Obama shifting on oil drilling...upsetting!

[litlady]

I never post editorials here but on this I will say I am so disappointed. Considering the much higher gas prices around the world and the lack of effect that would take place right now with drilling, I really think many in this country are being selfish and sacrificing the environment. I was even a little surprised when McCain shifted his position since he had some environmental legislation in the past. But I was counting on the Democratic congress standing their ground and I was hoping Obama would too. I have supported Obama though there are a few issues I don't agree with him on. But I will be very disappointed if he too bows to this current climate of complaint about this issue. I disagree with the candidates and many of the voters. It seems like many are simply reacting to a slight increase at the pumps and not thinking about the environment or the many other ways that economic issues or gas issues can be solved. Sorry, I am just frustrated by this. :(

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[skipos]

5. McCain says "Thanks!"

No railing from me.

[stillcool]

2. Me? I could give a shit..

about proposals to allow the oil companies to drill on the land they already lease if the respective states agree to it. I kind of doubt the states would agree, but then again I had doubts that the American people were the arrogant assholes we are portrayed to be.

[mckara]

3. Let 'em Drill, Drill, Drill...

Wherever and whenever they want.
When their new wells come in, and the prices remain high,
everyone will realize we need alternative energy sources.
Peak oil was in 2007.

[FarCenter]

23. There is only a few year's supply offshore

Only the Florida gulf coast, southern California and northern Alaska coaslines have much oil.

The Atlantic coast, Pacific coast north of Monterey, and the bight of Alaska are unlikely to have significant reserves.

There is probably no more than 20-30 billion barrels total or 1000 to 1500 days of US supply at the current consumption rate of 20 million barrels / day.

The sooner we drill it and produce it, the sooner it becomes clear that finding more oil is not the solution, and the sooner we can move on to implementing real solutions.

[Popol Vuh]

38. No problem

Then would you agree to allow me to collect all the tar that washes up on my local beaches and dump it on your property and build an unsightly refinery to spoil your view and local environment?

I am just saying...

[TexasObserver]

40. There are major shale oil reserves near your home. Are you good with strip mining there?

Will it be ok to knock down a few mountains in your area, make them big, gaping holes in the ground, as shale is removed and processed?

I believe we have to be flexible on drilling, but there are legit concerns about it, always.

[pscot]

4. You can't just say NO to drilling

and expect to get elected. We need new, smarter, tougher Leadership in the Senate and House. We have to Reframe this issue. Attack oil company profits. Talk about using the resource for all the people. Make sure any bill to lift the drilling ban includes an end to the depletion allowance and a windfall profits tax. Make the bidders "prove" any successful bid within a time certain. Increase the royalties that flow to the treasury. In short, put the Republicons on the ndefensive, and fight this on our terms not theirs.

[alarimer]

6. Yes, someone needst to highlight the fact that Exxon made RECORD profits

but it wasn't quite as high as Wall Street expected so their stock price actually fell. We are ALL just pawns of Wall Street.

Despite Exxons's profits they spent less than 1% on alternative energy. Fuckers. This has got to change. Obama is to chicken-shit to do anything about but so is everybody else.

[aspergris]

42. No, we are not

Many of us choose to particpate IN wall street.

I'd rather be an owner than a person who watches other own and profit.

[HughMoran]

7. You know, even if it does nothing for oil prices, it's not the most pressing issue IMO

It's not like these oil dereks don't already exist. They've been pretty reliable over the past many years, so let them have their infantile pacifier. In the end, it will fade into a non-issue - unless there is another big spill - then drilling will be banned again. Better than drilling in Alaska's wildlife sanctuary IMO.

[Beregond2]

8. I dunno. It might be worth it, to

take this issue away from the Repugs. It would take so many years to get it up and running, and even longer to have any effect, bt the time they are ready, we will have other energy sources ready to go. If we don't, it won't matter anyway, because we'll all be doomed.

[DuaneBidoux]

9. I'm not upset. He should say "okay...and you use the profits for alternative energy research."

God wouldn't that blow their fuckin' minds?

[jasonberlin]

14. That actually *is* what he's said!

He said he would only support it in the context of a much more comprehensive energy bill that would raise taxes on the big oil companies and use that money towards alternate energy sources. What he's talking about is a small drilling compromise in order to achieve a much larger and much more liberal goal.

[Virginia Dare]

41. Exactly, and now the repukes can't truthfully say..

Obama is against all off shore drilling.

[hisownpetard]

44. Obama's instincts just strike me as being so smart and so right...

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. When it comes to oil, nothing they say has come true.

Drilling in Alaska will not lower the prices. You can bank on it.

[Lorien]

12. Yep, just like attacking Iraq didn't lead to $20 a barrel oil

as Ruppert Murdock said it would.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Exactly.

They haven't been right about anything. That is why we have to point out their mistakes to them. At some point, they have to realize that they have faulty reasoning.

[LVjinx]

11. So faith based initiatives, warrantless wiretapping, and drilling are now part of *our* platform?

It's getting hard to keep up.

[spanone]

34. the center sucks

[TexasObserver]

13. Obama is limiting the issues which can be used as litmus tests.

[jasonberlin]

15. True and insightful!

[TexasObserver]

26. Obama has been smart making sure he doesn't get trapped.

He is a savvy basketball player, and he knows you don't let the opposing team double you up and trap you. You make sure you can dribble or pass out of any situation before they cut you off and trap you.

[TankLV]

31. umm - he's already been CAUGHT and SKININED...

he's way past the "trappped" stage...

He's essentially AGREED to do as the REPUKES have been demanding...

Try to spin it any way you wish - that's what has essentially happened...

Tis will be an LONG election in the coming months.

He should have done what he did with that surge-was-successful crap they UNSUCCESSFULLY tried to push on him...

[TexasObserver]

35. umm - you're talking gibberish

This must be your first presidential election.

Obama is running for president, and to win, he has to get middle votes. If he has to worry about your vote, he can't do that. You either vote for him because he's the best choice available, or you help someone terrible win. Which is it going to be?

[spin]

16. Our government should have had a comprehensive...

energy program years ago.

We had made a start to move toward green energy in the 70's during that oil crisis. The price of oil dropped and we basically stopped our efforts.

If we drill in the Gulf of Mexico in the currently off Limits areas we may be able to bring in new oil in as little as 18 months (because some infrastructure already exists). The mere fact that we open up drilling in those areas may drive prices downward.

But we need to view any new drilling as a very short term solution. A little research will show that plenty of really great alternative energy sources are available with current technology. It might take years to fully implement these new green energy programs but it can be done if we have the resolve. If we do nothing as we are right now, the price of gasoline might skyrocket if there is a war between Israel and Iran in the future or if oil demand continues to increase because of developing nations.

We were able to put men on the moon 40 years ago. In 10 years we can be truly energy independent and significantly reduce our dependence on oil. We need a shotgun approach to our energy problem where we use multiple technologies.

The bipartisan "gang of 10" has come up with some ideas that deserve serious consideration. We need to convince both parties to stop playing games and start doing what we elected them for...solve problems.

Tuesday evening, five Democratic senators met with five of their Republican colleagues to hash out a plan that would include far more drilling — from the land and from the sea — than would be allowed under any current Democratic proposal.

“There’s going to be substantially more drilling and substantially more conservation,” Sen. Mary L. Landrieu (D-La.) said of the plan her moderate colleagues are hoping to cobble together. “Democratic leaders are going to be pushed, and Republican leaders are going to be pushed.”

Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) said the new “Gang of 10” is just trying to overcome some “strongly drawn” battle lines that prevent party leaders from finding common ground.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11975.html

If we do develop green energy, we can sell the technology to developing countries and perhaps save the world from global warming.

[Sancho]

17. This could cost Obama Florida, the green vote will never go for drilling...

I'm very disappointed in a compromise on drilling. I'm also pretty ticked about the FISA vote.


:mad:

[spin]

28. I live in Florida...

and many people here support drilling off shore. Gasoline prices have convinced many people in Florida and in many other locations that we have to do something.

Green energy alternative programs are great but will take a long time to come on line. Drilling in the Gulf will by some estimates start delivering crude in as little as 18 months.

The "Gang of Ten", a bipartisan group of politicians, has proposed a shotgun approach to the energy program that does allow drilling but also develops alternative energy.

The New Era bill contains three main components:
• An intensive effort to transition vehicles to non-petroleum based fuels;
• a robust federal commitment to conservation and energy efficiency; and
• targeted, responsible domestic production of energy resources.
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/senate_gangs_new_energy_plan.html

What could hurt the Democrats in Florida and across the nation is if the Republicans convince the voters that it was the Democratic leadership that blocked the discussion and votes on a bill to allow drilling. Americans might buy into this as the Democratic controlled Congress adjourned for five weeks on Friday without doing anything about the energy crisis. If, God forbid, the price of gasoline climbs to five dollars a gallon by election time there will be hell to pay possibly for all incumbents in the race.

Playing the game of politics like it's a football game between two teams with only entertainment on the line has to end. If one team scores points but nothing gets accomplished it's the audience that loses.

Somehow I believe that the average American is beginning to turn his/her attention from American Idol and starting to develop an interest in national politics. This might be caused by the fact that when they open their wallet, there's little or no money inside.

[Maureen1322]

18. I agree with Obama on this issue.

Offshore drilling should be a part of a comprehensive energy policy
and the oil should stay in this country.

[Arkana]

19. It's pragmatism.

If the Republicans are going to be intractable, we can't be intractable as well if we want to get shit done--but that doesn't mean giving in to all their demands. Make renewable energy the centerpiece of a new energy policy with maybe more offshore drilling as a side dish--it'll quiet enough Republicans to pass, and we'll still get energy-efficient vehicles.

As much as all of you may hate it, we can't be what the Republicans were for the past eight years if we want to actually get shit done. If we get anything less than veto-proof majorities in both houses we will NEED to work with Republicans on some issues--and not all of them are like George Bush and John McCain.

[KharmaTrain]

20. The Devil Is In The Details

As always, the corporate media smells a way to turn shit into applebutter (or visa versa) and totally took what Seantor Obama and the Democrats out of context. But that's ok...let 'em...

And, because of it, some here aren't seeing the rope-a-dope Obama once again played on Camp Gramps.

He didn't say he was in favor of drilling...he said he was "open" to more exploration...looking for the oil, not setting up millions of offshore rigs. They can find the oil, but that doesn't mean they necessarily will be able to drill...that would require a battery of permits and hearings...hopefully going through a Democratic Department of Energy and then needing approval by the Congress and Senate.

The media can try to say that Obama is flipping, but it opens Gramps up to a one-two. First, Obama can easily cite Gramps own flip-flop on the issue...and then show (which he has already), the large contributions Camp Gramps has gotten from big oil as well as all the oily connections within the Gramps campaign. For those who want to drill, the issue is off the table...for those who are pissed about the high prices, Gramps can't hide behind drilling our way out of the mess. Plus, he loses a big argument that he thinks is getting some legs...and forces him to do what he doesn't want to...address real issues.

[Ichingcarpenter]

37. I wish more people would read the story and interview from the source

and not from headlines and snippets from other news agencies before drawing a conclusion. I think the stand
he took makes it a non hedge issue and that is not what the republicans wanted and
he defused the talking point.

Link to the palm beach article
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3717747&mesg_id=3717833

[Virginia Dare]

22. Even more upsetting if he loses because he takes a hard line against it..

the repukes have convinced most of the American sheeple that this is what needs to be done, so Obama is smart and come out and say he's open to SOME drilling. Take that talking point away.

[TankLV]

32. or, as is the case, CAPITULATE to the repuke position...

that's what has happened...even if you don't see it...not smart at all...

[dems_rightnow]

24. Energy is where this election will be won.... or lost

It's at the absolute forefront of the worries of most Americans.

It's a factual matter that most people now are in favor of offshore drilling. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe it won't help, people are ready to try anything. I believe it has become an issue where a candidate cannot afford to "buck the trend" of American sentiment.

Even if he doesn't support offshore drilling, he can no longer afford to say he doesn't. JMHO

[G_j]

25. THE GOP frames the debate once again!!

and it is completely bogus!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3718328&mesg_id=3718328

[TankLV]

33. sorry, but REALITY disagrees with you...

and no amount of spinning or "explaining" by obama will undo the damage...

what part of "absolutely no offshore drilling" to "offshore drilling is OK" don't you all get?!?!

THAT'S what has happened...

[G_j]

39. I hear you

I do get it, and am further pointing out that the whole 'frame' is bogus. Obama should be aggressively attacking the bull shit notion that off shore drilling will solve any of our problems. Letting the GOP and corporate media frame the debate shows nothing but weakness, IMO.,

[marmar]

27. I'm an Obama supporter but I'm not going to defend him on this....

.... and I agree, it is disappointing.

[TankLV]

29. He does a 180 on drilling, FISA, etc, etc. & all his spinning is making me dizzy.

He's played right into mcInsane's hands.

He's essentially AGREED and CHANGED his positions to match the REPUKES.

Sorry if you all can't handle the truth. But these actions will bite him in the end. No amount of spinning and explaining will change the REALITY.

obama CHANGED his positions 180 on these issues. Period.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Unfortunately, pandering to the right is considered a necessity in "winning".

What we "win" is questionable.

[aspergris]

43. we WIN the presidency

that's what's frigging important.

[Overseas]

36. We ONLY HAVE TEN THREADS ON THIS TOPIC so far !! Oh No, Let's Start Some More !!

Gosh we need a few more new threads on this topic.
The other nine threads said they were upset about Obama's willingness to consider oil drilling.
But most of them were in General Discussion -- Presidential, so we need five threads here to match those I guess.

[briv1016]

45. Would states still have the power to ban drilling off there shores?

I might agree to drilling under these circumstances:

1) State over-ride power

2) Windfall tax going toward alternative energy

3) Expiration date on current un-used leases with freed-up land going to alternative energies if climate allows. (Wind, solar, hydrothermal.)

[LeFleur1]

46. We're Killing the Planet

...and nobody gives a damn.

[briv1016]

47. The fact of the matter is if we do nothing the ban comes down on its own in a few months.

We have to use this as a stepping stone for alternative energy.

[RamboLiberal]

48. I personally think we should let them drill

Yes, I know all the arguments and that the oil is 10 years away, it's not U.S. oil but will just be part of the global market, etc. But I also know we are not going to wean ourselves off oil for quite awhile. Let's call the oil companies and Repukes bluff.

If we are going to use oil then why not be one of the suppliers of oil as well. Make the oil companies assure environmental safety. Hold them criminally and civilly responsible for any spills. We're hypocrites as one of the largest users of oil that we ban offshore drilling, drilling on some of our land and shale oil production but don't give a damn the damage it does in other nations.

Tax the oil companies windfall profits and invest it in alternative energy or in rebates to those of us getting hurt by the prices of energy.

And let's not let this country fall in to the trap that Reagan and the Republicans gave us if we get a temporary increase in oil and prices would fall. It won't last forever and we have to get off the oil dependence.

And lets also get programs going for alternative energy. Make every new commerical and residential building employ solar panels or some form of supplying their own electricity. Up the gas and diesel mileage of all vehicles. Get other alternative vehicle power options on line as soon as possible be they hybrid, hydrogen, electric, other. And lets make sure the that there aren't hidden environmental costs in that. Get industrial sized wind and solar power online. I'm even for exploring safe nuclear power if needed. If you're going to replace fossil fuels with electric powered cars you damn well better have the increased electrical capacity for that.

And if we don't make some compromise on this issue I'm afraid Obama and some Democrats are going to get their butts kicked come November.

[spin]

49. It might be better for the environment if we drilled for oil...

I doubt that other oil producing nations care as much about the environment as we do.

Of course, any drilling is only a short term solution. Some experts I've listened to on the 24/7 news programs have stated that drilling in the currently off limits areas of the Gulf of Mexico could produce oil in 18 months. There are plenty of other alternatives which could provide green energy using current technology. Wind power, wave power, geothermal and solar power are all great future resources of energy.

But we have to insure that Big Oil doesn't become totally responsible for developing these new programs. They would manage to delay development and continue to demand new leases for oil drilling in environmentally sensitive areas.

We need a well thought out plan for solving the energy crisis...one which which we should have implemented years ago. I am hopeful that the Congress under the new Obama presidency will work in a bipartisan manner to produce legislation to accomplish this purpose. We can sell the new technology to the world and make money at the same time as we save the environment and curtail global warming.