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Why I’d Like to See Barbara Boxer as the Democratic VP Nominee

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:17 PM
Original message
Why I’d Like to See Barbara Boxer as the Democratic VP Nominee
Edited on Tue Jun-10-08 11:13 PM by Time for change
First I’d like to thank my daughter, bkscribe, for suggesting that I write this post. It’s great to have a child who thinks so much along similar lines as I do.

I also want to say that my writing this does not mean that I don’t trust Obama to make the right choice. But the choice of Democratic nominee for VP is just as much or more the choice of the American people as it is the choice of the Democratic nominee for President. After all, we will have to vote for the whole ticket or for none of it, and there will undoubtedly be a minority (hopefully small) of Obama supporters who will choose not to vote for the ticket, depending upon whom he chooses (I will vote for him no matter what Democrat he chooses). And we the people will also have to bear the consequences of whomever he chooses. In any event, any American citizen has every right to express his/her views on this.

Like most people, I believe that the choice should be made mostly on who would make the best President, but almost equally on who would make the ticket the most electable. After all, even if the potentially greatest president our country has ever known is nominated for VP, s/he won’t do us a damn bit of good if John McCain is elected President.

Lastly, given Dennis Kucinich’s recent contribution to the cause of restoring democracy to our country, I feel the need to explain why he isn’t my first choice for VP. Kucinich was my first choice for President among all of the declared candidates. After listening to his long speech yesterday I have more admiration for him than ever. I believe that if impeachment and removal from office is successful, and maybe even if it’s not, he will eventually be remembered as one of the greatest heroes our country has ever had. But after two unsuccessful presidential bids, he has not shown himself to be especially good at getting votes on a nation-wide scale. That is not a criticism of him. No great man or woman is great or even good at everything.

That said, I recently posted an article on DU on what I considered to be the top 10 priorities for our country when a new President and Congress take over in 2009. I will deal with three of them here, though I think that Barbara Boxer would be especially good with respect to all of them.


Restore our Constitution and the rule of law

I’ve said many times that there are few things that are more important than holding our current President and VP accountable for the many crimes that they’ve committed against the U.S. Constitution, the American people, and international law. When Constitutions and laws aren’t enforced, a terrible precedent is set that leads eventually to those laws becoming worthless. Our Constitution is a very large part of what make our country worth living in and being a part of. Without it we are quite vulnerable to tyranny. After 7 years of George Bush and Dick Cheney, our Constitution is now just about on its deathbed. Our failure to remove Bush and Cheney from office could very well be the lethal blow. Restoring our Constitution to health and respectability will be very difficult indeed if that happens.

Barbara Boxer is, as best I can determine, the only U.S. Senator to have publicly called for the impeachment of George Bush. Given the unfathomable reluctance of Democratic Party leaders to proceed with impeachment, that is a very courageous act. This is what she said about the subject during a radio interview (scroll up to top):

I've always said that you need to keep it (impeachment) on the table, and you need to look at these things, because now people are dying because of this administration. That's the truth. And they won't change course. They are ignoring the Congress. They keep signing these signing statements which mean that he's decided not to enforce the law. This is as close as we've ever come to a dictatorship. When you have a situation where Congress is stepped on, that means the American people are stepped on. So I don't think you can take anything off the table. Because in fact the Constitution doesn't permit us to take these things off the table.

Those are very strong words, stronger than those used by any other U.S. Senator during the course of the many crimes of the Bush/Cheney administration.

And Senator Boxer was not only one of 34 U.S. Senators to vote against the criminal and unconstitutional Military Commissions Act of 2006, but she also was one of four co-sponsors of the “Restoring the Constitution Act” of 2007, which would have reversed the Military Commissions Act had enough other Congresspersons had the guts to support it.

I have little doubt that as VP Senator Boxer will use whatever influence she has to hold the criminals of the Bush administration accountable for their actions and restore the rule of law in our country.


Restore transparency in our election process

When George W. Bush’s handlers stole the 2000 election, that was one of the darkest days of our nation’s history (except that it caused the DU to come into being ;) ). Yet there was an almost total blackout of news on that tragedy. In order for Congress to begin a debate on the subject a single Senator was needed to officially object to the results of that election. Yet, in the interest of “national unity”, not a single U.S. Senator came forward to object.

In 2004, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney stole yet another Presidential election – this time mostly by suppressing voters in Ohio. Prior to the inauguration of Bush and Cheney for their second term, John Conyers led an investigation into election fraud in Ohio and produced a great report, titled “Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio”, which described in great detail much of the election fraud that had been uncovered in the brief span of time following Election Day 2004. Again, one U.S. Senator was needed to officially object to the election, in order to trigger several hours of Congressional debate on the subject. I remember this well because I went to D.C. with a small group of people to lobby U.S. Senators to step up to the plate on this issue (We were able to meet with the staffs of Senators Kennedy, Nelson (Bill), Stabenow, and Obama).

This time, one Senator stepped up to officially object to the 2004 election. Barbara Boxer’s official opposition to the results of the 2004 Presidential election triggered several hours of debate in the U.S. Senate and the U.S. House. The final vote was a landslide in both houses of Congress against overturning the election results, with Boxer being the only U.S. Senator to object. She was joined by 30 House members, including Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers, but no U.S. Senators. But the several hours of debate in the House and Senate may have sown some of the seeds for the later surfacing of much more evidence for the election fraud of 2004. Here are some excerpts of Senator Boxer’s 2005 explanation of her decision to challenge the 2004 election, for which she was duly pilloried by Republicans in the U.S. Senate and House:

For most of us in the Senate and the House, we have spent our lives fighting for things we believe in – always fighting to make our nation better. We have fought for social justice. We have fought for economic justice. We have fought for environmental justice. We have fought for criminal justice. Now we must add a new fight – the fight for electoral justice.

Our democracy is the centerpiece of who we are as a nation. And it is the fondest hope of all Americans that we can help bring democracy to every corner of the world. As we try to do that, and as we are shedding the blood of our military to this end, we must realize that we lose so much credibility when our own electoral system needs so much improvement.

Following that election, Senator Boxer was one of our few Congresspersons to fight against the electronic machines that count our votes in secret with no recourse to ensure their accuracy, as she co-sponsored the “Count Every Vote Act”. She also addressed that issue in her explanation for her objection to the 2004 election:

Yet, in the past four years, this Congress has not done everything it should to give confidence to all of our people their votes matter… A year ago, Senators. Graham, Clinton and I introduced legislation that would have required that electronic voting systems provide a paper record to verify a vote. That paper trail would be stored in a secure ballot box and invaluable in case of a recount.


The Iraq War

Senator Boxer has been a consistent opponent of the Iraq War. She was one of 20 U.S. Senators to vote against the Iraq War Resolution of 2002. She was one of 8 U.S. Senators voting against the blank check for $86 billion in war funding in 2003. She was one of 8 U.S. Senators to vote for the withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Iraq by July 2007. And she was one of 16 U.S. Senators to vote against giving George Bush an excuse for yet another war by designating Iran’s Revolutionary National Guard as terrorists.

She has been outspoken in her opposition to the Iraq War. And to her great credit, she is one of the only U.S. politicians I have ever heard speak against the Iraq War from the point of the Iraqi people, whose lives we have destroyed in the millions. Here are some recent excerpts from Senator Boxer, challenging General Patraeus’ statements on the Iraq War:

It's time for President Bush and General Petraeus to take off their rose-colored glasses. Once again, they tell us that everything is going well, but a recent BBC/ABC News poll showed that 79% of Iraqis oppose the presence of American troops in Iraq, and 70% of Iraqis think that President Bush's "surge" has made them less secure.

As General Petraeus told the Boston Globe in November 2003, "We want to be seen as an army of liberation and not an army of occupation...There is a half-life on our role here, you wear out your welcome at some point. It doesn't matter how helpful you are. We aren't here to stay."

It's time for President Bush, Congress, and General Petraeus to heed those wise words.

We are sending our troops into a country where they're not wanted, into the middle of a civil war, into the middle of the mother of all foreign policy mistakes, with no end in sight.


A woman for VP

I have to admit that I have for a long time wanted to see a woman U.S. President, though I am not a woman. I believe misuse of the current U.S. military poses one of the greatest threats to world peace, prosperity, and justice that the world has ever encountered. I think that a woman President is more likely to do something to rectify that problem than is a man. In short, I believe that, on average, women are less violent, macho, and warlike than men (although I’m not sure that that applies to the average woman politician.) If that makes me sexist, then that’s what I am – I find it impossible to support the idea that men and women are equivalent in personality traits.

Anyhow, I also believe that there are many women in our country, mostly Democratic women, who are bitterly disappointed that the Democratic Party did not nominate a woman for President this year. Some of those women unfortunately will not vote for Barack Obama because of their disappointment. Though I very much regret that some women will take that course, I believe that I can at least partially understand how they feel. Many women in our country have lived through much sexist discrimination in their life, and they probably feel that having a woman President would give them hope that that discrimination will be more seriously addressed than it previously has been. Having been greatly disappointed in the dashing of their hopes for a woman President this year, nominating a woman VP may cushion the blow, give many women hope for a brighter future, and also regain many of their votes.

Barbara Boxer is not only a woman, but a very tough woman, as anyone who has heard her grill witnesses in Senate hearings can attest. Because of that, she may be able to win more votes than she would lose from men who are afraid of the possibility of having a woman President.

I don’t really feel comfortable advocating gender or race based voting, but I have less reluctance to include those things as one of many factors. And I hope it is obvious from this post that I believe there are a great many reasons for nominating Senator Boxer for VP.


Some other possibilities that I would be happy to see as Democratic VP nominee

I’ll end this post by noting some other possibilities that I believe have a lot to recommend them:

John Edwards: Edwards was my choice for President after it became obvious that Kucinich had no chance. My main reason for supporting him was that he has been one of the very few major party Presidential candidates over the last several decades to strongly advocate for the poor. I have also discussed several other reasons to support Edwards’ candidacy.

Russ Feingold: The only U.S. Senator to have the courage to vote against the USA PATRIOT Act.

Wes Clark: As a four star general who was commander of allied forces during the Kosovo War, Clark would add military balance to a ticket that might otherwise be considered by some to be lacking in military experience – notwithstanding Obama’s demonstrated excellent judgment in critical military matters. Clark also was a strong advocate for the humanitarian but politically risky strategy of reducing civilian casualties in that war by relying more on U.S. ground troops and less on aerial bombing.

Dennis Kucinich: No explanation needed

Al Gore: The man whose stolen Presidency led to 7 years and counting of one of our nation’s worst nightmares; world leader on the fight against global warming

Howard Dean: Early and outspoken advocate against the Iraq War; excellent job as DNC Chairman

Jim Webb: Long term aggressive advocate for pulling out of the Iraq War; Military experience; Virginia is a swing state that is very close now, and could be the final nail in McCain’s coffin

Ted Strickland: Ohio – No Republican has ever won the U.S. Presidency without Ohio’s electoral votes. McCain would be very unlikely to be an exception to that trend if he loses Ohio, and Ohio is very close right now. Strickland won the Ohio Governor’s race in 2006 by a landslide over the man who played the major role in the theft of the 2004 Presidential election in Ohio.


Is Barbara Boxer too liberal to run as VP?

Some may claim that Barbara Boxer is too liberal, based largely on the issues that I’ve discussed in this post. I would disagree with that. These issues should not be considered liberal vs. conservative issues. Is fighting for the preservation of our Constitution and the rule of law in our country considered too liberal? Is fighting to restore integrity to our election system considered too liberal? Is fighting to disengage from an immoral and illegal war that is busting our national treasury, killing our young men and women, making us more vulnerable to terrorism, and ruining our international standing considered too liberal? If the Republicans want to say that all these things make Barbara Boxer too liberal, then let them go ahead and try to explain that.

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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. I like your thinking.
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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. I really like Boxer but....
I think we need her in the Senate more, I would prefer Obama appoint someone that won't cost us any House or Senate seats. Howard Dean seems like a really good choice, tough as nails when needed and definitely a solid Democrat.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I doubt that Boxer being VP would cost us a Senate seat
There are numerous Republican Senate seats that are vulnerable, and only one Democratic Senate seat (Louisiana). I can't imagine the Republicans winning an open Senate seat in California in a year that is trending so heavily Democratic.

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Her replacement would be appointed by Gov. Schwarzenegger.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Not if she announced the vacating of her seat prior to Election Day
Then there would be two challengers competing for an open seat on Election Day.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
53. No, not in California.
The Gov would pick the replacement. In this case he would pick himself.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Vacancies in the U.S. Senate in accordance with the 17th Amendment
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 01:35 PM by Time for change
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate#Vacancies

The Seventeenth Amendment provides that vacancies in the Senate, however they arise, may be filled by special elections. A special election for a Senate seat need not be held immediately after the vacancy arises; instead, it is typically conducted at the same time as the next biennial congressional election....

I cannot find any exceptions to this for California. Could you please provide a link showing that California has an exception whereby the governor can appoint a U.S. Senator of his own choosing and not be obligated to call a special election for U.S. Senate at or near the time of the biennial congressional election? I find that very hard to believe.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Ok ... here's a bit of history.
In 1990 Pete Wilson was elected Gov of California. He did not resign his senate seat until right before he was sworn in as Gov in 1991. He then appointed a republican to take over his seat. THAT seat did not come up for election until 1992. In 1992 Dianne Fienstien ran for and one that seat (the short term seat ... up for election to a full term in 1994). Boxer ran for the other open seat (six years) and won.

THAT is how is works in California.

Now I LOVES me some BB. But she would not help Obama in the GE.

Regardless what would happen, if she won the vice-presidency OR resigned before the election .... ARNIE would PICK the person to replace her and you can bet the farm he would appoint himself.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. That's a different situation than what I'm talking about
Wilson's Senate seat did not become vacant until 1991, as you say. It was then too late to call a special election for 1990. An election WAS held for that seat at the time of the next biennial Congressional election, which was 1992.

The scenario I'm talking about is different. I'm saying that if Boxer's Senate seat becomes vacant at some specified period prior to this November's election (the precise date varies between the different states), the Governor possibly could appoint an interim Republican Senator to fill the seat until January 09, but California would have to have a special Senate election this November.

I am not positive that she would help Obama in the GE. Some believe she would, others believe she wouldn't. Certainly the Obama campaign could do some polling to help answer that question if they so chose.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Another example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Frahm

Still the bottom line is that Arnie would pick himself for that Senate seat.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. No, that's not true
Frahm was appointed an interim Senator by the Governor and then had to run in a special Senate election to defend her seat, and she lost.

Arnie could not pick himself for the CA Senate seat if Boxer resigned and left enough time between her resignation and November 08 for a special election to occur. Arnie could run for the seat, and he could pick himself as an "interim" Senator, but he would have to defend his seat in a special Senate election.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
67. I feel as you do, RonnieM. I would love me my Barbara Boxer as VP and
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 03:29 PM by truedelphi
She would be the same sort of Bullet Proof vest for Obama that Cheney has been for Bush.

But it would cost the Dems a Senate seat, and not any Senate seat, but a very powerful Senate seat.

For one thing, if the election is stolen, and I see no real reason why it won't be, she will at least be someone we can count on to join the Black caucus in protest.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. I like Boxer a lot but I think she'd be painted as the wacko ultra-librul from San Francisco!!!11 nt
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
81. Of course. Our corporate media paint all Dem candidates as ultra-liberal
In 2004, John Kerry was the most liberal Senator, and in 2008 it's Obama. They're getting to be like the little boy who called wolf too many times. They have lost a tremendous amount of credibility. Let them TRY to paint Barbara Boxer as "too liberal", whatever they think that means.
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Two senators on the ticket = McLoon landslide
If Boxer were the governor of California, she would be my first choice.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. What's wrong with two Senators?
There are lots of stereotypical issues like that which hang on because they aren't challenged. Bill Clinton went against the conventional wisdom by choosing a running mate from the same section of the country as he, and it didn't hurt him any. The Kennedy/Johnson ticket was two Senators, and that worked out pretty well. I don't see why two Senators should be a problem.
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Kennedy/Johnson worked out pretty well?
Well, I guess it did for LBJ and the "defense" industry. And the CIA's opium smuggling operations in Asia.

Not so much for JFK or 58,000 Americans who would eventually die in a useless war though. :(

Bookmark this thread. If there are two senators on this ticket, we will lose in November.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
84. Obviously, when I said it worked out well, I was referring to the fact that they won the election
Surely you're not blaming JFK's assassination and the Vietnam War on the fact that two Senators were on the ticket?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. Too liberal. We need a centrist.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Why do we need a centrist? Anyhow, I added a portion to the end of my post to address the
"too liberal" issue. You might want to comment on that.
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maui9002 Donating Member (342 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
50. Because GE can't be won with liberals only
or by conservatives only. Barack Obama, whether fair or not, is already being branded as a very liberal candidate (in fact, one of our own Senators, David Boren of Oklahoma, refused to endorse BO because he's the "most liberal member of the Senate"). To win the GE, candidates must appeal to the more centrist members of their own party (while retaining the allegiance of the base, which is not an easy thing to accomplish), independents, and even moderate members of the rival party. IMHO, Boxer would really hurt the ticket in that regard; I'm not critical of Barbara Boxer, because I think she represents her constituents well and she's not one to mince words about getting to the truth of a matter. I just think her national profile is too liberal for the GE.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Centrists aren't a winning ticket or didn't you get the memo with
Clinton losing the nomination? We need a real Democrat not some other DLC DINO.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. I'm with you.
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 06:06 AM by Rosemary2205
I really like Boxer and would love to have a world where she's considered a centrist but even some Democrats in the blue and purple areas of Red states think Boxer is a nutjob - let alone moderate Republicans than might be won over.

AND she's likely to be replaced with a Republican - which is not good.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Republican governor
that's the end of the line right there.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why it's a BAD idea
Her vacated seat would be filled by appointment by the California governor, who just happens to be a neocon and a GOP.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. If she announced the vacating of her Senate seat after receiving the Democratic nomination
there would be an election for an open seat in November, but she would continue to fill the seat until the new Senate took over in 2009. I can't see the Democrats losing an open Senate seat in California this year.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Got a link for that?
And she'd have to resign her seat prior to the general election, not knowing if they'd win.

Look, it's just not going to happen.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Consider this year, for example
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 05:56 AM by Time for change
There are 7 Senators this year who have died or retired (VA, CO, NM, ID, NE, WY, MS). All 7 are having elections, not relying on governor appointed replacements to serve after January 2009. Two of those races (WY and MS) were not normally scheduled to be held this year, but are being held because in Mississippi Trent Lott retired before his Senate term ended and in Wyoming, a senator died before his term ended. In both cases a Republican governor appointed a Republican Senator in the interum, but both will have to run this year in special elections to save their seats. That's why both WY and MS are holding two Senate elections this year. Here's the link for that:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/mccain-to-stick.html

Then there's Arizona. McCain could resign his seat now, in which case a Republican would get a chance to run in Arizona this November. But if he chooses not to resign his seat, and if he wins the Presidency, then the Democratic governor will appoint a Democratic Senator in Arizona to serve . Here's the link for that:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/mccain-to-stick.html



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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. not all states are the same
and retiring means they're not running again. Not that they're stepping down early.

You're suggesting Boxer step down early. Why would she do that?

No, she'd stay in her seat and if she won as VP, then she'd vacate the senate seat and Schwarzenegger would appoint her replacement.

But, it's a silly argument because there's no way he's picking a 69-year old jewish liberal from Marin as his running mate.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Why would she do that?
She might do it so that an election be held in November 2008 for her Senate seat, to preclude a Republican governor from picking the next California Senator. I doubt that she'd actually have to step down prior to November 2008, she'd just have to announce her retirement from the Senate as of January 2009, when the new Senate begins. That would force a special election for California Senator in November 2008 -- but if California law requires that she step down early in order to force the election, that would be no big deal either. I still couldn't see a Republican taking over that seat.

You might recall that Lieberman was faced with the same decision in 2000. He decided to play it safe and hang onto his Senate seat, meaning that had Gore/Lieberman won the Presidency, his decision to play it safe could have given control of the Senate to the Republicans. He received a lot of criticism for that decision. I don't think that Boxer would do the same.

Anyhow, the VP slot is a lot more important than one Senator, given that Dems are certain to have control of the Senate in 2008.

So, what is it that you have against 69 year old Jewish liberals? Which part of that description do you think is so offensive to the American people?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. NO!
You can't "announce" your intention to step down and trigger an election to replace you. You have to VACATE THE SEAT!

Larry Craig "announced" his intention to resign. No election was held.

What if she "announced" her intention, and Obama lost. She'd lose her seat, right? Or are you saying she'd get to keep it - that it's some sort of conditional retirement?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Why do you bring up the example of Larry Craig?
An election for his seat is being held in November 2008, which is exactly what I am claiming would be the case with Boxer if she did the same thing. Anyhow, as I pointed out, it doesn't matter whether she has to vacate her seat before November of 2008 or after. What does it matter if we have a Republican Senator from California for a few months between the time that she vacates her seat and January 2009, as long as an election is held in November 2008 for that seat?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. oh my god, this is exasperating....
Larry Craig's term is up. He's not running for reelection.

Barbara Boxer's term is NOT up until 2010.

And you're not answering this:

What if Obama loses? What's Boxer's status then?
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Retired. With a democratic successor. NT
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. If Obama loses and Boxer is the VP nominee, and she has resigned her seat, then she is out of a job
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 09:54 AM by Time for change
Obviously.

But there would be a special election in November for the California Senate seat, just as there are special elections being held this year in Mississippi, Wyoming, and Arizona if McCain decides to resign his seat and thereby give his party a chance to hang onto his Senate seat, as indicated in the link I sent you earlier:

McCain was asked whether he would resign this summer, and give his replacement the opportunity to run with McCain at the top of the ticket, rather than wait and resign only if he wins.

In other words, McCain is in exactly the same position now that Boxer would be in if she was the VP nominee. He can decide to hang onto his seat, in which case a Democrat would take over if he won the Presidential election. Or he could resign his seat as of a certain specified deadline, in which case he would be out of a job if he lost the Presidency, but at least he would give his Party a chance to retain his seat in case he won.

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. and a special election in which Arnold himself runs
Sorry, it's just guaranteed that we're not going to risk a democratic senate seat to fill the VP position. It's unnecessary.

Boxer, as much as I love her, doesn't add anything to the ticket. She doesn't help carry a single state.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Senate seats are risked all the time for VP nominees
Just among Democrats:

Edwards gave up his seat in 2004.

Lieberman risked his seat in 2000 (before we knew he wasn't really a Democrat)

Gore gave up his seat in 1992.

Lloyd Bentson risked his seat in 1988.

Mondale gave up his seat in 1976.

Muske risked his seat in 1968.

Humphrey gave up his seat in 1964.

Johnson gave up his seat in 1960.

In recent decades, Democrats have risked seats more often than not for the sake of the VP nominee.

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. oh you're not serious, are you?
Edwards did not give up his seat to run for VP.

In fact, none of the people on your list gave up a seat to run.

They ran. If they won, then their seats were filled. None of them resigned from the senate in order to run. And many of your examples are from a time when the democrats had a large majority in the Senate, and you don't tell us the party of the governors of those states.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. Yes I'm serious
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 02:55 PM by Time for change
Stand by -- I'll get the references.

For one thing, the Dems stand to pick up several seats this fall, so control of the Senate is not much of an issue.

First, in Lieberman's case, if the Gore/Lieberman ticket would have won, the Dems would have lost a Senate seat because there was a Republican Governor in CT at the time. And I believe that would have given control of the Senate to the Republicans.

In Gore's case, he gave up his Senate seat in 1993 to become VP. There was no way of knowing when he became the VP nominee whether the governor of Tennessee would be Dem or Rep when Gore gave up his seat, because there was an election for governor in November of 1992. So the Dems did in fact risk Gore's Senate seat.

When Bentson ran for VP in 1988, the Governor of Texas was a Republican, so if Dukakis had won, the Dems would have lost a Senate seat.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. I'm exasperating?
You're the one who brought up the stupid example of Larry Craig. Of course no election was held. Elections for the Senate are never held while an incombent Senator is serving out his term. Craig announced his retirement for 2009.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. oh for god's sake
yes, I brought up Larry Craig because he had announced an INTENTION to resign, then he reneged on it.

You seem to think that Boxer can announce her "intention" to resign, thus triggering a new election. That is not true.

She has to RESIGN.

Yes, this is extremely exasperating.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. Intention to resign
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 03:48 PM by Time for change
When I used that term, what I was referring to, but what apparently wasn't clear, was an official resignation as of a specified future date. Sorry that wasn't clear. I also said that I didn't know for sure if it was possible to trigger a special election on that basis, and I still don't know if that is possible. But I also pointed out that it's no big deal because whether she actually resigns sometime this summer or early fall, or officially resigns now at a specified January 09 date in the future, the difference is only a few months of an interim Republican Senator. So I don't know why you're making such a big deal out of it, except that being nasty seems to give you a lot of enjoyment.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
56. She could do a Joe Lieberman and run for both, couldn't she?
Joe ran for Vice President and Senate at the same time. When he and Gore got railroaded out of the election he still had his senate seat. Why can't Boxer do the same?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. She can do the equivalent of what Lieberman did if she wants
She can't run for the U.S. Senate this year because she is in the midst of a 6-year term, and the next election won't be be coming up until 2010. But if she was nominated for VP she could do the equivalent of what Lieberman did by retaining her seat while she ran for VP. The problem with doing that is that if she and Obama won the election, the California Senate seat would be vacant, and the Republican Governor could then appoint a Republican Senator to serve until 2011 (with the election held in 2010).

The advantage of giving up her seat while she ran for VP is that in that case, in my opinion, instead of appointing a Republican Senator to fill her seat, the Governor would have to call for a special Senate election this November -- in which case the Democrats would probably still have that seat. Some here disagree with me on that, saying that California is an exception to that general rule, and the Governor can just appoint who he wants and not even call for a special Senate election this November. But I won't believe that until I see proof of it.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. no
because she's NOT UP FOR REELECTION THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. more the equivalent of what Kerry did
run for VP, and if she loses she still has her Senate seat. No reason why she has to resign: is Obama planning on giving up his seat?

If she wins, then the governor gets to appoint someone until the next time a Senate seat is up for election, in 2010.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. oh my god...
yes, that's why Boxer is a no-go.

her replacement would be appointed by Schwarzenegger!

It's not hard to understand.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Not if she resigned her seat prior to the election
Then there would have to be a special Senate election.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. She's not going to resign
to speculatively run for the Vice-presidency. It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

And in the freakish case that she did, Arnold would RUN for the open seat and win.

I have no desire to replace my excellent senator with Arnold.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. I really like Brian Schweitzer for VP
I wish his profile was a little bit higher so that he would be considered.
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maui9002 Donating Member (342 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
48. Ditto
Sorry for the "Rush" terminology, but I agree; was disappointed to see that his name was not on the so called short list of VP candidates. I can think of no one else who can handle questions better than Governor Schweitzer--he's intelligent, funny, self-deprecating, and "real". It's a shame more people don't know him.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. It won't happen, but she's been my first choice for many months as you may know.
Barbara is energy. Barbara delivers Florida. Barbara opposed the war in Iraq. Barbara is a BOXER!
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Women Are NOT Less Warlike
Queen Mary Tudor wasn't called Bloody Mary because she liked the drink. Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria...no soft females there. They were as tough as they needed to be for their country to rise to greatness - and if that meant sending men to die, well, so be it.

Indira Ghandi led India to war against Pakistan.

Golda Meir ordered Mossad assassins to hunt down the perpetrators of the Munich attacks.

Margaret Thatcher led the UK to war over the Falkland Islands.


Of course, you did say, on average. Well, okay, on average they may be, but the type of woman who is savvy enough at politics to become a leader is tough. In fact, that woman may have to be tougher than the average guy to win.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Barbara Boxer is very tough, but she certainly is not warlike
Yes, I agree, and I said so in my post, that women politicians may not be less warlike than men. But Boxer certainly is.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't want to give up anyone in the Senate or Congress
Which is why I like Wes Clark or Edwards.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
22. K&R Great minds! I was thinking yesterday that I'd like Boxer as VP.
She's at once tough and yet quite feminine. I'm reminded of a famous quote, which I'll paraphrase here, by Lillian Hellman. (I think she said this about herself, but maybe someone else said it.) The gist of the quote was that she, in spite of her toughness, was "enough of a woman" not to be intimidated by putting on an apron and holding forth in the kitchen.

Barbara Boxer has shown the courage of her convictions. I don't remember how she voted on the war. I fear she may have voted for it, and that could hurt her as it has hurt Hillary. But she has stepped up and spoken truth to power many times since 2000.


BTW, congrats on having a daughter in your own image, intellectually and politically. I enjoy such a daughter, myself. Great, isn't it? :)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
41. Yes, it certainly is.
I think that Boxer would make a substantial contribution to our country as VP. And she would help pave the way for future women presidential candidates (though she'd probably be too old to run herself in 2016 -- but maybe not).

And she did vote no on the IWR, as shown here:
http://www.ontheissues.org/SenateVote/Party_2002-237.htm
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
72. Oh, thank you, for clarifying Boxer's IWR vote.
I should have looked it up, myself. I was too tired.

It figures. The woman has intelligence and integrity. Let's clone her, what say?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. Yeah, that way she could run for VP
and stay in the Senate at the same time, and that would eliminate three quarters of the objections to her on this thread :rofl:
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #77
83. Oh, no! Don't deprive people of their objections. Their levels will drop...
...and they'll end up in rehab! :banghead:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
25. Well, I think we all would, but, unfortunately, she'd
absolutely sink the ticket in some swing states.

You have to remember that, while Virginia and some of the mid-West states are starting to trend a pale blue, we're already having to change minds when it comes to race - we need to stand back on gender on THIS particular ticket (and I'm female!!).

We have to win so that we can continue to prove to some late-comers to reality that race or gender shouldn't matter and that the Democratic platform, mostly, helps the working class, whether he/she is white, black, brown, pink, purple or calico.

FWIW, I'd have been OK with either Obama or Clinton, but I don't think we should "overload" the ticket with TOO MUCH change - at least until we have some swing states in our pockets. ;)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. I was thinking the same thing until recently
I thought, "oh gee, a woman and an African-American on the same ticket, that will never go over in this country."

But that was before I saw the record setting primary votes for both Clinton and Obama, and recognized how many millions of women very much want to see a woman president and are so disappointed that they won't be seeing it this year.

You may be right about a woman and an African-American on the same ticket being "too much change" for many people. Undoubtedly that is true of many Americans today. But having a woman on the ticket will also bring in votes. The question is whether it will bring in more votes than it will lose.

None of us know the answer to that question. Surely, the Obama campaign can conduct polls to help answer that question. If having a woman on the ticket will hurt Obama's chances, I don't want to see that. But I don't think that we know at this point, and I suspect that it will help more than it will hurt.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
73. I actually think the country is more ready than we may think for ...
... "too much change." There are pockets of bigotry, for sure, but when we see the huge crowds that have been drawn to Obama -- faces of all hues -- it suggests that maybe we've grown up a bit as a country. Or maybe that the desperation of lost jobs and homes, no health care, what to do with Granny and Gramps, how to educate the kids, all of that is speaking to people at a visceral level, and they are ready to embrace something new. Maybe we *need* a tipping point, and not slow, conservative change. I've frequently said that if a leader would just stand up and tell the truth, the people would flock gladly behind him/her. We're all so tired of compromise and being played for fools! At least *I* am!

(I just read over that glowing paragraph I just composed, and I sure as H hope I can believe it!)
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
30. it won't be a woman as veep on the ticket.
nt
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
31. Frankly, I'd rather see her at the top of the ticket.
But that's just me, lol. I voted for her every year that she ran until I moved out of CA 3 years ago.

I'm not sure that I'd put her with Obama as VP. While I like her, respect her, and support her work, I wonder if the VP job is the right spot. It's not like she'd get to do anything about her stances on issues from that position. She would have to take, and support, Obama's stances, which are, in many cases, not as good as her own.

We'd lose her as a strong liberal presence in the Senate.

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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
74. Very true. We have to consider whether she would *want* the VP spot! :)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
80. I too would have liked to see her at the top of the ticket
But the VP spot can be very important, other than for the ability of the candidate to help the ticket win. In recent decades, VPs have played a much more active role than in the past. For example, Mondale, Bush I, Gore, and Cheney. And besides, they have a good chance of becoming president.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
33. Barbara Boxer is my hero!
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 08:44 AM by OnionPatch
I just love her and am so proud that she's my senator. She is a woman I would have loved to support for president.........However, to pair with Obama, I think we need someone with some military experience and someone who doesn't have such a liberal reputation. It's politics, ya know. Besides, we need her right here in California.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
35. If you think about it...?
She would be the perfect VP candidate. She is a woman. And she is a woman that most Hillary supporters would get behind. Also, she is Jewish. She could help with Florida and the Jewish vote all over. Also, she was very anti-war. She stood with Bob Byrd on the floor of the Senate to denounce the invasion. Hmmm...mmmmmm.....mmmmmm. :-)
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
36. I think she'd be terrific, but I don't think she'll be picked
Plus, I don't want to take the chance of losing the Senate seat...
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. I agree.
I'm assuming he will be looking for someone like Wesley Clark, a southern white guy with tons of foreign and military experience. Jim Webb fits the bill too but as you say, the potential loss of a Senate seat is not something we can afford.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. In Virginia, though
the governor is a Democrat and can appoint a Democratic successor...

Which is another reason I don't want Mark Warner as VP, either. Right now, he is almost a lock to win the seat vacated by John Warner's retirement unless he has a "macaca" type moment. However, we would have to give up that chance if Warner ran as VP.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Good points.
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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
39. ABSOLUTELY.
Boxer is my hero.
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cloudythescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
43. It's good to see someone else -- and very knowledgeably -- make the case for Boxer as VP
I still want to highlight a few other points.

First, don't forget her central role on the Greenhouse Effect. This should clearly be among the top priorities of any intelligent incoming Administration. I am concerned that politicians AND MOST ACTIVIST ORGANIZATIONS ON THIS ISSUE in the US are not demanding ENOUGH change, that what is being sought (80% reduction in net emissions of greenhouse gases (GHG's) by 2050 is CATASTROPHICALLY GROSSLY INSUFFICIENT. Boxer is the kind of figure who is both electable and more likely to at least bring the new sense of urgency from experts like Jim Hansen to the public. This is one of the more important qualifications she has.

Her resolute position on the Iraq War is very important and rightly highlighted. We should remember that, relative to almost ALL the people being considered for VP, INCLUDING HILLARY CLINTON, Barbara Boxer has a MUCH longer and stronger resume on foreign policy. Her position on Iraq is FIRST OFF, VERY much now the current feeling of the OVERWHELMING majority of Americans. It is one of Obama's strong suits -- and this is the USA: if you've got it, flaunt it, especially in the GE. SECOND, almost any candidate who EVER supported the Iraq War Resolution, or whose track record on the issue (eg Wes Clark) at the time is truly murky, would be a target of constant focus in the media at this point. In 04, there was the excuse (which I didn't share even then) that the public wasn't ready for a full-throated opponent of the war, like Dean. I think that was bullshit -- pardon my French -- but today there isn't even a fig-leaf of plausibility to this position. Obama is likely to lose more votes if he fudges on the war, including in choice of VP nominee -- after he made a central issue out of his 'judgment' on Iraq in his primary campaign -- than if he takes and maintains a CLEAR position on the war. THIRD, being against the war opens the ticket (more than a hawkish policy does) to CLOSER scrutiny of the foreign policy credentials of the candidate(s). This is arguably perverse, but it IS REAL. In this context, there is really a very small class of people, and an even smaller class of women, with Boxer's foreign policy credentials and credibility AND her track record on Iraq. I know this is just restating and underlining a lot of what the OP said, but these extra nuances are very important.

There should also be more attention to Boxer's appealingness as a candidate. She is REALLY REALLY popular in CA, and not just among a narrow spectrum of voters. She isn't "charisma deficient". And ABSOLUTELY -- winning is ABSOLUTELY crucial, and is a VERY good reason for supporting one possible VP against another. Focus on a left-right spectrum, assuming that only by picking someone like Clark or Strickland or whoever to appeal to the "center" misses the total picture that makes MOST people vote the way they do. Most ideologically oriented voters are already committed liberals or conservatives. The other voters are NOT in the "middle" mostly, but making judgments on other bases, like personal impression.

I would be interested in someone putting out the kind of knowledgeable review that the OP has done on so much, with a focus on Boxer's appeal to various constituencies -- especially older voters. It isn't just that she's somewhat older than Obama, but that she has a really strong APPEAL to the boomer generation and older. That general observation needs some more knowledgeable backing. CA Sen Boxer, second perhaps only to Bob Graham (who also has a very strong resume and voted no on IWR) would be very helpful in trying to win Florida. She should also help with certain other "swing" demographics, like suburban women. And having a woman on the ticket means not that HRC supporters will end up 90% going for Obama anyway, but that there will be real ENTHUSIASM. Boxer is a candidate that people -- including many NOT enthusiastic in support of Obama -- can GET enthusiastic about, and that might not just influence how they vote, but how much they get their FRIENDS to vote for Obama too.

I heartily recommend this post -- and urge others who feel the same way about Barbara Boxer to make their feelings known, as Clark and other supporters do a lot -- at this site and elsewhere.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
70. Thank you for that great addition of reasons to nominate Barbara Boxer
I knew that she appeals to me, of course, but I was not aware of how popular she is in California, and how much enthusiasm she stirs up. After reading your description I'm even more enthusiastic about her.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
46. I did a thread on this in GD-P
I agree!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
82. I'm sorry I missed it
Do you have a link?
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BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
51. Intelligent, well-thought out, and convincing post. Thanks.
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AteAlien Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
52. I wear only Barbara shorts these days nt
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
55. Barbara is my senator and I have had an ongoing relationship with her
through email and keeping up with her website and so on. I don't find her too liberal. She's actually common sense and listening to the common person. But since this country has conservatives who are fascists, her views on what really constitutes a democracy make her seem as a liberal, liberal. If Obama is President for eight years, it would position her for the 2016 election and the first woman President who I find is very deserving of that honor.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #55
75. I agree she would be a great candidate for Prez. I can't imagine...
...anyone having to advise her when, how, and how often to laugh, or how to nuance certain questions. I think she's self-contained and unfailingly present on her own behalf. That's how she comes across to me.

I'd like to be that strong, and yet that totally feminine and beautiful!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
79. That's the way I feel about it
If she had run for President she would have been my first choice. I used her avatar for a couple years or so before I switched to my current one to show my support for Obama.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. I agree completely.
She's my Senator as well and I think having her on the ticket would be fantastic. No, some wouldn't like her. Evidently our home is too wacked ouit for most of the country and that would be the biggest problem - their biases.
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
65. Two words: San Francisco
You know - that place where people marry their turtles, slurp lattes, and generally think they're better than the rest of the country. (OK, she's from Marin, which is even weirder by middle American standards). That's the first thing a lot of people - even staunch Democrats like my Rust Belt blue collar relatives - are going to fixate on, and the GOP propaganda machine is going to have a field day running all their stock weird hippie footage.

I like Boxer. She's my senator, I've voted for her every time she's run, and I admire the job she's doing in the Senate. And I live in the San Francisco area by choice. But I think she'd be a detriment on a national ticket.

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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
86. Wow - this post
made my Google alert for John Edwards. Can't rec but sure can kick! :kick:
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