A health care pro-life nightmare story for Ann Coulter

[proud2BlibKansan]

So Ann Coulter thinks there is no health care crisis in our country? Has she been in a coma?

I posted a few weeks ago about our neighbors who are pregnant and found out the baby is most likely not viable. They are now telling them that there is a slight chance the baby will survive if she carries him full term. She is almost 8 months pregnant and her doctors told her she could decide to have an abortion now or carry the baby to term. If he is born alive, he will immediately go into neonatal intensive care at a cost of $10,000 a day. And that is just the cost of the stay, it doesn't include tests or medications or surgeries.

The insurance company will pay one third.

The hospital said if the baby survives it will cost at least a million dollars to save him.

They decided to carry the baby to term and hope for the best.

So these 28 year old kids will likely need to declare bankruptcy to save their baby.

Now if that doesn't convince you there is a health care crisis in this country, you don't have a heart.

[Kitty Herder]

1. I have neighbors in a similar situation.

They were told early in her pregnancy that the baby had only half a heart. She doesn't believe in abortion, and she wanted that baby, so she carried him full term. The baby was born alive and spent the first several months of his life in a NICU. He's had three or four major surgeries and is doing o.k. so far. He's cute as a button, with the chubbiest little chipmunk cheeks you ever saw. But he'll need a heart transplant if he is going to live very long.

These parents are young and poor. They live with her parents because they can't afford rent and medical bills. They will be paying medical bills for the rest of their lives. They'll never get their heads above water, unless they win the lottery or something.

[Ilsa]

5. Infant heart transplant. Geez, I wonder how likely that is.

It bothers me that people don't feel like they have the right to make these decisions versus "leaving it in God's hands", which I have come to conclude, usually means a roll of the dice. If I had been told that early in my pregnancy, I would assume that a heart transplant would never happen, and if born, the baby would have to endure numerous medical procedures. I'd elect to take matters into my own hands and have the abortion, difficult as it could be. Really, which is more cruel?

I feel bad for this young couple. But I wonder if their belief system is hurting them permanently.

[renie408]

7. Which is more cruel? Assuming that your decisions are the ones everybody should make.

Believing in the right to choose goes both ways. This young couple has the right to not abort and you have the right TO abort. Both choices should be respected.

And until you are in that position, I think you should probably not get too judgmental. I have friends who were pretty much assured that their baby would not be able to survive more than a few days after birth. They found this out when they were six months pregnant. They chose, after some of the most painful consideration imaginable, to try and carry the baby to term. They wanted a chance to hold their child and they wanted to give him whatever slim chance they could.

That's what parents do.

[Ilsa]

8. The question, "Which is more cruel?" is valid. Don't read more into my comments.

I have nothing but sympathy for this young couple. At their age, I might have done the same thing. I doubt I would now, but I was just going through the flip-side of possible outcomes, one that isn't immersed in "hope". I was saying I don't think I could rely only on hope for a positive outcome. I would be looking for more affirming statistics that a transplant or other form of healing would be available.

Yes, it is their decision, and should only be theirs, and with the best information possible. It's outrageous that anyone has to consider becoming financially bankrupt over these decisions.

[renie408]

10. I think my point is that neither decision is more or less cruel.

And therefore, no, I don't think the question is valid. Choices like these just 'are'. To be perfectly honest, I would most likely terminate ANY pregnancy at this point in my life. But another 44 year old woman with grown kids and in dicey financial straights might choose to have a baby. Who is right? Maybe we both are. I am simply not up to another baby. She might be.

In the case of the kid with the heart problem, you can't judge the parent's choice without considering how choosing otherwise might haunt them. For them, the emotional cost might far outweigh the financial cost. There is no mention of religious beliefs, just that they were against abortion. Atheists can be pro-life, too. Also, it seems to me you have completely ignored the fact that their child is a chubby cheeked happy baby. He is alive. Should they have aborted him because his life will possibly be brief and expensive?

And lastly, life is short and rough and doesn't come with guarantees. Without hope, it would pretty much suck. I also suspect that if everybody based their decisions on certainties and without hope, we wouldn't be here.

We can, however, definitely agree that nobody should have to weigh financial concerns while at the same time trying to deal with such a heartrending decision.

Funny, isn't it? Republicans are all about the right to life, while they support a health care system which forces people to choose abortion over bankruptcy. Just a little more cognitive dissonance.

[Ilsa]

11. I like your analysis. Thank you for taking the time for it! nt!

[Tesha]

16. I've never met an atheist who would bear the child described in .0

> Atheists can be pro-life, too.

I think we'll need a citation for this statement, at
least for the question of how it applies to the situation
described in the Original Post. I've never met an atheist
who would bear the child described in .0; that child, if
born, is going to live a short, hard life full of pain.

Atheists have more compassion than to force a child to
bear all that just so the parents might feel a bit better.

Tesha

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. They aren't doing this to make themsleves feel better

What a horrible accusation.

They are doing what they think is best for their baby. Giving him a chance to live. And I am so thankful they have that choice. It is stories like this that prompt me to be pro choice.

[Tesha]

20. How do you know?

> They aren't doing this to make themselves feel better.

How do you know? And giving the child a very slight
chance to live and (essentially) no chance to live
a normal life doesn't really seem like a good trade-
off to me.

Tesha

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Because I have known them for 15 years

And I have talked to them at length about it. They believe the right thing to do is to give the baby a chance, any chance.

[Tesha]

25. You're not really answering the "deeper question"

Why do they feel that the right thing is to give the baby
"any chance" when the likely outcome is failure and even
with success, a damaged baby who may lead a difficult,
perhaps short and painful life?

And even just considering the finances, if they bankrupt
themselves over this, what kind of life are they giving
their child?

Tesha

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Their choice is to kill the baby now or give him a chance to live

I have no problem understanding why they are making the choice to allow their baby a chance to live. And I applaud them for that, since I can't say it's the choice I would make.

[Tesha]

33. Euthanasia exists for a reason: it ends suffering.

This couple will, instead, foist a huge shipload
of suffering on their child.

Tesha

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. You are entitled to your opinion

I am choosing to respect the choice the parents make.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

29. Right on Tesha

I'm an atheist and I agree with you.

[northernlights]

18. Here is where I disagree

"For them, the emotional cost might far outweigh the financial cost."

It's not only about the financial cost. The choice is also between the emotional cost to the parents versus the emotional and physical cost the baby will suffer.

I don't blame the parents for not choosing what I would, these days, for the potential baby in that circumstance. But in general, they need to honestly attempt to imagine the suffering they will be inflicting on that baby, in the name of "hope."

Telling someone the baby will have a 10% chance of making it is not entirely honest. What will the total cost of that 10% lottery ticket be -- not only in $$, but in pain and suffering? For how long, the pain and suffering? How much pain and suffering and what, if anything, can and will be done to alleviate it.

And what about the 90% that don't make it? How much pain and suffering are they forced to endure before they finally die? How will they feel about witnessing that -- do they want to carry that guilt for life? Because they will.

Sometimes the most loving thing choice you can make is to take on that emotional pain (and fear of judgement by church and family) in order to save the other from suffering.

People counseling health care -- whether it's doctors or others -- need to be more honest and realistic and stop dealing in euphanisms such as using the word "discomfort" versus "pain" (not to mention screaming agony). Part of the problem I suppose is that healthcare providers witness so much pain and suffering on a daily basis, they block out their own emotions about it. They don't think about what they are inflicting on others to protect themselves, so they can do their job every day. But then that dishonesty infuses their counseling and advice.

[Tesha]

21. Precisely. (NT)

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. What makes you think the baby will suffer?

Your whole post is one giant jump to conclusions that I don't see at all.

[Tesha]

26. A "million dollars" in hospital care is sure to lead to suffering.

> If he is born alive, he will immediately go into neonatal
> intensive care at a cost of $10,000 a day. And that is just
> the cost of the stay, it doesn't include tests or medications
> or surgeries.
>
> ...
>
> The hospital said if the baby survives it will cost at least
> a million dollars to save him.

Anyone who goes through multiple surgeries and "a million
dollars" in hospital care is sure to suffer.

Maybe you need to tell us exactly what the medical problem
is so we can make a more-informed assessment of the situation?

Tesha

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Unless you are all doctors I don't see how you can properly assess the situation.

One more reason I am respecting this couple's decision.

[Tesha]

32. Well, apparently then, neither can *YOU* assess the situation. (NT)

[Raven]

2. There was a time when that wasn't a decision that had to be made

and, as a result...who knows who would'nt be here...me? you? John McCain? Obama? Coulter? She has no clue. Good God!

[renie408]

3. IF they can declare bankruptcy. I thought that the changes in the bankrutcy laws

made it infinitely harder to claim hardship for medical reasons.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. I honestly don't know

Either way they are screwed.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. If that isn't bad enough, these heartless Coulter-types go around declaring

that all's well in the world.

How uttery sad.

[Ilsa]

9. Ask the Ann Coulter types why Dairy Queen has to raise money for

the Children's Miracle Network (medical care) if things are just groovy. This month, DQ is donating some proceeds from he sale of Blizzards to CMN.

And that's just one fundraiser.

[FloridaJudy]

12. Tell your neighbors

To look into Children's Medical Services. They'll frequently help out parents facing catastrophic medical costs for their young children.

Health care politics still suck though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Thank you

We have been looking at what charities are available.

[Monk06]

14. "The insurance company will pay one third. " Nice to know those Repug insurance

companies are 1/3 pro life

[Smith_3]

15. Ann Coulter doesn't give a rats ass. She is an attention whore who is in it for the money.

She will do and say anything to make a buck. Her writings are completely void of any useful information and entirely serve the purpose of being sold for hard cash to racists and other low class rightwing dumbasses.

[Maine-ah]

17. our baby cost (including prenatal care) was 28k

no insurance. Mainecare wouldn't cover us, and one employee told me I should quit my job to get help. In the end, they did help, and it went retroactive by a couple of months. They may be able to get some similar help. Tell them to look into state/fed programs. It may be their only chance. Other than that, they can try to work something out with the hospital. The other kick in the ass, is that you can't just send them a little every month anymore with out working out an agreement. I tried it on some bills Mainecare wouldn't cover, and they sent a lawyer after me. I worked out a monthly payment at that point. I'm still covered by Mainecare, but I have a monthly copay. It's still cheaper than traditional health insurance.

[Blue Belle]

24. Can I use this story?

I'm writing a rebuttle to an anti-Obama email that rages against his stance on abortion and universal health care. Hyper-vigilant "religous" types aren't so prone to listening to statistics, but if there is a story attached, it drives the point home.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Yes you may

[Donald Ian Rankin]

America only has a public healthcare crisis in the sense that the Arctic has a deforestation crisis.

A "lack of health care crisis" would be a more accurate term.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

30. America only has a public healthcare crisis in the sense that the Arctic has a deforestation crisis.

A "lack of health care crisis" would be a more accurate term.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. And this is why I am a liberal and a Democrat.

Even though I am opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

I'm sure as hell not one to be a hypocrite about things.

[Fleshdancer]

36. I still get confused on this issue: are late term abortions legal or not?

Also, why in the hell is the insurance company only going to pay for 1/3rd of the costs?? This alone is worth contacting the media and representatives.

I'm so sorry to hear about their situation. Please keep us updated.

[foerschie]

37. I don't post often but

I went through something similar and have to add the
following:

Even if they declare bankruptcy it will not relieve them of
their medical bills.

This is just the beginning for this young couple. The child
will need the help of the entire community to become a
productive member of our society. Occupational and physical
therapy are just the beginning. Not to mention that the child
will never be able to get insurance without being in a group
policy. If the baby survives, they will never be able to
start, say their own company. The child and the parents until
the child is 18 will have to work for insurance.

I also wanted to point out the hypocrisy of the Bush admin.
While governor of Texas GW signed the 'pull the plug' law.
Which allows a hospital to 'pull the plug' if the patient
could not pay and had no hope of recovery. 

I wish this young couple the best and hope everything turns
out for them, it happened for me and it can happen for them. 

But everyone needs to make their own choice based on their
heart, not their ability to pay.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

38. You brought up some very good points.

I didn't post very often either. But this year I decided to get more mouthy. It took me 7 years to start my own thread.
In England nobody goes bankrupt because they get ill or have poorly babies.

[Cleita]

39. People like Ann Coulter don't care about the baby after it's born, so

they don't see any health care crisis. Their religion tells them the fetus must be carried to full term, but after birth, oh well, if you can't afford it and it's post natal care, put it out in the woods for wild animals to devour like they did in ancient times.

[Not the Only One]

40. I spoke with a Verizon worker

He came in to put DSL in our building and was talking about how Verizon/FairPoint Communications would rather pay guys 40 or even 60 hours a week of overtime rather than hire new people and add them to their benefits package, which includes health insurance.

It's truly an insane system.