Let's ask ourselves: How do people become executives in the first place?

[MonteLukast]

Companies quietly raid workers' pension funds for executive benefits

Every worker who still maintains some flicker of misplaced hope in the good and decency of corporations, does so because at heart they still believe they can beat the system.

One of the Republicans' biggest doggy treats is the idea that you will become rich someday.

"You will become an executive someday."

But HOW do most people become executives?

They do mainly because some executive before them liked what they saw. Yes! That's right!

Let's all ask ourselves: how did most executives get to be executives? Easy! Other power brokers liked them enough to invite them into the hallowed suite.

That's what these trusting souls fail to realize. Merit and hard work have less to do with it than they think. (Of course, WE know that and have known it for years.)

And no matter how many times the corporate boards talk about merit and qualifications (because they HAVE to), we all know what kind of "merit" and "qualifications" they mean:

--The ability to resemble the CEO as closely as possible.

-- The ability to have a personality non-threatening to the company image.

-- The ability to put aside any pesky feelings of altruism, compassion, fairness, etc. Often revealed in a "support of the middle class" or "union sympathy". Such unorthodox feelings give you a FAIL on the executive personality screening.

-- The ability to enthusiastically cheerlead Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Whatever... in your personal life, too, if need be.

-- The ability to unquestioningly follow workplace policies, even if they're known to drag down the company's performance in the long run.

-- It wouldn't hurt to be good-looking.

-- It wouldn't hurt to be married, either. (that irresistible image of responsibility!)

-- It absolutely helps to have enough dough to spend on whatever upkeep is necessary to stay executive-worthy. After all, it's an investment in yourself.

--Above all, the ability to keep a positive attitude, meaning you don't let those pesky little recessions and economic inequalities get to you. Almost 50 million people without health care? More and more formerly middle-class people resorting to the food bank? Just put those thoughts out of your mind! It's stressful, and stress will sap your productivity.

So you wanna be an executive. Easy! Just build a time machine, go back in time, and get new parents, a new childhood, a new neighborhood, and a new school. Don't forget to pack your day full with resume-building and character-building activities. Don't forget that activities as part of a team are always more valuable than solitary activities. Don't forget to already have an established Google presence well before you enter college. And remember that even in the middle of a recession, you have to look like you spent a lot of money to make money. (Ladies, don't forget to save for your plastic surgery fund-- you'll need it when your co-workers start to tell you that you look tired.)

Oh, and always remember... vote Republican. What's the point in being an executive if you don't look out for your own best interests?

[Cassandra]

Also, the ability to make a fast decision.

It doesn't have to be a good decision or in the company's long term interests but boards of directors are enamored of people who can get out there and take a firm position. (Pounds fist on table) CEOs seem especially good at making decisions that are in their personal interests.

[sui generis]

6. nuance

Anybody can make a fast decision based on minimal information.

The difference between a successful exec and an ex-exec is the exec makes the right decision more often.

About benefitting the company generally speaking the view of human resources is exactly that: chattel.

An executive generally sees HR as the most expensive part of running a company. The goal is to have great revenue and great margin with continual growth - from the board room. That means unless you have a means of producing that is exclusive to human capital the role of human capital in a company is always considered expendable at the first opportunity.

An executive has a value system that is driven by acquiring value, not by making people happy. As much as we don't like to think that is a good value, a nun would suck as an executive and vice versa. The more successful a company is, generally speaking, the more jobs it creates and furnishes.

Having expounded on all that - different companies, different market sectors, and different management styles have the luxury of putting their employees first, so not to paint with too broad a brush: yes there are exceptions to the CEO as heartless heart of the company. The board strives for vision and strategy: human capital strives for excellence in tactical execution. They have to be in balance or a company will start to smell from the rotting deadweight - on either side of the board room wall.

[MonteLukast]

15. It really played out that way in 2004.

America picked the candidate with the fast decision-making in 2004. Thinking of America as a company, we picked the deliverer of short-term results over the one with longer-term vision, to be our CEO.

Bush really is "the CEO President", in every sense of the word.

[MonteLukast]

16. Yep-- they call it "self-confidence". (nm)

[HEyHEY]

17. Which is very easy when you're a sociopath

[CrazyDude]

54. This is a major characteristic of self-confidence

And good advice to follow.

[Cassandra]

58. If you own the company, perhaps.

If you are the manager, the shareholders actually expect you to act in their interests; for some, long-term, and for others, short-term.
"Chainsaw Al" certainly seemed to be a decisive, effective guy; just what Sunbeam needed. But he used his decisiveness to nearly ruin the company. Always easy to cut someone else's job. It makes you look like you know what you're doing, even when you don't.

[Dr.Phool]

1. The tradition is.

Fellatio, ass-kissing, and back-stabbing.

[LaurenG]

2. I was just going to say "knee work"

but it's the same thing. :rofl:

[Zywiec]

4. Yep, no hard work needed

:eyes:

Whenever I see these threads I wonder if people believe executives are only Republican???

[MonteLukast]

13. It's because of hearing, "you need to be a good fit" that I think that way.

Intellectually, I know that all executives (and even CEOs) can't be Republicans.

But the kind of workplace we're in, where most people, when they fail to get jobs or promotions, are told that they're "not a good fit" or "not a good match", makes me suspicious of anyone who's managed to be successful.

(Why couldn't the gatekeepers simply say to the rejectee, "it's not in the budget" or simply, "we picked somebody else"? Rather than using a term that implies the applicant is at fault.)

The successful are a barometer of the workplace culture. They're a yardstick of what kind of person you have to be to succeed. If the CEO happens to be Republican, of course they're going to be more comfortable working with other Republicans. Because the people at the top set the tone, that's the message everybody in the company gets... that you have to be a Republican to make it to the top.

In Denver, I found out the all of the hospitals used by Kaiser Permanente are Catholic (meaning I'd better get a new insurance company if I decide I want a tubal ligation). My immediate thought was: "The CEO of Kaiser is Catholic." CEOs like their companies (and their employees) to resemble themselves, and this tendency to automatically go with what's more comfortable is is as deep as human nature itself.
We simply will not have true equality in the workplace until we confront these, truly, basic emotional needs. Yes-- for the narcissistic CEO, it's a basic emotional need to staff his board with other cute rich Republican white men.

Sometimes, "going with your gut" can be devastating to the people around you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. It's the American way of doing business, gaining office, or becoming a general.

[Canuckistanian]

24. Kiss up, kick down

It worked for John Bolton.

[MonteLukast]

36. Exactly. The Bush administration is merely doing...

... what's been SOP of business for years.

It's nothing new to us. We live with it every day.

Maybe that's why so much fewer of us protested BushCo's gross abuses of power? Because in our work lives, it's the same story; and if we dare point it out, we're out the door?

Just becasue you're used to something, doesn't mean you should just let it continue. These executive attitudes are destroying our country and planet. Literally.

[keroro gunsou]

61. and it helps...

if you're white and good looking.

:sarcasm:

i was passed over for a job that i was FAR and away more qualified by a some ignorant pretty boy who knew absolutely nothing about good graphic design. needless to say, when they fired him less than a month later and called me, i told the art director that i'm "no one's sloppy second," and promptly hung up on him.

[sui generis]

3. wrong wrong wrong

Executives come through one of two channels:

1. They built the company themselves.

2. They were acquired as an asset themselves (and their little black book too)

It is NOT about favorites and other malarky. A CEO is as owned as a serf. Yes, there is more money involved, and yes life is easier, but let's face it, Eddie Murphy as a CEO is Hollywood.

When you are invited into the board room it is because you have something the board room wants, or else you built the board room. If you are the CEO I promise you you would never risk your profits by placing an idiot in an executive position.

[Recursion]

7. Well, that last sentence in nonsense

If you are the CEO I promise you you would never risk your profits by placing an idiot in an executive position.


Yeah, the people running companies in the US are really showing themselves to be prudent and capable of making good decisions...

[Hannah Bell]

8. hey, they're making Great decisions! for their own bottom lines...

[Zywiec]

10. and the bottom lines of their shareholders. n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. Would you invest in a company...

...where the executives held the shareholders in contempt?

[Zywiec]

18. It depends on what my return was... n/t

[sui generis]

9. nonsense

You seem to be confusing belief that someone is doing the right thing (even if it's only the "right thing" for the company) with intentionally doing the wrong thing.

You have a different definition of what "good and prudent" is than someone running a company. A contract lawyer would even have a third definition, depending on who is paying his bill.

Yes, some execs are evil and callous and out of touch, and even profoundly stupid or greedy or both. But they're made out of the same stuff as you or I - so there are good ones too.

[MonteLukast]

29. Each person has a different definition of "the right thing".

And when these definitions clash, you have conflict. Or trouble.

In an unequal marriage, "being a supportive wife" and "living according to traditional gender roles" are, in practice, ONE AND THE SAME.

One thing the Bush administration has done, is made me look past words to find out what people DO with them. What are they using those words for? It's like "tough love".

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. Yes, another "eat the rich" post on DU. How original.

But in this case I feel compelled to chime in.

I have worked for good companies and bad companies - good executives and bad executives. Most of them are not the stereotype golf-playing, cigar-smoking Scrooge McDuck / Monty Burns charicatures they're made out to be. In my mind, most good executives share the following qualities:

1) They treat their employees decently. This doesn't necessarily mean giving them the greatest benefits (a lot of lousy CEOs give great benefits packages to compensate for their workplaces sucking.) but they do listen to their employees and allow them to succeed or fail on their own.

2) They promote from within when justified, but aren't afraid to go outside of the system to bring in new blood.

3) They are very good at making money.

Corporations are not magical money making factories. Poorly run corporations regularly fail. CEOs who run failing corporations are stigmatized. It is not a free ticket to lifetime money.

I've worked for fat executives, singe executives, womanizing executives, outright assholes, narcissists, and very very good executives, some of whom exhibited many of the previous qualities. Many of them built their own companies from scratch. Some of them brought those same companies crashing down around their heads due to stupidity or arrogance, even while treating their employees very well on the compensation/union/benefits front.

One particular part of your statement is especially telling - the idea that the new CEO must somehow resemble the old. As if corporations are magical entities that have always existed, and always will exist. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[MonteLukast]

14. I guess the idea is...

I've worked for fat executives, singe executives, womanizing executives, outright assholes, narcissists, and very very good executives, some of whom exhibited many of the previous qualities.

These people were already there.

What about in the near future?

Will anybody make it to the executive suite who's fat now and stays fat? Who's liberal now and doesn't start voting Republican? Will an average-looking woman who works for a company with a lot of good-looking people, still be able to get promotions if she refuses to get "work done" in the future? Will a non-churchgoer who's starting out now at a company with a largely religious leadership, soon find themselves stymied as they try to go up the ladder, while their more religious counterparts start ascending faster? (You can bet all they'll hear is that the latter had "better qualifications" or a "more positive attitude".)

It looks to me like a lot of screening processes companies employ, will have the effect of preventing other John Edwardses and George Soroses from coming into being. Ted Turner, if he were starting out today, might never get higher than middle managament because he's "not the right personality fit" for the top.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Umm...

Will anybody make it to the executive suite who's fat now and stays fat?

How the hell can you physically stereotype executives? Have you SEEN Dick Cheney?!?

Who's liberal now and doesn't start voting Republican?

This may come as a surprise, but they don't ask you about your voting record and political views in interviews. Even for exec jobs.

Will an average-looking woman who works for a company with a lot of good-looking people, still be able to get promotions if she refuses to get "work done" in the future?

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

Will a non-churchgoer who's starting out now at a company with a largely religious leadership, soon find themselves stymied as they try to go up the ladder, while their more religious counterparts start ascending faster?

I don't know. The vast majority of corporations have no religious culture. I've never worked for one that has.

Ted Turner, if he were starting out today, might never get higher than middle managament because he's "not the right personality fit" for the top.

Ted Turner STARTED HIS OWN COMPANY. He created his own corporate culture. Your argument makes no bloody sense.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. Don't ask him to make sense, he's on a self-righteous ignorant jihad to make him feel better

:eyes:

[MonteLukast]

38. No way. We've got a serious job problem in America, and I need all hands on deck.

If we're going to stop the cynicism about what it takes to be successful and earn a living, we need everybody to pitch in and change our culture.

America, it's supposed to take all kinds to make a world! And your country in particular. Stop saying that only one or two personalities will ever be successful!

We are fighting human nature itself, and we cannot let it win.

[MonteLukast]

27. The whole point is, they DON'T ask you right out.

This may come as a surprise, but they don't ask you about your voting record and political views in interviews. Even for exec jobs.

They feel you out. They have a million little tricks up their sleeve for finding out who you are. And they have a million little nice ways to cover their tracks. They have a whole arsenal of socially acceptable ways to skirt employment laws. "Doesn't fit the company culture" IS, in fact, a perfectly lawful reason to fire someone.

So, a person who's "not a good fit" COULD, in fact, be unmarried, or not the right religion, or anything that would ordinarily be prosecutable in the EEOC. But all that's on the books is, "doesn't match the culture", so it's within the law.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

32. So what do you suggest should be done about this?

You can outlaw blatant discrimination, but you can't outlaw people hiring people they want to work with, and naturally part of that might be personal or political. (Though in my experience the political has very little to do with it outside of industries that are closely connected to the government.) Executives run the whole political and religious spectrum, as does any other large group of people. And people naturally tend to congregate and want to work with people who hold similar values to themselves. This is human nature, not anything specific to executives or corporations. Shit, just look at all of the "My idiot conservative co-worker" threads on DU.

[MonteLukast]

35. We can start by making sure this selection doesn't keep people...

... who don't fit the mold from earning a decent living.

What's different about today is that now we're expected to fit these molds even to get a foot in the door. See the commenter's post below about MBAs. A kind of selection process appears to be taking place to weed out those who do NOT have a "profit before people" mindset.

And people naturally tend to congregate and want to work with people who hold similar values to themselves.

The right solution is to learn to peaceably and productively work with those different from yourselves, NOT to just let them go. But I guess that's just too costly for most corporations.

People are not even being given the opportunity to meet others halfway, to fold new experiences into their personalities. It's as if there's no such thing as a transferable skill anymore.

Our business model is turning people into one-trick ponies, with only narrow (but very in-depth) skills. Not sure how this is supposed to benefit anything but the next quarter's results, but frankly, I'm amazed America's economy is doing as well as it is.

[MonteLukast]

28. Also, once again, Dick Cheney's *already here*. (nm)

[Hannah Bell]

52. no, he took over his millionaire dad's company.

so his personality was irrelevant.

[moondust]

20. GWB was the corporate candidate.

Somebody wants me to believe that the corporate decision-makers that arrived at that choice had some kind of special training or ability to make decisions?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. Yeah, because as we all know, there's not a single businessman in the world who is a Democrat

or liberal or cares about progressives values.

:eyes:

Christ.

I've seen a lot of fucking dumb broadbrush ignorant nincompoopery in my time, but this one joins a select few at the top of the top.

Fucking dumb.

[MonteLukast]

39. There are some NOW. The question is, what about the future. (nm)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. I don't know that many executives, but you have very aptly described middle and upper management

The ability to have a personality non-threatening to the company image.

-- The ability to put aside any pesky feelings of altruism, compassion, fairness, etc. Often revealed in a "support of the middle class" or "union sympathy". Such unorthodox feelings give you a FAIL on the executive personality screening.

-- The ability to enthusiastically cheerlead Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Whatever... in your personal life, too, if need be.

-- The ability to http://www.cavehenricks.com/the_milkshake_moment.html "> unquestioningly follow workplace policies, even if they're known to drag down the company's performance in the long run.

-- It wouldn't hurt to be good-looking.

-- It wouldn't hurt to be married, either. (that irresistible image of responsibility!)

-- It absolutely helps to have enough dough to spend on whatever upkeep is necessary to stay executive-worthy. After all, it's an investment in yourself.

--Above all, the ability to keep a positive attitude, meaning you don't let those pesky little recessions and economic inequalities get to you. Almost 50 million people without health care? More and more formerly middle-class people resorting to the food bank? Just put those thoughts out of your mind! It's stressful, and stress will sap your productivity.

Every, and I mean every, upper manager at the large company I worked at was tall, slim, good-looking, and went to one of a handful of acceptable schools. If you were fat, funny looking, or from a poor family you could pretty much forget ascending beyond project manager or supervisor. This was a huge high tech company that was known for it's egalitarianism and innovation.

[guitar man]

25. Sell, sell,sell!!

At least that's what I have run into at several places I've worked at over the years. Just about everybody I saw promoted into the corner offices "sold" their way there. They might not have a clue about how the rest of the company actually works, but they can sell ice cubes to Eskimos due to a total lack of conscience, ethics and morals. The amount of money "they" made for the company pretty much bought the job for them. Never mind that us schlubs in operations had to jump through hoops to make their grandiose schemes come true, because they had NO idea of our operational capabilities,so they didn't care when they vastly oversold those capabilities. "I sold it, just make it happen!" :grr:

[MonteLukast]

31. Too many jobs in America involve selling people stuff they don't need.

Or, any more, even want.

"Would you like to buy the 500 channel cable package today?" Poor call-center employees. The same script, over and over and OVER again, with virtually ZERO chance of making quota in this lousy time, and where promoting frugality and *not* needlessly spending is simply not done on this job, because needless consumption is the entire freakin' foundation of this job.

And this was the case even before Dubya Bush! Our job problems actually started in the late 1990s, as far as the meaning, purpose and mental stimulation being drained out of them.

Most Americans work jobs that are either meaningless, maliciously political, or repetitive. I'm amazed MORE people aren't on Prozac.

Oh, to be paid six figures as an Obama staffer... *sigh*

[unblock]

26. the BIGGEST thing is CONNECTIONS

having a TALENT or a SKILL makes you a good exploitable asset for the company, i.e., it makes you a good employee.
impressive or rare talents might make you a higher paid employee, but still an employee. it's all a commodity of relative value.

to be a good executive, you need to be able to convince people in the executive class that you can make executive-type things happen. i.e., you can make a merger or a sale or a financing or a deal of some sort happen.

that's not just having the skills and talents for the part, it's also having a rolodex of potential vendors or customers or investors or other people that you can tap into. actually, it's not so much the actual "having" of the rolodex as it is having the IMAGE of having an impressive rolodex.

this way, someone who puts you in charge in some executive role can feel like they've just signed up an entire army, or that they hired a sales channel as well, etc.


now, of course, how does one GET those connections in the first place? naturally, the easiest way is to grow up in the right neighborhood, so all your friends from school, your relatives, their relatives, etc., are all now in key roles that help your career. here's where being born to the right family helps....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. In more recent years, the pattern has included

1. Major in business or finance in college, so you aren't contaminated by the liberal arts and distracted from the prime directive of making money
2. Get an MBA

Yes, some business executives are Democrats, but the type of education expected these days for anyone who aspires to become an executive encourages a narrow focus on the bottom line and viewing people as "assets" (like the office machines) rather than as human beings or members of a community.

[MonteLukast]

34. So...

you don't get to make it to the top unless you're of the profit-only mindset. You're carefully selected for this trait and then the process of learning the system snuffs any humanisitc tendencies right out of you.

What's really snuffed out is human potential. And then they tell you to go to counseling and take your drugs as a consolation prize for your lost potential. :grr:

[Mind_your_head]

57. So the nerdy "bean counters" appear to have 'won'

Years ago, management (mid and upper) used to absolutely abhor the accountant/finance guys (aka: bean counters) who "made it" to upper echelon positions (which didn't happen often, but apparently it happened 'often enough). Back then, managers KNEW that the 'bottom line' wasn't the "end all/be all". Managers liked and respected those who rose to upper echelon positions who had a wide variety of positions/experience/background .... and built the company, its reputation, and it's employees UP ~ not just "rape, plunder, then sell of or close" like we have today

There were families ~ REAL PEOPLE ~ who counted on having JOBS and being able, with those jobs, to purchase goods and WORTHWHILE services from the company who was 'putting bread on their tables' every week. Contributing to the community where the company was located was good for the community/it's workers/potential workers and good for business/PR.

*sigh*

Do you EVER here these days (daze?) and talk of 'public relations'? I don't think so. The corporations don't give a d*mn what the public think/feel anymore. They're mostly monopolies now.....the 'citizen' is now only a 'consumer' in the GREAT BIG CORPORATE BORG.

[Wizard777]

33. Let me tell you a secret.

The quickest way to get to the top is to start there. Shhhhhh.......

[MonteLukast]

37. I can't tell you how many times...

... I wished I were Cate Edwards instead of me. We're about the same age, and she's had more successes in her life than I will probably ever have in mine. She's truly blessed in having wealthy parents who are, in fact, compassionate, smart and progressive.

I've always thought that was the reason behing the charisma of John Edwards. He became a multi-millionaire doing something he loves and believes in. How many of us have had the chance to do that?

I want to see a lot more once we have President Obama!

[travelingtypist]

40. Don't get convicted of a felony for gun violence when you're 24.

Like me.

[MonteLukast]

41. And don't get any kind of DUI conviction in Colorado.

Not like me, but this state is one of the toughest on DUIs.

With domestic violence it's even worse. Even a misdemeanor closes a lot of doors to you.

I'm sorry about your conviction. :hug: No one should be punished for the rest of their lives for one mistake.

[travelingtypist]

56. Thank you. 20 years ago next May...

That's why I'm self-employed and work from home. I don't ever have to answer that "have you ever been convicted of a crime?" question ever again. I have the kind of freedom that I never dreamed of, but I came at it sideways.

[Dreamer Tatum]

42. Gee, you sure do know a lot about being an executive!

NOT. I am always amused by what people reveal about themselves when they talk about things of which they are ignorant.

This post is a polemic against corporations as they are portrayed in movies and on television, and in John Grisham novels. This was written
by someone who thinks executives wear black top hats and twist their black mustaches. Who has It's a Wonderful Life running in a loop in their
living room. Whose personal beliefs are cribbed from the lyrics to Good Times.

I'll go ahead and out myself as an executive who has worked at some of the largest and best-known corporations in the United States, and
despite the deepest convictions of many here, these are the facts:

1. There are many flavors of "executive." The OP seems to think that there are Milburn Drysdales and Jed Clampetts, and no one else.
FALSE. When I think "executive," I think of someone who has the authority to sign contracts, develop strategy, and guide policy.
Most people below that level are simply managers of people, projects, relationships, and processes. Executives, despite the deeply-held
convictions of many here, do not regard themselves as privileged members of some American subclass. Their incentives are almost always defined by
narrow performance guidelines, typically financial in nature. The rank and file of a company typically deal with managers, rather than whith executives.
Are there bad executives, who are stupid and abusive? Of course. Are there incredibly good, progressive, supportive, and nurturing executives? Of course there are. Is good executive behavior rewarded in the marketplace? Well, gee. Go to the bookstore and browse through the Harvard Business Review. Almost
half the articles are about managing people effectively. Not exploitively, but effectively. Likewise, Google the curriculums of the top 50 MBA
programs, and you will be shocked to learn how much time is spent on learning to manage people in organizations.

2. Executives, despite the convictions of many, are most assuredly not all republicans, and in fact I have personally worked for several who were downright left-leaning. There are entire companies that have longstanding reputations for being 'blue': American Express and pre-merger Bank of America come to mind right away (psst...wanna know when American Express started offering benefits to domestic partners? 1996. Wanna know what Harvey said to people who might complain? "Fine, quit.") Politics in the workplace is highly localized: I have rarely heard executives express political opinions when 'on the clock.' Most political discussions seem to take place from cubicle to cubicle, by a very small minority of employees. Want to know what people who wear their politics on their sleeves at work are called when they're not around? Assholes.

3. There are more than a few companies that suffer with nepotism, favoritism, and a few other -isms, but every large company I've ever seen has been a complete meritocracy. You work hard and exhibit skills in management and getting along with other people, and you are likely to get promoted regardless of your skin color, sex, or pedigree. I have personally promoted people into management whose key attribute is their ability to inspire other people. It's just that simple. I think some people need to put down the Upton Sinclair novels and accept that there are some excellent places to work, with excellent leadership. There are also terrible places to work, with bad corporate cultures. WalMart. Home Depot. Verizon.

4. Finally...NO SHIT, SHERLOCK. If you have a personality that doesn't fit the corporation, they won't want you around. And why would you WANT to be around, if you can't at least be neutral to what the company is trying to achieve? And GEE, YA THINK that it doesn't hurt to be good-looking and to take care of yourself? Who the fuck wants to work with an ugly, surly, moping bastard that can't get along with other people and is at odds with the corporate mission? When did being good-looking and well cared for hurt ANYONE?

[MonteLukast]

43. I haven't had very good experiences so far...

Yes, I'm overly cynical. Intellectually I know that of course things are better than I've expressed. I just haven't experienced it in my own life.

Finally...NO SHIT, SHERLOCK. If you have a personality that doesn't fit the corporation, they won't want you around. And why would you WANT to be around, if you can't at least be neutral to what the company is trying to achieve?

Because I'm under the impression that companies want you to be MORE than just neutral.

Who the fuck wants to work with an ugly, surly, moping bastard that can't get along with other people and is at odds with the corporate mission?

It's less simple than that. What if you're not ugly, but you're broke and/or trying to get out of debt, so you purposely wear last years' clothes? What if you're not surly or moping, but you're not particularly cheerful, either? This is one of the things that makes retail so hellish: this black-or-white mindset that you're either perky or a grouch, no in-betweens, when you know deep down this is wrong.

And GEE, YA THINK that it doesn't hurt to be good-looking and to take care of yourself? Since when did being good-looking and well cared for hurt ANYONE?

It hurts you when you can't afford it.

Good grooming and clean clothes don't cost anything. But what if you get the distinct impression that in your corporate culture, mere good grooming just isn't enough? When it seems that all the successful people have bright white teeth and can afford a hairdo and manicure once a week.
Looking good costs a lot of money and time. Especially for women, who get smaller paychecks to begin with.

It's the sense of the carrot constantly being dangled in front of your nose and snatched away. You make one change, then they ask you to do another, and another, and another. And even if you do win, it'll always be haunting you that you got the promotion because of your makeup, your shoes, or your white teeth.

I think of someone who has the authority to sign contracts, develop strategy, and guide policy.
Most people below that level are simply managers of people, projects, relationships, and processes.
...
Are there incredibly good, progressive, supportive, and nurturing executives? Of course there are. Is good executive behavior rewarded in the marketplace? Well, gee. Go to the bookstore and browse through the Harvard Business Review.

I would love to do all these things. The fact is I haven't done it in my life so far, and I'm ashamed. I've also had a long-standing insecurity about my ability to inspire people.

I can't properly call myself inspiring unless I actually SEE people doing something I want them to do, right? It seems like a simple question. And yet, when I ask the average person how many people every day I need to successfully persuade to action before I have the right to call myself persuasive, their answer is almsot invariably "I don't know."

It's this whole, "I know it when I see it" attitude I have a problem with, especially since this "it" is so vital, increasingly, to even getting your foot in the door anymore. And especially, nobody seems willing to teach you how to get "it"... at least without going broke or having to get a childhood transplant.

[MonteLukast]

44. self delete (nm)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. Back the truck up here.

You're the one who keeps claiming that all execs are made for life. If you're a recording company exec (who by your definition appears to be a multi-billionaire) you've got plenty of options.

1) Go to work for another recording company

2) Start your own recording company, or join a small one that is on the way up.

3) Do something outside of the recording industry (hint - good executives are flexible in this respect, and cross-pollination of executives in this manner can really cause businesses to evolve.)

4) Consulting or similar.

5) Roll in your cash with your fat-cat friends while smoking cigars on the beach in a tax haven.

You haven't got the first clue how business actually works. You're just repeating stereotypes. Do you have any first-hand experience in the corporate sector?

[NNN0LHI]

46. Great ass kissing abilities sure help

I have seen the dumbest bastards move right up by schmoozing the right people.

Don

[MonteLukast]

48. The problem is, convincing people there's a difference.

There's a difference between relationship building and ass-kissing, just like there's a difference between reaching out politically and pandering.

The problem is when your superiors don't think you're doing enough, when you act in a way you think is engaging enough. How YOU define "dignified flattery" and how S/HE defines it may be two different things. Their definition of building a relationship with them may actually BE "sucking up", and that's where you get in trouble.

[DeepModem Mom]

47. Maybe exceptions prove the rule. Goldman, Sachs, for example...

has as many, or more, Democrats at the top of that company as Republicans. And I know one career exec who made it to exec level from the very bottom of the socio-economic ladder. How? Very, very smart, lucky enough to have a good public school education, academic excellence and hard work leading to a top business school. And he's been an upfront and outspoken liberal and Democrat all along the way -- and is fortunate enough to contribute to Democratic candidates at a maxed-out level, and also generously to charitable causes.

The sad thing about this story: public school education, which was once a great "leveler," is not as good as it has been in the past.

[MonteLukast]

49. I'm glad for him.

Although it might indeed have gotten harder for liberals in the last seven years. He probably did advance largely during the Clinton years and/or during a magnanimous boss's tenure. What I'm concerned about is those personality/psych tests and screeners being used to keep people from getting their foot in the door NOW who might be too liberal, or too union-friendly, or too introverted, or didn't have enough high school activities on their plate. So that 10-20 years from now, you'll see the effect in a rightie-heavy executive board at that given company.

The sad thing about this story: public school education, which was once a great "leveler," is not as good as it has been in the past.

On the part of the Bushies, that may have been intentional. It's hard for me to believe that anything they do is NOT intentional. The theory about NCLB being a stealth school privatization effort came out, when, 2-3 years ago?

[DeepModem Mom]

50. You could well be right about the change during the Bush years --

and also about the willful dimunition of public school education. Thanks for your post and your thoughtful response.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. I'm an upper level

And I'd sooner cut my throat than vote Republican.

But eh? I'm in the techie world. And - point blank - I probably never WILL be a Exec Veep or CEO? Know why? Too many young young Veeps and CEO's in the tech world. We all got into the game in our 20's and are all in our 30's or early 40's now.

If anything - we are going to have a hard time back filling leadership in 10 or 15 years. Honest? I wouldn't go into tech right now as a twenty-something knowing that no one is going to be retiring for another 25 or 30 years. That means we are going to be facing a gut of talent.

They all want to be Hedgies or sell ipods these days . . . No one wants to make the world smaller via communications.

Two things you left off though - especially those of us who went into the tech world in the mid 90's (i.e. made it through the bubble burst) . . .

Risk takers. Prior to working for the beast of a company I work for now - I went to work for a VoIP Pre IPO PBX Mfc. It was exciting guerilla warfare marketing. We are risk takers. You are high, your low. You take risks. Work for 30K to get 15K options at 75 cents a pop. You ever tried to live off of 30K in NY State? Oy!

Work Horses - Must be willing to have no life. That means no DU during your work day. That means you get up at 5:00 and do emails before you even have a cup of coffee. You walk in between meetings with a sandwich in your hand. There's no such thing as lunch.

[CrazyDude]

53. This is a very cynical view

I'll concede that corporate America is not "fair", but this attitude only ensures personal failure.

[deaniac21]

55. Ibecame an executive by being attractive and handing

out really good, dirty sex to the right people in the company. My job performance can suck as long as i do!

[aikoaiko]

59. So basically you outlined the path anyone can utilize to become an exec

Of course, most people are incapable or unwilling and there always the chance that if you do everything "right" because someone might do it better.

[raccoon]

60. 2 ways: (1) be a sociopathic asshole, (2) be born into the family that owns

the business. Sort of :sarcasm: but lots of truth too, IMO.