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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 10:30 AM
Original message
TYT: Do The Democrats Want To Lose? Or Is Caving To Bush Part Of The Plan...
Do the Democrats Want to Lose?
By Cenk Uygur

http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2008/6/24/22216/2869/Diary/Do-the-Democrats-Want-to-Lose-

Do the Democrats want to lose? That seems an odd question to ask. But they do it so well you begin to wonder. Now, they are about to lose to Bush and the grossly unpopular Republicans again on FISA and telecom immunity. But are they really losing? That depends on what your objective is. Let me explain.

The Republican Party is in a death spiral right now and they don't even realize it. Sure, they understand something is wrong but they have no idea what the real cause is. Most of them are still arguing that they failed in veering away from hard right-wing, conservative principles. That's exactly wrong.
The problem for the Republicans is that they have been going to the far right for far too long. Here is what the Republican Party and all of Washington is having trouble accepting - we are not fundamentally a center-right country, let alone how far right the Republicans have taken us. The idea that we are center-right has been conventional wisdom for so long that no one has remembered to challenge that assumption.

In fact, the American people love their Social Security, believe that a community should help its most downtrodden, and think it is the government's responsibility to help its citizens in times of need. They do not believe that every man should fend for himself and the only remedy government should offer a man in need is a healthy pair of bootstraps. The American people are simply not that cold and uncaring.

Some argue that they should be. That the best remedy is tough love. These people are usually already rich, and almost certainly Republican. And that's the problem. The Republican Party has lost the ability to understand and empathize with the average American voter. They can't feel our pain.

So, this leads to a situation where the Democratic Party - seemingly through no action of its own - is about to be the beneficiary of an enormous majority in Congress. It's tempting to say they fumbled, bumbled and mumbled their way into this good fortune because it certainly appeared so.

But let me ask a radical question: Did the Democrats choose to be incompetent in the face of gross Republican mismanagement over the last seven years? The question everyone has been asking for a long time now is how can they keep losing to the most unpopular president in United States history? How can a party on the verge of historic political victories not be able to defeat a enormously unpopular president in his lame duck year? How is that possible?

Here is an answer people haven't considered enough - they want to lose. You can call it strategic weakness. They never wanted to get out of Iraq. They never wanted to fix any of the problems we have in the country now. Instead they wanted to let them fester into open sores until the American people got so fed up with it that they threw out the Republican bums who were in charge.

I think we give far too much deference to our politicians, as if they are the most magnanimous, well-intentioned folks who always put the needs of their constituents first. The press has become far too credulous. Politicians are often the worst kind of self-aggrandizing, blowhards. And the one thing they care most about is their own power.

Yes, there are well-intentioned, principled politicians. Russ Feingold (D-WI) voted against the Patriot Act when ninety-nine other senators didn't dare question it. Tom Coburn (R-OK) votes down bills based on his fiscal principles all the time. You might or might not agree with the politics of these legislators but there is something to admire about them. However, they are certainly the exception.

What progressive activists couldn't understand about the Democrats when the party refused to fight back on Iraq after the 2006 elections is that these politicians had different objectives than them. The goal of the activists was policy - they wanted to get out of Iraq. The goal of the Democratic Party was politics - they wanted to win more elections. Those are two totally different objectives.

So, as their base thought they were losing, in fact, the Democratic Party was winning. No, we didn't get out of Iraq, but the Republicans did crash themselves on the shores of this disastrous policy. By sticking so diligently to their far right positions on Iraq and just about everything else (S-CHIP, Webb's GI Bill, etc.), the Republicans assured their ultimate demise. All the Democrats had to do was step out of the way. The activists saw this as weakness and acquiescence. The Democratic politicians saw it as an opportunity.

This gambit seems to being paying off handsomely so far. The Democratic Party picked up 36 seats in the House and Senate in 2006 and they have added three more in recent special elections. The Democrats have not suffered any significant wounds for their completely ineffectual challenge to the president, while the Republicans are on the verge of being tarred and feathered and run out of town.

Political strategists will study this for years to come - the win by losing strategy. Only a Democrat could have come up with that.
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PS---Keep in mind that you can download the first hour of The Young Turks free every day through Itunes. Also, the show loops 24 hours a day at www.theyoungturks.com





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CherylK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. K & R!
I would like to disagree with this but it is true. At least it seems that way.

:(
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think it is true but unfortunately the Democrats, in a way, had to play it this way
Without a strong majority they can't get the courageous bills passed. They can block a lot, like the Repugs are doing right now, however changes to the stuff that matters will not happen w'out a strong majority. They cannot get that majority w'out playing some extreme hard ball politics to out the ideology of the RW as how truly nasty it is. They are doing that now, we will see come November if their plan worked.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. K/R.
Hmmmm. The win by losing strategy.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. I have to say I love Cenk. If he didn't have a girlfriend...
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'd be happy just having a political
conversation will him! :)

K&R
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. and you can. you can call in to the show. I do. or I used to before they swicthed to
6Am eastern (I'm on the west coast, so that's something like 3 or 4 in the morning here.)
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Actually, they don't really take calls anymore. But they might start again when they go on XM...
In case you hadn't heard, TYT just got a new contract with XM starting July 14th. I'm not sure what the timeslot will be yet, but it's great news.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. ooh. let us know. will we be able to watch it on the internets?
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Good Question...
I don't have all the details yet but when I do, I'll share them.

There's also something very exciting involving TYT and BraveNewFilms (and more) starting in July.
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CherylK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I can not wait!
:)
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. Correction: a fiancé :P
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. aw shucks.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. I have to disagree this time. It's Third Way imperialism and old fashioned
corruption. Follow the money. Observe who they pander to.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I agree
eom
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. You said it. It's collaboration. They know exactly what they're doing for their masters.
And those masters ain't "us".
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. Absolutely!
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. I think this gives too much credit to our politicians.
And I agree with mmonk -- follow the money.

I don't think it's anything more than that. :grr:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Thanks. The telecommunications immunity is a great example.
Look at the flow of donations and the spike to certain key politicians. It's the same pattern in everything they do. They take their constituency votes for granted if they have been in office for awhile, especially with the use of earmarks. Our lives and liberty are up for sale now.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Like with (D) Rockefeller? Of course that's the case, Cenk talked about that quite a bit actually
He didn't mention it in this latest article, but he has in previous writings and on the show. Certain Dems have taken quite a bit of money from the Telecom industry.

Sadly, both parties are corrupted by special interests. I still don't think they're overall quite as corrupt as the Republicans, but that's damning with faint praise.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. But the problem lies in the fact that having a majority
that doesn't change the pattern is not a majority to change our politics or to fight back and be represented.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The real test will (hopefully) come soon enough, if the Dems get large majorities
in both the House and Senate AND Obama is elected.

If that happens and they STILL don't fight and cave in like this...well, I think you know where I'm headed.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Let's hope for the best.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. BTW, thanks for the videos.
I always check them out in the political videos section.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Although I'm loathe to mention this name on this board,
Lou Dobbs suggested that everyone re-register as an Independent. That way our party leaders and politicians don't automatically assume we'll continue to support them because of the Party.

I think, especially with all the crap the Dem Congress has done, it would send a message if all Dems became Independents, and make them think a little more about their actions.

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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. There is another way
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. It would be a signal. The problem comes when there is a primary
and the incumbent is challenged by a progressive or clean politician (I would like to vote for that challenger). However, I do see value in the idea.
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
41. In the 2006 elections we elected many of them as we had a message
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 03:26 AM by FREEWILL56
and it seems they haven't got the message yet to pass it on to the pukes. Many dems were elected in 2006 as we sent a message and what the hell did they do with it? Add to it the fact that many republicans are switching parties and our so called leaders couldn't care less about us true dems for they support puke policies in spite of retoric they've spewed to get elected in many instances. Few are fighting the just and progressive fight and our leadership in addition to making strange bedfellows with the pukes is also fighting those true dems that are fighting for us. WTF?
Win by losing? NO, it's lose by caving to pukes as they're so in power now that we stand no chance of even beginning to sway enough people to throw these bums out as it seems to be close to 90% of our representatives in both the house and senate. It may take a revolution to throw the bums out now let alone properly prosecute them. Why do you think they've been taking away so many of our rights from us? DA.:freak:
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. Sadly, I must agree with you.
They sure talked tough when they wanted our votes in '06, didn't they?
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. the "democrats" include about 50% who are fifth columnist stealth repukes
and about 45% who want to preserve the status quo at all costs, because they are part of the ruling elite who are prospering beyond all belief these days.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. Politics, and politicians, as usual...as usual.
“Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote,
He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note.
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple,
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people.
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins
He's eatin' bullshit!)”

Bob Dylan
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. IM-(and others)-O.: Best government $$ can buy.
I believe that the repuke party was the easier of the two to infiltrate by the corporatists during the Clinton era. (Long prior history of successes there anyway...Democrats represented the Middle Class and Poor Classes while the republicans..well ya'll know the history!) They used religion and family values (among other things) and a good deal of $$ to get and maintain the majorities over the past 15 years.

They, (the corporatists), knew that eventually they would loose their cash cow, (a repuke majority and Presidency), so they began shifting over by invested heavily in Democrats. (Simple explanation in my simple mind for the rise of the Blue Dogs and a recently bowed out popular presidential candidate.) I would add to that list those leaders in Dem Congress who vote to continue funding the Iraqi War and recently are trying to give the telecoms a pass. I suspect we will see this same bunch go along with opening up ANWR and the un-permitted off-shore areas as well. As others before in this thread have said but put bluntly: Best Government corporatist money can buy!

Capitalism unrestricted will destroy the democracy which allows it to remain unrestricted. This imo is what we witness. It's not a political strategy but the symptoms of a diseased democracy one which may die because it allowed the aristocracy of it's own capitalism to gain control.

The scary thing is: We still have the strongest military the planet has ever seen and perhaps the strongest nuke arsenal to back it up! It is possible that this hostile takeover was deliberately planned... it doesn't take too much tin-foil to arrive at such a ghastly notion. What interesting times we live in.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. I misread the second part as "Or Is Carving Up Bush..."
Carved up in impeachment hearings is my choice.

Now I'll go back & read the OP.

:hide:
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CherylK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
29. Bump!
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Ok...
:bounce:
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Terry_M Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
31. Hmmm
So the game they're playing is... Do whatever it takes to get more seats.... Piss off the base by having a bunch of people break with the party to make the base feel like they need more of your party elected just to get something done. And of course the pissed off base won't really force any of you out because it's hard as hell to remove incumbents during a primary....

I think we should play a new game.. Unseat them during the election, where our few % going to the republican candidate will be enough. Then work on someone else the next election.
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Riddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
32. They don't WANT to lose, but don't have the balls to do what;s necessary to win
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
33. K/R nt
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. Also: Rove is actually a brilliant communist strategist.
Rove has been plotting this out for 20 years now. He helped expand the Republican party and pushed the war knowing it would all blow up in the Republicans' face. His next plot is to undermine Obama and propel McCain into the presidency with a 22% approval rating. He will let McCain take us to Iran. At that point, America will will be so outraged, people will take to the streets. Rove will emerge as the next great leader of the proletariat. Obama will come out from behind him with a sickle and slaughter the far right and the people will emerge victorious!!! We will then take over all the war machinery and blow up Halliburton and the Carlyle Group, access all the secret CIA files and destroy all corruption.

Glory to Comrade Rove!!!
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whathappened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
36. that may very well be the dems plan
but this do nothing congress are takeing alot of people down the drain well they are waiting in the fox holes , i myself have had to file bankrupsy this year , loseing everything but my house and car because my wife lost her job do to a broken arm and med bills
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
38. The other explanation: they're willing collaborators.
The "weak loser victim" routine is just smokescreen. Most of them are simply corporate whores.
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Super Soaker Sniper Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
40. Since taking office in 2007
The Democratic Majority has not shown me anything to believe that they would be smart enough to think this up. Bush does not even have beat them anymore. A stern look is enough to send them scurrying to cast their vote giving him whatever he says he want's. And all I have heard for two terms is how stupid Bush is. Stupid enough to get Congress to overwhelmingly approve a war and not only that, get Democrats who after calling to an end for this war in televised red faced rants, crater and fund it time after time. The shrieks of outrage over illegal wire tapping and when it comes to a vote, the Democrats vote in favor of it. No one in the administration will go to prison and Libby was the only conviction. Bush will skip out of office without even getting close to hearings on Impeachment and will kick each Democratic Congress in the balls as he leaves. And he is the stupid one.

We have gotten so lucky that Bush did not show any real interest in drilling in Anwar or off the coast because I have no doubt that the Democrats would have given it to him. Ditto for a war with Iran.
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