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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:29 PM
Original message
"...we ran out of wood and I burned my mother's dining room furniture. I have no oil for hot water."
Matt Taibbi's blog
It's a Class War, Stupid: Election season will be packed with distractions, but the real issue is a matter of life and death
by Matt Taibbi | July 19, 2008 - 10:40am
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/15955

"I am a single mother with a 9-year-old boy. To stay warm at night my son and I would pull off all the pillows from the couch and pile them on the kitchen floor. I'd hang a blanket from the kitchen doorway and we'd sleep right there on the floor. By February we ran out of wood and I burned my mother's dining room furniture. I have no oil for hot water. We boil our water on the stove and pour it in the tub. I'd like to order one of your flags and hang it upside down at the capital building... we are certainly a country in distress."
— Letter from a single mother in a Vermont city, to Senator Bernie Sanders

<<snip>>

A few weeks back, I got a call from someone in the office of Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. Sanders wanted to tell me about an effort his office had recently made to solicit information about his constituents' economic problems. He sent out a notice on his e-mail list asking Vermont residents to "tell me what was going on in their lives economically." He expected a few dozen letters at best — but got, instead, more than 700 in the first week alone. Some, like the excerpt posted above, sounded like typical tales of life for struggling single-parent families below the poverty line. More unnerving, however, were the stories Sanders received from people who held one or two or even three jobs, from families in which both spouses held at least one regular job

— in other words, from people one would normally describe as middle-class. For example, this letter came from the owner of his own commercial cleaning service:

My 90-year-old father in Connecticut has recently become ill and asked me to visit him. I want to drop everything I am doing and go visit him, however, I am finding it hard to save enough money to add to the extra gas I'll need to get there. I make more than I did a year ago and I don't have enough to pay my property taxes this quarter for the first time in many years. They are due tomorrow.

This single mother buys clothes from thrift stores and unsuccessfully tried to sell her house to pay for her son's schooling:

I don't go to church many Sundays, because the gasoline is too expensive to drive there. Every thought of an activity is dependent on the cost.

Sanders got letters from working people who have been reduced to eating "cereal and toast" for dinner, from a 71-year-old man who has been forced to go back to work to pay for heating oil and property taxes, from a worker in an oncology department of a hospital who reports that clinically ill patients are foregoing cancer treatments because the cost of gas makes it too expensive to reach the hospital. The recurring theme is that employment, even dual employment, is no longer any kind of barrier against poverty. Not economic discomfort, mind you, but actual poverty. Meaning, having less than you need to eat and live in heated shelter — forgetting entirely about health care and dentistry, which has long ceased to be considered an automatic component of American middle-class life. The key factors in almost all of the Sanders letters are exploding gas and heating oil costs, reduced salaries and benefits, and sharply increased property taxes (a phenomenon I hear about all across the country at campaign trail stops, something that seems to me to be directly tied to the Bush tax cuts and the consequent reduced federal aid to states). And it all adds up to one thing.

"The middle class is disappearing," says Sanders. "In real ways we're becoming more like a third-world country."


Here's the thing: nobody needs me or Bernie Sanders to tell them that it sucks out there and that times are tougher economically in this country than perhaps they've been for quite a long time. We've all seen the stats — median income has declined by almost $2,500 over the past seven years, we have a zero personal savings rate in America for the first time since the Great Depression, and 5 million people have slipped below the poverty level since the beginning of the decade. And stats aside, most everyone out there knows what the deal is. If you're reading this and you had to drive to work today or pay a credit card bill in the last few weeks you know better than I do for sure how fucked up things have gotten. I hear talk from people out on the campaign trail about mortgages and bankruptcies and bill collectors that are enough to make your ass clench with 100 percent pure panic.

None of this is a secret. Here, however, is something that is a secret: that this is a class issue that is being intentionally downplayed by a political/media consensus bent on selling the public a version of reality where class resentments, or class distinctions even, do not exist. Our "national debate" is always a thing where we do not talk about things like haves and have-nots, rich and poor, employers versus employees. But we increasingly live in a society where all the political action is happening on one side of the line separating all those groups, to the detriment of the people on the other side.

We have a government that is spending two and a half billion dollars a day in Iraq, essentially subsidizing new swimming pools for the contracting class in northern Virginia, at a time when heating oil and personal transportation are about to join health insurance on the list of middle-class luxuries. Home heating and car ownership are slipping away from the middle class thanks to exploding energy prices — the hidden cost of the national borrowing policy we call dependency on foreign oil, "foreign" representing those nations, Arab and Chinese, that lend us the money to pay for our wars.

And while we've all heard stories about how much waste and inefficiency there is in our military spending, this is always portrayed as either "corruption" or simple inefficiency, and not what it really is — a profound expression of our national priorities, a means of taking money from ordinary, struggling people and redistributing it not downward but upward, to connected insiders, who turn your tax money into pure profit.

You want an example' Sanders has a great one for you. The Senator claims that he has been trying for years to increase funding for the Federally Qualified Health Care (FQHC) program, which finances community health centers across the country that give primary health care access to about 16 million Americans a year. He's seeking an additional $798 million for the program this year, which would bring the total appropriation to $2.9 billion, or about what we spend every two days in Iraq.

"But for five billion a year," Sanders insists, "we could provide basic primary health care for every American. That's how much it would cost, five billion."

As it is, though, Sanders has struggled to get any additional funding. He managed to get $250 million added to the program in last year's Labor, Health and Human Services bill, but Bush vetoed the legislation, "and we ended up getting a lot less."

Okay, now, hold that thought. While we're unable to find $5 billion for this simple program, and Sanders had to fight and claw to get even $250 million that was eventually slashed, here's something else that's going on. According to a recent report by the GAO, the Department of Defense has already "marked for disposal" hundreds of millions of dollars worth of spare parts — and not old spare parts, but new ones that are still on order! In fact, the GAO report claims that over half of the spare parts currently on order for the Air Force — some $235 million worth, or about the same amount Sanders unsuccessfully tried to get for the community health care program last year — are already marked for disposal! Our government is buying hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Defense Department crap just to throw it away!

"They're planning on throwing this stuff away and it hasn't even come in yet," says Sanders.

According to the report, we're spending over $30 million a year, and employing over 1,400 people, just to warehouse all the defense equipment we don't need. For instance — we already have thousands of unneeded aircraft blades, but 7,460 on the way, at a cost of $2 million, which will join those already earmarked for the waste pile.


This is why you need to pay careful attention when you hear about John McCain claiming that he's going to "look at entitlement program" waste as a means of solving the budget crisis, or when you tune into the debate about the "death tax." We are in the midst of a political movement to concentrate private wealth into fewer and fewer hands while at the same time placing more and more of the burden for public expenditures on working people. If that sounds like half-baked Marxian analysis... well, shit, what can I say' That's what's happening. Repealing the estate tax (the proposal to phase it out by the year 2010 would save the Walton family alone $30 billion) and targeting "entitlement" programs for cuts while continually funneling an ever-expanding treasure trove of military appropriations down the befouled anus of pointless war profiteering, government waste and North Virginia McMansions — this is all part of a conversation we should be having about who gets what share of the national pie. But we're not going to have that conversation, because we're going to spend this fall mesmerized by the typical media-generated distractions, yammering about whether or not Michelle Obama's voice is too annoying, about flag lapel pins, about Jeremiah Wright and other such idiotic bullshit.

<<snip>>

Our economic reality is as brutal as it is for a simple reason: whether we like it or not, we are in the midst of revolutionary economic changes. In the kind of breathtakingly ironic development that only real life can imagine, the collapse of the Soviet Union has allowed global capitalism to get into the political unfreedom business, turning China and the various impoverished dictatorships and semi-dictatorships of the third world into the sweatshop of the earth. This development has cut the balls out of American civil society by forcing the export abroad of our manufacturing economy, leaving us with a service/managerial economy that simply cannot support the vast, healthy middle class our government used to work very hard to both foster and protect. The Democratic party that was once the impetus behind much of these changes, that argued so eloquently in the New Deal era that our society would be richer and more powerful overall if the spoils were split up enough to create a strong base of middle class consumers — that party panicked in the years since Nixon and elected to pay for its continued relevance with corporate money. As a result the entire debate between the two major political parties in our country has devolved into an argument over just how quickly to dismantle the few remaining benefits of American middle-class existence — immediately, if you ask the Republicans, and only slightly less than immediately, if you ask the Democrats.

The Republicans wanted to take Social Security, the signature policy underpinning of the middle class, and put it into private accounts — which is a fancy way of saying that they wanted to take a huge bundle of American taxpayer cash and invest it in the very companies, the IBMs and Boeings and GMs and so on, that are exporting our jobs abroad. They want the American middle class to finance its very own impoverishment! The Democrats say no, let's keep Social Security more or less as is, and let that impoverishment happen organically.

Now we have a new set of dire problems in the areas of home ownership and exploding energy prices. In both of these matters the basic dynamic is transnational companies raiding the cash savings of the middle class. Because those same companies finance the campaigns of our politicians, we won't hear much talk about getting private industry to help foot the bill to pay for these crises, or forcing the energy companies to cut into their obscene profits for the public good. We will, however, hear talk about taxpayer-subsidized bailouts and various irrelevancies like McCain's gas tax holiday (an amusing solution — eliminate taxes collected by government in order to pay for taxes collected by energy companies). Ultimately, however, you can bet that when the middle class finally falls all the way down, and this recession becomes something even worse, necessity will force our civil government — if anything remains of it by then — to press for the only real solution.

"Corporate America is going to have to reinvest in our society," says Sanders. "It's that simple."

These fantasy elections we've been having — overblown sports contests with great production values, decided by haircuts and sound bytes and high-tech mudslinging campaigns — those were sort of fun while they lasted, and were certainly useful in providing jerk-off pundit-dickheads like me with high-paying jobs. But we just can't afford them anymore. We have officially spent and mismanaged our way out of la-la land and back to the ugly place where politics really lives — a depressingly serious and desperate argument about how to keep large numbers of us from starving and freezing to death. Or losing our homes, or having our cars repossessed. For a long time America has been too embarrassed to talk about class; we all liked to imagine ourselves in the wealthy column, or at least potentially so, flush enough to afford this pissing away of our political power on meaningless game-show debates once every four years. The reality is much different, and this might be the year we're all forced to admit it.

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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended! n/t
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. We are building schools in Iraq and have decreased funding for school here at home.
We pay sky high gas bills, so that Dubai can build skyscrapers and playgrounds for the rich.

Its depressing.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
68. That Deserves Its Own Thread (nt)
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mina_seward Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
87. hmmm didn't Obama vote to fund
the building of these schools in Iraq? He voted with Bush on the war every time he had a chance (not) to.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. sad times...
Not being critical here, but is it OK to post so much from the article?

Being in Western Mass, so close to Vermont, the same issues are affecting working folk here. Largest Dairy farm presence in the state and local farmers are going under at rapid speed because of gas and other rising costs.

:(


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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Its a blog...
and I believe that makes it ok.
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. that first story
sounds like it came right out of an account from the Depression. :(

how many are watering down their milk right now?
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, and...
one sentence from story explains alot.

The Democratic party that was once the impetus behind much of these changes, that argued so eloquently in the New Deal era that our society would be richer and more powerful overall if the spoils were split up enough to create a strong base of middle class consumers — that party panicked in the years since Nixon and elected to pay for its continued relevance with corporate money.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. goddammit I'm 57 and am more worried than I've ever been
in my lifetime. wife and I have a house, we are trimming and saving as much as we possibly can, but , if either of us lose our jobs, (that pay the same as they did in the early 80s)we are fucked...... there is no one there to buy the pieces of what we've furnished our home with, no way of gettting another job that might pay enough to keep us afloat, I am so fuckkking angry at those that think this maladministration didn't know what it was doing after the 2000 selection. It's been the same old "crisis his and crisis that" meanwhile bearsterns gets money, fannie and freddiy get money, indyfuckingmac gets money. we get the shaft. God bless us all
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. I'm the same age and similar circumstance, and I am also
more worried (frightened?) about the future than I have ever been. I don't see any quick fixes either. Our "leadership" over the past 30 years has left this country completely unprepared for what's happening now. The middle class has been disappearing for many years now and this winter might just finish off the remainder.

I think most people in the 50's, 60's, and even the 70's, pretty much took it for granted that the future would always be better. I don't have that feeling at all anymore. I'm afraid it's going to get worse before it ever gets better. On top of all the other problems we have, this 4 and 5 dollar gas and oil is unprecedented and I really don't see how we can avoid a great deal of suffering because of that. If it goes higher, which it surely will, then we'll be entering Mad Max territory.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #27
46. "Mad Max territory", weird,
used that analogy earlier today to a friend.

I am 50 and most of my friends of all ages agree; we've never had to struggle this hard, even when just starting out, and it seems no end in sight.

I am very grateful it isn't worse, so far.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. K & R ....
:kick:
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
Bernie Sanders has always had my admiration and respect.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. We need a NEW New Deal.
And it isn't going to come from the Democratic Party, not with so many Blue Dogs and Harold Ford-DLCers in it. Maybe the first step is getting rid of those people.

I think ultimately we need a progressive people's party. We either need to reform the one we have (which claims to be progressive but most of its movers and shakers are decidedly not progressive) or start a new one.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. The Labor Movement pushed many of the ideas that became programs under the New Deal.
The 40 hour work week, the very novel idea of a minimum wage, the notion of overtime pay, and other ideas were forged by the Labor Movement in the 1920s and 1930s.

It must also be stated that FDR likely could not have won without the Great Depression arriving. If the Great Depression never happened, FDR would likely be little more than a footnote in history, a left wing "loony" who was "too far" left.
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. I like the ring of "The Next Deal"
waging war on poverty doesn't work too well (since there's traitors who undercut the programs at every step), but enhancing the New Deal policies for the next century will.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
106. Yes, "The Next Deal"...
I have been waiting for something like that for a long time. One of FDR's New Deal programs that didn't become law was The Dept. of Social Welfare, I think its time for a new cabinet position similar to Homeland Security to oversee all the DOMESTIC problems we have such as poverty, homelessness, healthcare, etc. I have posted this before and a few other DUers agree, and we came up with names like Dept. of Social Justice and Dept. of Humanitarian Services. I think it would be a perfect position for John Edwards, what do you think?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
69. The industrialized countries where the "system" works are all nations that
Are not dependent on two parties.

And let's face it - for the most part, our Dems are not any different than the Repugs - the only way someone can say that is if they had their head up the proverbial last week when the FISA vote was taken.

Both sides are bought out and paid for by Big Oil, Big Banking, Big Pharma, Big Agro, etc.

And the media is nothing more than the ministry of propaganda
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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. "...we are in the midst of revolutionary economic changes." We are in the midst of a revolution.
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 06:33 PM by 1Hippiechick
Period.

Great post.

Edited to add: K & R

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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. Until we have new Haymarket riots...
to prove a point to these CEOs, nothing is going to change.

The people of America are going to have to get as pissed as the 19th century immigrants were to change anything. When the people are starving, methinks some bureacratic folks with big salaries are going to get grabbed out of their fancy offices and pilloried. Or worse.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. This country sucks for the working class. The corporate barons are having a ball, though.
They go home with gigantic bonuses and dividends, while the peasants on the plantation starve.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. The "American Dream"
has been trampled into the dirt, all to make room for American Feudalism. A few lords, millions of serfs. And we stood by and watched it happen.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. Enthusiastic k&r -- a very compelling piece of writing. Taibbi nails it. (nt)
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sounds like more whining from people in a "mental recession".
:sarcasm:

Phuck fil gramm.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. LOL!
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R n/t
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. Middle amerika has its collective head stuck in
the sand of apathy. Until it hits "THEM" most dont give a damn.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
72. I think middle America is awakening and they will vote heavily Democratic.
However, I have read two blogs this morning that make me very worried that we are not going to get what we think we are voting for. Many workers do not have the time to set on the web all day and night educating themselves - they are too busy trying to make a living. This is very frightening.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe I don't have the proper appreciation for the gravity of the situation....
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 08:22 PM by BlooInBloo
Can someone please tell me what percentage of the American population is in such dire straits that they need to burn their mother's dining room furniture for energy?


EDIT: typo.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. How high would it have to be
to get your proper appreciation?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. ??? I just asked a simple factual question.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I may reach
that status this winter! ALthough I have a nice collection of scrap wood that I can burn first! ( never know when a piece of plank is going to come in handy!)
I have a friend who went all winter heating her water on the stove for dishes & baths, couldn't afford to replace the dead hot water heater.!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. OMG - we had a water heater go out on us last year - the damn thing....
cost 1000s to replace. GRRRR.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. That must be one helluva fancy water heater.
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 09:25 PM by TahitiNut
A typical 40 gal water heater costs under $500 ... for a name brand without discounts.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. We had some kind of outdated electrical hookup that was said to be unsafe....
so we had to fix it before they were allowed to put in the new one.
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. ...yet you were able to replace it.
Some are not able to fund such a replacement, which is the general tone of the original article. In case you didn't notice.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
104. Apparently that part flew right past some self-absorbed heads
:shrug:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
73. See post #71
Let your neighbors know that you are collecting newspaper and boxes. Make tight rolls out of the newspapers and bind the cardboard up in tight bunches as well, tying both up with string. If there's not a lot of room for oxygen in the paper packages you create they'll burn more slowly. Also; I've paid my tree service guy a small delivery fee for firewood from the old oaks he takes down in my area. Instead of grinding them up as they usually do, for $40 or so he'll cut it into manageable logs and deliver it to my home. It's still green and it still needs to be split in some cases, but If I have it delivered well before winter it's ready before the first cold snap. A HUGE amount of wood goes to waste from leftover trimmings from urban forests. Call your local tree service and ask what they charge to deliver what's left of some of their jobs. If the job is close to your home it may be very affordable.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. I have no idea, but I do know that a lot of people in my community
are in close to dire straits due to the coming winter.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. Some people...
will burn furniture, some will lose their homes and some will just freeze, but the total is way too large.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
55. If I had a fireplace last year I would have
Instead I had to turn on space heaters to keep the pipes from freezing and I am still paying that off.

This year I will be getting a second job for the winter just to pay for heat.

This year heat will be costing around 1000 dollars per month. Gas heat is not available on my street.

I am working to find a good solution to being down costs before then.

Here in the north east it is that bad. The elderly on fixed incomes will suffer the most.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Pellet stove?
A friend of mine was paying $500 a month last year for heat (old draughty house), and when she got her pellet stove, it cost her $500 for the rest of the winter for the pellets. Some stoves burn corn, pellets, and wood, and you can vent them right through the wall. It saved her a lot of money, and helped her get through the winter.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. The problem is coming up with the money for the pellet stove and installation.
With gas and food prices continuing to rise I have nothing left to save. Many working class are in my same position. As a single mother there isn't much left after the necessary bills are paid.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Yeah, one of our mutual friends helped her install it.
She scraped together the money for the stove itself, so our friend helped her put it in and paid for the materials and all for it.

Our savings are crap, too. I keep thinking that there has to be a better way if we just all pulled together somehow.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. I agree with you
In my opinion we have become too large, too separated from others. Lack of community causes most of our problems. I think before too long our country will split into more manageable, smaller countries and communities.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. I hope so.
I want to have a tomato canning day at church for us to all bring stuff so we can give it to the poorer families in our parish, but I can't seem to make it happen. Maybe if I start with just a few . . .

We're all too damn isolated. Single moms have it the hardest, I think, and they're the ones who need the most support. Even in our little cul-de-sac, I don't know most of our neighbors and am just starting to know some of them after living here for three years. That's insane. How can we all survive separately anymore?
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. Start with just a few. You could spark an interest
Who knows, next year maybe your church will even have a garden to grow those tomatoes and other things.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
71. That seemed a little extreme to me too-and toxic
because of the varnish and solvents in the wood. Vermont is a heavily wooded state; you don't have to wield and ax to gather plenty of firewood. My grandparents used to heat their home with a wood stove. They always lived as if it were STILL the depression, so instead of buying firewood they would get newspapers and boxes from their neighbors, bind them up tightly with string and use them as fuel all winter. They also found plenty of kindling from the fallen deadwood they scavenged on their daily walks through the cemetery across the street. I'm not saying that I think that the woman is lying-but thinking ahead and being a little more resourceful would have spared her the loss of her furniture and the toxic fumes that came with burning it.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #71
85. Ink fumes...
I assume the newsprint you speak of was soy ink? If not, same as the funiture. Fumes. Also, many people could not roll and bind- not everyone is in perfect health, you see- and many don't have the time away from work and kids to scavenge for fuel...not to mention the fact that you Grand's method only works when the neighbors don't need the newsprint and boxes themselves. A truck full of newsprint is several hundred bucks, and it is being stolen from recycling centers already, for profit.
So you Grandfolks fumes were toxic as well, they were lucky to have working hands and neighbors who could give it away. They are past tense I see, so the now is not the then.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. What fumes? It's a wood stove. n/t
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
79. For alot, it is hopefully not that bad
But more and more people are not going to the doctor when they need to

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/june/_insured_experience_.php

People are driving less (which is both good and bad, but bad because we can't afford it)

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/02/24/gas_costs_forcing_drivers_to_cut_back/

The savings rate is 0%.

etc.

That story up there was from a single mother who probably worked a $7/hr job to support herself and her kids. That is hard to do, but even families with 50-60k incomes are having more and more troubles.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
105. BlooinBloo, was the verbal eyeroll necessary?
Or do you not believe dire poverty exists in the US, too?

Enough of this "we are privileged, even the poorest of us"
language. Reminds me of when I was in college -- on scholarship --
reading about how "privileged we all were" to afford to go there.

Not everyone is as affluent as the visible urbanites you talk
to at work and at filling stations and expensive chain joints

(home of the 80% of American shoppers who refuse to frequent
non-themed outdoor retail destinations, for fear of running into
the other 20% of desperately poor people that supposedly doesn't
really exist, and merely has bad habits, like eating too much
junk food and not studying with their kids... retail studies
prove it... Americans just want to avoid the poor entirely...
by avoiding non-themed retail destinations and non-segregated
housing, even downtown... they are the new "untouchables.")
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. "Free Markets" -
Free of regulation.
Free of oversight.
Free of restriction.
Free of taxation.
Free of responsibility.
Free of ethics.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Very good. We should demand responsible markets.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. This all sounds like the Irish Famine
when the British were lording around estates in Ireland and starving people by exporting all their resources.
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givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. Did NOT the McCain campaign just call Bernie Sanders a "socialist"?
Hi.
My name is "givemebackmycountry"
I want my freaking country back.
Not that I ever had one.
Even though I was born in 1955, the only times I every felt like I HAD a country was when I was 8 (1963) and when I was 13 (1968).
JFK/MLK/RFK

Not only do I want my country back...I want my m'effing money back too.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Bernie Sanders used to be a Socialist, at least
I think we need a hell of a lot more Socialists in this country.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. Still is. The fact that there are no socialist parties around--
--actually interested in daily governance and the mechanics of getting people elected means that he has no party to affiliate with.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #50
74. If this economy continues and Obama cannot change the direction
we will have a viable third party - Socialist. FDR kept this nation from becoming Communist in the 1930s and that is the position I see Obama in today.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #74
97. Either Obama will step up to the plate or he won't
I see more of a civil war than socialism if he doesn't
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #50
100. True. Damn shame that. N/T
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
37. This is why I want to see the people of this country rise up and start
burning shit to the ground. I want to see a fucking guillotine set up on the front steps of the Capitol building.
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
38. K&R
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
39. Finally. A reason for me to actually like Matt Taibbi.
When he takes a break from playing the smart-assed kid in the back of the classroom, he can produce beautiful, pungent, fact-laden poetry like this that really brings it home for Americans.

Heartily K/R'd.

Duke
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
40. We need 99 more Senators like Bernie Sanders
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 11:14 PM by ekwhite
Things are dire out there. When we have people working 2 or 3 jobs that have to burn the furniture to heat the house, things are bad. If we don't turn things around soon, things will get even worse. The fall election is just the beginning. We have to take back the White House - then we need to hold the Democrat's feet to the fire.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
42. Lesson to be learned: Neither a borrower nor a lender be
I learned this bit of wisdom from "Gilligans Island" and their version of Hamlet.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #42
52. Do not forget
Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 04:44 AM by eShirl
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #42
59. That, and don't let the rich control absolutely everything.
Some people have been putting groceries and heat on their credit cards, having no other option than to go hungry or have their pipes freeze. What's happening is the perfect example of why we need regulated markets and why we need another New Deal.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
43. we cannot afford air conditioning
it is 86F in here. We have to rely on breeze or limited use of a fan. The electricity has doubled in price over the last year. Running a cold shower to cool down also costs money. I can understand what people are going through.
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. electricity is roughly the same here
I am wondering if you have public utilities or if some Enron Jr. is raping your community?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #43
58. If you don't get the humidity out of your furniture and walls it may cost you more in the longrun?
Once mold becomes established it is nearly impossible to remove without having to damn near dismantle the entire house. And insurance doesn't cover it any more.

May want to reconsider this decision? Central air can remove gallons of water per day from inside the house.

Don
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
83. Had To Comment On Your Statement... I Live In Florida AND We've Finally
begun to get some MUCH NEEDED rain again, BUT "humidity" almost takes your breath away when you go outside!!! I had planned on NOT RUNNING my air conditioner this year but found it much too problematic for many reasons. Humidity DOES ruin so many things, not to mention all other "creatures" who invade your home. My neighbor's and I have seen an influx of black widows and brown recluse spiders, to say nothing of all the CRICKETS that drive you crazy!

Where I once set my air at 78, it is now set at 80. I was gone for 2 weeks last month to get my mother-in-law settled into a Hospice House and STILL my electric bill was $161.00, with the air set at 84! Back home now I fear what this month's bill will be!!! I'm thinking at least $300.00 and my home is no larger than 1450 sq. ft with LOW ceilings!

I have called for a middle class REVOLUTION for well over a year, but knew in my heart that NOTHING would be done until it really began hitting people where it hurts. And now the problem is so out of control that I fear we may see another DEPRESSION! Oh, what will Walmart do???

I see more and more people using their credit cards to pay bills than ever before and it won't be long before it's going to ruin them! I have ONE card and use it sparingly so I consider myself LUCKY! I also see more garage sales than I've EVER seen before! I once LOVED going to garage sales but no longer do. I'm sure people are selling anything and everything just to survive and those with extra cash can make a killing!! So much "stuff" people once thought they just HAD TO HAVE is now being sold for a pittance of what was paid. I don't have that extra cash so I don't go to the sales anymore.

I live in one of the richest counties per capita in the state of Florida and our economy is in dire straits. Unfortunately, I was NEVER one of those RICH people. Each day it seems it gets worse and it's harder and harder to make ends meet.

I think too many Americans still believe we're the GREATEST Nation in the world and still remain much too APATHETIC! I once thought I could make a difference, I no longer feel that way. My burning candle of political activism has all but burned out! As a "Boomer" who once believed we could make a change, I now find myself defeated and depressed because it IS going to take a REVOLUTION before "we the people" are recognized once again.

JMHO!

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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #83
94. portable AC
we were looking at a portable AC that was on sale. I wonder if they use less electricity than window units?
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. I Don't Think A Portable Would Be As Effective As Central Down Here, But
I don't know if it uses less electricity or not. There must be some stats somewhere. Don't know where you live so it may depend upon the area. I rarely see any "window" air conditioners around here either. However I do have a window air conditioner that was given to me that is still in the box, perhaps I should try to sell it. You made me remember I still have it.

Regardless, nothing is cheap anymore!

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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #83
102. Hey .*whistle*.....take a look at what China just built
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/07/beijing_2008_preparations_thre.html

How long has it been since Amurika has had such revolutionary architecture/infrastructure like this built? The 1920's?

I'm agreeing with you, unfortunately. We're NOT the 'greatest nation in the world' .... not by a long shot. I WISH we are/were....but there's nothing to be proud of right now.

Truthfully,
M_Y_H
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
93. that's an interesting thing to consider
but maybe we'll try portables one day
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conflictgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
44. I know people who recently had to move into a shelter
The husband lost his job and our local economy is really bad, so he's had trouble finding another job. The family ended up having to leave their house, give up their pets and are now living in a shelter with their toddler.

Granted, it's Michigan, so these types of situations are unfortunately nothing new here. But growing up here, watching all the GM plant closures, I've known our economic state would eventually spread to the rest of the country at some point. It's just sad to watch it starting to happen.
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
47. I love Bernie's sentiment, but his math is funny
<<You want an example' Sanders has a great one for you. The Senator claims that he has been trying for years to increase funding for the Federally Qualified Health Care (FQHC) program, which finances community health centers across the country that give primary health care access to about 16 million Americans a year. He's seeking an additional $798 million for the program this year, which would bring the total appropriation to $2.9 billion, or about what we spend every two days in Iraq.

"But for five billion a year," Sanders insists, "we could provide basic primary health care for every American. That's how much it would cost, five billion."

As it is, though, Sanders has struggled to get any additional funding. He managed to get $250 million added to the program in last year's Labor, Health and Human Services bill, but Bush vetoed the legislation, "and we ended up getting a lot less.">>

OK, perhaps I'm missing or misunderstanding something here. OOH, Senator Sanders is saying he can provide PHC for 16M people at $2.9 Billion. That comes to about $181 per person, which sounds low, but I'll roll with it. OK so flash forward to "For $5B we can provide PHC to EVERY AMERICAN"

???

That's about $16 bucks an American (there were 300M of us, last I'd heard). I buy more than that a year in Band-Aids and Solarcaine.

$500B, maybe ...$5B??? It doesn't wash.
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. It's not the math, it's the selective quotation
that is at fault.

Here is what the actual quote is from Bernie's Senate website:

Today, another 800 community health centers already have been approved but have not been funded because of inadequate resources. The simple and very important truth is that, if we fund these 800 already-approved centers and an additional 2,900 centers over the next five years, we could provide primary health care to every American in need of it. In other words, for a total of $8.3 billion a year, we could have 4,800 centers caring for 56 million people in every medically-underserved region of the country.
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
89. That makes more sense. Thanks!
56M people @ about $150 bucks a person. If we're just talking primary care (checkups, exams for cold/flu/etc., exams -but not treatment- for major illness, minor emergency care, and innoculations) that sounds in the right ballpark.
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Iwillnevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
48. As Amy and Seth would say, "Seriously."
Saturday Night Live aside, I'm wondering how this lousy, unstable economy is going to affect Social Security. Several people I know who are at least 62 and eligible to start collecting it are working instead and holding off as long as they can. One of my best friends figures she'll be working until she's at least 70 full time, and then part time after that indefinitely. President Gore's lockbox may get hugely stuffed with postponed benefits. Seriously.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
49. I love listening to Bernie ...
Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 02:47 AM by LaStrega
On Fridays. I agree with him, and appreciate his show via Thom on Air America. But recently I've had to switch to the uncensored comedy (via satellite radio, which was free with my new car, now it is not) ... just 'cause I'd rather laugh and essentially stick my head in the sand ... then cry.

I met (physically) one guy via DU ... he was (is) genius ... but evidently not for me. Whatever. I need a handyman. I live in a circa 1925 house and she needs work.

If any out there are suffering and looking at being homeless, I live approximately 40-minutes south of the Cities.

We can barter. Or something. Gah. This was not a fun response to post.

Yay me.

Not.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
53. Here's a link to Bernie's site and all the letters. It's worth the read.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #53
98. Very much worth it, thanks for the link n/t
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rg302200 Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
54. the greatest country on earth
and we still have poverty problems like this...

K&R
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
56. It's happening in Michigan, too, and has been for years.
I'm seeing more haunted looks everywhere I go as things get worse and worse. Our priest knows of a couple of families in our church who are having trouble buying food, and our sisterhood group is getting them Meijers gift cards (so they can get gas there, too) to help out.

My mom and I were planning on driving to the nearest outlet mall for kids' school clothes, but with gas costing so much, I'm not sure of the savings. I just had to spend a fortune on the car, and we have more and more expenses piling up. I want to sock more into savings, but Hubby wants to pay down the credit cards (which really needs to be done). If it's bad for us, it's got to be downright untenable for most everyone.
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ravencalling Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
63. Middle Class
Friends, family, everyone I meet just about, has a story of the hardship they are now in. Lost jobs is probably the number one story I hear and then along with the story - "what are they going to do now?"

The word I am looking for here is that it is palpable. And yes these should be the stories we see on a daily basis.

It also points out a fact that for the majority of people who are in real trouble - voting, being involved in politics, etc is probably becoming a low priority. When you are hungry and wonder where your next meal is going to come from or how you are going to feed your family, you need answers now, not some promise in the future.









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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
66. I'm tired of play Cassandra
I've been banging the pots and pans about this for YEARS! If you wind up at the bottom, you become invisible, no matter how hard you work and no matter how you helped in your community.

Screw the middle class. They got complacent and the upper classes decided they were unhappy with sharing their vacation spots and golf courses with them.

They forgot what got them to be middle class- it sure wasn't the politicians and the megacorps.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
67. I simply cannot fathom how he can still be against impeachment.
If these people were thrown even that meager bone, is would go a long way toward turning their spirits around and ready them for the long fight ahead.



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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
70. wow. Almost didn't read this cuz of title. But Sanders' points hit home - get it to KO!
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. Just curious...
Why did title turn you off?
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. too emotionally laden.
although i'm extremely sensitive and sympathetic to the plight of our folks, i believe that the title suggested an attempt to play on emotions - a strategy that is not going to be effective. while it may stimulate the empathy of progressive thinkers, it absolutely attracts a "blame the victim" strategy that is too successful in today's "me, me, me" societal ethos.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. By no means...
did I intend to "blame the victim", I'm sorry you took it that way. What I wanted was to start a discussion like we have going on here, a place to allow people to tell their stories and help each other out with some ideas. There are too many of us suffering quietly and I think what Bernie Sanders has done in asking for these stories should be done all over the country, maybe then our leaders will actually see the plight of their constituents and attempt to do something.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #84
99. you didn't ! i just saw the title and expected a "sob story"..pleasantly surprised once i read it
sorry if i sounded so harsh. i didn't think U were blaming victim. i just expect too many people to do so, these days, so i'm turned off by stories that pull the heart strings. it usually backfires when stupid people argue that misfortune befalls those who invite it.

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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #99
101. You were not harsh...
I so agree about people who claim that you get what you deserve or if you "fix" yourself your troubles will end. With the shape our country is in I can't understand that type of logic.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
75. K&R nt
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
77. k&R
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
78. great post
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
81. THIS is what we are dealing with. Read this email and weep.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7929620

Basically, I got mine, fuck all of the rest of you. :puke:
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #81
90. the attitude that lead to the French Revolution...
I won't say it couldn't happen here...(have pitchfork)
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
82. Excellent post....dissheartening and very sad that we have come
Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 12:41 PM by ooglymoogly
to this low place.
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
86. A BIG K&R! n/t
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debunkthelies Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
88. K&R
How much more are we willing to give up for the profits of the ruling vampires, personally I'm not willing to give;
one more life
one more penny
one more day of war
one more day of servitude
No more, it's time for a General Strike, it's time to take it back. :grr: :nuke: :kick:
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
91. Dear Bernie,
Corporations cause of poverty. It's that simple.

Best regards,
Everybody
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. I suspect - no, I know, that bernie knows more about this than you ever will
and hardly needs your advice.
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cabbage08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
103. Kick
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