Driven crazy by people who don't care.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

So today I sort of bit the head off this nice young woman at work. She's a recent college graduate, seems smart enough. But we got into a discussion about the state of the world, and I was just amazed and appalled at how this nice, smart young woman just doesn't care. It went sort of like this:

Me: Doesn't it bother you that our government now tortures people and throws them in secret prisons and spies on its own citizens?

Nice Young Woman: Yeah, sort of, I guess, if that's what's really happening.

Me: It is what's happening. The president now has the power to throw a person in prison without a trial or access to an attorney and just leave them there forever. Anybody. Doesn't that scare you a little?

Nice Young Woman: Not really, because I haven't done anything wrong.

Me: Some of the people who are still locked up in Guantanamo are innocent. They were sold by Afghan warlords to get the ransom.

Nice Young Woman: Well, I really don't think much about those things. They don't affect me. I mean, nothing in our lives really changes on account of that, does it?

Me: You're young, you might have kids someday. Don't you care about what kind of country you'll be living in some day? I'm old and I won't have to live with this mess as long as you will. Why would you not get involved? This stuff matters!

Nice Young Woman: Oh, I don't know. All politicians are the same, it doesn't make any difference. I don't even know who I'll vote for, I'll probably make up my mind in October.

Me: (starting to rant) You can't decide? You can't tell the DIFFERENCE? Good God, they are completely the opposite! McCain wants to start a war with Iran, for Christ's sake! What do you think that will do to oil prices?

Nice Young Woman: Oh, they'll go way up.

Me: And don't you think the government can't control this? What about the economy, and our jobs (we work in a fuel-dependent industry)? This MATTERS!

Nice Young Woman: I guess...

And so it went. She's the second person in so many days who's told me that this stuff isn't all that important because all politicians are the same and it doesn't make any difference. And they were both young people who SHOULD care. It's very discouraging.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Just venting.

[muntrv]

1. Another person who thinks ignorance is bliss.

[Book Lover]

2. Maybe she didn't want to talk politics at work

Maybe you intimidated her with your assertiveness. Maybe she didn't know how to disagree with you, an older coworker. Maybe you caught her off guard.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. That's not it, not at all.

I'm not her boss and I've never been at all assertive around her. She's a pretty assertive person herself. I think she's just one of many, many people who are not well-informed, who really don't care and don't know why they should.

[Matariki]

17. Just because you're not her boss doesn't mean she's comfortable talking about politics at work

I was always taught that 'polite conversation' avoids politics and religion. While I don't necessarily agree, I tend toward that 'rule' at work.

How did you start the conversation with her? Because your transcription of the conversation sounds a bit pushy on your part.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. The conversation just sort of wandered off that way.

I didn't start it or intend to be confrontational, and it was never hostile. My description is considerably condensed. At my work we always talk about politics. It's always a hot topic and nobody ever takes offense or gets nasty. We have some pretty good discussions, actually, even when we disagree vehemently. I can deal with disagreement a lot more easily than apathy.

[Benhurst]

5. Yeah, and maybe she's just dumb as a post.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. She's not. That's what made that conversation so frustrating.

If she were just stupid I could understand it. It's worse that she's intelligent but oblivious.

[Toucano]

3. Sorry 'bout YOUR day.

Tonight on her blog:

This coworker of mine was like giving me shit about politics. I was all like "I don't care" and my coworker was like "but you have to care" and I was like "what difference does it make" and my coworker was like "This MATTERS" and I was like "WHAT-e-ver!"

I've been there.

At least it's Friday. :cheers:

[Swamp Rat]

6. LOL!

:D

[donco6]

45. Snort. I weep for the young. n/t

[SocratesInSpirit]

7. Out of sight, out of mind

Unless they are personally affected by something, or witness the effects firsthand, many people just don't seem to have it in them to care. Sweatshops in China? Torture at Guantanamo Bay? Children work under brute slavery conditions in Africa picking cacao? The House/Senate quietly passes resolutions that limit personal freedom and privacy? "Well, I don't see any difference in my life!" :(

[Democrat 4 Ever]

8. Well, hopefully for every young person like her there are two like

my granddaughter and her friends. They are getting to vote for the first time in a presidential election and they are so excited. They are active on their college campus, are worried about the future, three of the friends do not have health insurance and know they will be saddled with huge deficits along with their student loans. Last May they organized and gave fellow rides to people who needed to vote in the primary, they have gotten involved, they know the issues and they care - a lot.

I just got off the phone with my granddaughter and we made a deal that when Obama is sworn in next January 20th that I'd take her and three of her friends to DC to watch the historic moment. We won't snag any invites to any of the inaugural balls but we'll party hearty in the streets, watch the parade, get as close as possible to the oath taking. I told them we would watch history together. They are so excited. Now, we have got to find extra, super cheap lodging because we are going on a college cheap/sucky economy/tail end of the horrors of Chucklenuts & The Cabal method of travel. Can't wait.

Now this granddaughter's mother, not so much, completely not interest in national or world events. Runs me crazy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. That's good to hear.

I know there are a lot of young people who are getting involved in Obama's campaign -- I just don't see many of them. Sometimes I get discouraged because I go to political events and it seems like everybody's over 50, like me -- and I think, crap, I did all this shit 40 years ago, why do I have to do it again now?

So brava for your granddaughter and her friends. They need to get involved because they're the ones who will have to live with whatever happens.

[That Is Quite Enough]

10. Oh yes, many of my family members are this way.

[orleans]

12. my experience with those who say all politicians are alike is this:

they are disenchanted republikas
who refuse to come clean/can't bring themselves to face the hypocrisy
and because of that, they put us in with them and talk about how both parties are shit and deviates and dirty

i remember that congressman from LA (jefferson) seemed to prove their point (in their small minds) ("well what about that guy JEFFERSON who had all that money in his freezer?????!?!?!?!?!) (expecting me to say: you're right, the democrats are destroying the country as fast as republicans)

kill me!


as for people like your co-worker, i view them as selfish, self-absorbed, trite, and stupid as hell. she's old enough to know better. shit! i was political when i was 12 for god's sake! there is just no excuse by the time you hit your twenties.

[Warpy]

13. Dumb fucks are the majority, especially since they've been lied to

by a corrupt and partisan press for nearly three decades now. They probably dutifully snap the evening news on while they're eating their takeout and trust the evening news to inform them. They don't realize how they're being lied to, misdirected, and offered tabloid fluff instead of the news they need to make decisions about their lives.

It will all come down to likability during the debates. If McCasket is the candidate, there is no way he will win that particular contest.

The low information voters are with us and will remain so until the corporate monopoly over the news media is either destroyed or forced to accept some public service guidelines they are not going to like.

You can't force these people to do the work to become informed. You can only answer questions when they ask. You might be appalled by their ignorance (as I am), but making them feel ignorant is probably counterproductive for most of them. They'll just get defensive.

[Matariki]

14. Maybe she doesn't want to be assailed by a co-worker and is being politely noncommittal?

Perhaps you should contemplate whether your approach is accomplishing what you'd like or just coming across as brow beating?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. That's not the way it went down, not at all.

We'd been having a long, friendly conversation about a lot of things. It wasn't until she told me she basically didn't care that I got to ranting a bit, but it wasn't ever hostile at all, on either side. She's quite assertive herself and not much inclined to be "noncommital." I think she thought I was a little nuts, actually. BTW, the conversation did settle back down to pleasantries regarding other topics.

[Matariki]

20. Ah, well then.

sorry. I'm baffled by that attitude too. Even in people I care a whole lot about.

[Javaman]

16. more of the, "it didn't happen to me so who cares" attitude.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

when they finally come for the dumb female 20 somethings I'm sure she will start caring then.

[Lorien]

22. I even hear it here on DU. "I'll never visit the arctic, so why do I care

if it melts?" "I'll never visit ANWR, so I don't care if they drill there". Me, me, me, me.....so many people can't think outside of themselves for a nanosecond.

[mdmc]

18. MOST people don't care

either they are comfortable or the are desperate. They know that things will never change, the corporations call the shots. They are either fine with it or furious. Either way they don't vote, vote Nader / Barr, or vote for whoever they think will win.

[Lorien]

19. I've had many conversations like that. I had one recently with one of my

art directors. He's 35, gay, and hates Bush, but he's still not totally sold on voting for Obama because "he has no experience. Maybe he's not ready to lead" :eyes: ( I set him straight on this, of course). Here's a recent exerpt from one of our converstions:

Me: so, did you see that the world leaders at the G8 summet ate an 18 course dinner while they were there to talk about the world HUNGER??

AD: Why were they talking about world hunger?

Me: Because rising food prices are starving millions of people all over the globe. People in Haiti are even eating cookies made of dirt.

AD: Why does anyone care about hunger? GAS PRICES is what they should all be talking about! Why aren't they talking about bringing down our gas prices?

Me: Well, fuel prices do impact the price of food, so it may be a topic, but this is a summit for WORLD leaders; they talk about global problems, not just the price of gas in the US. Gas is more expensive everywhere else.

AD: I don't care about other places. The price of gas is way too high here. We have to get it down! Do you think Obama will lower gas prices? I'll vote for whoever lowers my gas prices the most, because that's the big issue.

[lonestarnot]

24. The ignorance being discussed on this thread makes me want to chew iron shavings.

I do not know what if anything will ever cause an awakening. I think people are intentionally ignorant. They stay that way so that they can cope maybe? Sucks ass!

[Beregond2]

25. That's exactly it.

It's not that most people have no compassion, or don't understand how all this affects them. It is that they are in total despair, and if they think too much about it, they'll go crazy.

That, and laziness.

[lonestarnot]

39. When pressed with the issues, I've heard some come out and say, "I don't want to think about it."

:banghead:

[Lorien]

47. I think that many really DON'T care

I was talking to a former coworker a few years ago about wildfires that were burning down homes in a few neighborhoods in our city, and she said "Why would I care about it? They aren't near my house". I had pneumonia once and nearly died from it because most of my "friends" here in town wouldn't take me to the doctor for fear of getting sick themselves. There was no public transportation and a guy I knew did finally drive me there. He never got so much as a sniffle, and the doctor who treated me said that if I had put off coming in for another day or two I wouldn't have made it. It's a very cold world out there.

[dysfunctional press]

23. yeah...whatever.

like i care...

[otherlander]

26. Reminds me of the people I ate lunch with sophomore year.

In retrospect, I probably annoyed the crap out of them and came across as a showoff, constantly bringing up world events... but DAMMIT, there IS a world outside of track meets and high school romance!

[stillcool]

27. I have that conversation with myself...

It goes something like this. One of the best reasons for not learning about our plight is that it is too depressing and one can't do anything about it anyway. It takes too much time to read through the amount of information needed to get up to speed on anything. And then, even if you think you have reached a place of understanding, you realize that you can not know what is the truth. No matter how much I learn there is so much I can not, and do not know. The scope of the problem is overwhelming. So it's a huge waste of time and energy, when I can go about my life and do what I can in my little world to spread some sunshine. Voting in national elections is like buying a lottery ticket. True the odds are astronomical, but you have to be in it to win it. And the thing about information is that once you have it, you can't help but spread it. I won't get any prize, and can't know the results, but I can be one of many who kicks the can down the street.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. "Kick the can down the street."

I guess that's all I was trying to do. I'm hoping I got her to think, at least a little. All any of us can do is keep kicking the can, but that's something.

[stillcool]

29. I remember reading

somewhere that a miracle is the slightest change in perception. The whole world looks completely different with one teeny shift of view, and we can not know what impact we have. There have been many accidental encounters I've had with people in my life, that had a profound effect on my thinking. One lady was dying of cancer, had been estranged from her kids and come back to the area to die. I met her in a laundromat. Never saw her before, and never saw her again, but I will never forget her. She left her footprint on my soul.

[AndyTiedye]

30. You Are Mistaking Despair for Apathy

[Subdivisions]

31. 110% of the people around me could give a rat's ass about

anything beyond their own little worlds - especially politics and government. Funny though, they NEVER fail to complain about the results.

[Th1onein]

32. I tell these people exactly what I think of them:

You are a lazy, no good idiot who is responsible for the torture and death of many. YOU are complicit, because you do nothing. You're a traitor to your country, and a shitty person.

They don't like hearing it, but at least they begin to get involved then, if only to defend themselves and their position.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[baby_mouse]

34. ...you'll figure it.

Eventually.

[zippy890]

35. do ya love me?

ohhh yeah baby

[BuelahWitch]

37. Enjoy your stay!

Hope you like pizza! :hi:

[melm00se]

36. Personally

I think your conversation strayed in non-workplace acceptable and if I was your manager and the young lady brought it to my attention I'd've taken you aside and had a little chat with you about it.

Now as to the young lady herself: ignorant folks are a dime a dozen, that is just a fact of life. many choose to be ill-informed because to them it just doesn't matter (fortunately there is a decent chance that may change over time).

You have to be careful with folks like that, they can (and do) pigeonhole you in the same category as evangelical Christians: out to convert them to your cause/belief system and once that happens they will avoid contact with you and that would be sad.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

40. It is workplace-acceptable in my workplace.

Most of us are engaged and interested and discuss such things freely. We talk about politics all the time. I did not get the impression she took offense - just a bit surprised that somebody would take these things sos seriously.

[Township75]

38. Well, if all politicians arent' the same...

then why is a congress that already has overridden vetoes by the pres not done anything about Guantanamo? Why did so many Dems support Bush's IWR? When the Dems were in power why did we support legislation to send jobs to Mexico and China?

That doesn't mean I think there are no differences among politicians, because I believe there are, just that I can understand why people don't see a difference among them.

And now that I hear on NPR this morning that Obama now would support "limited" off shore drilling, I can see why people can think there isn't a difference among them. It seems that sooner or later, they all come to the same position on the same issue or at least move torwards it.

God knows if that weren't the case we may not have a war in Iraq or Guantanamo.

[seabeyond]

41. talking to father, husband and a friend about this. told them, to not know, be bothered, i think

wouldnt that be nice, so much easier than being angry. maybe they have something over me not knowing. ignorant bliss thing. they are certainly happier as in not being angry about things. but then i told these people it is because of them that we have gone this far and would continue to go further in loss of right and so much more. because they dont speak out. and really morally arent i doing what is right even though i have to feel the anger, disappointment, ect......

so, though they get to breeze thru life unlike me, i still have to speak out for all of them and what wusses they are i concluded, much to my husband, dad and friends amazement.

[MedleyMisty]

42. Humans, on the whole, suck ass.

If you've ever studied cognitive development - the age ranges are wrong. Most adults are still at the developmental level that they were supposedly supposed to grow out of around 10.

I find that thinking of it that way actually helps me accept it - to realize that they're mental children and that it's not their fault and that they're not doing it on purpose. They really just don't know any better. They're not choosing to be incredibly selfish and shutting off the world beyond their little ego on purpose. They literally can't not be selfish assholes. They're missing the tools to see outside of their ego.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. "All politics is local" Tip O'Neil

Until it affects them are affected personally, most people don't give a rip about politics or politicians.

Which is why Obama should win this election. More people are being affected by such things as gas prices and layoffs and less influenced by the standard flagwaving and celebrity nonsense.

As both candidates move more towards the "middle" many voters will see little difference (justifiably) and vote for whichever one catches their eye at the last minute.

[Township75]

44. Good points.

"Which is why Obama should win this election. More people are being affected by such things as gas prices and layoffs and less influenced by the standard flagwaving and celebrity nonsense.

As both candidates move more towards the "middle" many voters will see little difference (justifiably) and vote for whichever one catches their eye at the last minute."

I think you nailed it. Most people aren't political junkies, so they dont see much difference among politicians and vote for the one they like the most

[Carolina]

46. sad to say I see the same thing among too many

young people where I work.

You can damn sure bet if we had a draft again, your co-worker (and others like her would be singing a different tune)... since her boyfriend, husband, lover, SO could be called up.

Face it guys, Civil Rights, Vietnam, the Women's movement are what got so many of us booomers engaged in politics and life. It affected us and it was a part of our daily reality. Of course, back then we had a lesser corrupted media and no 24/7 infotainment.

Still, if some of these "oh whatever" kids had to risk life, limb and livelihood, they'd "get schooled" real quick and yes, it would matter.

Oh and before I get flamed, I'm the mother of a draft age son.

[donco6]

48. Dancing through life . . .

Dancing through life
Skimming the surface
Gliding where turf is smooth
Life's more painless
For the brainless
Why think too hard
When it's so soothing
Dancing through life
No need to tough it
When you can slough it off as I do
Nothing matters
But knowing nothing matters
It's just life
So keep dancing through

Thanks to Fiyero from "Wicked"

[Uncle Joe]

49. This sounds like she's a reflection of the corporate media's work.

If the corporate media don't sound an alarm, many people will snooze while dreaming about their own life as in staring at a single tree while the forest is on fire, if their tree isn't burning, they're ok. Some don't even notice the tops of their trees are beginning to blaze.

I see these people as still living in the illusory corporate media created false reality or *Matrix.


*See movie for details.

[roamer65]

50. To quote Frank Zappa..."Plastic people..."

She reminds me of his song.