'NYT' Sunday Preview: Gore Vidal Questions McCain's Time in Prison Camp

[Newsjock]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003815866

In an interview for this Sunday's edition of The New York Times Magazine, famed novelist/essayist Gore Vidal appears to question Sen. John McCain's account of being imprisoned by the North Vietnamese during the Vietnam war.

Asked what he thinks of McCain, Vidal calls him a "disaster," then tells Deborah Solomon, "Who started this rumor that he was a war hero? Where does that come from, aside from himself? About his suffering in the prison war camp?"

Solomon replies: "Everyone knows he was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam." To which Vidal responds: "That’s what he tells us."

[midnight]

1. Could it be that he has this in common with Bush. They both

say they served when they didn't? Except McCain takes it a bit further.

[KingOfLostSouls]

2. Kinda a dumb move

anything attacking mccain's nam record is gonna generate a sympathy vote for him.


it'll turn into "democrats spitting on the troops" kinda of thing.

[eallen]

5. Yep. We should give McCain his due for that. And Obama will.

[roguevalley]

he gets no pass on military issues just because he was a vet. he

is open target on his views about this country and the military. he is pissed about the Viet Nam war, has always felt it could have been won but for the 'civilians' and he's planning to take this cluster f**k and show how it can be won. When he says he doesn't care about what us, the 'civilians' think, he means it.

[eallen]

22. No, he gets no pass on military issues. But that doesn't mean denigrating his service.

Those are two different things. I can disagree with his views of the Vietnam war, without suggesting that McCain somehow served in it dishonorably, or disrespecting the time he was a POW.

Let the Republicans denigrate the service of those whose politics they dislike.

:hippie:

[MashupPublius]

9. So true

These low blows do not help us. Let's keep the debate on the high road -- focus on Iraq, the economy, and the other issues that matter.

[THX1138]

10. Didn't

seem to hurt the GOP when they attacked Kerry for his nam record. They wore purple band-aids to the convention.

This is the second time I've heard Vidal mention this, I don't know if there is anything to it, but I would like to know if he is referring to something tangible or just wondering out loud. Vidal is not a perfect vessel, but he's not known for just making shit up

[KingOfLostSouls]

12. Yeah but remember

in the MSM its "ok" to question democrats service, not republicans.

thats how it'll play out, thats all I'm saying.

the media gives mccain a free pass on everything, but making it about his service in vietnam will be played out as "hippies spitting on the troops" all over again.

we don't need to re-fight 1969, we need to win 2008. thats exactly the ground republicans want to put us on, re-fighting the vietnam war, "hippies" etc etc. keeps discussion of how badly they've failed today.

[Peace Patriot]

15. Kind of like the Puke "swift-boaters" thing, ya mean? Spitting on war heroes who

happen to be Democrats? Or, uh, calling a guy who left three limbs in Vietnam a friend of Osama bin Laden? I say, take 'em outside and beat the crap out of these lying S.O.B.s. Call them out on their cowardly, sniveling, twisted Pukism. Come back at 'em. Dog them with it. Make McBush defend and explain the "swift-boaters" and Bush torture, again and again Never let them or the public ever forget what they did to Kerry and Cleland, and what they're doing to helpless prisoners.

[JackRiddler]

24. Not everyone lives on your chess board...

Vidal and other free people say what they believe. They do not triangulate in advance what constitutes a "smart move" for the Democratic Party, and Vidal certainly is not acting as a spokesperson or even member of that party when he speaks his mind. Either he speaks the truth well or he doesn't.

[AZ Criminal JD]

3. Vidal is a bitter old queen.

[texasleo]

19. Who isn't?

[montanacowboy]

4. McCain's debriefing is still Classified

Geo W Chimpass knows what is in it - it's a secret and I think Gore Vidal is definitely onto something. There is no corroboration of his time there by anyone except his own words. We need to stop acting like he is some sort of hero - he crashed his plane and was captured, that's all we know.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. I always wondered

how screwing up and crashing another plane and getting caught made him a hero. He survived captivity. That's good. But, heroic? No, there's nothing heroic about that.

Vidal has gotten everything right about this administration going back to when they stole the 2000 election. He hates the Bush family, and quite rightly so.

[Mist]

11. Really no corroboration? None of the other prisoners remembers

McSame? That's interesting.

[zbdent]

13. just read on an AOL board some RW apologist (who would rather gouge out his own eyes

with a rusty spoon than admit that Bill Clinton made a surplus that Bush wasted) said, in essence - "So, I suppose every POW is supposed to know every other POW distinctly???"

Of course, this type of "believer" probably believes that swift boater who swore that Kerry fabricated the story where he earned his medal, accepting the "swiftie's" story despite the fact that it nullifies the "swiftie's" own medal, which was earned on the very same situation as Kerry's ... so the swiftie lied then to get his glory? Or was he lying in 2004?

[Mist]

17. Well, if someone's a prisoner for over 5 years, yeah, he should become

aquainted with at least a few of his fellow prisoners! But reasoning isn't a RW specialty!

[AZ Criminal JD]

20. Are you insane? Don't answer that, I know the answer already.

Col Bud Day was McCain's cell mate for most of the time he was imprisoned. Col. Day is the most decorated service man since Gen. Douglas MacArthur, with more than 70 medals. He has spoken frequently about McCain's actions in Vietnam. Is he part of Vidal's conspiracy too?

[Gabi Hayes]

6. all you have to do is axe yourself if this had been Kerry's Vietnam experience,

what would those monsters made of it?

I'd like to know the truth, and I've read various rumors here, but have no idea what's real, what's made up

point is the repugs could NEVER care less about the reality of a situation if it helps them win elections

I'm afraid the hero narrative is too solidly embedded, especially with the media, and if there are reasons to believe he wasn't the hero he's painted, that it WON'T resonate against him the way the Swiftliar story did. and that's because of the RW Noise Machine/M$M. the real truth never, ever got out about Bush, and it likely won't about McBush, either.

Exactly as the real story about how his little drug fiend of a wife was able to turn her disgusting tale of lowlife theif/junky into an inspiring tale of redemption.

read about it here, in case you haven't. this story is really the only one out there that I've been able to find, spread by a few other sites, like Salon. I couldn't find ANY mention of it on mainstream sites. suprised? but that's the way it is: the major opponent in this election isn't McBush; it's the media.....it's been the media since Carter took over.


http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/drugs/index.html

[zbdent]

27. It wasn't Kerry's experience, yet my RW brother sent me "pictures"

of Vietnamese "currency" with John Kerry's picture on it ...

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[anonymous171]

8. If they go with this Larry Sinclair bullshit, we will need to swiftboat McCain.

Makes me :puke: but it has to be done.

[farmbo]

14. Many of his fellow POWs are saying he collaborated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5dPwegqgDU&feature=related

And there are allegedly 20 propaganda films he made for the North Vietnamese which have been suppressed so far.

[Mist]

18. Interesting. Thanks for posting that video. nt

[Clear Blue Sky]

16. I wouldn't go there.

Unless there is something big there, leave it alone. He's not making a big issue of it and it will give him sympathy.

Plenty of current issues to be discussing, not something from 40 years ago.

[Carnea]

21. This is a very bad and unnecessary road nt

[hustle13]

23. the difference

The difference here is that Kerry made his service a big deal "I'm John Kerry, and I served in Vietnam". McCain has not. Also, McCain did not back the swift boaters.

Leave it alone.

[Spiffarino]

25. His time in a North Vietnamese POW camp is well known

What he did while he was in it is not. For Vidal to even faintly suggest that he didn't spend time in a POW camp is ludicrous and a waste of energy.

However, what he did as a POW could become fair game if he starts a bullshit campaign against Obama. If he starts working with liars then anything true about him becomes legitimate to use against his sorry ass, even his service record. It's the least we owe Republicans.

[leftchick]

26. John McCain: War Hero or North Vietnam's Go-To Collaborator?

http://www.counterpunch.org/

<snip>

In any event, the man who rescued McCain tried to ward off an angry mob, which stomped on McCain for a while until the local cops turned him over to the military. McCain was in pain, but suffering no mortal wounds. He was, however, in enough pain to break down and start collaborating with the Vietnamese after three days in a hospital receiving treatment from qualified doctors – something no other POW ever enjoyed.

War is one thing, collaborating with the enemy is another; it is a legitimate campaign issue that strikes at the heart of McCain’s character…or lack thereof.

There are certainly degrees of collaboration. As a famous novelist once asked, “If you’re a barber and you cut a German’s hair, does that make you a collaborator?”

Being an informant for the Gestapo, or its stepson the CIA in Iraq, and informing on the resistance and sending them to their death, is different than being a barber. In occupied countries like Iraq, or France in World War Two, collaboration to that extent is an automatic death sentence.
The question is: “What kind of collaborator was John McCain, the admitted war criminal who will hate his alleged torturers for the rest of his life?”

Put another way, how psychologically twisted is McCain? And what actually happened to him in his POW camp that twisted him? Was it abuse, as he claims, or was it the fact that he collaborated and has to cover up?

Covering-up can take a lot of energy. The truth is lurking in his subconscious, waiting to explode. A number of US officials, including Andrew Card, have commented on McCain’s inexplicable angry outbursts.

[ColbertWatcher]

28. Wow!

Ballsy move Vidal.