Telecom Immunity: A Question

[JamesA1102]

Could someone explain to why civil immunity is such a sticking point. It seems to me that criminal immunity should be the real issue.

As far as civil immunity wouldn't the bar be very high to begin with. An individual would have to prove the government listened to their calls, then have to prove that is was done without a warrant and even if they were able to prove all that; they would then have to show cause for damages. The bar just seems very high to be able to prove all that.

[robinlynne]

1. They already ahve and are about to win 41 cases. The 41 civil cases have been in the

courts for eyars, and are about to play out on the national stage. THESE civil cases, will allow the plaintiffs, and there are many to obtain the information the govt doesn't want obtained. And in two of the cases there are whistleblowers ready to talk and talking about what they know and saw. The Qwest case, for example, will put on display the fact that the gov't asked the CEo to ebing illegakl spying in February of 2001, 7 months before the attacks. What the gov't did as revenge to Nacchio is a civil case. They brought teh DOj down on him, ruined his finances and name, then Bush Senior (Carlyle) bought the company. He deserves every penny he can get. he stood up and said "I cannot od this it is illegal", and of course he had a legal team who debated it at the time, and all of this will come out in CIVIL court.

Edited to add: With this informaiton out in the courts, then there will be grounds for criminal prosecution, without a doubt.

[wtmusic]

2. Excellent summary, Robin

Tomorrow = last chance.

[truedelphi]

3. Good to know all this. Thank you.

To think that Bush Sr then bought the Qwest company!

[tkmorris]

4. I will only add that criminal prosecution is controlled by the AG

Civil liability is not. Also, for a criminal prosecution you need to target individuals within the company generally, with a civil suit the corporation itself can be held accountable.

[robinlynne]

6. Thanks for this. i dont udnerstand the law. but I understand how hugely important this immunity

is. And it rtiks me that epople are trying to say, it's ok, we can get them later....

[robinlynne]

8. So a corporation cannot be tried in criminal court?

[lonestarnot]

9. And that I hate to concede! Corps need to be demolished!

[lonestarnot]

7. And all of that can also be obtained in criminal proceedings.

[robinlynne]

11. You cannot have criminal proceedings against a corporation, AND

there are CURRENTLY 41 civil proceedings happening, and 0 criminal proceedings. sp are you gong to let them get out of these 41 strong existing lawsuits?

[JamesA1102]

10. Thanks!

I understand the issue much better now.

[Pavulon]

5. DISCOVERY!

these things tie in with operating systems that would disclose how the NSA gathers and processes data.

This will NEVER come in to public view. Really NEVER going to happen. I am surprised that guy in socal who got pissed after being passed over on a promotion and tipped media to minor details of a major system is still walking around.

These systems cost billions and have operated before Bush and will continue to operate no matter who is in office.

We (the US) tap phones and sort data that crosses all types of telecom lines.

If we for some reason decide to make all this public, the NSA and others will just rebuild, costing many billions of dollars.