So, while people were bashing the Duggars for their choices

[MadHound]

Another family, in Canada this time, just delivered their eighteenth child <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080729/ap_on_fe_st/odd18th_child;_ylt=AqEAAi1uRxl6ax6xHTOAu0ys0NUE>

So where is the outrage over this? Why hasn't this family been smeared around here like the Duggars? Because they're Canadian? Because they're not fundamentalist? I find the fact that people are more than willing to insult and vilify the Duggars because of their religious preferences, while not saying a peep about the Ionces rather disturbing, a sign of the religious and cultural intolerance around here.

So these people want 18 kids, so what? Why do some people around here feel the need to vilify a family because of their choice of lifestyles?

Here's a link for the latest thread insulting the Duggars. Interestingly enough, there is no link to a thread vilifying the Ionces. That says a lot about this place.
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3690450#3691967>

[zanne]

1. I've never heard of these people

I doubt that most of DU has ever heard of them, either. How can we be criticial or support something that we've never heard of before?

[City Lights]

14. +1. nt

[Alter Ego]

115. Bingo.

[carlyhippy]

138. I've never heard of these people either, I guess they don't have their own website??

they obviously don't want to be in the spotlight, there are probably other families all over the world who aren't in the media spotlight who have dozens of kids.

[marmar]

2. Butter in the middle and on top, and a large Mountain Dew for me, please.....

:popcorn:

[Gman]

5. LOL!

[Gold Metal Flake]

6. Someone will be by shortly to post self-righteously about your snack choices.

[marmar]

11. LOL.....

:)

[Toucano]

70. Here it comes: Mountain Dew!

Why not just drink hemlock?

[Gman]

3. Blame it on the purist liberals

Since religion is not an issue with this family, then they're just exercising their right to have as many kids as they want.

[JNelson6563]

50. Here, take this

*hands over big cross* Drag this about the board a while, it will make your insinuation of religious persecution all the more effective.

Julie

[Dogtown]

64. OH noes!

The attack on Xmas continues!


Maybe it's because noone ever *heard* of these selfish clots that we haven't vilified them. Your only real complaint is our lack of clairvoyance.

[RainDog]

118. what the fuck is a "purist liberal?"

someone who disagrees with you? when ppl have stated here repeatedly that they didn't even know of this family, why do you respond immediately by attacking "liberals?"

Or are you someone who is offended that not all liberals kowtow to religious powers, or even respect them?

It's a good thing you weren't here during the revolution. You'd have had to deal with all sorts of powerful people who ridiculed religion... including the most imp. thinkers of the Enlightenment that inspired the constitution. The man who powered democratic rhetoric, Tom Paine. The man who became President Jefferson. Washington himself.

sorry if that's annoying to you. (actually not, but I will not apologize for having an opinion that differs from yours nor will I accept your definition of "purist liberals" for anyone whose opinion differs from yours.)

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

4. Why haven't you posted any threads critical of the Smith family of Hicksville, Oklahoma?

Oh yeah, because nobody has heard of them either.

[TwilightGardener]

17. ...

:thumbsup:

[meegbear]

7. Unable to find a link ...

could you edit and put it in? Thanks.

[MadHound]

16. I put in a link to the Ionce's story

Here is a link to the latest thread slamming the Duggars <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3690450#3691967>

Any other links needed?

[City Lights]

23. How 'bout a link to the Ionce's website?

The Duggar's have one, so surely the Ionce's do too, right?

[MadHound]

31. What is your point?

That we gleefully jump on people with websites, what?:shrug:

[City Lights]

59. My read on your post is that you don't see much difference between these

families, and you're irked because some are criticizing one family while ignoring the other. My point is that most of us have heard of one family - the attention-seeking Duggar family - but not the other.

Perhaps the reason some of us have been critical of one while ignoring the other is that one of the families is minding their own business, while the other is actively seeking fame.

It's kinda difficult to voice an opinion on a family one hasn't heard about until now.

For the record, I think they're both nuts.

[RainDog]

121. what is YOUR point?

people are not allowed to make fun of the Duggars b/c... why? If they choose to make themselves public figures, they open themselves up for comment. Are we allowed to make fun of Britney Spears and her little sister doing the white trash thing? Or is that forbidden too because it's not the lifestyle choice for others?

[carlyhippy]

142. probably the point of the Ionces aren't drawing attention to themselves

the Duggars put themselves in the spotlight, and with fame comes public opinion

[kegler14]

35. That was one very ugly thread.

Sad, and I'm not talking about the Duggars.

[RainDog]

122. really? why?

because you didn't like the opinions?

[LeftyMom]

85. What time is their TV show on? How did Mr. Ionce do in the last election?

One difference is that the Duggars are public figures by choice. They announced her last pregnancy on the Today show. He ran for office at the state level. They have a website where you learn how to make food that would embarrass army cooks, and take a photo tour of their house.

The other people have made an equally irresponsible choice, but at least they've made it privately. As a result, they're much less open to criticism.

[supernova]

8. Hemm.. they don't seem to be courting

a lot of publicity because of it? (Though, I'm probably sure they could use extra diapers. Who wouldn't?)

[kskiska]

9. Maybe because they don't star in a reality show.

[eShirl]

10. Do they have their own "reality" TV show, too?

If not, maybe that's why.

[DS1]

12. First I've heard of them, and they're equally shitty

So fuck them, too!

[Dogtown]

19. There you go, DS1

We can't hate 'em, if we never heard of them, can we?


This OP is just another obvious attempt to flamebait.

[MadHound]

24. No, this OP is trying to put some perspective on this place

I've found over the years that we've gotten a huge contingent on DU who are just as purist and close minded about issues concerning the left as RWers are about issues on the right. Thanks for being the latest example. Rather than engaging in a thoughtful, open discussion, all you want to do is throw insults and innuendo. Thanks for being part of the problem.

Heaven forbid anybody points out hypocrisy around here:eyes:

[Squatch]

29. You're talking about a community of over 100,000 people.

There is no "hypocrisy around here", rather merely an abundance of various opinions. You take the bad with the good around here, and sometimes you're going to find that you don't like the overall tenor of the place. But, that's not hypocrisy.

[MadHound]

37. Sure there's hypocrisy around here, which is the main reason I made the OP

I don't know the Duggars, I don't care about the Duggars. But I find the fact that this community is willing to slam this family for their eighteen children, while failing to do so with other such large families rather hypocritical.

What I find even more hypocritical concerns the issue of choice. If we are going to support a woman's right to choose not to have a child, then we also have to support a woman's choice to have many, many kids. If we don't that too is hypocritical.

[Squatch]

41. The community is not slamming this family, individuals are.

There is no unified effort to condemn the family, merely a bunch of individuals expressing similar opinions. You make it sound as if there is some formal committee organized that seeks to discredit families such as this.

I support a woman's right to have a brazillion kids, but I also have the right to say that I think the exercise of that choice is asinine, selfish, and stupid. There's no hypocrisy in that.

[El Pinko]

79. 100,000 registrations since the site started is not 100,000 posters.

A great many of that number have left, or been banned, but their numbers stay added to the tally.

I'm sure there are a lot of posters here - thousands, but I suppose only Skinner and his inner circle know the actual number of actual ACTIVE posters.


As for the widespread disdain for fundies, what does the OP expect? This is a centrist website, geared towards supporters of the less right-leaning corporate-owned US political party, not a website for the Christian Coalition or the ultra-rightwing fascist republican party. It's only natural that there would be little love for looneys who crank out tons of babies in an overpopulated world where millions of kids need homes, and who squandered their wealth on a house that looks like a Rodeway Inn to house all of their brood.

Screw the Canadian jerks who refuse to stop making babies and screw the fundie a-hole Duggars, but screw the Duggars more, because they are brainwashing a whole army of brats into the same fundie crap that made them turn their Mrs. Duggar into a baby factory in the first place.

[MadHound]

111. If you noticed, I referred to us a community of 100,000 people, not posters

That would take in those who post, those who lerk, etc. etc. Please read for comprehension next time you decide to pick nits, OK?

And hey, while we're at it, I suppose we can just say screw that liberal concept of tolerance too, hmm? After all, like you said this is a centerist web site, and judging from many, many posts, both in this thread and throughout DU history, tolerance is obviously not a centerist value.

[El Pinko]

136. I mentioned the poster count because I get tired of hearing the ludicrously inflated number.

This is a site with many positive traits - an excellent, user-friendly design, many bright and interesting posters.

There are also quite a lot of posters, as evidenced by the fast and furious pace of the posting, but there are most certainly not anywhere near 100K active posters. I don't know why the owners of the site engage in the puffery of using the count of people who have ever joined. They know how many active posters there are, but choose not to make public that number.

Whatever. It's a minor quibble, I know.

As for "tolerance", there is nothing "intolerant" about ridiculing people who behave in ridiculous ways, like the Duggars.

Intolerance is when people attempt to take away the rights of others, as the Duggars would like to to to women who may want to terminate their pregnancies, or gays or transsexuals or what have you. To my knowledge, nobody on this site is advocating taking away the Duggars' right to behave like selfish, hideously dressed, pious asses. They're just taking a well-deserved piss out of them.


As for "centrist" (synonymous with "liberal), I just like to point it out because I am a leftist and don't always feel like those of us who aren't cheerleaders for the corporate democratic party are 100% welcome here. If anyone is not tolerated, it's people whose ideology falls significantly to the left (or right of course) of the corporate democratic party. I could deal with being ridiculed. But I have seen people suspended or banned for not being centrist/liberal enough.

[Dogtown]

58. Out of the blue,

you came looking to pick a fight with your cherry-picked and very obscure example and then accuse anyone that points out your obvious flamebaiting as an insulter and purveyor of innuendo.

Immediatlely after calling me an "asswipe", which everyone knows is an invitation to thoughtful, open discussion.

There's your hypocracy, staring us in the face.

[Arugula Latte]

94. What's DU coming too when we can't dis overbreeding fundy nutjobs using up the Earth's resources?

I mean, come on. We need SOME entertainment...

[Dogtown]

13. If you don't like it here...

:eyes:

[MadHound]

21. Oh puhleeze Vulcan

You sound like all those shithead RW motherfuckers with their "love America or leave it" mentality. Gee, a little criticism from myself, a longtime poster, and the noobs come swarming out to tell me to leave:eyes:

What a fucking asswipe attitude:puke:

[Dogtown]

53. I didn't tell you dick

And my obvious use of a passe RW meme was apparently lost on you.


consider yourself wiped, ass.

[MadHound]

56. You obviously don't read for comprehension do you?

I repeated, and addressed, your use of your "passe RW meme", in fact almost repeated it verbatim. Sorry that my comments and retorts are going right over your head. Enjoy.

[Dogtown]

60. Pretend to condescend,

perhaps you'll appear more intelligent that way.

Irony. I used the phrase you've objected to as irony. I pointed out that I was using it ironically, yet you still miss the point.

I'll try to use more monosyllables, and not confuse you with any more literary artifice. If that will help you keep up.


The point you're laboring is only pertinent if your audience had been made aware of your example (prior to you flaming us for hypocrisy) and had then had failed to condemn them as you wish.

There's doubtless some family in Fuckyourselfistan with 24 rugrats you can pull out of a hat, too, Eyeroller.

[fl410]

61. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[MadHound]

106. Don't have to pretend friend

Your attitude and obvious intelligence level leave me little room to pretend.

But that's OK, go ahead and keep up your insults pal, meanwhile the adults will discuss things civilly without you.

[EOTE]

81. You obviously don't read at all, do you?

How many times has it been said on this thread that the Canadian family isn't known by anyone and that's why they're not receiving negative attention? You're OP makes a ridiculously stupid comparison. It would be akin to DUers starting a thread on a murder/rapist with lots of negative replies and you asking why this other, lesser known rapist isn't getting attention and then accusing DUers of hypocrisy for not decrying all murder/rapists in equal measure. It's a pretty damned stupid tactic. But you seem intent on using it some more.

[hfojvt]

92. it's kinda like the death penalty though

When Tookie was gonna be executed there was all kinds of noise on this board against the death penalty. In the twenty or thirty executions that have followed there has been relative silence. Similar to the Duggars, the people who start and participate in those threads could probably easily find many more stories of large families and start threads about those people. Instead of seeming to believe that the Duggars are Tigger.

[redqueen]

127. It's the same thing though... Tookie was in the media... the other executions

not so much.

Is it not way past stupid to expect people to comment as much on completely un-publicized things as much as they do on highly-publicized things?

[MadHound]

107. You obviously aren't getting the point either

Continue reading up and down this thread, maybe you'll get it. If not, oh well

[patricia92243]

15. I didn't know anything about them. I am an equal opportunity basher - if I had only known..

[Squatch]

18. Allow me to post a general rebuke of ANYBODY who has 18 kids

Please, feel free to refer to this rebuke any time you come across a family of 20 individuals:

"These people are sick in the head."

[MadHound]

40. These people are exercsing their right to choose

If you support a woman's right to choose to have no kids, then you also have to support a woman's choice to have lots of kids. Otherwise you're being hypocritical.

[Squatch]

44. Like I said...she can do whatever the fuck she wants, but I am still going to take the position

that having 18 kids is batshit insane. I do not have to both support her right to have kids and condone it.

[Dogtown]

66. That doesn't work either

If a woman chooses not to have children, nobody gets hurt.

If she chooses to have 18 kids she can't provide for, then parades them as a circus for her personal gain, that is going to affect these children immensely.

One choice is humane, caring and selfless. You pick!




Did the Charmin take care of that last clinging clump this time? Or should I prepare to wipe some more ass for you?

[MadHound]

112. Do you even read your own words?

On the one hand you condemn them for not being able to provide for their children, on the other hand you condemn them for having a television show that actually does provide for the children. Wow, you must be dizzy from all that spin.

[Indenturedebtor]

134. Allow me to generally insult everything about both families in another way

The Earth has too many people. Period. These people are irresponsible with their choices and should be generally condemned as stupid ignorant assholes. Anyone stupid enough to think that having 18 children probably isn't doing the genepool any favors either.

Now as soon as the Duggars and these other assholes use their clone army to build a bio-dome and eject it into space they can do whatever the hell they want. But until then I have a say as to what goes on in our shared biodome.

Stupid fundy earth rapers.

[Dogtown]

139. Fine misdirection.

Having more children than you can afford is wrong.

Selling your children to the media to make up for that fact isn't a reversal, it's compounding the crime.

All they've done is "privatize" the "welfare mother" scheme that the RW wants to pretend exists.

I condemned them for *both* abuses.


You're not really up to the task you've set for yourself; hence, your repeated patronizing attempts to misconstrue statements, and your weak attempts to "talk down" to folks.

You're not fooling anyone. The only bit of your rant that seems to work is the disruptive tactic of continuing a lost argument forever, wasting the time of progressives. Unluckily for you, I really have nothing better to do than show you for the fool you are.

[Marr]

77. It would only be hypocrisy if

people were saying the woman should've been forced to have her tubes tied after giving birth to her second or third child.

No one is saying that. No one is arguing that these people shouldn't have the choice of having so many children. They're saying they don't agree with their choice. That's not hypocrisy.

[ET Awful]

46. Agreed.

Not only are they sick in the head, but their children will most likely grow up with some major psychological issues from being used as daycare for each other.

I've known kids from families that large, and in every case, the kids were a mess. The older kids could hardly leave the house from having to care for the younger, and the younger were maladjusted from having to see their siblings as authority figures instead of siblings.

[malaise]

54. Ditto n/t

[Rowdyboy]

20. Yeah, I wondered the same thing....just didn't feel like taking the abuse you'll probably get

for pointing out hypocrisy.

[TwilightGardener]

22. Another woman squeezing out entire litters? Hell, add to her my "mockworthy" list.

These people are ridiculous. You're not supposed to have kids until your uterus drags on the ground behind you.

[MadHound]

27. Do you believe in choice?

Choice goes both ways friend, and if you believe in a woman's and family's choice to limit the number of their children, then you also have to support a woman's and family's choice to have lots of children.

Otherwise you and your viewpoint can be justifiably labled as hypocritical.

[fl410]

32. Defending the right to a choice is not the same as defending a bad choice.

...

[redwitch]

42. Excellent point.

Thank you! And welcome to the neighborhood! :hi:

[MadHound]

43. A "bad choice"?

For whom? For the Duggars or the Ionces? I think by now that if they had thought having lots of children to be a "bad choice" they would have put an end to it. But obviously they thought the idea of continuing to have children was a good choice for them, so they made it.

Again, when you support a woman's right to choose, you have to support her right to have no kids, a lot of kids, or some number in between. Otherwise you're being just as hypocritical as the right wing in this country.

[fl410]

55. I'm not proposing to forcibly neuter the daddies but I wouldn't shed a tear if someone did.

Are you really "concerned" about the criticism here, or do you actually believe having 18 children is a good thing?
:eyes:

[MadHound]

109. It's not the criticism that burns me, it is the hypocrisy

When you go on and on about a woman's right to choose, then you've got to accept that woman's choice, whether it is an abortion or a litter of kids. Defending the one option while vilifying the other is known as hypocrisy, and by engaging in such hypocrisy you mark yourself out as no better than the RW fundies.

[snooper2]

72. I think she should have 18 more kids...

She's bound to pop out a liberal athiest sooner or later...

That will fuck with their Gawd fawning ways :rofl:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[EOTE]

83. I really don't think you know what hypocrisy means.

Actually, I'm quite certain of it. Who here on the DU has advocated for a legal limit to the amount of children one can have? You really seem to want to just muck rake around here. Your logic is astoundingly bad.

[MadHound]

113. Go check out the DU thread I linked to in the OP

Check out the comments about "sewing it shut" and such. Sounds like advocacy for some sort of limitations to me:shrug:

A woman's right to choose is just that, her right to choose, whether it be to have no kids or a litter. Not supporting that right to choose, fully and completely, is hypocritical. Get it now?

[EOTE]

116. Give me a break. You'll hurt yourself reaching that hard.

NOBODY is advocating sterilization or taking away anyone's right to have kids. If that's what you're seeing, you've got more problems than I'm capable of dealing with. Once again you've shown your inability to use reason.

[MadHound]

47. To you these may seem like bad choices

For the individuals involved, it seems to be a good choice. Who are you to judge, you don't live their lives, walk in their shoes, so how can you judge?

[fl410]

57. I do not need to be a chicken to identify a rotten egg.

...

[redqueen]

75. ...

:hi:

[MadHound]

110. So much for that supposed left wing tolerance then, eh?

What, tolerance only if the person is making choices that you agree with? Can you say hypocrite?

[fl410]

114. I'm saying some choices are bad. Sorry if that's too difficult to grasp.

You keep using that word (hypocrite)...I do not think it means what you think it means.
:eyes:

[hogwyld]

80. When their poor choices affect the world in which I live

Then damn right I'm going to ridicule them. Having more than 4 or 5 children is just socially irresponsible. Think of all the diapers, and other resources that are going to be consumed by those offspring. The carbon emmitted over their lifetimes will lead to the collapse of the earth's ecosystem. Well, if there is a God, they'll be the first to go when things go to shit.
And before you call me a hypocrite, I'll condemn ANYONE, no matter where they live, or their religious beliefs, that thinks pumping out a litter is a responsible thing to do.

[Dogtown]

67. fl410, Ja rule!

:toast:

[TwilightGardener]

36. Am I on my way right now to their houses with a tubal-ligation kit?

Uh, no. Just offering my opinion on what I believe is a ridiculous lifestyle. I didn't say it should be an ILLEGAL lifestyle.

[Blue-Jay]

25. Never heard of 'em, but thanks for the scolding.

[fl410]

26. Never heard of them but since you bring it up, they are assholes too.

...

[MadHound]

28. Another hypocrite who thinks that choice should only be a one-way street

Yippee:eyes:

[fl410]

33. Not at all. I think people should have the right to say idiotic things!

...

[MadHound]

52. But apparently you think the matter of a woman's choice is a one way street

That is indeed hypocrisy.

[EOTE]

84. Another moron who doesn't know the meaning of the word hypocrisy. NT

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. um because they don't have a TV show?

[Canuckistanian]

34. Never heard of them. And I'm Canadian.

They must want to keep a low profile.

[dysfunctional press]

38. i can't find the ionce's show in the television listings...could you tell me when it's on?

thanks in advance...:hi:

[ProfessorGAC]

39. Ah, The Smell Of Sancitmony

From those you're bashing and from your OP. Perfectly symmetrical.
The Professor

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. Hey, no problem. The more kids they have

the more there will be to die when the entire fucking world ecosystem collapses from human overpopulation.

SIX POINT THREE BILLION.

DOUBLED IN THE PAST 30 YEARS.

We are so. fucking. screwed.

[Ilsa]

48. Some of us just happen to believe that

having 18 kids is as socially irresponsible as 18 adults, all going to the same place, each driving a Hummer there because they all want to drive a Hummer.

I also don't like the probablility that they'll raise these kids to hate everything that the Democratic Party stands for, meanwhile, they'll take their tax exemptions, their child credits, and vote against programs like CHIPS.

[JNelson6563]

49. Oh my!

Aren't we the self-righteous one!

Frankly the Duggars never merited mention from me here but I do think it's rather irresponsible to have 18 children. How much attention can you give them all? Nothing like burdening the older ones with parenting at an early age!

And this other family you mention, I never heard of them so they probaly aren't using thier irresponsible reproduction choices to become famous.

You think the hypocrisy here is a thing to marvel at? It doesn't hold a candle to the degree of self-rigtheousness we see at times. Like now.

Julie

[MadHound]

51. I think that having eighteen kids is a bit much also

But I'm not going to slam them for their choice because it is their choice.

As far as love, affection and care, well gee, that has always seemed to work out in many other large families, both past and present. Many of them were in the country whose flag you fly. Are you also going to condemn the Irish for large families?

Sorry that pointing out hypocrisy bothers you, but through constructive criticism we all learn and grow, at least most of us.

[JNelson6563]

76. Why yes, thanks for asking.

My grandfather, an immigrant from Ireland came over and got married. They had 8 kids and the wife died. He married again and had 8 more kids. Then he died. Left my grandmother with all those kids (tho' thankfully many from the first batch were grown by then and gone). She was uneducated, also an immigrant, and the poverty those kids grew up in was miserable. Of course that was back in the day where birth control wasn't readily available as it is now. Also, life expectancy was not what it is now. Still, yeah, it was irresponsible of my grandfather to go and create all these babies and it was horrible how they had to live at times. My own Irsih Catholic family and yes, I take issue with it tho' as I said, it was a different time.

Nowadays there is little excuse for such a thing. Yes, it's a personal choice how many babies you have. It's also a responsibility to the planet. Some don't take such things into consideration. I say that is not a good reflection on them. As far as hypocrisy goes, not here. My husband (ex actually) and I had and raised 2 babies. We did that on purpose, it was the responsible thing to do to not have lots of kids.

Julie

[redqueen]

128. Thanks for trying!

Great posts, thanks for contributing... :thumbsup:

[Catherine Vincent]

62. I know what you mean. Look at what this dude did to my car!

How come no one is outraged at that?!?!

[EOTE]

91. Oh crap, called out on my hypocrisy again!

Thank you for pointing out my shortcomings as a liberal. I know it's no excuse, but now that I'm aware that your car has been struck, I'm focusing as much of my liberal outrage towards the person who caused the damage as I'm capable of allocating. To save a little time, I'm working on a blanket condemnation to go out towards all four wheeled terrorists out there. Just be sure that if you incur any accidents in the future, I've already showered the perpetrator with my outrage and disgust. :beer:

[nam78_two]

93. I am!

That shade of red does NOT go with grey :grr: :grr: .

[Warpy]

63. I didn't bash them, exactly, but I did point out what happened

in my own family---the fertility rate dropped to next to zero in the generation of kids who grew up seeing Mom constantly pregnant with three kids in diapers and another half dozen at a time clamoring for attention they never got.

Nothing kills the herbal romance of growing up in a large family than actually doing it. My cousins say it was chaos. Most had no children.

[enid602]

65. Duggars

I think people find fault with the Duggars because most fundamentalist sects dictate that the wife be subordinate to the husband. I think they feel sorry for poor Mrs. Duggar.

[bigwillq]

68. Overpopulation is a serious issue.

I'm sorry, but I think it's selfish of these people to have that many kids. Just imagine all of the waste from diapers, etc, etc, etc...

Plus, those kids can't really be happy having all those siblings...once they're old enough they're nothing more than a babysitter...I don't think that lifestyle is healthy.

[nam78_two]

86. Yup.nt

[Marr]

69. Help me out here. Are you saying we're all anti-American, or just godless?

I can't tell.

[El Pinko]

71. God, what a nothing, who-cares thing to complain about.

Anyone who cranks out 18 kids in an overpopulated world where millions of kids need homes is an irresponsible, thoughtless a-hole in my humble opinion, regardless of whether they are fundies or not.

But if they are fundies, that makes them even bigger a-holes. Of course they will get more flack for it here. The vast majority of posters here dislike fundamentalists and its practitioners, and rightly so!

You act as though fundamentalism is not a bad thing. It is. Sorry if you don't think so, but there is absolutely NOTHING good that comes of religious fundamentalism and zealotry.

[MadHound]

105. I'm not defending fundamentalism

What I'm trying to point out here is the hypocrisy. First, the hypocrisy of cherry picking a family for this board to go off on, and even more so, the hypocrisy of preaching the sermon about choice, a woman's right to choose, etc., yet when a woman exercises that right in a manner that isn't thought to be correct, or right, or in agreement with our worldview, we vilify her. If we're going to preach about choice, then we need to accept those choices, in all their forms, irregardless. Otherwise we're no better than RW fundies and their intolerance.

And again, I'm not defending fundamentalism, why should I, I'm not Christian. However before you continue your little rant demonizing fundamentalism, keep in mind that there are many long time left wing fundamentalist churches out there, and many long time, left wing fundamentalist DUer's.

So just keep sticking that size twelve in your mouth there.

[RainDog]

117. the Duggars have made themselves the spokesfamily

for the "Vagina Clown Car" league. I'd never heard of this other woman... maybe because she, unlike the Duggars, doesn't pimp out her kids on tv for the glory of god. But, sure, I'd be happy to also ridicule that woman or any other woman who has that many kids.

there used to be a concern called zpg. replace yourself on this earth if you must reproduce rather than adopt, but do not add to the burden of sustaining the number of humans on this earth. that's the reason for a lot of opinion on this subject. (fwiw, I'm a mom of two...I practiced what I preach.)

Choice for females to end a pregnancy has a long history of struggle against mostly religious types who claim they should be able to legally decide how you live. No one is telling the Duggars how to legally live their lives. There is a great, great diff. between ridiculing a family who presents themselves as some sort of wonderful life choice and blowing up a planned parenthood b/c you don't like their legally-sanctioned activities.

big difference. I can support choice and NOT support everyone's choice... including if that choice is abortion. get the difference?

btw, irregardless isn't a word. the word is "regardless."

The Duggars are a family you would invent if you wanted to parody certain views. Instead, they created themselves, complete with matching dresses and sports coats. So, I'm not allowed to make fun of them because it offends you?

[RainDog]

119. someone had to do it...

[redqueen]

73. It says they don't have a reality tv show and a thread here.

If you'd just posted a thread about them without your primadonna holier than thou lecturing bullshit, you would have got the exact same responses.

Sad.

[Rainbowreflect]

74. Personally I find anyone who has that many kids, or even half that

many kids, selfish. I couldn't care less what their religion is, I just believe that over population is a big part of many of the worlds problems. Just my opinion.

[slackmaster]

78. That's different

They're Canadian.

:dunce:

[knitter4democracy]

82. With the hundreds of new posts every day, I'm sure we miss stuff.

Heck, I've seen news posts on my Comcast home page that don't show up in LBN. Does that mean that we've censored it? Nope, just that no one's posted it yet. So, now you've posted about them. Thanks.

[Scout]

87. now that i've heard of them, here you go

they are entitled to have as many children as they want, and i am entitled to voice my opinion that they are crazy, selfish, mouth-breathing breeders.

happy now?

[Sequoia]

88. Because the parents don't dress their kids alike and

don't live in a dorm like setting, or have bible study every day, or brag about how they love Jesus more than smaller familes perhaps? I bet those Candian Romanians dance and have a good time and are very happy too.

[Midlodemocrat]

90. Well, for what it's worth

the Duggar children look pretty happy to me.

[Sequoia]

104. I'm sure, but that's just show biz.

Lord knows when they misbehave and dad takes them out to the barn with the hickory switch. Just kidding...spare the rod, spoil the child...I'll wager dad's for all that.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. Don't You Get It? Some Here Are Just Bitter Immature Fucks That Look For Any Reason To Whine And

rant.

Ooooooohhhhhhhh religion time to bitch. Oooooooooohhhhh, SUV, time to bitch. Oooooooohhhhh, american flag on a house, time to bitch.

They look like fools.

I see nothing wrong with the Duggars and their children seem beautiful. The hatred towards them speaks volumes as to the maturity levels and rationality of those spewing it.

[Bill McBlueState]

98. your subject line is pure gold

:rofl:

[Snarkturian Clone]

137. That about sums it up right there. NT

[The Stranger]

95. Imbeciles reproducing out of control on an already-overpopulated planet because they think "God"

wants them to do so deserve everything they have coming to them.

[petronius]

96. I saw those "18th baby" headlines and thought it was the Duggars

Didn't bother to read the articles, so I've not (before now) heard of the Ionces.

That said, I'm not sure why you think reproductive choices are exempt from criticism - people on DU are able to extrapolate from their own educations and life experiences to form opinions on pretty much any topic out there, and it's perfectly valid to conclude that 18 kids is a poor choice. Further, when commenting on a topic that we're not personally involved in, it's not hypocritical at all to focus on the most visible example...

[treestar]

97. Baloney, 18 kids is too many, regardless of nationality

It's bad for the kids. They're doing it for their own reasons. But how can they have enough time and attention for all those kids? It's going to take its toll eventually.

[LynneSin]

99. Because the media hasn't spent the last decade shoving this family down my throat

Personally I don't care how many children you have. What I do care is when the media promotes these people as some sort of glorious family when all they are doing is outbreeding out planet.

[Lorien]

100. It's child abuse, not a "choice of lifestyle"

I used to live in a Catholic community, so I know what happens to huge families; there are only so many hours in a day so many children in enormous families end up neglected. There's no possible way for the parents to spend "quality time" with every child; many children end up raising themselves or being raised by the other children. Our next door neighbors (parents of 13) were always struggling to feed and cloth all of their kids. Two of their girls had unwanted pregnancies by age 13, three of the boys had lengthy arrest records, and then theres the environmental toll caused by huge families. The planet cannot support the nearly seven billion that we have already. Most major ecosystems around the world are currently in collapse (read through a few pages in the environment and energy forum if you doubt this). It seems like almost a sick hording behavior to me; if a couple had 18 dogs or cats, people would say that they needed help, but 18 children and they are told that it's a "lifestyle choice" or given a pat on the back? Kids take far more time and effort than pets,or they SHOULD.

[AlCzervik]

101. people are entitled to their opinion. No one forced anyone to post here.

[ProfessorGAC]

102. Yeah? Tell That To The Guy With The Gun At My Head!

He forces me to post here.
The Professor

[AlCzervik]

103. well i guess you're the exception.

:7

[KG]

108. some days, DU is pure comedy gold.

:rofl:

[nam78_two]

129. This thread is hilarious

OP huffs and puffs with outrage over why fundie family #1 is mocked while fundie family #2 is not, so a bunch of people obligingly show up to mock fundie set #2 (which I don't think was what the OP wanted) :rofl:.
I would send this over to JeffR except he seems too good-natured to mock even these Duggar ding-dongs :).

[ColbertWatcher]

120. Where's the outrage? I've never heard of them.

But, now that I have, time to make fun of them too.

Get a hobby Alexandru, your wife isn't a puppy mill.

[unpossibles]

123. ok, I will make fun of them too. Had not been aware until now; thanks for the info.

feel better?

I think it's a shame to breed like this, personally, but I've never said it should be illegal, just that it's immoral, imo, regardless of religion, or why.

[depakid]

124. Think it could be that hardly anyone heard about it?

:think:

Frankly, posts like this that apologize for fundamentalist behavior are insulting to responsible people all over the planet. Attitudes like this are a BIG part of the problem in this country- not part of the solution.

[flvegan]

125. Sound kind of fundamentalist to me, btw.

I'd also never heard of them, and don't really care how many kids they choose to have. That's a big carbon footprint, so I'm not exactly in favor of 18 children.

But anyway:

"We never planned how many children to have. We just let God guide our lives, you know, because we strongly believe life comes from God and that's the reason we did not stop the life," Alexandru Ionce said.

[LondonReign2]

126. Are you unable to grasp

that NO ONE HAS HEARD OF THESE PEOPLE?!?!?! And therefore it is impossible to be hypocritical about something of which you are unaware? Yet you prattle on and on and on about hypocrisy. Do you not understand that??

[Raine]

130. Maybe because they aren't all over the airwaves

with a TV show. :shrug: I never heard of them but I'm an equal opportunity basher with people who have 18 kids so if I get the chance I can take a "hit" at them. :silly:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

131. All right, listen...

Both families are just... awful.

[Indenturedebtor]

132. We're mostly Americans that's why... AND religion factors heavily into the Duggars stated choice

My choice of lifestyle includes clubbing baby seals and eating them raw for breakfast. After that I get my rocks off pouring motor oil into your drinking water, and break for a brief lunch on bald eagles (the females and babies are especially tasty). After lunch I like a brief nap, and usually I take a crap in your neighborhood swimming pool. In the evening I like to set fire to mountains of used tires and roast marshmallows.

Are you going to protect my lifestyle choice too? Or just some grotesquely irresponsible and harmful choices and not others?

[nam78_two]

133. ...

ZOMG NOES YOU ARE IMPINGING ON MY FREEDUMBS!

Good post :thumbsup:.

[Indenturedebtor]

135. Hey look if I can afford baby seals for breakfast... :P n/t

[Iggo]

140. Who the fuck are the Duggars?

[carlyhippy]

143. I actually had never heard of them before until I joined DU

I had no idea people could have that many kids, how do they keep up with them all?

[Blue_Tires]

141. never heard of them...

i guess maybe they don't seek the media spotlight like their american counterparts do...

but if it makes you happy, i'll say the same thing i said in the duggars thread:

dude... just get snipped already!