Most of you don't know this about me, it's time you do

[Omaha Steve]

I'm taking a break from my studies tonight. It is time something about me becomes public. I've heard many people take a stand against affirmative action. Because my father was Cherokee / white, I may have been (but don't know) that affirmative action may have played a role in my being hired full time over 10 years ago. I had worked almost 10 years as a seasonal, part time, and provisional. Now there is a group trying to change the state constitution to bar affirmative action. I'm against this for many a reason. I hope most of my friends here are too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=164x1680

Omaha Steve

[Warpy]

1. The main thing everybody needs to remember about

affirmative action is that it only gets you through the door. If you want to stay there, you are going to have to work hard and apply your intelligence.

I had "men's" jobs before affirmative action was passed. Affirmative action just meant they had to start paying me the prevailing wage instead of reclassifying the position with a lesser name and paycheck. Because I was good at what I did, I stayed there until it was time to do something else.

It is no shame to have been helped by affirmative action. It is an honor.

[KT2000]

2. Without affirmative action,

access to jobs and education would be denied to minorities in the US.
I don't know where people get off pretending that everything is all OK now and everyone has equal access. What a fairy tale. Would anything have changed without affirmative action? No. Will things revert if if there is no affirmative action? Yes.

There were rewards for bigotry - the biggest slice of the pie - guaranteed. Affirmative action interrupted that.

[kestrel91316]

3. Well put. Thank you.

[annabanana]

4. Absoluetly Steve.

A level playing field is essential. It will be quite awhile until the sat-upon catch up.

[tularetom]

5. My father was also white/native American but we never knew this

until after his death. I mean you could tell by looking at him but he never told us anything about his parents. He grew up pre affirmative action so any benefits he could have realized were unavailable until he was in his 50's or 60's. Obviously I had no idea I could benefit from affirmative action so I never did. My feeling is that it is still necessary at least for the foreseeable future and I'd oppose any constitutional amendment to ban it.

[Cleita]

6. Got your back and I know from personal experience

(not mine but others) that affirmative action is the only way to break through the white ceiling in the labor market.

[InkAddict]

17. Hah, my very WASP husband's name

led one potential employer to decide pre-interview that he was Asian and frank-out admitted that he was very noticeably surprised at interview handshaking time...he had expected to bow, I guess. Needless to say, no job there.

Then there's the realtors...shhh, off the record, you don't want to live there and I'd prefer not to show that one to you...but if you insist...Well, we bought that house in that once beautifully integrated area and lived there for 17 years. My kids have friends of all colors, faiths, etc...However, I half expect that recent datamining of demographics (read: wrong zip code) had it's hand in thwarting job opportunities.

One cannot legislate away bigotry in a system that's "at will" unless you also include REGULATIONS, something the beloved Mr. Reagan did away with ON EVERYTHING at the unanimous behest of the Chicago boys who dislike those with the slightest ethnicity and diversity, as well as those WASPS who are so unpatriotic (Read: financially challenged) enough to be unable to hold such narrow views. There are few things worse than ignorance and MORANs who follow these dark leaders(?)take the cake.

[ThomCat]

7. Racist, sexist bastards are against affirmative action

because they think only they should benefit from anything. x(

Do they really think that things will be better if we go back to the all-whiteboy clubs we had before Affirmative Action? :wtf:

You don't take down a helpful program, even if you think it's flawed, unless you have something better to replace it with.

[roguevalley]

8. i want justice in this country and affirmative action is one of the tools

that gets people there. Some day in a perfect world we will be judged by the content of our characters but until then, there must be a way to get there. You may have gotten there by affirmative action, who knows but you stay there because of your skills. Never doubt it, never forget it.

[windoe]

9. K & R

[RB TexLa]

10. And considering most jobs are filled by word of mouth, it is still very necessary.

[deaniac21]

11. It would be a new Trail of Tears!

[me b zola]

14. How do you feel about affirmative action?

You never state your thoughts on any subject, just snarky retorts. Just wondering. TIA.

[Omaha Steve]

16. Not snarky this time, Cherokee Indians forcibly removed from North Georgia "the trail of tears"

http://ngeorgia.com/history/nghisttt.html

"I would sooner be honestly damned than hypocritically immortalized"
Davy Crockett
His political career destroyed because he supported the Cherokee, he left Washington D. C. and headed west to Texas.


Between 1790 and 1830 the population of Georgia increased six-fold. The western push of the settlers created a problem. Georgians continued to take Native American lands and force them into the frontier. By 1825 the Lower Creek had been completely removed from the state under provisions of the Treaty of Indian Springs. By 1827 the Creek were gone.

Cherokee had long called western Georgia home. The Cherokee Nation continued in their enchanted land until 1828. It was then that the rumored gold, for which De Soto had relentlessly searched, was discovered in the North Georgia mountains.

In his book Don't Know Much About History, Kenneth C. Davis writes:

Hollywood has left the impression that the great Indian wars came in the Old West during the late 1800's, a period that many think of simplistically as the "cowboy and Indian" days. But in fact that was a "mopping up" effort. By that time the Indians were nearly finished, their subjugation complete, their numbers decimated. The killing, enslavement, and land theft had begun with the arrival of the Europeans. But it may have reached its nadir when it became federal policy under President (Andrew) Jackson.

The Cherokees in 1828 were not nomadic savages. In fact, they had assimilated many European-style customs, including the wearing of gowns by Cherokee women. They built roads, schools and churches, had a system of representational government, and were farmers and cattle ranchers. A Cherokee alphabet, the "Talking Leaves" was perfected by Sequoyah.

In 1830 the Congress of the United States passed the "Indian Removal Act." Although many Americans were against the act, most notably Tennessee Congressman Davy Crockett, it passed anyway. President Jackson quickly signed the bill into law. The Cherokees attempted to fight removal legally by challenging the removal laws in the Supreme Court and by establishing an independent Cherokee Nation. At first the court seemed to rule against the Indians. In Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, the Court refused to hear a case extending Georgia's laws on the Cherokee because they did not represent a sovereign nation. In 1832, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Cherokee on the same issue in Worcester v. Georgia. In this case Chief Justice John Marshall ruled that the Cherokee Nation was sovereign, making the removal laws invalid. The Cherokee would have to agree to removal in a treaty. The treaty then would have to be ratified by the Senate.

By 1835 the Cherokee were divided and despondent. Most supported Principal Chief John Ross, who fought the encroachment of whites starting with the 1832 land lottery. However, a minority(less than 500 out of 17,000 Cherokee in North Georgia) followed Major Ridge, his son John, and Elias Boudinot, who advocated removal. The Treaty of New Echota, signed by Ridge and members of the Treaty Party in 1835, gave Jackson the legal document he needed to remove the First Americans. Ratification of the treaty by the United States Senate sealed the fate of the Cherokee. Among the few who spoke out against the ratification were Daniel Webster and Henry Clay, but it passed by a single vote. In 1838 the United States began the removal to Oklahoma, fulfilling a promise the government made to Georgia in 1802. Ordered to move on the Cherokee, General John Wool resigned his command in protest, delaying the action. His replacement, General Winfield Scott, arrived at New Echota on May 17, 1838 with 7000 men. Early that summer General Scott and the United States Army began the invasion of the Cherokee Nation.

FULL article at link above.

http://wfweblodge.com/cherokeetrail.html

The Cherokee rose story.



No better symbol exists of the pain and suffering of the "Place Where They Cried" (Known today as "The Trail of Tears") than the Cherokee Rose. The mothers of the Cherokee grieved so much that the chiefs prayed for a sign to lift the mother's spirits and give them strength to care for their children. From that day forward, a beautiful new flower, a rose, grew wherever a mother's tear fell to the ground. The rose is white, for the mother's tears. It has a gold center, for the gold taken from the Cherokee lands, and seven leaves on each stem that represent the seven Cherokee clans that made the sad journey. To this day, the Cherokee Rose prospers along the route of the "Trail of Tears". It is now the official flower of the State of Georgia....The name, Cherokee Rose, is a local appellation derived from the Cherokee Indians who widely distributed the plant, which elsewhere is known by the botanical name of rosa sinica. Growing wild the rose is a high climbing shrub, frequently attaining the proportions of a vine, is excessively thorny and generously supplied with leaves of a vivid green. Its blooming time is in the early spring but favorable conditions will produce a second flowering in the fall of the year. In color, the rose is a waxy white and large golden center and the petals are of an exquisite velvety texture. Because of its hardy nature the plant is well adapted to hedge purposes and has been used extensively in this fashion through out the South. Source: Big Eagle

[deaniac21]

22. I weep for your education...

[TBF]

12. Omaha Steve, congratulations on getting where you are. As a woman

who worked in the legal profession I am well aware that without affirmative action we wouldn't even have professional jobs, not to mention the fact that on average women are STILL not paid as much as men in the same positions. I worked in large lawfirms in the 1990's and early 2000's before "retiring" last year to stay home with my small children. One old-school firm I worked at in a major city actually had a dress code for women and pantsuits were frowned upon (this is a very old established firm that was in the top 5 in terms of size and prestige in this country). There were a few token minority attorneys, but most people of color in the firm were working on staff or in the mail/duplicating departments. This was in the early 1990's - less than 20 years ago.

Anyone who thinks the time for Affirmative Action has passed is most likely an Anglo white male republican.

[LiberalAndProud]

13. Decline to sign.

The paid petition circulators are being dishonest when asking for signatures, claiming that the petition will end discrimination in Nebraska. The initiative is sponsored by out-of-state organizations, and one can only wonder why they are tampering with our constitution.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

15. I am an advocate for LEVELING the field,...making us,...well,...just people.

I want to be PEOPLE,...whether on the field playing or cheering,...

I'm just tired of being SEPARATE RATHER THAN COMMON,...people.

We could do so damn much,...together.

*shrug* If we wanted to.

[InkAddict]

18. Does your "leveling the field" include employer perks for

hiring those who obtained their education via the taxpayer-funded welfare to work programs instead of those who personally saved and earned every penny that was spent to obtain the very same education without a hand-out? Seems to me that once the knowledge and certifications have been obtained, the field has been leveled and NO FURTHER EMPLOYER PERKS should be passed out at the hiring level.

[H2O Man]

19. Could you make

a short list of the specific perks that you are speaking of? I'm a retired social worker, and am familiar with most of the federal regulations involving educational and employment opportunities. I'm curious what it is that you have in mind.

Thanks.

[InkAddict]

24. I think maybe there's been a communication fubar - what I meant was ...

While attending community college I ran across a classified ad offering the educational program I was taking at a community college as a free Welfare to Work 12-month crash program for which students would get credit for attendance and collect their check. Well, okay, job training is good, says I.

However, I soon learned that our mutual prospective employers were being offered big cash tax breaks for hiring those welfare persons (who got their education for free) though that employer did not get the perk if they hired me (who paid out-of-pocket by working FT second-shift rather than rack up a debt). Some leveling -- all things being equal (GPA) and even given all those other subjective preferences of the interviewer, the employer was getting a money-break for hiring those that hadn't cared about school or work before they were forced to learn something and take some responsibility.

Then, just before I graduated, ALL of the follow-on programs at the 4-year schools closed down in my state, yet they kept on claiming it was a "hot" career field - Health Information Mgmt.

[gollygee]

20. Without affirmative action, there is negative action, not neutrality

negative action is otherwise known as "last hired, first fired". That's reality without affirmative action, and if affirmative action is gone, it will be reality again.

[K Gardner]

21. Recommended, Steve.. thank you. I stand with you.

[Omaha Steve]

23. Thank you ALL

For an adult discussion without hurting peoples feelings. I believe we are a sensitive bunch.

[Ilsa]

25. My hubby is one-eighth Cherokee. But since he can't "prove" it,

he's never been able to take advantage of that aspect of his status. He is also half Czech, part Welsh, English, etc.

I think AA needs to remain as it is.