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How far will Bush & Cheney go to prevent their being charged with war crimes?

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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:35 PM
Original message
How far will Bush & Cheney go to prevent their being charged with war crimes?
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 12:46 PM by Cyrano
Whether tomorrow, next month, next year, or the day they leave office, what do you believe they'd do to protect themselves from being charged with war crimes and/or crimes against humanity? While still in office, I believe they'd use habeas corpus or everything else in their power to avoid being answerable for their deeds.

But, in truth, I never see this happening after they leave office. What if some Dem, with a huge pair, wins the next election and decides to bring such charges? These charges have never been brought against a sitting or ex-president and VP. What do you think would happen?

How many Americans really think that Bush & Cheney have committed these crimes? If brought before the bar of justice, do you think they'd be found guilty?

Here's my truly objective opinion. Bush and Cheney (and others) are totally guilty of war crimes, crimes against humanity and crimes against the constitution.

I'm fully aware that the possibility of such charges being brought are virtually zero. But if they were, what would be your verdict?
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Martial law would seem to tie up all the loose ends . . . n/t
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think someone is going to have to stop the buck at some point.
Whether it be this year, next year, 10 years from now, or 100 years from now. If abuse of the system and violations against the Constitution are permitted, at some point it becomes impossible to uphold the laws of the land.

And if people in power are allowed to continually abuse the system, the abuses will just continue and get worse over time.

At some point, somebody is going to have to be brave and say the buck stops here, and then go about putting a stop to it. And part of the cure will be to prosecute those who are guilty, to serve as an example of what will happen if you break the law.

Bush and Cheney and Co. cannot be given a free pass on their crimes. They must be investigated, and dealt with. Just think how different things might be today if Nixon had actually been held responsible for Watergate.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. They are already firing all the lawyers and putting
their own hacks in instead.

All of a sudden the Democrats are all real quiet about court stacking.

At times like this when the political protesters are quieted I wonder who Cheney is listening in on in his NSA wiretapping program. Are arms being twisted?
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Merrill Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. War crimes
Whatever it takes however we must begin taking important steps now over and above pushing for investigations. I offer the following thoughts in an effort to stimulate change.

Middle Class can and should take absolute control of our government for the middle class is the most powerful influence on the USA planet. Remember the wealthy are only 1% of the population so middle class rules with votes. A change in voting and financing of elections is the only way. Elected officials do not want change. USA citizens NEED change! Special interest
financing must go. The media also seems to deciding who OUR candidates should be. Once again I am with http://kucinich.us/

We the people demand these issues be placed on the 2008 presidential ballot:

http://www.instantrunoff.com/
http://www.citizen.org/congress/campaign/
http://www.publicampaign.org/
National Healthcare for All

""Ironically, few Americans understand that a relatively small number of consumers, roughly 5 to 10 million have the economic power to severely damage the American and global economy. Spending cutbacks could be become contagious. Leaving out the working poor with little discretionary spending, the amount of discretionary spending by millions of middle class Americans with ample disposable income is sufficient to threaten economic growth and the economy. A major reason is that there is a large "multiplier" associated with consumer spending, meaning that every dollar spent has a large ripple or cumulative impact through various sectors of the economy. One person's spending is another's (actually many others') income. The multiplier can range from four to six. For example, cut consumer spending by $250 billion and it can easily reduce the national GDP by $1 trillion. If the middle class does not soon use its consumer spending power, it will surely lose it as its discretionary income evaporates, because the war against will be won by the Upper Class.

Economic civil disobedience for the foreseeable future has much more power to change our nation for the better than the political act of non-voting. The goal of the economic strategy is to obtain enough reforms and improvements in the political system to restore the effectiveness of voting at some later time. Now, in our perverse society, dollars are more powerful agents of change than votes. In truth, as has been evident for many years, we cannot vote ourselves out of a corrupt, oppressive and delusional democracy that uses military and economic weapons of mass devastation on a global scale for the benefit of elites, while pretending to be the world's best democracy. The truth of all this defines the case for a populist Second American Revolution. We must motivate some millions of Americans that are so fed up with current conditions that they will eagerly join a loose network of American Insurgents for Democracy, not fighting with weapons in the streets, but by withholding their dollars from the economy.""



http://www.populistamerica.com/progressive_civil_disobedience
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maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Didnt the bu$h family buy 173,000 acres in Paraguay?
I wonder why they picked that parcel up? Investment real estate?
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. It's on a huge underground water system.
water is tomorrow's oil.
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Those who inherited those parcels from the Nazis who previously lived there
must have made a tremendous profit.

Either that, or they sold it at cost to the Americans who held the values of their benefactors.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Unless I'm mistaken, Congress already provided cover for them
Buried somewhere in those bills, is language that Bush/Cheney along with members of the military cannot be tried for war crimes. Can't recall which bill it is, but it was one of those they rushed to get passed before the 2006 elections.
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. If such laws have been passed, are they valid. In other words, are
they constitutional?

Yeah, it's a question that only a lawyer or a judge can answer, but the bottom line I'm after is, can people pass laws in which the only intent is to protect themselves?

I don't pretend to know the answers to these questions. But do they protect them against "crimes against humanity" or do they protect them against their sworn duty to "protect and defend the constitution of the United States?"

Any opinions? I don't have a any kind of definitive answer to these questions. I know how Antonia Scalia would rule, but I consider his opinions less that worthless.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I can't tell you if they pass
muster with the US Constitution.
The good news is that those laws they passed enable the International Criminal Court to claim jurisdiction.The ICC can only operate when the laws of the offenders home country say they can't be held accountable.

Trying to dodge US justice turned into a Catch-22 situation for them.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. They preemptively withdrew
their/our signatures from the ICC to prevent being charged with war crimes because they knew they would other wise be.
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. They have nothing to fear
Unfortunately, the American public and Congress would never allow them to be transferred to some outside jurisdiction to be tried as war criminals, and they certainly won't be tried for such crimes within America.
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