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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:59 PM
Original message
Dumb question about Mexico
What is the difference between the people who the Mexican government is working with and the people who they're fighting against?

There have been several stories in the news recently about Mexican police being killed in fights against drug-funded paramilitaries. Back in 2006, Bradley Will was killed by rightwing paramilitaries working with the Mexican government. Was there an alliance between drug-funded paramilitaries and the Mexican government that has since collapsed? Or is the government still working with these groups?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. There was a longstanding alliance between corrupt police
and local government and the drug lords until the drug lords got just a little too powerful. That alliance is just beginning to break down, as I understand it, and some of what we think of as beat cops might still be allied with the narcotrafficantes. In areas that turned a blind eye to the drug barons, the most obvious turf wars among the barons are also affecting rival groups in the police and military.

To say the situation is complicated is an understatement, but basically the drug barons were getting powerful enough to challenge the central government and we all know central governments take a dim view of that.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out, whether there is a full fledged war in several states or if the government realizes that the drug war is a total farce and simply legalizes the whole thing, making the thugs put on suits and pay taxes like all the other chumps.

My guess is that it will be the former until they've exhausted resources and slaughtered too many civilians.

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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks for explaining.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Thanks for the excellent update, Warpy! I'm especially concerned about the impact
of the corrupt, failed, murderous Bush-U.S. "war on drugs" as to suppressing leftist dissent and protest in Mexico, as Bushbot Calderon tries to privatize Mexico's oil (a constitutionally protected resource), his return favor for the Bushites' help in stealing the last election from the left. Oil is THE political issue in Mexico right now. More submachine guns, helicopters and militarism (the "war on drugs") on Exxon Mobil's side of the issue (what the war materiel is really for) could result in serious civil disorder and bloodshed--even a second revolution.

I've followed a number of developments on this score in Mexico, particularly the teachers' union strike/Oaxaca uprising, and its smashing by the federal police. One good resource is www.narconews.com. Here is a sampling of current stories:

Stops Along the Cancer Treatment Trail
“The nurse asked me to close my eyes, take a few deep breaths, and imagine myself in a calm, familiar and peaceful place. I pictured myself on on Isla Mujeres, Quintana Roo, with my Narco News cohorts”
By George Sanchez
The Arizona Star
July 7, 2008

84 New Co-Publishers in Three Weeks, and 42 Regional Groups
Narco News Continues Breaking the Information Blockade, Now on Both Sides of the Border
By Al Giordano
Publisher, Narco News
July 7, 2008

North America Doesn't Exist
Proponents of Extending the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) Flunk Geography, and Economics, Too
By Laura Carlsen
IRC Americas Program
July 7, 2008

Company that Led Training in Torture Techniques for Mexican Police Is Risks Incorporated of Miami, Florida
Trainer Gerardo “Jerry” Arrechea is a High-Ranking Member of the Comandos F4, an Armed Cuban Terrorist Organization
By Kristin Bricker
Via The NarcoSphere
en español... La Empresa Encargada del Entrenamiento de Tortura para la Policía Mexicana es Risks Incorporated de Miami, Florida
July 7, 2008

Congressman Still Has Chance to Redeem Himself in Juarez Kidnapping Case
U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes Should Call for Congressional Oversight Hearings in the House of Death Abductions and Murders
By Bill Conroy
Via The NarcoSphere
July 5, 2008

León Torture Trainers Identified
Mexican Daily El Universal Reports More Details Behind the Training-for-Torturers Video
By Kristin Bricker
Via the Narcosphere
July 4, 2008

Source: US Military Special-Ops Team, and Not the Colombian Army, Carried Out Hostage Rescue in Colombia
Months in the Planning, the Operation Included US Special Forces Posing as Members of a “French Humanitarian Group”
By Bill Conroy
Special to The Narco News Bulletin
July 3, 2008

Plan Mexico: Uphill Battle Will Continue Against Failed Model
What to Expect Now that US President Bush Has Signed the Merida Initiative into Law
By Laura Carlsen
Americas Mexico Blog
July 3, 2008

So, That's Why McCain Went to Colombia
Colombia's Uribe Leaped into Partisan Quicksand; Why Mexico's Calderon Is Unlikely to Do the Same
By Al Giordano
The Field
July 3, 2008

US Private Contractor Leads Torture Training in Mexico
Warning: Graphic Content from the Training Videos Appear with This Story
By Kristin Bricker
Via the Narcosphere
July 2, 2008

McCain Backer’s Firm Pled Guilty to Funding a Terrorist Group in Colombia
Chiquita Paid a $25 Million Fine After Convicted of Financing the Paramilitary Organization “United Self Defense Forces” (AUC)
By Nico Pitney
The Huffington Post
July 2, 2008

Factual Plagiarism: The AP, NY Times, Washington Post & Washington Times Stole Their Work from Narco News This Week
The News Organizations Used an “Internal ICE Memorandum” on the Reyes Kidnapping Without Citing the Source
By Al Giordano
Publisher, Narco News
June 29, 2008

Congressman Defends ICE's Rescue of Mexican Citizen Kidnapped in Juarez
Government Watchdog Group Asks, "Did ICE officials assist in resolving a foreign kidnapping simply because the victim is related to a powerful member of Congress?"
By Bill Conroy
Via the Narcosphere
June 27, 2008

Immigration Issue About to Cross the Media Border
US Presidential Candidates McCain and Obama Will Either Frame Clear Positions on Immigration Reform, or Be Framed By It
By Al Giordano
Via The Field
June 26, 2008

US Rep. Silvestre Reyes Sought US Help for Kidnapped Relative
Paper Credits Narco News with Breaking the Story; Quotes Copublisher and Former ICE Official Miguel Contreras
By Diana Washington Valdez
The El Paso Times
June 26, 2008

A Hidden Agenda: John McCain and the IRI
US Presidential Candidate McCain’s Connection to the IRI Could Endanger Already Stressed US-Latin American Relations
By Sarah Hamburger
Council on Hemispheric Affairs
June 25, 2008

Juarez Kidnapping Case Opens Pandora’s Box for Congressman Silvestre Reyes
Victim, Assisted by U.S. Law Enforcement, Was Relative of Congressman's Wife and a Mexican Citizen
By Bill Conroy
Via The NarcoSphere
June 25, 2008

McCain to Travel to Colombia and Mexico Next Week
US Republican Presidential Candidate Has Colombian “Free Trade” Agreement and the Drug War on His Agenda
By Jill Zuckman
The Baltimore Sun
June 24, 2008

Send Al to Denver
“We must not let others determine our fate... let him speak freely and come what may, I believe we will know that we have been participating in the American experience.”
By Jamaica Kincaid
The Field
June 24, 2008

US Congressman's Family Member Kidnapped, then Released, in Juarez
Abduction of the Sister-in-Law of US Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-Texas) Met with Turf War Between Homeland Security (ICE) and DEA
By Bill Conroy
Via The NarcoSphere
June 23, 2008

Two Years Later in Oaxaca: Part IV and Final
What’s the Difference - Law and Memory as Political Weapons
By Nancy Davies
Commentary from Oaxaca
June 23, 2008

APPO and PRIistas Clash in Zaachila, Oaxaca
Protesters Accused the Father of the Current Municipal President of Having Fired Shots at Supporters of the Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca
By Eliza Ruiz Jaimes
Noticias Voz e Imagen de Oaxaca
en español... Chocan APPO y priístas en Zaachila
June 23, 2008

Charges Finally Dropped Against Father Gerard Jean-Juste
After Intense International Pressure Haitian Court Dismisses Unsubstantiated Allegations of Criminal Association and Firearms Possession of Popular Haitian Activist
By Wadner Pierre and Joe Emersberger
HaitiAnalysis
June 22, 2008

The House of Death: Now Available on Video
Major Overseas TV Network Tackles a Story the U.S. Networks Fear to Cover
By the People and Power series
Al-Jazeera English
June 19, 2008

Two Years Later in Oaxaca: Part III
What’s the Difference - The Long Slow Process on the Ground and the Observance of June 14
By Nancy Davies
Commentary from Oaxaca
June 18, 2008

Panama Supreme Court to Review US-Backed Drug Interdiction Program
The Arrest and Imprisonment of Two Suspects by the United States May Have Violated Panama’s Constitution
By Okke Ornstein
Via The NarcoSphere
June 17, 2008

Al Giordano's "The Field" Moves to Narco News
Faced with Censorship, Al Has Disassociated Himself and The Field from its Former Host
By The Narco News Team
(Celebrating in the Newsroom)
June 14, 2008

The New Government Provocation Against Zapatismo
“The New Governmental Effort to Make Out the EZLN to Be an Accomplice in Organized Crime Attempts to Take Advantage of the Wave of Anti-Narco Sentiment”
By Luis Hernández Navarro
La Jornada
en español... Zapatismo: la nueva provocación gubernamental
June 12, 2008

No Rest For the Working Poor
Globalization Continues to Break Down Its Own Myths, Especially in Developing Countries
By Laura Carlsen
Americas MexicoBlog
June 11, 2008

Death Squads in Oaxaca
The Mexican Government Ignores the Assassination of Two Community Radio Activists
By John Gibler
In These Times
June 10, 2008

Mexican Military and Police Use Drug War to Attempt to Enter Zapatista Territory
They Claimed to Be Looking for Marijuana Plants; Local Civilians Drove them Away
By The Good Government Council
La Garrucha, Chiapas, Mexico
en español... Con el pretexto de la guerra contra las drogas, militares y policías intentan entrar a territorio zapatista
June 6, 2008
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Another take on your question.
There is violent political thuggery at all levels in Mexico, from disputes between (and within) villages, competing unions, and hired gunman working for local officials. It's simplistic to just say it's "the Mexican government," because, like the US, Mexico has many different layers of government. Mexico also has some lingering guerrilla movements, which provide a convenient pretext for the national government to occupy whole zones of the country (Guerrero, Oaxaca) in the name of national security.

The drug cartels are something else. They're not "paramilitaries" but heavily armed criminal organizations (although the difference may be mainly semantic). Unlike the FARC or the paramilitaries in Colombia, the cartels don't appear to have any interest in taking power or governing or influencing the state, EXCEPT that they want to be left alone to do their business.

As far as I know, there is no connection between the cartels and the violence in Oaxaca City that left Brad Will, among others, dead. That was a local conflict.

The cartels have cultivated law enforcement at all levels, from municipal police to state police to federal police to the military. They offer them a simple choice: plomo o plata, lead or silver, the bullet or the bribe. Many, many Mexican police officers have chosen the latter.

The roots of the current "narco-violence" are two-fold: First, a response to the Calderon government's attempted crackdown on the cartels, and second, infighting among the competing cartels themselves as they jockey for position and control of "the franchise" (la plaza) in various locales.


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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ok, that makes sense.
So if it's mostly the police and local government officials who are taking bribes from drug cartels, does that mean that high-ranking people in the federal government, for all their other corrupt practices, aren't doing business with drug lords?
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. We won't know until they get caught or assassinated.
Drug corruption has repeatedly infected successive federal police forces and the military, too.

The assassination of a number of high-ranking Federal Preventive Police (PFP) officials in Mexico City in recent weeks suggests that they were NOT on the take, just as it suggests someone in the PFP was. The hit-men knew where to be to find their targets.

Usually, you don't find out who was crooked in any given Mexican administration until the next sexenio, when the current crew retires and the next crew decides to root out corruption. (It'll be their turn to be corrupt later.)
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