Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Lieberman the reason the Dems are not impeaching?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:32 PM
Original message
Lieberman the reason the Dems are not impeaching?
Had a long conversation today with a friend about impeachment. He had an interesting theory I thought I would share. He said Lieberman is the key. My friend thinks Lieberman went to Pelosi and Reid and told them he would switch to the Republican party if they moved ahead on impeachment. And since that would cause the Democrats to lose the majority in the Senate, they caved in to him.

My friend also thinks it is possible that Lieberman threatened to change parties if Pelosi or Reid disclosed his threat.

He said we will know for sure if this is what happened once the new Senate is in place and the Democrats have a better majority. If Congress moves ahead on war crimes charges against Bush, this theory about Lieberman is correct. If they don't then it is not correct.

Anyhow, what do you all think? I thought it was an interesting theory.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. It'll be more fun to toss him out on his ass later.
That will be a happy day watching Joey LIEs standing alone and naked, the product of his own greed and sleaze.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think, due to GOP-instituted rules, that majority wouldn't change
regardless, until after the election at this point.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading that. So Joe wouldn't have any such hold over Reid and Pelosi in that case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yes, they changed the rules when they retook control
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 08:52 PM by Warpy
after Jeffords's defection handed all the committee chairmanships to the Democrats.

That defection is the reason we didn't lose Congres completely after the anthrax mailings. The razor thin Democratic majority refused to shut down the Senate.

The House was shut down by the GOP majority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I didn't realize that
Well, there goes my friend's theory. LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. A few links I found:
http://peacegarden.blogspot.com/2007/02/joey-gives-w-big-wet-one.html

Lieberman threatens party switch over Iraq debate
Senate Democrats appear ready to try and revoke the broad authority Congress gave President George W. Bush to launch his increasingly unpopular invasion of Iraq in 2003 but the escalating debate in Congress could change the balance of power in that legislative body. While Democratic leaders map out a strategy to seize control of the war from Bush, maverick pro-war Democrat Joe Lieberman is threatening to jump to the Republican side of the aisle, effectively turning control of the Senate over to the GOP.



http://davidsirota.com/index.php/2007/02/26/why-lieberman-should-go-exhibit-a/
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/26/lieberman-block-iraq/

Why Lieberman Should Go - Exhibit A
Last week, I touched off some controversy with a post saying that Democrats should say good riddance to Joe Lieberman and not care if he caucused with Republicans. I said that not only because it won’t actually shift effective control of the Senate to Republicans, but because keeping him caucusing with Democrats is too high an electoral and policy price to pay. Why? Because he has made it clear that his price of Democratic unity is Democrats doing nothing real to stop the Iraq War. Such a price could mean A) major electoral losses for Democrats in 2008 because they were elected in 2006 to end the war and B) a continuation of a destructive war that is destabilizing U.S. national security. Now, for those who didn’t really believe Lieberman’s price would be Democratic complicity in Bush’s Iraq policy, we have today’s dispatch from National Journal.

Here’s the excerpt via Thinkprogress:
Lieberman is making it clear he does not want Iraq-related amendments attached to a bill scheduled for floor action this week that would implement unfulfilled recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. Democratic leaders seemed inclined today to hold off introducing Iraq-related amendments to the bill, possibly to avoid upsetting Lieberman and moving him closer to switching party affiliations, which would swing the Senate back to GOP control.
So there you have it - Democrats are now refusing to do anything real on Iraq specifically because they are trying to keep Lieberman from caucusing with Republicans. That’s too high a price, and that’s why I again reiterate that Lieberman needs to go.
COMMENTS: Go to Sirota's Working Assets site to comment on this entry




http://mediamatters.org/items/200702240001

Fri, Feb 23, 2007 8:07pm ET
Send to a friend Print Version
Media ignore Lieberman's pledge not to switch parties

Several media outlets, including The Politico, ABCNews.com, Fox News' Special Report and The Washington Times, reported on Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman's (CT) statement in the March 5 issue of Time magazine that there is a "very remote possibility" he will stop caucusing with Senate Democrats, but failed to note Lieberman's repeated pre-election promises to the voters of Connecticut that he would caucus with Democrats. Additionally, The Politico and Special Report inaccurately reported that Lieberman's decision to caucus with the other party would "give control of the back to the Republicans." In fact, in order to change the makeup of committees and their chairmen, as well as the president pro tempore, the Republicans would have to pass new organizing rules, which could be filibustered by the Democrats.
In a February 22 article, Editor & Publisher reported that Lieberman is quoted in the March 5 issue of Time acknowledging "a remote possibility" that he will "jump[] to the Republican side." But as blogger Greg Sargent noted, on October 3, 2006, The Empire Zone, The New York Times' weblog about politics in New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut, quoted Lieberman promising: "I've given my word that's what I intend to do. I am going to caucus with the Democrats." Prior to his August 2006 loss in the Democratic primary but while collecting signatures for his independent bid, Lieberman told New York Magazine: "I've been a Democrat for 40 years, I'll die a Democrat, I'll probably be a Democrat after my death, I may still be voting Democrat in some cities in Connecticut postmortem." Sargent compiled additional examples of Lieberman or his communications staff promising that he would caucus with the Democrats. Further, in October 2006, blogger spazeboy posted a video in which Lieberman is asked the question: "Would you unequivocally ... caucus with the Democrats?" Lieberman responded: "I've said that 1,200 times." When asked to clarify with a "yes or no" answer, Lieberman responded: "Yes. Yes."

As The Washington Post reported on January 5, Republicans would not be able to automatically reorganize the Senate if Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD) were replaced with a Republican, effectively the same scenario as Lieberman caucusing with the Republicans:

Republican leaders decided not to seek special language spelling out the terms of a transition in case of a power shift -- say, if Johnson vacates his post and his state's GOP governor appoints a Republican to replace him. Under that scenario, power would effectively shift to Republicans, because Cheney would provide the tiebreaking 51st vote. But for Republicans to take parliamentary control, the Senate would have to vote for new organizational rules, a move Democrats could filibuster.

A similar scenario unfolded in January 2001, when a 50-50 Senate convened. In 2001, Democrats demanded a "kick-out clause" in organizing negotiations that would automatically scrap agreements on committee ratios and funding levels and force new organizational rules. But Republicans decided this month against a confrontation that would come from demanding a similar clause.

"Nobody over here talked about that at all," said Don Stewart, spokesman for McConnell.

Daily Kos diarist alba recently noted the section in the 107th Congress' (2001-2003) Senate organizing rules S.R. 8, which constituted the "kick-out clause":

f at any time during the 107th Congress either party attains a majority of the whole number of Senators, then each committee ratio shall be adjusted to reflect the ratio of the parties in the Senate, and the provisions of this resolution shall have no further effect, except that the members appointed by the two Leaders, pursuant to this resolution, shall no longer be members of the committees, and the committee chairmanships shall be held by the party which has attained a majority of the whole number of Senators.

As alba further noted, the resolutions for the current Senate's organizing rules contain no such provision.
Washington Post columnist Al Kamen noted that in the 83rd Congress (1953-1955), Republicans started with a one-vote majority, but because of the deaths of Republican senators, Democrats briefly had a two-vote advantage -- and yet control did not change. Kamen noted that Senate associate historian Donald A. Ritchie said that even with the two-vote advantage, there was " 'no way the Democrats could have claimed a majority ... because the Republicans could have blocked them' with a filibuster, and in the Senate, most everything can be filibustered -- even by the minority."
From the article in the March 5 edition of Time:

The Democrats' 2000 candidate for Vice President is the only party member in the Senate supporting President Bush's Iraq policy and says he is "very troubled about the direction the party is heading on foreign policy generally." With his re-election in November, many old allies now rue abandoning him after he lost the Connecticut Democratic primary to Ned Lamont last August. Both sides concede that bitterness remains. "It's still a little painful and awkward," says the majority whip, Dick Durbin, "but I think the caucus counts him as a friend."

Lieberman says leaving the Democratic Party is a "very remote possibility." But even that slight ambiguity -- and all his cross-aisle flirtation -- has proved more than enough to position Lieberman as the Senate's one-man tipping point. If he were to jump ship, the ensuing shift of power to Republicans would scramble the politics of the war in Iraq, undercut the Democrats' national agenda and potentially weaken their hopes for the White House in 2008. Those stakes are high enough to give Lieberman leverage with both parties no matter how slim the chance of his crossing the aisle. Which means Senate leaders aren't worrying only about whether Joe Lieberman will switch parties. They're wondering what, if anything, he plans to do with the power that comes from keeping that possibility alive.

From the February 22 article in The Politico:
He suggested, however, that the forthcoming showdown over new funding could be a deciding factor that would lure him to the Republican Party.

"I hope we don't get to that point," Lieberman said. "That's about all I will say on it today. That would hurt."
Republicans have long targeted Lieberman to switch -- a move that would give them control of the Senate. And Time magazine is set to report Friday that there is a "remote" chance Lieberman would join the GOP.

From the February 22 ABCNews.com blog post:
While the website Politico.com has the blaring, saucy, and eye-catching headline "Breaking News: Lieberman says war vote could prompt party switch," the statement by Lieberman that he won't rule out a party switch does not signify that he is packing his bags and heading across the aisle in the Senate.

A Lieberman staffer told ABC today, "Lieberman's words speak for themselves. It is a very remote possibility. Senator Lieberman has no desire to change parties. He has no desire to change parties."

Not making a "Sherman statement" (as Al Gore would say in also not closing the door on his unlikely 2008 Presidential run) is not a new tactic for Lieberman. He told Time Russert on "Meet the Press" back in November after the mid-term election that he wouldn't rule out changing parties as Vermont Republican Jim Jeffords had done in 2001 when he became an Independent, temporarily giving Democrats control of the Senate.

From the February 22 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume:
HUME: Thanks, Molly. Thanks very much. There are signs tonight that Senator Joe Lieberman might reconsider his decision to remain a Democrat. Lieberman told the newspaper The Politico that while he has no immediate plans to switch parties, the Democrats' opposition to funding the war in Iraq, a war Lieberman supports, could change his mind.
If Lieberman did switch, the Senate would be split 50-50 between the two parties, and Vice President Cheney would cast the tie-breaking vote to give control of the chamber back to the Republicans.

From the February 23 Washington Times column "Inside Politics":
Sen. Joe Lieberman, Connecticut independent but a member of the Democratic caucus, last month told Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada that he had stopped attending the weekly Democratic lunch because he didn't feel comfortable discussing Iraq there, Time magazine reports in its issue out today.

Mr. Reid offered to hold those discussions at another time, Time reporter Massimo Calabresi said, and "Lieberman has started attending again."

Republicans, the magazine says, are "courting him" and Mr. Lieberman "has been indulging in some fairly immodest political footsie." Mr. Lieberman said a party switch is "a remote possibility," and that he keeps in touch with Bush aide Stephen J. Hadley "every week or two."

The Time article was summarized yesterday at the Web site of Editor & Publisher magazine, www.editorandpublisher.com.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Can't be true because
the agreement in the current Senate is that if someone switches, the Democrats still maintain control of committees and everything else important by virtue of being in the majority even though they would not be the majority. I think it's something that came out of the Jim Jeffords thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Congress cannot
"move ahead" on "war crime" charges. They could, in theory, still impeach Bush (for violations of US law and/or abuses of the power of office) after he leaves office, but it would be a bit less than meaningless at that point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Why can't they pursue war crimes charges?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Because Congress cannot,
ever, prosecute any case. Prosecution is part of the criminal justice system. In federal cases, that is done by the Department of Justice. Congress can only impeach, which is a civil trial. There is no prosecutor in a civil case.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. So a Democratic president who appoints a Democratic AG
is the answer?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. That's one possibility.
The single best chance we have right now is that one of the 50 state attorney generals, or ant "local" district attorney, will accept Vincent Bugliosi's offer to help prosecute George W. Bush for murder. That is actually more likely, I think, than that the US Attorney General would.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. I've actually heard from another person working with one of the Pres.
Candidates who had to drop out, or "lose his congressional seat".. that the threat is bombing Iran the moment they proceed with Impeachment proceedings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I heard that too
I also heard the opposite. That Bush was told he would be impeached if he bombed Iran.

So he is starting a war in Georgia instead!! :scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I'm not sure.. I'm sure there is movement both ways.. they are just
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 08:57 PM by glowing
threatening each other. But really Bush and Pelosi just look way too cozy in pictures for me to believe that's the true line. I'm sure that's what she says to the progressives.. and I'm sure she uses that against the Repigs when she wants them to do something..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. She keeps bringing up the numbers
Have you noticed that? Every time she talks about impeachment she mentions they don't have enough Dems in the Senate. That's why I thought my friend's theory was interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinstonSmith4740 Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. There's no doubt in my mind...
That's probably the first thing he told both of them when this session convened. I just figured he threatened to do it EVERY time he wanted his own way. I can't remember if I read it here at DU, or over at Huffington Post, but Pelosi pretty much came out and said the Dems are ready to hand Joe his hat if they get a real majority in November. I'm as frustrated as the rest of you with the lack of aggressiveness on Reid & Pelosi's part, but I think Joe had them hog-tied. I'm gonna be almost as glad to see him get his butt handed to him as seeing Junior go!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. But Lieberman has in effect switched his loyalty to the rePUKES and BushCo
...so based on that early action Pelosi and Reid should have gone ahead with impeachment, yet they have not to date. There goes that theory!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. LOL
Slam bam - there you have it! :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Domestic surveillance - mission accomplished.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't think this is a theory. I have heard it before.
Personally, I don't think it should make a difference. Doing the right thing should be the duty of both parties. If Lieberman wants to throw his lot in with the devil, so be it. If there were impeachment hearings, the evidence is really so damning that most moderate Republicans would have to take notice and not be able to ignore the facts anymore. It would be damaging to their careers. I believe it really has a lot to do with the fact that many Congressmen and Senators from both sides of the aisle might find themselves also under indictment once the truth starts coming out. This is the real reason there is no impeachment. The corruption in Washington is very widespread and very deep.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. this man needs to be arrested as a traitor to this country
and the people who voted for him For Shame For Shame
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
20. I've Heard Similar Rumors As Well
One was from a "conservative" Jewish group...very pro-Lieberman, who said following the '06 elections that Lieberman would only vote for Reid if he agreed to the "organizational" order that led to having the 60 vote cloture rule invoked on almost every bill...but at least the Democrats would control the agenda. The "compromise" was that Lieberman would not allow another Scalito on the court. The alternative would have been a 50-50 Senate with Crashcart having the final vote...Reid, in his naive "wisdom" felt he'd rather have traitor Joe as that swing vote, not Crashcart.

Joementum didn't threaten to change parties as much as not vote...that would have created a deadlock Crashcart would have voted to give Pruneface McConnell the leadership and the ability to steamroll legislation through. Sounds like he wasn't offered senority to switch and used his leverage by staying in the caucus and duping Reid into believing he would vote with the Democrats more time than he would cross over. What Reid didn't seem to think out was how those cloture votes would work out...Joementum never promised on those.

Here's hoping Gramps goes down to a crashing defeat and there's a healthy Democratic majority in the Senate...then Joementum gets back benched...losing both chairmanships and senority...becoming truly an "independent". Serves the traitor right.

Cheers...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. When did Congress become the executive branch?
How can they prosecute anyone of a crime?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. Her unpardonable corruption is already on the record. A corrupt bargain with
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 01:41 PM by pat_k
. . .with Reid would just be more of the same.

Members of Congress took an oath to support and defend. Under threat of court-martial we hold the men and women of our armed services to that oath, even when doing so means death. Why should we expect less from the men and women we send to Congress?

When the Constitution is under attack from within the executive or judiciary, the ONLY way to defend it is to accuse the attackers and call on the Senate to remove them.

What Pelosi is doing is worse then dereliction. She is abusing her power to make sure that the massive power of the American Presidency remains in the hands of outlaws and torturers.

Pelosi readily tells us that she is abusing her power because she fears that defending the Constitution would risk Democratic electoral victories. That is unpardonable corruption. Entering into a corrupt bargain with Reid to retain Democratic control of the Senate (if the theory proves to be true) is just an extension of the corruption she admits.

(Tragically for Pelosi, her actions are not only corrupt, they are doing the OPPOSITE of what she seeks. Refusing to impeach is destroying, not helping, the Democratic Party.)

Like it or not, Pelosi's corruption is more destructive to the nation than the crimes bushncheney commit.

Criminals, whether they occupy the White House or your neighbor's house, can't destroy a nation. Only the corruption of those we charge with enforcing the law can do that. With the power to impeach we made Congress -- our Voice -- the ultimate enforcer. The duty to defend the nation by removing corrupt or derelict officials in the other branches is theirs.

Of course, it is not too late for her to redeem herself. Articles of impeachment for putting torture "on the table" -- the most unpardonable and well known of their crimes against Federal law, as well as the most damaging to our nation's moral standing and security -- could be on their way to the Senate in a day.

She wouldn't even need to miss her precious Sept 26th target date to adjourn for the year.

Even if you believe there is no hope for Pelosi's redemption. Even if you believe Conyers will remain committed to sanctioning lawlessness, torture, and authoritarian rule. We can make impeachment a reality.

Nadler has the power to kick them in the ass and put impeachment front and center. Go after him. Go after his staffers.

Don't stop http://talkingimpeachment.com">TalkingImpeachment.

Don't allow them to stop http://talkingimpeachment.comxx">TalkingImpeachment.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. The numbers aren't there...
They might be able to impeach in the house, but a conviction would never happen in the senate. That wouldn't get bush out of the WH. Your friend is wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC