Should the Dems go to the dark side (fight fire with fire)?

[gulliver]

Republicans are willing to gull the dopes, stampede the skittish, bully the weak...shouldn't we be too? Just askin'. If they are willing to use dirty, belligerent, dishonest rhetoric, we may have to also. The good guys should not lose because they won't fight in the mud with the bad guys.

The very biggest problem I see with taking the high road all the time is that it sets an impossible standard for our conduct. When we deviate in any way from that standard (or are slandered as having deviated), we lose our whole rhetorical position. Look at Edwards tail-spinning in flames after an affair while McCain--who has an equal or worse background--flies straight and level.

Don't give me this media bias thing. We set the standard by which we are judged whenever we say we are going to "take the high road" or "change politics." Talking about taking the high road is like saying to the media "judge me by a higher standard than may opponent."

A road that leads the good guys to lose is not ethically a high road. It is a low road. If we don't ridicule, undermine, savage, character assassinate, exaggerate, wantonly abuse rhetoric with fallacy...like the Republicans, we will lose. If we lose, the innocent suffer. That outweighs our scruples, IMO. It also makes us seem priggish and holier-than-thou. Dems are humans; and humans are sometimes SOBs.

[Cleita]

1. I don't think we need to lower our standards. All we need to do is tell the

truth and be relentless about it until the cockroaches are on the defensive and running. Any provable criminal activity or moral depravity should be aired. I would really start with getting some forensic accountants to dig into their financial affairs. There is a gold mine of theft, corruption, deals and so on to be exposed I would guarantee with any Republican candidate. See if they pay their taxes, hire illegal aliens, have shell corporations that cover less than legal business transactions. I mean there will be a lot there IMHO. I think the reason Democrats don't want to do this is because it could be done to them. However beating them to the punch will have them on the defensive and running.

[gulliver]

3. Nietzsche one said something to the effect..

...when the truth wins, ask what lie fought for it.

I think our standards and attitude are too monomaniacaly rigid and brittle. The current psychology of whether someone is a criminal, a liar, a cockrach is all screwed up. The Dems would not impeach Bush unless he agreed that he should be impeached. Anything else is a fight.

An informed, unbiased, objective, educated electorate would make it possible to hold elections based on truth. That's why I think we should use something else.

...in addition to the truth of course.

[Cleita]

7. You guys don't get it. I'm talking about getting dirty but with the truth.

If you slander like when BushCo accused John McCain of having a black baby, it backfired on them. You can't slander, but in everyone's closet are bunch of skeletons that no one has aired that can be. You have to dig them up. If I had the back ground and were money wise able to, I would be working on discrediting my congressional rep, whom I have heard some rumors that should end his political career, but someone has to get the proof. Also, our lame ass local Democratic committee seldom bothers to run a Democrat against the Republican incumbent, so what's the point?

[gulliver]

9. I get it now...

...I agree we should "get dirty with the truth." Trouble is, if we aren't willing to hold ourselves to a standard that accepts both good and bad when it comes to rhetoric, even dirty truths won't do anything for us. People will look at us like we should be ashamed we unearthed something. Our whole attitude needs to be a bit more fully "human," IMO.

[TooBigaTent]

4. Telling the truth has not worked for at least a decade now. Truth did not keep

Pres. Clinton from being impeached.

Telling the truth did not win Al Gore the White House. Or John Kerry.

If you want to make it three in a row, let Sen. Obama continue to play defense and never attack McInsane or the pukes.

As the OP states, it is not noble to "fight the good fight" and lose, allowing the GOPers to continue their destruction of our nation, and the world.

I view it as a form of self defense. Under usual circumstances, I would not advocate killing a person. But, if they were attacking my daughter, I would not hesitate.

These shits have been attacking all our children for decades. It is time to get rid of the Marques of Queensbury Rules and throw as many sucker punches, with loaded gloves or brass knuckles, as necessary to put down the enemy.

[Cleita]

5. None of them told the juicy truth. All they did was defend the lies told

against them after the damage was done. I'm talking about going on the offensive with the dirty truth about them. I'm not into spreading lies for political gain, but in the case of those Repukes you don't have to. I'll bet a good investigator, who can follow the money in McCain's case will turn up more truth and crooked, cooked books that not only will end his candidacy but maybe even put him in jail.

[isentropic]

2. Fergit all that pansy "blessed are the peacemaker" shit...we need to go postal on the bastards.

Take a few scalps and pour salt on their children! Playing nice only wins at bake-offs, this is WAR I tells ya, WAR.

[Paladin]

10. Christ, I Hate To Agree With You On Something.

But you're absolutely right about this. This whole turn the other cheek attitude should have been ditched by Democrats two elections ago. The Republicans depend on this sort of faint-hearted attitude from us, and they use it against us at every opportunity. Enough, already.....

[isentropic]

12. I guess it's a good thing I didn't advocate popping a cap in their asses!

:D :rofl:

edit: but come to think of it, 'going postal' amounts to the same thing anyhoo...
;-)

[grannie4peace]

6. absolutely not

evil attract evil---yuck---there really is a God & He honors truth. that's all i've got to say about that

[TooBigaTent]

8. If you truly are a "grannie', you need to realize that today's version of the GOP is much worse than

any political entity in US history in terms of its willingness to use dirty tactics, violence, and illegal actions to win.

Teddy Roosevelt would never be a rethug in the here and now. Bush*, Rove, Cheney, etc. are the real GOP and to act and fight against them as if they are abiding by the same rules you do, or remember TR adhering to, is SUICIDE.

It is a totally different world. The Dems have yet to realize that.

[DFLforever]

11. What makes you think they won't

Just because they're taking the 'high road' in public doesn't mean that's all they'll do or are doing. I recall reading that among the first GE hires by Obama were Clinton's oppo research people.

Granted, Obama (like Bush) will distance himself from the truly unsavory stuff.

[Flabbergasted]

13. YES....Obama should have a anti-McCain book out right now. nt

[BlooInBloo]

14. DUers generally don't believe in the principles that would make us different from republicans...

By and large, they'd be happy to do the same things republicans do, just for the "good" side.

[gulliver]

15. That's not the point, of course.

The point is that there are a vast differences in principle between Democrats and Republicans. But one side has chosen to abandon principles of legitimate rhetoric, courtesy, honesty, and, far too often, civility. That's the Republicans. If the only thing that will stop Republicans from fighting dirty is getting a double dose of it aimed at them, then that's the medicine they need.

Karma's not going to catch up to the Republicans in time to help their victims. That's a passive-aggressive fantasy. Republicans aren't criminals, by and large, either. It's not that they deserve to have their characters assassinated, their positions distorted, their funding assailed through underhanded means... It's that they think we Democrats (and the good things we "wish" to protect) deserve that kind of treatment. They already think we deserve to be treated badly. I think they do too. We need to get this out of both of our systems.