Homeless in SanDiego threatened with Arrest

[maryf]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20080613-9999-1m13sweep.html

Homeless in camps told to leave or be arrested, I don't believe the numbers listed here are anywhere near realistic, where is the compassion?


'Bamboo City' is home to about 30
By Liz Neely and Anne Krueger
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITERS

June 13, 2008

SPRING VALLEY – Sheriff's deputies converged on several homeless camps in Spring Valley early yesterday, warning people to leave or be arrested.

Biocom
The primary target of Operation Clean Sweep was a swath of land – referred to as Bamboo City by deputies – off Quarry Road near the Spring Valley Swap Meet. Authorities believe as many as 30 people live there in tents and ramshackle shelters about 20 yards from homes.

“I think that you all know that you're trespassing,” Sgt. Marco Garmo told the dozen men and women found there yesterday. “I can't give you a time frame for when we'll be back. . . . We want to give you the opportunity to get all your personal belongings and leave.”

Sweeps are generally triggered by an increase in property crimes or complaints from residents and business owners. This one was prompted by a rash of thefts and a fire in a tree two weeks ago. Authorities could not say how many sweeps have been conducted countywide this year, and counting the homeless population can be tricky.

Walter Sanford, executive director of the regional task force on the homeless, said 101 homeless people were counted in Spring Valley during a one-day survey conducted in January. Only seven were counted in 2006.

Countywide, 3,856 homeless people were counted last year, compared with 3,033 in 2006.

Other major homeless encampments in the county are in Mission Valley near the Fashion Valley mall and the police station on Friars Road, the Pala area in North County, near Carlsbad's strawberry fields and in the canyon by La Jolla Parkway.

A sweep is planned this summer near Via Mercado in Rancho San Diego.

Near the Spring Valley Swap Meet, most camps were nestled deep in a thicket of bamboo. Deputies last cleared the area in 2005.

Giant piles of trash dotted the property, made up of four privately owned parcels that cover about 10 acres. Discarded clothing, bikes, toys, golf clubs and broken electronic equipment were piled high. Some people had mattresses, makeshift cooking areas and bathrooms. One person had hooked up a small television to a car battery.

Living in a camp gives homeless people a feeling of safety they can't find sleeping on the street, said Sanford from the homeless task force.

“In these bushes, you have the illusion of privacy,” he said. “On Broadway, you're open and vulnerable.”

The team of 12 deputies, a crime prevention specialist and a psychiatric clinician talked with the people camped near the Spring Valley Swap Meet as well as four others living in the canyon or the brush in camps or tents set up near Jamacha Boulevard and Sweetwater Springs Boulevard.

“I don't want to go to jail,” one homeless man told Robin Siminoff, a crime prevention specialist at the Lemon Grove sheriff's station.

“I don't want you to go to jail either,” Siminoff said. “I want to get you some resources.”

Homeless people were given a small bag of supplies and a list of shelters and other homeless resources.

Most have drug convictions. One man was arrested for violating his parole. One man was a registered sex offender, but checks in with his probation officer as required, deputies said.

From her backyard patio, Jessica Ramirez and her grandmother watched deputies work. Ramirez, 18, said the homeless are loud and one once urinated in front of her grandmother.

“We've had problems with them,” she said.

[EFerrari]

1. Here's a snip:

Homeless in camps told to leave or be arrested

Bamboo City' is home to about 30
By Liz Neely and Anne Krueger
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITERS

June 13, 2008

SPRING VALLEY – Sheriff's deputies converged on several homeless camps in Spring Valley early yesterday, warning people to leave or be arrested.

The primary target of Operation Clean Sweep was a swath of land – referred to as Bamboo City by deputies – off Quarry Road near the Spring Valley Swap Meet. Authorities believe as many as 30 people live there in tents and ramshackle shelters about 20 yards from homes.

“I think that you all know that you're trespassing,” Sgt. Marco Garmo told the dozen men and women found there yesterday. “I can't give you a time frame for when we'll be back. . . . We want to give you the opportunity to get all your personal belongings and leave.”

Sweeps are generally triggered by an increase in property crimes or complaints from residents and business owners. This one was prompted by a rash of thefts and a fire in a tree two weeks ago. Authorities could not say how many sweeps have been conducted countywide this year, and counting the homeless population can be tricky.

Walter Sanford, executive director of the regional task force on the homeless, said 101 homeless people were counted in Spring Valley during a one-day survey conducted in January. Only seven were counted in 2006.

[maryf]

3. Thanks, I just did the same on edit!!

Did you read the comments? and I put more in which makes me question whether the problems with the homeless are that bad, or its just another case of NIMBY.

[EFerrari]

5. It's always NIMBY or fear. I can't read the comments because it hurts

to find out how stupid people can be. I wonder how many paychecks "Zeus" is from losing his/her home?

[tishaLA]

15. Speaking of NIMBY, in Los Angeles we have a thing called

"Project YIMBY" >> LINK and People Assisting The Homeless

[EFerrari]

16. That's excellent. Bringing together community stakeholders,

imho, is the only way to go. ;)

[maryf]

17. Yes in my backyard! I love it thanks!

thats a great movement!

[bobbolink]

111. this deserves a thread of its own... could you please post it?

If you could gather a bit more info... like what has happened there because of this effort.... this would be an excellent thread.

Thanks for posting... this could give other DUers an idea of what they could do in their "own backyard"!

:applause:

[maryf]

20. Good question, what insensitivity!

I'M RESPONDING TO SOME OF ZEUS'S BS IN CAPITAL LETTERS



1. The law isn't enforced ITS A STUPID LAW AND NOT A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM!
2. The programs and services are not available to meet the need. THE ONE TRUE POINT HE MAKES.
3. There is a hesitation to put criminals in jail, for some reason,MAYBE THE COPS ARE MORE HUMANE!!! even the ones who aren't interested in ever abiding by the law OH AND WE KNOW WHAT CRIMINALS THE HOMELESS ARE, HOW DARE THEY NOT HAVE A HOME!!! ARGH

As free citizens, if we don't like the laws in our area, we can move to an area that supports the lifestyle we want to live. Any homeless person that doesn't like the options is free FREE IS ALL HE/SHE CAN AFFORD to seek his preferred lifestyle elsewhere. OH LIKE MAYBE A NICE MANSION IN IDAHO!!! THAT MIGHT BE THEIR PREFERRED LIFESTYLE!**If people are serious are solving this problem, the solution is there. LIKE BUILD MORE HOUSING AND PROVIDE IT!!!

OMFG THIS MAN PROBABLY WANTS TO PUT ALL THE IMMIGRANTS IN JAIL TOO!!

[tishaLA]

2. They did this already in Los Angeles

Started arresting people for being homeless in Los Angeles' skid row. It used to be an amalgamation of tents, makeshift structures, and people without any protection--until the LAPD started pushing people out, arresting them, and forcing them from downtown. It didn't solve the problem, of course, because people just went to Venice or Santa Monica or someplace else in LA. All it did was make the area look better for the many people buying condos in downtown.

[maryf]

4. Yep, outta sight outta mind!

Those homes ain't pretty, the people ain't clean, arrest them!!!:mad: This must be stopped somehow!!! Trailer courts next!! argh!!

[bobbolink]

8. It will only be stopped when "progressives" and "liberals" stop accepting homelessness,

support the homeless people in these cases, and DEMAND LOW-INCOME HOUSING.

Yes, it really is that simple.

Blaming the cops is ridiculous. :silly:

WE, THE PEOPLE are allowing this.

[maryf]

18. Absolutely!!

The 18 yo girl complaining about the man urinating? she's worse than the cops as a case in point...what does she offer as a solution to the fact that he didn't have a toilet, insensitive, intolerant, selfish,...etc.

Added on edit: It seems this is a "neighborhood" initiative going. Notice that the girl spoken to is 18 years old, were there no older adults from the "neighborhood" willing to speak?

The reporter states "facts", paraphrase most were drug offenders? stats please reporter, as you've pointed out before, Bobbolink, only a minority of homeless are such. The mess, many abandoned lots are used as dumps by locals...who's to say it was this group of folks?

The mention of the advocate for the homeless said they preferred being hidden by the bamboo, of course! they are walls of some sort!!

[bobbolink]

9. delete

because it said it didn't post...

grrrr....

[bobbolink]

7. What did the progressives and Dems of LA do to support homeless people there?

???????????????????????????

[tishaLA]

11. There was a pretty sustained response, actually

The ACLU averted the action several times, homeless activists tried to stop the effort, etc.

http://www.epath.org/toknowus/inthenews/newsarticles.php?article=127

The LA Homeless Blog has lots of information about it: http://lahomelessblog.org/

And look here:
http://www.lahomelessblog.org/2008/04/is-las-skid-row-initiative-working.html
http://www.lahomelessblog.org/2008/01/lapd-chief-acknowledges-need-for.html

The mayor has been somewhat helpful, but not as helpful as necessary. The best person in the city has been city council president Eric Garcetti, but city council, too, has been more than willing to let down LA's (very large) homeless population.

[maryf]

19. My feeling is that these funds would be better used ...

My feeling is that these funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing.
My feeling is that these funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing.
My feeling is that these funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing.

The best line in the articles you posted!! thanks!

[bobbolink]

33. "toward building permanent affordable housing." !!! Pleeeeez keep repeating!

This is where we need to use the RW tactics... Keep repeating this, everywhere.. Post signs.... hand out fliers.... Keep repeating, and maybe it will start to sink in.

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

[bobbolink]

38. I'm glad to hear that. HOWEVER, what I was saying, is the "progressive" population as a whole.

Did local Dems and "progressives" just mumble about it, or even stay silent?

Or did they get out there and join with the homeless people and homeless "activists" in protest?

What I'm getting at, of course, is that "progressives" will get "active" for the sexy issues... the war, environment, etc.

But poverty.... not so much. Ten-foot pole time.

THAT's what needs to change if we truly want poor and homeless people to have a better life!

[tishaLA]

43. I don't think I've ever encountered anything that I can say

was embraced by a "whole." So did progressives as a "whole"? I'm sure they didn't "as a 'whole.'" A good number did, but, as with most things, not nearly enough did.

[bobbolink]

54. I'm pretty sure you know what I meant, but if it struck a nerve, I guess

nit-picking sounds like a good idea.

SOOOOO, to chase the nits... Were there ANY "progressives" or DEMS besides only the ACLU and the "homeless activists" who made the effort to go support the homeless people?

[tishaLA]

56. of course there were.

In fact, in my first response, I named one--Eric Garcetti--who has been wonderful. Even mayor Villaraigossa, for all his faults, has been better than most.

And by the way, I just got out of homelessness at the end of December, so I am not picking nits and I take this issue quite seriously. I know many people who were displaced from skid row. So you didn't strike a nerve with me whatsoever. You asked a question and I answered it.

[Two Americas]

124. "as a whole"

"as a whole" means "in general" and "in practical effect" and "as a product of the group and the shared ideas and assumptions among the people within the group."

It would be impossible to discuss politics or social problems if we were not able to make that sort of generalization. I think that is WHY we are admonished for making such generalizations.

Ironic that the less fortunate, the homeless and minority people are routinely discussed "as a whole" with few people getting upset. But start generalizing about the more fortunate and the better-off, and the objections pour forth.

As a whole, as a group, liberals and progressives, a group which over the last 40 years has become mostly people from the upper 10% annual income bracket, and almost exclusively white, professional and college educated, have abandoned any concern for the less fortunate and actively work against the slightest hint of advocacy for the have-nots and are hostile to all voices from the political left.

[jwirr]

13. So what does it cost to place them in jail because they do not have

a home? Wouldn't it be cheaper to find a solution to the real problem?

[tishaLA]

14. of course it would

it'd also be cheaper to get them apartments than to keep them in shelters. But do you think our brilliant politicians think past their noses?

[Carnea]

23. If you get them apartments you raise the rents and often evict low income families.

We had a case down here the city bought an apartment building that already had low rents ($400-$550 a month)evicted the people living there making them homeless so the could "create" low income housing and give themselves a pat on the back.

[tishaLA]

25. that's obviously the wrong way to solve the problem

but one mistake does not mean that other efforts are bad, or are doomed to displacing others with homes. Remember: the whole idea of eradicating homelessness is to eradicate homelessness, not to displace low income people.

[Carnea]

26. I don't disagree but you often need to build new units or convert commercial space.

Renting current housing stock doesn't solve anyones problem. It just artificially raises the price for everyone else.

[bobbolink]

34. It's really not that complex or difficult.

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

[Carnea]

41. Giving many homeless people an apartment is just a good way to ruin an apartment,

Until a homeless person is drug, alcohol and tobacco free and gainfully employed for six months in a row they should not be "given" any housing.

Until that time they are welcome to live in city approved halfway houses with drug and alcohol counseling, free heath-care and psychiatric screenings through Medicare, as well as job training.

If they are not willing to stay in such a facility then they need to get out of dodge.

We are not talking about the temporarily displaced that some homeless advocates like to lump in with the core homeless population. A little activist bait and switch white lie. (It's like those adds for the animal shelter where they show the golden retriever puppies without a home and you get down there and it's 90% pitt-bulls.) All for a good cause I'm sure.


Giving the majority of street homeless a free house does them no favors. It's like giving money to a heroin addict. It doesn't solve the problem but both parties feel good for a little while till the money runs out.

I agree we need more affordable housing. I disagree that the street homeless should be given first dibs on any of it. They need to clean up their act first. There are too many hard working Americans living with roommates or their parents or in overcrowded housing that come before the street homeless.

[tishaLA]

42. Wrong. Giving homeless people an apartment is a good way to

eradicate homelessness. The services come later. This is called the "housing first" model and it has been incredibly successful everywhere it has been tried. Is it 100%? No, but nothing is.

And let's not forget that not all homeless people are drug or alcohol dependent. A good number have disabilities; many are LGBT (and especially transgendered); many others have depression.

And, FWIW, I have never encountered anyone who advocated giving a homeless person "free housing"--they advocate making the housing affordable and using programs like Section 8 to make living in an apartment possible.

[Carnea]

44. We probably agree more than disagree.

As I stated there are people that deserve housing ahead of the hardcore homeless population. You short list of disabled,
GLBT, depressed, and I would add Woman fleeing an abusive relationship and teens fleeing abusive home to that list.

That is the low hanging fruit and most communities have excellent public and private programs to deal with them. Now there is a lack of affordable housing and more needs to be built. These people are exactly who should be first in line for the new housing.

But they are not whom the OP was talking about. They were discussing the hardcore homeless who are homeless disregarding of the local economy or the efforts of local government.

Ironically the more a local government does for the hardcore homeless the larger the homeless problem becomes as they flock to the cities that are the easist to live in and give away the most free stuff.

We should recognize them for what they are. They are American Gypsies. And deal with them accordingly.

[tishaLA]

45. I don't know. I have no idea whether the people in those camps

are "hard core" homeless or newly homeless. And I'm not sure that it matters that much to me. The fact is that even the "hardcore homeless" tend to want homes. The "housing first" model I wrote about earlier says that the cure to homelessness is homes. It is a model I believe in and one that is simultaneously more humane and more affordable than the "solutions" ("get off the drugs and then maybe we can talk!") we have implemented for the past generation.

Here is information about "housing first"...their success is well-documented.

[Carnea]

46. There is a huge difference between Newly homeless due to circumstances

And hard core homeless choosing the lifestyle. Until you separate the two success will be elusive.

[tishaLA]

48. Beyond Shelter and those who do the housing first model

disagree. And the statistics they present back them up.

[maryf]

60. Did you read the article about housing first?

I doubt there are many hard core homeless choosing the lifestyle, very much doubt it. Choosing living on the streets to living in some of the more horrible shelters available may be true.

Do you realize how many "newly homeless" due to circustances never get back to having homes? or not for a very long time. There is not enough housing to go around!!

In the article I posted, I should have stressed the following line:

Sweeps are generally triggered by an increase in property crimes or complaints from residents and business owners.

complaints from residents, and much of the article, which I thought was poorly written, ambiguous, was seemingly biased. Again compassion, empathy, and even sympathy are sadly lacking. Even if most of these people have drug problems as the reporter states but does not verify (and I strongly doubt_, can one blame them? I'm sure being in a home would act as a great first step to recovery. Who would want to face life on the streets day after day with little hope. Drug is self medication for illness, a sick and broken heart is likely for the drug users here. Seems there are some sick hearts in this thread as well...lack of feeling...

[Carnea]

69. Yes I agree and if you put a newly homeless person in a new home.

With minimal counseling. (Depends on their situation but sometimes only a budgeting class or therapy to deal with an abusive spouse is needed)they will quickly be back on the road to recovery. I support and volunteer at these programs. I think they are wonderful. This is very different from the panhandling "professional" homeless involved in this camp.

[tishaLA]

73. How can you presume to know what kind of homeless they are?

Do you think that only the "professional" homeless live in these camps? In CA, there are many similar camps, and there are lots of people who have been evicted or displaced recently (mortgage crisis, etc.) and find in these camps a kind of support community.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_C1ewdPTsI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvyubNLbbjo&feature=related

[Carnea]

74. Honestly you can ask them... How long have you been homeless how

did you become homeless, have you lived at a halfway house before, do you drink smoke or use drugs currently, have you been arrested if so what for, what were your last five jobs, and the list goes on.

[tishaLA]

75. so you have asked these people at the SD park this?

Did you watch either of those videos I linked to? Both show that the camps that have formed in SoCal are generally people who are newly homeless, not the chronically indigent.

But, then again, I don't think that even matters.

[bobbolink]

127. "Newly homeless", as in "worthy" vs "unworthy"

What an interesting concept, since there are waiting lists for low-income housing that are YEARS long.

By that time, a person or family is no longer "newly homeless".

So, they become "chronic homeless" while waiting on a waiting list.

As a "chronic homeless" person or family, they are then considered, by definition of "chronic homeless" to be either mentally ill or alkie or druggie.

Because they were doing what they were supposed to be doing--waiting on a list for a place to live.

:crazy:

What a never-ending merry-go-round...

[Carnea]

76. THEY HAVE LIVED THERE FOR TWENTY YEARS

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/16603631/detail.html

I feel for them I do. And honestly since they have lived there for twenty years I wonder if it is new housing encroaching on there campsite.

Clearly they need some hard core help. I know I would after being homeless that long. Simply calling the housing fairy to magically give them shelter is not the answer.

They won't go anyway as they can't take their pets.

So the will fin another campsite further away from the people and civilization.

I wish them the best on there journeys.

[tishaLA]

77. That's not true about all of them. That's ONE person

I don't believe someone who calls them gypsies and links to a video of Cher singing Gypsies Tramps and Thieves really does "feel for them"; I think you prefer to judge the homeless and demonize them, as you have on this thread, as alcoholics, drug addicts, etc.

[Carnea]

78. I judge with humor compassion and honesty.

Look someone who has lived in a tent in the desert for twenty years doesn't want an apartment in some crime ridden slum and a shitty job she has to go to every year.

Me I'd turn the other way as they move further away from civilization.

The problem is civilization is encroaching on her habitat. simple as that.

There "solutions" are not one size fits all. Some people prefer the freedom of living outside and not having to answer to anyone. The sooner you realize that the easier time you will have helping only those that want to be helped.

[maryf]

83. professional pan-handlers

Are rarely "homeless".

[stillcool]

102. "Hard Core Homeless"..

you mean like Veterans?

[sudopod]

65. They are American Gypsies. And deal with them accordingly.

LOL WUT? O_o

[Carnea]

71. Okay that was a little harsh.

But my point was to differentiate the hardcore "professional" homeless from those we can easily help. Just like Welfare reform of helping newly released prisoners. There is some low hanging fruit that it is very effective to work with and their are people that are beyond your resources to help.

It's a fact of life you can't help everybody even though it might make you a better person for trying.

[maryf]

84. I'm sure the Roma

would be quite offended by the term "American Gypsies".

[Two Americas]

105. immoral and bigoted in so many ways

Don't know where to start.

"Gipsies" is a racial slur, no better than using the "N" word to describe Black people, and using that slur to smear another group - the least fortunate and most vulnerable among us, is as bigoted as anything I have ever read.

Please read The Tramp Circular below, and familiarize yourself with the compassion people had back in those old-fashioned dark ages before we all became "enlightened progressives.

I am much more worried about the hard core cruel and callous than I am about any "hard core homeless."

By the way, the facts about homelessness from the serious studies that have been done completely contradict your malicious assumptions about some connection substance abuse or mental illness and homelessness.

This is one of the most bigoted and hateful posts I have ever read at DU.

[bobbolink]

51. You have the RW talking points down very well, indeed.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Before you embarrass yourself any further on a "progressive" forum, I urge you to read:

The Root Cause of Contemporary Homelessness
While decades of homeless policy responses have focused upon individual – rather than systemic – factors to explain and address homelessness, the fact that millions of families,single adults, and youth with different biographical backgrounds came to simultaneously
experience homelessness in 1983 – and that millions continue to suffer on our streets today – requires a reexamination of historical and social structural forces.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3339108

Read the whole thing.

Please.

THEN, look up HousingFirst!, and read what they have to say. Bill Moyers did a program on them a couple of years ago.. you may have missed it. I strongly urge you to look it up.

Unless you are one of those who makes up their mind and that's that regardless of whatever information exists, you will find WHY you are mistaken.

If all you do is blast back at me with nauseating stereotypes straight out of the RW, I will not read nor reply. Others reading this will see that you have been given some very good resources.

Happy reading! :hi:

edited to include a link..duh....

[Carnea]

72. We agree there needs to be more housing.

A larger an stricter section 8 program would be a good start.

So we build the new housing and that goes hand in hand with no more living in tents, loitering in streets or panhandling. You must be sober, you must work or be disabled, and you must better yourself (jobs program education etc.)

What do we do with those homeless that don't want to sober up and get a job, who consider panhandling and prostitution a vocation, who leave their house we give them and go back on the street.

And what do we do with the thousands of homeless that show up from the surrounding small towns to get on a good thing.

The homeless often have more programs available to them than the working poor who pay their rent and taxes. And those that don't take advantage of the programs stay homeless.

The problem with homelessness isn't the homeless its the prostitutes and panhandlers and petty criminals steeling children's playground equipment for scrap.

Or the people that rip out the copper in the air conditioning unit at the animal shelter causing all the puppies to die overnight.*

So what should we do with those people bobbolink. Cause housing isn't their problem. **



* It was actually a nursing home but people like puppies more than old people oh and only a few people died.

** I'm came this close to using this phrase http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWeezUxIzaE

[bobbolink]

87. What do we do with conservatives who have hardened hearts?

for the answers to YOUR questions, I refer you to HOUSING FIRST.

You may learn something.

It will only hurt for a little while.

Housing First Methodology

“Housing first” is an alternative to the current system of emergency shelter/transitional housing, which tends to prolong the length of time that families remain homeless. The methodology is premised on the belief that vulnerable and at-risk homeless families are more responsive to interventions and social services support after they are in their own housing, rather than while living in temporary/transitional facilities or housing programs. With permanent housing, these families can begin to regain the self-confidence and control over their lives they lost when they became homeless.

For over 10 years, the housing first methodology has proven to be a practical means to ending and preventing family homelessness. The methodology is currently being adapted by organizations throughout the United States through Beyond Shelter's Institute for Research, Training and Technical Assistance and the National Alliance to End Homelessness' Housing First Network.

Recognized as a dramatic new response to the problem of family homelessness, the housing first approach stresses the immediate return of families to independent living. Created as a time-limited relationship designed to empower participants and foster self-reliance, not engender dependence, the housing first methodology:

Read More:

The "Housing First" Approach For Families Affected by Substance Abuse (PDF), an article by Tanya Tull, Beyond Shelter President/CEO. Reprinted from the Spring 2004 edition of The Source, a publication of The National Abandoned Infants Assistance Resource Center.

http://www.beyondshelter.org/aaa_initiatives/ending_homelessness.shtml

[Indigo Blue]

99. Carnea, I would really appreciate it if you would read this:

"The focus on individual problems shifts attention away from structural problems and obscures the real causes of homelessness."

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue43/BMandell43.htm



"The focus on individual problems shifts attention away from structural problems and obscures the real causes of homelessness."

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue43/BMandell43.htm



"The focus on individual problems shifts attention away from structural problems and obscures the real causes of homelessness."

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue43/BMandell43.htm



"The focus on individual problems shifts attention away from structural problems and obscures the real causes of homelessness."

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue43/BMandell43.htm



"The focus on individual problems shifts attention away from structural problems and obscures the real causes of homelessness."

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue43/BMandell43.htm


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I want to watch you pee into this paper cup to see if you have been taking drugs."

Posted by Sapphire Blue in General Discussion
Tue May 20th 2008, 10:31 AM

Homeless Shelters:
A Feeble Response to Homelessness
Betty Reid Mandell


HOW WOULD YOU LIKE SOMEONE to say to you, "Come with me into the bathroom? I want to watch you pee into this paper cup to see if you have been taking drugs." That is what is happening in some shelters for homeless families in Massachusetts. Steve Valero, a lawyer at Greater Boston Legal Services, is indignant about this and has been telling shelters that it is an illegal practice. Some shelter directors claim they had no idea it was illegal. They thought it would be better to have all residents tested for drugs rather than singling out one person.

Valero said that he tells those directors they have it backwards. It might be legal to single out a person whom you suspect of being on drugs if that person was behaving as if she is drugged -- for example, if she seems completely stoned and is neglecting her kids. But to test everybody routinely is an illegal invasion of privacy.

One shelter resident said that she had to undergo drug testing every week for over 40 weeks, with a staff member watching her pee, even though she has never taken drugs.

The war on drugs has invaded shelters for the homeless, treating homeless people as criminals. In this article I discuss the causes of homelessness, how the shelter system, which was presumably a temporary response to homelessness, has become institutionalized as the dominant response, and how it is used for social control. I discuss the various approaches to ending homelessness, many of them distractions from the main cause -- poverty.

~ snip ~

Blaming the Victim

I AM BEMUSED by announcements that come over the radio from time to time by foundations or institutes saying they are studying the causes of homelessness and seeking cures. In fact, the causes are quite simple and have been studied quite enough. Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services. It is true that many of the homeless are alcoholics or drug addicts, but they need a home while they are coping with their problem, and they need treatment programs, and both are in short supply. It is also true that many of the homeless have emotional problems. Who wouldn't have emotional problems if they were homeless? But they need a home while they are coping with their problems and they need support services. Both are in short supply. A disproportionate number of foster children who have "aged out" of the foster care system are homeless. A disproportionate number of veterans are homeless. It is the fault of the government that they are in this condition, but the government has deserted them. A large percentage of homeless women have been abused.29 While they may need a temporary refuge to escape the abuser and counseling to help them heal, they also need permanent housing, childcare, a job that pays a living wage, and social supports.

The focus on individual problems shifts attention away from structural problems and obscures the real causes of homelessness. It leads to stereotyping of homeless people as deviant and degenerate, drunk or drugged, or crazy. When these stereotypes are embedded in people's minds, they view every beggar as a scammer. Stereotyping leads to criminalizing the homeless, allowing cities to sweep them from the streets.30 It gives implicit permission to delinquent thugs to beat them up. One man made a series of documentaries in which homeless men fight each other, while being plied with liquor. Reality show producers took the homeless on shopping trips as a subject of amusement. On the Boston radio station WBCN-FM, DJs Opie and Anthony ran an event called the Homeless Shopping Spree, taking street people to a high-end shopping center, giving them liquor and money to shop, and ridiculing their purchases for the amusement of their listeners. Boston's Mayor Menino publicly expressed his outrage at the show.


Much, much more to read @ http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue43/BMandell43.htm



"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."


"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."


"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."


"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."


"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Sapphire%20Blue/583

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would appreciate it even more if you would read the whole article: http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue43/BMandell43.htm


And I hope reading this would open your eyes to reality.

[Indigo Blue]

100. Carnea, I've read through your replies; here's more for you to read:

"No matter what other factors may come into play in any individual’s experience of homelessness...

Posted by Sapphire Blue in General Discussion
Sun May 25th 2008, 12:01 PM

– without housing, that person will remain homeless."


-------------------------------------------

WITHOUT HOUSING: Decades of Federal Housing Cutbacks, Massive Homelessness, and Policy Failures


Executive Summary (Page 9)

Without Housing documents federal funding trends for affordable housing over the past 25
years, particularly funding for housing programs administered by the US Department of
Housing and Urban Development (HUD), as well as Section 515 rural affordable housing
administered by the US Department of Agriculture (USDA). It describes the correlation
of these trends to the emergence of a new and massive episode of homelessness in
the early 1980s that has continued to the present, and also demonstrates why federal
responses to this nationwide crisis have consistently failed. It is focused primarily on
what we consider to be one of the most important – if not the most important – factors
in explaining why so many people are homeless in the United States today: the cutbacks
to and eventual near elimination of the federal government’s commitment to building,
maintaining, and subsidizing affordable housing.

In 1978, HUD’s budget was over $83 billion.1

In 1983, HUD’s budget was only $18 billion.2

In 1983, general public emergency shelters began opening in cities nationwide.3

In 1987, Congress passed the Stewart B. McKinney Act, providing $880 million in homeless
assistance funding (2004 constant dollars).4

Since 1987, annual McKinney homeless assistance has never been more than $1.4 billion.5


Our perspective is that the overwhelming omission of the systemic and broad structural
causes of homelessness in public discussions and policy responses is nothing short of a
collective deception that has only led to increased homelessness. Federal responses to
homelessness have failed and will continue to fail unless and until they include a serious
and sizable federal recommitment to funding affordable housing.


The Root Cause of Contemporary Homelessness

While decades of homeless policy responses have focused upon individual – rather than
systemic – factors to explain and address homelessness, the fact that millions of families,
single adults, and youth with different biographical backgrounds came to simultaneously
experience homelessness in 1983 – and that millions continue to suffer on our streets
today – requires a reexamination of historical and social structural forces.

From 1976-1982, HUD built over 755,000 new public housing units, but since 1983, HUD
built only 256,000 new public housing units.6

From 1976-1985, a yearly average of almost 31,000 new Section 515 rural affordable housing
units were built, but from 1986-1995, average yearly production was less than half that of the
previous decade.7

From 1996-2005, Section 515 built an average of only 1700 new units per year.8

In recent years, over 200,000 private-sector rental units have been lost annually, and 1.2
million unsubsidized affordable housing units disappeared from 1993-2003.9
HUD budget authority in 1978 was 65% more than its 2006 budget of $29 billion.10


ii
The de-funding of federal affordable housing programs, coupled with the loss of public
housing units as well as private-sector affordable housing, should be central to any
discussion of the causes of homelessness, yet they have been all but ignored in the debates
about and policy responses to the current ongoing crisis. No matter what other factors
may come into play in any individual’s experience of homelessness – without housing,
that person will remain homeless.

http://wraphome.org/documents/Without_Housing_20061114.pdf



"No matter what other factors may come into play in any individual’s experience of homelessness – without housing, that person will remain homeless."



"No matter what other factors may come into play in any individual’s experience of homelessness – without housing, that person will remain homeless."



"No matter what other factors may come into play in any individual’s experience of homelessness – without housing, that person will remain homeless."



"No matter what other factors may come into play in any individual’s experience of homelessness – without housing, that person will remain homeless."



"No matter what other factors may come into play in any individual’s experience of homelessness – without housing, that person will remain homeless."




Indigo Blue (Sapphire Blue's daughter)

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Sapphire%20Blue/587


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Please read "WITHOUT HOUSING: Decades of Federal Housing Cutbacks, Massive Homelessness, and Policy Failures" in full @ http://wraphome.org/documents/Without_Housing_20061114.pdf

And please open your eyes.

And please also open the door: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Indigo%20Blue/3

[Occulus]

112. Why do they need to be free of the use of legal substances?

I don't get that at all.

[Nikki Stone1]

122. Downtown LA has been going through a "regentrification" over the past 20 years.

And Santa Monica actually feeds the homeless.

[bobbolink]

6. The only way to stop this shit is for muddle-class people to GET OUT THERE AND JOIN THE CAMPS!

Show some solidarity, folks!!

"Homeless people were given...... and a list of shelters"

RIIIIIGHT... shelters which are already full to overflowing!

BUT, of course, homeless people are sooo stoooooooooooooopid, they don't already KNOW where the "shelters" are.

:grr: :nuke: :grr:

[Trillo]

10. The "Pala area" is rather vague.

Much of the "Pala area" is Indian Reservation. Much of it is unimproved wilderness. Some of the areas east of Pala, in the mostly east/west valley are citrus farms. Some homes on large-area land plots.

All the other areas mentioned are very close to urbanized or suburbanized environments. Pala is not, though there is a small town that as I understand it, is part of the reservation. A huge new casino was built there a few years ago, it's the first result when you search for "pala" at google.

Maybe it's time for the government to set aside some land where homeless people can go and live sovereign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala,_California

[KoKo]

12. Thanks for posting this.. it's something DU doesn't always deal with.... Kick!

[maryf]

21. Thanks! Check out the Poverty Topic forum here

A bit more there!

[Carnea]

22. They a fire hazard. A health hazard and a crime hazard.

I support the homeless.

I wouldn't want any of them camped near my home.

For better or worse that's how I feel. (and yes I've been homeless before but it was the eighties it was different back then)

[bobbolink]

52. "I support the homeless. "

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm posting this excellent resource, not because I think you will bother to actually read it and educate yourself, but because I want readers to see that you have been offered VERY GOOD information, and don't follow up on it.

http://wraphome.org/documents/Without_Housing_20061114.pdf

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3339108

enjoy!

[demgurl]

57. I do not believe you were homeless because you would be....

much more compassionate.

I am sorry that you are afraid of the homeless but to say you do not want them anywhere near your house show such ignorance that it is beyond belief. I know any time you take a chance it can be scary but please listen to me and a whole new world may open up for you.

A while back I was scared to talk to the homeless because first off, what do I say, "Hey where do you live? I live up the road." That just did not sound right. Secondly, what if it was some crazy person and they attacked me? Yeah, right. When was the last time you read about a homeless person attacking another person? I never remember ever reading one report.

I remember the saying to do at least one thing that scares you shitless everyday. I saw a homeless person and I did it, I reached out. You know the scariest part? Caring and knowing that person has no home while you walk into your air conditioned house and sit back watching TV. It is scary hearing a tornado is blowing through town and having no way to reach that person since they have no home or phone. It is scary waiting to see if they show up on the same corner the next day and to be waiting on the edge of your seat to make sure they are still alive.

But the benefits outweigh the scariness, I am willing to live with the uncertainty of caring when the man leans over, during dinner, and says, "Thanks for making me feel human". It makes me feel so special when he and his friends (one girlfriend and one guy who hangs out with them) all want to give me a hug every time they see me. It is a benefit to see those scared shitless people passing by, not even looking at him, as I have parked my car and sit on the ground beside him talking and asking how he is and what is going on. They do not have the friendship I have with him. It is a benefit when I can open his girlfriend's eyes when she talks about Mexicans taking jobs and I explain they are trying to survive just like she is and I see alight come on in her eyes. It is a benefit to call them my friends and the benefit outweighs any negatives there might be.

These are people who have come into my house and done work. They have gone out to a restaurant and eaten with me. They show love and respect to my husband and children. None of our valuables have gone missing. No alcohol is gone. These are good people who have had bad luck like a lot of other homeless people.

Not near your home? I hope you never end up homeless and have people around you like that. Just having eye contact, alone, can give someone such dignity.

The way you think makes me feel so sad.

[Carnea]

67. Well let me cheer you up a little.

I was homeless in the eighties in my late teens. I was admittedly a spoiled dumb ass kid and my father kicked me out. So I was "on the streets" for six months or so. And yes I spent some time in a homeless shelter among other options. I'm sure I'm not the only person on this board to have this experience.

In fact many people in America experience homelessness. (especially if you include sleeping on your friends couch or living in a hotel as homeless as some activists disingenuously try to include)

And they are not homeless now.

Most people don't stay homeless very long. For some its a pretty loud wake-up call to fix their lives. (And yes I prescribe to the idea that if you found yourself homeless you might want to look in the mirror first.) This isn't about fault or guilt it's about dealing with what you can control.

And yes I volunteer with homeless people now. I'm a realist. If someone has been homeless more than six months chances are they need more help than a shelter. We have tons of programs for the homeless: clothing, free dental care, free medical check-ups, we pay their tuition at community college. And yes we give them job training and a place to stay. Are there rules like no drinking< no drugs and a curfew yes. If they don't want to abide by those rules they leave and go back to the streets.

What can you do with someone who is homeless for years and doesn't want any structured help? Giving them a home will simply lead to a trashed house and angry neighbors.

One last thing about living near homeless.

If they take care of the environment. IE no littering, no toilet paper on the ground ,no fires etc I actually don't have a problem with them. If hikers and campers can clean up their sites so can the homeless.

And second no panhandling and no petty crime. I have had altercations with panhandlers and those strange people who go through everyones car in the employee parking lot looking for change. (I ended up getting into an altercation with the latter that honestly still makes me cringe to this day.)

If the homeless are good neighbors only the harridans and scrooges among us would complain. But honestly a lot of them aren't good neighbors. They don't show respect for other peoples property and the environment. As a result good hearted people are strained to the breaking point.

There is a core group of homeless in this country that want to live the way the live and don't want anybody to tell them different. I really respect that. But I don't want them being my neighbor.

[City of Mills]

86. This has been my experience

Our city has a homeless shelter but there are requirements and structure, i.e. curfews, no drink/drugs, etc... there are dozens who cannot and will not stay at the shelter under these circumstances, and instead take up residence in several areas around the city. A few months back the police cleared out one of the wooded patches that was near to some homes and businesses because of complaints and the area was trashed and covered with condoms, needles and bottles and other nasty stuff. There is no excuse for this - I do not feel bad that these homeless 'junkies' were forced out and threatened with arrest. There is help available in my community but some choose this type of lifestyle over getting clean and rebuilding their lives. Not all homeless are equal.

[Carnea]

103. Thank you this is exactly the type of individuals I was talking about...

It's frustrating. Up above there is a thread about a woman forced to pee in a cup while someone else watches to stay in a shelter.... Well guess what... WE do the same thing because people were sneaking in their children's urine so they could pass....And staying drug and alcohol free is not to much to ask for room and board. Many of us have to do a lot more than pee in a cup to keep a roof over our heads.

You want to live somewhere without taking a pee test.... fine get and hold a job and rent an apartment from a private individual. No landlord has ever knocked on my door asking for a sample... You want to live in the woods and piss and shit on the ground... fine buy yourself a couple of acres in buff-fuck Egypt and have at it.... but don't do it on private property and certainly not in parks meant for wildlife or recreation.... Homeless no more belong on public lands than a toxic landfill.

There is nothing stopping them from getting assistance.... and there is a ton of assistance out there. In fact there is probably more private programs now for the homeless than ever before.

Oh by the way I don't live in San Diego or San Fransisco because I can't afford it.... I'm not sure why a person without assets looking for shelter would go to such overpriced areas.

[Indigo Blue]

108. "There is no jurisdiction in the United States...

... in which a full-time job at the prevailing minimum wage (federal or state) provides enough income to allow a household to afford a one-bedroom home at the region's fair market rent."

http://www.nlchp.org/hapia_causes.cfm


Carnea, I'm asking you again to look at reality (though this seems like an exercise in futility):

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Homelessness & Poverty in America

The Causes


Housing

Increasing rents, destruction of existing low-income housing, and cuts in federal housing programs threaten the availability of affordable housing.

Affordability is the critical housing problem for people with low incomes. Estimates indicate that there are twice as many low-income families searching for homes as there are affordable units available. Many homeless people are waiting on subsidized Section 8 housing lists - a wait that can take up to six years. Others cannot even get on to the waiting list.

And, only about a third of low-income families eligible for housing assistance actually receive it.

Millions of low-income American households pay more that 50 percent of their income on rent when estimates say the figure should be no more than 30 percent. Oftentimes, they pay more than half their income for substandard homes with serious physical problems.

The problem is getting worse. Studies indicate that the number of unassisted, very low-income renter households facing eviction is increasing.



Income

Over 30 million people live at or below the poverty line. Given the fact that nearly one in ten of extremely poor people become homeless, those individuals are at serious risk.

Millions of people are unemployed and minimum wage earnings don't lift families above the poverty line. It is shocking that almost half of the homeless population works, but cannot earn enough to pay for housing.

There is no jurisdiction in the United States in which a full-time job at the prevailing minimum wage (federal or state) provides enough income to allow a household to afford a one-bedroom home at the region's fair market rent.

Slashed public assistance leaves many people homeless or at risk of homelessness. Benefits for individuals are inadequate and difficult to obtain. Food stamps have been reduced.

There is a gaping hole in the so-called safety net.



Services

Inadequate government programs addressing health care, the mental health care, child care, and education prevent homeless people from escaping their circumstances.



Health Care

The millions of low income Americans without health insurance are not prepared to weather an economic crisis resulting from a prolonged illness. Homeless people are twice as likely as the general population to have chronic health problems but are not likely to receive adequate health care.



Mental Health Care

In addition, a significant number of the homeless population is mentally disabled, but dont receive the benefits to which they are entitled. Thousands of low-income individuals never receive substance abuse treatment because the programs are severely under-funded. And, the de-institutionalization policies of the 1960's left many individuals abandoned to the streets with no services or means of support.



Child Care

Child care for low income working parents is also an under-funded service in the United States. The help that is available only meets a fraction of total need. Millions of parents must choose between seeking employment and caring for their children.



Education

Finally, current education policy only serves to increase social disparity. Residency requirements, the inability to obtain school records, and a lack of transportation create barriers to public education for hundreds of thousands of homeless children. Many children are denied access to school, despite federal law.



Civil Rights

There are more homeless people in the United States than resources available to help them. Many homeless people have no place to be - except in public. Cities report that shelter requests made by homeless families go unmet more than half the time.

However, rather than addressing the causes of homelessness, some cities across the country are responding to this disparity by passing and enforcing laws punishing homeless people.

Some cities outlaw sleeping, eating, and even sitting in public even though there are no alternative places for homeless people to sleep, eat, or sit.


http://www.nlchp.org/hapia_causes.cfm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The focus on individual problems shifts attention away from structural problems and obscures the real causes of homelessness."

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue43/BMandell43.htm

[maryf]

118. Thank you Indigo Blue!!

Your wealth of information is a boon to us! :applause:

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

"Homelessness is caused by poverty, insufficient affordable housing and insufficient money to pay for housing, and a weak or nonexistent safety net of income maintenance and support services."

[maryf]

116. Beautiful Post, wonderful! sorry I missed it until now!

:yourock: :applause: Thank you!! You make me glad to be human!

[lonestarnot]

24. This is just wrong.

:cry:

[varelse]

27. Who needs homeless neighbors?

oh, well, I guess we're ok with it when they're busy dying to harvest our food. Otherwise, it's crackdown time.

Why is it, again, that we can't afford to keep the mental patients in hospitals, put the drug addicts in treatment programs, and provide affordable housing to the 60% or more of homeless people who don't fall into any of those categories, but instead are homeless due to poverty, disability, catastrophic illness, PTSD, or displacement by misfortune or disaster? I keep forgetting...

[Jester Messiah]

28. Define affordable.

For somebody who has absolutely zero income, what's going to be affordable? Is it going to be any kind of place that you or I would want to inhabit? Or is it just going to be another festering block of slums?

[varelse]

29. It could be the same housing you and I live in (unless you're a millionaire)

and a no or low-income family or person would receive rent vouchers to pay for it, depending on household income. These programs are in place in many counties, including the one I live in, but they are so badly underfunded that the waiting list to get in can be ten years or more :/

Laws giving renters protection from abuse by landlords, such as the ones in California, would also be needed.

[Gormy Cuss]

31. For someone with no income, affordable means fully subsidized rental housing.

and yes, I've been in enough public and subsidized housing to say that much of it is a place I would want to inhabit rather than living in a tent or under an overpass, but that's an academic exercise.

The real question is whether the homeless people living in such places would rather live indoors in dry, climate-controlled spaces with clean running water, a toilet, and a place to cook and store food, even if that space is in a "festering block of slums." This is just an academic exercise however because we're far from the goal of having enough affordable housing available. Until we do have a better alternative, harassing people for making do with what they have is just cold.

[bobbolink]

37. Hear, hear!!! You are the dependable voice of reason concerning housing!

:yourock:

When it comes to crime, however, I, personally would choose a tent in a safe place rather than constant threat of violence.

And, the same with some of the abuse in public housing!

[bobbolink]

35. Sing it, sistah!!!!

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

"These funds would be better used toward building permanent affordable housing."

:yourock:

:hug:

[slackmaster]

30. Nice misleading subject line

I know this isn't LBN, but the actual headline reads "Homeless in camps told to leave or be arrested" (emphasis added).

The city of San Diego actually has an ordinance that makes it illegal to sleep in public places. But because of constitutional issues, the police have been directed not to enforce it. We have plenty of homeless people happily camped out in suburban canyons, under freeway bridges, etc. The police do not harass or arrest them, but they do work with social workers to offer help to the homeless.

What this story is about is areas where homeless people have organized ramshackle communities in the brush, which creates big problems with crime and sanitation. We recently had an incident where a nine-year-old child was grabbed by a convicted sex offender near one of those camps which was adjacent to a public park.

...where is the compassion?

The homeless in San Diego have resources for help if they choose to avail themselves of it. They also have the option of living outside. But getting too many messed up people concentrated in one place causes real problems. Have a little compassion for the rest of us.

[annm4peace]

32. While Mortgage Lenders continue to make huge profits

It was Mortgage Lenders who added to this mess. CEO, CFO, and COO should be required to give 20% of the income, or last year's bonus to be give to communities in declared "declining market" to help set up shelters and assiste housing.
Some homeless need case workers.. they have mental illness, or head injuries.. or some have been in survival mode since they were children.

PBS's NOW had a show where some cities where doing such things.. they had a case work to help a person get stablized.

[slackmaster]

36. That's about as far off topic as you could possibly get

How's the weather on Neputne today?

[Trillo]

53. Compassion works both ways.

Many of us have hanging by the barest of threads for decades onto non-homeless status, more and more are becoming homeless as the economy deteriorates.

Hmmm.... post #30 by slackmaster also congealed the following

or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

I realize the above phrase is typically used to defend speech as well as religious freedoms (I'm no constitutional expert or lawyer either), but being homeless would seem a mighty big grievance given the modern culture of the last few centuries and particularly decades, and what better way is there to petition the government than for homeless folks to "peaceably ... assemble" in camps?

Are homeless folks "showing" instead of "telling"
as their form of "petition" to "Government for a redress of grievances"?

Later, as Homeless folks both "show" and "tell" and their petitions are ignored judging from what they continue "showing" to all of us, and given our human species' social and co-operative natures, organizing into "communities," whether "ramshackle" or not, would not only be expected, but be quite normal and natural.

It's a tough problem for capitalism and property owners to deal with. Our own government ended the 'hunter/gatherer' issue with the Indians by entering into treaty with them and granting them "sovereign" status on particular lands. So precedent would seem to have already been set....

Some international corporations seem to be following the Indians with respect toward sovereignty, this phenomenon seems coincident with government privatization.

It would be wonderful to have a 100% full employment economy at living wage levels with zero inflation over very long time periods, but when has even one of those items ever occurred? Instead, we seem to have an economy that keeps some of us at the 'hunter gatherer' stage as a matter of fact, then calls those people all sorts of demeaning names such as savage, drug users, convicted, sex offenders, "Get a job, loser", yada yada yada.

Maybe it would be healthier for everyone if government would conceive of another way that some could follow if they so choose, as opposed to the strategy of assimilation into an artificial civilization of wealthy predators and the rest of us as economic prey.

[bobbolink]

88. "redress of grievances" You make an excellent point!

I hope you will post this as a separate thread, because this is an excellent thought, worthy of much discussion.

Thank you!

:applause:

[maryf]

93. Communal living in a capitalist society?

Sounds pretty utopian to me, I like it.
Oh and the peaceful assembly might actually be defensible, I would think, if the land they are on in public access.

Great points!

[Two Americas]

106. great post

"...the strategy of assimilation into an artificial civilization of wealthy predators and the rest of us as economic prey."

Excellent, Excellent. How any Democrat can be ignorant of the long and sad history, with native peoples for example, of "help" really being about oppression and forced conformity to a social norm that is itself an aberration and unsustainable and inhumane.

I found it very telling that one poster uses the racist term "Gypsy" to describe in malicious terms the homeless, given that the Rom have been victims of this murderous social pressure more than any other persecuted group. May as well just call the unfortunate and suffering people "N*ggers" or "savage redskins" - that would bring us full circle and tie all of the loose ends together. White, suburban, successful, aggressive and domineering - that is the definition of "healthy" and "good" apparently, and all others will be singled out for special treatment.

Speaking of drugs, in Oakland county MI, one of the most prosperous suburban areas in the country, it was estimated recently that fully 38% of the "winners" were on psychoactive drugs. Why must the most downtrodden among us be forced to pass some sort of demeaning test or jump through hoops to prove that they are "good" or worthy of food and housing, while the predators need no license or certification to exploit and oppress the rest of us, and to them spout their hateful and inhumane dogma?

"It would be wonderful to have a 100% full employment economy at living wage levels with zero inflation over very long time periods."

That has been the rule rather than the exception throughout mankind's existence. It is not some pie-in-the-sky unreachable goal.

[bobbolink]

39. "plenty of resources"???? "Messed up people"?

Your choice of words says a lot.

It's interesting that you ask for compassion for YOURSELF, but it's missing in your words of people who are on the bottom rung.

Methinks you would do well to really do some reading and raising of consciousness.

I have little doubt from your wording that you will respond to my words with defensiveness. I respectfully request that you do some thinking and soul searching.

[Jax]

47. Vert good post bobbolink

Won't go anywhere with this one, he has the right wing talking points down pat when it comes to posts about the homeless. It is pathetic. There is never any compassion in his posts.

Pathetically transparent too. "Me mine Me mine" right out of the right wing playbook.

You hang in there. Subsidized housing, spot on bobbolink. Your posts are very important here.

Alyce

[bobbolink]

49. thanx, Alyce! I started to guess that, but being in the situation myself, your support helps

immensely!

Unfortunately, there are many DINOs with this viewpoint.

It's why I keep advocating that people learn the facts, and become involved in the education of the ignorant.

I was hoping to arrange some downloadable PowerPoints for people to use in their neighborhoods, families, political,church and civics groups. Maybe some day prior to my retirement.... sigh....

Thanks... your kind words mean a lot to me!

:pals:

[maryf]

66. Wisdom lives

at DU in your words, and your post shows true compassion as well, Bobbolink, for one who seems to need a great deal. Thanks! :hi:

[slackmaster]

79. I am gushing with compassion for people who really need it

Letting them stay addicted, off meds, lacking whatever their individual needs happen to be, and living in squatters' camps is not in anyone's best interests.

The police and sheriff's deputies are not simply telling people to leave or be arrested. Nobody is being told that. They are being offered other options. Read the article, not just the misleading subject line on the OP. There is also plenty of other information available online about the problems with homeless camps in the San Diego area.

[maryf]

94. Research the resources

They are farther from reach than you might think.

And I really am sorry about the subject line, I should have just used the headline, I couldn't cut and paste that and the link and am fairly new at this, and I wrote what I recalled quickly.

Despite the line about providing resources, the article did not seem sympathetic from the point of the homeless, IMNSHO, but mostly from the point of the one resident.

[maryf]

64. Oh I am sooo sorry!!

I will have to be more careful of my wording. Oh and my compassion goes out to all the messed up, including those incapable of feeling.

[Zorra]

80. Specifically, what resources are available for the homeless in San Diego

And how logistically and economically practical is it for the homeless to access these resources?

[Zorra]

81. Self-delete

[maryf]

85. Good question!!

The ability for the homeless to access and find out about resources is limited due to no address!! Those who are developmentally disabled really have a hard time.

[bobbolink]

89. Access to resources is mostly limited by FEW RESOURCES!

Having an address is just a part of that.

People think there are just soooo many "resources", and we need to change that perception.

[maryf]

92. Of course!

Primary "resource" needed: more housing!!!

[bobbolink]

96. That, of course... however, people assume there are so many other "resources", and they are wrong.

For instance, one DUer wrote just a few days ago that she is in a training program associated with some of these "resources", and has been left on hold, and not getting what she needs. Partly because they don't LISTEN to us, and partly because they are understaffed and underfunded.

Then, there's the "shelter" that so many "progressives" seem to think is the answer, and plentiful. Wrong. Not only is shelter NOT the answer, and causes more problems, but there is NOT enough shelter to meet the need. Again, we don't need more shelter, which I know that you know, but HOUSING.

I have experienced over and over and over what so many have gone through.. I call it The Wild Goose Chase. "Call this number, and they will help you.." which leads to call after call after call... (One person who thought she would "help" me and get "resources" for me experienced a wait of a MONTH to have ONE phone call returned! And she has a phone, and a husband who is usually home and takes good messages--imagine the "luck" a homeless person would have to have without a phone at all to get ANY response!) I have been referred to places I KNEW had nothing, yet if you say that "You aren't willing to help yourself." GAK!

My favorite was last year, being told to go to a place that was supposed to have apartments in Santa Fe for women. I KNEW it was only women with children, which the person referring me SHOULD have known BEFORE sending me there, and I was already sick, so I said I wouldn't waste time and effort going there when I KNEW they wouldn't have anything for me. Of course, I got her anger, criticism and judgement. A few months later, there was an article in the Santa Fe paper, and it said that not only was this place ONLY for women with children (which I knew, and again, the person who referred me and judged me SHOULD have known), but it said that they had turned away over ONE HUNDRED families because they didn't have room!!!

THAT is a common experience, for many of these "resources". We get sent, and there is NOTHING.

Can you imagine what that does to people over time to keep experiencing this?

Yet, you see posters who keep talking about "if they would just avail themselves of the resources". They know not of what they speak! But, its so much easier and a heck of a lot more fun to judge and criticize people who have no options.

:grr:

[maryf]

98. And when the people have no advocates...

I am sure the bureaucracy is trained to discourage and mislead. When my husband's parents both had to apply for disability, (his father had had a stroke, and was a professional writer, boom, job gone; his mother, who is bi-polar had several major psychotic breaks as a result); they were so lucky to have people (us) who would go to the office with them time and again and demand results. 18 months later they both were accepted. What happens to homeless people who don't have the stamina, understanding, or knowledge to battle the bureaucracy and get their needs/rights met? As there is not enough housing to go around the efforts to help are not forthcoming.

[bobbolink]

109. Once again, you're brilliant! You hit it right on the target!

It's like being in the hospital... if you have family or someone who is there completely on your side, you get more attention, better care, and, of course, a better outcome.

Those who are alone in a hospital often don't get the medical treatment they should have, are the last on the list, and often ignored. I think a lot of us have seen that. (The last time I saw it, the woman's husband was even there, but he was so passive, it was easy for them to skip over her. They didn't even give her the C-Pap at night that was ordered!)

I hope your parents appreciated what you did for them. I'm CERTAIN they got more attention and better outcomes because of your advocacy. If DU in general ever started taking poverty seriously, this is one thing that would be TREMENDOUS for people to take on.... Learn the system, and create a Volunteer Team of Advocates!

:hug:

Edited to add a relevant snippet from TA's post:

Such city ordinances are in flagrant violation of constitutional prohibition. The “rock-pile” and the “bull pen” have only been used in

degrading the friendless and poor,

and the relics of the departed auction-block era cease to disgrace the cities of Kansas.

[maryf]

115. AW, shucks!

:blush: I've been mentored by the best!

[EFerrari]

40. Kick

[bobbolink]

50. Error: You've already recommended that thread. Any reason why we can't get this on the GREATEST??

Aren't threads like this just as important as 20 threads on Russert?

:shrug:

[Duer 157099]

55. Combine this thread with the one about For Profit Prison industry

and I think you see the connection and the plan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3452851

[RedCappedBandit]

59. INDEED. nt

[maryf]

61. Great point!

And with all these jobs going to the prisoners, there are fewer jobs for the poor, meaning more become homeless and arrested for vagrancy and other non violent crimes, which places them in prisons. I guess its one way to get a job and a home.:mad: :sarcasm: :nuke: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[saigon68]

58. one once urinated in front of her grandmother.

yikes

What Next

[maryf]

70. Very ambiguous

An 18 year old girl is this reporter's main source for complaints against the people, perhaps the person was in front of a tree, or not cognizant of the grandmother. I've seen people urinating in public, most not aware they were observed, some might say they were in front of me. I really believe this was a biased report. Sad thats the part you focus on. If he had a toilet or a bathroom...

[saigon68]

101. Not mean to be ambiguous

If that's the only think they can say -----so what?

That's no reason to round up people like cattle.

But then again to make the city "Perfect" for children, small animals and grandmothers they have to eliminate the "Untermenschen"

[Cleita]

62. Maybe they should move their camp onto the nearest Congressperson's

front lawn. Would that be Darryl Issa maybe?

[maryf]

68. Bravo! great idea!

:toast: :applause: :woohoo: :yourock:

[sudopod]

63. Robert Mugabe called

He wants his urban renewal plan back.

[Zorra]

82. Too bad there aren't any self-policing government homeless camps like

Steinbeck wrote about in "The Grapes of Wrath". We're basically in a depression, and the numbers of homeless people and the socio-economic problems associated with homelessness are going to grow on a daily basis.

Summary of Chapter 22, "The Grapes of Wrath":

Tom pulls over the speed bump into the government camp and then to Number Four Sanitary Unit. The watchman explains governance: each of five units elects a Central Committee man, and they make the laws. How they allowed preachers but no collections, and no preachers came. All sleep. Tom wakes and finds a girl nursing a baby while cooking on an iron stove . He goes with her men to find work at Mr. Thomas' who informs them the Farmers' Association (Bank of the West) has switched the wage from thirty cents to twenty-five (they also sent the men who burned the camp; and they're going to the dance on Saturday). "A red is any son-of-a-bitch that wants thirty cents an hour when we're paying twenty-five." Ruthie and Winfield discover the toilets, then show them to Ma who is embarrassed to find out she's using the men's and that the Ladies Committee is due. Mr. Rawley visits and has coffee. Pa, John and Al go to look for work. Rosasharn learns how to shower. Ma: "Why, I feel like people again." Mrs. Shandry complains to Rosasharn about hug-dancin' on Sat'dy night and that Rawley's the devil, which he says he isn't. The Ladies Committee arrives and show Ma the Sanitary Unit. They tell Mrs. Joyce to stop stealing toilet paper; to take money and feed her daughters cheese. Ruthie and Winfield play with Amy, but Ruthie is ostracized. The men don't find work; John's not looking well. Ma drives Mrs. Shandry away; while Shandry howls, the manager notes she's not well. Ma tells John to get Pa to buy good stuff for dinner.

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/Steinbeck/grapes.html

[bobbolink]

90. Very good point. We're ALL so taken over by our RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM.

It's breaking all segments of society.

I see exactly what you're talking about, and I feel completely overwhelmed to try to figure out how to deal with it.

We're all so separated, even those of us who so badly need each other.

:(

Excellent quote! Thank you!

:hi:

[Greyhound]

91. We are doing this, us. Until we make up our minds that there is an acceptable

minimum standard of living in the US, things will continue to get worse.
:kick: & too late to Rec.

[maryf]

95. Yes, I am afraid

We are sadly on the way down a road of dire straits for the majority of us, we need to help those already there. Thanks! :)

[bobbolink]

97. You're so right! WE accept homelessness... WE just don't want to see it, or

know about it.

BUT change it?

Naw... it's OK to have people homeless.

Just NIMBY.

Thanks!

:hug:

[Two Americas]

104. The Tramp Circular, revisited

The Tramp Circular

by Lorenzo Dow Lewelling

In the reign of Elizabeth, the highways were filled with the throngs of the unemployed poor, who were made to “move on”, and were sometimes brutally whipped, sometime summarily hanged, as “sturdy vagrants” or “incorrigible vagabonds.” In France, just previous to the revolution, the punishment of being poor and out of work was, for the first offense, a term of years in the galleys, for the second offense, the galleys for life. In this country, the monopoly of labor saving machinery and its devotion to selfish instead of social use, have rendered more and more human beings superfluous, until we have a standing army of the unemployed numbering even in the most prosperous times not less than one million able bodied men; yet, until recently it was the prevailing notion, as it is yet the notion of all but the work-people themselves and those of other classes given to thinking, and whosoever, being able bodied and willing to work can always find work to do, and section 571 of the general statutes of 1889 is a disgraceful reminder how savage even in Kansas has been our treatment of the most unhappy of our human brothers.

The man out of work and penniless is, by this legislation, classed with “confidence men.” Under this statue and city ordinances of similar import, thousands of of men, guilty of no crime but poverty, intent upon not crime but that of seeking employment, have languished in the city prisons of Kansas or performed unrequited toil on “rock piles” as municipal slaves, because ignorance of economic conditions had made us cruel. The victims have been the poor and humble for whom police courts are courts of last resort – they can not give bond and appeal. They have been unheeded and uncared for by the busy world which wastes litigate with their oppressors, and thus no voice from this underworld of human woe has ever reached the ear of the appellate court, because it was nobody’s business to be his brother’s keeper.

But those who sit in the seats of power are bound by the highest obligation to especially regard the cause of the oppressed and helpless poor. The first duty of the government is to the weak. Power becomes fiendish if it be not the protector and sure reliance of the friendless, to whose complaints all other ears are dull. It is my duty “to see that the laws are faithfully executed,” and among those laws is the constitutional provision that no instrumentality of the state “shall deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” And who needs to be told that equal protection of the laws does not prevail where this inhuman vagrancy law is enforced? It separates men into two distinct classes, differentiated as those who are penniless and those who are not, and declare the former criminals. Only the latter are entitled to the liberty guaranteed by the constitution. To be found in a city “without some visible means of support or some legitimate business,” is the involuntary condition of some millions at this moment, and we proceed to punish them for being victims of conditions which we, as a people, have forced upon them.

I have noticed in police court reports that “sleeping in a box car” is among the varieties of this heinous crime of being poor. Some police judges have usurped a sovereign power not permitted the highest functionaries of the states or of the nation, and victims of the industrial conditions have been peremptorily “ordered to leave town.”

The right to go freely from place to place in search of employment, or even in obedience of a mere whim, is part of that personal liberty guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States to every human being on American soil. If voluntary idleness is not forbidden; if a Diogenes prefer poverty; if a Columbus choose hunger and the discovery of a new race, rather than seek personal comfort by engaging in “some legitimate business,” I am aware of no power in the legislature or in the city councils to deny him the right to seek happiness in his own way, so long as he harms no other, rich or poor; but let simple poverty cease to be a crime.

In some cities it is provided by ordinance that if police court fines are not paid or secured the culprit shall be compelled to work out the amount as a municipal slave; and “rock piles” and “bull pens” are provided for the enforcement of these ordinances. And so it appears that this slavery is not imposed as a punishment, but solely as a means of collecting a debt.

Such city ordinances are in flagrant violation of constitutional prohibition. The “rock-pile” and the “bull pen” have only been used in degrading the friendless and poor, and the relics of the departed auction-block era cease to disgrace the cities of Kansas.

And let the dawn of Christmas day find the “rock-pile,” the “bull-pen” and the crime of being homeless and poor, obsolete in all the cities of Kansas governed by the metropolitan police act.

It is confidently expected that their own regard for constitutional liberty and their human impulses will induce police commissioners to carry out the spirit as well as the letter of the foregoing suggestions.

L.D. Lewelling
Governor of Kansas
December 5, 1893

"Let simple poverty cease to be a crime."

Amen, governor, amen. May your words be heard once again.

[bobbolink]

110. Excellent piece! I wish this were used by DUers to be reprinted, and handed out!

Leave copies in Food Courts in malls, doctors offices, etc. Anywhere people look for something to read to pass the time.

Great piece!

:applause:

[maryf]

114. We are the press!!!

Get the printers working!

[bobbolink]

117. Indeed! We MUST be our own media.

Back in my dirtyhippiecommiepinkobum days, the really cool people had an underground press in their basement, and PRINTED and DISTRIBUTED stuff like this!

:hippie:

:hug:

[maryf]

119. I use a local printer, trying to find a union one

And I have to check where I post things, like post offices, grocery stores, etc., as they constantly get removed!! I figure if someone saw my flier before it got removed its worth it!!:pals:

[maryf]

113. Thank you!

Wonderful! bookmarked, filed, forwarded, and will be circulated... :applause:

[Two Americas]

107. kick

"Error: you can only recommend threads that were started in the last 24 hours."

[Two Americas]

120. kicking again

Thanks Indigo Blue, Maryf, Bobbolink and everyone else here who stands up for the forgotten ones and takes on the bullies and the hard-hearted and unhappy people who feel compelled to spread callous and thoughtless talking points. Perhaps they do not realize how hurtful their words are, or perhaps it is a reflection of their own pain that they are struggling with, and take out on others.

The research, the logic, your commitment and passion shown in your posts - I can't say enough nor adequately express my gratitude and admiration for what you do.

:grouphug:

[maryf]

121. Wow, right back atya!!

Ditto and Thanks! :yourock:

[Two Americas]

123. some day soon...

Some day soon, the headlines will read:

Homeless in camps told to leave or...

...be placed in camps.

[maryf]

125. Post du Jour!!

Right on target! On edit, except there they'll be "better taken care of"

[Two Americas]

126. illogical arguments

Notice how the naysayers and apologists for the status quo twist themselves into all sorts of knots trying to make their talking points sound logical. All of the talking points are intended to criminalize any and all forms of non-compliance for the purpose of enforcing social conformity, but no one wants to come out and say that because it would not sound "liberal." So we get all sorts of absurd rationales for persecuting people, or for neglecting them. Why must all comply and conform? If the modern American success model actually worked, if modern liberalism actually worked, if the suburbanized and corporate ideal we are all striving for actually delivered on its promise, then there would not be such hostility and resistance to any and all behavior or ideas that contradict it. This, again, is a variation on the cognitive dissonance that has permeated modern liberalism. There is a wide gap between what people know to be true on some level - that this crap we are trying does not work - and what people want to be true. So the illusion, the falsehood, needs to be aggressively promoted and forced onto people or it will collapse, and any time anyone says or does anything that illustrates the actual truth, and so highlights the difference between the truth and the illusion, those ideas and those speaking them must be vigorously attacked and suppressed.

[maryf]

128. In the family!

Whats tough is when its friends and family one must vigorously attack. I go with speaking softly in that regard; we need to build our numbers. When one is clear and verbose and can keep thoughts in proper order regarding the status quo (unlike myself!!), it is far easier to be able to verbally "attack". I myself need to go slowly, easily, and insidiously if need be. I have turned family members around by just repeating points, mine and theirs; mine sound more and more reasonable on repetition, theirs less so. An educational device called broken record. Different tactics in this war on truth that we are forced to battle. The Truth will out, but in time??

Of course, just knowing the facts totally is a huge ammo fund. And sometimes one indisputable fact can change a mind...ie: over 60% to 80% of homeless do not have mental illness or drug problems. Or Z Brezinkski is his foreign policy advisor...

[sendero]

129. There is going to be an explosion....

.... of homeless people in the coming years. I hope cities figure out how to handle it.

[Two Americas]

130. handle it?

You mean the government handling people? I am not so much hoping that the government handles us. I am wondering how and when we are going to start handling the government.

As things are right now, the government has figured out how to "handle" this problem of human beings who are in the way of the needs and desires of the wealthy and powerful all to well. The methods include illegal arrests and detentions, criminalization of practically everything including walking down the street or going to work and not being able to prove that you have permission to do so, increased police state powers in the hands of law enforcement, torture, rendition, interrogation and many other methods of "handling" these "problems" - otherwise know as "human beings."

[maryf]

131. wondering how and when we are going to start handling the government.

The job of people, we need to figure this out!! another bullseye, TA, :toast:

[Two Americas]

132. interesting and revealing, isn't it?

It always surprises me the number of people here who inadvertently reveal where their allegiance is. They say "we" when they talk about the rulers, and when they say "America" they also mean "the ruling class."

The debate then becomes about what "we" - the rulers - should do about "them" - the people. The general public is alert to this, and cannot see liberal activists as allies since they are always betraying their allegiance to the ruling class and their contempt for the general public without even realizing that they are. There is an unconscious identification with the rulers.

Turn your question the other way around, Mary. Rather than trying to figure out what we need to figure out in order to change the government, as though the standard and normal state of affairs were as things are now and as if we need to come up with some strange and unknown approach to change things, look at the power of the government and the concentration of wealth were things that we are now handing over in hundreds of ways. Without us the rulers have no power and the wealthy an powerful few have no wealth or power. The burden should be on the rulers, not on us. Think about how much time, money and effort is required by the ruling class to keep us bamboozled and confused and to continue to steal from us and dictate to us. They have the much harder job. Our job is to dis-bamboozle ourselves, first and foremost, keeping mind at all times that all of the wealth and power in the country rest with us before we give them away. That is why strikes and resistance work. We cut off the source of their power and wealth - our labor and our compliance. They have much more to lose, and much for to fear, and a much more difficult job than we do. Doesn't that open up a whole new area for creative thinking?

We cannot change conditions until we can accurately see conditions and start speaking the truth about them. Those trying to prevent that are not in Washington, are not in the government, but are among us, our supposed friends and allies. That is where the fight is. The current presidential campaign is much more about control of the party and the left than it is about beating any Republicans.

[maryf]

133. so we must talk to all the people...

and speak the truth about the status quo, and that includes those who are bamboozling and bamboozled on behalf of the ruling powers but not of them. If we can de-bamboozle some of those who mistakenly believe they are part of the upper echelon we may be able to stop alot of the bamboozling. They are still part of the 99% of us who are being bamboozled by the 1%, we have to keep reminding them of that. Regardless, there are still 90% who know we are not of the ruling class, and those who aren't aware of it need a strong awakening.

I agree that the general strikes and resistance are the movements of greatest consequence to the ptb.

[Two Americas]

134. pervasive atmosphere

Have you noticed over the years the pervasive atmosphere of stress and frustration that follows the liberal community around like a black cloud? I don't know how people stand it. That stress comes from trying to hold two contradictory ideas around in our minds at the same time. Are we working class, or are we not? Are we leftists, or are we not? We are trying to be good little players in the ruling class game and be in opposition to them at the same time. It doesn't work. There are a handful who are absolutely apologists for and defenders of ruling class interests and always will be, and a handful who are unambiguous advocates for the working class. Everyone else in caught in some bizarre world of confusion and frustration - "what can we do?" and "what is your practical alternative?" are expressions of that confusion and frustration. People are so afraid of seeing themselves as working class - "hey! I earned my degrees, and if everyone in the population were just like me it would be a lot better country, so don't try to tell ME anything!" - and so afraid to advocate for the working class or seriously oppose the ruling class - "you are talking violent revolution! We can't have that! Are you crazy??" - even though on some level they know that this is what must be done.

[maryf]

135. real quick

teachers have it real hard, those who scream "professionals"!! and those who scream "union workers",and teachers can be the most blind to what they see in the young about the status quo every day.