Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

American Troops Training Equip Georgian Military **LET'S REMEMBER**Did the U.S. Prep Georgia for war

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:11 PM
Original message
American Troops Training Equip Georgian Military **LET'S REMEMBER**Did the U.S. Prep Georgia for war
Edited on Sun Aug-10-08 02:27 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43997



WASHINGTON, May 30, 2002 – Improving the Georgian military will ultimately aid the American war on global terrorism, the Georgia Train and Equip Program commander said today in a telephone interview.
U.S. Army Lt. Col. Robert Waltemeyer spoke to Pentagon reporters from the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. He said 70 American service members, most of them noncommissioned officers, are in the former Soviet republic on a 21-month mission.

"We are here to help the Georgian armed forces improve their ability to maintain stability and sovereignty in this region, which would obviously deny safe haven to any of those types of terrorist organizations that would seek safe haven or transit through this region," he said.

Georgia has been the focus of international attention because of persistent reports of al Qaeda terrorists hiding in the country's Pankisi Gorge. Waltemeyer said his troops have no intention of going near the gorge themselves, but they're preparing the Georgian troops to operate in "Pankisi-like conditions."

The U.S. Defense Department is spending about $64 million to train and equip four specialized battalions, one company-sized team, and about 200 staff officers in Georgia. The training will be conducted in four phases that will target each unit's specific mission, including air- mobile commandos, and light, mountain and mechanized infantry, Waltemeyer said.

One challenge facing the Georgian armed forces has been common in the militaries of the former Soviet republics: They need to build a professional noncommissioned officer corps.

Waltemeyer explained that most American trainers on this mission are NCOs, specifically to expose the Georgians to their maturity, professionalism and expertise. He said he made it clear to Georgia's military leaders at the outset that American NCOs are "the backbone of our military force in the United States, and that's how they were going to be applied here."

The Georgians, he said, are also particularly interested in the American tradition of civilian control of the military and in how the U.S. defense establishment apportions the military budget among the services.

The American team is providing small arms and personal uniforms and equipment to the Georgian military, but only enough live ammunition to complete this training program. "Each and every bullet is matched to a firing table for each and every exercise that they'll be participating in," Waltemeyer said. "We're not leaving war stocks here."

He said he's impressed by the Georgian officers' commitment to this training program. "They've been active, engaged and enthusiastic, and rather demanding to learn this U.S. approach to developing, maintaining, training and sustaining a national force from the top down to the tactical level," he said.

The Georgian officers have even asked for extra classes, tutoring and focus-group discussions on the weekend. "Their interest, frankly, is inspirational to an instructor," Waltemeyer said.




http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/did-us-military.html

Georgia and Russia are careening towards war. And the U.S. isn't exactly a detached observer in the fight. The American military has been training and equipping Georgian troops for years.

The news thus far: Georgia, which has been locked in a drone war over the separatist enclave of Abkhazia, has launched an offensive to reclaim another breakaway territory, South Ossetia. Latest reports indicate that Georgian forces are laying siege to Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. And Russia, which has backed the separatists, is sending in the tanks.

So why should we care? Oh, just the prospect of a larger regional war that could drag in Russia – and involve the United States as well. Since early 2002, the U.S. government has given a healthy amount of military aid to Georgia. When I last visited South Ossetia, Georgian troops manned a checkpoint outside Tskhinvali -- decked out in surplus U.S. Army uniforms and new body armor.

The first U.S. aid came under the rubric of the Georgia Train and Equip Program (ostensibly to counter alleged Al Qaeda influence in the Pankisi Gorge); then, under the Sustainment and Stability Operations Program. Georgia returned the favor, committing thousands of troops to the multi-national coalition in Iraq. Last fall, the Georgians doubled their contingent, making them the third-largest contributor to the coalition. Not bad for a nation of 4.6 million people.

Leaving aside the question of Russian interference (see below), the larger concern has been that Georgia might be tempted to use its newfound military prowess to resolve domestic conflicts by force.

As Sergei Shamba, the foreign affairs minister of Abkhazia, told me in 2006: “The Georgians are euphoric because they have been equipped, trained, that they have gained military experience in Iraq. It feeds this revanchist mood… How can South Ossetia be demilitarized, when all of Georgia is bristling with weaponry, and it’s only an hour’s ride by tank from Tbilisi to Tskhinvali?”
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wonder if anyone said to Georgia
We have no opinion on what you do with South Ossetia? :crazy:





5 hours ago: Wounded South Ossetians stay in a hospital shelter in the South Ossetian capital of Tshinvali, August 10, 2008. Russian troops took most of the capital of the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia on Sunday after a three-day battle but the United States condemned Moscow's "dangerous and disproportionate" action. Russia poured troops and tanks across its southern border into tiny Georgia and bombed Georgian targets after Tbilisi attempted on Thursday evening to retake South Ossetia, a small pro-Russian province which broke away from Georgia in the 1990s.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I wonder if anyone said to Russia,
we have no opinion on what you do with Georgia?

I think when this thing ends, there will be plenty of blame to go around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. but do do that we have used that ploy once before
Edited on Sun Aug-10-08 02:58 PM by seemslikeadream
and Saddam fell for it and invaded Kuwait
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Jr.'s not a real fast learner. He tends to get his mind stuck. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. U.S. troops start training exercise in Georgia
http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=28783276&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281


ANI, Georgia, July 15 (Reuters) - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighbouring Russia.

Officials said the exercise, called "Immediate Response 2008", had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia.

The United States is an ally of Georgia and has irritated Russia by backing Tbilisi's bid to join the NATO military alliance.

"The main purpose of these exercises is to increase the cooperation and partnership between U.S. and Georgian forces," Brigadier General William B. Garrett, commander of the U.S. military's Southern European Task Force, told reporters.

The war games involve 600 Georgian troops and smaller numbers from ex-Soviet Armenia, Azerbaijan and Ukraine.

The two-week exercise was taking place at the Vaziani military base near the capital Tbilisi, which was a Russian air force base until Russian forces withdrew at the start of this decade under a European arms reduction agreement.

Georgia and the Pentagon cooperate closely. Georgia has a 2,000-strong contingent supporting the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, and Washington provides training and equipment to the Georgian military.

Georgia last week recalled its ambassador in Moscow in protest at Russia sending fighter jets into Georgian airspace. Tbilisi urged the West to condemn Russia's actions.

Russia said the flights were to prevent Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili from launching a military operation against the separatist South Ossetia region.

Moscow accuses Saakashvili of preparing to restore Tbilisi's control over South Ossetia and the second breakaway region of Abkhazia by force. Tbilisi says that is a pretext for Russia to effectively annexe large chunks of Georgian territory.

Source: Reuters North American News Service
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. 3 weeks before the Georgian's launch a surprise attack, the U.S. is "training"
troops there. Hmm... funny how that works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Red flags anyone? anyone?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Fog of War and the "Drive By Media"
http://www.russiablog.org/2008/08/predictably_in_the_wake_of.php

CNN briefly portrayed Russia as the big red USSR while showing Americans where South Ossetia and Georgia are on the world map. Hugh Hewitt, one of the most popular conservative talk radio show hosts in America, cited a report on the air from Austin-based Strategic Forecasting Inc. asserting that Russia was using the Georgia campaign to intimidate all of the former Soviet republics. The report, Hewitt seemed to imply, suggested a master plan by the Kremlin to revive at least a rump Soviet Union through military might. Hugh Hewitt's guest, Larry Kudlow, a popular conservative commentator who hosts the highly watched "Kudlow and Company" TV show on CNBC, denounced "Czar Putin's power grab" and called Russian leaders "war criminals". A news announcer on the same national talk radio network erroneously reported that Russian forces had killed 1,400 people in the region, even though this was actually the number claimed by the South Ossetians as victims of Georgian shelling and bombs. Headlines on AOL news said, "Russia Invades Small Neighbor", which makes for a more dog bites man headline than, "Russia puts troops into small region invaded by former Soviet republic asserting sovereignty over disputed territory". The U.S. taxpayer funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty website published a ridiculous article by Echo Moskvy radio's Yulia Latynina, calling South Ossetia a "terrorist state" and comparing the region to the PLO or Hezbollah statelets in southern Lebanon -- as if the South Ossetians were sending suicide bombers and rockets into Georgia.

Why Do American Conservatives Uncritically Accept Media Coverage Of One But Not the Other?

All of this begs the question: why do so many Americans, conservatives especially, who normally proclaim their distrust the media, accept it so unquestioningly on the subject of Russia? After all, it isn't as if the same biases that lead many Americans to confess to pollsters that they have Obama fatigue from so many puff profiles of the superstar Democratic presidential candidate do not also affect coverage of foreign affairs in the U.S. In other words, a media tendency to focus on compelling personalities, like Vladimir Putin, rather than report on a complex country like Russia from the bottom up.

A Different View of Russia from Up Close

Not surprisingly, European papers in Germany and other places on the Continent, closer to Russia both geographically and economically, have been more willing to take a balanced view of the conflict than the Anglo-American media. The intellectually lazy, bipartisan Beltway party line that this war represents yet another case of "Russia bullying its neighbors" tends to prevail in U.S. commentary and analysis, rather than the idea that President Saakashvili may have grossly miscalculated by underestimating Russian resolve, or even thought that he had a green light from Washington to use force. It would not be the first time a U.S. ally, as in the case of Argentina's ill-advised invasion of the British Falkland Islands in 1982, caused a major headache for Washington.

Failure to Ask Hard Questions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. European and Ango American interests are different
Not surprisingly, European papers in Germany and other places on the Continent, closer to Russia both geographically and economically, have been more willing to take a balanced view of the conflict than the Anglo-American media.

The UK and US are interested in Georgia as a corridor through which the Anglo-American oil companies can extract crude oil from the deposits around the Caspian Sea, and have it enter the sea borne oil trade via Turkish ports. The Anglo American companies dominate the sea borne oil trade.

The Europeans are dependent on both the Anglo-American corporations and the Russians for their oil imports. France and Italy have oil companies but they are minor. So the Europeans are not interested in alienating the Russians and jeopardizing the Russian supply. Nor are they particularly interested in improving the monopoly position of the Anglo-American companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. such a move would aggravate the already difficult situation in the Caucasus region.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/02/27/georgia.planes/

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Up to 200 U.S. troops could be headed to the former Soviet republic of Georgia to help train and equip its military against terrorism threats, U.S. military officials said.

But a top Russian official said on Wednesday that such a move would aggravate the already difficult situation in the Caucasus region.

The arrival of U.S. troops in Georgia would mark a further expansion of the war against terrorism by the United States, which has been fighting terrorists in Afghanistan and is providing training to the Philippine government in its battle against Muslim rebels.

No final decision has been made to enact the plan, but the effort could occur in a matter of weeks, U.S. military officials said. The troops could include Special Forces. Ten UH-1H Huey helicopters are being provided, military officials say, and they are largely used for transporting troops and gear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. US troops train Georgians amid tension July 21, 2008

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=105&sid=1444158
US troops train Georgians amid tension
July 21, 2008 - 1:44pm


U.S. and Georgian soldiers participate in a situational tactical exercise that provides scenarios to prepare soldiers for real life situations they may encounter in Iraq, during U.S.-Georgian military training exercise at Vaziani base outside Tbilisi, Georgia, Friday, July 18, 2008. (AP Photo/Cliff Patrick) By DOUGLAS BIRCH and MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI
Associated Press Writers

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) - President Mikhail Saakashvili praised a joint military training program involving more than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers at a former Soviet base Monday, amid heightened tensions with Moscow.

The effort, involving 600 Georgian troops, shows that Georgia has "the best trained and equipped army" in the strategic Caucasus mountain region, Saakashvili said in comments broadcast on Georgian television.

While the exercise was planned months ago, it followed sporadic clashes between Georgians and separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, breakaway regions closely tied to Russia. And it comes amid friction over Georgia's bid for NATO membership, viewed by Moscow as hostile.

Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq _ making it the third largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain _ but plans to end the Iraq operation by the end of this year.So far, five Georgian soldiers have died in the conflict.

Marine Capt. James Haunty, 30, of Columbus, Ohio, commander of Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines, said Friday that he was keeping an eye on the simmering conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

"I'm not concerned about anything serious happening as long as there are U.S. troops here in Georgia," Haunty said, shortly before 50-caliber machine gun bullets began peppering a hillside at the Vaziani training complex, about 6 miles (10 kilometers) east of the capital. "But we still will monitor the situation."

The U.S. soldiers, Marines and airmen arrived in Tbilisi in mid-July to teach combat skills to Georgian soldiers, as well as 30 troops from Armenia, Azerbaijan and Ukraine. The program, called Exercise Immediate Response 2008, includes simulated attacks from roadside bombs and other challenges troops might expect in Iraq, Haunty said.

Lance Cpl. Jonah Salyers, 23, of Columbus, Ohio, a Marine reservist, said it was his first trip outside of the United States and conceded that he might not have been able to find the republic of Georgia on a map.

"I could have found the state, I'll tell you that," he said Friday.

Pointing to the snowcapped Caucasus mountains to the north, Salyers said: "Obviously the countryside is absolutely beautiful."

Cpl. Georgi Adaze, 21, who joined Georgia's 4th Infantry Brigade seven months ago, said he enjoyed working with the American troops. "I am ready to serve my country and get military experience," he said, in an interview closely monitored by two Georgian military officers.

Georgia, which was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union, has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership _ a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.

In January, Georgian defense officials began to phase out use of the Russian-designed Kalashnikov rifle and introduce the American M-16. Georgian troops were training mostly with American weapons on two gunnery ranges Friday. Many NATO countries use the M-16.

Georgia's government also decided earlier this year to increase the size of its armed forces from about 32,000 to 37,000.

Russia, meanwhile, has strengthened ties in recent months to the two Georgian separatist regions, which Saakashvili has pledged to bring back under Tbilisi's control. No U.N. member state recognizes Abkhazia or South Ossetia's claims to sovereignty.

The current round of tensions have led to clashes in recent months between Georgian authorities and separatists, including a July 9 skirmish on Abkhazia's de-facto border that injured two Abkhaz separatist troops and three Georgian policemen.

Russian fighter jets circled over South Ossetia during a visit to Tbilisi by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice earlier this month. Later, Georgia threatened to shoot down any Russian planes that violated its air space.

The same day Immediate Response began, the Russian military announced that it had launched its own military training exercise in its nearby North Caucasus region. A spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry denied there was any connection between those exercises and the U.S.-Georgian training effort.


(Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)
also on wtopnews.com
Russia expands Georgia blitz, deploys ships
Abkhazia sends army to drive out Georgian troops
Iraq demands 'clear timeline' for US withdrawal
US troops train Georgians amid tension

also on the web
Georgian President: Russia aiming to take over Georgia
2014 Winter Games officials questioned on fighting
Tbilisi airport area reportedly bombed second time
US wants urgent UN call for ceasefire in South Ossetia
The Russian riddle

By DOUGLAS BIRCH and MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI
Associated Press Writers

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) - President Mikhail Saakashvili praised a joint military training program involving more than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers at a former Soviet base Monday, amid heightened tensions with Moscow.

The effort, involving 600 Georgian troops, shows that Georgia has "the best trained and equipped army" in the strategic Caucasus mountain region, Saakashvili said in comments broadcast on Georgian television.

While the exercise was planned months ago, it followed sporadic clashes between Georgians and separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, breakaway regions closely tied to Russia. And it comes amid friction over Georgia's bid for NATO membership, viewed by Moscow as hostile.

Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq _ making it the third largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain _ but plans to end the Iraq operation by the end of this year.So far, five Georgian soldiers have died in the conflict.

Marine Capt. James Haunty, 30, of Columbus, Ohio, commander of Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines, said Friday that he was keeping an eye on the simmering conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R!!! Thanks, SLAD!
:loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. decked out in surplus U.S. Army uniforms and new body armor.
Edited on Sun Aug-10-08 02:38 PM by seemslikeadream
:hi:



new body armor
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. In conventional battle, most deaths are from artillery
I'm not sure that body armor does much good against artillery fire.

Furthermore, it is only useful if you have excellent field medical care and transport to the rear medical facilities to take care of the badly injured. Otherwise, soldiers that survive due to body armor and are wounded are just a burden in the field.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. . .
:eyes::freak::eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Georgian troops are only too happy to have the world's best equipped military here to help.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2249677.stm




"By training these units we are helping them to prevent these type of safe havens and provide security for the region."

Investment

The Georgian troops are only too happy to have the world's best equipped military here to help.

At an investment of more than $3,000 per man on kit alone, the US is providing more than just equipment and tactical advice.

Decked out in US army fatigues with bulging kit bags strung around their waists, these young Georgian men are beginning to adopt the swagger of their American counterparts.

The US presence is beginning to restore a sense of pride in their military that many here feel has been lost during the decline of the last few years.

"The Green Berets are the best army in the world," says First Lt Lasha Beridze. "It is very nice having them here to train us."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. 35 are civilian contractors,
http://patdollard.com/2008/08/us-troops-ccontractors-in-georgia-not-believed-to-be-at-risk/



Who would have ever thought Georgia would use this so called training them for Iraq would be used for a war of their own, selfish bastards :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sometimes in April
Edited on Sun Aug-10-08 02:52 PM by JustAnotherGen
Human beings get used as pawns - cheap and expendable ones - so evil men can flip humanity the bird, feed their egos, and pad their pockets. Sad fact is - most folks don't understand what NATO was set up for. :-(

So April 4 years ago:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3591315.stm


Nato marks its eastward expansion
All of the new Nato members were part of the former communist bloc
Nato has been holding a ceremony to welcome seven former communist eastern European countries as members of the 55-year-old alliance.
The flags of Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia were raised for the first time at the Nato headquarters in Brussels.

It is the biggest ever expansion of Nato - set up in 1949 to defend western Europe against the Soviet Union.

The new countries joined Nato this week, taking the membership to 26.

The three Baltic republics, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, were once part of the Soviet Union, the very power against which Nato was created.

The expansion has caused concern in Russia, which says it may have to reconsider its defence strategies if its interests are ignored.



April 2008: Putin at NATO meeting . . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/world/europe/05nato.html

The Spanish foreign minister, Miguel Ángel Moratinos, said that Mr. Putin “showed a willingness for dialogue,” adding that Russia would be willing to return to the treaty limiting conventional forces in Europe if Western nations were willing to compromise, presumably by adjusting the treaty limits.

But Mr. Putin also called NATO’s promise of eventual membership for Georgia and Ukraine “a direct threat” to Russian security. Russian anger, however, was mitigated by the alliance’s refusal to back Mr. Bush’s position that the two aspiring members should be welcomed now into the Membership Action Plan, or MAP. The program sets out stiff conditions for membership in the alliance.

While Mr. Bush was supported by about half the alliance’s members, including nearly all those of Central and Eastern Europe, he was opposed by Germany, France, Spain, Italy and others.


And somehow since this past April? Human beings are getting killed so all these big Smart Men and Merkel can have their little pissing contest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thanks so much for that JustAnotherGen
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. You are very welcome
::pals: Let's all remember - NATO was set up in 1949 to keep the S.U. in check.

It doesn't exist anymore - The Soviet Union. Only it's 'seat' - Russia. Did you notice that Putin is all but demanding the President of Georgia step down? And how eerily reminiscient it is of Bush demanding Hussein step down? Who the eff were we to make those demands? Who the hell is Putin to make those demands?

Sometimes In April Part 3:
http://www.nato.int/docu/basictxt/treaty.htm

The North Atlantic Treaty
Washington D.C. - 4 April 1949
The Parties to this Treaty reaffirm their faith in the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments.

They are determined to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law. They seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area.

They are resolved to unite their efforts for collective defence and for the preservation of peace and security. They therefore agree to this North Atlantic Treaty


So if what the preamble to the treaty reads is correct - then Georgia and the Ukraine wanted to join NATO to do as stated above. We wanted them to join. Russia, France, Spain, Germany, etc. etc. didn't want them to join.


I don't know about you -but I don't know which end is up right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. And that Georgian military did a Shock and Awe number on South Ossetia
thinking the Georgian military could invade and occupy the sovereign nation of South Ossetia while the world's eyes were on the Olympics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC