...

I would have no problem voting for an atheist, just as I have no problem voting for a Catholic or a Protestant or whatever.

I would have a problem voting for a candidate that claimed, directly or by implication, that those who were not atheist were somehow lesser people or not just as deserving of a voice in government.

The latter, unfortunately, is what many of the concerned seem to suggest they want.

[PurityOfEssence]

57. OUR candidate made it a religious election; without him, it wouldn't be

Get serious: had he not accepted or engineered such a forum, it WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

Perhaps people could say he ducked something, but that wouldn't have even been a blip on the national consciousness.

Either Mr. Obama thinks it's necessary to shove more religion into the election or he just sees it as a handy scam to scam the scammers, but the net result is the same: he walks into the lion's den and doesn't even have a pat answer for abortion. Didn't he see that coming?

People HATE complexity and uncertainty, that's why most people have religion: it's a shut-the-fuck-up answer and it's simple, tidy, and shut the fuck up. People like that. Apparently most of them seem to NEED it, so if you're playing on the cricket field, bring the proper bat, not a pool cue or a curling broom.

This is his doing, and he'd better be able to figure out how to turn it around or it'll blow up on all of us.

Then again, even if he DOES turn it around, it is now accepted that religion is NECESSARY in our politics. Win or lose, we lose.

The lesson should have been apparent in South Carolina with the McClurkin flap: religion has unintended consequences. It's DANGEROUS.

Sheesh.

[Two Americas]

64. well said

Get the religion out of politics and the politics out of religion. No good can come from this.

[windoe]

59. Ironic with such blurring of church & state we are now more violent than ever

as a country, with all the gulags, torturing and pre emptive strikes,incarceration and police brutality... and no Constitution to speak of.

[arthritisR_US]

65. what a crock of shit it was! n/t