Southwest Airlines Strands Mentally Ill Children

[JimmyJubes]

Hooray for Southwest! They did it again. This time it wasn’t a catty power trip that kicked two girls off a plane and canceled their return flight. Why that is too easy.
This time they kicked off a woman whose mentally ill children were “disruptive”. Next they will throw a crying baby out the window. (Much to the delight of some losers who post on AOL)


The Story:
Wendy Slaughter was traveling with her four children and her five-months pregnant sister Friday on a Southwest Airlines flight from Detroit to Seattle.
One of Slaughter’s children has autism and she also has a daughter with cerebral palsy.
When the family landed in Phoenix they were met at the gate by police officers, detained and told they were too disruptive to get on their connecting flight to Seattle, Slaughter said.
Slaughter said they were left stranded at the Phoenix airport with no money and no lodging.
This was the first flight for the children. Slaughter admitted the children were loud and kept getting up and walking around the plane.
“The children were out of control on the flight you know, they were restless, excited and worked up and they are kids,” said Slaughter.
The family said flight attendants asked them to quiet the children twice, but they didn’t expect to be booted off the flight.
*****police officers bought them food and Motel 6 donated a hotel room for the night.
The children’s grandmother said she had to pay $2,000 to book last-minute tickets on Alaska Airlines. They said they didn’t have any problems on that three-hour flight.


So once again the Mighty Southwest proved that their lack of customer service is only matched by their heartlessness.
I hope that the Slaughter family sues for billions and that lawyers line up to help the family not fill their pockets. And I hope the public outcry is so loud that a boycott is in store. You see my cousin is autistic and I have a good reason to dislike and never fly southwest again.


Jimmy Jubes
www.jimmyjubes.com

[A-Schwarzenegger]

1. I predict 300 posts for this thread.

:*

[MilesColtrane]

2. Oh noes! Somebody on the internets is outraged.

If their mother and aunt were with them, then they weren't exactly stranded were they?

[JimmyJubes]

5. um

If the parents were stranded too does that alter the fact that the children were stranded?

[MilesColtrane]

14. Stranded is a pretty loaded word.

It can mean anything from 'left behind', which they certainly were, to 'being stuck somewhere unable to leave' which they were not.

They were left in an airport, not a desert isle.

[JimmyJubes]

52. Stranded is a pretty loaded word

That's Funny.
I did put the story up too --
But it's cool- anyone who listens to jazz probably gets rattled easily. (Just joking)

[JimmyJubes]

208. The people have spoken and scared mighty Southwest

http://www.wgal.com/family/16819061/detail.html?rss=lan&psp=nationalnews

Yes because of the backlash by compassionate human beings Southwest Airlines issued a statement and excuse why they didn't refund the money for the flight.
However I believe they still should be sued so this doesn't happen to anyone else.
Good thing the authorities who are probably sick of Southwest yelling Security everytime they have a difficult customer service situation (like that Mad Burger King skit) were on the family's side.

I know there were a couple of really sickening selfish posts but hey in the end the majority of people aren't the drunken idiots who have nothing to do but post moronic comments.
In the end Americans are good people who do the right thing.
Now let's do right by our country and elect the Obama/Clinton ticket.

[LostinVA]

3. NONE of the children were mentally ill

There's even some doubt the 10-year-old boy is autistic -- the woman said something different in an earlier interview.

The only way Southwest was out of line is that they should have put the family up in a hotel for the night. It's neither fair nor safe to allow such disruptive behavior by older children on a plane. These weren't infants or toddlers.

Even the mother said they were out of control, so goodness knows how bad it really was.

And no, I don't dislike kids. AND YES, I AM PERSONALLY FAMILIAR WITH HOW KIDS WITH BOTH AUTISM AND CP act.

[JimmyJubes]

11. We sort of agree

But I think Southwest has a habit of playing God and not working things out-- as well as not having a heart or customer service if you don't think they need to have a heart.

They should have refunded the money and put them up. And that is if it wasn't an exagerated "threat" which I believe law enforcement officials are getting tired of this with Southwest. We do have real threats you know.
Also they should have told them they were going to kick them off the plane.

That said it was handled in a despicable manner.

[Catchawave]

29. If you posted a reliable link to this story....

They did get a refund and passengers remarked how the crew tried to resolve every method in letting the family complete this trip.

Nothing despicable about that.

[JimmyJubes]

206. It was because of the outcry that the did that

It happened after the fact.
Actually that is the latest news so I believe you might have even lied when you posted this.
I don't see a link from you -- mine was copied directly from AOL news which got it from the Dallas station.

[Parche]

156. FAA Regulations

They are strict, and have nothing to do with '9/11'

The captain of the aircraft has final say on who flies

I have seen disruptive children on lots of flights, and the parents are at fault
It is not fair to the other passengers if your child is disruptive, screaming, running around the aisles, the parents need to discipline them.
:hi:

[lynettebro440]

159. Did you happen to actually see the interview

oh these people were right off the slow bus of ignorance. I bet the plane erupted in applause after they took them off.

[bobbolink]

168. To call someone with cerebral palsy "mentally ill".. is waaaay over the line.

You're right, if that's what you're getting at.

Ignorance is a killer.

[bluestateguy]

4. It comes down to protecting the many verses protecting the few

Airplanes are cramped quarters. Tickets are too expensive as it is. The airlines have been cutting back on services and amenities since 9/11. Flight attendants today are curt and mediocre, unlike in the old days of air travel.

Is it too much to ask for some modicum of peace and quiet in the cabin during the flight?

Bad behavior is bad behavior. No whining and excuses.

[JimmyJubes]

6. I think

It should come down to human decency and common sense.

[slackmaster]

103. Human decency includes keeping some reasonable control over your childrens' behavior

Good grief.

[Ilsa]

15. "Is it too much to ask for some modicum of peace and quiet in the cabin during the flight? "

Yes. You are in a public place. Your flight on a public aircraft isn't guaranteed to be quiet or pleasurable for you. If you want peace and quiet, drive yourself. You don't have the right to not be offended or not be inconvenienced on a public flight. You are paying for transportation; your vacation starts after you arrive at your destination.

Count your blessings. This woman and her kids have more mountains to climb than you could imagine, and more difficult than Mt Everest.

[silverojo]

21. Flights ARE supposed to be peaceful and quiet

And people DO have the right to be offended by unfit parents letting their kids run wild.

Secondly, not everybody flies because they're on "vacation". Many people are business travelers, who have come to expect and deserve a peaceful flight.

P.S. -- If you want to let your kids scream like animals, THAT'S the time to drive yourself. The whole world isn't supposed to cater to parents who can't control their kids.

Considering that their next three-hour flight went without incident, it's crystal-clear that Mommy did manage to keep the kids quiet. Disabled kids need limits to be healthy, just as much as other children do.

And please don't tell me about mountains to climb--my whole life has been a living hell of medical problems. But my mother always saw to it that I was well-behaved in public, and I thank her for it.

[Ilsa]

23. Would you demand the person in the wheelchair get out of it to fly?

Of course not. Autistic kids have this disability. It is physicl. It isn't the result of inadequate parenting.

No, you do not have the right to not be offended in the public arena. Get yourself some stinking earplugs.

[silverojo]

35. To answer your question

A person in a wheelchair is capable of boarding the plane, sometimes needing assistance, and it's a very different kind of disability. Not as many people in wheelchairs have the kind of emotional problems that autistic kids have, so most wheelchair-bound folks can go out in public and interact without problems.

I was in a wheelchair during my early adulthood, and I still have a handicapped parking permit and have to use electric "mart carts" to go grocery shopping...so please don't even TRY to pretend that you have more understanding of that situation than I do.

If, however, a wheelchair-bound person disrupted the whole flight by screaming and shouting, then of course that person would be removed from the plane!

Autistic kids vary widely in their behavior. The "uncontrollable" autistic child in question behaved during the second flight, so you know that 1) he WAS capable of behaving, and 2) the mother finally did her job and kept him and the other kids quiet.

I never said autism was the result of inadequate parenting. I said that the mother of an autistic child shouldn't be subjected to something like a flight, unless she knew for sure her autistic child could handle it. Quit twisting my words to suit your agenda.

An airplane is NOT a public arena, but a privately-owned transportation service. And nobody should have to get earplugs because a mother won't make her kids behave (in so many similar cases, there's nothing wrong with the child at all).

The plight of other passengers aside, if a child has a disorder that affects his behavior so adversely, subjecting him/her to the torment of a long flight is a terrible thing for a mother to do.

[Pastiche423]

183. NO ONE IS WHEELCHAIR "BOUND"

Your ignorance in using that idiotic term negates anything that follows.

It also insults every person that uses a wheelchair.

[MilesColtrane]

24. Yes, no one's guaranteed a pleasurable flight,

but, passengers are entitled to the safest possible flight that can be provided by the carrier.

In the event of turbulence you shouldn't have to be worried about getting hit in the teeth by a three year old flying through the cabin.

[bluestateguy]

30. And there you have it

Take no responsibility for one's actions. Shift the blame to the people who followed the rules on the airplane.

How American!

[Ilsa]

34. If you have a solution for teaching autistic children, then please share

it with the rest of us, you know, the parents, doctors, speech therapists, occupational therapists, psychiatrists, teachers with masters degrees in special education, counselors with ABA specialties. If you have the answer to their behavior problems, then please, fucking illuminate the rest of us dealing with this or working with it every day. If you have the answer, then you should market it! How American!

[PA Democrat]

151. Hugs to you Ilsa.

I think a lot of people would be much happier if we were back in the days where our autistic children were locked up in institutions where no one had to see them or be made uncomfortable by their behaviors.

[JimmyJubes]

41. Side with the Fascists who play God

How UnAmerican.

Did you just like insult our whole country to make a point?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

47. Try "Hitler!"

[ProdigalJunkMail]

127. see post #90...Hitler has arrived... n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

128. No, that's "Hilter".

:*

[ProdigalJunkMail]

129. just damn...

[exothermic]

146. I'm not comfortable with the idea of reducing everyone's life experience to match that of the most

miserable. I guess some think it's a good idea, though.

[silverojo]

17. People with special-needs children need to be more sensible

If you have kids with behavioral problems, taking them onto an airplane with a large group of strangers isn't going to make their behavior better.

What's heartless is that this woman knowingly subjected her kids to this...and subjected all these other paying passengers to the racket her kids made.

It's a parent's responsibility to determine whether or not their kids are capable of behaving as expected in a situation. If the kids aren't mentally capable of this, then it's wrong to subject them to an experience that they can't handle.

The whole world can't revolve around one mother who made a really bad decision.

Oh, wait--TWO bad decisions. She didn't even have enough money to stay in a hotel; flights are often delayed, so you have to be prepared for such an emergency expense.

When kids have special needs, either drive them yourself (so you can pull over every so often and take time to care for those needs), or just stay home.

And yes, I practice what I preach. Given my own myriad health problems, I rarely travel. And when I must travel long distances, I go by car so that I can tend to my health needs. I sure as hell wouldn't take a plane, and expect the staff and other passengers to cater to my particular problems.

I'm really tired of stupid people disrupting flights for whatever reason, then expecting sympathy when the staff does its duty by restoring peace for the other passengers.

[Ilsa]

18. What you suggest is probably what she has

always done, but this trip was too long for a car trip for the kids.

We haven't taken our son anywhere beyond 150 miles because of this. I take a vacation, without the hubby and kids, about once every three years. I'm lucky to get four days off every three fucking years.

Is it too much to ask passengers to put some earplugs in for three hours so this family can go see other family once in a blue moon?

[silverojo]

39. I'm afraid so.

There is nothing obligating other people to purchase earplugs for the sole purpose of avoiding the noise of one group of children.

What's next? Should I request that everyone in my area stop making noise outdoors just because I'm hit with another severe bout of insomnia that medication won't touch, because my fibromyalgia (just ONE of my problems) is flaring up? People have to live and drive and work and mow their lawns. *I'm* the one who must adapt, by using a fan to create white noise in my bedroom. It's my disability, my burden--not theirs. And I'd be selfish and unreasonable to expect otherwise.

I'm sorry, but the world can only go so far to help accomodate those of us with limitations. What you're asking of people is too much.

[Common Sense Party]

91. I guess the family needs to charter a private plane.

That's what we've come to.

[Freddie Stubbs]

83. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

[JimmyJubes]

188. Yeah like putting up with the less fortunate

outweighs the needs of a special needs family.
Some people in this forum really are selfishly stupid.

[uppityperson]

7. "Mentally ill"?

[lumberjack_jeff]

198. Very poor choice of words. n/t

[ben_meyers]

8. It would help if you linked to a reliable source for the story

instead a questionable website.

[JimmyJubes]

12. while you were sleeping

They invented google

[LostinVA]

13. Not to mention cerebral palsy and austism aren't mental illnesses

[begin_within]

9. They should never have left them at the airport like that. Instead,

at the first sign of trouble, they should have asked the entire family to leave the plane immediately.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

10. I saw those poor little children on TV and all they needed

was a little candy and soda pop to calm them down.

[my2sense]

16. Thank you Southwest

Why should all passengers be made miserable because a parent cannot/will not control their kids. It's ridiculous. I've been on flights with out of control kids and it's not a pretty picture. Perhaps folk will start parenting again if they know this type of behavior will not be tolerated.

[Ilsa]

22. You need to read up on autism. It is becoming more prevalent.

Autistic kids have a hard time controlling their emotional state and behavior, even when parents have psychiatric training or use Applied Behavior Analysis. This wasn't a parenting issue, but an issue of the kids getting stimulated ffrom the crowd and excitement. Drugs can sometimes be used, but that is a tricky business, especially for autistic children.

I know about this stuff. I am a RN, mother of an autistic 11 year old who can't always manage his emotions and behavior. We haven't taken him more than 150 miles from home because of his behavior poblems. ubby and I take separate vacations. Mine is four days off, every three fucking years. Is it too much to ask passengers to put some earplugs in for three hours so this family can go see other family once in a blue moon?

No one has the right to not be offended or inconvenienced when on public transportation. Get over it and use the earplugs.

On Edit: Would you demand that the person in the wheelchair get out and walk on the plane to make your boarding easier? These kids' minds are in wheelchairs. It is a physical condition.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3578292&mesg_id=3578292

[tigereye]

32. thank you Ilsa

:hug: to you and your family...

[Ilsa]

36. Thank you for understanding. You are only about one in ten with a real

liberal's heart.

[tigereye]

37. wow- that's nice of you to say...

I know a lot of parents who have these types of experiences, so it has made me more sensitive, or at least I try to be.


:blush:



I wish we could all live in a society where people are for the most part tolerant of each other's needs.

[EFerrari]

43. Ilsa. It's so good to see you here.

How is your summer going?

After I figured out that unstructured time in crowds made Doug flip, I couldn't go on vacation any more. At all. It was too risky. He was just like those kids only 6'5" and 300 lbs. It was hard to give up my vacations!

Hope everyone is doing well. :hi:

[my2sense]

72. What About Other Passengers

I don't need to read upon anything. I as a paying customer have a right to travel in peace. I'm sure there are many methods available to assist parents with special needs children when traveling so that their travel does not come at the expense of other passengers. While my heart goes out to any parent with special needs children, it is no excuse for allowing your children to terrorize the other paying passengers. Why do people feel that others should tolerate this type of behavior? Why would I expect a person in a wheelchair to walk - they are not disrupting peace on the plane.

[slackmaster]

117. Their right to travel in peace is nothing compared to their right to travel in safety

Unruly kids running up and down the aisles on a plane are a threat to the safety of everyone on board.

[JimmyJubes]

171. don't you

have to yell at some kids on your lawn?

[SteelPenguin]

78. they were running around the cabin in the aisles

By their own admission they weren't even in their seats but roaming the cabin, when the seat belt sign was on. Other witnesses on the plane said the parents were doing NOTHING to get the kids back in their seats.

If your 11 year old autistic son, unbuckled his seat belt on a plane, climbed over you (I'm assuming you'd be in the aisle seat) and then started running up and down the aisle screaming, would you just sit there and say "well he's autistic" to the flight attendant or would you secure him back in his seat?

This wasn't a matter of just loud kids. They were were up and roaming about the cabin and totally out of control. It was a safety issue for the other people on the plane, and a liability issue for Southwest.

Not every parent is as good as you are. You know this, I'm sure. The accounts I've read have not painted the mother and aunt here in a good light.

[slackmaster]

124. The safety aspect seems to be completely lost on the "I'm so compassionate" crowd

:nuke:

[northzax]

185. and does autism now affect other children?

because there were three children running up and down the aisles, according to other passengers. So let's give a pass to the one with autism, and assume the one with cp wasn't involved, that leaves two perfectly 'normal' kids out of control. Since they behaved on the alaska flight, they could obviously take direction. Do they get a pass, too?

[Clark2008]

69. I'd like to wake my one-year-old early from a nap and sit

next to you in a public place while she wails.

Sorry - people with absolutely no idea about the will of young children (especially those with developmental difficulties like the children in the story above) deserve to have your peace assaulted.

Geesch.

[my2sense]

71. How very mature of you

As a parent I am fully aware of the behavior of children. My children were never ALLOWED to act a fool and infringe upon other people's peace. Obviously you are in need of parenting skills.

[JimmyJubes]

189. you are a parent?

That makes it even worse. I am not a parent but I feel very sorry for your kids.

[my2sense]

202. No Need

My children are fine and were never allowed to infringe on other peoples rights. When they mis-behaved I quickly removed them from a situation. If they were not ready for a particular activity - they were not forced to endure it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

195. I really wish I could be ignorant again.

You remind me of how much fun it was being judgemental and ignorant in equal measure.

Free tip: if you meet my autistic son and I in the grocery store, don't try to explain to me how a "good parent" doesn't let their children "act a fool". I guarantee, it's the best piece of advice you'll get all day.

[my2sense]

203. Because I think ALL Passengers

If a child "special needs" or not is going to fly, parents with knowledge of their children's issues should prepare and do what is necessary to control/restrain their child....it's very simple.

[lumberjack_jeff]

207. You're attempting to show how not-ignorant you are by explaining how "very simple" it is...

... to someone who KNOWS that it is not simple at all.

[my2sense]

212. Yeh - Whatever

Stop using excuses and expecting everyone else to deal with your situation.

[NashVegas]

210. Air Travel Is an Option - It's Not a Right

The average person who gets on an airplane (that's not bound to or from Orlando) expects to have a relatively calm trip with mature people. Most of us, at one time or another, have the experience of sitting next to someone with an unhappy infant or toddler and accept there's not much that can be done about it. Eventually, they usually quiet down.

The travelers in this story did not disrupt merely the one or two people in their immediate area for a short time, but the entire freaking flight.

It's unfortunate there's no Chuck E. Cheese airline.

[PA Democrat]

155. I have a child with autism. I feel Southwest was within their rights to

remove the family from the flight. No child should be running uncontrolled throughout an airplane.

However....

I find the attitude that the parents weren't somehow controlling their child troubling. You obviously are CLUELESS about the challenges of raising a child with autism. I pray you never find yourself in that situation and have to put up with heartless remarks like many have made here.

My family has given up MANY typical family activities over the years because we were concerned about how our daughter would behave. We have worked diligently to help her deal with being in public. It's excruciatingly difficult work and we were fortunate because our child is higher functioning than many children with autism. But still, there were times when despite our careful planning, she had behavior issues. That's the tough thing about autism, you can't always predict what may set the child off. It's not about parents not controlling their kids. It's that the child's brain is wired very differently from a typical child's brain.

[my2sense]

157. Accountability

My heart goes out to any parent with special needs children - I imagine it is a very difficult position to be in, but our society has rules and one must teach their children to obey such rules - whether special needs or not. There are consequences for actions...or at least there used to be in our society. Other paying passengers should not be subjected to ANYONE being unruly or endangering others on a flight. Perhaps she needed more assistance or perhaps her children are not ready to fly, either way, she is responsible for the behavior of her children.

[PA Democrat]

160. I suggest you do some reading about autism.

Your ignorance of the disorder should embarrass you.

[my2sense]

161. No - folk that

cannot find a way to control their children are the ones that should be embarrassed.

[PA Democrat]

162. So autism, which is a behavioral disorder, is a result of bad parenting?

Wow.

[my2sense]

163. Is that what you read?

Please don't put words in my mouth. I said parents are responsible for the behavior of their children - is this something we can agree upon?

edited to correct spelling.

[PA Democrat]

166. Dealing with problem behaviors in a child with autism is COMPLETELY different

than dealing with problem behaviors in a neurotypical child. I have raised both a child with autism and a "typical" child. Raising a typical child is a walk in the park compared to dealing with autism.


You said, "Perhaps folk will start parenting again if they know this type of behavior will not be tolerated."



If correcting problem behaviors were a simple matter of taking responsibility I could have foregone the tens of thousands of dollars spent on ABA therapy, the thousands of hours that I worked with my daughter to teach her the most basic skills, the hours of research, of advocacy, the mounds of data I took to determine the purpose of a behavior and whether our planned intervention was successful at changing the behavior.


There are ways to diminish the behaviors in a child with autism, but it takes months and sometimes YEARS to teach a single alternate behavior. Yes, we parents are responsible for teaching our children to behave appropriately as best as we can, and within the constraints of the severity of the child's autism. But attitudes such as yours reread your posts and some of the others on this thread) are condescending and arrogant. I am not alone in that assessment.

[my2sense]

167. Truce

Again, my heart goes out to the countless hours and energy it must take to properly deal with this issue and I'm blessed not to have children with this type of problem.

I don't mean to be condescending or arrogant - I just think the rights of EVERYONE should be observed.

[woo me with science]

173. Three out of the four children were not autistic. nt

[PA Democrat]

177. Look, I am not going to judge this woman. I have personally been

subjected to remarks over the years when I have had my child with autism in public. And anyone who personally knows me will tell you that I am an excellent parent. I challenge ANYONE making the snarky holier-than-thou remarks to raise a child with autism without experiencing situations in public where your child has an unforeseen meltdown. And here's another clue for the many clueless here, having a child with autism affects the ENTIRE family and sometimes the other kids, especially when they are young, act out to gain the parents' attention.

But obviously many here feel the need to lord their superiority as parents over the people who face extreme challenges every day raising a child with autism. If that's what floats your boat, go for it. Just pray you never have to walk a mile in that woman's shoes.

[woo me with science]

205. Wow.

That was quite a little tantrum in response to a nine-word statement of fact.

I have written in other threads that I think all of you on your high horses (yes, I used the term before you did) on both sides of this are making yourselves look absolutely ridiculous.

You are acting as silly as those on the other side who think they know this mother by how she dressed. You obviously want to use autism as a trump card. In reality, autism is only one possible variable in this incident, and maybe not an important one at all. Believe it or not, it is just as possible for parents of autistic children to act like idiots as parents of typically developing children.

Guess what? You weren't on the plane either, but that obviously does not stop you from making up scenarios out of wholecloth. There is absolutely no evidence that anyone had an "autistic meltdown." On the contrary, the news reports I have read say that all four kids were running and roughhousing in the aisle.

I guess it is easier to make things up when you have an agenda. You really need to calm down and realize that other scenarios are possible too. These arguments and the huffing and puffing that result just amaze me.

[PA Democrat]

229. Try reading my response. Try reading many of the judgmental remarks on this thread.

Consider that newspapers are infamous for misreporting stories, for leaving out pertinent information. That's why I stated I wouldn't judge her as many here have.

People ARE judging this woman without knowing all of the facts. Do you think it is a coincidence that there are numerous parents of kids with autism on this and other threads regarding this story who had a similar reaction to mine to some of the comments made about that mother? We have ALL been in situations where our parenting skills have been unfairly judged because of our kid's autism. I don't want sympathy, but I would like to raise people's awareness of the challenges facing a family raising a child with autism. I sincerely hope that maybe instead of sitting back and judging that people would offer assistance when they see a situation like this one. I've experienced understanding and kindness from strangers who realized that my daughter had a disability and it really meant a lot to me. Kindness costs us nothing.

There is a real misunderstanding by many posters here about what autism is and how it affects children and their siblings. As I said, pray you never have to walk a mile in her shoes.

[woo me with science]

230. I think you would raise more awareness

and get more people to think about your perspective if you admitted in your comments that others might have a point, too, instead of accusing anyone who even mentions a possibly conflicting point of being an insensitive jerk. Some of the people here are still trying to sort through this, but you act as though you were on the plane and they weren't.

People dislike bad parenting on airlines, with good reason. You should realize that you are asking a lot when you want people to dismiss the eyewitness descriptions of what happened and assume that the reporting is inaccurate. You are asking even more when you want them then to accept your version of what happened instead, as though you were on the plane, and as though this woman could not possibly have done anything wrong simply by virtue of having a child with this diagnosis. You want them to accept that autism is AUTOMATICALLY the single most important variable in this situation, even when their common sense and the reporting in a newspaper suggests to them that you may be wrong.

If you doubt the published accounts, you should be clear about that, but it would help to acknowledge that the published accounts sound bad. It would help to clarify that you are not saying that anything goes on an airplane just because of an autism diagnosis. I think people see and resent an implication that EVEN the printed accounts (children running up and down the aisles, mother doing nothing, and the airline being blamed for not wanting living projectiles in the aisles) would be acceptable if the child were autistic, just because the child is autistic.

Being insulted on top of everything annoys them even more.

I think everyone has a point here underlying all the hysteria. People have had it up to here with being told to excuse inexcusable behavior in public...so they will not give an inch. You want people to understand the challenges that mothers of autistic children face...so you will not give an inch either.

Too bad a discussion with so many important facets to it had to deteriorate into the typical DU flamefest.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

231. PLEASE STOP

being sane and reasonable.
It is upsetting.
I look forward to more of your posts.

[PA Democrat]

232. I stated in a post that I agreed with Southwest's decision.

Guess you missed that before you rushed to judge my intentions. As I stated here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3578558#35833

my objections were to the way people judged the mother when they clearly did not understand what autism is.

A number of other parents raising children with autism made the same points. We have all been subjected to the dirty looks, the condescending remarks by others when we are doing everything we possibly can to control our child. It makes a very difficult situation even more stressful.

It was apparent in reading some of the posts that many people don't realize that children with autism don't generalize skills across different settings, that children with autism often have severe receptive language deficits, that behavior problems in siblings of children with autism are common, that children with autism can become overstimulated and hyperactive in new settings.

As someone who has more experience than most in dealing with the media, I take ANYTHING I read in the paper with a grain of salt.

But ignorance of all of the facts of this story did not prevent people from rushing to judge the mother. She was called selfish, mentally ill, was determined to be a lazy and unfit parent. Some people even accused the woman of making up the child's diagnosis.

I am asking that people refrain from rushing to judgment when they perhaps do not have all of the facts, because I know from first hand experience that it does happen. If you "resent" my point of view and view my remarks as insults, perhaps you need to go back and read your OWN comments as well as some of the other posters on this thread.

This woman may be a HORRIBLE parent for all I know, but I can't help but feel a little bit of compassion for anyone trying to raise a child with autism. It is extremely difficult. Maybe we could show some compassion for people in difficult circumstances instead of rushing to denigrate them.

[PA Democrat]

234. Correction to link provided:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3578558&mesg_id=3583391

[JimmyJubes]

187. I think Jazzy has Autism

Because he/she can't comprehend it's something parents really can't control.
Definitely bad parenting definitely bad parenting.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

190. Tell me you dont mean to insult Jazzy by saying you think he/she "has Autism".

That would bring this thread to a full circle, or a figure 8
or something. Ironicalistic parallelogram.

[JimmyJubes]

191. um

okay

[A-Schwarzenegger]

192. Astonishing. You've convinced me you don't know what youre saying.

:*

[my2sense]

215. No Jazzy does not have autism

she simply thinks everyone's rights should be respected. There are drugs that control behaviors in most disorders and I suspect there are drugs that could have been used in this case had the mother known her child and prepared for a long flight. From what I've read the adults were somewhat out of control as well.

Can't believe the insult.....I don't appreciate you making "fun" of anyone with disorders.

[JimmyJubes]

218. you are right

Didn't mean to insult the autistic by calling you autistic

[A-Schwarzenegger]

220. You surpass yourself.

:eyes:

[PA Democrat]

233. There are no FDA approved drugs for the treatment of autism.

Individuals with autism vary greatly in their reaction to any given drug. Finding any drug or combination of drugs to alleviate the most severe symptoms of autism may take months, years, if at all. We quit trying after several rounds of medication trials because the side effects were worse than the symptoms we were trying to treat.

Some drugs which calm a typical person may exacerbate the symptoms of autism in some individuals. While many children with autism are hyperactive, very few respond well to drugs used to treat ADHD. One top researcher that saw my child told me the positive response rate to ADHD drugs was in the single digits for kids with autism.

Medicating a child with autism should NEVER be attempted without help from a doctor experienced in treating people with autism. OTC medications that may calm a typical child cause some kids with autism to become extremely agitated and irritable and any prescription drug use for children with autism must be carefully monitored by a doctor as many of the most commonly prescribed drugs can have dangerous side effects.

[lumberjack_jeff]

197. That is what you said.

Are the parents of deaf children responsible for the behavior that results from being unable to hear instructions?

And don't tell me it's different. They are directly analagous.

Parents are not responsible for behavior that the child in incapable of avoiding.

My hope for you is that you forever have the luxury of remaining as ignorant as you currently are.

[JimmyJubes]

199. Right

Unbelievable because everyone I know even heartless rightwingers say it was despicable what Southwest did.
I think some people in this forum drink too much or something.

[RainDog]

228. You remind me

of the jerk offs who told me I was spoiling my son b/c sometimes he would "fall apart" emotionally when he was a toddler. That was before he was dx'd as autistic and, I learned, his behavior was a result of sensory overload.

what did I do in those situations? I did remove my child. I wrapped my arms around him, without knowing I "should" do this, to help to reintegrate his sensory perceptions as much as possible. But sometimes such things would happen when I couldn't remove him. But because I didn't hit him or punish him for something that was, frankly beyond his control, I was judged by the assholes who have NEVER had to live with such a situation.

I cannot comment on this situation in particular because I don't know what was going on exactly. However, I can say that I have run into so many people like you who have children who do not have special needs and your self-righteousness is repulsive. That's what you are teaching your children, too. Great job there.

[SheilaT]

19. "The children were out of control on the flight

you know, they were restless, excited and worked up and they are kids".

These sorts of stories tend to come down to one person's rights versus another person's rights. Do the other passengers have a right to fly without disruptive passengers, regardless of age or mental status? Do passengers with any sort of disability have an unrestricted right to fly?

Oh, and I'd guess that Southwest is no worse than any other airline about enforcing rules and standards.

[JimmyJubes]

20. Well I guess everyone who is selfish and heartless

might not be a republican afterall.

[silverojo]

26. You're selfish and heartless toward the other passengers

You can't let your kids use an airplane as a jungle gym and expect not to face consequences. You'll notice the mother got her brood under control for the second flight. In other words, she finally straightened up and acted like a parent for a change.

There's nothing selfish and heartless about expecting someone to be a competent parent. Paying to go on a plane is like joining a forum to post: It's privately owned, so there's no public right to be on either. You must abide by the terms of the private owners, or you're kicked out. If you can't abide by those terms, then you shouldn't try to get on the forum (or plane) in the first place.

The whole point is, she was just being selfish and lazy by not keeping her kids under control. She even admits they were unruly. Her kids were obviously mentally capable of behaving themselves, or else there would have been an incident on the second flight. What's really revolting is that she's using the kids' disabilities as an excuse for her own behavior.

Making disabled kids a scapegoat for your own lousy decisions is truly despicable.

[tigereye]

33. how can you call someone "selfish and lazy" - without knowing anything

about them?

:shrug:


I am stunned by this judgmental and unkind statement - it's these kinds of comments that astound me when I read DU anymore.

[JimmyJubes]

38. Ha ha ha that is halarious

I wasn't on the plane. If I was I would have been like I am sure a lot of other passengers. Sympathizing with the poor lady. Not like Southwest.

I guess it has to happen to you first before you all realize how selfish you are.

I hope that it never happens that you have children who are disabled- or some major corporation throws gasoline on that fire--
I hope you never have to deal with paying 2000 extra and spend time rebooking a flight worried about where you are going to stay for the night.
I hope you just realize it --

I can't believe some of the things I a reading
Sad but it sort of reminds me of some of my right wing friends after Katrina.

Some of the same things said too.

[krabigirl]

42. If you don't want to deal with kids on planes, get a private jet. Planes are like buses.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

49. There's one little difference between a bus and a plane.

:*

[sakura]

60. You've never witnessed someone getting thrown off a bus for bad behavior?

[high density]

75. Exactly

If the kids are uncontrollable than she should not take them on airplanes to begin with. The parents are to blame here and they should be responsible. Unfortunately "responsible" is not an adjective that one can use to describe some parents.

I'll never understand why half of DU wants to give people excuses for crap like this.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. I agree that people who disagree with me are selfish and heartless.

:*

[MilesColtrane]

28. Yes, it's not that we disagree with you, it's that we are evil, heartless, baby-haters.

:eyes:

[stray cat]

66. Clearly you either don't fly much or fly first class to see no nuance in the story

[Catchawave]

25. Mentally ill ?

...well, maybe the mother :shrug:

I have a mentally "challenged" adult child, and we've never had a problem with "behavior" on public transportation, or I'd yank him off myself.

Thank you Southwest !

[kiva]

31. Southwest did the right thing.

Children OR adults who won't remain in their seats are putting themselves and others at risk--try having someone land in your lap sometime who was in the aisle when the plane hit turbulence.

Two adults are traveling with four children on a connecting flight with no money? And before anyone says they were too poor, grandma could have fronted them some in-case-of-an-emergency cash, since she managed to pay an additional $2000 for new tickets.

Mom says she was asked twice to control her children, but didn't expect to be kicked off the plane? Translation: she didn't think anyone would do anything if she didn't comply.

These children couldn't be controlled, yet managed to do just fine the next day on another flight--perhaps mom and auntie spent some time explaining consequences?

I suspect Southwest will get enough business from this incident to make up for anyone who chooses to boycott them.

(edit for grammar)

[JimmyJubes]

40. Once again

I heard the same things said by heartless Rightwingers after Katrina that I am reading now
Guess we aren't all that different.
Sad

[EFerrari]

45. People are mostly clueless about autism.

Explain consequences, my granny.

Speaking of which, I'm happy that mother had someone she could call for help. Hard enough to deal with the situation without being stuck in a strange city with nothing on top of it all. A$$holes.

[kiva]

46. Hyperbole much?

You are honestly trying to compare the vicious statements made by some people to the tragedy of Katrina, an event that led to an unofficial estimate of 4000 deaths and many thousands more homeless, to what's been said here about two women and four children left at an airport in Phoenix, an airport with food and water, no one threatening to shoot them as looters?

[EFerrari]

48. No, the comparison is to the lovely, compassionate responses

on this thread which, iirc, are very similar to many lovely, compassionate responses on our Katrina threads which lambasted poor black people up one side and down the other for living in New Orleans when the levees broke -- because, you know, they should have been able to hold them together with spit since the Army Corp of Engineers couldn't.

I remember those threads fondly.

[JimmyJubes]

50. Exactly

I am not comparing the situations or the magnatude of the events. I am comparing the statements, the selfish mindsets that people have because it isn't them.
as far as threads about Katrina -- I wasn't here but I know that anyone who actually reflected would not have posted such a post.
Thanks again

[cboy4]

54. Don't forget all of the "compassionate" responses in the

California wildfire threads from people who say people whose homes burn up should know better than to live in the forest.

Yea, all of them live in the forest. :eyes:

[JimmyJubes]

76. I wasn't here then either

But I think their are a lot more right wingers here than most would think. Because I know a conservative host said that it was only liberals houses that were burning or something.
Hard to believe that some of these heartless idiots in this forum are not right wingers who listen to hate radio and hate tv.

[high density]

77. Stay off of the aircraft if you can't control your children

Simple as that. If they have medical issues then that is sad, but it doesn't mean the rest of the passengers should be forced to put up with their antics.

My compassion stops when people start taking advantage of the situation to the detriment of my own person. There are two sides to the "me me me" equation and these oblivious parents have plenty of that in them.

[JimmyJubes]

79. As I said very selfish

You probably get mad when a person in can't get their money out fast enough for you to go home and yell at the kids crossing your lawn.

[high density]

80. It's very selfish of parents to let their kids made a scene

The parents often learn how to ignore their kids much to the detriment of the strangers around them.

If the kids are out of control for whatever reason and can't be controlled then they should not be going on airplanes to begin with.

[LeftishBrit]

88. 'Let' their kids make a scene?

With an autistic child, it may be impossible to prevent them from doing so. We're not talking about ordinary children whose parents ignore them (well, maybe this was true of the siblings, as the autistic child required so much attention). We're talking about a real disability.

'If the kids are out of control for whatever reason and can't be controlled then they should not be going on airplanes to begin with.'

In an ideal world, this may be so (indeed in an ideal world, people in general might not go on planes: bad for the environment, etc.). In the real world, this can't always be avoided.

As I said in another thread, I do think that it was the parents' responsibiltiy to inform the airline in advance.

[DemoTex]

44. SWA = The Lucky Airline

Smoke those brakes landing at KPHX (107-F) during the big "turn." Make that first turnoff. Taxi fast to the gate. Ride the brakes (brakes heat up with the delta energy) .. ride the brakes. Ride the brakes.

Do a typical SWA quick-turn. Let's say 15 minutes. Taxi out fast, riding the brakes. Sked is God!

Cleared for takeoff! Here we go! Wheeeee!

Slam! Bam! Number two craters (never mind the off-shore FAA-approved engine maintenence) about 10 knots shy of V-1. No choice but to abort the takeoff (stop on the runway).

Oh hell! 65 killed! 25 injured!

BRAKE COOLING! SWA violates this maximn all the time!

[MindPilot]

106. Brakes? Who needs brakes?! Throw out the buckets and firewall the throttles

it'll stop...eventually.

[MercutioATC]

51. Kiva's is the only response so far that has it right. It's a SAFETY issue.

If a plane hits turbulence, do you know what kind of damage even a 50-pound child can do to other passengers?

Southwest could have been more compassionate with the lodging issue, but they absolutely did the right thing not letting the family get on another plane.

[EFerrari]

53. I agree. It is a safety issue. Southwest put both women and

all four children at risk.

Did they just start operating effin' YESTERDAY? They should have a protocol for these situations. "Ma'am, I'm sorry but I'm afraid you won't be continuing to Seattle. It's a safety risk and we want all of our passengers, including you, to be safe at all times. Here's a voucher for a hotel and for meals for your party. We're sorry for the inconvenience. If you need further assistance, here's a number you can call. They'll be happy to help you make other arrangements."

How f@cking hard is it to have something like that in place? If they're too stupid to do something so simple, they're too stupid for me to trust to fly me anywhere.

[MercutioATC]

55. That would have been the perfect way to deal with this.

Unfortunately, service isn't something that airlines (not just Southwest, but airlines in general) don't provide any more.

[EFerrari]

56. Maybe we should start a contracting business at airports

because you know there will only be more and more of these stories.

:(

[northzax]

141. so you kick someone off a flight

because of safety or behavioural issues and the airline is responsible for putting them up and buying them food?

is this all children? or just those certified as 'autistic'? do you need a letter from your doctor? lemme guess, it wasn't the kid with Cerebral Palsy running up and down the aisle screaming. reports say that it was, in fact, the other two children causing the disruption. is having an autistic child good reason for your other children to cause 'chaos' as one other passenger put it?

notice how these all happen on Southwest? good reason for it. People fly southwest and expect the same service as Cathay Pacific. guess what? there's a reason SW is a budget airline. if you need more services, freaking pay for them. sorry.

[kiva]

57. Thank you, MerutioATC.

I agree it would have been nice for the airlines to have paid for the motel, though these sort of gestures by corporations are rare. Letting this family back on another flight without some indication that the children would be able to stay in their seats would have, indeed, been an irresponsible action by Southwest.

[EFerrari]

58. When you consider that we've spent millions of our tax money

bailing these a##holes out, it should be a no brainer for them to put up two women and four kids for one night and feed them.

It shouldn't even be a question.

They get away with this cr@P because we side with them and not each other.

[kiva]

62. Yes, they have taken millions from us so that we can pay

more and more money for tickets. It would have been nice for them to have paid for a hotel and meals for this family, but they do not pay when travelers are stranded by weather or a security glitch or a host of other problems. I don't understand why I should side with these women since, by the account of the mother, the children were 'out of control.' Yes, she says that one of the children is autistic, but apparently more than that one child was causing problems, which indicates that she had no control over any of the four. Again, anyone who refuses to comply with safety measures should not be on an airplane.

[EFerrari]

63. Weather or glitches are out of their control.

This was a decision completely within their control.

And there is no reason for you to side with this woman.

[kiva]

64. I agree that this decision was made by Southwest.

The reason I mentioned the other possible glitch was to point out that it's not a good idea to get on a plane making a connecting flight without enough money to pay for a couple of meals and a motel room. I've been stuck in airports a couple of times when the airlines weren't responsible, and it's not fun, or cheap. Traveling with children, IMO, makes it more important to have some emergency cash. This family was lucky that the police and Motel 6 were willing to help.

[EFerrari]

65. It's not a good idea to be poor or struggling in this dump

but a lot of families, especially families with disabled kids, don't seem to have a better option.

When you have a disabled family member, a lot of times you have to give up a good paying job in favor of a job with flexible hours because your life is by definition unpredictable. It's a dwindling spiral.

[JimmyJubes]

67. There is one of the statements I was talking about

Exactly what I was talking about the selfish mindset -the same trash that was spewed about poor people in Katrina.
People can't help it if they don't have enough cash.And people who have the burden of travelling with disabled people shouldn't have to think about every scenerio and every inconsiderate responsible airline.

[kiva]

73. Yes, I'm selfish about wanting children to be safe.

You've chosen to ignore the fact that this isn't about the 'inconvenience' of loud children, but about them being out of control (according to their mother), children (not just the one she says is autistic) who won't sit and keep their seatbelts on, despite the fact the flight attendants asked the mother twice to settle them down.

People shouldn't have to "think about every scenario and every inconsiderate airline"? Missing a connecting flight is not a rare event. Traveling with "disabled people" makes being prepared even more important, as is traveling with children. You say that people can't help it if they don't have enough cast--I pointed out that the since the grandmother could afford a couple of thousand dollars for new tickets, she could have afforded to sent them a couple of hundred dollars to be used in case of an emergency.

[EFerrari]

118. But that's a false choice AND it puts all of the responsibility for

society's choices on the family -- aka, privatization.

That model does not work. When families have to deal with these situations in isolation, they do less well AND it winds up costing everyone more.

Hello, McFly?

Families traveling with disabled family members should, in this day and age and in this country, be able to expect humane treatment AT A MINIMUM.

[sakura]

59. Let's take a deep breath and look at the facts.

Google Wendy Slaughter to find the story that's been covered in "legitimate" news outlets, such as local Seattle news stations (with video) or check

http://www.kirotv.com/news/16803334/detail.html

Fact: Four kids, their mom, and an aunt were on the plane.

Fact: According to Slaughter, one child has autism and one has cerebral palsy. Two are apparently "average", healthy kids. Slaughter did not specify what degree of autism her son has-- it could be anything from the most severe form (the type that most of us think of when we think of autism) or the much milder ASD disorder, Asperger's which often manifests as a fixation on a certain topic and a lack of understanding of social cues (kind of like rainman, but highly intelligent, though usually not a savant). The daughter that was identified as having cerebral palsy does not seem to have a severe form of it. She wasn't in a wheelchair, and the video shows her moving all of her limbs-- no braces, etc. I have a cousin with severe CP-- he can only communicate by typing with his feet. This girls CP does not approach that. View the video and you'll see that the four kids were pretty well-behaved during the interview, regardless of physical/mental disabilities.

Fact: Slaughter and another witness said the the kids were loud, out of control, disruptive, running up and down the aisle when the seatbelt sign was on, refusing to stay in their seats. Those are the exact words she and a witness used. The flight crew said that they exhausted every possible method in their toolkit to deal with the kids. They had to get the kids in their seats-- that's the regulation when the fasten seatbelt sign is on-- and the kids wouldn't comply, and the mom didn't make them comply. There was a definite safety issue.

To me it seems highly likely that it wasn't just the two disabled kids who were involved. It's hard to have four kids and keep them well-behaved. I'm one of five kids, and we were a handful at times, but my parents laid down the law before we took our one and only plane trip as a family. Five kids and one parent was doable-- four kids and two adults (in Slaughter's case) should have been doable as well, regardless of disability. If they'd simply kept the kids in their seats, with their seat belts fastened, a large part of the problem would have been solved. Two adults should have been able to manage that, and if they couldn't, the children's safety was compromised from the start, and they shouldn't have been on the plane in the first place. As for the rest-- bring a cd player, spring for the crappy headsets southwest sells, bring some books or games and snacks. That's what the parents of well-behaved children do. It isn't an accident that those kids behave-- their parents have a plan. That goes for parents of both disabled and nondisabled kids.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

61. Please stop

making sense! :)

[sakura]

135. Oh, okay.

If you insist.:)

[JimmyJubes]

68. Fact

Your opinions aren't fact.
But you know what all I have to do is quote you on this
"It isn't an accident that those kids behave-- their parents have a plan.

And say maybe I should feel even more sorrow for the mentally disabled.

[sakura]

134. Fact.

You're not making any sense.

I never claimed my opinions were fact. But the things I did describe as fact are, actually, factual. Perhaps you need to take a course in reading comprehension (or writing) before shooting off incoherent responses.

Even mentally disabled kids' parents can take steps to help them to behave. The FACT that I have witnessed this in my work with kids from all walks of life and all abilities is proof of this.

It's sad when people are so willing to play the victim-- whether for their own benefit, or in sympathy for another, as you are doing. Watch the video and read the article-- you will see that neither claim that it was the disabled kids who were the source of the problem. It seems to me that the mother is using that as a very convenient excuse. She has FOUR kids. All of them were apparently running up and down the aisle. Even if she can't control the two with disabilities, she should have been able to control the other two. But she didn't. Using her other childrens' disabilities as an excuse for this is pathetic and hurtful to all of her children.

[SteelPenguin]

81. Agreed

If you can't comply with the safety rules, which are there for your protection, the other passengers protection, and the airline's liability, then the airline shouldn't have to let you back on their planes.

There are two main things it seems people are missing here. If you're not wearing your seatbelt when you hit an airpocket in turbulence you can be severely injured. I've personally witnessed peopel throw up and hit the ceiling of the airplane in an airpocket, only to immediatly crash back down on another passenger, injuring both of them. The seatbelt sign may be a bit overused and 'crying wolf' now, but they're erring on the safer side, and after seeing what I have I can't argue.

The second thing is that as you mention multiple eyewitness reports, and the parents themselves, admit the kid were out of control and running up and down the aisles when the seatbelt sign was on, and the parents didn't do anything to stop them. They willfully disobeyed a safety rule in place for everyone's protection.

[kiranon]

82. Please volunteer to work with autistic kids and learn about them.

One does not just buckle an autistic child into a seat and then everything is ok. One does not just establish consequences for an autistic child and the child then behaves. Please learn something about this disorder before having an opinion that has no basis in fact. If you volunteer to work with autistic children or work with them in some other manner you will not only learn a lot about autism but find that these are wonderful children who often wish they could control their own behavior. Unfortunately, at times they cannot no matter what the consequences or how many belts someone wants to place around them.

[XOKCowboy]

97. The child you describe is not safe on an airplane...

The child itself and other passengers are in danger if the child is running around the plane or just not belted in. I've been of flights where people have been thrown from their seats due to turbulence. A child in the aisle would have been like a pinball in that situation.

I am definitely not a SWA fan (I try to avoid flying them whenever possible) but I have to side with them in this case.

[slackmaster]

105. It seems to me the kid's parents need to learn about working with autistic children

Before they try to travel with one again.

[sakura]

130. I actually have worked with Asperger's students

Quite a few, in fact. You are jumping to conclusions by assuming that the child in question has the severity of symptoms that wouldn't allow him to be buckled into a seat. Watch the video of the family before drawing conclusions about my experiences.

[Lex]

70. Should there have been more adult supervision per child

given the circumstances?

[JimmyJubes]

74. Should have been

More Customer Service and accomodation by the losers at Southwest.
Should have been less selfishness.

[LanternWaste]

96. Then you believe Southwest has a moral

Then you believe Southwest has a moral (if not legal) responsibility to effectively and efficiently accommodate every known type of behavioral or physical disability they are presented with?

[EFerrari]

98. Probably legal, too.

And it's funny how these questions never come up when we're bailing them out. :shrug:

[LanternWaste]

107. I know next to nothing

I know next to nothing about airline policies... :(

[EFerrari]

108. I don't really, either. But when you think about it, they stranded

a pregnant woman in a strange city with no notice and no support.

That can't be a good business practice. :shrug:

They have enough resources to have handled this in a humane way and they blew it, imho, because we put up with it. How much would it cost to have a person at the airport to help these people once they were dumped from their flight? Minimum wage? A little more? :shrug:

[LanternWaste]

154. I thought the airline was morally responsible for a re-booking and lodging

Somewhere upthread I'd posted that I thought the airline was morally responsible for a re-booking and lodging. But I tempered that with saying any parent on a flight has a much deeper moral responsibility too-- depending on the child's needs, that responsibility is becomes even greater (the responsibility of the parents to the child that is).

What I would have done as the parent is to check, double-check, and then check a third time to ensure that my child's needs and safety are being met-- phone calls, pre-visits, etc. I don't know if the mom in this case did that-- I'm presuming she did as I'm optimistic about human nature, and even more optimistic about the natures of moms of children with special needs.

There was a break down somewhere along the line though in this instance-- and nobody appeared to want to make allowances. And I won't judge or fault either party involved. This I think, is one of the stories in which no one wins regardless of the eventual outcome.

[northzax]

143. when did we bail out Southwest?

I'm confused. SouthWest was one of two large US carriers NOT to take Federal Loan Guarantees after September 11. Is there another bailout I should know about?

read the Air Carrier Access Act. there is a distinct exception for safety issues, and a passenger who is unable to remain seated with a seatbelt fastened is a saftey issue. There is no obligation under the ACAA to carry a passenger who would be a safety issue for themselves or others.

[JimmyJubes]

223. 15 Billion Dollars went to 115 Airlines

Are you telling me Southwest said "Um no Thanks"?

[northzax]

142. why do you think they are the cheapest airline?

because they don't provide such service. you get what you pay for, if you want more flight attendants, fly American and pay more.

[kiranon]

84. We do one adult for each autistic child.

We had a play date that consisted of 6 autistic children. We had 7 adults there to help and we still had trouble keeping them safe and out of trouble. Each child did his own thing. There was no socializing among the children. One child grabbed all the potted plants and carried them outside one at a time on top of his head. Another began tearing pictures of cars out of magazines and throwing them around the living room. Another ran around the yard non stop. Another just stood and screamed. And, so on. When our children were young, we had 2 full time nannies plus mom to handle them. Most people do not have the resources to do this. We calculated the cost of raising our son from birth to age 5 and came up with $500,000. We had people working with him from the time he got up until we went to bed from the age of 19 months on. He had three different teachers come to the house each day to work with him. He is now fully mainstreamed and will probably go to college and be self sufficient and probably quite successful. But . . . this is the exception. Our daughter's autism was not as amenable and she is in special ed and probably always will be. It's a spectrum disorder - it varies a lot. Parents give up their lives to raise these children. About 85% of the marriages end in divorce where there is an autistic child. A little compassion would help a lot.

[JimmyJubes]

92. Right

A little compassion and people who did their job not call the authorities on every non-terrorist event.
Thank you ;)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. They abandon the children with their legal parent and guardian?

I haven't been so upset since that taxi kicked me out on the curb at the address I requested.

[LeftishBrit]

86. The crucial question...

is whether the parents told the airline in advance about their children's problems.

If they did, then the airline should have been prepared, and given them whatever assistance they needed - as with anyone with a disability, and certianly not kicked them off the plane. (Or at worst admitted in advance that they didn't have the resources to deal with such problems and recommended another airline that could.)

If the parents didn't inform them, then, while the airline may have over-reacted, the parents can also be blamed for lack of foresight.

As regards not 'controlling' the child: autism isn't a matter of not being controlled, and however well an autistic child has been trained, they may not be able to behave 'appropriately' in some situations. In particular, children with autism tend to have trouble with unfamiliar situations, changes in their routine, and excessive stimulation and crowds - precisely what aeroplane travel tends to involve. Thus, even an autistic child who behaves quite well under ordinary circumstances may not react well to plane travel. Yes, in an ideal world the parents might avoid plane travel under the circumstances, but in the real world that isn't invariably an option.

[EFerrari]

102. In order to avoid upsets, I used to have to break up travel into

snail segments that even my husband objected to even though it was on behalf of his balance that those measures where put in place.

A one day trip took two to three days and so one. On travel days, there could be nothing else but calming before and after. On the day before a trip, no upsets but a good deal of distraction. On coming home days, nothing important planned but peace and quite.

Going on even a short trip with someone like that is like planning a battle. Since we usually had little money and no support, it was like going into battle with one arm and no shoes. People who have never tried it have no idea. None.

[northzax]

145. there is no advance warning requirement under ACAA

unless additional equipment is needed (like a special respirator hookup or something along those lines)

and given that other passengers blame the non-autistic children for the running around and screaming (I am assuming the one with CP wasn't involved as much) what accomodations should they have made?

the fact that the behaviour was different on the next flight leads me to think that the problems weren't with the autistic or CP child, but with the other two perfectly 'normal' ones. they would take correction (which the mother apparently refused to do on the plane)

on edit: while ACAA requires reasonable accomodations (and makes an exception for safety) for disables persons, it says nothing about additional accomodations for people travelling with them.

[Oak2004]

87. For the record, autism isn't mental illness.

It's a developmental disability, in the same general family as mental retardation, but different.

[geek_sabre]

89. Good on SWA

not sure why you put "disruptive" in quotes. How else would you describe children running and screaming up and down the aisles with the seat-belt light on? While the solution to crying babies in planes is to put in ear plugs, these kids could have seriously injured other passengers or crew, and were likely interferring with the work of the flight attendants. They are there to ensure the safety of all passengers, not to babysit your kids. There is absolutely no reason this should be tolerated on such a long flight.

It wasn't just the disabled children that were misbehaving. It was ALL OF THEM. How is this the airline's fault? Why does she have no responsibility for their behavior? Just because you purchase a ticket doesn't mean your kids to use the plane as their own personal amusement park. If the plane hit turbulance, and one of her kids cracked his skull open, she would have been blaming the airline still.

SWA should NOT have refunded their money.

[JimmyJubes]

90. Ah that's right

To the selfish Southwest Airlines and people who do not wish to have compassion for the less fortunate.
Let's not have autistic or cerebral palsy persons on public transportation. Hilter was right these people are not as human as the rest of us.
And Southwest should keep kicking people off the plane and bothering the authorities because the worst terrorists are Autistic and Cerebral Palsy and anyone Southwest Airlines feels is not worthy of customer service or their patience.

[geek_sabre]

93. Continue ignoring the fact that 2 of their kids were "normal"

I might be a little more sympathetic if it was just the two disabled kids, but there is absolutely no reason why the mother couldn't have made some effort to reign in some of kids. She just let them run wild after two warnings. My brother is a pilot, and he says that it doesn't matter whether the person is autistic or not, young or old, if they're up out of their seats moving up and down the aisle while the seatbelt sign is on, they are endangering others on the flight.

You don't have a human right to run up and down the aisle in a plane while the seatbelt sign is on. Your Hitler comparison is ridiculous. You don't seem to comprehend the injuries that could result if the plane hit an air pocket. If they'd been hurt or killed, you'd be on here bitching about how the airline is to blame.

[EFerrari]

99. You have no idea what effort the mother made.

But congratulations for judging her anyway!

[Trekologer]

165. While it is true that no one here knows exactly what was done...

...here's what could have been done.

Southwest flies exclusively Boeing 737 aircraft, which are 6 abreast: 3 seats, aisle, 3 seats. There were two adults and four children. The sensible seating arrangement is adult on the aisle with two children in the neighboring seats (center, window). With this arrangement, it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect that the adults could prevent the children from leaving their seats when not appropriate.

Now, they don't put the seatbelt sign on for show. And the passengers are also required to follow the instructions of the crew. As others have pointed out, anyone moving in the cabin could be a potential safety hazard should the plane hit an air pocket, turbulence, or worse, not just for themselves but for other passengers as well. It would be irresponsible for the airline to allow such behavior to continue.

I looked into this story and none of the news sources reported which children were the disruptive ones. However, the mother did admit that they were not under control. What the OP does leave out is that Southwest not refunded the tickets for the second leg of the trip, but they also are paying the family for the tickets on the other airline. Now that doesn't make the airline seem as bad anymore, does it?

[EFerrari]

182. SWA was stupid in their handling but that isn't the issue I was raising.

[Beaverhausen]

94. what is your problem?

It was a safety issue for the hundred or so other passengers on the plane.

Any person, regardless of their abilities or handicaps, would not be allowed to fly if they are going to pose a hazard to the safety of others. Period.

The mother herself admitted the kids were out of control. The airline was correct in not allowing them to fly.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

95. It's about time you dragged Hitler into this.

"Hilter was right these people are not as human as the rest of us."
Although you spelled it worng.

[slackmaster]

104. Mr. Hilter, meet Mr. McGoering

[EFerrari]

111. It's not as over the top as it should be on a liberal forum

and right up there with that locked thread where people were arguing Muslims should leave Europe because they didn't like puppies.

Most of the same posters, too.

[Scout]

136. you spelling Nazi! ;-) n/t

[JimmyJubes]

169. Thanks

Yeah some of these people are like cold hearted Nazis.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

170. May I rent you five clues?

:* :radio: :web: :weekly: :redbox:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

149. I haven't been so upset since they bounced me out of the strip club.

Imagine that! A senior citizen alone on the street without his parents! Where's their respect for my advanced age?

Fucking commies.

[KamaAina]

100. Air Carrier Access Act

similar to the ADA, but the airlines get their own, somewhat watered-down version.

http://www.disabilitytravel.com/airlines/air_carrier_act.htm

Carriers may not refuse transportation to people on the basis of disability. Airlines may exclude anyone from a flight if carrying the person would be inimical to the safety of the flight. If a carrier excludes a handicapped person on safety grounds, the carrier must provide the person a written explanation of the decision.

Did Southwest provide the Slaughters with a written explanation of this?

[slackmaster]

101. That sounds so much more dramatic than "Southwest denies family travel (4 unruly kids)"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3385049&mesg_id=3385049

Oh, the humanity.

:rofl:

[kiva]

109. Yes, a very dramatic headline.

Southwest Airlines OK, correct so far.

Strands Definitions of strand on the Web:
* a pattern forming a unity within a larger structural whole; "he tried to pick up the strands of his former life"
* line consisting of a complex of fibers or filaments that are twisted together to form a thread or a rope or a cable
* chain: a necklace made by a stringing objects together; "a string of beads"; "a strand of pearls";
* fibril: a very slender natural or synthetic fiber
* maroon: leave stranded or isolated with little hope of rescue; "the travellers were marooned"
Nope, doesn't really fit.

Mentally Ill Children As several people on this thread have pointed out, this in an incorrect label for either child.

So far on this thread the OP has made references to Katrina and apparently to Hitler--drama is a sedate word to use in describing this thread.

[EFerrari]

110. And even so doesn't begin to cover what those two women

were dealing with. Starting with ignorance and ridicule.

[slackmaster]

112. I hope Wendy Slaughter learns how to manage her kids' behavior as a result of this experience

Public humiliation can be a powerful motivator.

[EFerrari]

114. I hope you're not a teacher. n/t

[slackmaster]

120. Personal attack is all you and the OP have to offer here

:hi:

[EFerrari]

121. No at all. Shame is not a good teaching tool.

:hi:

[slackmaster]

123. In that case, I am very glad that you aren't a chorus girl

:hi:

[EFerrari]

132. Duzy.

:rofl:

[JimmyJubes]

200. Is that how you learned to raise your kids

or is that a conclusion you have come to because it's the only thing that motivates you?

[MindPilot]

113. So under this idea of compassionate airline-ism a person should be allowed to smoke?

Sure they told me to put the ciggies out, but it's an addiction and I really can't control it because addiction is a disease so the rest of passengers have to accommodate me.

Disclaimer: I don't smoke; I'm just sayin'

[EFerrari]

116. A smoker can not carry cigarrettes on to a plane.

An autistic kid doesn't have the same choice.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

119. sure they can...

why would a smoker not be able to get their smokes onto a plane?

sP

[EFerrari]

122. A smoker can chose not to take their smokes on board.

An autistic child can't chose to leave their brain behind.

And the password is, "choice".

[slackmaster]

125. The parents of a child who has behavior problems are responsible for keeping the child under control

Not the child.

[EFerrari]

133. Direct your remark to the person who originated the comparison. n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

126. sorry...misread

cannot for can not...

sP

[EFerrari]

131. My post was clunky. My fault n/t

[MindPilot]

137. The smoker doesn't have a choice

The disease of addiction would compel them take their cigarettes on board.

[EFerrari]

138. This smoker disagrees. I can get patches, gum

or have myself crated in the hold.

An autistic kid doesn't have any such choice.

[MindPilot]

139. Yeah, I get that.

The point is you are advocating for the airline and other passengers tolerating a certain level of unruly--in some cases obnoxious--and potentially dangerous behavior as the result of one medical/developmental condition, but not another. Who makes that choice?

Actually I think I'll try that getting crated in the hold idea on my next flight. It would be much more pleasant down there with the other crated animals :D

[EFerrari]

140. The thing is, I'm not really.

If that group needed to be put off their flight for safety reasons -- or even, for behavioral reasons, that's reasonable.

What's not reasonable, in my book, is to just dump people who are really dealing with real stuff with nothing and in a strange city. Most of the folks I know who have kids like that count every cent. They cross fingers that their fan belt won't go because that ten bucks needs to go to the rent. Dump them in a strange city and things go south, really fast. Four kids, a pregnant lady and a tired mom.

It's just stupid to do things that way. If SWA had helped this mom just a little bit, everyone would be high fiving them right now. She needed, what? A $60 voucher for a hotel room, $25 bucks to put on the phone so she could call around and maybe $100 for two meals for everyone. Big deal. The airlines probably got that much of her money after 9/11 when they had to be put on life support.

And by now, everyone would be high-fiving SWA for being so good to their customers.

Where's the down side? (Besides the hold.)

[MindPilot]

144. Yeah, you're right; they definitely could have handled it better

Whenever those stories come around--they seem to frequently involve Wal-Mart--about the manager who put the Toys-for-Tots donation back on the shelf, or fired the woman for using her discount to buy xmas presents for charity, I rhetorically ask WTF were they thinking?!

The company gets an opportunity for free advertising and good PR dumped in their laps and then they shit all over it.

Fortunately I work for a company that isn't that much of a dumbass. After the fires last October, our CEO made sure that every fire station in the county got a new flat screen TV.

[kiva]

147. OK, I admit I've been snarky about this,

and that your idea is valid--the little it would have cost Southwest would have softened the criticism, not to mention been a humane thing to do. Honestly (all snarkiness put away) I don't know what other choice the airline had except take the family off the second leg of the flight.

[slackmaster]

158. I agree that SWA should have taken care of those people

Paid for a cab ride, a couple of meals, a few phone calls, and a night in a hotel.

[JimmyJubes]

201. Okay I am going to cut you some slack

because of your Latin Who will post guard over the guardians.
Unfortunately some very intelligent people don't reason well.
(I guess it's because they are smarter than most and think that they are always right)
Or because they lack compassion.
It was wrong what Southwest did and all your sarcasm won't change the fact that you don't treat people like that.
But kudos for your signature quote.

[JimmyJubes]

204. probably where you belong

because you lack humanity

[Sheets of Easter]

115. I don't know where I stand on this.

Even post-9/11, you have to be pretty darned obnoxious to get booted off of a plane. Not to mention, we're only really getting one side of the story. Since when does CP cause children to be "disruptive?"

[A-Schwarzenegger]

148. Love yer screenname.

[Sheets of Easter]

153. Thanks. I take it you're a Mudhoney fan?

:hi:

[Critters2]

150. Exactly. I have a cousin with CP, and I've never known her to be disruptive in

the nearly 50 years of our relationship. Not as a kid, not as an adult. Neither were her siblings. If anything, Kathy's always been quieter and less "disruptive" than other kids. I cannot see how CP plays into this situation at all.

[screembloodymurder]

152. Last time I flew SW

the stewardess, who was Southern Baptist, was bad mouthing Catholics, Puerta Ricans, Mexicans and just about anyone that wasn't from Texas. That's LUV for ya.

[Bluebear]

164. "The stewardess" - - - when was it, 1974?

[JimmyJubes]

225. Bluebear

says u mean
"DA Biotch was diss ditzing and dem Catholics,Puerta Ricans,Mexans and dis G says dats whack---- sheaaat!"

[JimmyJubes]

172. The Bottom Line is this

Southwest Airlines has a habit of calling authorities in and making a federal case over something that could have been simply resolved. They have a terrible track record of playing God. And the fact that they would humiliate and call authorities on disabled individuals using 911 as an excuse is as dispicable as their heartless behavior.

At the very least they could have given them a warning that they were going to be put off the plane, worked it out with the woman and if circumstances didn't change helped them get on another flight when things calmed down. Not cancel the tickets that they paid for and humiliate them.

As far as the idiots who are making disparaging comments about these poor people --I have to say I am so glad I don't keep your company
because my friends see these people as people -- people who we are obligated as a society to help.

That said people need to realize Airlines have been bailed out with billions of dollars of tax money time and time again.
If it were your business that failed again and again and you were bailed out I am sure everyone would expect your customer service to be the best not the worst.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

174. And that will certainly settle this issue once and for all, except that

there are 127 posts to go.

[EFerrari]

175. LOL

[Bluebear]

176. Southwest has never been "bailed out". Ever. Sounds like you have a grudge, frankly.

[JimmyJubes]

178. Sounds like you have bias

I'll admit this article was sent to me but I think everyone knows this----


The intimate ties between corporate America, the Bush administration and the two main political parties were illustrated in sharp relief last month by the speed with which Congress passed the bailout of the airline industry. Less than two weeks following the September 11 terror attacks the airlines had secured $15 billion dollars in federal money, with none of it going to the thousands of airline workers who have lost their jobs and seen their benefits slashed.

Only the day after the attacks, the airlines sprung into action. Their lobbyists converged on Capitol Hill to convince Congress that the industry needed billions of dollars. In fact, they argued that the very survival of America was dependent on the injection of huge sums of federal money into the airline companies’ coffers. Senator Peter G. Fitzgerald (R-Illinois), the only senator to vote against the bailout package, told the New York Times: “The airline industry made a full-court press to convince Congress that giving them billions in taxpayer cash was the only way to save the republic.” He described the airlines’ lobbying efforts as “masterful.”

The airlines have a powerful lobby in Congress, including 27 lobbyists working directly for the airlines and another 42 from Washington firms. Included among them are former White House aides, transportation secretaries and retired congressmen. Haley Barbour, a former Republican National Committee chairman, and Rebecca Cox, a former Reagan administration official and the wife of Representative Christopher Cox, a California Republican, were also on board for the airlines’ cause.

Linda Hall Daschle, the wife of Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, is a lobbyist for American Airlines. While reportedly avoiding her husband and Senate Democrats in her lobbying efforts, Ms. Daschle campaigned vigorously among House Democrats for the bailout.

Airline top executives lobbied for their companies in person. Among them were Donald J. Carty, CEO of American Airlines’ parent company AMR, and Gordon Bethune, chief executive of Continental Airlines. Both companies are based in Texas, and Carty and Bethune have known George W. Bush for years. Delta Airlines CEO Leo F. Mullin was also on hand.

Board members of the six major airlines made calls to leading members of Congress and the Bush administration to support their case. Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Continental director, phoned three senators on September 19, saying the bailout was needed to transform “a moment of fear to a moment of faith.” American Airlines Director John W. Bachmann called Missouri Representatives Richard Gephardt and Roy Blunt to say the airline industry’s losses were nothing less than “breathtaking” and required immediate action.

The airline industry has long been a big contributor to the Democratic and Republican parties, and this support was rewarded generously in the bailout package. American Airlines’ board members contributed $148,000 to Republicans in the 2000 campaign, and American donated $100,000 to the Bush inauguration. The boards of Delta, United, Continental and American gave a total of $712,569 in soft-money to both the Democrats and Republicans. Since 1998 the airlines overall have given a whopping $7.4 million to Republican candidates and committees, and $4.6 million to the Democrats.

On the evening of September 14, only three days after the attacks, the airlines came close to ramming through a $12.5 billion rescue package. The vote on the House floor—which was virtually abandoned after members had been sent home for the day—almost passed unanimously. Representative Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) was the only one to object and the measure failed to pass. Continental Airlines, based in Doggett’s home state, unleashed its wrath against the congressman and began an automated telephone campaign throughout Texas claiming Doggett should be held responsible for any future layoffs at the airline.

Pressure by the airlines for the bailout did not let up. Thousands of airline workers’ jobs were eliminated—a process that had begun before September 11, which the industry accelerated following the attacks. More than 100,000 airline employees have now lost their jobs, but the $15 billion bailout package that was finally passed by Congress contains not one penny for these workers or their families. The Senate voted 96-1 to approve the bill and the House voted by an overwhelming 356 to 54.

The bill contained $5 billion in immediate cash to the airlines, along with $3 billion in emergency spending directed by Bush as part of the $40 billion authorized by Congress in response to the attacks. Another $10 billion was provided to the airlines in the form of guaranteed loans. The bill also makes the federal government the insurer of the airline industry for the next 180 days, after which insurance companies are expected to offer renewal of coverage at higher rates. The provisions of the bill are also tailored to favor the biggest airlines at the expense of the smaller ones, whose markets are limited and who lack the political clout of the major carriers.

In addition to the airline bailout, the economic stimulus bill being pushed by the Bush administration will provide in excess of $60 billion in tax cuts for the rich while providing token assistance to the millions of Americans suffering as a result of the terror attacks. The airlines are among the most energetic supporters of provisions in the bill that will allow corporations to reduce their tax liability.

As was shown in the swift and lucrative bailout for the airline industry, the Bush administration and Congress have made it clear they can be counted on to do whatever they can to see that the impact of the terror attacks does not adversely affect the profits of the airlines and other powerful sections of big business. In fact, the political establishment has seized on the tragic events to push through measures which corporate America was lobbying for long before September 11.

[JimmyJubes]

179. also

that was a random part of what I was saying-- and I was talking about the airlines in general --
What do you work for Fox News or something?
Southwest runs a business and people who pay their hard earned money shouldn't be treated badly.
Especially disabled persons.

[Bluebear]

184. 'What do you work for Fox News or something?' - Nice to have you at DU

Are you always so pleasant?

[flvegan]

180. This thread is awesome.

It deserves its own toss from a plane.

[JimmyJubes]

181. Well speaking of toss from the plane

Maybe Southwest should worry more about the condition of their planes

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-southwest_07bus.ART.State.Edition2.1d31ae1.html

(usually I try to make the lazy posters use google but figured I would provide this link on Southwest Planes falling apart)

I think disabled planes may be more of a concern than disabled passengers.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

186. That's it? That can't be it.

There are 114 posts to go.... 113.

[kiva]

193. 107...n/t

[JimmyJubes]

196. okay

Kick

[three1oh]

194. man

airline industry cant buy good news these days

[JimmyJubes]

209. The people have spoken and scared mighty Southwest

http://www.wgal.com/family/16819061/detail.html?rss=lan...

Yes because of the backlash by compassionate human beings Southwest Airlines issued a statement and excuse why they didn't refund the money for the flight.
However I believe they still should be sued so this doesn't happen to anyone else.
Good thing the authorities who are probably sick of Southwest yelling Security everytime they have a difficult customer service situation (like that Mad Burger King skit) were on the family's side.

I know there were a couple of really sickening selfish posts but hey in the end the majority of people aren't the drunken idiots who have nothing to do but post moronic comments.
In the end Americans are good people who do the right thing.
Now let's do right by our country and elect the Obama/Clinton ticket.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

211. Thanks to you, JimmyJubes, for resolving this situation

as well as it could be resolved and for maintaining
a humane grace and compassionate good will
toward all your fellow posters at the same time.
If only Southwest had acted from the beginning as good-hearted
as you've acted in this thread, this thread couldn't have been
necessary. Thanks again for showing how it's done and for convincing
Southwest to follow your example.

[JimmyJubes]

213. Yeah I know

Mean people suck.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

216. It's just terrible, just AWFUL.

:*

[otherlander]

214. You know what I've decided?

I've decided that this flamewar just isn't divisive enough yet. People just aren't fighting enough in this thread, and they're not fighting over enough different things. So I've decided to add yet another tangent to this flamewar: I question your assertion that people with autism are mentally ill. Maybe it's just a human variation. Maybe it's a dangerous gift.

:popcorn:

[JimmyJubes]

217. um "dangerous" gift

I believe that people with autism are gifted. I know some people (especially insurance agencies) would like to say it is not a mental illness. It was considered a mental illness in the past. I cannot edit the title at this point (I tried to when someone stated it was a poor choice of words)
Anyway I think that if you look at statistics people with Autism would probably be the least dangerous. As opposed to mean people who are the most dangerous.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

222. 222 posts on a subject(s) like this and not a single one deleted.

Somebody's not doing their job.

[mountainvue]

219. I won't fly on that airline ever since

I saw how badly they treated people on that airline reality show on cable. I can't remember the name of the show now.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

221. "Airline".

:*

[Bluebear]

224. Which show, the one where they refused drunken idiots passage?

:)

[theboss]

226. Yea...don't care

You know, I really can't get excited about every shitty thing that happens to someone. I just don't have that kind of energy.

[JimmyJubes]

227. Much more dangerous than

The Autistic,Cerebral Palsy children is this:



http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-southwest_07bus.ART.State.Edition2.1d31ae1.html