Finances , worries and thoughts from a LEO wife.

[Mother Of Four]

I've hesitated posting because of many of the "I hate all cops!" threads.

You see, my husband is an LEO and I'm a non practicing EMT-I staying home and taking care of four beautiful children.

LEO's don't make alot of money here, the majority of them do the job because it's what they love. The reason my husband and I have been able to stay afloat so far is due to his Military Retirement. Even with that we are still feeling the strain heavily.

One officer that is as close as a brother to us was trying to renovate his home to take care of a baby that's on the way. While I was helping move boxes I came across a pile of mail. When I handed it to him, he said "Open it" Not knowing why, I did and he asked me to read it. He's behind on every one of his bills. He and his new wife stayed with us for five weeks while getting the house ready and he then stated "This is why what you did, taking care of us, meant so much to us. We would be destitute right now if you hadn't opened your home." He hugged me and told me how much he loved us for it.

Cut to another couple, the wife is a friend of mine from EMS (When I rode still) she is struggling to get through paramedic class and is also newly married into a family with four children. Today we spent an hour on the phone trying to figure out ways to save money on groceries and utilities because her electric just went up by 100 dollars a month on Equal pay.

Next to an investigator we know, who has been married for quite some time to a wonderful school teacher. They have three children, and there are now issues with even being able to pay the water bill.

This is on top of another officer getting shot locally about a month ago, who is still out of duty and may have to medically retire due to his injuries. His medical insurance? Only paying about 70 percent of the bill. When you are in and out of ICU that gets expensive.

Now to us, while dealing with these things we had to juggle bills to the extent that I had to make arrangements with the bank to allow us lapse on our house payment. We are steadily three weeks behind, luckily for us the bank is very understanding.

So here I come every day, checking the boards. I've seen many of these threads bashing police and what they do. How they are abusive and out of touch.

LEO's and their families are people too.

My husband just came home to get some coffee (It's 1:30 in the morning and we live in the town he works) I'm typing this after learning that he had to call county assistance for a huge fight in the local park. 30-40 people from two major families, one of those families have two of theirs in jail waiting on murder charges.

These men and women work hard, they place themselves in danger on a regular basis. They paid jack for what they do, and it's a thankless job. There are many nights I sit up and wait to hear from my husband. Even though I'm used to it from his more than two decades in the military doing the same thing, there are still times my heart is in my throat.

I don't know what the point is to all of this except to say that everyone is getting hit hard right now, in the pocketbook and in the hope department.

I am deeply proud of my husband. I honor what he does, and I love him more than anything else besides my children. I can't tell you how much it kills me inside to read some of these posts with all of the hate and bile.

Yes, there are LEO's and Departments out there that should be hung out to dry. Yes, there are PEOPLE out there that should never carry a gun. But please remember, just as there are good and bad cops- there are good and bad people. With all of the blood, child abuse, drugs and senseless death I've seen. With all of the ugliness my husband has seen, neither of us think that all people are terrible. Neither of us has lost faith in humanity.

Please, don't lose faith in Civil Servants. We bleed, hurt and cry just like you do. We ALL have to come together and make this country right again, it's the only way we'll all survive this terrible time.

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. what's an LEO?

oh...just figured it out. Law Enf. officer. Why use an acronym?

[Mother Of Four]

3. It's like saying EMT- I

It's just easier to type LEO than the whole thing, as with Emergency Medical Technician - Intermediate

[Liberal_in_LA]

10. Oh, I'd never seen 'LEO'. Good post.

[trof]

42. Law Enforcement Officer?

Jeez, it took me a while to figure that one out.
Why didn't you just say so?
:shrug:

[emilyg]

2. What a great post.

I have never bashed a policeman or firefighter . In my daily rounds when I see a policeman or a firefighter I always offer to buy their lunch or dinner. Most refuse. I do say "thank you" for what you do.

[Mother Of Four]

4. Thank you Emily -

:hug:

[gateley]

5. You are so right - and thanks for your post.

I'll remember it. :hug:

[Skittles]

6. Mother of Four, be advised not all of us trash cops

there's assholes on every board

[Mother Of Four]

9. I didn't mean for it to seem like I meant everyone-

I love this board.

[Skittles]

24. I do hear you

I have found a lot of the cop-bashing very disturbing

[Truth4Justice]

66. Probably becuase you havent been subject to police abuse of power.

[EFerrari]

15. Some people here at DU have good reasons to be angry

like Carlos, who was brutalized and arrested for doing his job as a journalist in Miami.

Although, Miami may be a special case. That was horrendous.

[Mother Of Four]

16. I didn't see that one-

Thats horrible. Thankfully we have a good set of people here, and they work with the papers etc. Our Chief is very much about community, and feels the public has a right to know whats going on. I hope he stays for a good long time.

My heart goes out to Carlos :(

[EFerrari]

17. Here's a link. He's very angry and with good cause.

http://carlosmiller.com/2007/04/28/then-i-was-arrested-and-beat-up-by-police-tuesday-after-photographing-them-against-their-wishes/

[Mother Of Four]

22. I read his OP- thank you for the link.

And he has every right to be angry. I hope the end of the story had those officers losing their certification at the very least.

They are the reason people like DH have a hard time.

There is NO defense for what they did.

[EFerrari]

23. Miami has terrible problems. n/t

[Truth4Justice]

26. Yikes!! I know what state I am staying away from. No wonder "COPS" films there all the time!

What a bunch of thugs!!

[EFerrari]

32. Poor Miami has been Bush Country for decades.

:shrug:

[Truth4Justice]

67. I'd rather deal with an alligator then an armed police officer, ready to strike.

[EFerrari]

7. I don't think most people here are "anti cop" but anti @ssholery.

Anti brutality, anti deception and anti bullying.

I live two blocks from a fire station and in a neighborhood where a lot of my local cops live. Those families make this neighborhood the place it is and our local station is one of the very best in this city. One of my friends turned a vacant lot into a little park and our guys and their families were all out there cleaning up, hauling trash, building benches and putting in the landscaping. :)

On the other hand, I used to live across town near a station that has all kinds of problems. Most of those people need to go do something else. They were frightening and there's no way I'd ever call them if I needed help because I could wind up hurt or worse.

Every group has a bit of the best and of the worst, doesn't it?

[Mother Of Four]

11. ...

"Every group has a bit of the best and of the worst, doesn't it?"

I agree with that whole heartedly. There are some in DH's line of work that I wouldn't even trust in the same building, much less having his back in a bad situation.

[EFerrari]

14. It's about leadership, isn't it? Leadership sets the tone.

I feel lucky living in this district. Do you remember a few years back, the San Francisco chief's son, also on the force, was downtown beating on people and there was a huge scandal? We've had real problems here. But each station has its own character and I'm lucky to live where I do. It's a working class neighborhood, not some kind of affluent enclave and I trust my neighbors. They're a bunch of really good people with deep roots here as well as new blood and they handle problems when they come up skillfully and quickly.

The thing I worry about most recently is the Federal government sticking its claws into local law enforcement. That seems like a really bad idea to me, especially those "fusion centers". Our local people care about their communities. The Feds care about their politics. It's not a good mix.

Anyway, yes. We have to stick together and get creative. Our federal government has been ransacked by Bush and we're going to feel it at every level.

[Truth4Justice]

28. Problem with cops being "bad" is they carry the power or life/death over the public with guns... .

Tazers, clubs, dogs, cars, mace & you-name-it.

[EFerrari]

29. That's right. There are people who shouldn't be armed just like

there are people who shouldn't have kids or own dogs or drive cars.

[Truth4Justice]

58. I agree. I dont understand why we continue to allow police abuse to go on unabated.

it was guns and batons before and now its the Tazer.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

8. And yet so many LEOs are very right wing and vote against their own interests

politically. Why is it that they support this criminal organization called the GOP?

I feel for your financial struggles. This nation has exported all its money to global corporations and those controlling the MIC... driving the middle class into the ground.

[Mother Of Four]

13. I don't know why they do it-

We have converted a good half of all the Civil servants we know so far, which is a goodly amount.

The biggest reason we heard in the conversations we've had is "Dem's aren't patriotic." which is bupcus. We've slowly but surely been squashing that myth into the ground. We are in NC, so it's been tough but we are very persistent. :hi:

[TexasObserver]

12. Thanks. There are reasons Americans fear LEO now more than ever.

I have a few LEOs in our extended family, and some good friends in LEO. As you indicate, most are decent humans who try to lead a decent life.

That said, the problem is that in law enforcement there has evolved a basic disrespect toward the constitution, the rights it establishes, and the courts that have interpreted its meaning. Law enforcement officers are trained to circumvent the rule of law in a number of ways to effect searches and make arrests. When a law enforcement officer stops someone, they often ask if they can search the vehicle. When the person says "no," the officer reacts hostilely, and asks the driver "are we going to have a problem?"

That is the problem. It demonstrates a widespread disrespect for constitutional rights and hostility toward Americans who would assert theirs. The people we most need to defend the constitution at home have nothing but scorn for it and the rights it confers.

I know a retired police officer who once told me that he'd never known a police officer who had not lied on the witness stand to either make a case, protect a fellow officer, or protect himself.

Your family dog can love and protect you, and never show anything negative in the home. However, when he runs with other dogs, he may attack someone unknown to him, because he's in a pack and has a pack mentality.

Every day in America, prisoners are abused by police officers. We all know that things have gone downhill the past 7 years in that regard. Americans fear their police now more than any time since the 1960s. When police routinely shock anyone who raises their voice to a police officer, they cannot expect widespread support. LE has gone too far, and until it makes an effort to erase the fascist behaviors, there will be more and more anger and disdain of LE among the population.

[Mother Of Four]

18. I don't know what to say-

I'm crushed every time I hear a terrible story about an officer abusing their authority, it makes it so much harder for the good ones to do their job.

For the record, DH hasn't lied. But since this is a smaller Dept, with a more community friendly approach, that may make the difference.


"That is the problem. It demonstrates a widespread disrespect for constitutional rights and hostility toward Americans who would assert theirs. The people we most need to defend the constitution at home have nothing but scorn for it and the rights it confers."

I think this is it in a nutshell, you have the ones that honor the constitution- and the ones that don't.

[TexasObserver]

20. It varies from department to department.

Houston Police are bad. Pasadena (Texas) police are bad. They tend to treat poorly anyone who gives them any reason to go off. They lack restraint, and because of that, citizens fear them and are generally unsupportive of them.

There are other cities that have fairly decent LE. I believe smaller departments where the police must live among those they serve is the best circumstance.

[Truth4Justice]

25. Amen to that! Since the OP is married to a cop I'll also add that they get special privileges, also.

All they have to do is flash some proof to the officer and then it's "have a nice day, sorry I stopped you for (speeding, drunk, weapons, ect.) and down the road the wife of a police officer goes, way too often in many cases.

And the OP wonders why people have so much contempt for the police these days?

[Mother Of Four]

27. Did I even say once that I wondered why?

Did I ever once defend any form of reprehensible behavior whether it was from an LEO or any other person?

Also, the ones that break the LAW and try to get special treatment are in my book not fit to wear the badge.

Maybe you should read the OP again.

[TexasObserver]

46. I think it is very likely ...

... that she has no idea what her husband and the other officers do as officers. Most people think the bad cops are not the ones they know. My example was an attempt to make clear that the police officer who is going to beat up a prisoner tonight may be the one you'd never guess would do it.

Everyone thinks their guy is above all that. Most citizens do not think that their police would engage in heinous acts unless and until they see actual video of it. Police close ranks behind each other. Their first loyalty is to each other, not the law, not the citizens. I don't think anyone who knows anything about Law enforcement would deny that.

The lawlessness about law enforcement has been spiraling out of control the past 7 years, due to bad leadership at the top, and no attempt by feds to corral bad cops at any level. The federal dog catcher has been on vacation since Bush took office, so the dog packs have run largely out of control. That is why we have taser deaths everywhere.

[Truth4Justice]

59. Well put! We need to see that groups of humans are more deadly then a single man. Pack-mentality.

[TexasObserver]

60. it's the training to cover each other, and the lack of restraint that has become endemic

[Truth4Justice]

63. Agreed. Too many act predatory with us as the prey. These Tazer make abuse easier as well.

as long as Tazer corporation keeps up with the non-lethal rehtoric, contrary to the 200 + deaths from Tazer use, the police will use this as an excust to Tazer anyone from kids to the elderly.

[behave]

19. So, why don't the good cops turn in or arrest the bad cops? Is it because good ones aren't so good?

Or so many?

[Mother Of Four]

21. I know that when we had some local cops turn dirty-

My husband was one of the ones who helped gather information against them.

I can't speak for other Dept's

[eridani]

34. There are many institutional pressures that not many have the courage to resist

This does not only apply to cops--you see it all over, both in public and private spheres.

[behave]

35. But cops swear an oath to uphold the law, the Constitution.

[eridani]

47. So do our Congresscritters Nuff said. n/t

[Truth4Justice]

65. When I served on a jury I was shocked at the jurors who didnt know what the 4th amendment entailed.

the same went for most of the Bill of Rights.

[Truth4Justice]

30. Sean Bell: Tip of iceberg in NYC police murder culture

Sean Bell: Tip of iceberg in NYC police murder culture

NEW YORK (FinalCall.com) - The murder of Sean Bell on November 25, 2006 is not an abberation, according to community and social activists. In fact, they say when the dots are connected in a socio/political context, it is easy to understand why only people of color are shot down in New York City streets like dogs.

Carl Dix, national spokesman for the Revolutionary Communist Party and co-founder of the October 22nd Coalition to Stop Police Brutality, Repression and the Criminalization of a Generation explained to The Final Call that he believes that the killing of Sean Bell and the wounding of Mr. Bell’s friends stems from the “very nature of this capitalist system and its culture of White supremacy.”

“People must see the killing of un-armed Blacks as a nationwide epidemic—not just something that happens in New York City. The 92-year-old grandmother Catherine Johnson wasn’t killed by police in New York City; she lived in Atlanta, Ga.,” Mr. Dix stressed.

Taking Mr. Dix’s argument one step further, there was a timely analysis put forth on the World Socialist Web Site back in June 2003: “The essential task of the city’s police is that of defending a social order characterized by a gap between the world’s greatest concentration of millionaires, and the other, a population in which nearly a third lives below the poverty line and 44 percent have no financial assets whatsoever.”

More at:
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_3388.shtml

[Mother Of Four]

31. Suffice it to say-

DH doesn't work in NYC, nor do we live anywhere near there.

From your article- "The three men were shot an estimated 50 times by police officers just after leaving on early Saturday, Nov. 25, 2006. Mr. Bell was killed hours before he was to have married the mother of his two children"

Horrifying, yes. Terrible, preventable and deeply saddening. Do those officers deserve to wear the uniform- NO.

I'm trying to understand here, why you're placing all of this hostility into this thread which was a reach out to an online community I respect. I'm also wondering why you're trying to smear my husband with that brush?

[Truth4Justice]

33. As a victim of police abuse under color of law I dont trust the police one bit. The Bell case was...

posted not to slam your DH, but to let you know just what murderers some police have become and how they walk away scot-free from all charges. You take things too personally, IMO. BTW, where I live, cops make about 5K per month with full medical care. Not all police depts. are alike. If a cop is respectful to me I will be respectful to him/her. Respect is earned, not forced or demanded, ever.

[Mother Of Four]

52. Thank you for that response-

I read it and appreciate you showing it to me, it was a clear way to make your point.

Noted on the taking it too personally :)

"Respect is earned, not forced or demanded, ever."
Agreed :)

[burythehatchet]

48. Perhaps LEO's who aspire to do good ought to re-think

protecting their own when their own turn out to be bastards.

[Fumesucker]

36. A lot of us suspect that many, if not most, cops love what they do..

Because they love the power it gives them over others, the fear they see in the eyes of "civilians" when they pull them over.

There are just too many laws which really shouldn't be on the books at all and, from the perspective of many of us "civilians", the great majority of cops want more such laws in order to give themselves even more power over the population.

Would you honestly answer one question for me?

What is your husband's opinion of the drug war? Pro, or con?

Keep in mind that without the drug war there would be a need for many less cops and the law of supply and demand would indicate the cop's wages would drop since there would be more applicants chasing fewer cop jobs.

Edited to correct an unclear statement.

[Mother Of Four]

51. I think you'll be surprised to know-

That he's against it. (Drug "war")

He feels that it's a waste of time, money and resources to go after (especially so) people who smoke MJ. More than half the people who are arrested by his Dept he feels should be sent in the direction of help instead. He feels that by making it into a war on drugs, we've not only upped the ante on how much drug runners bring in- but we as a country have made it that much more dangerous for civvies and servants alike because they fight like crazy to keep from being detained. The steeper the consequences the more they fight to get away. Hurting themselves and others in the process.

He feels jails are overcrowded, and that we as a country are spinning our wheels. That rehabilitation has taken a back seat to "toughness" on crime.

I know you didn't ask about this, but he also views prostitution as something that should be rehabilitated instead of an arrest issue. That the ones who should be arrested are the men/women who abuse the people stuck in that bad situation.

He also feels that if we took those resources and placed them into programs to help these people there would be a SHARP decline in activity. There aren't many who actually want to live that way, not really.

Yes, we talk at length about these things. He gets so frustrated sometimes, he'll come home after a long shift and talk about his day. He tells me about the local stores having to put the baby formula behind a counter to keep people from stealing it, and then gets so angry because "If they would fund SS and HELP these people they wouldn't have to steal to feed their babies."

I'm married to a good man, thankfully.

[Wizard777]

37. I debate police corruption with cops and lawyers. Yes there are many good people that are LEO's.

I know many of them on all levels Local, State, and Federal. When I see stories that involve what I believe to be police corruption or even double standards. I bash and I bash hard. I will not hesitate to go for the throat. But I do it because of the all the good officers I know and consider to be good friends. The cops say the most dangerous criminal in society is one that will kill a cop. I disagree with that. The most dangerous criminal in society is one with a badge. A criminal who's crime it is illegal for you to fight back against or flee. Basically what I've found is that most of your "Cop Haters" have had bad experiences with bad cops. Me included. But I've worked hard not to become a cop hater. Hating Cops is an easy way out of dealing with the problem. But once it happens to you. You'll never look at a cop the same way again. You will never give a cop that blind trust others do. So to a certain degree "cop haters" are a monster of their own creation. If only in a failure to police their own. For every incident that is reported to IAD. There are at least 10 that go unreported. You wouldn't believe how many people don't know about IAD. Many of those that do know about it are afraid to report police misconduct. That's because they think the officers buddies will harass them. You know you'll get a ticket every five feet or framed for something.

But for those that do the job honestly and do the job well. I like to think there's a special place in heaven just for them.

[Fumesucker]

38. My family had an excellent case against our local sheriff's dept...

For completely illegal conduct on their part.

We did not pursue it because we couldn't afford to move out of the county and knew full well that we would be the target of every cop on the force for every tiny infraction, real or imagined.

Funny thing is, our kid later married the kid of the local sheriff and we found out that we were completely correct in our judgment of the situation.

[Wizard777]

40. Let me guess. You live in the south. Down there I wouldn't bother with IAD. I'd go FBI

When there is rampant corruption in a police department they're placed in a sort of conservatorship. They come under federal supervison. They have FBI Agents looking over their shoulder. As one friend tells them. You'll know you got it wrong when I slap the cuffs on you.

[Fumesucker]

41. I don't trust the Feebs either...

Their track record is far from unblemished.

Can you say COINTELPRO?

Sure, I knew you could.

[Wizard777]

44. They only disavow their own crimes. Here in Maryland an FBI agent shot a Boyscout, on an idylic date

with his sweetheart, in the face. All the way up to the shooting they didn't do a damned thing right. After the investigation they didn't do a damned thing wrong. Ruby Ridge Rules have no teeth. But they are tough on other agencies crimes.

[Mother Of Four]

53. ...

:hug:

[varkam]

39. K&R.

I guess I should have a reason to have a beef with cops, but I don't. I'm a convicted felon, and I guess I recognize that I did what I did and can accept that...at least on a good day. I think that most police officers are generally good people in a tough situation. I know that there are bad cops out there, but I think that they are few and far between (thankfully) but they tend to get a lot of attention.

Anyway, I'll give you a K and an R. :toast:

[Mother Of Four]

56. Thank you :)

nt

[Vinca]

43. LEO? That's amusing. I used to be one and I never knew it.

I appreciate the gist of your post, though. While there are certainly many taser-happy idiots on police departments, there are more people trying to do good. I'll share the best result of my brief career. After I had left the police department I was on the street one day going about my normal business. A woman I sort of recognized approached me and said "Thank you." She then explained that something I had said to her after arresting her for DUI had hit home and she immediately went into treatment and had been sober for more than a year. I saw her at a restaurant long after that and she still looked clean. It made it all worthwhile. Not all cops are evil.

[pampango]

45. Thanks for posting. Can see why you "hesitated" before posting it,

given the nature of many posts here. At DU we don't usually blame people for the sins of other people who look like them or work like them. "Why don't you correct the sins of your group?" rather than congratulating someone for living their life or doing their job the way it should be.

[2KS2KHonda]

49. I worked my way through college as a cop and know many fine ones and a few pisspoor

excuses for humans. The ratio is, I suspect, about on par with most professions, the difference being that a bad cop often has the potential to do greater harm.

I said back then and I still maintain that we grossly underpay our law enforcement people (same as with teachers whose profession suffers from the same difficulties.)

[Marrah_G]

50. Nice post

I remember what it was like being the wife of a LEO. It can be so scary. No cop bashing from me. My ex never fit the mold people here like to shove all cops into. There are good and bad in any field.

[Mother Of Four]

54. Too true about the good and bad-

Thank you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. I Honor What Your Husband Does Too, As Do Many Here. It Can Be Hard, But Do Your Best To Ignore The

extremists. Though they speak loudly, they are in fact in the minority. :)

[Mother Of Four]

57. Thank you OMC-

:hi:

[jberryhill]

61. I've had problems with bad cops...

...and bad teachers, and bad lawyers, and bad grocery checkout clerks, and bad car washers, and bad waiters, and bad flight attendants, and bad hot dog stand operators.

Saying that "So and So is justified in hating cops" as a class is every bit as valid as saying McCain is justified in hating Asians because he was a POW.

Anyone who refuses to recognize and deal with individuals as human beings for which "your mileage may vary" is not worth the time of day.

[Truth4Justice]

71. Bad cops tend to have guns, knifes, batons and Tazers, so yeah, they are in a different class.

[Joe Chi Minh]

62. The bad guys always make things more difficult for the good guys,

but when the culture of the monied people, and above all the leaders is corrupt and violent (not necessarily at first hand, of course. Mr Big doesn't get his hand dirty or do his own enforcing, foreclosures, etc), the whole of society becomes infected, and the lives and work of the good guys becomes intolerable. That's the way it looks to me in both the UK and the US at the moment.

[Lyric]

64. If there were more outrage from the "good" police

and less silence, or worse, attempts to defend or rationalize what the "bad" police do--at least until it's obvious that it's indefensible--then I think people would have more faith in police in general.

I've known a couple of police officers in Real Life, too, and even they have admitted that there's often an "Us or Them" mentality among LEOs that makes them biased toward their own, and reluctant to believe the worst, even when it's obviously true.

I have no beef with good police officers. I have an ENORMOUS beef with any officer of the law who abuses his or her position even in a relatively minor way--and that includes remaining silent when other cops do Bad Things.

[Pastiche423]

68. When has there been ANY outrage from the "good" cops?

[Truth4Justice]

70. Not in any place I have ever lived.

[we can do it]

69. I'm a Sagittarius

[benEzra]

72. Thank you for sharing, and I think most do appreciate what people like your husband do every day

(and what their families go through as well).

There are some bad apples in every bunch, but I think discussions sometimes omit the fact that the vast majority of officers are good people who don't get paid nearly enough for what they do.

Best wishes and prayers for you and yours.