My nephew joined the National Guard. I am soo upset!!!

[demgurl]

I understand it is someone else's life and that I can not live it for them but I can not believe how the rest of the family has let him do this.

About two weeks ago my nephew told me he joined. His boot camp starts in September. He knew my concerns and said that they PROMISED him that he would not go overseas to Afghanistan or Iraq. I knew Army recruiters had lied about this but I was just not sure if Nation Guard recruiters had been lying. I know I was not ready to trust anyone who gives an absolute in the military, especially under this administration!

He is young and stupid but it is his Mom for whom my stomach is churning over. She is very smart but she signed for him to be able to enter the NG at an early age rather than waiting for him to come of age. She told us he signed up to make up for stealing something from his brother and his Mom's boyfriend! Surely there are better, safer, ways to make up such mistakes.

Meanwhile, my nephew has already spent his $20,000 "signing bonus" in his imagination. He has been looking at truck after truck!

I have looked up information and found that 20% of our military over there is made up of the National Guard and there is no reason why my nephew should be exempt from that.

I wrote to his grandmother last night and gave her tons of information. (he is living with her right now) She wrote me back seemingly not that worried saying we will have to pray for him!

I have never ever had ulcers but after hearing this news and fretting for him, I have developed ulcers and they hurt a LOT. We try and tell him they lied to him but he laughs because I guess teens know better than adults. I am so sick with worry over this!

[DS1]

1. They'll want that 20,000 back if he gets his leg blown off and can't serve

his entire contract. Might want to tell him that, it could put some perspective in him. The recruiters are not his friends.

[demgurl]

3. I sent that to his grandmother......

and was part of what she said to pray over!

If you went to work at KMart for $5/hour and they only paid you $3, you would quit because they lied to you and how can you trust them? What is the difference here? You are putting your life on the line for the military and they lie just to get you to sign up. WTF? (excuse my language) How can you trust an organization who lies to you that big and does not give you money free and clear just for laying your life on the line.

I have written his recruiter asking for real answers in print. My nephew volunteered the recruiter's card because of the concerns I have. I have threatened her with media if she does not give me straight answers to pass on to my family. This whole thing makes me sick. If my sister-in-law had made him wait for his birthday then we would have President Obama in office by the time his boot camp rolled around. A few months can make all the difference but he is shafted once he is sent over there.

[iamthebandfanman]

22. some recruiters will

SAY ANYTHING to get you to join. thats for sure.

definitely dont have your best interest in mind, only their quota im sure.

btw, that doesnt go for all of them... cause there are some genuinely nice and good intentioned people doing the work out there.

[speakclearly]

41. Hogwash

If you are injured in battle you get a medical retirement which means you keep any bonus you were given plus get a lifetime pension!

She may not like war, but volunteering to protect your state (what the National Guard does), helping in the occurance of emergency or disaster, or even defending your country are very honorable things! Hate Bush. Hate Republicans. Hat war. pray for peace. But congradualte those who are willing to serve your community!

[DS1]

42. It's already happened. You lose

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/004754.php

[demgurl]

44. speakclearly......

it may have been that way at one time but there have been cases, reported in the news, where someone has been injured, come back, and been ordered to pay back the cash.

If you haev not heard about the problems my nephew has had then you should read the rest of this thread. Anyone who thinks this boy is in any shape to make a decision like this is out of their ever loving mind. He has a ton of family who does not even want to hear the proof we have of what the military is doing to dupe our children into joining.

IF he had grown up as a healthy boy, and IF he was truly informed of what really is going on, and IF he made a fully informed decision based on the truth, I may not like it but I would stand by him and his decision. I do not believe any of these have happened and therefore I am troubled.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. By the way, read about his life... and at times, as much as you may hate the service

this may be exactly what he needs and the ANG has the least risks.

It is something that may help him to focus on life.

That said, Boot will be hell for him... (as it is for most folks) so the best you can do at this point is be the support he obviously will need and is not getting from his closest family

[demgurl]

56. Oh no, I do not hate the service.

It is something I think is required in our society but not under George Bush. My first husband was in the army. I do not dislike them in the least. Any other time in our history I may even look up to my nephew. Under this man I can do no such thing.

I can and do offer him support although the rest of the family gives him unconditional support since they are all enablers. (what else do you call it when a drug abuser has a relapse and her mm comes to you saying it is only a small relapse and that she needs her children, during this troubled time, more than ever?) They are all enablers right down to not confronting someone, when asked to, when young children are being abused. Support? He, and most everyone else in this family, get nothing but support - even if it is to their detriment!!!!

Boot camp will be easy for him. He did boot camp to get his high school diploma and he had the best grades in his class and did the best at all the exercises. I am not worried about that at all. I am, however, worried that this entire time he has been trained by an abusive man to torture his brother and that those tendencies may carry over into the military and people may be hurt. I am most afraid that Abu Gharib would fit him like a glove.

Think I am using hyperbole? At one point the mother's boyfriend commanded him to lock his brother in a pig's cage which was filled with feces. The boyfriend then commanded my nephew to roll the cage down hill all while his brother screamed frantically to let him out. Then the boyfriend commanded him to do it again and he did. I found out because the younger brother told me and then I tracked down the 5 children who were witnesses to the event! Yes, I am afriad he may fit in a little too well with this military.

[CountAllVotes]

2. my cousin's kid just did the same thing

he enlisted in the Army. What a fool. I haven't heard from my aunt in awhile now and I'm wondering why. :shrug:

I hope her grandson (my cousin's kid) is ok!

What a worry. It was claimed that no money was involved in this "deal". I rather wonder about that after reading your post!

:argh:

:kick:

[demgurl]

7. I would wonder, too.

I ope your cousin's kid comes back safe and sound. I will keep him in my thoughts when I meditate for my nephew. In a common sense world we would not be having this conversation.

I wonder if it is worse to join for money or not getting any extra money.

[CountAllVotes]

16. they were quickly grooming him for being a "platoon leader" ...

last I heard. I suspect by now being that he has "graduated" from boot camp he is likely in Iraq or Afghanistan. :(

I told my aunt that she should tell her grandson to find something else to do - anything else would suffice just fine.

He went anyway and seems to be liking it last I heard. However, that was before he graduated from boot camp I might add.

Sure makes you wonder :wtf: the deal was! :mad:

In any event, they got him and I wonder if he is still alive I'll have to admit as the silence in rather deafening. :(

[demgurl]

23. My thoughts go out to you.

I have written more about my nephew, below, so others may understand part of my worries and that he should not be there. I dearly hope your relative is still alive. I am sorry for all you go through. It would be one thing if this was a just war like the first or second world wars but to think someone could die just to line the pockets of war criminals is so sad.

I must admit I was afraid they might really want my nephew over there because he dropped out of high school and got his diploma in a boot camp for troubled kids who had dropped out. The camp was sponsored by the military and he graduated with top honors. (very top of his class!) I just know they would love to get him over in this illegal occupation.

[Squatch]

39. He won't become a platoon leader

unless he goes to OCS. However, that should not stop him from aspiring to lead...when he does get out of the army, troop leadership translates *very well* in the corporate world and could result in increased opportunities.

[Maeve]

4. Different units have different risks

It depends on what kind of job he's signed up for, as well. (I have a son in the Air National Guard, btw, and my kids are friends with a few Marines who have served time in Iraq, so I have some sympathy for your fears!)

They may NOT have lied to him--he may be as safe as anyone in the military can be . Not enough info yet to see.

[demgurl]

10. He joined the ANG....

but according to him he wants a "job" with them "driving around". He is not in it to learn to fly or anything of that nature. He wants to drive people around I guess? I know a lot of people in Iraq have died due to IED's on the roadside.

I hope you are right and he is safe. I just do not trust our government.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. As enlisted he'd not fly anywhere

it sounds like he will be doing Logistics Support, and that mostly means working at a warehouse somewhere

[demgurl]

46. Does that mean less chance to be in Iraq?

I am wondering because I still have not heard from the recriter and you would think she would answer right away if he was told the truth.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. The Air guard... in another time I'd say less chance

these days... nobody should promise anything. After all, we've lost submariners in Iraq and trust me, there is no place for an LA class to surface in that sea of sand.

That said, he is going to boot in september, and to A school later on... by the time he gets out of A school, assuming we pull out immediately, he should be able to dodge that bullet.

[demgurl]

55. I hope you are right.

I am counting on PResident obama to get us out at once. Thank you, your words have brought me a little comfort as that is what I am dearly hoping will happen.

[Debau2005]

5. My husband looked at getting back in

We are financially hurting, we just married, and now have 2 house payments. His is up for sale. He thought the signing bonus would be what we needed. He had left the guard in August of 2007. He went to the recruiter before he told me about it!!

Luckily for me, the larger bonus does not apply to people coming back in. They want younger recruits, not the battle hardened 38 year olds like my husband. I tried to sympathize with him, but after everything the military has done to him, it was hard.

They state he has 12 years of service, he has 16 years, they have either misfiled or LOST 4 years of reserves. He can spend his money to fight it and prove his service. They denied his GI Bill for truck driving school, so we are about to fight that. The list for PTSD counseling is so long, he may be 80 before he comes up for help. So we are dealing with that privately. When he returned from Iraq in 2006, after losing 3 troop members, and getting blown off the road, they changed his unit from Calvary to Infantry, so he and a lot of others had to find other units. His new unit had not been to Iraq, so there was rumor that they were coming up soon, so he got out when his time came. Not to soon after that troop was sent over.

I am sorry your nephew has taken this route. We had a server in a restaurant that mentioned joining when he saw my husbands Iraq service cap. My husband told him the truth, we don't know if he changed his mind, but he left us with a more thoughtful idea in his head.

[demgurl]

15. Big hugs to you , Debau2005.

You should not have to fight to get what you earned. I hope everything clears up for you and your husband. Thank you fo rspreading the word to others so that they may know the truth.

[msedano]

6. worry, support, trust

I'm a Vietnam era draftee. After training, when I was told to report "for orders to Vietnam," my wife had your response. Then, she wanted me to desert. I flat-out refused the entire notion. As it happened, I got orders to report to cold war Korea and was discharged without a minute of combat.

The military offers a lot of unique experiences other than maiming or death. For some people, Army service becomes a positive, or mostly so. Most immediately, the boy will learn a lot about becoming an adult, becoming a man. Obviously, thinking pickup truck, he's struggling with that transition and failing. But, it is his money to with as he will, just as he's elected with his life and livelihood.

Tell him you expect him to win the honor award in Basic. Put pressure on him to be successful, that's a good way to support his decision.

mvs

[ensho]

12. "becoming a man"

but what kind of man.

I'd rather have a man that had never, ever been military of any kind.

[Squatch]

14. A man who can make and follow through on very tough decisions

:shrug:

[KeineAhnung]

18. My my...

What a broad brush you use....

[ensho]

19. what's broad about it?

I've been anti military and war my whole, long life.

the horrors of WWII did it for me.

[demgurl]

26. I have nothing against most military.

My father was a contractor, on military bases, but worked for the government. My first husband was in the military. I have known lots of military people and have even resided on a base. There are just wars. This is an illegal occupation done to line the pockets of a select few. By the way, it would still not be OK if it was meant to line the pockets of many instead of a few.

I may be worried about my nephew's safety but it is because he is dreamily going about spending his imaginary money and assuring me the recruiters said he would not go overseas. I am mad his mom has not stepped up and let him sign up when he turns of age and not beforehand. I am mad that he is being lied to and going into it blindly. I am mad our government is lying to people to get cannon fodder.

This may be a positive experience for others but this kid has had a hard life and I am not sure he has not signed up for this out of Stockholm Syndrome. (read what I wrote about him in another part of this thread) That is much different than the experience of most.

The worst part of all of this? He sat at our table telling us he will get money for college. We told him his Grandfather is willing to pay for his college and his face was puzzled. We explained his Grandfather sent out an email to all of the adults stating the grand children's education would be basically paid for. The boy was stunned and had nothing to say. His mom signed him up without even telling him he had other options! He had no idea school was an option.

It is nice to make decisions but isn't it nicer to make informed decisions?

[msedano]

38. We agree

on nicer to make informed decisions and the tragedy that some folks see no alternative in their life other than the military.

Your nephew may indeed have no other alternative to his crappy existence than the total escapism of an Army barracks. In many respects his experience will be exactly like the experience of so many who have gone before him. I saw what those kids turned into when left entirely without supervision, or with the wrong kind of leadership. Total insanity, and I mean that in the worst way. Drinking. Whoring. Always broke. No moral compass whatsoever. When I reached my first posting, I asked my Sergeant how in the world he'd found a "girlfriend" named Jasmine way out in the wilds of our remote outpost. He laughed and said, "Sedano, you can name them anything you want!")

The men I knew who became Lifers used the Army as their security blanket, owing to that total insanity practiced during off-duty days. The guys who came to their senses made dramatic changes in their lifestyle and, I hope, their post-Army lives. I fervently hope so; they all were good people, whoever they were when I knew them.

If you have a moment, have a look at my Army-daze website for an inkling of what I mean. http://www.readraza.com/hawk/index.htm

It's too late for buyer's remorse and maybe his mother took deliberate steps to save the kid from college, where our culture tends to eat our young who cannot fit into that environment. He'll survive the Army, and after his discharge, his mind and emotions will be well suited to college.

Please understand your nephew has my unequivocal support for his decision. I hope you'll understand why and be able to render a modicum of support for his efforts, as I noted in the initial post.

Regards,
mvs

[demgurl]

47. I support anything I feel is in my nephew's best interest.

I have already told him how proud we are of him as has his Uncle, my husband. I do wonder if the mom knows what is best for her children if she has permitted her abusive boyfriend to have at her kids for about 12 years now. She has not been blind to this since two sets of people in the family have stopped talking to her at different times due to the abuse and her not kicking out her boyfriend. Heck, her sister would not even let her own kids near the man lest they be abused!!! This is not some secret.

You want to know her judgement on school? She almost send her second son to bott camp to get his high school degree. When the 2nd son's psychiatrist said he needed "intensive inhouse treatment for a minimum of 6 months" she looked into boot camp for the child. This is what my nephews have lived under so I do not trust her motives.

In fact, if you want to know what I think went on I will tell you. The same way he said we had to take the boys or they would be put in foster care, I believe the boyfriend found something missing and the sadistic SOB (what do you call a man who teaches the boys how to wrestle and gave extra points to each one when they would grab each other's testicles and cause enough pain for crying?) said he would call the cops if my nephew did not join the reserves. This is no less than what he demanded of my sister-in-law - go to rehab, you guys take the boys or I will leave and the boys will go to foster care. I am pretty sure that is why this all has happened.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. Most boys become men by means other than being in the military.

Means that, in my opinion, are superior.

[still_one]

8. There is no way they can guarentee he won't be shipped to Iraq, Iran, or Afganistan

Sorry for what you are going through, but it is his decision, and for better or worse he will have to live with it

Hopefully, he will stay out of harms way

[noamnety]

9. Sounds like he signed up for delayed entry.

That means there is still time for him to change his mind - until you actually go in, you aren't officially in the service no matter what you've signed.

Instead of trying to "talk him out of it" which will put him in a resistant mindset (human nature is what it is, challenges make us defensive) I would approach it from the angle of making sure he understands the potential effects, so he can plan accordingly.

So instead of saying "you're a fool for counting on that bonus" - talk about budgeting, and the need - just to be safe - to put that money away, and once he's been in long enough that the army can't take it back, THEN figure out a percentage to put away for retirement and a percentage to splurge on himself with.

One of my friends has a boyfriend who started talking to a recruiter, even got to the point of giving himself a buzzcut and was ready to go. She asked me to help "talk him out of it." Well, there's no point in doing that, his opinion is more valuable than mine. What I did instead was I asked if I could go over there and show them a copy of The Ground Truth - because it has some of my friends in it.

I gave a bit of a disclaimer up front, said I didn't know if he'd find it offensive or not, but I wanted to watch it with my friend and I thought he'd find it interesting. So the three of us watched it.

By the end of the movie, he had decided not to enlist. It's almost a year later now, he still hasn't enlisted. His brother is back from Iraq recently, and I think watching that movie gave them some insight into PTSD that they didn't have before, and issues his brother is facing suddenly don't seem all that glorious.

If you have a chance to sit with him and show him that movie, please do. It will give him a chance to hear straight from soldiers what their experiences were. And it will give him space to sort out his own thoughts and construct his own meaning from the movie, rather than just reacting defiantly to a lecture from you.

[Squatch]

13. You're incorrect about the DEP

The DEP is a legal, binding contract. When the recruit signs the DEP Enlistment Contract, he/she is legally agreeing to the following:

(Paragraph 8a of the Enlistment Contract): "FOR ENLISTMENT IN THE DELAYED ENTRY/ENLISTMENT PROGRAM (DEP): I understand that I will be ordered to active duty as a Reservist unless I report to the place shown in item 4 above by (date) for enlistment in the regular component of the United States (branch of service)."

It means that if an applicant failed to show up to ship out to basic training, the military COULD order the individual to active duty. If the individual refused, the military could legally court-martial the individual, if they wanted to.

[noamnety]

17. I'm quite correct about DEP.

I work with a truth-in-recruitment group, I'm fairly well read on this stuff.

Here's a good resource for getting out of DEP: http://www.objector.org/girights/delayed-enlistment-program.html#how

How does someone get out of the Delayed Enlistment Program?
Fundamentally, the way to get out of the DEP is NOT TO GO, not to report on your ship date. Some people simply do not go; others choose to write a letter stating their decision not to go. In either case, the results are the same: you do not have to go to MEPS on the ship date.

What are the consequences if I do not go to MEPS on my ship date?

There are no consequences and no records as a result of withdrawing from the DEP that currently have any effect on things like employment or your legal record. This is the case for non-citizens as well as citizens.

The Army Recruiting regulations state that recruiters will not threaten, coerce, manipulate, or intimidate DEP members, nor may they obstruct separation requests. (USAREC Reg 601-56, 3-1c). The Navy Regulations state, threatening DEP member with possible disciplinary actions for failing to enlist or coercing DEP members to fulfill their contractual obligations is inconsistent with the concept of the all-volunteer force (COMNAVCRUITCOMIST 1130.8F, 6A-6, Note 1). The Marines don't have this clear language prohibiting harassment, but do make it clear that the individual can leave the DEP. Their Recruiting Regulations, under Desire for Release or Intent Not to Report state, If the individual insists on being released from the enlistment, the individual will be discharged . (MCO P1100.72C, 4301, 3d(2)).

Squatch, if you can find a SINGLE example of a person getting a court martial for refusing to ship through a DEP program during the last several decades, please cite a source. I object to you using that as a scare tactic.

This never happens. Never. Not a single person has been involuntarily ordered to active duty, court-martialed, or otherwise prosecuted in civilian courts for being in the DEP and refusing to ship out to boot camp in *AT LEAST* the past 27 years. Not one single person.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/dep.htm

[Squatch]

21. Well, you learn something every day.

:thumbsup:

"I object to you using that as a scare tactic."

I did not intend to use this as a scare tactic, I am simply relaying information that I knew (at that time) to be true. As you pointed out, I was incorrect.

[noamnety]

53. Fair enough.

You won't be the first person in the military who thinks they are well informed about the rights of enlistees, who misses the mark in one regard or another. You won't be the last. It's a sign of a systemic problem that even intelligent folks who are currently in have trouble getting the real story. When I was in, I was badly misinformed.

Just please take the time, if you are advising people on their rights, to research and understand what those rights really are, cause often it's not what we've been led to believe.

[sammytko]

66. And until you get to MEPS

and raise your right hand, you do not have to go.

My nephew went that far and changed his mind.

MEPS is the final processing place before you are sent to boot camp. You get examined, sign your contract and swear in..

[demgurl]

32. We sort of tried to talk to him about budgeting.....

but he would hear none of it. We even tried to delay him getting a truck saying how the prices are all sliding down right now and that in a year or so he would be amazed at the difference in prices. I still do not think he is buying that even though he says others have said the same to him.

I do wonder, however, after the other stuff you wrote whether I can get him out without him even participating in the actions! I am wondering if I go to his recruiter and state all the mental problems, and other law problems, he has had AND carbon copy the media, whether they will just tell him he is not their type of material and they will drop him. OF course, at that point the boyfriend will tell him he is an even bigger looser than he originally thought if the government will not accept him. I was truly convinced that my nephew would end up in jail for killing his mom's boyfriend when he got in his late teens. I am still amazed it has not happened.

Thank you for all the information, especially the part about it not being a done deal just yet. At least I may have time. THANK YOU!

[noamnety]

35. If the mental problems are documented

and the legal problems have been admitted to as well, that might well be a DQ which should have required a waiver, or multiple waivers.

It's fairly common for recruiters to try to coerce kids into lying about their background to get in, and that would be an ethics violation, which - IF disclosed - could be a career problem for the recruiter.

I hate to say it, but they will likely care more about their career than whether or not your nephew is a good fit for the military.

I sent you a private message as well, with specifics for finding more answers.

[demgurl]

37. We threatened the mom at one time.....

and she allegedly got them into some therapy. We told her we would go to Child Welfare if she did not get those boys help. If she did go, perhaps some of this stuff has been documented. My enabler mother-in-law said she was checking and the boys were, indeed going. This is the same person that said she saw the bill for the clinic and my sister-in-law did bring my nephew to get the glass out of his head. All my sister-in-law would need to do is say she was doing something and that would be enough for my mother-in-law.

I got your private message and am going to take it to heart and do something. Thanks!

[Squatch]

11. I am in the National Guard

It's actually a really good gig. I commend your nephew for joining up.

Now, the best thing you can do is to support him and his decision and not constantly wring your hands over what may or may not occur during his service obligation. While the possibility that he will deploy to OIF/OEF is pretty good, know that he will deploy as a highly-trained soldier very capable of doing his duty and doing it well.

[stanwyck]

25. Thanks for your post. As the mother of a Marine

(with 3 tours to Iraq - now active duty in Washington, D.C, out of Quantico) I appreciate your comments. I, too, was extremely apprehensive when my son left college to join the Marines. We're a very liberal family who feel the war is wrong. My son enlisted before we went into Iraq. I was continually asked "how I "let" this happen". Well, my husband and I raised our children to be independent thinkers. My son, a liberal (yes, they exist in the Marines) decided this was what he wanted to do. When a young man is 19, he is past having Mama and Papa make his decisions. We did sit down with him and make sure he understood exactly what the contract meant. 4 yrs. means 8 yrs. And we tried to help him understand that recruiters make many promises. We also asked that he wait six months before he joined -- just to make sure this is really what he wanted. He did wait six months. And then he enlisted. I realize many liberals have a difficult time with military service. But people need to understand that a person has a right to choose his/her future path.

[demgurl]

29. stanwyck......

Thanks for your son's service to our country. I, for one, understand the need for a military and fully support them as long as they are doing what is right and not following illegal orders. (torture, illegal occupation, etc....)

I only wish my nephew was 18 and could make well informed decisions. Your son is so lucky to have a Mom like you. I wish I even had a Mom like you! You cared and it really illustrates the dynamic there that he waited 6 months. I hope he is happy and successful - now and always.

I understand about people making up their own minds, but my nephew is 17 and his mom has not showed sound judgment raising him and his brother. (read my other post about abuse and drug use) My nephew, to be polite, is fucked up. he is not allowed to live at home. He has lived with years of abuse up until today. He was sitting at my table telling me how the boyfriend told him, when he lost his KMart job, that he was worthless and it was his fault and he would never get anywhere in the world. (par for the course of the last 12 years or so) My nephew got his job back because the manager had been in the wrong (with a raise even) and he could not wait to tell his Mom's boyfriend so he could see that he was not a piece of shit!

The boy is messed up from abuse and wants to please someone who has abused him. This is who needs to make an accurate decision on false information?

The real thing to be mad about, though, is I have paid money into this government all my life and the government I supported would lie to my nephew just to get their hands on him? I can not see how any reasonable person could not be upset over that!

[stanwyck]

54. And I understand your concerns

The military, with its structure, can seem very inviting to a "lost boy". There are many. My son has brought many of his Marine friends home with him over the past few years. There have been at least a couple who made a hasty decision, which they later regretted. Unfortunately, there is no quick exit. The Marines require 4 years - plus. Joining the military needs to be a very carefully considered decision, hopefully with the advice of trust-worthy adults who can bring up issues a teenager might not consider. Also, with economic times as difficult as they are right now, particularly for young people, the steady paycheck and immediate bonus are very tempting.
I'd advise anyone who has a child considering the military to make sure they visit the recruiter with their son or daughter. The perspective of an adult can be critical.
I will tell you this, though, it's possible your nephew will find himself in the military. My son has. He likes being a Marine. He has confidence in himself and is again pursuring his college education. I wish your nephew the best. He's lucky to have you in his life.

[demgurl]

20. JUST TO CLEAR UP A FEW THINGS........

They very first thing I said to him, when he announced this, was that I would think about him everyday and hope for his safe return. I did not even talk about lies until a few weeks later.

Just so you know my history with this boy, I will give you the following short but to the point past.

- His brother came to his Uncle and I at age 8 telling us they were physically abused by the boyfriend. We tried to get the family to face facts but none of them would.

- My sister-in-law ended up hooked on drugs and the boyfriend told us if we did not look after the boys they would go into foster care and so we took them into our home. At that point we heard even more about the boy's abuse.

- While in our care my nephew tried to commit suicide because the mother-s boyfriend said it was all his fault his Mom was hooked on crack.

- When we went to the Thanksgiving event, the day after the suicide attempt, (at age ten) everyone agreed that the boys needed to be back in the house with their Mom and the boyfriend that made them feel so badly.

- The boys went back and I felt like I failed them. When I called to offer the family evidence of all of the abuse one of them said to me that if the boys ever went to hospital with broken bones, she would never advocate the boys being away from their mother! I had failed this boy and his brother.

This boy has had a messed up life where he says the boyfriend says mean things to him to this day. The boyfriend said he stole (really, you punched him in the stomach for punishments and he may have stolen from you? Hmmmm.....) from him and now to make up for that he has him joining the ANG just to make up for it. Does any of this seem disproportionate to you? This boy has run away from home before and is not allowed to live there right now - thus he spent a few nights on our couch as well as living with other family members. We were all told to babysit him and work him hard as punishment for him not being allowed to live at home. (we did neither, he is basically an adult having graduated from school and being entered in the military)

This is a boy with many troubles and he desperately needs lots of therapy to make up for years and years of abuse. He is a mixed up kid and I doubt that he is of sound mental state to make this kind of decision. I would even put forth that he is making this decision to appease his abuser and for nothing else except to try and gain acceptance form the only 'dad' he has ever known.

He has been abused for years and now the military lies to him. I just want this poor kid to get a break and maybe have some self esteem. While he stayed at us he marveled at the dynamic in our house. He said, "I can't believe how understanding you are with your kids. If I had done that my mom would have cussed me out big time." He needs love, not war. He needs therapy, not guns.

[CountAllVotes]

24. it sounds like the poor kid has had a very sad life so far

and I do not believe that a new truck will fix one god damned thing!

My condolences to you & your family! :hug:

:dem:

[demgurl]

27. He has and thanks!

No, a truck will not fix it and if he is messed up right now wait until PTSD sets in and there is no help from the government! This is the last thing a messed up kid needs. I feel like I am letting him down all over again. I wish we had fought for custody years ago.

[CountAllVotes]

28. given what you have said about him

Frankly, I must admit I am rather surprised they even took him. It just shows how very desperate they are! If he tried to commit suicide at the age of 10 years, this tells us something I should think.

They don't care! They just want a warm body is how I see it. As long as he is still breathing, that is all they care about.

U.S. OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST!!!

[demgurl]

31. Well, I am sure he did not disclose his suicide attempt.

And since he went back with his mother right after that, I am sure he did not get the help he so desperately needed. She avoided doctors like the plague lest she loose her kids because child protective services would be called.

Once, when she was looking for a fix she locked his younger brother in her office building. When he realized he was alone he struck his head against the panes of glass until they broke and the glass from the door shattered on his head. (the kid was 7) She did not take him to the hospital. She told the family she had but we later found out she fished the glass out of his head herself and made up a bill from the clinic (she has good computer skills) and managed to avoid medical care and cops in regards to her son.

I doubt they know. But that does not change the fact that they are lowering their standards drastically.

[Seeking Serenity]

40. Not to try to minimize your concern, but have you considered,

given your nephew's history, that military service may just give him the discipline and structure that he has needed but apparently never got as a youth? It could help turn him around, and give him a sense of fighting (figuratively) for something bigger than himself.

Just an alternative way of looking at it.

[90-percent]

30. The old and quaint former National Guard

Prior to GWB, NATGUARD was for weekend warriors. There was fine print that you could be called up to active duty, but that was highly improbable.

GWB made a good portion of the NATGUARD first line troops in the middle east. They signed up for weekend warrior duty and end up on the front lines of a foreign civil war.

Just part of the damage GWB has inflicted on our broken military. These guys signed to work occasional floods or heat waves or other continental USA duties. They had no idea THEY WOULD BE AMONGST THE FIRST TO GO TO IRAQ!

It is in the fine print, but I bet most didn't sign up for hot war duties!

-90% Jimmy

[PurpleStateVoter]

33. I don't know your nephew but...

Unless he's not very bright Im betting he knew by joining the NG he may be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. I also highly doubt the recruiters told him he wouldn't be going to Iraq. Maybe he freely chose to do this.

[demgurl]

34. Well maybe it is willful ignorance....

since he was so convinced this is what they said that he handed me the recruiter's business card to prove to me what she had said. I wrote to her and asked her what the truth is and told her what my nephew believes he heard. She has not written back anything yet.

I did tell her that if she does not get back to me I will involve the media to find out why she will not assure someone willing to lay down their life for the country. She has until Friday and then I am going public with this to get at the truth. I think if someone signs up they should know what hey are getting into. If he believes he may be sent off, he has not shared this with anyone in the family. I am also not sure why he would give me the card, to prove his point, if the recruiter never said he could not be sent off. No, I think he was told this as others also have in the past.

[Cleita]

43. Pat Tillman? He was promised that he would not go to Iraq but

Afghanistan and he was killed by friendly fire in Iraq. Of course he joined the army, but I don't think the NG would operate any differently. So he was lied to. Maybe you need to point this out to your nephew and his mom. I hope it's not too late.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

[demgurl]

48. Same sort of situation for Casey Sheehan for that matter.

Yes, they lie and then our relatives die!

[Cleita]

49. Yes, Casey Sheehan is an even better example.

I think a classic example of this was in the movie "Private Benjamin" when the recruiter promised Goldie Hawn that there would be Condos in the army and she found herself in a barracks. Of course this was played for laughs but it pointed to the fact that recruiters have a long history of lying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. He died in Afghanistan...

[Cleita]

59. So the article I posted said.

My mistake. But he was sent to Iraq when he said he wanted to go to Afghanistan.

[B.S. Lewis]

57. That sucks, I'm sorry

I too would be upset.

It has been grimly hilarious to watch the National Guard's advertisements morph over the last few years from "One weekend a month" to "help defend your country in Iraq".

[demgurl]

58. The ads are showing in theaters around here....

and now my 8 & 9 year old go on rants veery time we go to the movies. It usually goes like this, "I can't believe they are showing these ads, those people are supposed to be here protecting with floods and things but George Bush has ruined them and now they are over in Iraq." Think they will be falling for the recruiter's BS any time soon? No, me either. My kids have been doing that for over a year now. Maybe it is time to let their cousin take them to the movies and let him see what a 8 & 9 year old think.

[B.S. Lewis]

61. I was referring to magazine ads

but I think I know the theater ads you are talking about. They are accompanied by some crappy corporate rock ballad by the likes of Puddle of Grace or Three Days Mudd or something, right? When I went to see that Johnny Depp movie about the throat-slitting London barber (good movie) my girlfriend at the time just about lost it over that ad. :)

[demgurl]

63. Yes, those are the ones.

They have some "cool" song and show the members of our guard. We loose it as well.

[B.S. Lewis]

64. Because I may not care about "fighting for my country"

but I can't resist doing something the DoD tells me is cool. :headbang:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

60. Tell all your family members to vote for Obama, then

Although, I'm sure they'll have an excuse for not doing that, either.

[demgurl]

62. I am pushing him on everyone anyway,

I do not believe in pushing a righteous candidate only when it benefits me. I have always hated to see the number of dead (on both sides) go up. I have always thought Obama will end this illegal occupation. Thank you for your advice. I hope everyone votes Obama.

[ileus]

65. Be proud of those still willing to serve.

[demgurl]

67. I am proud of people willing to serve and I ....

do know a military is necessary.

Be ashamed, and wary, of your government and commanders and their plans for our troops.Are all the people saying this may be good the same ones who say Bush may have committed crimes but we should let him go? I am trying to get my mind around this whole mindset.

So, let me get this straight. All of you who disregard the whole lying my nephew into the service (it is me who would loose him if he died, not you all) All of you are happy to not mention the lies or what our rulers have done our men and women along with the world. It does not matter to you that the military needs warm bodies and they can take kids like my nephew and they are fair game to lie to if he is naive enough to believe their lies at an age where he can not even vote, drink or enter into a contract on his own.

In other words, you would think it fair if someone hired you at 40K/year to work weekends stocking shelves. You show up to work and they say you are working at another store and it is one where the customers go around shooting at you but you are obligated to do it and can not get out of the contract. You are then told you must work full time and even though the union guarantees you a break after x-amount of time, you will not get it. You get shot and hurt and have to be sent home and they ask for $20,000 (half) of your salary back because you can not finish your job and you are obligated to repay it even though you did serve your country in honor. REALLY? YOU would have no problem with this? Because by ignoring the government's lies to lure in a boy who can not even sign a contract yet, you are saying to be proud an ignore the lies.

And, by the way, saying to be proud of them (as a blanket statement) is like saying to respect all Presidents of the US. Yeah, I am not so proud of that girl Englund. Oh, and the troops who made a father have anal sex with his son in Abu Gharib? No, not so proud of them either. And all the troops that torture? No, just can't seem to bring that pride up there either. OH, and since approval never went through congress meaning this is an illegal occupation, not war, I do try to be proud of the soldiers but wish they would go against * since what they are doing is helping him commit war crimes. I seem to recall a certain world war where people said they were just following orders but a ruling that said you may never follow orders, you must always refuse if what is being done is illegal.