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Frank Rich: "Top Bush Hands Starting to Get Sweaty About Where They Left Their Fingerprints."

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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:25 PM
Original message
Frank Rich: "Top Bush Hands Starting to Get Sweaty About Where They Left Their Fingerprints."
Some of “The Dark Side” seems right out of “The Final Days,” minus Nixon’s operatic boozing and weeping. We learn, for instance, that in 2004 two conservative Republican Justice Department officials had become “so paranoid” that “they actually thought they might be in physical danger.” The fear of being wiretapped by their own peers drove them to speak in code.

The men were John Ashcroft’s deputy attorney general, James Comey, and an assistant attorney general, Jack Goldsmith. Their sin was to challenge the White House’s don, Dick Cheney, and his consigliere, his chief of staff David Addington, when they circumvented the Geneva Conventions to make torture the covert law of the land. Mr. Comey and Mr. Goldsmith failed to stop the “torture memos” and are long gone from the White House. But Vice President Cheney and Mr. Addington remain enabled by a president, attorney general (Michael Mukasey) and C.I.A. director (Michael Hayden) who won’t shut the door firmly on torture even now.

Nixon parallels take us only so far, however. “The Dark Side” is scarier than “The Final Days” because these final days aren’t over yet and because the stakes are much higher. Watergate was all about a paranoid president’s narcissistic determination to cling to power at any cost. In Ms. Mayer’s portrayal of the Bush White House, the president is a secondary, even passive, figure, and the motives invoked by Mr. Cheney to restore Nixon-style executive powers are theoretically selfless. Possessed by the ticking-bomb scenarios of television’s “24,” all they want to do is protect America from further terrorist strikes.

SNIP

Top Bush hands are starting to get sweaty about where they left their fingerprints. Scapegoating the rotten apples at the bottom of the military’s barrel may not be a slam-dunk escape route from accountability anymore.

SNIP

So hot is the speculation that war-crimes trials will eventually follow in foreign or international courts that Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell’s former chief of staff, has publicly advised Mr. Feith, Mr. Addington and Alberto Gonzales, among others, to “never travel outside the U.S., except perhaps to Saudi Arabia and Israel.” But while we wait for the wheels of justice to grind slowly, there are immediate fears to tend. Ms. Mayer’s book helps cement the case that America’s use of torture has betrayed not just American values but our national security, right to the present day.

In her telling, a major incentive for Mr. Cheney’s descent into the dark side was to cover up for the Bush White House’s failure to heed the Qaeda threat in 2001. Jack Cloonan, a special agent for the F.B.I.’s Osama bin Laden unit until 2002, told Ms. Mayer that Sept. 11 was “all preventable.” By March 2000, according to the C.I.A.’s inspector general, “50 or 60 individuals” in the agency knew that two Al Qaeda suspects — soon to be hijackers — were in America. But there was no urgency at the top. Thomas Pickard, the acting F.B.I. director that summer, told Ms. Mayer that when he expressed his fears about the Qaeda threat to Mr. Ashcroft, the attorney general snapped, “I don’t want to hear about that anymore!”

SNIP

That’s why the Bush White House’s corruption in the end surpasses Nixon’s. We can no longer take cold comfort in the Watergate maxim that the cover-up was worse than the crime. This time the crime is worse than the cover-up, and the punishment could rain down on us all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/opinion/13rich.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. That should get a big reaction tomorrow.
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 09:33 PM by JohnnyLib2
Including the regular scoffing and discounting from the White House.

Turn up the heat!

K & R
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. This part makes me happy.
"Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell’s former chief of staff, has publicly advised Mr. Feith, Mr. Addington and Alberto Gonzales, among others, to “never travel outside the U.S., except perhaps to Saudi Arabia and Israel.”"

The criminals, thugs and general fuck-ups will never be able to walk the Earth in peace without fear of the justice striking at any time.

They themselves must know what they deserve. Let us hope they find it or it finds them.

In 6 months, I will be freer than these criminals. Ho ho ho.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. In six months, these "criminals" will have a full pardon
though they may not venture abroad and might stay clear of dark limousines and SUVs.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Too bad a "pardon" won't reach outside U.S. borders. nt
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
103. Bush has already passed a bill that excludes him and anyone in his administartion from being
prosecuted for any war crimes etc. Bush is bullet-proofed
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #103
109. Which in itself does not provide international immunity...
It would be wrong to consider the prospect of legal jeopardy unlikely. I remember sitting in the House of Lords during the landmark Pinochet case, back in 1999—in which a prosecutor was seeking the extradition to Spain of the former Chilean head of state for torture and other international crimes—and being told by one of his key advisers that they had never expected the torture convention to lead to the former president of Chile’s loss of legal immunity. In my efforts to get to the heart of this story, and its possible consequences, I visited a judge and a prosecutor in a major European city, and guided them through all the materials pertaining to the Guantánamo case. The judge and prosecutor were particularly struck by the immunity from prosecution provided by the Military Commissions Act. “That is very stupid,” said the prosecutor, explaining that it would make it much easier for investigators outside the United States to argue that possible war crimes would never be addressed by the justice system in the home country—one of the trip wires enabling foreign courts to intervene. For some of those involved in the Guantánamo decisions, prudence may well dictate a more cautious approach to international travel. And for some the future may hold a tap on the shoulder.

“It’s a matter of time,” the judge observed. “These things take time.” As I gathered my papers, he looked up and said, “And then something unexpected happens, when one of these lawyers travels to the wrong place.”


From Phippe Sands article in Vanity Fair, "The Green Light." http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/guantanamo200805?currentPage=8
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #109
120. I agree - doubt if they would have international immunity -
furthermore, it's not like the US is the same power house that it was after WWII.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. If impeachment proceeding have begun
there is no pardon powers for the monkey (IIRC) Nancy is allowing the sounds of impeachment in the judiciary
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Why would that stop him?
If he were removed, sure. But why would his impeachment stop him from pardoning anyone? He'd still have presidential powers up until he was removed.
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I'm not sure, but I believe impeachment proceedings
automatically suspend his power to pardon. I read that somewhere...
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Not that I know of.
"The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present.

Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law. "



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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
65. But ...but....but...
Impeachment would be presided over by John Roberts, he who orchestrated so much of the Florida 2000 debacle (for which he was so very handsomely rewarded). Unless Roberts can be compelled to recuse himself, would the process be anything but theater? Just asking.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #65
98. Well, not sure why you posted under my post, but
the Chief Justice presides, but doesn't decide anything, so it wouldn't really matter what he wanted. I suppose he could claim some power of interpretation over some ruling, but only the senate impeaches, and they set the rules for impeachment, and the Chief Justice presides. Maybe he could claim that a decision was unConstitutional, and then we would have a genuine Constitutional crisis, since his role is weakly defined.

But I wasn't calling for impeachment, I was answering a post about the president not being able to pardon while he was impeached.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. Thanks for your response
even though my comment was clearly posted to the wrong place.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. US Constitution, Article 2, Section 2
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. That means he can't pardon an impeachment, not that he can't pardon while impeached.
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emanymton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Vague. Can Be Exploited.
.

"...Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

Can be read that once the president is under impeachment, then he may not give pardons! With this bunch of yahoos in the White House, (remember the VP is _not_ a part of the Executive Branch), the Constitution is a quaint document.

This vagueness can be used to challenge any pardon shrub gives himself and others.
.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #36
74. It's not vague. "For offenses, except impeachment..." How is that vague?
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emanymton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #74
88. Whose Impeachment
.

"... except impeachment." Whose impeachment?

Keep in mind the assault on the Constitution by these criminals who have gamed every angle would use this vagueness to their advantage. It does not say impeachment of whom. So does it not follow that the president, once under bill of impeachment, is not allowed to give pardons??

.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #88
97. First, that "vagueness," if it existed, would work against Bush, not for him.
So that's an angle they'd have no reason to use.

Second, it's pretty clear. I don't understand where you see vaguery. The president can pardon for offenses against the government, except in cases of impeachment. He can't pardon anyone the senate impeaches. How does that in any way imply that he can't pardon anyone if he's under impeachment? There's no vaguery to exploit there.

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emanymton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #97
112. Orwell's Double Speak Make This All Clear
.

This Supreme Court has clearly made the case that the Constitution has no meaning. So if one takes the line,
"...he (the president) shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." and read the line as the administration does, 'Except in cases of impeachment the president shall have power of pardons.' This allows the people to challenge any pardon shrub gives _after_ he is under a bill of impeachment.

.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #97
118. Waittaminnit. Impeachment isn't conviction. I think that means
the President can't pardon while being impeached. Otherwise it would specify impeachment & conviction.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #118
127. Sigh.
The act of impeaching an official in America occurs in the house, and then the impeachment is tried in the senate. "Cases of impeachment" refers to that process.

"Note: In England, it is the privilege or right of the House of Commons to impeach, and the right of the House of Lords to try and determine impeachments. In the United States, it is the right of the House of Representatives to impeach, and of the Senate to try and determine impeachments."

And from the Constitution:
The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments.

Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law.


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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
86. The definition of is is..........
"Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment"

If "an organized militia" encompasses any dillweed with a gun, then certainly the above quote can be stretched into use AGAINST Chimpy and Darth.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Pakistan could pardon Bin Ladden. We'd still kill him. The world won't pardon Cheney
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. You saw Addington. Despicable human being.Hides among his peers
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #86
105. "Offenses against the United States" -- can't pardon from the World Court
adn I know we "quit" but lol so did Charles Taylor, Pol Pot & who knows who else.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
80. Link please.
I don't think you are correct.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #80
125. Link to the US Constitution?
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
91. I think his pardon powers are limited only by those being impeached...
...he might be able to pardon them from criminal indictment, but could not stop impeachment and removal from office.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. How can they be pardoned when they haven't been charged?
That will come under the next administration.

Obama better win.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Wasn't Nixon?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. (Hmph) Yeah ... stay in the U.S. where the people are too cowardly or criminal to do anything.
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 09:54 PM by TahitiNut
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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floridablue Donating Member (996 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. Perhaps the Bushies will sell them a home lot
down in Latin America on their aquafer. That should be a safe place for them to go.

Imagine, Bushie officials in exile. love it.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. paraguay
sorry but paraguay now has extradition laws. the conservative party in paraguay was voted out after 60 years of power. the new more liberal party has enacted extradition laws.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #43
53. That is the best news i have heard all week.
Now, if we can keep them from using electronic voting, we are set.

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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #35
99. Yeah, I thought about that, too. The hiding place of past war criminals.
I'd feel sorry for Paraguay. Innocent country who doesn't need their air polluted like that.
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NancyG Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
82. Paraguay, anyone?
Did I read that Rove went there on this trip? Buying land next to the other felons?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
94. Comforting, yes, and it's
not over yet.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
104. UAE. No extradition treaty. Rich man's paradise. Halliburton moved their top 2 execs there.
truefact!

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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
122. Poetic Justice
It just broke my heart after the Supreme Court stole the 2000 election - I knew through Bush's campaign how the degree to which he was manufactured was only equal to his lack of qualifications. I just had this sort of intuition that something bad would happen - massive protests in the streets, etc. I never dreamed that something as earth shattering as this - so many, many lives lost and ruined, the economy in shambles, and now real prospects for international crimes against humanity... A permanent smirch on our country that can only be addressed if these thugs are tried as criminals.....Never was a trial for war crimes more deserved.

These SOB's are so self-righteous...:grr:


I like the idea of the Young Turk today - I think there should be a massive get out of town party in Washington DC and celebrations elsewhere across the nation when this team of criminals leave office and hopefully go to a better place - to the international criminal court! :toast: :bounce:
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Worse Than Watergate by John Dean! We'll see what the future
brings as far as penalties!
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. The New York Times. That should give the story exposure..
The difference between Nixon and Bush is that through all the drunken paranoid delusional Gotterdammerung Nixon was still capable of the bare basics of running the government, twisted though the results were. Bush's drunken paranoid delusions are mixed into a being who has failed at everything he has ever done in his life, and yet still believes that he is the only capable and competent person on the planet. Mix that with a little cocaine and a creepy vampire of a vice president operating with no coscience in the shadows, and you've got a scary situation. I'm holding my breath until January and jumping every time something goes "BREAKING NEWS" bump in the night.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Will they also be blamed for the next terra attack?
They seem to carry one out someplace on a daily basis.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. Cheney descended into the dark side to cover up Bush failure to heed bin Laden threat in 2001.
Wow! In The New York Times, no less.

From OP:

In her telling, a major incentive for Mr. Cheney’s descent into the dark side was to cover up for the Bush White House’s failure to heed the Qaeda threat in 2001. Jack Cloonan, a special agent for the F.B.I.’s Osama bin Laden unit until 2002, told Ms. Mayer that Sept. 11 was “all preventable.” By March 2000, according to the C.I.A.’s inspector general, “50 or 60 individuals” in the agency knew that two Al Qaeda suspects — soon to be hijackers — were in America. But there was no urgency at the top. Thomas Pickard, the acting F.B.I. director that summer, told Ms. Mayer that when he expressed his fears about the Qaeda threat to Mr. Ashcroft, the attorney general snapped, “I don’t want to hear about that anymore!”

These turds are so busted.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I was a charter member of the Grassy Knoll Society - LIHOP cohort - before it was fashionable.
IOW ... it was obvious.

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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
84. Like I always say, if 9/11 wasn't LIHOP, then...
...IHOP doesn't sell pancakes!!!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #84
101. I like that. Thanks!
:thumbsup:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
123. Yep. Always thought that the MIHOPers should pay more attention to the KISS principle
No need to know anything whatsoever about the operational details of "it" in order for them to benefit from a serious attack.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I disagree with this analysis
I think the planning was in the works from the moment they stole the US and WH. I think they manufactured 9/11 for their own ends. I read that the war was started because the monkey wanted a war. I think that is closer to the truth and Dick Cheney is just evil and he wanted a war for more money for oil. Somehow he is also connected to the A Q Khan and the sale of nuclear bombs
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. One would think Rich would be more curious
We were told the system was blinking red! They weren't interested? What does that mean? Why did FBI investigations keep getting obstructed? Who ordered CIA to withhold intel from the FBI (specifically the Cole investigators)? What the hell was Rice doing in relation to all these urgent warnings?
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. yes, the lack of curiosity on all their parts
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 10:47 PM by BareNakedLiberal
is very curious! It's like they are in a vacuum and the real world of facts and conclusions don't get their attention. The fluff in the air is all they see.

edited for curious spelling
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
63. Lack of curiosity? That passive?
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 10:57 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #63
67. as opposed to purposefully looking
the other way? I have thought of that too.

My mother used to tell me never to put off on evil what could be attributed to stupidity, so I was trying to be charitable...another Democratic failing, I fear.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #67
78. One poster on here used to put up a picture of Republican woman, I think, a
female talking-head, with her fingers pressed hard in her ears, and trying to drown out what her interlocutor was saying to her, as well, with her own babble.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. They are blatant
in their disregard.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
79. Fundies. The US can do no wrong in their minds, so who would attack it
and why would Gaw-dah let it happen?
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
44. What the hell was Rice doing in relation to all these urgent warnings?
Doing what she usually does, being a sycophant and prevaricating dissembler.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
121. What was Rice doing?
She was shopping for shoes and jewelry:banghead: :spank: :spank:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
124. In July 2001, Rice blew off Tenet and CIA briefers.
She has a lot of explaining to do.



Rice More Sordid Than Foley

by Robert Scheer
Published on Wednesday, October 4, 2006 by Truthdig.com

They are such liars. And no, I am not speaking only of the dissembling GOP House leaders led by Speaker Dennis Hastert who, out of naked political calculation, covered up for one of their own in the sordid teen stalking case of Rep. Mark Foley.

Call me old school, but I am still more concerned with the Republicans molesting Lady Liberty while pretending to be guarding the nation’s security, an assignment which they have totally botched. The news about the Foley coverup, while important as yet another example of extreme hypocrisy on the part of the Republican virtues police, should not be allowed to obscure the latest evidence of administration deceit as to its egregious ineptness in protecting the nation.

On Monday, a State Department spokesman conceded that then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice had indeed been briefed in July 2001 by George Tenet, then-director of the CIA, about the alarming potential for an Al Qaeda attack, as Bob Woodward has reported in his aptly named new book, “State of Denial.”

“I don’t remember a so-called emergency meeting,” Rice had said only hours earlier, apparently still suffering from some sort of post-9/11 amnesia that seemed to afflict her during her forced testimony to the 9/11 Commission. The omission of this meeting from the final commission report is another example of how the Bush administration undermined the bipartisan investigation that the president had tried to prevent. Surely lying under oath in what was arguably the most important official investigation in the nation’s history should be treated more seriously than the evasiveness in the Paula Jones case that got President Bill Clinton impeached. Nor is it just Rice who should be challenged, for Tenet seems to have provided Woodward with details concerning the administration’s indifference to the terrorist threat that he did not share with the 9/11 Commission.

SNIP…

Such weaseling would be funny if the topic were not so serious. But there is no way Rice can squirm out of this one, despite her impressive track record of calculated distortion on everything from Iraq’s nonexistent WMDs to the trumped-up ties between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Can there be any better case for turning over control of at least one branch of Congress to the opposition party so that we might finally have hearings to learn the truth of this matter, which is far more important, and sordid, than the Foley affair?

SOURCE:

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1004-33.htm



While his boss said that he wrote "too many negative articles about (resident) Bush, the fact is Robert Scheer lost his job as a columnist at the Los Angeles Times for telling the Truth.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
61. Rich Is an Opinionator, Not an Investigative Journalist
We don't have any home-grown investigative journalists anymore--we have to outsource to Euope and Asia.

Considering the lengths to which the Bushbots will go, that's probably inevitable. The US isn't a safe country for truth-seekers any more.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #61
75. Well, Sy Hersch, Robert Parry
Joe Coneson and a few others might feel slighted by that, but they are few and far between.
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Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
57. I agree with you BNL...
And I think the things he (Cheney) has done go verry verry deep...
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
62. Yeah !!! I'm with the Naked guy above. He's right ...
( grab a bush or something to cover up, can't you?
Sheesh...we're in public, there are children , for god's sakes.)
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #62
71. I don't want to insult you
but you sound like a republican. I would never cover my liberality with a bush, or shrub (eww the visual made me slightly ill)
:rofl:
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #71
113. Pun intended......lol.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
68. I suspect that all those statements are true, too.
I'm glad to see the NYT article but, like you, I disagree that all this is a result of the White House covering up for incompetence. It's clear now that they allowed 9/11 to happen in order to scare Congress and enough of the public into allowing everything else.

The White House began the illegal wiretaps in February 2001 - immediately after taking office and six months before 9/11. That tells us everything we need to know.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
106. Smirk and Sneer are connected to AQ Khan and Pakistani H-Bomb through BCCI
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 02:57 PM by Octafish
As "president 41," Poppy protected the petrodollar-financed War Inc slush fund known as BCCI. The bank helped fund AQ Khan and the "Islamic Bomb."

Know your BFEE: Cheney & Halliburton Sold Iran Nuke Technology

It's just what Cheney wanted. His ilk wants World War IV or whatever Chimpageddon would reduce the world's population to the point where there'd be enough for Bush and Moon and Cheney to maintain their porculent opulent lifestyle.

Agree that the analysis is incomplete. The thing they learned in Iran-Contra was to let Corporate McPravda focus on the “diversion” while ignoring the “trading with the enemy” angle.

With 911, they needed to get people to “move on” any way possible, as quickly as possible. By making torture the focus, the presstitutes quickly moved America’s focus from “Why were the warnings ignored?” to “have you seen the soldier girl holding the naked guy’s leash.”
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #106
131. thank you
great summation of that particular crime
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
54. The question remains-why did * fail to act when there were warnings from so many
different sources.

Also it fails to address why the surveillance started BEFORE 9/11. Was the administration so preoccupied to digging dirt on opponents (think J Edgar Hoover) that they ignored national security issues or were they waiting the "new Pearl Harbor" event that would lead them to their ill fated PNAC plan to war?
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #54
87. because they were busy
making it happen and were trying to stifle those damn pesky reports!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #54
108. They needed a pretext for war with Iraq. September 11 made USA mad at 'Arabs.'
The target was Iraq all along. The first treasury secretary said war on Iraq was on the agenda at the first meeting of the National Security Council.

Months before 9-11, Bush attended his first G-8 summit in Genoa. There he learned firsthand about what a threat bin Laden was from the air. Bush was so scared of falling airplanes, he slept offshore aboard a U.S. warship.



Plot to assassinate Bush - reports

Bin Laden: Believed to have a network of guerrillas


July 9, 2001 Posted: 9:23 AM EDT (1323 GMT)

MOSCOW, Russia -- Osama bin Laden has threatened to assassinate U.S. President George W. Bush at a G8 meeting in Italy, the head of Russia's Federal Bodyguard Service has said, according to reports.

The Associated Press said Yevgeny Murov was quoted by Itar-Tass news agency as saying: "Bin Laden is threatening the American president, but we know what international terrorism is today and therefore all the bodyguard units concerned are preparing for this.

"We view the threats as totally serious, but hope that with joint efforts we can solve all the problems."

The Group of Eight summit is meeting between July 20-22 in Genoa, Italy. Leaders from Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United States are expected to attend the summit.

Murov -- Russian President Vladimir Putin's chief bodyguard -- did not elaborate on the threats. He said agents from Russia's Federal Bodyguard Service have travelled to Genoa to coordinate with their counterparts from the other nations taking part in the summit to investigate the threats.

CONTINUED...

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/06/20/russia.binladen/



Gee.

Did you know he was warned about Osama bin Laden months before 9-11? Before the CIA briefed him at Crawford during his first month-long vacation in August 2001, he had been “forced” to sleep offshore during the G-8 summit in Genoa. The reason: bin Laden threatened to crash the party with a jet plane. This shows, at BEST, Bush's incompetence enabled 9-11. That makes him criminally derelict in his duty as commander-in-chief, an impeachable offense. What’s more likely, based on the results of his leadership in the three years since, Bush just decided to let 9-11 happen as a reason for building up the world’s first sole-superpower police state.

There is no doubt the former counter-terrorism czar Richard Clarke, National Security Advisor Sandy Berger and President Clinton personally warned the incoming administration of the dangers posed by bin Laden and Al Quaeda.

Later that summer, DCI George Tenet's hair was afire with all the warnings he was getting. How come he didn't get the info about the flight schools from CIA? Perhaps he'duh warned the airlines or even the flying public?

It's most LIKELY Bush's incompetence was the result of willfull ignorance. That requires no stretch of the imagination. Consider the following evidence, from JUNE-JULY 2001:



Plot to assassinate Bush - reports

Bin Laden: Believed to have a network of guerrillas


July 9, 2001 Posted: 9:23 AM EDT (1323 GMT)

MOSCOW, Russia -- Osama bin Laden has threatened to assassinate U.S. President George W. Bush at a G8 meeting in Italy, the head of Russia's Federal Bodyguard Service has said, according to reports.

The Associated Press said Yevgeny Murov was quoted by Itar-Tass news agency as saying: "Bin Laden is threatening the American president, but we know what international terrorism is today and therefore all the bodyguard units concerned are preparing for this.

"We view the threats as totally serious, but hope that with joint efforts we can solve all the problems."

The Group of Eight summit is meeting between July 20-22 in Genoa, Italy. Leaders from Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United States are expected to attend the summit.

Murov -- Russian President Vladimir Putin's chief bodyguard -- did not elaborate on the threats. He said agents from Russia's Federal Bodyguard Service have travelled to Genoa to coordinate with their counterparts from the other nations taking part in the summit to investigate the threats.

CONTINUED...

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/06/20/russia.binladen/



Hope he didn't get too scared, the little tyrant.



Missiles to protect summit leaders

Special report: globalisation


Rory Carroll in Rome
Wednesday July 11, 2001
The Guardian

Italy has installed a missile defence system at Genoa's airport to deter airborne attacks during next week's G8 summit, fuelling hysteria about looming violence.

A land-based battery of rockets with a range of nine miles and an altitude of 5,000 feet has been positioned in the latest security measure against perceived threats from terrorists and protesters.

Unidentified planes, helicopters and balloons risk being shot down should they drift too close to the heads of state from the group of seven leading industrialised nations and Russia.

Colonel Alberto Battaglini, of the ministry of defence, said the precaution was not exces sive. "The measure, which was planned by the previous government, may seem open to criticism, but in reality it is merely to act as a deterrent against any aerial incursion during the summit.

"They are little missiles ... which only have a deterrent function to discourage any aerial-led attack and they do not present any danger to the residents of the city," he said.

CONTINUED...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/globalisation/story/0,7369,519925,00.html



A psychotic coward. Then another bedwetting bastard is AG John Ashcan, who stopped flying commercial in July 2001:



Ashcroft Flying High

WASHINGTON, July 26, 2001

CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart reports on Aschcroft's travel arrangements.

"There was a threat assessment and there are guidelines. He is acting under the guidelines." -- FBI spokesman

(CBS) Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term.

"There was a threat assessment and there are guidelines. He is acting under the guidelines," an FBI spokesman said. Neither the FBI nor the Justice Department, however, would identify what the threat was, when it was detected or who made it.

A senior official at the CIA said he was unaware of specific threats against any Cabinet member, and Ashcroft himself, in a speech in California, seemed unsure of the nature of the threat.

CONTINUED...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/main303601.shtml



A fine official upholding the law. He followed orders and didn't warn anybody else.

Then there’s the guy who wrote the unofficial biography of Smirko McCokespoon, Jim Hatfield. He thought there shouldn’t be a brouhaha at the G-8 summit. He thought Smriko was just being his usual cowardly ass self.



Why would Osama bin Laden want to kill Dubya, his former business partner?

By James Hatfield


Editor's note: In light of last week's horrific events and the Bush administration's reaction to them, we are reprising the following from the last column Jim Hatfield wrote for Online Journal prior to his tragic death on July 18:

July 3, 2001—There may be fireworks in Genoa, Italy, this month, too.

A plot by Saudi master terrorist, Osama bin Laden, to assassinate Dubya during the July 20 economic summit of world leaders, was uncovered after dozens of suspected Islamic militants linked to bin Laden's international terror network were arrested in Frankfurt, Germany, and Milan, Italy, in April.

German intelligence services have stated that bin Laden is covertly financing neo-Nazi skinhead groups throughout Europe to launch another terrorist attack at a high-profile American target—his first since the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen last October.

According to counter-terrorism experts quoted in Germany's largest newspaper, the attack on Dubya might be a James Bond-like aerial strike in the form of remote-controlled airplanes packed with plastic explosives.

CONTINUED...

http://www.onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/Hatfield-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html



And then what did BUSH DO POST-9-11?

The Traitor attacked Iraq.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #108
117. IIRC, CIA didn't have flight school info...that was in 7/01 FBI memo from Phoenix office sent
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 05:23 PM by Garbo 2004
to FBI HQ and it went nowhere as an action/info item.

Tenet/CIA couldn't rule out domestic attack, but thought attack overseas more likely. In July 2001 mtg Condi focused on the Genoa conference as a potential threat to Bush and didn't pay attention to much else.

FAA had issued warnings/briefings to airlines and major airports in spring/summer 2001 re: possible increased hijacking threat (again, primarily overseas) but no recommendations for beefing up security.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
111. They wiretapped so they could blackmail the Dems
and any Republican who tried to stand in their way. I have a feeling that is why Congress has been so compliant with Bush's every whim.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #111
132. that wiretapping was probably the first thing Cheney
ordered.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
116. My vote is on the New Pearl Harbor event. It seems they knew
of the threat and chose to turn a blind eye; seemingly because they had their own agenda which included PNAC but wasn't limited to that project IMHO.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Nixon White House was "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight" compared to this cabal ...
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 09:52 PM by TahitiNut
... of insane war criminals. The Executive Branch has been (and is) the most corrupt criminal conspiracy in my memory. Even the Families had more class.
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. I hope Frank ups his body guard contigent.
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Strange
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 09:58 PM by noise
How can Rich write this over six years later? At what point does the conduct become more than indifference? At what point does Rich pick up the phone and find out why the intel agencies waited for an asshole like Ashcroft to give them instructions?

By March 2000, according to the C.I.A.’s inspector general, “50 or 60 individuals” in the agency knew that two Al Qaeda suspects — soon to be hijackers — were in America. But there was no urgency at the top. Thomas Pickard, the acting F.B.I. director that summer, told Ms. Mayer that when he expressed his fears about the Qaeda threat to Mr. Ashcroft, the attorney general snapped, “I don’t want to hear about that anymore!”


In Ms. Mayer’s portrayal of the Bush White House, the president is a secondary, even passive, figure, and the motives invoked by Mr. Cheney to restore Nixon-style executive powers are theoretically selfless.

Selfless? Are we to believe the torture policy was implemented in good faith? Does Rich read the work of his colleagues?

The very fact that Mr. Martinez, a career narcotics analyst who did not speak the terrorists’ native languages and had no interrogation experience, would end up as a crucial player captures the ad-hoc nature of the program.

Link

Watered down journalism. After six years Rich should be able to do better than this.



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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
69. It's possible that the journalists are trying to send us signals.
The papers won't publish want investigative journalists really want to tell us. So, we get watered down versions where little facts are slipped in like code.

It's interesting, for instance, that Rich refers to Martinez as a "career narcotics analyst."
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
15. What on earth do they have to worry about? It's not like anyone's going to do anything more...
than write a sternly-worded letter.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. That's what's so frightening.
No one in a high enough position is stopping these bastards. When Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table, she gave them carte blanche. Her name will go down in history as a traitor, and Harry Reid's as well.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #31
47. It unfolded too perfectly...
the pigmedia was involved, otherwise it only take one little revelation (As a college student, a drunken junyer bush danced stark naked on bar in a crowded Houston pub, as noted in "fortunate Son' by murdered writer James Hatfield- such a story is so hard to believe of even a candidate for dogcatcher. Keeping it secret was fraud that begat bush's frauds) What this means is that to expose this plot to defraud the US, all that's necessary is to interrogate the punks at CNN, fox, cbs, nbc and ABC etc, and the entire cesspool will be shown....
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emanymton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. Remember, These Jabroni Said They Reserve The Right To ...
.

send in teams to capture people in foreign countries so that the captured person can be brought to trial. It can work the other direction too.

Imagine how restful shrub, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and the other 'A-list' GOP war-criminal types will sleep knowing that a snatch team (from France, Russia, or China) _may_ be coming for them to take them to the Haag, Netherlands. Oh the joy.

.
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rusty fender Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #37
77. Only problem for Bush is
that he will have SS protection for life, so he won't ever be arrested and Cheney is getting an extra 6 mos. of SS protection after 1/1/09. Given Cheney's ticker, he'll probably be dead before he could ever be arrested. Only the harsh pronouncements of history will touch these two criminals.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. "This time the crime is worse than the cover-up..."
Indeed.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R, and bookmarked. nt
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R n/t
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. k&r
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. "9/11? I was, um, too busy. Smirk." - Commander AWOL
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. This is why the Unitary Executive theory is garbage
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 11:23 PM by noise
Bush had more intel than anyone. Evidently he did nothing with it! So the Addington crowd bluffed (with a pair of 2's) and claimed that 9/11 was not prevented because the POTUS was constrained by checks and balances, the US Constitution and the rule of law. Addington could not be more full of shit!

Bush acted like he had the responsibility of a freshman in college! He didn't clock in for work!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. I Don't Know
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 11:12 PM by Me.
Maybe rendition flights are in the planning stage for these guys, Cheney, black hood over head, being hustled aboard a flight that lands him in international territory.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. I wouldn't count on that, Me.
You, Me, on the other hand, are now a high-percentage candidate.


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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
38. Mayer's "Darkside" to be released 7/15. I ordered it yesterday.
The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How The War on Terror Turned into a War on American Ideals by Jane Mayer.

I also ordered Philippe Sands' Torture Team: Rumsfeld's Memo and the Betrayal of American Values and Torture and the Ticking Bomb (Blackwell Public Philosophy Series) by
Bob Brecher.

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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
39. If 9-11 was all preventable, let it forevermore ring from the rafters: LIHOP, LIHOP,
LIHOP, TRA-LA-LA, TRA-LA-LA, LIHOP, LIHOP, LIHOP :D
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Oh, 9/11 was preventable alright...Weren't there over 60 warnings to the
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 08:09 AM by SpiralHawk
Administration of Commander AWOL in the months leading up to 9/11?

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&before_9/11=warnings

And didn't Commander AWOL and his Republicon chickenhawk cronies head out to the Imperial Pig Farm Upon Crawford to vacation for 5 freaking weeks, turning their 'elite' noses up warning after warning after warning?

Then on the day of 9/11, Commander AWOL's Pentagon had over an hour after the first plane struck the World Trade Center, yet could not muster as much as a pop gun to defend themselves or the Nation's Capital?

What's with that?
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. Everyone knows this, but the Democratic Congress continues to enable junior
to eviscerate the Constitution and continue his war of aggression. Anyone supporting junior/his agenda can't give a shit about 9-11, or so it would seem. It's almost as if 9-11 were such a small price to pay to enable junior to implement the entire PNAC agenda and destroy freedom and liberty at home, again aided and abetted by a now Democratic Congress. :D
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noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
41. My two cents on this revelation...?
This morning on Talking Heads Galore (and tomorrow evenings chopping block)
they all be outraged because Obama forgot to tie his shoe,
(How can a presidential candidate be so neglectful?)

and be guffawing because the avuncular Senator McCain choked
on an ice cube in his ice tea. (Aw, he's human too!)

Dollars to doughnuts this won't get coverage...
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. blashemy i tell you blasphemy
Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what did you see, my darling young one?
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it,
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it,
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin',
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin',
I saw a white ladder all covered with water,
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken,
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children,
And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
42. The Slobodan Milosovicz suite
at The Hague is vacant. Maybe someone has reservations Dick Cheney.
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nradisic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. As a Serb I second that...
Bush should end up just like Milosevic. Criminals belong in jail...
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
49. Thank you again, Mr. Rich
A wonderful summary of all of it - well, most of it anyway. Punch David Brooks in the face for me, will ya?
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
50. Evil allways leaves it's calling card
K & R
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
51. The main difference with the Nixon/Watergate Era,
was that then many Republicans joined with Democrats in demanding justice, whereas today, Democrats have become accomplices with Republicans in preventing the due course of justice.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Exactly. Republicans are now a compliant Reichstag; Dems are enablers.
It should also be noted that back then the Washington Post was a newspaper committed to the truth and investigative reporting, and now is Bush's biggest war cheerleader.

Frank Rich is a lone voice in the media now. He absolutely nails this one.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. Not alone, but it's a small minority without much of a stage
Olbermann (and Maddow, when she steps in for him), Stewart, Colbert and Dan Abrams most of the time on TV; Air America on the radio; and Rich and a few others in print.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #58
66. Don't forget Dan Rather
Karl Rove was able to silence him. He once had a large presence, but that ended abruptly.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #66
95. It still shocks me...
that a man of Rather's stature was brought down so shamefully, and so easily. If CBS had backed him, things would have been different.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #95
119. and don't forget
Rather's CBS tribunal was led by Bush's father's former attorney general... and, when similar happened with 60 Minutes in the 90s with Bill Clinton regarding Kathleen Whilley's appearance, CBS did el zippo.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. The reason that Rethugs 'joined'
was to get nixon the hell out and pardon him to stop the ensuing investigations which would have shown real crimes beyond that which were public at the time. Watergate had much more to do with International and Grassy Knoll issues than it was portrayed to be at the time and even now.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #55
60. What Nellie! Would love to hear more about "international and grassy knoll" issues
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 10:08 AM by SpiralHawk
and how possibly connected to Watergate.

Got a link, PCIntern?

Anyone?
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
56. Is there anything that can stop Bush from issuing a mass pardon?
of every senior official in his White House for crimes they may have committed (a la Ford with Nixon)?

Team Bush and the media will spin it as trying to prevent a partisan witch-hunt if Obama upsets McCain and wins the election.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. Who is going to stop him? Not Congress.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
59. The crime is worse than the cover up,
the refusal to impeach is worse than the crime, Americans refusal to hold those who refuse to impeach unaccountable is worse than refusing to impeach and so forth.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
70. One wonders just how bad it has to get before people notice
I've been shaking my head in disbelief for eight years now and continue to do so, but with a somewhat hopeless feeling that the general population is ignorant and just not interested in their government.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
72. They have to start worring about being Charged With MURDER in the First
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 11:30 AM by Phred42
In that 2 hr Bugliosi BookTV event (below) and in his book Bugliosi states clearly that ANYONE that knew they were lying us into WAR can be charged with Murder 1 carrying a penalty up to and including the Electric Chair. And there is NO statute of limitation on Murder. The key word here is: ANYONE - Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rummy, Rove, Pelosi.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, I woke up at about 3 am this morning and couldn't get back to sleep, went to the couch and happened to find this. I haven't read the book yet, but I think I'll have to. He is really after Bush and the Crime Family. He is so focused on this that during the Q&A he had to pass on a question because he didn't really now anything about the FISA Bill.

I hope he survives these efforts. BushCo HAS to be thinking about "Wellstone-ing" him.

Anyway this show will play again in August - Definitely worth watching.

C-SPAN2: BookTV

The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder


Author: Vincent Bugliosi

Upcoming Schedule Sunday, August 3, at 3:00 PM (2 hrs includes Q&A)
http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=9611&SectionName=&PlayMedia=No

About the Program
Vincent Bugliosi argues that President Bush and his administration are responsible for murdering thousands of U.S. soldiers and over 100,000 Iraqi civilians in Iraq. Mr. Bugliosi says that by taking the country to war under knowingly false pretenses, President Bush has committed the most serious crime in U.S. history. He spoke at an event held at the Venice Center for Peace with Justice and the Arts in California.

About the Author
ln his career as a prosecutor for the Los Angeles District Attorney's office, Vincent Bugliosi was successful in 105 out of 106 felony jury trials, including 21 consecutive murder convictions. He prosecuted Charles Manson and "the Manson family" for a series of California murders and wrote a book about it called "Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders." Mr. Bugliosi's other books include "Outrage: The Five Reasons Why OJ Simpson Got Away With Murder", "The Betrayal of America: How the Supreme Court Undermined the Constitution and Chose Our President", and "Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy."
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CubicleGuy Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
73. As sure as night follows day...
... when the perception of the threat becomes large enough, someone will decide that torture and genocide are justifiable.

Right on time, it's Bush/Cheney.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
76. "But we were only doing what we were told to do."




Now where have I heard that one before? :shrug:







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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
81. Asscroft; "I don't want to hear about that anymore" = LIHOP or
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 12:07 PM by ooglymoogly
covering to make sure MIHOP was not detected.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
85. Any e-mails will still be caught up in the "natural security" wiretapping . . .
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 12:16 PM by defendandprotect
won't it . . . ???

Or maybe that's a back door for getting rid of mail you don't want to be found???


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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
92. “The Dark Side” ...see it here...
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Erda Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
93. To me Frank Rich's article is somewhat of a smoke screen . . .
I spent much of yesterday listening to investigative journalist Daniel Hopsicker's lecture on CIA drug trafficking (link below) and how high-level American politicians were courting Mohammed Atta and his ilk before 9/11 -- selling US arms and expertise in exchange for lots of $$$Money$$$ in the form of drugs. Very similar to Iran-Contra. Sibel Edmunds has been saying or trying to say the same thing. Frank Rich's article avoids any such connection and makes it sound like the Bush Administration was misguided and heavy-handed in RESPONDING to the attack --- almost a virtue. The pre-9/11 connections of our government to these people are being totally ignored. Those connections ENABLED the attack.

Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6618076520601759159&q=daniel+hopsicker+symposium&ei=s9hqSIPcGYyYrAKs1oXaDA&hl=en






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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
96. interesting link here

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/they-knew-but-did-nothing/2008/03/07/1204780065676.html?page=fullpage


The Commission - The Uncensored History Of The 9/11 Investigation by Philip Shenon (Little, Brown, $35)

Don't know much beyond what's posted above.

Sure has a MIHOP aroma to it, doesn't it?

-90% Jimmy
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
100. I reread "The Final Days" a few months ago and the Nixon years
were like fraternity pranks when compared to the Bush crime spree. I hope somewhere, sometime, justice is meted out to these people.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
107. K&R.nt
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
110. "Nixon’s operatic boozing and weeping"

How do we know about this? Are there tapes of Nixon crying or?
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. Yes. Extensive documentation of Tricky Dick in meltdowns with various aides,
Kissinger being one of them. But this President? Makes Nixon look like an amateur petty crook.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
115. 385 comments on this on the NY Times as of 5:20 EDT. Never saw so many.
You have a few dead-enders protesting that "Bush has kept us safe," but most posts thank Frank for this wake-up call.

Extraordinary response. This has got to be kicked and shared all week.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
126. K & R
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
128. Greasy republicon hand prints all over the place
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
129. The editor's selection from the comment section.
Edited on Mon Jul-14-08 09:46 AM by merh
384.
EDITORS' SELECTIONS (what's this?)
July 13th, 2008 4:04 pm

Link
Last month Australian friends came to visit me in Boston for the first time. They took nearly an hour to get through immigration, before taking a cab to my house as I couldn't stop at the airport to pick them up. We couldn't get into the buildings down town we wanted to see (my friends were architects and interested in our famous landmarks) because of security gates and guards. There is no longer an observation deck at the top of the Hancock Tower. We couldn't drive close to other spots because of "temporary" (seven year old) Jersey barriers blocking the road. Our bags were searched at every museum and public building. When they left we had to look for TSA approved padlocks for their luggage, as they weren't aware they were necessary. I took them to the aiport three hours before their flight so they had time to go through the security checks.

When we walked the Freedom Trail at times I felt as though the terrorists had won.

— Andrea, Boston

http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/07/13/opinion/13rich.html?permid=384#comment384
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
130. Here's to hoping they are arrested, convicted, and hang. What's Pelosi's office number again?
Is she still covering for them?
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
133. It's another kick...
because...
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-14-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
134. Let me KICK to keep this story up there. Sadly very true.
The Bush Admin has committed crimes far worse than Nixon's.
They've done exactly what he did-- bugging opposition planning-- and far far more.
And yes, they have really make our country far less secure than before they took over.
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