Obama says despite shortcomings of Bush administration, impeachment is not acceptable

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/28/america/NA-POL-US-Obama-No-Impeachment.php

Published: June 28, 2007

WASHINGTON: Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama laid out list of political shortcomings he sees in the Bush administration but said he opposes impeachment for either President George W. Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney.

Obama said he would not back such a move, although he has been distressed by the "loose ethical standards, the secrecy and incompetence" of a "variety of characters" in the administration.

"There's a way to bring an end to those practices, you know: vote the bums out," the presidential candidate said, without naming Bush or Cheney. "That's how our system is designed."



Barack Obama is now the de facto leader of the Democratic party. I stand with him. I think its time to get with the program. The Republicans are our enemy. Not our Dem leaders in Congress. I think the sooner we begin to learn and deal with this fact the better off we will all be.

Don

[wtmusic]

1. "Vote the bums out?"

:rofl:

Just what would it take for you to support impeachment? If Bush walked down the street and murdered someone, should we still wait to "vote the bum out"?

[fascisthunter]

6. no shit.....

[lame54]

84. You can't vote them out - they made it to the fucking finish line...

and every extremely bad policy they passed will remain intact
what a fucking joke

[MrSlayer]

159. Bingo.

As predicted. But really anyone could have predicted it, if they were following along. Now, the war criminals and profiteers will go on to count their blood money and rake in even more on the lecture circuit. Justice? There is very little true "justice" in this world.

To me, American politics are the intellectual equivalent of the WWF. You know it's almost all fake but you get caught up in the drama.

[Dogtown]

181. Excellent comparison!

They definitely are about showmanship.


:applause:

[no_hypocrisy]

2. I agree with Obama. No impeachment.

However, Bastille Day is upon us.

Throw *'s sorry ass in the Bastille!

[fascisthunter]

3. Impeachment is "Unacceptable"?

fuck that

The Dems are going to sweep all Bushco's crime under that rug once again. Problem is, the crap under that rug has built up too high for people to walk by without noticing it.

[merh]

28. Some folks just don't use their damned brains in any way

Politically -- the time for impeachment is past - unless of course the proceedings be had after they are out of office to take their retirement and other benefits of office from them. (Hasn't Conyers said to wait until they are out, that now is not the time.)

Now, if you let the bastards leave thinking just what you are thinking, that they don't have to answer for their crimes, more likely than not they will become complacent and not shred, burn, destroy all evidence of their crimes (and/or, as conspiracy theorists opine, declare martial law, crush any elections and lock down dissent).

Nothing can be accomplished with the numbers we have in congress and at this late stage of the game - it is better to win the White House and as many elected offices, seats in congress, as possible than to be distracted with the legal maneuvering that impeachment would entail.

I pray he does investigate and see to it the bastards are held responsible, I know he said he will - he can't do that until he is in office and there is no way impeachment proceedings can happen between now and November, so let's get him in office.

[fascisthunter]

38. hope you are right, mr. brain

because history tells me that you are dreaming.

[wtmusic]

45. It's all a part of a bigger stratagerizing.

You need to look at the big picture. You see high crimes and misdemeanors? Still not big enough.

W says wait, and history will prove him right on the Iraq War. You see war crimes? Still not long enough.

[merh]

53. LOL - recent history should tell you that you are dreaming

there isn't sufficient support in congress for impeachment proceedings, too many dems worried about keeping their office, can't take the distract that type of proceeding would cause -

eye on the prize, get the dems in office

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. Wrong, but that is ok

and by the way, ethics be damned as long as it is OUR bitch.

[merh]

156. Not wrong

Are you really this dense or just too blinded by emotion to see the truth.

Let's say Obama says "we must impeach" - does he have the support of the requisite members of congress?

Ermmmm, NO - Kucinich and Conyers don't have the support - hell it is Conyers, the man working on this for years now, that says it won't happen during this admin's term. How many signatures on the Petition, how long has the effort been underway? And what has come of it?

And why did Kucinich wait until after he dropped out of the race to take any action about impeachment?

[KoKo]

175. Yes....it was foolish for activists to fight...for Conyers to write his book.....for him to

hold hearings in the House Basement promising Election Reform. Kucinich is just an "opportunist" who is a "safety valve" for releasing Left Wing "gas." I agree, it was all really useless since they weren't ever going to do anything in the first place... Because it was all about them raking in money to keep their power. It was all about them "supposedly standing up" while we sent them money on their websites for "supposedly protecting our Constitution."

Yes....we must support Obama and "throw the bums out." Actually we should have kept quiet about all this and not urged Congress to do anything. Obama is going to win. Candidates will be re-elected and the "swing voters" will elect new Democrats. Activists are neither wanted or needed in the Democratic Party...except for some "loose change" we give that makes them feel they are being supported by donors other than the Lobbyists for Big Business. It's a neat game. It's hard to have respect for those who play it, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

182. You know at this point I am done with the "game"

and lord knows it is a game

Reinhuld Nieburh also wrote of a game... in another era

And I will take his advise on this one

To live a moral life inside a very sick and ammoral society

At this point I see spinners as part of the problem

[blues90]

85. The constitution demands impeachment

So to ignore it then it is a damn piece of worthless paper. Here again our wonderful dem party allowed our rights to be stomped into the dirt. Now it's too late , well it was not in 2007 jan 20th.

This just tells people with a brain that we don't matter and allows any crime in the future to go without following the law.

I don't agree at all with Obama , he takes the attitude that he is already the president.

I will not just take him at his word and hope all will come out in the wash and I don't want to just move forward when so many have been left to drop in the last 7 1/2 years.

What are these people now who have lost everything , just trash? Expendable trash?

This is not america and has not been for quite some time and it just gets worse.

[merh]

86. Where does it demand impeachment

Please, tell me where? Aren't there procedures which must be followed to bring about impeachment? Aren't there laws to be followed?

Doesnt that constitution give congress the right to decide? Are you ignoring it as you scream at them for ignoring it?

Just because you think he is guilty of something, just because I think he is guilty of something doesn't make it happen, doesn't make it a fact. If you want to be elected to congress to make a difference and to make this happen then of course you have that right. You also have the right to vote for folks that agree with you. How is your congressperson voting, your rep or senator? Mine, no matter how hard I try to convince them that their job is to impeach, they keep ignoring my damned letters and emails. See, that is the thing about our republic, our representative democracy, our reps get to do what they want once we elect them to power.

All the indignation and angry words in the world aren't going to make them change their minds. You should know that by know, we have had cause for impeachment for at least 4 years that I recall, if not more.

[blues90]

90. If they have proof of crimes they are bound to impeach

Of course I know this will never happen or it would have by now. This just shows me a few reps care at all .

I have emailed Boxer , forget Feinstein and ever still there is no drop down box to choose the topic of impeachment as if they don't already know all about what the people want.

We get nothing but elections and best guess choices like the better of two evils ,well that's not choice to me.

I have about as much faith in this fake and phony system as I do if I leaped off a hundred story building and held faith to not splatter on the sidewalk.

[Occam Bandage]

103. ...what kind of fifty-cent legal bullshit is that? Please, explain to me exactly how

Congress might have "proof" of any sort of criminal action without a criminal trial. Keep in mind that any declaration of criminal action without a trial would amount to a bill of attainder and would be unconstitutional.

No, Congress is not under any circumstances bound to impeach. The House may impeach if they believe crimes have been committed; there is then a trial in the Senate, which convicts if it believes crimes have been committed and acquits if it believes that has not been proven.

[blues90]

121. I am refering to the book which Conyers listed the crimes

And the 35 crimes Kucinich spoke of . There are grounds to impeach but Pelosi will not take it off the table. They can do this but won't.

Am I missing something? Are you telling me there is not enough to begin the process of impeachment?

I know how the legal process works, we just have not done a thing .

Please do tell me where I'm wrong.

[Occam Bandage]

122. Sure, there's grounds to impeach. There's always grounds to impeach.

Congress could impeach Barack Obama the day he takes office if they really want to. The "grounds to impeach" are as follows:

1. Articles of impeachment are submitted to Congress.
2. The motion comes to a vote.
3. The motion passes.

Those are the only grounds to impeach.

[blues90]

123. why do I get the feeling

You appear to feel impeachment is not the thing to do right now?

Kucinich has introduced articals of impeachment and so far they are just on record.

Am I wrong thinking you don't feel impeachment is a good idea?

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. Many blue dogs and DLC folks don't

they are guilty by association and fear where those hearings will lead

Of course there is this we have been listening to all since we took office shit, so who knows what they have on them

Profiles in political courage NOT

And yes. I see no difference with the members of the Imperial Party... it is real and has members in both parties

[Occam Bandage]

151. For instance, just about every elected or DNC official but Dennis Kucinich.

[merh]

157. And Kucinich knew it was such a politically charged topic that

he waited until after he dropped out of the race to present the Articles of Impeachment to the house. If it were such a cool thing, why didn't he run with it while campaigning?

[Occam Bandage]

150. Because you're the sort who is unable to handle disagreement without lumping someone into

an "enemy" box?

[blues90]

171. Enemy box , I'm asking a question

I am asking what you think. At this point I don't know so I can't very well put you in any box. Don't have an enemy box as far as I know.

[Occam Bandage]

174. Well, to answer the question, I don't know why you think that. I'm not a telepath.

[blues90]

179. only because I brought up that the constituion demands it

and really got just the process from you. It was not like you felt they should be impeached. Or that there was proof of crimes.

[BR_Parkway]

165. There was a Federal judge who ruled that Bush had committed a Felony

recently - doesn't that count as a conviction of a crime being committed?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/07/09/alharamain_lawsuit

July 9, 2008 | On July 3, Chief Judge Vaughn Walker of the U.S. District Court in California made a ruling particularly worthy of the nation's attention. In Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation Inc. v. Bush, a key case in the epic battle over warrantless spying inside the United States, Judge Walker ruled, effectively, that President George W. Bush is a felon.

Judge Walker held that the president lacks the authority to disregard the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA -- which means Bush's warrantless electronic surveillance program was illegal. Whether Bush will ultimately be held accountable for violating federal law with the program remains unclear. Bush administration lawyers have fought vigorously -- at times using brazen, logic-defying tactics -- to prevent that from happening. The court battle will continue to play out as Congress continues to battle over recasting FISA and possibly granting immunity to telecom companies involved in the illegal surveillance.

[onenote]

166. and Truman's seizure of the steel mills during the Korean War was held unconsitutional

Should Truman have been impeached? What about FDR and the internment of Japanese Americans. It was held constitutional by the SCOTUS. Does that make it right? Does it mean that an attempt to impeach him would have been wrong?
Yes, various actions taken by chimpy and his gang have been held to be illegal and/or unconsitutional. There is nothing new about that. Every administration takes actions that are challenged in court and struck down.

Would an impeachment inquiry regarding chimpy and gang have been justified? Sure.
But whether or not such an effort was made is up to the complete and unfettered discretion of Congress, just as it was when FDR was president and just as it was when Truman was president. There is no "duty" to impeach or even to consider impeachment (let alone to convict).

[mmonk]

155. No justice, no vote.

[merh]

158. You've got that backwards

If you don't vote (if we don't change the power structure that is, if we don't vote the bums out) there will be no justice.

Hold your breath and turn blue if you like, it won't get you anywhere.

[biglake]

50. Obama is WRONG

[biglake]

56. First we/he needs to stand for something (like Justice...a a few other things too) for America

[KansDem]

4. And this is why I still support a Kucinich avitar...

I will vote for Obama in November, but I detest another "put it all behind us" approach to the current malfeasance. Lee Hamilton did this in the wake of Iran-Contra and look what happened: the thugs and cutthroats returned to lie us into war and commit a long list of crimes.

"Voting the bums out" is not the answer: "Voting the bums out and putting them in prison" is...

[Zhade]

142. I get the distinct impression that many here can't even admit to the evidence of their crimes.

NT!

[Pale Blue Dot]

5. If our Dem leaders in Congress are enabling our enemies,

then they are no better than our enemies.

[bdamomma]

26. those are our domestic enemies.

doesn't it say in the Constitution what the American people can do when we have encountered "domestic enemies."

[katty]

77. Dem leaders have enabled AND served W&gang over&over again

[Autonomy]

7. I agree with Obama

but mostly for two points: political expediency and the maintenance of the extremely high standards for impeachment.

I would suggest, though, that republicans are our "adversaries" and not our enemies.

[MedleyMisty]

19. So a personal affair is an extremely high standard

but wars on false pretext and destroying the Constitution is a-okay and acceptable?

Good to know.

[Autonomy]

80. NO

a personal affair (a la Bill Clinton) is definitely NOT a high standard. Hence it become the role of the Dems to become guardians of that standard. IOW, don't do as they do.

[Leopolds Ghost]

51. Autonomy: "Republicans are not our enemies" "I want extremely high standard for impeachment"

OK, thx bai.

[Autonomy]

81. You are welcome

Bye.

[still_one]

8. At this time impeachment is just a diversion. Thanks to Pelosi and company, that decision has

already been made

There is no doubt that many of the Democrats in Congress enabled bush to get away with murder

At this stage in the game I want the Democrats to control the executive branch and Congress

The issues of the Supreme Court, Iraq, healthcare, the environment are up for stakes, and if we win everything, I will NOT tolerate any backsliding from the Democratic majority

[OneBlueSky]

9. "I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breeches . . .

and intentional breeches of the president's authority," he said.

I am also supporting Obama, but he is dead wrong on this one . . . by not impeaching Bush, he is saying that what Bush did is not serious enough to warrant his trial, conviction, and removal from office . . . if Bush's transgressions weren't sufficient grounds for impeachment, what are? . . .

letting Bush get away with his crimes is giving future presidents -- including Obama -- carte blanche to repeat them . . . as a constitutional scholar, Obama knows this . . . his position has everything to do with politics and nothing to do with what's right . . .

yes, I will be voting for him . . . but I vehemently disagree with him on this one . . . and his position makes me doubt that he will have the balls to stand up to the corporate/government oligarchy in order to bring about real change once elected . . . very, very disappointing, imo . . .

[wtmusic]

15. Grave breeches?

Black is appropriate.

[loyalsister]

33. What he knows and what everyone here should know

is that there is no way in hell * is not protected from impeachment by technical details.
Democrats would be humiliated by *'s attorney in the end and we should know better. Again it would alter puplic perception.
It is because Obama is a constitutional scholar that he knows the devil is in the details. The investigationtions should come after Obama takes office.

[Greyhound]

52. Care to bet whether anything is done afterwords?

The passing of yet another opportunity to take back what has always been ours.

Don't worry, the masters will surely take care of some of us.

[slipslidingaway]

39. Or maybe these are bad or really dumb policies...

:(

"...So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing between really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances..."

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Barack_on_torture.html

[Spouting Horn]

41. "his position has everything to do with politics

and nothing to do with what's right".

Yes, they are politicians after all.

Obama must tilt to the center to appear more centrist than he really is, which only makes sense, since he's trying to WIN the Presidency.

[Beacool]

68. Yeah, well, I guess that Bil Clinton getting a few BJs from some more than willing girl

is a grave, grave "breech"..........

:eyes:

[mikelgb]

10. system is also designed with impeachment fucker

[Captain Hilts]

11. Impeachment, in this case, would also be a learning process. Gonzales and Cheney...

should be impeached. Work from there.

[Fumesucker]

12. Impeachment is written into the Constitution..

In other words, it is part of the way "our system is designed".

I'm not a Constitutional lawyer but I know that, I wonder why Obama does not?

[steven88]

13. Obama Ditto-head

Do you wake up in the morning and go to Obama's web page to find out what your beliefs are for the day?

[NNN0LHI]

17. Who are you planning on voting for in November friend?

[steven88]

60. Not McCain

I will never vote McCain. But if Obama continues to lie and change his positions, I may not vote for the President at all. I don't think Obama would be the Democratic candidate if he had made his true positions known. FISA, Pro Choice, Iraq War; where does the truth lie? Obama's declarations and promises seem to have about a 30 day half-life.

[NNN0LHI]

65. Not voting for Obama is just about the same as voting for McCain

Same fucking result. Four more years (at least) of Rethugs in the White House.

Is that what you want?

Don

[steven88]

82. Not True

You want to make me responsible for Obama's actions. If Obama thiks he can get more votes by moving to the right, that is his decision, although he should have done that in the primaries. It is dishonest to mislead during the primary and change later. But he bears the weight of that decision, not me. If Obama loses, it is the his fault.

[Beacool]

69. Good one!!!

:rofl:

[LSK]

76. psst: the Primaries are over

:eyes:

[lonestarnot]

14. Oh brother...

:eyes:

[mdmc]

16. Bush hasn't done anything impeachable

:toast::patriot:

[undeterred]

21. ...no, not much

:sarcasm:

[wtmusic]

24. No he's a real angel

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:denyKEz7lTEJ:kucinich.us/impeachment/articles.pdf+kucinich+bush+impeachment+resolution+text&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

[Lorien]

61. That's right! No blow job, no impeachment

:banghead:

[texasleo]

18. He called them "bums!" New Obamascandal!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DailyGrind51]

20. Once again, someone is ready to bail GWB out of a mess he created!

[bdamomma]

22. oh crap, I do not agree with him on this

they are war criminals period, is he going to feel the same way when they start another illegal invasion into Iran.

[noamnety]

59. pffft.

no-options-are-off-the-table-obama will lead us into Iran if Bush doesn't. He'll probably be grateful if Bush does it so he can give a speech against it and put the blame on someone else. He's never said he wouldn't do the same, only that he'd try diplomacy first before he starts bombing them.

[NNN0LHI]

64. Yes I am sure Obama just can't wait to give the order to bomb Iran

I think some of you may be going nuts around here?

Don

[noamnety]

74. "Iran is a grave threat. It has an illicit nuclear program. "

""The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat," he told his audience at the gathering.

Obama also stressed that he would always keep the military option against Iran on the table to defend US security and its ally, Israel."

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=61626§ionid=351020104

[Occam Bandage]

101. You'd have to be a moron to think either is false.

Nobody doubts that Iran is heavily involved with geopolitics in the most dangerous part of the world. Nobody doubts that Iran has a nuclear program (a nuclear weapons program is another matter). They admit to both.

Neither of those means anyone is getting bombed.

[charlie]

23. Then wish them well

with a hearty "Until next time!", because we'll be seeing them again, like the Iran-Contra retreads currently wrecking the country.

[loyalsister]

25. Is an "imperfection" of Democracy

that we don't throw the last administration in prison or kill them?
The label of enemy is unhealthy for us. We will be better to rise above that and purge that crap.
Remember how when Bush took office they talked about all of the sabotage and there was all kinds of acrimony?
Kicking off an administration that would have the everyone take sides immediatly and thankfully for him abandon Bushes talk about being a uniter.
It didn't work out so well for the rest of us, however.
Since we have had a president who has become so unpopular we may be able to take the WH back.

Obama has convinced many people of his argument that political distractions detract from the work of congress and the president and prevent them for passing bills that guarantee universal health coverage.
He is not going to play hypocrite here and get involved in something that can easily be interpreted as one.
People don't understand how few honestly want to go through to process of an impeachment despite believing that they deserve it.

[NNN0LHI]

42. Perhaps the Republicans are not your enemy but they sure are mine

Every one I know is deranged in the head in one way or another. Whether it is torture or Shock and Awe they all seem to get off on it in some sick way. Every one of them puts their own personal financial gain ahead of what is good for our country.

Not only are they the enemy they are also dangerous.

Don

[sourmilk]

27. I think he's actually beginning to flake out.

Maybe he needs a vacation?

He's certainly not winning many converts on his own side of the aisle with this crap. He's starting to sound more like Pelosi every day.

[NNN0LHI]

30. This is from over a year ago June 28, 2007. I put it in bold in the OP

[sourmilk]

36. Missed that, unfortunately. Learning disabled? Functionally illiterate?

Canadian?

Still disagree with his view on impeachment, however. Still sounds like Pelosi, to me, as well.

[wtmusic]

29. He assumes people will vote for him anyway

when in all likelihood Dem voters will just stay home.

Why bother.

[NNN0LHI]

35. No Dem I know will stay home in November

Just because of gas prices alone.

Don

[Pastiche423]

92. I am staying home in November

[NNN0LHI]

129. You vote early don't you?

Thats the way to do it.

Saves on the gas.

Don

[Pastiche423]

133. Nope

[katandmoon]

31. The cognitive dissonance is complete

[Vinca]

32. How about lock the bums up? I strongly disagree with Obama on this.

Or maybe not. Impeachment is too good for Bush and Cheney. We need to go directly to war crimes trials.

[leftofthedial]

34. Justice and the rule of law in America are UNACCEPTABLE.

Without justice there can be no change.

-sigh-

At least I don't have to bother with politics for the next four and a half years.

[Leopolds Ghost]

58. That's why he's voting for the FISA Enabling Act.

Anything less would be unacceptable.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

37. Is there a penalty for not upholding the Constitution when you have sworn that you will?

Or are they just empty words?

[MonkeyFunk]

40. No, there is not

and even if there were, it's unlikely YOUR interpretation of what it means to "uphold the constitution" would win out.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

62. Of course, according to You, Shrub and company haven't committed any crimes.

I am not surprised by Your response at all.

No need to reply and have a lovely day.

[MonkeyFunk]

87. Can you point me to a single instance of me saying any such thing?

You cannot.

Why just make up shit about people?

[MonkeyFunk]

139. You had all day!

You can't find ONE single example of your assertion?

I knew you couldn't, because I never said any such thing. People like to lie here, for some reason.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

172. Since when is there an interpretation of what it means to uphold the Constitution?

I think in only YOUR mind and the mind of others, whom for whatever their own purpose don't believe in accountability and upholding the rule of law.

[MonkeyFunk]

173. Since the constitution was written.

That's why we have courts. What a silly argument.

I do believe in accountability and the rule of law. I can also count to 67.

[dysfunctional press]

43. that FUCKER is going to go the "put it all behind us and move on" route, just like clinton did.

the bfee is goig to skate yet again.
poppy must have files on everyone...

jeb-idiah is going to be a shoo-in in 2012.


this country is really starting to suck, BIG time.

[Leopolds Ghost]

57. Yes. He is part of the Clinton Machine now. We now know Austin Goolsbee was right.

[Occam Bandage]

105. Yes. Just like every single President in the history of the United States of America did.

[dysfunctional press]

137. every single president had a reason to investigate the previous administration for high crimes?

:shrug:

extremely doubtful...

[Oak2004]

44. No. Just because someone is a Democrat they are not automatically on my side

That attitude amounts to party over people, party over country. My loyalties run in the opposite direction, and I will not hesitate to oppose wrong policies, regardless of the letter that appears after a politician's name.

If the letter mattered so much, I'd still be a Republican, no?

[NNN0LHI]

47. If the letter mattered so much, I'd still be a Republican, no? You might be?

There is no way for me to know your party loyalty on an anonymous political web site.

Don

[Oak2004]

49. And you might be a freeper posting this knowing it would stir up trouble

But if that is the game we're going to play, I'd think we'd need to shut the internet down.

[NNN0LHI]

63. You should always keep an open mind to such occurrences

Because it does happen.

Don

[Oak2004]

72. Certainly it happens

but when suspicion, without evidence, is tossed around in lieu of actual discussion, what is the point of discussion boards?

[SidDithers]

46. But, but, but...

doesn't he know that some posters at DU really, really want impeachment?

I mean, isn't that enough?

Sid

[Marr]

48. Our system is designed for impeachment. It's part of the system.

It was placed in there specifically to deal with things like the Bush Administration, not blow jobs.

[spanone]

54. our system is also designed to punish those who break the law even if you vote them out

[Leopolds Ghost]

55. OBAMA: "BUSH DID NOT COMMIT ANY CRIMES... AND I WILL VOTE TO LEGALIZE HIS POLICIES"

OK, Obama. Thanks for playing.

[Bluenorthwest]

66. No justice

So does he think it is acceptable to punish and imprison those who have commited victimless crimes but not acceptable to even try those who start wars of aggression? That is what creeps me out. Lock up for young people with a joint, millions of bonus bucks for actual criminals. An ethic like that teaches all the wrong principles. It may be politically expedient, but it is morally reprobate thinking.
If they get to walk, there are milloins in prison for far less that should be pardoned.

[Voltaire99]

67. Obama's a pussy. Who's surprised?

Like Pelosi, this cat's got no fire. He has essentially proven Nader's point about the duopoly.

So much for the "change we can believe in" -- didn't take long for it to become unbelievable.

Now, how many of you obedient sheep are going to stand up and go baaaaaah? Let's hear you; it's what you're good for.

[Individualist]

70. Refusal to impeach is unacceptable.

[onenote]

71. impeachment is not "unacceptable". It is unobtainable, however.

First, I don't see anywhere in the article where Obama used the word "unacceptable". If it is in there as coming from his mouth, rather than from a headline writer, and I missed it, please point it out.

Second, impeachment is unobtainable. That is a cold hard fact. Take a look at the vote in the House on FISA and tell me that you honestly believe that a majority in the House would vote to start a full blown impeachment inquiry. Not. Going. To. Happen.

If impeachment had been made an issue in 2006 during the elections, I think maybe it could've gotten some momentum. But it wasn't and that suggests that the public isn't that interested in it. What they are interested in, of course, is the economy, the price of gas, health care, and to a somewhat diminishing extent compared to a year or so ago, the war.

[cascadiance]

73. So I guess we should never have had president Gerald Ford, right?

We should have never done impeachment hearings on Nixon (and just vote the bums out), and waited until he nuked North Vietnam, which according to Daniel Ellsberg he had plans to and WOULD HAVE done so had it not been for massive protests and the impeachment efforts that went on then!

Obama, STAY AWAY from these sorts of comments. It is for the AMERICAN PEOPLE to say that we feel he should be impeached, and many of us who have been able to get more information than just what the corporate M$M spins for us realize that this is a NECESSARY part of sticking to the laws of our country.

When people commit crimes, they should be dealt with THEN, not waiting for a term of power of whatever they are doing to expire!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. Right. And, rapists are going to die anyway, so why prosecute them?

Politics-as-usual is not only pathetic it's repugnant.

[ljm2002]

78. So, once someone gets the nomination...

...they are above criticism and their positions must be followed without question?

Sorry, not buying it.

And his position in this matter is just plain wrong.

Not that my opinion matters. Clearly, the media establishment and the Beltway gang has decided that anyone who wants less war, less prisoners, universal health care and some level of accountability for corrupt government and outright war crimes, is a leftist wacko.

I doubt I'm the only one who is getting angry about this bullshit.

We voted for change in 2006 and we didn't get it. And it seems we can look forward to more of the same with the next election. Especially with a "moderate" at the helm. Where "moderate" is defined as "takes a center-right position within the party, and then makes accommodations with the far-right thugs in the other party so that Fox News won't beat them up too badly." Except that Fox News, of course, beats them up the same way regardless, because that's what being a rabid rightist is all about.

Gad I'm so sick of it I could spit.

[Cleita]

79. So I guess treason, war crimes and pretty much what is a crime

syndicate ruling our country has become acceptable to our elected officials? I can see why Obama, who has his eyes on the Presidency, might not like impeachment because he too would be liable to it if he becomes President. However, he's wrong on this one. If he does become President the now corrupt and criminal GOP will be looking to impeach him from the day he takes the oath of office just like they did to Bill Clinton.

[stimbox]

83. One of the many reasons he didn't get my vote in the primary.

He's going to give them a

Just like Clinton did for the elder Bush.

[LWolf]

88. I don't stand with him on this. I will never stand with him on this.

The Constitution is not negotiable, and anyone who is willing to do so is not my "leader."

[librechik]

89. Really? Then why even include impeachment in the Constitution

Since it's so bloody useless, and we can never use it to address malpractice in office? If it isn't a remedy, why is it there?

BTW, elections have not been working as a remedy lately. BECAUSE WE CAN'T COUNT ON GETTING THE GUY WE VOTED FOR ACTUALLY IN THERE!!!

[malaise]

91. It may be

GO for criminal charges.

[Occam Bandage]

93. Obama is sane. Few Dems outside of Kucinich are actually pro-impeachment.

[EFerrari]

97. Really? Can you document that?

I've met thousands of Democrats who are in favor of impeachment and just in our little burg. Or, are you talking about party hacks and not Democrats?

[Occam Bandage]

98. Yes. Find me comments from any ten Senators claiming they're in favor of impeaching in 2008.

How about any forty Congressmen? I'm not asking for much; only 10% of the Congress.

[EFerrari]

102. The 9% approval Congress? That Congress?

You said Democrats. And with most Americans wishing Bush's tenure was over, thinking the country is going in the wrong direction and wanting out of Iraq and no on FISA, I believe I'm more than justified in saying that Congressional Democrats are out of touch with the American people.

I don't need to show you their support. You need to reflect on why they aren't attending to their constituents.

[Occam Bandage]

104. Yes. By "Democrats" I meant "Members of the Democratic National Committee."

As for "attending to their constituents?" Most Americans are against an immediate defunding to the war in Iraq. Most Americans are not in favor of completely eliminating FISA. While I haven't seen any polling lately, I highly doubt impeachment would crack the top five if people were asked what they would like to see Congress work on.

Congress has an extraordinarily low approval rating. However, that is not evidence that they need to do what the netroots wants any more than it is evidence that they need to do what the freepers want.

[EFerrari]

107. Netroots, my a$$. That's just a convenient way to further disenfranchise

voters. Well done for forwarding it!

And you are weaseling.

Most Americans want OUT of Iraq. Most Americans do not agree to immunity in the NEW FISA bill. And most Americans want Bush gone.

So, you can invoke our little freeper friends all you want and compare other Democrats to them. It doesn't obtain as much as it is revealing.

[Occam Bandage]

111. Yep. Most Americans don't want to stay in Iraq forever. However, that certainly

doesn't mean that they want to leave Iraq tomorrow. There is no one particular plan that most Americans are in favor of, besides the slow drawdown that cannot occur until a Democrat is in the White House (and which Obama has proposed).

Most Americans don't agree to the immunity clause, no. But at the same time, most Americans don't want to see the entire bill scuttled. Believe it or not, Obama's position is exactly where most Americans are--immunity is dumb, but the bill should pass.

Most Americans want Bush gone. At the same time, do most Americans want to see Congress spend the summer debating a futile impeachment to remove him a month early, instead of working on relief for skyrocketing gas and food prices, or on addressing the ongoing economic collapse? You'd have a hard time proving that one.

Only freepers and the liberal netroots have political revenge as their highest priority. And that's all that impeachment--and all that FISA telecom immunity--is about. Revenge. "Rule of law" is as convincing now as it was when the Republicans shouted it during their non-stop revenge efforts against Clinton--and as the Republicans found out, revenge on behalf of a loud and angry political minority is not a winning message.

[Two Americas]

154. utter nonsense

By this doctrine, none of us could ever advocate any policy that did not already enjoy the support of the general public. Any other opinions, you ridicule and attack as being "unrealistic" and what not.

All politics are always driven by small factions. Ridiculing people by using that is misleading. Your opinion represents a small faction, too, it just happens to be a small faction that has a lot of money and power behind it.

[Two Americas]

152. what a system

The right wing propaganda mills work up talking points, feed them to the media who then dumb down and steer the public, we listen to the public, then we follow the public, and anyone stepping out of line and objecting to that is attacked. All part of "being realistic" so "we" can "win."

Why bother with the public at all? Just contact the right wing think tanks, ask them what we should be doing, and follow that. Just ask them what the public is going to be thinking and we can adjust policy to that ahead of time. We could save a lot of trouble that way and then we would be very realistic and practical, not at all like those goofy paranoid netroots people you hate so much.

[Zhade]

143. You made the assertion. The burden of proof is on you, not the other poster.

NT!

[Super Soaker Sniper]

94. Finally, Some Sense From This Guy! n/t

[EFerrari]

95. Omfg, I really don't want to know this. n/t

[defendandprotect]

96. ". . .vote the bums out--" -- Did Obama miss election 2000 . . . 2004---??

Anyone who doesn't see the need for impeachment of Cheney/Bush worries me ---

a great deal!!

[EFerrari]

109. His campaign is saying he'll turn out the black vote AND

that election fraud isn't a problem at the same time. It makes me dizzy. :crazy:

[defendandprotect]

134. I didn't hear anything about that . . .

I'd agree with you on that if that's what they're saying ---

It was great during the primary to sense that he was bringing out new voters ---

especially YOUTH . . .

that's the way it should be going ---

Evidently, some are now getting a little gun-shy . . .


PLUS ... the GOP is highly fixated on the "African American/people of color" vote . . .

they always do find a way to seemingly cripple it ---

You would think Democrats would be on high alert to PROTECT those voters . . . if they

want to win?????

PLUS ... who could be confident that the GOP with the computers can't pull another steal????

[EFerrari]

135. Our elections are stolen on the backs of black voters.

It's pretty much that simple. Others are targeted, too, like students and military families because they move around a lot and are easy to manipulate. But, it's still mostly black voters who are denied their franchise.

I doubt the politicians will do any thing. We have to support election protection or practice saluting to McMore.

[defendandprotect]

136. We can see that over the last two years they did NOTHING in that regard . . .!!!

And pretty much ignored the investigations of harm done to A-A voters from 2000 on . ..

[AntiFascist]

99. I respectfully disagree with Sen. Obama...

that does not mean I'm going to suddenly start supporting McCain!

He is playing to the Center in order to increase his chances of getting elected, and letting the previous corrupt administration slide...a strategy which worked out very well for President Clinton, but in the long run, not for the American people.

[Brigid]

100. Obama is just waiting for the right moment to strike.

The first thing he'll do once he's in office will be to appoint the most competent AG he can find, and said AG will start digging. We will see justice done yet, and I think this is the most effective way to get it.

[Super Soaker Sniper]

106. I certainly hope not.

And I sincerely doubt that Obama would go route anyway.

[EFerrari]

108. Yeah, he'll use the leftover dry power from 2004.

I'm sorry. It's not credible.

[noamnety]

110. Oh sure.

I just know he's gonna change after I marry him!

[Occam Bandage]

112. No, he will not. No President has ever done that. None ever will, most likely.

[NNN0LHI]

113. You are probably right but it sure is nice to dream

All I care is we win in November and start righting this ship. That isn't going to be a fast process either. I am sure some will be going berserk over the pace. But this stuff can't be fixed overnight.

But I am now confident the Dems will control the White House and both houses of Congress by wide majorities next year.

I hope they can at least get us on the right track to get something done. I am pretty sure they will.

Don

[Occam Bandage]

114. "Start righting this ship" is paramount. When your ship is taking on water,

and you change out the captain, I would hope your new captain's biggest priority is not to spend all his time detailing exactly how the last captain stole strawberries from the mess hall, or watched pornography instead of studying sea maps or doppler radar printouts.

[GCP]

117. Dream on

We've been hearing that of every wrong-headed decision he's made in the last month.
"He's just waiting til he's in the WH - yada yada yada"
Not gonna happen.

[Zhade]

144. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Not holding my breath on THAT one.

[crickets]

115. Obama thinks war crimes are not grave or intentional enough breaches of presidential authority

for impeachment? Shredding the Constitution isn't grave or intentional enough? Treason isn't grave or intentional enough?

Well. Now we all know.

"Vote the bums out"?

Bush and Cheney can't be voted out. Their terms will expire and they will walk. They will walk free, their pockets fat with blood money, leaving thousands of U.S. soldiers dead and maimed and over a million Iraqis murdered, three countries in various states of ruin and the U.S. and world economies teering like Wile E. Coyote at the edge of a cliff clutching his tiny umbrella...

But, hey! Let's not get politically distracted. Wave that flag. Wave it wide and high.

[GCP]

116. So yet again Obama kicks the left under the bus

I'm getting might damn sick of this :grr:

[DailyGrind51]

118. "When are we going to take 'em on? When are we going to stand up to 'em?"

to paraphrase embarrassing drunk, John Boehner.

[Disturbed]

120. Once again the Dems have a choice between

Conservative & semi- Conservative. Sen. Obama is labeled as one of the "most Liberal" of Senators by the RWing yet he is not running as that now. The honeymoon is over.

[Zhade]

145. "What do we want?" "Change!" "When do we want it?" "Uh, later! Maybe!"

NT!

[JackDragna]

119. The only unacceptable thing..

..is how timid and meek Obama has become. Do you just "vote the bums out" when they violate civil rights? When they start illegal wars? When they out the identity of intelligence agents? When they spy on their citizens? When they practice rampant cronyism in government? When they mismanage disaster relief? Does anything constitute a crime worthy, in Obama's opinion, of being removed from office?

I'm done with Obama. Seriously. I'll probably still vote for the man, but he's a spineless stooge.

[moondust]

124. If not these guys then whom?

The Bush administration has committed the most impeachable acts in U.S. history.

No big deal. :sarcasm:

[exothermic]

125. He agrees with Pelosi. Interesting.

...

[pointblank]

126. I stand with Obama as well

Listen, I would love to see these "bums" get impeached and imprisoned, but I also agree that now is not the time to tie up all of those resources and waste more time on drawn out, distracting impeachment proceedings that, unfortunately, will not get us anything in the end except personal satisfaction - It certainly won't help the economy, get us out of Iraq or stop global warming.

Besides at leats 49% of Americans voted for this simpleton, twice...and some imbeciles continue to vote republicans into office, so I say we take this failure of a presidency as a harsh lesson and move forward - you know, Progressively! ;-)

[EFerrari]

140. Now is never the time. That's why those Iran Contra felons are still

in government today. That's how we got HERE.

[Zhade]

147. It really sucks to know that, and also know people ignore that fact out of fear.

NT!

[EFerrari]

149. Well, Bush has been killing us off for seven years.

I don't blame people for being afraid any more.

Hope things are good where you are.

[Solly Mack]

127. How refreshing and new

Iffen you gotta ask

[morgan2]

128. why im voting for nader

Although if I was in a state that might be close, I wouldnt be.

[debbierlus]

130. Obama isn't a progressive. He was my last choice, and those of us who realize this must just accept

Change can take time.

I accept that I must vote for Obama because there isn't anyone else. Do I like it? No. I am a progressive and I would much prefer Dennis Kucinich.

Impeachment is the remedy for a rogue, criminal President. Never in our nation's history has it been more important and pertinent a measure. It is deriliction of the duties of Congress to allow the Bush administration's crimes to go unchecked. And, for those who don't agree, remember that among those crimes is the MURDER of 1,000,000,000 people who have died in Iraq.

If that doesn't warrant impeachment (and criminal trial) then IMO, nothing will....

Between this statement and Obama's total lack of leadership on the FISA bill, I am losing the little enthusiam I had for Obama.

[MisterP]

131. "the SA and SS are not our enemy, the Führer is"

:crazy:

honk his horn, he's a Ford...

[warren pease]

132. Fine. Let's go straight to the Bugliosi solution...

Screw impeachment. Let's try the corrupt murdering bastard for murder and conspiracy.

Better yet, make that mass murder in honor of the 4,100-plus US military personnel who have died for this malevolent prick's bank accounts, and those of his profiteering cronies.

Even mo better, let's nail the entire criminal syndicate as co-conspirators and accessories before and after the fact.

And saving the best for last, conspiracy and Murder One with special circumstances for Cheney, Gonzales, Yoo, Addington, Rice, Rumsfeld, Hadley, Bolton, Rove, Mukasey and a few dozen more whose names escape me at the moment.

Just as long as the trials take place in a state that still has capital punishment. Like Texas.

There should be a special set of charges for Pelosi and Reid and Hoyer and a few more of the worst of the worst Bushie accomplices who infest the other faction of The Business Party.

That little "d" after their names is too small to hide behind. There must be laws against politicians fraudulently misrepresenting themselves as an alternative to the Bushies when in fact they couldn't wait to get back to DC to begin serving their corporate sugar daddies.

These swine all have at least one thing in common: they'd look great in orange.


wp

[Common Sense Party]

138. Can someone explain to me how we can impeach them AFTER they've left office?

[Zhade]

141. Yep. Letting criminals walk is the American way!

Sometimes I am so fucking disgusted with the cowardice in this country.

[mmonk]

153. Seig Heil

[orleans]

160. stupid fucking thing for him to say. n/t

[rucky]

161. He'd be smart to stay quiet about certain topics. n/t

[Horse with no Name]

162. 4 days before my best friend died of breast cancer

We sat down and had a long conversation. She was very spiritual and very religious.
She told me that she had searched and searched for an answer of why God was doing this and what she was supposed to learn.
After all she had been through, she admitted she had not learned anything...but finally figured out that the lesson was never intended for her. She went to grave believing that the reason she went through the torture that is breast cancer treatment was so that her experience could be used by the ones who knew and loved her.
It worked for me. I never miss my mammogram and I learned how to appreciate life a little more and love the ones closest to me more...and to make sure they know it.
As Americans...the lessons of Iran Contra and the Bush administration SHOULD have been to lead us away from all of the bad they did and be wary of empty promises and those that make them and seek to elect people into office that would uphold the Constitution.
We didn't learn the right lessons and now we are left with choices of horrible and just slightly better than horrible as our candidates for President which is why a growing number of the electorate--Democrats and Republicans alike--feel fear and trepidation at pulling the lever come November. No matter who redecorates the White House and no matter what pretty set of china that Lennox makes for the next First Lady...the average American is fucked.
I guess my question to the ones who thrust obama upon us is...did you NOT learn the moral of the story about the Pied Piper in the 1st grade?
I certainly did. Too bad it's a done deal. It's not going to end well for the majority of us.

[deacon]

163. Then when is impeachment acceptable Mr. Obama? Sheesh

This guy is a turkey. Obama and Pelosi will probably vote for McCain.

[JHB]

164. Impeachment is also part of "how our system is designed"

I'll be voting for Obabma -- the alternative is far worse -- but the criminality of Bush and the conservative/Republican Party needs to be exposed, "officially", not just by reporters relegated to the margins, and punished in ways that have teeth. It's going to have to draw blood, at least in the leagal sense.

Anything less won't do. That's not "shrillness" or "radicalism" talking, it's experience. "Anything less" has been tried repeatedly, and all it does is encourage them to leagalize their crimes. That's how Reagan did it, that's how Poppy Bush did it, and it hasn't exactly worked out too well for us and for the country, has it?

Don't piss on your powder, then tell me you need to keep it dry.

[TheWatcher]

167. "Posterity, you will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom!

"I hope you will make a good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent it in heaven that I ever took half the pains to preserve it."

-John Adams

I'm sorry we did not do better, John.

In the end, it was just deemed as unacceptable.

And Mr Adams, it might interest you to know that these days, War Crimes, Illegal Spying, and other treasonous acts, are now referred to as "shortcomings."

I hope your Repenting is going well.

[KoKo]

176. The Consitution and Bill of Rights....just could not hold. Globilization

and the Tech Revolution made it seem just a "piece of paper" to be tossed in the trash, while the "pretenders" rave on about how important it is to be Patriotic and the Churches tell people who to vote for.

It was too romantic to believe that either could hold.... America is but a blip in time. We've become an Empire...and as such will fall on our own swords, guns, bombs and nukes.

[blindpig]

168. This is change?

[Efilroft Sul]

169. The political problem with Presidential impeachments.

The Republicans so lowered the bar on impeachment with Clinton's zipper problems that the Democrats reacted in inverse proportion after 2006 to raise the bar so ridiculously high on what are impeachable offenses by a President. The Democrats had their opportunity to make their case, and Speaker Pelosi said it wasn't even worth the effort. Thanks, Nancy, for nothing. You are the biggest reason why the approval rating for Congress is 9%.

But back to what I think is Don's main point: We have to focus on winning in November. I don't like it that the Democrats didn't impeach Bush and Cheney, and I'm resigned to their eternal cowardice and infamy on the matter. But it's time to, ahem, move on. Just win, baby.

[KoKo]

177. What will we have Won? What's left? n/t

[Efilroft Sul]

178. Hopefully, a chance to set things right.

Of course, that will take some leadership, a quality which I will never accuse most politicians of having.

If things seem dark to you now, remember that it is in blackest night that the stars shine brightest.

[El Pinko]

170. ???

"I think its time to get with the program. The Republicans are our enemy. "

I get you up to this point...

"Not our Dem leaders in Congress."

Well, I don't consider them the enemy, but I don't consider them "my leaders". They are politicians. They work for US.


While I recognize that a presidential campaign is not the most brilliant time to push for impeachment of a lame duck, the wanton criminality of the Bush administration does need to be punished.

Here's hoping Obama will pursue every legal avenue against them once he takes office.

[SCBeeland]

180. If Obama doesn't care, why should I?

When it came down to just him and Clinton, I was excited as hell. I thought "finally, someone to vote for." But ever since Clinton dropped out, Obama's turned far, far to the right, waaaaay too far for me. Now he's just the lesser of two evils for me, and I've already played that game before with Kerry and Bill Clinton before him. So unless he makes a serious change, very soon, he can forget my vote. Being in Georgia, he could use my vote, but I'm sick and tired of just playing the game, so I won't play it anymore. I decide how I live, not these people in suits.