Simplifying, regarding "pit bulls", your opinion

[uppityperson]

In order to let the thread on helping a family who was attacked by a dog continue to be about the family, let's simplify and post our strongly held opinions here.

[uppityperson]

1. I'll go with the combination of all dogs are capable of being vicious and

Owners who treat or train their dogs to be vicious should be neutered, knowing that no one will neuter owners, but still.

[JerseygirlCT]

19. Yup - add me in there, too. nt

[pnwmom]

21. I will go with both those points but add a third.

Some breeds (or breed mixes) are deliberately bred to be guard dogs or to be fighters, and so they pose an extra risk and an even greater need for careful training.

[flvegan]

2. I'm deliberately staying out of that thread for that reason.

The quick look I took in there shows that too much stupid is already present there.

I think they should stop breeding people because they hurt too many other people. Sound logic? Course not. Same with pit bulls.

[TexasObserver]

3. An animal bred to have a large, deadly mouth, a strong body, and a fighting nature

Sure, blaming bad owners is appropriate, but the breed is designed to inflict major injuries, and that's why when they attack, it's such a disaster.

It's like owning a .22 single shot rifle versus owning an assault weapon that is fully automatic. Obviously, owner responsibility of both guns is important in safety, but when either is used for killing, the assault weapon is far more dangerous.

The problem with large dogs that have big, deadly mouths is that they may be very well behaved when their owner is present, but put them out in yard or place where there is no one they know present, and stick a kid in that same space. They perceive children as prey, not as little adults. Little kids will run up on and surprise dogs. Even the best of breeds can eat a little kid's face off when the dog is surprised, but Pit Bulls inflict deadly damage.

Every day in America, dogs deliver vicious bites to children, and in most cases the owner will swear the dog "never gave any sign of doing that!" Sometimes, the child attacked is the child of the owner of the dog. Or, it might be a child visiting the home.

I favor strict liability for dog attacks on humans, and criminal charges of negligent homicide for anyone whose dog kills a human.

[uppityperson]

5. And your subject line does show an issue.

Most dogs are not "bred to have a large, deadly mouth, a strong body, and a fighting nature". Some are, but most aren't. Having lived with dogs, both large and small, and mostly from shelters, none of my dogs were "bred to have a large, deadly mouth, a strong body, and a fighting nature". However, some of them were large headed short haired dogs which people called "pitbull".

The problem with ANY dog "is that they may be very well behaved when their owner is present, but put them out in yard or place where there is no one they know present, and stick a kid in that same space. They perceive children as prey, not as little adults. Little kids will run up on and surprise dogs. Even the best of breeds can eat a little kid's face off when the dog is surprised", I know, I have been attacked by a couple dogs in their owner's yard when I was a kid, and they were medium sized dogs.

"Pit Bulls inflict deadly damage" can be true, but no more so than any dog of the same size. My current mixed rott/golden has a big head and could really hurt me if he thought he was king dog, but I am obviously queen dog.

"Every day in America, dogs deliver vicious bites to children, and in most cases the owner will swear the dog "never gave any sign of doing that!"" I agree. Every dog is capable of biting, and often they have not bit anyone before. Every dog is capable of biting. Those who have been mistreated or abused are more likely, but every dog is capable.

I took a dog to a shelter to be killed once. He was a husky/wolf mix and was dangerous. We tried to have him as a pet, very hard, but as he got to be an adult (neutered as a pup) he decided HE wanted to be alpha in the house. When he stared me down with a lifted lip and a growl as I tried to walk past him, I knew his time was limited. It broke my heart, but no way was I going to let him go to someone else and bite them.

Every dog can bite.

[TexasObserver]

18. You really understand dogs well.

A dog that thinks it is in charge is a dangerous dog. One of the worst kind of owners is the one who allows their dog to be in charge. Once a dog perceives itself as being the dog in charge of the home, he or she becomes hyper vigilant and much more aggressive. The good owner knows to make the dog kiss his or her royal ring, if they want to keep control of the animal.

I agree with the notion that bad owners are the core problem, but most people don't realize that the majority of bad owners are not out there training their dogs to attack. They're people who don't understand that dogs are wolf derived animals, and at their center they respond to those wolfen instincts, one of which is to be a pack animal with an identifiable leader. The most dominant, aggressive animal is naturally that leader. Such animals want to force the animals around them to display submissive behaviors. It's in their DNA.

Any dog, even that puppy like old golden retriever that grew up with kids, can deliver a quick and severe bite. For children and the elderly, such a bite can inflict major harm or death.

[Texasgal]

4. Neuter your PET

DO not chain your dog.

DO not train your dog to attack.

DO not ignore your dog.

DO not ignore general health and immunizations.

DO not obtain your dog for the sole purpose of protection.

I could go on and on about what makes a dog bite!

This has NOTHING to do with BREEDS period. It has EVERYTHING to do with dumbass owners who have no clue. PERIOD.

[uppityperson]

7. True, and it has to do with being a dog.

Mostly, what you say is true, very much so. The only thing I'd add is every dog is capable of biting and sometimes it happens even when you are the best owner in the world. Recognize your pet is NOT a little 4 legged person but a dog. That is what I'd add.

[Texasgal]

11. Of course a dog

is capable...any breed is!

Owner responsibility is key to help these sort of things from not happening.

[elocs]

6. Yes, all dogs are capable or being vicious,

but how often do you ever hear of somebody who was severely mauled by a Chihuahua, or even a beagle?

[uppityperson]

14. True, but that is becase they are smaller dogs, not due to breed.

Larger dogs can do more damage, like a cougar can do more damage than a bobcat (trying to come up with 2 different sized but wild/domestic comparable cats).

[csziggy]

15. My sister's Chihuahua mangled our mailman's Achilles tendon

leaving him with a permanent limp - and a hatred for small dogs. The same little yapper also attacked a pair of Doberman Pinschers more than once.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

16. Chihuahuas are mean little fuckers!

I hated Pit Bulls after my little dog was attacked by one. Then my grandson bought one. This dogs total function in life is to be petted and loved. I guess it's like anything else in life. Some breeders (the Bush family) produce sociopaths, others spawn Ghandi. Same breed, different results.

[uppityperson]

8. For those who by god know what a pit bull is, try one of these quizes

How did you do?

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html
http://www.coldsteelpits.com/coldsteelfindthepitbull.htm

[PeaceNikki]

9. I think that, for a website that constantly criticizes the media,

there are a LOT of people here who buy into the overblown bullshit HYPE about pit bulls that they "sell".

[flvegan]

10. Total pwnage.

Good post.

:thumbsup:

[uppityperson]

13. Yup. I am amused by it, and saddened by it also.

Time to revive "stridently held opinion based on pseudoscience but I'm right"? Naw.

[Radical Activist]

17. Yes, it happens every time someone is severely attacked by a pit bull.

So, pretty often. Crazy.

[PeaceNikki]

20. You don't hear about every "attack" when it's not a pit bull.

There are plenty of those, I assure you, they just don't make the news.

[east texas lib]

12. Any dog can bite or be made mean.

When some neighbours moved three years ago they abandonded a pit bull puppy, "Cheeto". My wife heard
a dog crying one day and found her in the back yard, starving and covered with fire ants. We took
her in and raised her, seeing to it that she receieves a lot of affection as well as proper medical
care and nutrition. Our experience has been positive, although she does have to endure the abuse of
being a chew toy for a younger red tick hound. Treat a dog well and they will most likely do the
same to you and yours!

[Occam Bandage]

22. All dogs are capable of being dangerous, and of being docile. Pit bulls have less room for error.

[ismnotwasm]

23. I like Pit bulls

As a breed I really do. I've had one, my daughter has one, and was a pit bull advocate when she lived in California. They are dog aggressive and people friendly, territorial animals. They're smart and funny and devoted.

What I dislike is the neighbor down the street who is letting their pit and something mix run around the neighborhood, without regard for the dog or anyone else. Next door neighbor has threatened to shoot it. Three blocks away, another person I know, who is just great with animals when she's sober, had her dog shot by the police when they pulled up to her house for one thing or another and were greeting by a loose Pit bull running at them.

What I dislike is the lame ass attempt at street cred in my neighborhood some try to accomplish by having a Pit. (I live in the kind of neighborhood where there is bound to be gambling on dog fighting somewhere)

What I really dislike is that thousands of animals have to put down because of irresponsible owners with their fucked up irresponsible breeding.

And what I really, really dislike is breed specific hysteria. Not even out of dog sentiment, but because it accomplishes nothing for animals or victims of dog attacks. Nothing.

[uppityperson]

24. Traveling across country with a "pit bull" mix, amazing # of macho young men

approaching we 2 women with praise of the "wow nice pit bull" when the friendly fuzzy beautiful brown dog is wagging away and being ignored. Yeah, we're thinking "f* off ass*s" back to them.

Breed specific hysteria tend to sell ad space, more viewers will look at a "omg pit bull ban" article than "omg biting dog ban" article. And yes, it really doesn't address the issue of dog bites, for the dogs or for the people. It misses the real issue for "sexiness" which is hysterical crap.

[ConsAreLiars]

25. The type of thinking that labels a group and then typecasts all the individuals within that group

according to some preconception is very dangerous. As with humans, the differences within any group (defined by "race" or gender or geographic location or language or age or anything) are ALWAYS far greater than the average difference between those classifications. Except, of course, for the characteristics that are used to define the group in the first place. It is the same form of "reasoning" that uses stuff like health, education or income stats to support discriminatory policies.

It so happens that the gentlest dog I have known was a pit bull. Would not fight when attacked, much less attack. Very effective as a therapy dog with some severely challenging populations. Of course, that does not mean all will have that same temperament. Had a surly Basset which would bite. Doesn't mean they are all that way.

Even most of Michael Vick's dog's, viciously abused and trained to fight, could be rehabbed:

Of the 49 pit bulls animal behavior experts evaluated in the fall, only one was deemed too vicious to warrant saving and was euthanized. (Another was euthanized because it was sick and in pain.)

More than a year after being confiscated from Vick's property, Leo, a tan, muscular pit bull, visits cancer patients as a certified therapy dog in California. Hector, who bears deep scars on his chest and legs, recently was adopted and is about to start training for national flying disc competitions in Minnesota. Teddles takes orders from a 2-year-old. Gracie is a couch potato in Richmond, Va., who lives with cats and sleeps with four other dogs.

Of the 47 surviving dogs, 25 were placed directly in foster homes, and a handful have been or are being adopted. Twenty-two were deemed potentially aggressive toward other dogs and were sent to an animal sanctuary in Utah. Some, after intensive retraining, are expected to move on to foster care and eventual adoption.

From http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/article679730.ece

(edit minor typo)

[Kitty Herder]

28. Excellent points. nt

[Edweird]

26. I have a rescue pit. Exceptional animal.

Smart, funny, loyal, loving...
All dogs can bite. All large breed dogs can kill you. Pits are victims of their popularity and irrational histrionics.

[readmoreoften]

27. All the vets wanted to put down the puppy we found because he looked like he had pit in him.

We found some people who wanted to take a chance on him. When he grew older he turned out to be a blackmouth, not a pit at all.

90% of people can't pick a pit bull out a crowd of dogs. Apparently not even vets.