"She will stay for a few days. You know, in Europe it isn't like in the United States,

[Indigo Blue]

... where the patients go home after three days." - Dr. Michel Sussmann

-------------------------------

No, this isn't political, and I know many of you don't give a rat's a$$ about Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, or their babies, but it's a comment on healthcare in Europe v the US...

-------------------------------

Angelina's Doctor Calls Brad "My Assistant"; Mayor "Thrilled" by Twins' Nice Connection
Today 1:30 PM PDT by Ken Baker

Angelina Jolie's doctor, Michel Sussmann, held an impromptu press conference on the steps of the Lenval hospital on Sunday afternoon.

He said Brad Pitt and Angelina were as calm as could be.

During the labor and delivery, the couple "were talking, they were together," Sussmann (above left) told reporters outside the Fondation Lenval in Nice, France, where twins Vivienne Marcheline and Knox Leon were born Saturday evening. "It was an epidural, so was awake and speaking and laughing. They were happy."

Pitt never left Jolie's side—"He was my assistant!" Sussmann joked—and he even cut the babies' umbilical cords.

- snip -

When will Jolie and the babies leave the hospital? "I don't know," he said. "She will stay for a few days. You know, in Europe it isn't like in the United States, where the patients go home after three days. They will stay a bit longer until everything is okay."

He added: "The babies are fine. The babies are with the mother and father and they are fine."

More @ http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b146288_angelinas_doctor_calls_brad_my.html

-------------------------------

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. ha ha. I noticed that comment. In the US u get pushed out of hospital ASAP after major surgery too.

[Indigo Blue]

6. A little anecdote about my mom...

She hated hospitals; they made her feel like she was going stir crazy. Once, after a procedure, she wanted to go home, but the nurses said she couldn't leave until her physician signed her out. He wasn't due to come back until evening rounds. So... she got dressed, snuck out, walked over to his office & asked if he would kindly sign her out, as she was ready to go home. He did. ;)

She was pretty fortunate in never being rushed to leave too early, whatever the situation. Her doctor's would have found a reason to justify keeping her in if it was warranted; that is if they COULD keep her in!

I know most people aren't that fortunate, and, yes, they are sent home almost immediately after any and all medical procedures. It's a shame, and needs to change. Heck, the entire healthcare system needs to change. We desperately need universal healthcare. Yesterday.

[hedgehog]

2. "They will stay a bit longer until everything is okay."

Mother of six here, and I got to tell you that recovery rates after delivery are all over the map! I think now it's 2 days and out, not 3, and you practically have to be comatose to get an extended stay. I was lucky to have my kids at a hospital that provided a near-by place to stay for nursing mothers. Three of my kids had to stay to spend time under bilirubin lights, but I had to leave!

[stevedeshazer]

32. We got kicked out after a day and a half

They sent the bilirubin cage home with us.

Fortunately, he's 20 years old now and healthy, but thinking back on it, that was no way to treat a mom and a newborn with problems.

[ColbertWatcher]

3. No need to apologize/explain.

I can see where the "political connection" is and, like others, can choose to comment or not on this or any other thread.

In fact(iness), an other DUer posted a thread about how everything is political! (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3611989&mesg_id=3611989)

Interesting read.

Thank you for posting and giving us yet another chance to see how the rest of the world takes care of people.

BTW: I couldn't care less about celebrities and their offspring, but in this case (and with your point about healthcare) I don't mind it at all.

FYI: Ms. "Enjoying-European-socialist-healthcare" Jolie is rumored to be starring as "Dagny Taggart" in the movie version of Atlas Shrugged

[Maine-ah]

4. I was at the hospital for 4 days

with my c-section. Of course the first 24 hours were all labor. C-section was at 11:30 pm on a thursday night, and I was out that sunday. I wouldn't have minded an extra day.

[noamnety]

12. I had a c-section in a german hospital.

automatic 10 day stay.

I don't even know how I would have picked up my daughter to take care of her in 4 days, I felt, well, like someone had sliced through all the muscles in my stomach.

[Maine-ah]

50. I would have gone insane in 10 days.

how long ago did you have yours? You mentioned that it felt like someone sliced through all the muscles in your stomach... I have just about a 6" scar just above my pubic bone. So it wasn't too bad. Though for the next 6 weeks I moved very carefully.

[noamnety]

51. That was 21 years ago

I have the same scar, but inside, you know, there was a triangle flap of cuts I guess. If I remember right, I think it was a couple days til I could sit up on my own without help. I'm pretty sure it was a few days beyond that before I'd have been able to lean over and lift a baby. Maybe I'm just a big weenie, but I don't think I could have managed on my own after 3-4 days.

Here, there's the assumption I suppose that you have someone conveniently willing to drop everything and stay with you full time while you recover from surgery, but that's not always the case - we don't all have family nearby, and those who do sometimes have family that needs to work, or is deployed, or any number of things.


Also, I should add, in Germany you can get a Guinness in the hospital, which after giving birth seems as important to me as the 10 day stay.

[rainbow4321]

5. Given who they are, I have a hard time believing a US hospital

would kick them out after three days...the rest of us, yes. So his comment is not really applicable when talking about their stay/care here vs there.

[RayOfHope]

47. I think the doc is speaking in general terms, as in

'moms who deliver by c-sections are able to have a longer hospital stay here, as opposed to the US, where they get them out as fast as they can".

Or something like that.

[Bonobo]

7. 3 days!? Who gets 3 days in America? I think that is rare to get that much!

[CatWoman]

9. when I had my daughter, in 1976

that was the norm (3 days).

but then, in those days, you were asleep when you delivered.

[shraby]

15. I had mine in the early to mid 1960's and

we stayed for 3 days then too, only I was a wake for all of mine. The doc gave me spinals for pain.

[emilyg]

16. I stayed 3 days.

[MichiganVote]

17. 1984 I had 2 and a half days. 1987- 3 days cuz' my baby was a premie. Never happen now.

[electron_blue]

3-4 days is still routine in the US for a csection.

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. She could have stayed a month in a US hospital if she wanted to.

[Bonobo]

43. Huh? For a million bucks maybe...

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. As IF that would be an issue to someone like her.

[lostnfound]

46. I went home the same day..

but probably could have stayed one night if I'd wanted.

[Bonobo]

52. My wife's experiences were 24 max.

[WillowTree]

53. My niece had twins here last month.

Scheduled, uncomplicated C-section. Stayed in 4 days after delivery.

[seabeyond]

67. i was out next day with both babies. but truth... i wanted out too... and no reason to NOT

leave hospital

[ColbertWatcher]

8. Related question: are the kids French citizens?

Why did millionaire celebrities Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie decide to have their children in France, thus preventing them from having American citizenship?

(or are they American citizens?)

[Cleita]

29. If they were born there, I'm sure the French government recognizes them

as citizens as most countries do. Since the parents are Americans, the USA also recognizes them as citizens so these kids have dual citizenship. I do too for the same reason (though not French).

[ColbertWatcher]

30. So, the kids don't have to be born on American soil...

...to be considered American citizens?

[Cleita]

35. Not if their parents are Americans, especially native born Americans like Pitt and Jolie..

The rules change depending on the year you were born, but basically, unless you are an army brat born on a military base, you get an American passport, but when you are between the ages of thirteen and twenty one, you have to appear before the INS court to formerly take the oath of citizenship and denounce the country of your birth, then you are officially a citizen, for sure. In my case though, my country of birth doesn't recognize my American citizenship because I wasn't twenty one when I took the oath, so I have dual citizenship and can travel on a passport issued by either country. I believe most countries have similar rules.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. Only if the children end up living there

The US is fairly unusual in offering citizenship to anyone born there, just for the birth.

Entering into force on 1 September 1998, this Act lays down the principle that all children of foreign parents born in France automatically acquire French citizenship when they reach adulthood.

This principle is subject to two conditions, aimed at ensuring proper integration of the child: the child must reside in France when he reaches adulthood, and must also have spent at least 5 years in the country after the age of 11. In total, approximately 25,000 children fall into this category each year.

http://www.archives.premier-ministre.gouv.fr/jospin_version3/en/ie4/contenu/29905.htm

[Cleita]

10. After three days? That would be nice.

Most birth moms I have known have had to leave the next day after giving birth, if there were no complications.

[hedgehog]

13. AS I posted above, even worse than the three day limit is the practice

of discharging Mom even if the baby has to stay a few days longer. I was lucky that I was given a bed in the old nurse's quarters. Can you imagine trying to nurse an infant when you live an hour's drive from the hospital?

[PassingFair]

56. That happened to me.

My second child had water in her lungs at birth,
and they discharged me after one day and kept her
for "observation".

It was the most MISERABLE two days of my life.
I spent most of my time in the waiting area, and
they made me go home at night.

I cried all night, and they fed her supplements.

It was inhumane.

[Ewellian]

26. There's a federal mandate for insurance companies

since 1998. They have to cover 48 hours in the hospital after a normal delivery and 96 hours after a c-section.

[Cleita]

28. So does that mean, if there wasn't a mandate, the mothers would be

sent home a few hours after giving birth?

[hedgehog]

34. Hell, if there wasn't a mandate, they probably wouldn't get any medical care

at all by now. After all, child birth is a natural event, isn't it? Besides, it's only a "women's" issue like mammograms and birth control!

[Ewellian]

45. probably.

There wouldn't have been a need for the law if mothers weren't being pushed out as soon as possible.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. Hell, yes. In the early 1990s, I was hearing about new mothers

being sent home 12 hours after giving birth.

[Olney Blue]

11. I've been horrified at how fast the hospitals have sent elderly relatives

home after hip surgery.

[hedgehog]

14. Getting people out of hospitals isn't all bad - hospitals are full of germs!

The problem is that people are sent home with no medical support. Making use of visiting nurses and home aids would make a huge difference! Even delivering a few meals!

[Olney Blue]

18. I understand the nosocomial infection risk- but they do need more support

outside the hospital.

[hedgehog]

19. This is where we need to reform the entire health care system, not

just buy people insurance. Most people are happier in their own beds and could be there sooner with just a little support. If I may toss this in here, that's one reason I like Obama. He wants to look at the whole problem and come up with better solutions, not just throw more money at what we have now.

[Olney Blue]

21. Then we need to make sure he has a Democratic Congress and good support.

He also needs a visionary Sec of Health and Human Services.

[hedgehog]

23. We're going through this now in my town. New York wants to close the local

hospital, but the nearest remaining hospitals are in Oswego, ten miles down the road and in Syracuse, 30 miles down the road. I can understand why big central hospitals are good for some things, such as strokes or heart surgery, but I question whether an elderly person admitted for pneumonia wouldn't be better off in a local hospital. The problem is that the commission studied how many hospital beds are needed instead of looking at the bigger issue of total health care for the region. What happens when there is a bad flu season and there are no spare beds?

[Olney Blue]

24. Hospitals are in alot of trouble, as is the entire health care system.

Did you just see the Lifeline story on 60 minutes? Hundreds of folks stood in line to get free medical care because they are underinsured.

Our country is a disaster.

[hedgehog]

27. I went to make an appointment for my daughter to get a filling, and

the clerk informed me that having had her wisdom teeth out, she is at the limit on our insurance. She wanted to make sure I knew that so I wouldn't have an unexpected bill.

[Olney Blue]

31. Dental insurance is the worst of all! And dental/oral care is critical for

good health! :banghead:

[Crabby Appleton]

20. Note - She had a Caesarean.

[seabeyond]

68. theres the difference. i read epidural. didnt know caesarean. as i said above

i was out next day and glad i was. no reason to be in hospital. operation different

[EFerrari]

22. I got tossed after a tubal ligatation in two hours. Not a sip of water,

not an aspirin, not a handshake.

Too bad, too. The surgery failed, I got a massive infection AND a pregnancy and they got to settle my claim against their negligent, greedy selves.

[REP]

66. I had to stay the night, much against my will, after mine

I did get to bolt within a couple hours after my endometrial ablation (the inside of my uterus was burnt out with boiling saline) though thanks be.

When I was finally released after my tubal ligation (which had complications due to stuff being wrong with my insides), I went to the laundromat and did laundry.

[Contrary1]

25. My daughter delivered twin girls at 23 weeks...

They didn't make it, and my daughter was asked to leave the same day.

[auntAgonist]

33. I'm so sorry !!

How callous and unfeeling. I cannot imagine your family's pain.



aA
kesha

[Indigo Blue]

41. Contrary1, I am so sorry for your daughter's & your loss!

:hug:

And the action of the hospital? Cruel. Heartlessly cruel.

[China_cat]

36. 3 days? For a vaginal delivery?

You don't get that any more for a c-section in this country. A normal delivery gets you about 6 hours. If you're lucky.

[Indigo Blue]

40. She had a cesarean section

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b146266_angie_delivers_two_more_jolie-pitts_are.html

[China_cat]

54. Then she got a little extra time.

My niece had her baby in Nov. She and the baby were kicked out 6 hours after delivery. It would have been sooner but that would have made it before 6am.

The 'rules' for the amount of time mean nothing to the insurance companies. She says she feels like she could have had better care if she'd stayed at home.

[tammywammy]

48. My SIL had another baby by c-section at the end of May

She stayed for 4 days. And it was either 3 or 4 days with both her other boys each too.

[Prophet 451]

37. About ten days is the norm here

Here being England. My mother was in for a month after she had my youngest brother but there were complications there.

[MuseRider]

38. 1984 and 1985 when I had my two boys

I was sent home the next day. Who gets to stay 2 or 3 days? Maybe for a C section but probably not.

[asjr]

39. My daughter had her third

child on Feb. 15 of this year. They were going to kick her out a day and a half later but had to keep her because she had contracted pneumonia. A hell of a way to recuperate.

[The Doctor.]

44. So a Doctor, a Lawyer, and an HMO agent die in a car crash.

They go before St. Peter at the Gates of Heaven, and St. Peter asks each of them the same question;

"In order to pass through these gates, you must have performed good during your life. What have you each done that makes you worthy of entering the kingdom of Heavan?"

"I've saved many lives and improved the quality of life of many people." said the Doctor.

"Very well," Said St. Peter, "you may enter"

"I've put bad people behind bars and protected society from criminals." said the Lawyer.

"Very well, you may enter", said St. Peter.

"I provided medical coverage and peace of mind to many people." said the HMO agent.

"Very well, you may enter." said St. Peter, "but you have to check out after three days."

[Hekate]

59. Ha! nt

[crimsonblue]

49. the mother doesn't need to be in the hospital for more than 3 days

and cases where she does, she stays longer. Jolie is loaded, so there's no reason not to use US medical care; it's the best in the world (if you can afford it).

[LisaL]

57. What exactly makes it the best in the world?

Do tell.

[Contrary1]

58. Really.

I could tell you stories about what my mother went through that would shock some, probably not you though.

Here's just one:

When my mom fell ill, I did the required. I took her to her primary physician. He told me that I needed to take her to her heart doctor. Made an appointment, and waited. She felt worse by the day. The "expert" there told me he could find nothing wrong, then took me aside and said something to the effect that elderly people, "especially women", tended to whine about their aches and pains.

So, I took her home. Two days later, she said no one believed she was sick, and that I should just go home and let her die. I called her primary physician again, and asked him to give me some help, as I had never just let someone die before. He asked if I thought she was that ill, and I said yes. He told me to take her to the hospital. I did. The folks in the ER could find nothing wrong, and said they were sending her home. I told them that I had no intention of taking her home, that they were to find a bed for her, and run tests until they did find out.

So her heart specialists were called in. After two additional days, they could still find nothing. By that time, she was so obviously ill, that an internist was called in.

The internist ran one test, and then called the heart specialists and told them to get their act together. He had discovered an aortic aneurysm that was larger than her heart.

That night, my sister-in-law, who happened to manage the cafeteria of this hospital, was told to get refreshments ready for an emergency meeting. The head of the hospital's cardiac surgery was there, along with a hospital attorney, and every single one of my mother's doctors. I would like to think the subject at hand was the best way to save her life. Reality tells me they were all there to get their stories straight.

It took three days to get her stable enough for the surgery. She could have died at any moment, not to mention all the moments before, when she was dismissed as a whiny old woman.

She spent the rest of her life on dialysis. I have a couple equally pathetic stories I could relate about her kidney doctors too.

I apologize for the length of my post. I just get a bit riled up, when the subject of "best medical care" comes up.

Not the best.

[crimsonblue]

71. hmmm

1. training of doctors - best medical schools in the world
2. wide availability of advanced medical technologies (MRI, PET, CAT, Nuclear medicine, etc)
3. widespread vaccine implementation (USA eliminated polio, smallpox, whooping cough, rubella, measles, etc)
4. advanced treatment options

the downside is that access is limited by insurance availability. Do Americans have greater access than many europeans? No. But an American with adequate access receives the best care in the world.

[shanti]

60. my new grandson

just born on july 2 by cesarean :woohoo: his mom was in the hospital for yes - three days. i remember when it used to be 5 days for a c-section...

[LibDemAlways]

61. I had my daughter by c-section at 8:30 on

a Wednesday night. I got kicked out on Friday morning. I was still in terrible pain and couldn't walk. None of that mattered. The insurance co. dictated that my hospital stay was over.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. I posted this three years ago, about an American couple having a baby in Norway

Unfortunately, the magazine it appeared in has gone out of business, so the link at the bottom is dead, but you can get the gist from the excerpt I posted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x43244

As I recall, there was no time limit about how long the new mothers could stay in the hospital, but the nurses began dropping hints after a few days if they thought all was well.

[Sanctified]

64. Who wants to spend 3+ days in a hospital?

After both of my children were born my wife could not wait to get home, the hospital food sucked, the bed was uncomfortable and there was nothing to do in the hospital.

[Skittles]

65. read two posts before yours, asshat n/t

[noamnety]

70. People who can't care for themselves yet

let alone care for a newborn, and don't have free medical assistants waiting around to serve them in their homes.