Babies born in Fallujah are showing illnesses and deformities on a scale never seen before

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3585&Itemid=1&ed=88

'Special Weapons' Have a Fallout on Babies in Iraq

Inter Press Service
By Ali al-Fadhily and Dahr Jamail*

FALLUJAH, Jun 12 (IPS) - Babies born in Fallujah are showing illnesses and deformities on a scale never seen before, doctors and residents say.

The new cases, and the number of deaths among children, have risen after "special weaponry" was used in the two massive bombing campaigns in Fallujah in 2004.

After denying it at first, the Pentagon admitted in November 2005 that white phosphorous, a restricted incendiary weapon, was used a year earlier in Fallujah.

In addition, depleted uranium (DU) munitions, which contain low-level radioactive waste, were used heavily in Fallujah. The Pentagon admits to having used 1,200 tonnes of DU in Iraq thus far.

[EFerrari]

1. Post-massacre babies, the new boomers.

:nuke:

[High Plains]

46. Or the new bombers...

[EFerrari]

76. A friend of mine at the now defunct War Blogging called it

the day the so called Battle of Fallujah was reported. :cry:

[Donnachaidh]

2. Wait until our kids get back from Iraq and start having kids

The MSM doesn't like to talk about the birth defects that are happening to the vets from the first Iraq invasion. They will ignore what is going to happen to quite a few of those who are still there.

But hey, depleted uranium doesn't cause problem for OUR side, does it? :sarcasm:

[Tutonic]

6. Its alreay being documented. Can we find at least five congress

people with a pliable backbone?

[EFerrari]

8. And for years now. Often, the children born before the deployment

are the only healthy ones in the family.

:(

[Donnachaidh]

9. can we find any senators with a pliable backbone?

Both houses are the equivalent of a Gumby Congress. ALL of them.

[bertman]

32. The problem seems to be that most of them seem to have exceptionally pliable backbones.

I'd like to see them develop some rigidity of the spinal column, myself.

[Donnachaidh]

56. ALL of them have gumby spines - in BOTH houses

NONE can sit upright without help. :sarcasm:

[StClone]

65. I think you fail to consider

All that lobbyist and special interest money is so heavy even with a good spine they couldn't stand upright.

[jwirr]

84. If we can what are we going to ask them to do? Speak up? Yes, but

what else? As the parent of a disabled child there is nothing worse that we can do to our soldiers and the Iraqi people. We are making war on their children. End the war? Yes, but it is too late for these children. Free health care for all of them too? This whole thing is just sickening. If the rw and their god george don't get punished for this then there is no justice.

[Bette Noir]

20. The father of a friend of mine was exposed to radiation during WWII.

His wife had about a dozen miscarriages before bearing a live daughter, with multiple anomalies, who died a few days after birth. Their one surviving child, my friend, had a parasitic twin in his chest, and died of cancer in his thirties.

Our own veterans can look forward to family stories like that. Bush won't care.

[Flying Dream Blues]

47. As Cheney would say, "So?" You're right, they DON'T care. It makes me sick!! nt

[Donnachaidh]

55. And more importantly, the spawn of wealthy Republican families WON'T care

And as it stands now, we have NO ONE pushing for UNIVERSAL healthcare, so all of the folks in Washington won't care.

THEY have healthcare - they kept their kids from the war. THEY won't pay for the generational damage done to the soldiers who fought for BIG OIL.

Kinda makes one PROUD to be an Ameican, eh? :sarcasm:

[Chulanowa]

81. Why should they care? You need to remember...

This is all according to plan

Who makes up the ranks of the military? Outside the brass, it's not the silver spoon crowd. It's not the rich people's kids. It's hte lower-income folks, the immigrants, the just-trying-to-make-ends-meet-for-my-wife-and-kids sorts.

Cull the population of the poor - who hte wealthy universally regard as worthless, parasitic, and disposable - and enslave the remainder to the medical industry, while denying htem or their families any recompense due to failure to serve a full eight years or however long.

One reason they don't want this war to end, is because the prospect of having a whole bunch of well-trained and pissed-off men and women coming home and looking to washington for back wages and VA benefits and coming away empty scares the shit out of this administration.

[Hekate]

3. Masters of War Crimes

I will spit on their graves, given the chance.

Hekate

[bdamomma]

42. I would glad to do the same thing.

[tburnsten]

43. Who is?

Soldiers or Pentagon officials? Never forget who sends our military places, it is the civilian leadership. Military leadership may authorize this or that but the blame for everything is ultimately upon the civilian leadership. Which makes their incompetence all the more infuriating.

[Hekate]

59. Donald Effing Rumsfeld, for one. Bush. Cheney. Any generals who got in their way were fired/retired

I don't think those low-level, low-IQ soldiers at Abu Ghraib invented those abominations for themselves. The war crimes were set in motion at the highest levels of civilian government.

Bob Dylan's song "Masters of War" never says a word about the privates and corporals -- it's all about the architects...

I want my country back.

Hekate

[izquierdista]

4. Phosphorous is natural

In fact, it's a necessary component of fertilizers. The white form is a hideous thing to use in warfare, but once it has burned to P2O5, it is beneficial to the environment. DU on the other hand, has three strikes against it: teratogen, residual radioactivity and heavy metal poison.

[Mutley]

5. Hey, they're only brown people.

(The preceding is heavy on the :sarcasm: for you literal-minded people out there.)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

7. Good thing we fought the terrorists over there instead of over

here, we've got enough pollution to go around. If this doesn't create a whole new generation of people with a score to settle I don't know what will.

[DogPoundPup]

10. No words can describe... hideous doesn't even cover the complete

horror bush has caused to humanity!

[pokercat999]

24. Let's get this straight....WE DID THIS, yes we were

led by Cheney with the puppet Bush as his front man but WE allowed this. Me and you and everyone else with out a torch and pitch fork in their hand.

[awoke_in_2003]

35. Sadly, that is the awful, dirty truth. nt

[CoffeeCat]

37. You said it...

The reality is--that when and if these criminals are ever tried for their
disgusting filth---people will demand to know what in the hell the American
people were doing while these war crimes were happening?

Were we out in the streets? Were we fighting back?

This nation--and I'm including myself in this--is not doing enough to stop these
sociopaths.

This entire nation should be out in the streets, demanding impeachment and justice.

But we're not. And we will pay dearly for that.

[f the letter]

53. Amen.

It's hard to get that message across to those who feel like they're doing their part by an occasional phone call to their congresscreature or writting letters to editors or ranting to friends. This is on my hands, this is on your hands, and we will all answer for it one way or another. We should stop fooling ourselves : in-the-box activism is only making us feel better, and barely even doing that. We need to find better ways of getting the message out

[Vilis Veritas]

39. Not enough pain to justify pitch forks and torches, IMO.

The sad FACT is that there is not enough PAIN to justify the torch and pitch forks. Until there is real quantifiable pain on a visceral level in the daily lives of millions of people in this country, you will be standing on the corner carrying your pitch forks and placards alone.

This is the reality of the new Fascism, it is illusory and veiled behind the consumerism that drives the global economy. We have been given all forms of cake that help to mitigate the severest of pain and therefore rebellion is 'Off the table'.

These are my thoughts and opinions...

saddlesore

[pokercat999]

96. Lack of collective pain, just one huge result of the all

volunteer Military. Without a draft it's so easy to see them as mercenaries or as professionals, with a draft they are us, our fellow citizens, the kin of our friends, stolen from us by an uncaring government.

Hiding the funerals and the coffins coming home, hiding the wounded the maimed and injured, their lives and families destroyed, one more thing we ALLOW that keeps those pitch forks in the barn.

As things are now that uncaring government just shrugs it's shoulders, hands out to the side, palms up and says "what KIAs/WIAs"? We should have a damn poster with Uncle Sam in this pose with that caption.

If there had been no draft in the sixties we would still be in Vietnam.

[jwirr]

86. So true. Nor will we be able to undo this one.

[bagrman]

115. Your so right, the nuts are running the asylum.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Brought to them courtesy of Bush, Congress, The Pentagon, and the taxpayers of America.

None of whom accept responsibility.

[crikkett]

120. And just about half us voters. Don't forget our part in this. n/t

[Botany]

12. Before we leave Iraq we should take every last one of those Blackwater .....

... bastards and drop them off into Fallujah .... bush & Cheney too .. they waited untill
after they stole the 2004 election and then set off their operation pay back on Fallujah
because the people there in the spring of 2004 killed some Blackwater shits.

[billyoc]

13. How many will grow up to be historians?

A goodly amount, I hope.

[spanone]

14. our munitions are the monstrous gift that keeps on giving....

and we're the civilized ones :sarcasm:

[grassfed]

15. Israeli Military used White Phosphorus in Lebanon in 06

It has come to light that IDF soldiers fired phosphorus rounds in order to cause fires in Lebanon. An artillery commander has admitted to seeing trucks loaded with phosphorus rounds on their way to artillery crews in the north of Israel.A direct hit from a phosphorus shell typically causes severe burns and a slow, painful death. International law forbids the use of weapons that cause "excessive injury and unnecessary suffering", and many experts are of the opinion that phosphorus rounds fall directly in that category.

The International Red Cross has determined that international law forbids the use of phosphorus and other types of flammable rounds against personnel, both civilian and military.

http://randompottins.blogspot.com/2006/09/insane-and-monstrous-cluster-bombing.html

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761781.html

[tburnsten]

48. Painful as opposed to any other direct hit?

Any direct hit from any artillery is not going to leave enough of a human left to feel pain. What white phosphorous does (it is legitimate to use it for signalling purposes, which it excels at) is have a wider than normal radius of damage, and instead of a blast like ordinary shells it just burns. Nasty stuff.

[jwirr]

87. Is white phosphorus the same thing as napalm? I remember the

pic of the Vietnamese girl running down the street on fire. That pic helped end the war.

[KamaAina]

123. No. Napalm is jellied petroleum burning at 3000 degrees C.

That'll ruin your whole day! Talk about a hideous thing to use in warfare... um, who exactly are the good guys, again?

[tburnsten]

129. We used it to try to remove the foliage

the Viet Cong were using for concealment, though I'm sure it's use as a burning instrument was valued as well.

[Martin Eden]

16. the REAL BUSH LEGACY

Tragically, this report is only scratching the surface, on many fronts.

[leftchick]

17. And some people deny the US has committed GENOCIDE in Iraq....

"Many babies were born with major congenital malformations," a pediatric doctor, speaking on condition of anonymity, told IPS. "These infants include many with heart defects, cleft lip or palate, Down's syndrome, and limb defects."

The doctor added, "I can say all kinds of problems related to toxic pollution took place in Fallujah after the November 2004 massacre."

Many doctors speak of similar cases and a similar pattern. The indications remain anecdotal, in the absence of either a study, or any available official records.

The Fallujah General Hospital administration was unwilling to give any statistics on deformed babies, but one doctor volunteered to speak on condition of anonymity -- for fear of reprisals if seen to be critical of the administration.

"Maternal exposure to toxins and radioactive material can lead to miscarriage and frequent abortions, still birth, and congenital malformation," the doctor told IPS. There have been many such cases, and the government "did not move to contain the damage, or present any assistance to the hospital whatsoever.

"These cases need intensive international efforts that provide the highest and most recent technologies that we will not have here in a hundred years," he added.

:cry:

[Igel]

18. Phosphorus, not a huge deal.

U is a toxic metal, but all I've read are claims that it was used in Fallujah. Since it's mostly used against armor and for bunker-busting, I'd like evidence it's used, and this isn't it.

DU's radiation is no big deal. 4.5 billion years half-life? Last fall I got a few dozen micrograms of radioactive iodine; it's half life is under 4 days. It was more dangerous than having my chair made out of DU.

As for birth defects ... Iraq has one of the highest rates of consanguineous marriages in the world.

[stillcool]

19. I thought that was well known..

and well documented. A quick perusal found this article, but I'm sure there are tons more...
and here's a great photo gallery. You can pick just about any kind of pictures you want to see.
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/albums.php?set_albumListPage=3

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/fallujah/2005/1116admits.htm

US Admits Using White Phosphorous in Falluja
By Jamie Wilson
Guardian
November 16, 2005

US forces yesterday made their clearest admission yet that white phosphorus was used as a weapon against insurgents in Iraq. A Pentagon spokesman told the BBC last night that it had been used as "an incendiary weapon" during the assault last year on Falluja in 2004.

Lieutenant Colonel Barry Venable said the substance, which can be used to lay smokescreens but burns down to the bone in contact with skin, was not covered by international conventions on chemical weapons. But Paul Rodgers of the University of Bradford's Department of Peace Studies said the substance would probably fall into the category of chemical weapons if used directly against people.
------------------------------------------------------------------

A recent documentary by the Italian state broadcaster, RAI, claimed that Iraqi civilians, including women and children, had died of burns caused by white phosphorus during the assault on Falluja. The report has been strenuously denied by the US. But Col Venable said it had been used to dislodge enemy fighters from entrenched positions in the city.

"White phosphorus is a conventional munition. It is not a chemical weapon. They are not outlawed or illegal," he told the BBC. "We use them primarily as obscurants, for smokescreens or target marking in some cases. However, it is an incendiary weapon, and may be used against enemy combatants."

Asked if it was used as an offensive weapon during the siege of Falluja, he replied: "Yes, it was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants. When you have enemy forces that are in covered positions that your high explosive artillery rounds are not having an impact on, and you wish to get them out of those positions, one technique is to fire a white phosphorus round into the position: the combined effects of the fire and smoke - and in some case the terror brought about by the explosion on the ground - will drive them out of the holes so you can kill them with high explosives."

The Guardian columnist George Monbiot said yesterday that accounts of the use of white phosphorous during the battle for Falluja were published in the March 2005 edition of Field Artillery, a magazine published by the US army. A reporter with California's North County Times, embedded with the marines during the offensive, also reported soldiers firing into buildings a mixture of white phosphorous and high explosives known as "shake'n'bake".

White phosphorous burns spontaneously on contact with air, producing phosphorus pentoxide smoke. According to the standard US industrial safety sheet, the smoke "releases heat on contact with moisture, and will burn mucous surfaces. Contact ... can cause severe eye burns and permanent damage."

[tburnsten]

49. That's WP, he was talking about Depleted Uranium

which is used for armor-piercing tank rounds mostly, it isn't very useful against the soft vehicles that insurgents use. For soft targets the idea is to create a larger blast, which can throughly obliterate the target, versus hard targets which will shrug off ordinary high explosive warheads. Hard targets like main battle tanks require armor piercing projectiles, which by nature cause less overall damage than an explosive projectile but have the robustness to punch holes in the armor of the target they hit. Naturally a tank crew is going to want to use the right rounds for different targets, as AP rounds will often fly right through soft vehicles causing little damage other than on the exact point of impact.

[stillcool]

121. well jeez...

there's plenty of depleted uranium for everyone! It's already an issue from the "Gulf War Syndrome", and the "Balkan War Syndrome".
http://www.balkansyndrome.com/
http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du3.htm

[Bette Noir]

22. So, because their culture allows cousins to marry,

it's okay for us to rain fire and death on them?

[awoke_in_2003]

36. What the poster said may

or may not be true, but I don't think the intended meaning that because of the cousin marrying they should be bombed. The point is that people closely related tend to give birth to kids with problems.

[rucognizant]

26. Freeper/SNOB.........

There is a young woman iher 30's locally, who was pleased to be the first woman in the family to be navy after several 100 years of
the men in the fmaily serving. Sh was stationed on a ship in the Persian Gulf during Op Desert Storm. 28/TWENTY EIGHT, of her navy buddies are now DEAD! from DU related illnesses.
She tells of one man, who picked up a dusty souviner from the ground in Iraq, put it in his duffle bag, and went home.
After tucking in the baby he had not seen, while overseas.......the eager couple went to bed themselves...leaving the open duffle bag in the nursery. The baby was dead the next morning, and the hapless parents followed a few days later!
Family of 3 killed by a radioactive rock from Iraq!

[Orrex]

33. Link, please?

That's a horrific story--I'd like to read more about it.

[bagrman]

44. Heres a hugh compliation of data.

http://www.rense.com/Datapages/dudata.htm

Only go here on an empty stomach, the children of that radioactive waste land are not pretty.

[Orrex]

77. Thanks for the link

Some months ago I read a lengthy article about children born in Viet Nam after widespread use of Agent Orange. Their deformities were sad and horrific.

For now, though, I was hoping to read more about the particular case describe, in which a soldier brought home a "dusty souvenir" that killed him, his wife, and his young child.

But thank you again for the link.

[TheWraith]

99. Rense is a conspiracy theory website, and should not be considered credible.

Please don't pretend like it contains actual reliable information in between the articles about UFOs and Zionist mafias.

[bagrman]

101. The link doesn't even go to the main page, just a lot of info from other news sources at their sites

[TheWraith]

105. You think that makes it better?

Again: RENSE IS NOT A SANE WEBSITE. In addition to having NO factual basis, it's also racist and promotes total lunacy like the idea that Mad Cow Disease is sexually transmitted. If you think that it's going to link to anything that's trustworthy, then you're completely deluding yourself, and might as well be citing the Weekly World News.

[bagrman]

111. Well the certainly gore at least one of everyones sacred cows. Heres a story on DU for Europe

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article/64938448-uranium-bombing-in-iraq-contaminates-europe

Becareful, it may have come from Rense though.

[TheWraith]

125. Page no longer exists. I think I know the story though.

A report that a station in England detected 4x higher uranium levels in the environment than there should be, and they blame it on depleted uranium from Iraq somehow making its way against the jetstream. Of course, what nobody bothers to actually look at is the fact that ONLY one station out of several in England and dozens in Europe reported any variance in normal levels. In other words, it's a single freak anomaly, probably from a local source. But they don't let that fact get in the way of a nice, hysterically paranoid story.

Which brings me back to the original point: YOU ARE CITING A LUNATIC FRINGE WEBSITE. And no matter how much you try to justify it, you're still quite implicitly saying that the stories about the Zionist mafia and the giant UFO being captured are real news.

[bagrman]

131. Hmm page opened right up, no UFOs or Zionist mafia. I think the

point of this original post was to get peoples attention and to look for more info. That probably worked. Hard to say what your agenda is.

[Sequoia]

80. That sounds like a horror movie...too dreadful to be believed.

What other things don't we know? That is a terribly sad story.

[TheWraith]

100. Please provide proof of this story.

Because what you describe has really no scientific basis. No "radioactive rock" could kill a person in three days unless you happened to pick up a piece of a fresh nuclear meltdown.

[Hekate]

62. Depleted Uranium is well-known to the Veterans for Peace, & Amy Goodman of Democracy Now!...

...has done segments on the damage it has done to the veterans of Gulf War I, and their wives and their subsequently born children. In some units there is not one normal baby born after daddy was exposed to DU. Wives get uterine cancer at a horrific rate.

You should investigate a little. It was certainly an eye-opener for me.

Hekate

[glitch]

73. WTF difference does it make whether it is the radiation or the heavy metals!??

It still kills and causes birth defects and pollutes for generations and should not be used by civilized countries, no matter how "effective" it is in its intended use.

[tburnsten]

83. Well, when we are talking about it as if radiation is the danger...

then it kind of does matter that the heavy metal poisoning is at least as dangerous or more likely more dangerous than the radiation. And don't forget that in areas with higher background radiation the populations tend to live longer, no idea why. Medical geography is an up and coming field.

[glitch]

95. Agreed iDU's known danger needs to be corrected, just not dismissed.

[jwirr]

89. It is also effecting our own soldiers families from what I have read. nt

[LynnTheDem]

117. I'm amazed how you still manage to amaze me.

[iamthebandfanman]

128. ill be sure to let the soldiers

who came home and had children only for their child to be born with defects know they must just be imagining a connection.

but hey, youre probably right... mind if i put some DU dust in your AC ?

[upi402]

21. Who Would Tony Snow?

On this or any other lie the librul media spins trying to paint the war on terra and FOR out troops, god, and glorious pride...
Why I think he'd try to snow us all, that's who. Snow us, That it's not bad, but a good thing when A-rab babies are being culled.

My gawd, how much must we swallow before we stop bringing love beads to knife fights?

[lovuian]

23. Iraq was nuked and so was Afghanistan and other places

America when it wages war will leave the area's people decimated

thing is we killed our own soldiers too

[rucognizant]

27. ANd then there is

My friends oldest son.....Op D Storm too. He is slowly rotting from the inside out! His 3rd child born after his, service in Iraq, has multiple medical problems............The older 2 are healthy!

[tburnsten]

50. Depoletyed Uranium is not a "nuclear" weapon

it is just used as the material for the core of armor piercing cannon rounds, because it is incredibly dense and so makes an excellent penetrator. Whatever its side effects are, nuclear explosions are not one of them, and is not the intended purpose.

[f the letter]

54. Well, yes and no.

It's a weapon that is radioactive and creates a birth defect / leukemia / etc boom in the area where it was used for at least a generation, and probably quite a bit more. It doesn't (necessarily) explode or level square miles with one bomb, but its widespread use results in the same fallout and uninhabitable areas that a nuclear bomb would. Calling those side effects is a stretch.. they are no accident.

[tburnsten]

57. It is quite an exaggeration to equate DU shells

with a nuclear warheads fallout. DU shells are localized to a degree no nuclear warhead ever could be, and while they contaminate the area they are fired in, they are not the same radiation spewing animal that a warhead is. And they also cannot be called a "nuclear" weapon because they do not work via nuclear manipulation, they are simply a core for a very conventional projectile. Instead of using an explosive core like ordinary HE shells, they use the very dense depleted uranium to defeat hard armor that would shrug off a blast from the same weapon loaded with high explosive shells. It isn't the same thing at all.

[f the letter]

61. i disagree.

It would be a gross exaggeration to compare a single DU shell to a single nuclear weapon. No room for argument there.

But although every DU shell may be aimed at a particular target, we're talking about their use in two nationwide wars in civilian areas, ten years apart. The toxic residue from the use of the depleted uranium core is spread wherever there was fighting, which is essentially the whole country. And although each DU shell has negligible residue _if compared to_ a nuclear warhead, the dropping of a single nuclear bomb in the middle of Iraq would have similar long-term consequences for background radiation, birth defects, under-five and infant mortality rates, cancers, etc. The DU residue usually takes a powdery form after the shell explodes, meaning it spreads all too easily in a desert environment.

The argument that DU is just a core of a regular weapon misses the point of the original article, which is about the deformed children currently being born in Fallujah. A conventional wedding cake with a dog shit in the core of every piece is still inedible, just as a conventinonal bomb with a bunch of other bombs in it is not a conventional explosive but a cluster bomb. Content matters.

[TheWraith]

102. No. There's no grey area in this: depleted uranium does not equal nukes under ANY conditions.

To say that it does shows a complete disregard for the scientific facts and the scientific process.

[f the letter]

112. Please explain your reasoning

Again, i'm making the comparison between long-term effects of country-wide use of radioactive munitions and long-term effects of a nuclear blast. This is, obviously, not the same as saying "Firing a depleted uranium shell is exactly the same as dropping a nuclear bomb." Hopefully that's clear from the previous posts?

Saying something like "under ANY conditions" makes the argument a bit thin.. obviously if you fired, say, a trillion tons of DU shells in one city, it would even more of an effect on birth defects and cancers when compared to being born in that same city following detonation of a nuclear weapon.

The argument can only be over how much depleted uranium can be used in a country before the effect on the civilian population's deformities and radiation-based illnesses match the amount seen from the amount seen from a nuclear bomb.

Whether that amount is very large or very small is sort of missing the larger point here as well. Hopefully we can all agree that it is deeply wrong to use depleted uranium on a large scale in a ground war.

[TheWraith]

124. People lose their minds when you say "radiation."

The "radiation" from depleted uranium is exclusively short range, non-penetrating alpha particles. These can't even make it through skin--they're stopped a few cells deep. Tissue paper will stop these things. You could use a 100-pound brick of depleted uranium as a doorstop and it would never bother you. There's no real radiation threat from it under any normal circumstance.

Sure, it could hurt you if you ingest or inhale depleted uranium--but that's true of ANY heavy metal, including lead from ordinary bullets, the tungsten that's used in some armor-piercing rounds and which is the main alternative to depleted uranium, etcetera. That has nothing to do with radiation, it has to do with the stuff being poisonous and having its own genotoxic properties.

To talk about "radiation" without understanding the basic facts, and to describe depleted uranium as a nuclear weapon--with no distinctions or clarifications, the way people around here are prone to speak on this subject--does nothing but perpetuate false myths and make the proponents look like lunatic fringe tin-foil-hatters ranting about nuclear bullets.

[loveable liberal]

64. Its radioactive and toxic.

it is 1.6 times as dense as lead and upon impact it vaporizes leaving toxic, radioactive dust that is inhaled and eaten by people. It then causes multiple medical problems.

[tburnsten]

67. If it vaporized on impact it would be useless

The purpose it serves in ordnance is to create a very dense, heavy projectile that can punch through armored vehicles and disable their critical components on the inside, rendering the vehicle useless. If the DU vaporized on impact, how could it punch through the quite solid armor? It is basic physics and ballistics, it has nothing to do with the fact that it was once active uranium. If there were another otherwise worthless heavy metal we had in reasonable abundance then I'm sure we would be using that for cannon AP rounds instead, but the actual purpose of the material in the rounds is to create a dense, heavy, solid projectile that is capable of punching through light and medium armor, something that a material that vaporized on impact with a solid object could not accomplish.

[loveable liberal]

68. just reading what experts in the field have to say...

Nuclear Waste Vaporized in Iraq by United States of America:
DU in 1st Invasion of Iraq 320 ton
DU in 2nd Invasion of Iraq 1,500 ton
TOTAL 1,820 ton
1,000 kg per ton (TOTAL in kg) 1,820,000 kg
Half uranium vaporized (1/2 TOTAL) 910,000 kg
Uranium used in Hiroshima's Little Boy 64 kg
Equivalent # of Hiroshima's in Iraq 14,218 bombs

The vaporization of the uranium in an atomic bomb results in smaller uranium particles than in the kinetic vaporization of armor piercing rounds, however, the particles from the rounds is still smaller than five microns. In other words the uranium particles will become airborne, they will float in air.

http://www.libertyforlife.com/military-war/wmd.html

http://members.shaw.ca/rolfwitzsche/canada/depleted_uranium.html

[tburnsten]

69. They will also be contained

by the target they are fired into, whereas a nuclear warhead will expel particles over miles and miles of area. Regardless of the health factors, a munition designed specifically to remain solid and punch through armor plating cannot vaporize on impact, otherwise it would serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever but it would be heavier, more expensive, and have more risks than a more ordinary projectile.

[loveable liberal]

70. W'ever. n/t

[Usrename]

71. None of what you are saying is true.

DU vaporizes and burns on impact.

Read a book or something.

A pyrophoric substance will ignite spontaneously; that is, its autoignition temperature is below room temperature. Examples are iron sulfide and many reactive metals including uranium, when powdered or sliced thinly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophoric
Text

[tburnsten]

72. Just checked it out, the edges do flake off

A pyrophoric substance will ignite spontaneously; that is, its autoignition temperature is below room temperature. Examples are iron sulfide and many reactive metals including uranium, when powdered or sliced thinly.

There's your critical compenet, when powdered or sliced thinly. More Wikipedia-

"DU is used for its very high density of 19.1 g/cm3. Civilian uses include counterweights in aircraft, radiation shielding in medical radiation therapy and industrial radiography equipment, and containers used to transport radioactive materials. Military uses include defensive armor plate and armor-piercing projectiles.

Depleted uranium munitions are controversial because of unanswered questions about potential long-term health effects. DU is less toxic than other heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury, and is only very weakly radioactive because of its long half life.<3> While any radiation exposure has risks, no conclusive epidemiological data have correlated DU exposure to specific human health effects such as cancer.<4>"


Because of its density, it makes both an excellent armor and armor defeater.
Like this-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M900.jpg

OK, here we go, looks like you are right. I was unfamiliar with its tendency to catch fire.

Note also that according to recent research,<21> at least some of the most promising tungsten alloys which have been considered as replacement for depleted uranium in penetrator ammunitions, such as tungsten-cobalt or tungsten-nickel-cobalt alloys, possess extreme carcinogenic properties, which by far exceed those (confirmed or suspected) of depleted uranium itself: 100 percent of rats implanted with a pellet of such alloys developed lethal rhabdomyosarcoma within a few weeks. On more properly military grounds, depleted uranium is favored for the penetrator because it is self-sharpening and pyrophoric.<19> On impact with a hard target, such as an armoured vehicle, the nose of the rod fractures in such a way that it remains sharp. The impact and subsequent release of heat energy causes it to disintegrate to dust and burn when it reaches air because of its pyrophoric properties.<19> When a DU penetrator reaches the interior of an armored vehicle, it catches fire, often igniting ammunition and fuel, killing the crew, and possibly causing the vehicle to explode.

[Usrename]

85. The stuff is supposed to be perfectly safe and yet I cannot buy any.

There sure are a whole lot of handling precautions with DU, which seems odd since the stuff is so benign.

There's whole books written about it. I wonder why that is, if the stuff is so safe?

Why can't I go down to WalMart and buy myself some DU ammo? It should make you go hmmmmmm...?

[tburnsten]

88. Well any radioactive material is regulated

and besides, there is no real need for non military use of it. I don't often take that stance, but with material like DU, it makes sense. Conventional copper and lead bullets work just fine. I wouldn't call it perfectly safe, but it isn't the same animal as active uranium.

[sir pball]

91. You can buy NON-depleted uranium no questions asked.

It's pricey at $126/13 grams, and far more radioactive than DU, but the other bulk physical properties are the same (density, hardness, pyrophoricity, toxicity, so forth)..

http://www.unitednuclear.com/uraniumstock.htm

DU ammo is specifically banned under Federal law as armor-piercing.

[TheWraith]

108. It only makes you go "Hmmm" if you don't understand anything.

You can't buy it for the same reason you can't just go out and buy a gallon jug of mercury or five pounds of lead. It's a heavy metal, and therefore poisonous. No conspiracy or radioactive threat needed. And furthermore, it has very few uses.

As to why you can't buy your own DU ammo, it's rated as armor-piercing and therefore illegal under federal gun control laws.

[Pavulon]

109. Sure you can

in the keel of some sailboats..You can buy radioactive material online..

Just dont eat it!
http://www.unitednuclear.com/isotopes.htm

[TheWraith]

107. My God that math is so full of bullshit that I could vomit.

Please don't take this personally, but the fact that you could repeat that nonsense shows that you have absolutely no scientific understanding of the subject.

For starters, depleted uranium is completely different from the uranium used in a nuclear bomb. Furthermore, a nuclear bomb is nuclear because it undergoes nuclear fission or fusion. This does not happen with depleted uranium. It CAN'T happen with depleted uranium, because DU isn't radioactively unstable the way U-235 is.

To compare the fissioning of uranium in a nuke to the fragmenting and normal superheating of a kinetic projectile is like saying that a nuclear bomb and a blowdrier are the same thing because they both produce heat. It's an apples-to-carburetors comparison that's so wrong as to be laughable if it weren't for the fact that some people believe it.

Continuing, we have not used 1500 tons of depleted uranium in Iraq. In fact, we've used well under 120 tons.

Seriously, this is the kind of "science" I'd expect to hear out of the Young Earth Society.

[loveable liberal]

126. Only under 120 tons?? Well lets all sprinkle our ice cream with it.

And you're right, I dont understand it all, my point being with the other poster is that he was arguing that it doesnt vaporize, when I found two sources that seem reliable and posted that it does. Regardless of the "numbers" the reported effects seem to be "real".

The WHO doesnt have much to say about DU, but then for the longest time Agent Orange was perfectly acceptable to use also.

[f the letter]

130. self-delete.. wrong place

[jwirr]

92. So because it serves a purpose the cost of these children is worth it?

I am betting you are not the parent of a disabled child.

[SpiralHawk]

25. The karma of this evil doing rests upon Commander AWOL & republicon cronies

They know the evil they do. Karma shall be theirs.

[JohnyCanuck]

29. And what about the Pentagon generals who disgustingly embraced a WMD

disregarding the horrible effects it could have on their own troops cannon fodder, not to mention the "enemy" civilians.

Uranium’s Effect On DNA Established
by Kate Melville

The use of depleted uranium in munitions and weaponry is likely to come under intense scrutiny now that new research that found that uranium can bind to human DNA. The finding will likely have far-reaching implications for returned soldiers, civilians living in what were once war-zones and people who might live near uranium mines or processing facilities.

Uranium - when manifested as a radioactive metal - has profound and debilitating effects on human DNA. These radioactive effects have been well understood for decades, but there has been considerable debate and little agreement concerning the possible health risks associated with low-grade uranium ore (yellowcake) and depleted uranium.

Now however, Northern Arizona University biochemist Diane Stearns has established that when cells are exposed to uranium, the uranium binds to DNA and the cells acquire mutations, triggering a whole slew of protein replication errors, some of which can lead to various cancers. Stearns' research, published in the journals Mutagenesis and Molecular Carcinogenesis, confirms what many have suspected for some time - that uranium can damage DNA as a heavy metal, independently of its radioactive properties. "Essentially, if you get a heavy metal stuck on DNA, you can get a mutation," Stearns explained. While other heavy metals are known to bind to DNA, Stearns and her team were the first to identify this characteristic with uranium.

Depleted uranium - what is left over when the highly radioactive isotopes of uranium are removed - is widely used by the military. Anti-tank weapons, tank armor and ammunition rounds are just some of the applications. "The health effects of uranium really haven't been studied since the Manhattan Project (the development of the atomic bomb in the early 1940s). But now there is more interest in the health effects of depleted uranium. People are asking questions now," Stearns said.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060307010324data_trunc_sys.shtml

Presentation to the European Parliament"
Keith Baverstock PhD; Department of Environmental Sciences, University of Kuopio, KUOPIO, Finland

I have, during a career of some 30 years, developed expertise in evaluating risks regarding the environmental and occupational exposure to ionising radiation and radioactive materials in many different situations. I have done this in the context of employment by the UK Medical Research Council (1971 to 1991) and the European Regional Office of the World Health Organisation (1991 to 2003), both ostensibly "independent" organisations.

Between 2000 and 2002 I examined the evidence relating to risks from the mildly radioactive depleted uranium. My concern was especially raised by the specific exposure context of inhalation of the dust particles produced when a depleted uranium munition impacts a hardened target and burns, producing fine particles of DU oxide (DUO). This material has no natural analogue and does not arise in the normal refining and processing of uranium for nuclear fuel. There is, therefore, no prior experience of exposure to this material than its use in Iraq in 1991.

According to the International Commission for Radiological Protection (ICRP), inhaled DUO would pose a hazard to the lung from radiation if it were insoluble and a chemical toxicity risk to the kidney (physiological toxicity of kidney malfunction) if it were soluble.

DUO is in fact part insoluble and part sparingly soluble. Since 1998 evidence has accrued that human cells exposed in the laboratory to low concentrations of DU exhibit changes characteristic of malignant cells and indeed, when implanted into host animals, will lead to malignancy. In these experiments it seems unlikely, given the low concentrations and the experimental conditions, that this effect is mediated by radiation, but is rather a chemically mediated genotoxicity. (See for example 1-6 The non-radioactive element, nickel, produces similar effects and is an established carcinogen.

In 2001 this evidence led me to believe that inhaled DUO particles, which are capable of penetrating the deep lung (where they would be retained for long periods) posed, for a period of weeks to months, not only a radiotoxicity risk but also a chemical genotoxicity risk and potentially a synergy between the two. Thus any risk evaluated on the basis of the ICRP recommendations would be likely to underestimate the true risk.

In addition, that DU is only mildly radioactive through alpha emission, raises the possibility of a further risk route mediated by the so called "bystander effect". (See for example; 7, 8) Here a single cell "hit" by an alpha particle sends signals to surrounding cells causing them to behave as if they had been irradiated. In circumstances where bystanders predominate (low dose exposure to alpha particles for example) the bystander effect acts to amplify the "radiation effect".

Thus, detailed examination of DUO reveals three potential risk routes in addition to the conventional radiotoxicity caused by direct irradiation, namely, chemical genotoxicity, synergy between radiation and chemical toxicities and a bystander route.

http://www.grassrootspeace.org/keith_baverstock_23june05.htm

Presentation on Depleted Uranium use in Iraq
by Thomas Fasy MD PhD, Mt. Sinai Medical School NY.
Dr. Fasy is an Associate Clinical Professor of Pathology at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. He has longstanding interests in carcinogenesis and environmental toxicology. In the past two years, he has lectured at conferences and university campuses on the toxic effects of inhaling uranium oxide dusts derived from depleted uranium weapons.

It is a high honor for me to speak before the WORLD TRIBUNAL on IRAQ. I thank the organizing committee for their invitation.

Uranium is radioactive and it is a toxic heavy metal. Inside the body, uranium exists as uranyl ions. Much of the toxicity of uranium is chemically mediated, in addition to the effects mediated by radiation.

In 1896, while conducting experiments with crystal of potassium uranyl sulfate, Henri Becquerel discovered the phenomenon of radioactivity. Uranium, however, was known to be toxic since the 1820's.

In june 1942, when a commission of scientists reported to President Franklin Roosevelt that a uranium fission bomb could be built "in time to influence the outcome of the war", they explicity warned about the toxicity of uranium and consequently, a large scale research program on uranium toxicology was begun in May 1943.

It is now clear that uranium has multiple toxicities. This slide summarizes some of the major toxicities of uranium.

By the early 1900s, uranium was well recognized to be a kidney toxin. By the mid-1940s, uranium was known to be a neurotoxin. By the early 1970s, uranium was recognized to be a carcinogen based on mortality studies of uranium workers and on experiments with dogs and monkeys. The first evidence that uranyl ions bind to DNA was reported in 1949 and by the early 1990s, uranium was shown to be a mutagen. Also, in the early 1990s, uranium was shown to be a teratogen, that is, an inducer of birth defects. The toxic effects of uranium on the kidney and on the nervous system typically occur within days of exposure and radiation probably plays little or no role in mediating these effects. In contrast, the carcinogenic effects of uranium have a delayed onset. The teratogenic effects of uranium might be due to exposure of one parent prior to conception as well as to exposure of the mother to uranium early in pregnancy.

Now let us briefly consider the routes of exposure to uranium. In the context of the dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons, this means exposure to uranium oxides. By far the most dangerous route of exposure to uranium oxides is the inhalational or respiratory route. Absorption of uranium oxides through the gastrointestinal tract, the skin and the conjunctivae is possible but quite limited.

Following impact with hard targets, uranium metal undergoes combustion releasing large quantities of very small uranium oxide dust particles into the environment.

These dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons are drastically different from the natural uranium that is normally present in rocks and soil.

Soil particles contain uranium at very low concentrations, typically less than 5 parts per million; the vast majority of these soil particles, however, are too large to be inhaled deep into the lungs. In contrast, the dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons contain very high concentrations of uranium, typically more than 500.000 parts per million; moreover, most of the D.U. dust particles are sufficiently small to be inhaled deep into the lungs. Thus, compared to the uranium naturally present in the environment, D.U. dust contains uranium in a form that is vastly more bio-available and more readily internalized.

Uranyl ions bind to DNA; they bind in the minor groove of DNA. While bound to DNA, uranyl ions are chemically reactive and can give rise to free radicals which may damage DNA. Chemically mediated DNA damage of this type may contribute to the ability of uranium to induce cancers.

I would now like to present some epidemiologic data from the Basra governate in the south of Iraq. In February 1991, more than 300 tons (possibly much more than 300 tons) of D.U. weapons were used in South of Iraq. After 5-6 year latent periods, increases in childhood cancers and birth defects were documented in the Basra governate. The most recent data indicate a four fold increase in pediatric malignancies and a seven fold increase in congenital malformations compared to 1990, the year preceeding the war.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&for104&topic_id=4124449

[leftchick]

90. I seem to remember an awful lot of democrats

giving their blessings to war crimes back in 2001 and 2002.

[malaise]

28. Depleted uranium does that to you

war crimes trials for war criminals

sp.

[biermeister]

30. interesting overview of DU and other weapons

used in the middle east

www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Rokke-Depleted-Uranium-DU21apr03.htm

[happygoluckytoyou]

31. look for those 3 legged babies in your wheel-chair riding vets' laps coming to a parking lot near u

[AngryAmish]

34. I call bullshit.

There very well could be birth defects from the DU dust but...this is the worst sort of science reporting.

For the thousandth time: correlation is not causation. No statistics were given. None. No names of doctors used.

Science means something. We need proof of war crimes. Anecdotal testimony is not proof.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tuckessee]

52. Why don't you go to Fallujah & check it out yourself.

Debunk it all and write a best selling book about it.

Iraq is a sovereign, democratic nation and Fallujah was liberated a few years ago so you should be able go there and have safe free access to everything including Fallujah's top notch, state of the art medical care facilities.

We all know the US military will be wholly forthcoming and cooperate cheerfully about what they did there so have at it.

[Donnachaidh]

58. try google

there's LOTS of evidence out there. It's too bad that many here in the States likes to play *see no evil, hear no evil* when it comes to the horrors of Depleted Uranium.

[AngryAmish]

60. uuuurrrrggghhhh!!!!

My point is: DU is bad stuff, but this is a bad article.

Do you even understand the difference? When one is making a claim (or even writing about a person making a claim) one has to present evidence. The evidence is there. I believe the evidence about DU. But just making a claim about something does not mean you should be automatically believed. One must present evidence. None is offered in this article.

[bagrman]

97. I don't imagine they have whistle blower protection over there, do ya. Think the defect rate

is better there then any where else in the country? DU use and the effects have never made the headlines never will. Iraq is a waste land, where ever this crap has been used.

[jwirr]

93. That is what they said about the claims made about Agent Orange and

the children with leukemia after Vietnam. It took us years for them to even release the stats.

[defendandprotect]

38. As we teach the world violence, destruction . .. and how to create illness . . . !!!

[Cronus Protagonist]

40. Thank God they're only SHOWING them

It would be worse if they actually HAD them, wouldn't it?

[zippy890]

41. sad need to know kick

:cry:

[MindMatter]

51. Interesting to see how the "pro life" crowd would rationalize this

They will simply ignore it, of course.

We have always known that the term "pro life" actually means anti-abortion. These people don't have any particular reverence for life in general -- just babies.

But here we have a case of infanticide on a large scale and we will never hear a peep from these people.

[jwirr]

94. Not even babies - unborn babies.

[caraher]

63. War is unhealthy for children and other living things

but I don't see any evidence at all of this being exceptionally awful because of "special weapons." The claim that illness and deformity is on a "scale never seen before" begs the question, "by whom?" and demands some statistical backup. But the article's evidence is what an understandably distraught mother says her doctor said in explaining the deaths of her children.

As others have noted, white phosphorous is an inhumane weapon not because of long-term health effects, and the fables about depleted uranium's radioactivity simply show the inability of most people to understand how radioactivity and its biological effects work. DU munitions are more accurately called a repackaging of waste from the nuclear industry, but it's "waste" not because it is radioactive but because it doesn't contain enough of the fissile isotope of uranium to be useful. Uranium is a toxic heavy metal; "depleted" of U-235 DU is less radioactive than equivalent amounts of natural uranium. I wouldn't recommend taking chunks of DU as souvenirs, but even if you were to eat it there would be no observable acute health effects because of radioactivity.

rense.com is about as reliable a source as freerepublic.com

There was definitely WP and probably at least some DU used in Fallujah, but there's no evidence that DU was expended in exceptional quantities - and given the kind of fighting, DU weapons would not be preferred anyway. We'd make a lot more progress toward a humane policy on DU if there were more care given to data collection and analysis of the true health hazards and less use of polarizing, ignorant "it's radioactive!" scare tactics (bananas are radioactive too, you know - as is anything with significant amounts of potassium).

[tburnsten]

66. You got it

Just because something is bad doesn't mean reason has to fly out the window, and DU is definitely not a type of ammunition that is useful for the battles we are in right now, so there is little reason to think that it is being used in inordinate amounts.

[unhappycamper]

74. Infant birth deformity rates in Basra skyrocketed in 2004.

Of course, Willie Pete and cluster bombs do not help the situation.

[jillan]

75. My heart goes out to those kids.

Who is going to care for them? Care for their special needs?

Absolutely heartbreaking and this administration could care less, after all, they feel good about 'cleaning up' Fallujah.

:cry:

[mdmc]

78. very sad indeed

:(

[libodem]

79. Sad beyond belief

I've been expecting such news for a while now. Doesn't make it any easier to hear about it, however. What a dirty rotten trick from the people who claim to be pro-life in all regards from Terry Schivo to every fertile womb. Dirty rotten hypocrites.

[earth mom]

82. This is as infuriating as it is heartbreaking!

:grr:

:cry:

[fascisthunter]

98. "Is that Your Arm?!"

no, but I'd love to thank a Republican

Sociopaths

[The Stranger]

103. Anyone still not think that this was a Genocide?

Bueller? Bueller?

[TheWraith]

104. A couple fairly major factual inaccuracies in this article.

One, I'd like to see their proof that depleted uranium munitions were heavily used in Fallujah, because these rounds are only used on tanks and armored vehicles.

Second, the Pentagon does not "admit to having used 1200 tons of DU." The actual number is about 75 tons, and that's including the weight of the rest of the weapons, so not pure depleted uranium.

[Pavulon]

106. DU is a social issue, this is horseshit

see Journal Oncology , and other Oncology Journals. I have posted many primary sources on the subject.

DU is a heavy metal, like lead. Don't eat it!

http://postconflict.unep.ch/publications/BiH_DU_report.pdf

[bagrman]

114. probably don't want to live around it either, like on a windy day, or pet your dog .

http://www.countercurrents.org/hall230306.htm

Theres nothing good about that shit and it kills indiscriminately long after the round has been fired.

[tburnsten]

116. Ridiuclous

It is worse as a heavy metal poison than anything else, and is hardly a threat by way of radiation.

[bagrman]

119. What basis do you have for a ridiculous comment like that. Let see a link.

[deaniac21]

110. There is ) proof from any reliable source that DU causes ANY

problems of any kind. Unless, of course, you get hit by a DU cannon round. There is no DU in ANY bomb. What would be the point. People that don't understand weapons really look silly when they discuss them.

[bagrman]

113. Some think that when the rounds burn the dust lingers and travel great distances.

Maybe even to Europe.


http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/03/25/18107281.php

[tburnsten]

118. What the hell is "uranium bombing"?

It sounds ridiculous, the only bombs uranium is found in are nuclear ones, which we certainly have not used in Iraq. And it is not depleted uranium either.

[malaise]

122. 36 more Iraqis died today

from suicide bombings.

[iamthebandfanman]

127. WARNING : Graphic.

http://www.bushflash.com/pl_lo.html