Russia threatens to nuke Poland . . . and Ukraine . . . and _____

[bushmeister0]

NYT:

"The United States and Poland reached a long-stalled deal on Thursday to place an American missile defense base on Polish territory.

A senior Russian defense official, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, suggested that Poland was making itself a target by agreeing to host the anti-missile system. Such an action 'cannot go unpunished,' he said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/world/europe/16poland.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

AP reports:

"The statement by Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn is the strongest threat that Russia has issued against the plans to put missile defense elements in former Soviet satellite nations. 'Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent,' Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_re_eu/russia_us_missile_defense

Not to worry, the NYT piece goes on to say, that in order to get the Poles to sign on the dotted line we had to ensure . . .

"That at least temporarily American soldiers would staff air defense sites in Poland oriented toward Russia, and that the United States would be obliged to defend Poland in case of an attack with greater speed than required under NATO, of which Poland is a member.

Polish officials said the agreement would strengthen the mutual commitment of the United States to defend Poland, and vice versa. 'Poland and the Poles do not want to be in alliances in which assistance comes at some point later — it is no good when assistance comes to dead people,' the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, said on Polish television. 'Poland wants to be in alliances where assistance comes in the very first hours of — knock on wood — any possible conflict.' . .

A senior Pentagon official described an unusual part of this quid pro quo: an American Patriot battery would be moved from Germany to Poland, where it would be operated by a crew of about 100 American military personnel members. The expenses would be shared by both nations. American troops would join the Polish military, at least temporarily, at the front lines — facing east toward Russia."

WTF?

Did W. run this by congress before we signed up for this? US troops will not only be now facing Russia directly with patriot missile batteries but they also have to join the Polish army?

And as if all of this isn't bad enough, Reuters reported yesterday the Russians are mixing it up with Ukraine now, too.

"Widening the diplomatic fallout, Moscow clashed with Georgia's ally Ukraine over the movements of the Russian Black Sea fleet, which is based in the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol. Both Ukraine and Georgia are in line to become NATO members at some point in the future, to Russia's displeasure.

Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko signed a decree ordering Russian warships to obtain permission before entering or leaving base. The move angered Russian leaders, who regard Ukraine as a former Soviet satellite which should obey orders.

'We have one general commander for the Black Sea fleet. It is the president of Russia. And all commands from outside are illegitimate to us,' Russian Colonel-General Anatoly Nagovitsyn told a news conference in Moscoow."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080814/ts_nm/georgia_ossetia_dc_118

Who to nuke first? Decisions, decisions.

And what does our presideunce have to say about all of this?

He's 'gone fishin'.'



http://www.oddjack.com/gambling/cindy-sheehan/index.php

[Javaman]

1. Putin, "we'll nuke your heads off!!!!!" nt

[nickn777]

2. Sadly the Russians are reverting to their old ways....

What started with so much promise 15 years ago is beginning to spiral out of control. I feel sad for the Russian people, who I am sure, do not prefer this.

[Andy823]

3. I feel sad for our soldiers!

Once again Bush is going to put them in harms way for no good reason. Bush is no better than the Russian leaders. He invaded Iraq for no other reason than to steal their oil, and over 4,000 our our soldiers have died, and many more wounded, not to mention the untold number of innocent Iraq civilians, men, women and children that have died. Now he is trying to piss of Russia! The man has no brains at all!

[nickn777]

6. Oh I agree....

I was never for the Iraq war, but the Russian situation seems far more troubling to me. Verbal threats of nuclear attack, brutalization of a neighboring country that went far beyond attacks on military targets...these are not good signs....this behavior is primitive, savage, and has no part in the 21st century.

[bahrbearian]

4. I'm pretty sure that Russia is against Genocide of its citizens.

Where we are what?

[bushmeister0]

5. I wonder what they actually prefer?

Putin's has such a strangle hold over the media, who's to say what they even know the half of what he's up to.

I do know, he's an expert at exploiting their infiriority complex over not being a super power any more.

[arendt]

7. Yeah, keep kicking a psycho in the nuts, and he will eventually revert. Mission accomplished. n/t

[ljm2002]

12. You should read Pat Buchanan's article on this...

...where he notes, correctly, the looting of Russia by modern-day carpetbaggers (egged on by the neocons), that was reminiscent of what happened to Germany after WWI -- and that contributed materially to WWII.

The neocons are very fond of telling the rest of us about "personal responsibility" and that "actions have consequences". They are not so fond of acknowledging their own responsibility, or the consequences of their own actions.

Of course this is not what the Russian people want. It is not what the majority of people on the planet want. Most of us would prefer to live in peace, to compete in the arenas of commerce and ideas -- but not to the point where millions starve on a planet that could easily feed all of us.

But none of that matters. The idiots in control want shooting wars, and they start them from time to time. Keeps the peons in line, makes sure the population gets riled up agin' furriners, and makes the ruling classes oodles and oodles of money.

[LSK]

13. WHAT?!?!?!?!? YOU MEAN WE HAVE!!!

:wtf:

[Hannah Bell]

15. oh, right.

[Bluebear]

8. Putin would NEVER do that. Bush looked into his eyes and saw a good soul.

:crazy:

[bdamomma]

9. I thought Poland said no to missile defense shield

or did the Poles get a offer from Rove on his way to Georgia.

[bushmeister0]

14. I think they got a load of Russia's behavior in Georgia and reconsidered.

If they think the US is actually going to be able to move into protect them before they're vaporized, though . . .

I mean, Patriots only tend to shoot down our planes, not the enemy's missiles.

[arendt]

17. RIght. Let's whitewash the Polish secret CIA torture chambers, the abortion crackdown...

the Poles are against the Russians. So, who cares what kind of people they are?

This is how we got in bed with all those slimy people in the Cold War.

arendt

[magellan]

24. And that wasn't coincidental. n/t

[MadrasT]

10. WTF, indeed

"Did W. run this by congress before we signed up for this?" :rofl:

[DFW]

11. This is all such BS

I have Russian friends who want no part of this whole saber-rattling routine, on
either side. The missile thing could even be intelligently argued if the Bushies
had their heads on straight. Missiles fly at very high speeds. Anti-missile systems
based in Poland could never react in time to stop a missile attack from western Russia.
They might be able to react in time to stop a missile attack out of Iran, because we'd
have the few minutes we'd need after detecting a launch from that far away. But so what?
If Iran is going to launch nuclear missile at us, we'd wipe them out in no time flat,
and they know that, so they won't, and we know that, too. So, what do we need it for?
To stop a missile attack from Russia? Been there, done that. The Russians have seen with
their oil that they can conquer more quickly and bloodlessly with money. The Russians aren't
going to attack us either. That leaves the North Koreans, and if they send missiles at us,
it won't be via Poland.

So, why the missile defense? It's a feel-good move for the American right, and it will,
not coincidentally, make a few billion more for the companies that build them, which, not
coincidentally, tend to be heavy Republican contributors.

The Russians are getting their own domestic propaganda boost out of this, so they are
playing along, but realists on both sides are probably rolling their eyes.

[bushmeister0]

19. Maybe we should start calling the neocons the "neolunies"

Get this, from the Heritage Foundation:

"Despite the range of concerns about missile defense, it should be emphasized that missile defense is a defensive—not offensive—weapon. Indeed, the dominant design of the missile defense interceptor warhead does not even contain an explosive charge; traveling at 15,000 miles per hour, it destroys the missile warhead by the sheer force of the collision. Therefore, the idea that missile defense is an offensive system, as many have suggested, is patently false. In a way, missile defense is like an umbrella; it is only needed if it rains."

Nuclear war, nothing more than a bad thunder storm.

"In recent years, the United States decided that leaving itself deliberately vulnerable to any weapon system or state, as it did during the Cold War, was foolish. And rightfully so. Deliberate vulnerability can lead to perceptions of weakness, inviting provocation or aggression from another nation or transnational actor. In addition, being perceived as weak and vulnerable can lead a potential adversary to use threats, intimidation, 'blackmail' or coercion to achieve its objectives."

http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Debate:European_missile_defense

I hope that 'blackmal' isn't Africanized blackmail!

[nickn777]

16. I think the General should put down his bottle of vodka.

[treestar]

18. Baloney, do not fall for the Right Wing Media's obvious ploy

to bring the Russians back as perpetual enemy, the "Islamofascists" apparently having failed.

As soon as the USSR broke up, Poppy and the neocons started on Saddam and the Middle East as the new Hitler and Soviet Union. They managed to keep it up and 911 gave them free reign. Now that hasn't worked, they're back to the Russians.

The whole thing is a set up, meant to benefit McGeorgian, only the American people are sick and tired of wars, wars, and more wars. Only those who think their livelihood depends on constant war still support Bush and McBush (a good part of the 30% kook-aid drinkers).

[nickn777]

20. This is exactly why McShame will be elected....

the powers that be will ensure his victory, at any cost.

[treestar]

21. Do not say that on DU!

McShame will not be elected. Repeat, "McShame will lose." It works for the right wingers. They keep repeating it, and it's reality. Listen to Barack. We can do anything. Barack will be elected.

Picture in your mind:

The news announcers saying that Obama has been elected. Flash back to when Clinton was. Maybe their faces will be downcast, but we will enjoy that.

Picture Barack's acceptance speech.

Picture McChimp's concession.

Picture the inauguration. 1/20/09 End of an error.

[nickn777]

22. I don't want McShame elected either but....

i have a nervous feeling about this election....I think Obama should have been able to seal the deal by now, its way closer than it should be.

[treestar]

25. Why should any candidate in modern times seal the deal by

August 15? In fact, the attention span in this country is so poor, that a huge lead now would not be a guarantee of anything.

[bushmeister0]

23. NPR actually asking about McShame's exploiting Georgia for gain

and the whole Randy Scheunemann connection! Will wonders never cease?

"For McCain, the conflict between the former Soviet republic of Georgia and Russia, which ignited last week, has provided an opportunity to stress his foreign policy credentials — and turn the political focus to world affairs.

But as the week progressed, McCain began to face questions about whether he was using the crisis for political gain and about the and his origin of his ties to Georgia . . .

Everywhere he went, McCain stressed his knowledge of Georgia. He's been there, he said — and he knows President Mikhail Saakashvili well. In fact, McCain told the crowd in Pennsylvania that he had just been on the phone with the Georgian leader.

'And he wanted me to say thank you to you,' McCain said. 'To give you his heartfelt thanks for the support of the American people for this tiny little democracy, far away from the United States of America.'

As McCain pounded his message home, questions started to pop up. McCain's top foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, it turns out, was a lobbyist working for the nation of Georgia until this year. He's one reason McCain has had that contact with the Georgians, including Saakashvili, over the past several years.

Scheunemann briefed reporters on the plight of Georgia on McCain's campaign plane. Reporters were even given maps showing red lines that represented Russian military operations."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93631243

Great! I'm sure he's getting daily briefings from the pentagon, too.

Scheunemann's bio at Right Web:

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1347.html

[WeDidIt]

26. They finally figured it out

The "terror" bogeyman only lasted six years and people got over it.

so now, they're trying to start the cold war back up.

[truedelphi]

27. Has anyone explained to the Pole that we don't even provide help to OUR people

In times of conflict and crisis.

The Polish guy says:'Poland wants to be in alliances where assistance comes in the very first hours of — knock on wood — any possible conflict.'

Someone from New Orleans should help him understand what American help is all about.

It's nothing more than a bureaucratic situation that allows the "Good job, Brownie"s of the world to have fat salaries at tax payer expense.