Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Today's crunch feels like '70s

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:17 PM
Original message
Today's crunch feels like '70s
High oil prices, a sluggish economy, persistent inflation, an unpopular president and the Eagles are out on tour.

Sounds like a rerun of the 1970s.

But it is also a snapshot from the summer of 2008 —- even if it does conjure images from the past.

"The similarities are there," said economist Gerald Lynch of Purdue University. "That was a miserable time for the economy. And the clothes were ugly, too."

Wide ties may not be making a comeback, but hints of the era's economics are in the air.

One of the stars of that original '70s show was stagflation, a term invented to describe a mix of rapid inflation and near-stagnant growth. The word has re-entered the economic vocabulary of late.

"As far as I can see, the wheels have fallen off the wagon," said Peter Miralles, president of Atlanta Wealth Consultants. "This is as close to the '70s as we have seen in the past couple of decades."

First, the sluggishness: Gross domestic product the past two quarters has expanded by less than 1 percent. The economy shed 438,000 jobs in the first six months of the year, while the official unemployment rate has climbed to 5.5 percent.

Meanwhile, the official measure of inflation has been running slightly higher than 4 percent per year —- while energy prices have more than doubled.

Yet comparing the current moment to the 1970s can offer some reassurance: Today's numbers pale beside the Hotel California Era.

In 1975, unemployment peaked at 9 percent, fell for a while and then climbed to 7.8 percent in 1980. Inflation hit double digits in 1974 and 1975, slipped back and then roared up, cresting at more than 13 percent in 1979 and 14 percent in 1980. It was a time, too, when the nightly news rattled the American psyche.

The first half of the decade saw the revolution-promoting Weathermen, Watergate, the bitter, bloody end to the Vietnam War and the Arab oil embargo. The second half of the '70s brought the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the Iranian Revolution.

"There was a kind of extremism in the air," said Herb London, president of the Hudson Institute, a conservative, Washington-based think tank. "Conditions now are also kind of frightening. But the situation is not as extreme."

Still, today's list of potential villains sounds like a cast from the past.

The most obvious repeat offender is oil. Oil prices quadrupled in the mid-1970s, then soared again after the Iranian Revolution in 1979.

-snip-

GASOLINE

Now: Gas prices have doubled in a little more than three years. They are up a little more than one-third in the past year. Gas is costly but plentiful.

Then: Gas prices tripled during the decade, rising almost 50 percent from 1973 to 1975, and by 80 percent in 1979 and 1980. Shortages forced restrictions on sales.

PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL

Now: 28 percent

Then: 29 percent

IRAN

Now: Tension between the United States and Iran over nuclear programs and U.S. involvement in Iraq has led to higher oil prices.

Then: Iranian Revolution in 1979 overthrew a U.S. ally, led to a long hostage crisis and sent oil prices skyrocketing.

UNEMPLOYMENT

Now: In the past year and a half, official unemployment has increased 25 percent. It remains historically modest: 5.5 percent.

Then: After the Arab oil embargo, unemployment rose by more than 80 percent.

INFLATION

Now: Consumer prices are up 4.1 percent in the past year, the government says, but critics say the data understates reality.

Then: Consumer costs were up an average of 8.12 percent a year through the decade, peaking at 13.3 percent in 1979.

PRODUCTIVITY GROWTH

Now: 2.58, average, 2000-07

Then: 1.73 percent, average 1971-80

Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Energy Information Administration, Gallup Poll, PollingReport.com.

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/business/stories/2008/07/13/seventies.html?referrer=search_buy&imw=Y
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yup. They had another lost war to pay for then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Seems like I've been hearing '70's music everywhere I go.
So much so it put me in the mood to listen to the '70's channel on Sirius.

I have to say it really does feel like 1979 or so, except we had a much better president back then that we didn't listen to.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't remember home foreclosures and bank failures in the 70's.
This next week may tell us if things are looking more like the 1930's.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. And that is why whoever wins the White House
Is going to be a one term president. Carter inherited an economy that was just coming out of a recession and 4 years later was shown the door. The guy in office gets the praise for good times and all the blame when thing go bad, and things are going to go very bad before they get better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Americans have short memories.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. very short memories
sad. very sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yea but in the 70's I at least had Deep Purple to go see occasionally
Changes everything.

Don
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. "everything old is new again"!!!
:hi:

and I had the Isley Brothers, Rick James and Parliament :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Fight The Power
I owned (still do) just as many Isley Brothers albums as Deep Purple.

:hi:

Don
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
XRubicon Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. But the politburo... I mean administration says
there is no recession.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. 70's jobs from north were being shipped south to get away from unions
so you could move there or not - now they are all off shore so there is no where to go
Military jobs or contractors dependent on war machine is where the jobs and benefits are
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. They've cooked the book on inflation
and have been doing so for a while to downplay the upward wage pressure from commodity inflation. It is a bit of an overstatement to say that they took everything you actually need to buy, and the price of which far exceeds the official inflation rate, out of the CPI shopping basket and substituted in stuff that you don't need to buy but that is cheap and getting cheaper. Too bad you can't eat dvds.



http://www.shadowstats.com/

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Here it is from shadowstats.com using the real 1980 measurement for inflation.
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 05:18 PM by roamer65
The same measurement used during the stagflation days of the 1970's. Notice the ever increasing divergence start when Raygun's people began to doctor the numbers.




John Williams is great economist. Glad to see you follow his reports as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thing's are worse now.
It seems like everyone had health coverage.

I was making $11.75 an hour with only a HS diploma doing what undocumented workers now do for $5.00 an hour.

We had ten working, unadulterated amendments to the constitution.

Things were made in America, unions were strong, there were no Wal Marts.

We had a president who wanted for us to become energy independent using renewable resources.

Interest rates were high, but nobody was giving away sub-prime loans, and we could write off interest on our taxes.

Media outlets were less concentrated and more independent.

There was no Fox news!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. There were plenty of Wal-Marts in 1979
The company started as a mom-and-pop operation in 1962. However, by the mid-1970s Wal-Mart commercials in Arkansas were showing how many Wal-Mart stores there were-- I remember one announcing that there were over 600 stores. But in those days, they were probably still mostly concentrated in the "4-state area" of Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. mmmmmmmmcrunch
My favorite Crunch in the 70's...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
XRubicon Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Wacky Packs
With stale gum.... fond memories.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. My buddies and I collected those
Our two main consumer concerns in 1975 were buying packs of Wacky Packages, and collecting soda bottle caps to get free admission to the Saturday matinees at the theater. Between those cards and Mad Magazine, my skeptical/cynical outlook was molded early. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I'm amazed the 70's survived you
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 06:14 PM by CatWoman
:)

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. hahahaha!
Well, I spent nearly a third of them living abroad, so I at least spread the love around. :D :loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hey, "Cat" ...if you visited the "Astrology Forums" ..you'd understand
about what's going down here...... Really..

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. you mean here on DU?
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. No...the offshoots. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Check out this article:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lynettebro440 Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. I got married in 1979
was all of 20 years old. We could only buy our gas on Thursdays due to our license plates. We bought our first home at 10.34% and thought we died and went to heaven, interest rates were 17% at the time. It was bad but this feels so much worse.

The environment wasn't as big of a factor, and like some one said above, the constitution was still active. I never thought we could possibly move back-wards this far, but we did go to war again and that pretty much does this every time. And yes, my generation has a very short memory. We should have protested this war way more then we did. I'm disappointed in us to tell you the truth and now we are paying for it again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. The Eagles are on tour?
...you've got to be kidding me...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Regrettably, it's true.
Long past time to give up.

Even the Stones and Aerosmith must think this is some kind of joke.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yep, we are getting there ...
No real gas shortages yet, the anti-war movement is anemic because no draft, but other things are much worse, we were not bankrupt back then, there were not multiple popping bubbles back then, the rest of the World still thought we could not be ignored however stupid our government was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oh gawd ... Does that mean the Reagan Zombie is coming soon?
:scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm not sure which is worse...
High oil prices, the economy, or the Eagles on tour.

Okay, it's the Eagles. For the life of me, I can't see why people listen to the same crap over and over for more than 30 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Hey, Take It Easy
Take it eeeeasy
Don't let the sound of your own wheels make you craaaaazy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. As a lifelong Oregonian, I see there's plenty of room at the Hotel California
I'm just sayin'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. OMG! So many of us here on DU are candidates for that Hotel...
:scared: It becomes more in my thoughts year after year after year as I've been on DU since '01 and on Salon before that. UGH!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Yep, and I'm a former Californian and a DU addict since '01.
I can check out any time I want, but I can never leave either one. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. This is 10 times worse than the 70s....
...we're talking 30s here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Except the economy isn't at full employment so the supply shocks
will affect the aggregate supply less than in the 1970s. Which means this malaise could go on for a long time without it becoming a serious full economy recession. So only some of Americans will be in recession. The wealthy may not be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. People Had Fun in the 70s Because Most People Were High
Why do you think that clothes looked they way they did. No sober person would design clothes like that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
35. much, much worse than the 70's
that was before America started pimping off jobs to the lowest bidders overseas
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. or the fleecing of America and Americans.
when are we going to kick them to the curb.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC