Father kills daughter; doubted virginity

[helderheid]

By SHAFIKA MATTAR, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 49 minutes ago

AMMAN, Jordan - A Jordanian man fatally shot his 17-year-old daughter whom he suspected of having sex despite a medical exam that proved her chastity, an official said Thursday. The man surrendered to police hours after the killing, saying he had done it for family honor.

A state forensic pathologist, who works at the National Institute of Forensic Medicine in Amman where an autopsy was performed, said in a phone interview that the girl had run away from home several times for unknown reasons.

Weeks ago, the girl had returned home from a family protection clinic after doctors had vouched for her virginity and the father had signed a pledge not to harm her, the pathologist said on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the case.

"The tests proved that she was a virgin," the pathologist said. The girl returned home only after her father signed a statement promising not to harm her, he added.

The father shot the girl four times in the head on Tuesday. On Wednesday, an autopsy was performed that again showed "she was still a virgin," the pathologist said.


MORE >>>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070125/ap_on_re_mi_ea/jordan_honor_killing

[trumad]

1. I'm guessing they missed the Father/Daughter Virginity Ball?

[ProfessorGAC]

24. Well, He Couldn't Be Seen In Public With Her!

Think of the family honor, Trumad. :sarcasm:
The Professor

[xultar]

2. I just knew that was a story based in the US.

[mmonk]

3. madness.

A truly dark side of a particular society's mores and religious obsession about sexuality and gender roles.

[SoCalDem]

12. A non-virginal daughter is not "worth as much" on the marriage "market".

Females in those societies are little more than a commodity.

[Deep13]

56. How much is a dead one worth?

Even with that prejudice, this whole honor killing shit doesn't make any sense.

[SoCalDem]

88. Oddly, it BOOSTS the family's standing

because it shows how strictly "religious" the guy is, and that the virginity of his OTHER daughters can be trusted :eyes:

[iconoclastic cat]

4. What a lunatic. nt

[LostinVA]

5. Ugh

When will women and girls be able to live without fear of this type of violence against them?

[ProfessorGAC]

25. Probably Never!

Alas, we will likely always have people this locked into a narrow world view.
The Professor

[LostinVA]

32. I know, I know

*sigh*

[etherealtruth]

103. I am an eternal optimist

I believe the answer to your question is: Eventually, if we all work for human rights protections and education of all people ... unfortunately I see generations of struggle :(

[Der Blaue Engel]

6. And some people wondered why that "pledge your virginity" ceremony creeped some of us out

:cry:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. when one of the fathers from that ceremony kills his daughter

then you can try to equate the two...

sP

[treestar]

14. It's not equated, but there is a parallel

The ball is not nearly this extreme, but it is based on the same feelings, fortunately, those feelings are considerably watered down compared to this.

[helderheid]

15. I agree with you here.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

20. semantics

it is not based on the same feelings...loving your daughter and wanting to protect her are not equal/parellel to being a homicidal maniac bent on destroying anything not acceptable to your world.

sP

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. It's not loving and protecting her -

it's loving yourself and possessing her.

There's a difference.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

31. have you ever been to one?

I have not so I cannot speak with authority about what goes on there...but it seems there is a large percentage of people on this board who insist that it must be evil in some size shape or form. However, Christian doctrine teaches (in some sects) that the father is the head of the home and family and thus its protector. From what I read...this is an outcome of that doctrine.

sP

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. No, I haven't, but I do have two daughters.

And i never thought they were my property. They're grown now, thank god, but know what? They did not get pregnant in HS. Or for several years after.

They were given the information they needed and taught about making good choices. None of this "you belong to me until I hand you over to a suitable husband".

I think these 'virginigy balls' come from the same twisted mindset that produced this killer - they devalue girls as persons, making them commodities instead. it's the same mindset that produces the more American phenomena of 'kill the kids to save them from the devil'. There is latent insanity in it.

[LostinVA]

106. But that is not a liberal doctrine n/a

[Bunny]

30. No it's not. It's an unnatural and freakish obsession with their

daughter's virginity, so that it can be preserved and handed over to another man. That's fucking sick, and you can try to justify this all you want but the fact is it's perverted. Take that "protector" crap and shove it, I'm sick of hearing about it. You know as well as I do what these freaks are doing, with their "purity balls" wherein 4 YEAR OLDS PLEDGE THEIR VIRGINITY TO THEIR FATHERS!!!! Fucking sick dude, just sick.

No, they aren't killing their daughters (yet) but there damn sure is something effed up going on there, and if you don't see this as just another spot on the "ownership" continuum, then there is no need to bother replying.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. i agree with the statement on four year olds

but I am charged with protecting my children from the evils of the world...so don't tell me to shove it. I do not own them, but it is my job to educate them and I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men. You may not have to like it, but I am free to believe it and teach it to my children. And frankly, unless these men are committing a crime, it is none of your business. No more than it is THEIR business if you decide to live your life a certain way.

sP

[helderheid]

34. So is losing one's virginity evil?

[Mandate My Ass]

35. apparently so

The only good sex is male-sanctioned, possessive sex. :eyes:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

38. so, you have a problem with the religion...

fine...just say so. come on out and slam it like you really want to...

sP

[Mandate My Ass]

40. No, I have a problem with male control-freaks

that is all.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

43. so, if i teach my children my beliefs i am controlling them?

and that is my motivation? interesting thought process you have there...

sP

[Mandate My Ass]

46. I wasn't speaking about you

You couldn't possibly warrant my attention. You really have a victim complex.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

52. you butted into my subthread with someone else

so obiviously i warranted your attention...and you commented about my belief that sex outside of marriage is sin...so, i'll leave you to decide what warrants what in your own mind...

sP

[Mandate My Ass]

58. oh so this is YOUR thread?

and you're obviously very "protective" of it. Only you should decide who posts in it. Get a grip.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

61. nope...just pointing out that you can't seem to keep straight

what actually warrants your attention...

sP

[LostinVA]

107. Exactly -- saying this is a slam against religion is a strawman

Except for one person, everyone I love is a Christian. And, most of my close friends are very religious. NONE of them would condone that freaky virginity ball thing.

[WinkyDink]

127. It is an unfortunate element of some male- dominated cultures.

And if that shoe fits a particular religion or three, so be it.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. Christian teaching holds sex outside of marriage as sin

and as a Christian, I hold that as well.

sP

[helderheid]

39. Riiiight. So why aren't their purity balls with sons?

or "honor killings" for sons who have sex outside marriage?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. which of these people has killed their child by this?

Like I said, I find this a little odd as well...sons should be just as accountable as daughters. And honor killings in THIS society are punished as murder...not with 6 mos in jail. And to be honest, people who kill are insane to begin with and if religion is brought into the killing, it is just an excuse. Where can you find the last christian (in a modern society) who has killed their children for losing their virginity before marriage?

sP

[helderheid]

54. I am not saying that honor killings happen in our society. What I am saying is that this obsession

with virginity is one sided. The purity balls are to "protect" a daughter's virginity, NEVER a son's.

Honor killings over virginity are ALWAYS with girls, NEVER with boys.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

64. i agree with you on the onesided nature

if I had sons they would fall under the same protection as my daughters...

sP

[helderheid]

65. I'm sure of that about you - I just hope you can see the parallel with gender.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

66. I can dig that... n/t

[helderheid]

69. Cool.

:hi:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

70. yeah...it is

:toast:

[helderheid]

134. Indeed.

:toast:

[Warren DeMontague]

71. Any statistics on how many people actually remain virgins until marriage?

How about the statistics on how many of these kids who have their heads filled with this "abstinence only" gibberish that end up getting pregnant, or STDs, when they almost inevitably do what pretty much everyone does, i.e. have sex before marriage?

I think it's been documented that when these bogus abstinence pledges fail- and they're extremely statistically likely to fail- they tend to do so in a very messy way.

I also think that if we're going to be pissing away millions of taxpayer dollars on thinly-veiled Jesus-based proseltyzing in this regard, we should have the right to demand that everyone- everyone in the Bush administration, but particularly everyone who is in any way affiliated with the programs- put their money where their mouths are and not be engaged in or have ever engaged in extra-marital sex.

Oh, but you can't do that- because when you scratch the surface of most of the adults preaching this stuff at kids, 10 to 1 they all screwed around before they got married. So heap a nice dollop of "do as I say, not as I do" hypocrisy on to the top of the pile.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

80. somewhere in what I think was another thread...

I go into the last paragraph of your missive...but you are right...abstinence only in NOT the way to go. Education that has abstinence as a viable option is not so bad either though. Thing is, teach your kids what you would have them learn...love your kids no matter what they do.

sP

[Warren DeMontague]

86. I would tend to agree. I still find the purity balls creepy, but parents do have the right

to teach their kids as they see fit. I don't personally think it's a terribly realistic, or even a good, message to give them ---"marry the first person you have sex with, and vice-versa"--- but that's their prerogative.

[LeftyMom]

133. Good for you. But none of the rest of us will be held to your outdated morals.

You can hold to the idea that sex outside of marriage is some moral evil all you want. Personally, I think water chestnuts are disgusting, vile and generally a great culinary evil, but I don't tell the rest of the world not to eat them, because that's my hangup. Apparently premarital sex is yours. Don't expect anybody else to care.

[Bunny]

36. Sure, raise your kids however you want. Your definition of protection

involves telling them they should avoid premarital sex- I am FINE with that. But you continually try to equate the "purity ball" fathers as just being protective as well, and clearly they are not. Any rational person can see that. Refusal to acknowledge that these men are freakish perverts is akin to condoning this behavior, and I WILL tell you to shove that.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. but do you KNOW what is going on there?

I can see it as a little creepy, but do you know their hearts and motivation behind the activity? How is it that YOU can speak to it and I cannot? Interesting that my point of view has to be 'shoved'...and yet yours, which assumes the worst of these people without knowing them, is perfectly ok.

sP

[Mandate My Ass]

44. Nothing is "assumed" about making daughters sign pledges

It's a glaring, sexist, misogynist double standard on open display.

[helderheid]

47. absolutely.

[LostinVA]

108. Exactly

[Bunny]

59. Their motivation and behavior leaves very little to "assume". It's right out there for

all to see, and it just ain't flattering, dude. FWIW, I think it's interesting that you're excusing them and assuming the best of them without knowing them, yet you critique me for doing the same. And you've been doing it a lot, in this thread as well as the earlier one. That's real telling.

To answer your question, I can speak to this because I am an actual woman, and no one protected/owned my hymen but me. I have two daughters, and they are the sole owners/protectors of their hymens. Not my dad, not their dad, not any man. Why is that so hard for you to address? And are you the protector of your sons? You never mention that.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

63. i agree...i do tend to assume that people generally have

good motivations. I assume that about most people here until they show otherwise.

And, I don't have sons, but if I did I would indeed be their protector as well. I only speak to protecting my daughters because I only have daughters. I know good and well that I don't own them. I also know that it is MY job to educate and protect them. Part of that is to teach them what our religion holds to be true (else we wouldn't practice it). I know full well, that as they age they will ask questions of why are we 'this' and why do we believe 'that'. And at some point, they may even tell me that they don't believe 'this' or 'that'. At that point, I will love them as much as I do right now and consider the efforts that we made well spent. If they bring the live-in boyfriend (or girlfried) home to Thanksgiving dinner...all will be welcome in my home.

sP

[Bunny]

67. I am not trying to bust your balls for raising your daughters in your

Christian faith. That is fine with me. I am busting your chops because you seem to want to excuse, overlook, and almost condone men who take their daughters, some as young as four years old, to "purity balls" wherein these girls pledge their virginity to their fathers. That's not "protection", in any universe. That is perversion, and this is what the problem is, not how you and your wife are raising your own kids.

[Mandate My Ass]

He won't believe you

He thinks we're all out to bash his religion. He accused me of it several times already. :yawn:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

74. nope...just you...

thanks for dropping by again...

sP

[Mandate My Ass]

76. God bless

I can see how devout you truly are. :puke:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

78. so my sarcasm and lack of interest in your comment

is now a statement to my Christian walk...interesting...

sP

[Mandate My Ass]

81. God bless you

Christlike, you ain't. But even Christ admitted his weaknesses. Insulting people who held different opinions than his just wasn't one of them.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

83. who is insulting?

and I am not the least bit concerned what you think of my faith or expression thereof. Thanks for the comment...

sP

[ProdigalJunkMail]

77. well, at least you're not busting my balls

and it is only my chops :-)

All I am saying is that unless you are one of these people you cannot know their motivation. Their expression may be a little screwy but they could honestly believe they are doing the right thing. I am quite certain that the four year olds don't know or care what is going on and likely won't remember. Not sure what happens to the 12-13 set though. I feel safe in deriding the methods...but not the motivations...that's the only reason I am defending any of this.

Thanks for the input...
sP

[Midlodemocrat]

126. .

:applause: Perversion is way too kind of a word for it.

[Tesha]

79. I knew we'd get there eventually...

> and I believe that sex before marriage is wrong.

I knew we'd get there eventually.

Do you have any especially good reasons why a,
say, 25-year-old who knows how to use contracep-
tion and condoms should remain a virgin or is it
all just down to your religious beliefs that he/
she must continue to conform to?

Tesha

[ProdigalJunkMail]

82. well, I never hid anything so I don't know why we FINALLY get to it

it IS a religious belief of mine that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Both the old and new testaments of the bible speak to it, so I will probably continue to believe it. But I also believe that every person is their own. If my daughters should chose not to believe that or if they should have sex despite that belief then so-be-it. I will continue to love them. There is no 'must'.

sP

[alarimer]

97. I would be willing to bet that almost no one who claimed to

be a virgin until marriage actually IS. They may tell daddy or mommy that they are but my guess is that they are lying. All those virginity pledges come to naught with the right (or wrong?) person.

I think getting married just to have sex is a spectacularly bad idea. I would still be waiting at age 38, not that I ever believed I need to wait until I was married. And all those people who cannot get married, are they supposed to remain celibate forever too?

Sex is supposed to be a natural part of life. To treat it as something sacred is ridiculous, in my opinion. Everyone has needs, whether they acknowledge them or not. And there is nothing wrong with getting those needs met, as long as you have the tools and information to protect yourself, whether you are married, single, gay or straight.

[Occulus]

85. I CAN'T get married. EVER.

So fuck your "I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men" bullshit.

I see now JUST where you stand, and it's NOT on my side.

ed.: When you say "I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men", what that means for some people is, "I believe you having sex is wrong, period."

But I'm betting you knew that.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

90. for women and men of the christian faith it IS wrong

I don't care what you do. I hope you have a full and happy life. I hope for you that your sex is amazing and deep and with a partner that you really love. I hope the same for my daughters, in or out of a marriage. I will love them no matter what they do (and I will love their partner(s). Why are you so angry...I am not trying to foist anything on you. This is for me and my family and perhaps some other people who believe the same way.

sP

[Occulus]

92. Why am I so angry?

Because it's your religion's fault.

And- here you are saying (AND AFFIRMING) that "I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men". That's a direct attack on me.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

93. ok...I can see that

people who profess a judeo-christian faith base have been pretty crappy down through the centuries. But I am not trying to stop you from doing anything so saying "fuck your beliefs" is a little harsh. My beliefs don't affect you one way or another except for the fact that I am trying to explain them a little bit here.

sP

[Occulus]

94. Your beliefs are directly responsible for suicides

Which I considered- BECAUSE OF your beliefs, and the beliefs of others who preah your pap. Your beliefs do affect me, and my life, because there are people in power, making laws, who share those beliefs. That, and you can't divorce how you feel about sex outside marriage from what that means to me and people like me.

A little harsh? No, honey, getting kicked out into the rain with nothing but two changes of clothes, a bike, and a musical instrument as dear and precious to you as life itself is a little harsh. Getting the boot out of school the following year by those same people- one's own family- is a little harsh. Having someone whose fellow religious practitioners forced in a constitutional amendment banning you from getting married in your state telling you "I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men". THAT'S a little harsh.

ed.: Until recently, it WAS illegal for me to have sex in certain places- BECAUSE OF your beliefs.

In light of those things, a simple "fuck you and yours" is not only not harsh, but polite.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

95. you know what...you are wrong

my beliefs do not affect you in the least. People with control issues who profess to believe as I do affect you...not me nor what I believe. My beliefs would stand up for your rights...but you don't want to see that. You just want to lump me in with all the other people who claim to believe as I do. I am sorry you are so angry...and I know that people who go to church have tried to ruin your life. But what they espouse is not what Christ would do... I cannot apologize for something they are doing, but you have my sympathy. However, I don't appreciate the fuck you...especially since you don't know me from anyone...the worst part of it is that I would be standing there next to you to support you...

sP

[Occulus]

98. No, actually, YOU are wrong

and, typically, you do not see why.

Let's examine what you said that initially touched me off:

"I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men".

You have also stated that as a christian you cannot believe otherwise. What you fail you 'get' is that, by definition, you are telling me that me having sex, period, is wrong. As much as you would like to do so- probably because, if you could, you wouldn't look like a hypocrite- you cannot remove from your own original statement that fact.

Given I cannot get married because YOUR religious beliefs are being enforced, I must have sex outside of marriage. The one follows the other. Again, I cannot stress strongly enough that this is directly because your beliefs, whomever may hold them (you or someone else), are being enforced upon me right this moment, where I sit. All of this, added to what you originally said ("I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men"), makes it a very personal and very direct attack, not upon any belief I may hold, but upon me, personally, and a whole lot of other people here.

You can't say what you're saying and still claim to support us. Campaign in your church to allow gay marriage on the federal level and I might believe you.

ed.: punctuation

[ProdigalJunkMail]

read the questions before what you are bitter about

this was a discussion about me and my SONS and DAUGHTERS. I had only been speaking about daughters up to that point and a poster asked me why I didn't mention my sons. I pointed out that I do not have sons so I was speaking about my girls and I then said that it would hold true for men and women speaking to the fact that I would do the same for either...

You can believe as you wish. But you don't know me...and your animosity toward me is misplaced. Sorry you feel that way...it is obvious you are very hurt. I wish I could help you.

sP

by the way, I don't think marriage to gay/lesbians should be restricted...but you didn't ask me that; you just assumed.

[LostinVA]

109. The poster isn't talking about SEX, even though that's what YOU'RE focusing on

They're talking about marriage equality for every adult American.

edited for spelling mistake.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

112. well sex and marriage are kind of intertwined for christians of most sects

and that is what I was addressing. But you will see later (in this subthread) my stance on equal marriage rights.

sP

[LostinVA]

114. I'm an ex CCD teacher, and one of my minors was Comparative Religion

Plus, to this day, I read alot of theological books. I know at least as much, and most probably more, as you do about this subject.

And, what would you tell a gay child? That they couldn't a responsible, loving physical life with someone they love, and with whom they are in a committed relationship? Hey, I know the rules of the Gospels -- you can't have it both ways. Which is it?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

117. well, I never said you didn't

but the person is pissed about not getting able to get married but this whole thread (at least my parts of it) have been about sex outside of marriage. I was not aware if you had read that all as you appear to have just joined the conversation. No need to whip it out and compare ... intellects.

sP

[Midlodemocrat]

119. Oh, bullshit. Christ spoke about adultery and divorce, not pre-marital

sex. And, any references to the Old Testament aren't Christian. He wasn't even alive.

And, Christ spoke about loving one another. Until the archaic laws in this country are changed, how are my GLBT friends supposed to have the same loving, fulfilling, physical relationship I enjoy?

You are free to think what you want to, but its views like yours that keep our GLBT friends from equal rights.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

121. don't bother to read anything else I have written here

sheesh...

sP

[Midlodemocrat]

125. Gee, I guess I didn't realize this was your private message board

along with 'your' subthread.


Jeez. :eyes:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

129. you're really tightly focused on the issue at hand, I see

why shred something someone has written after failing to read the contextual messages as well? :eyes:

n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

101. Well, I can't get married. I don't have legal rights.

Sure I could marry a man, but I'm a lesbian. Are you saying that it's wrong for me to have sex before marriage? I may never be able to marry.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

104. well, I cannot say what is right or wrong for YOU

only you can do that. I am teaching my family what I believe...not enforcing it on you. The only person who should enforce life decisions like that is yourself with whatever belief structure you hold to. I think you should be able to marry and I am sorry people who claim to be christians are trying to stop you.

sP

[Occulus]

105. Don't bother

I already paddled up that river until I got too tired to paddle anymore.

[stanwyck]

111. If you love your daughter

realize she is a person, another human being, and not a possession. Exposing your child to a ceremony which addresses her genitalia and putting the focus on her sexuality as being under the supervision of Daddy is not about understanding that your child is a person. Guide her, yes. But take ownership of her sexuality? No. And this story out of Jordan is NOT that far removed in sentiment from these "Daddy owns my hymen" ceremonies.

[Midlodemocrat]

29. Yes. The whole purity ball thing is just a weakened version

of this type of behavior. It is beyond disgusting.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

87. Only in the sense that a job is a weakened form of slavery, or some such.

Trying to compare purity balls, disturbing as they are, to murder, is both foolish and unjust.

[Midlodemocrat]

120. It's a weakened form of patriarchal control

and you can't deny that.

A father has no business in his daughter's sex life. It's a tad disgusting if you ask me.

[LostinVA]

110. Yup

[Annces]

16. I disagree

There is an unhealthy obsession that leads to warped behavior in these fathers and the societal mores they have in their heads.

[Mandate My Ass]

19. Agreed.

I read the article about the purity balls and the emcee said, "Dads, are you ready to war for your daughter's virginity?" :puke:

These people have a lot of problems with sex but none with violence.

[Der Blaue Engel]

42. No, I can equate the two right now, because it is the same freaking mentality

Don't tell me what I can equate. Thanks.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

57. logical fallacy seems to be ok with you...so go with that n/t

[Der Blaue Engel]

128. Denial seems to be okay with you...so go with that n/t

[trumad]

73. Like it's not going to happen...

Yeah..those American fundies are gentle creatures.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

84. well, it doesn't generally happen here a lot

and in the tiny country of Jordan it happened over 20 times last year according to the article. Probably has happened here...will likely happen again...but it will never become part of the norm.

sP

[no_hypocrisy]

7. Let me guess. He killed her because she MIGHT HAVE lost her

viginity in the future.

[two gun sid]

8. Jesus Christ, that is just so fucked up.

[treestar]

Man the penalties for homicide are pretty lenient in Jordan

It doesn't seem to make a difference that he was wrong, either. Or would there be no penalty at all if the autopsy had shown the girl was not a virgin.

Obviously the concept of love for his daughter was completely alien to the guy - she was just one of his possessions. Poor girl.

This the type of thing the freeper types will cite as showing how "barbaric the Muslims are" yet at the same time, they have a bit of envy that they can't get away with treating women like this.

[Annces]

10. Very ugly

This man cannot be a happy person in any way, shape or form.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. She ran away several times for unknown reasons.

Let me take a fucking guess.

Her father was insane!

[Fovea]

11. Anybody wanna spot me a plane ticket to Jordan

and enough walking around money to buy a Kalashnikov?

I think I can solve this jackoff's problem in a way that is both permanent, and instructive to passersby.

[jellybeancurse]

28. Ha!

:evilgrin:

[blonndee]

13. She had run away "for unknown reasons."

I can easily imagine what "reasons" she might have had, given what kind of scumbag she had for a father. And the fact that doctors would perform such an exam...very sad.

[atommom]

18. I'm sure he was abusive. The poor girl probably had good reason to run away. nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

55. I'm thinking sexual abuse (non-penetrating). n/t

J

[Lurking Dem]

17. oh the horror.

But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked by conservative lawmakers who argue that tougher penalties would lead to promiscuity.

And promiscuity is so much worse than, say, murdering your own child.

:sarcasm:

[helderheid]

72. God, no kidding.

[Selatius]

21. This is why I will always feel it is OK to pass judgment upon other cultures.

I believe the idea of equality of the sexes and liberty will always be superior to ideas in the world that promote or tolerate "honor killings" of women, female genital mutilation, abortion of fetuses for the fact that they're female, and forcing women to wear burqas and hijabs against their will. The cultures in the world that foster inequality between men and women are things I find I must condemn with respect to my own views.

With respect to this father, he is guilty of outright murder. The fact that he murdered a female should never warrant a more lenient sentence than if he murdered a male.

[Deep13]

51. If something is harmful, cruel or even insane...

...it is so regardless of where it happens.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

96. Right, any country that treated a racial minority the way that women

are routinely treated in many cultures would earn worldwide condemnation.

But if they mistreat women, that's "just their culture."

I remind people that white Southerners defended segregation and Afrikaners defended apartheid as "part of our culture."

[etherealtruth]

116. Exactly

There seems to be the attitutde that it's not a human rights violation if the acts are perpetrated against women.

[fujiyama]

137. This is inexcusable and uncivilized behavior

I agree completely with your post.

[Dulcinea]

26. That's absolutely barbaric.

How much do you wanna bet she was abused by her father? Sexually, mentally and/or emotionally?

[Javaman]

45. This passage from the article says it all...

"Weeks ago, the girl had returned home from a family protection clinic after doctors had vouched for her virginity and the father had signed a pledge not to harm her,"

There is certainly a back story to this that we will never hear.

The poor kid. :(

[Dorian Gray]

27. Wow.

That's absolutely disgusting, disturbing, and just plain old sick. I truly don't undertand the mindset that would lead a father to kill his daughter, no matter what. It's absolutely despicable.

[Deep13]

48. "The tests proved that she was a virgin"

No such test exists. I've read trial transcripts where medical experts testify that teenage rape victims often have no physical signs days after the crime. Any slight damage that a 17 yr. old would incur from sexual intercourse would be gone in days. I suspect the doctors lied to protect the girl's safety.

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. An intact hymen is generally a pretty good clue -

not proof positive, but it is biblical, therefore satisfactory to the primatives.

[Deep13]

68. The hymen is an elastic muscle.

Any tears heal quickly. A lack of damage proves nothing. You are right about the Biblical reference being programmed into people's thinking. It is about as reliable as the six-day creation of the universe.

[Lurking Dem]

113. It is almost always torn or stretched

if intercourse has occurred. It is very rare for a hymen to be completely intact after sex. It is usually completely destroyed with vaginal childbirth.

I remember reading a story about a Muslim girl in Turkey whose mother took her to a doctor to sew up her hymen because it had torn after a wreck on her bicycle. They had to pay a great deal of money to keep it all quiet.

[Deep13]

115. I only know what the forensic nurse testified to.

If you have more direct knowledge, then you must be right. None of our victims was a mother, so she did not testify to the effects of child-birth.

[Lurking Dem]

122. Father-in-law was president of ACOG for quite a long time.

[NoodleyAppendage]

53. The father likely had latent urges to screw his daughter...he's rather kill her than share her.

This wasn't about the girl's virginity or family honor. It was, however, about a mentally ill father, who likely had latent sexual urges towards his daughter that were manifest in his persistent obsession about an imagined sex life.

J

[sweetheart]

60. She was a virgin 'til her father's bullet penetrated her. nt

[donsu]

75. men, including fathers have no business sticking their noses in women's

wombs, vaginas or armpits.

I want world wide Women's Rights for women to be the owners of their own bodies.

hope this father spends the remainder of his life in a small prison cell.

condolences to her mother.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

89. I think you probably go to far.

If you mean that purely literally then obviously it's true, but fathers (and mothers) most certainly do have not merely a right but a duty to take a protective interest in the sex lives, and every other aspect of the lives, of their children of either gender until they reach maturity, and I get the impression that your post is intended to disagree with that.

[donsu]

100. to a point

of course parents have to teach safe sex

safe from STDs

and safety from pregnancies (and if pregnancy occurs, for whatever reason, they must be taught about abortion as a possible cure/remedy)

and parents have to protect their children from pedophiles and immature men and women who are drawn to children and young people because they are uncomfortable with adults sexually.

and protect them from rapists/murders.

[SayWhatYo]

91. I disagree too...

Pretty much agree with everything Donald Ian Rankin said in his reply.

*when I say I disagree, I don't mean about this asshole rotting in a prison cell... Although, I think instead of rotting in a prison cell this guy should be forced into force labour for the rest of his life... No rest except for a couple hours of sleep every day...

[Deep13]

124. Gee, how radical.

Next thing you'll want women to vote.
:sarcasm:

[theboss]

132. Even if they are, like, 12...

I think fathers should have an interest in the sexual health of their daughters until they are 18.

This story is awful in its own right; it does not need to become a validation of some other radical ideology.

[TZ]

99. The American version of this story..

and this nearly happened in my family- my dad tried to take my younger's sister's boyfriend to court to sew for statutory rape when he found out they had been sleeping together. She was 17 he was 18 so there was no basis. But pretty destructive to the family for a while. Bet this happens seriously in places in country (red states most likely) where the boyfriend is jailed...:-(

[Bucky]

102. Don't fool yourself. Red states have no monopoly on stupid sexist control freaks

And don't forget all those 2004 election maps. The country is mostly purple. We have a lot of growing up to do, as a species.

[Beaverhausen]

118. and nothing will happen with this guy- he will go free

read the whole article.

Disgusting.

[shadowknows69]

123. Usually against the death penalty

but I question this things humanity. Lets kill it.

[Missy M]

130. If he was so worried about "family honor"....

why didn't he just kill himself. That would have solved everything, he wouldn't have to worry.

[slackmaster]

131. In Jordan?

If it was New Jersey, I would care more.

[MrSlayer]

135. Religious insanity is rampant over there.

As sad as this is, the girl might be better off. Having to live among the insane people there is worse than death for a lot of women.

[ComeAndTakeIt]

136. Around the world, how many women kill their sons?

for dishonoring the family???