Ok so after all this mess I feel more sorry for Father Michael Pfleger than anybody

[NNN0LHI]

Being from around Chicago most my life I have followed his career and have agreed with him on just about every issue he took up the cause for. I did not agree with many of the actions he took but that is another issue and I am not going to make judgments on that because I am not qualified. All in all he is a good man who cares passionately about his congregation. I really learned to admire the man. I am afraid now he is done. This is a sad day for me.

Don

http://www.suntimes.com/news/falsani/986648,CST-EDT-FALS04.article

June 4, 2008

BY CATHLEEN FALSANI Religion Columnist

For rent. The last time Mike Pfleger searched the classifieds for an apartment, he was a 20-something-year-old seminarian who hadn't yet taken a vow to obey his bishop.

This morning, Pfleger, the 59-year-old pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church, plans to move out of the rectory he has called home for 33 years and into an apartment in the surrounding Auburn-Gresham neighborhood.

He's not sure when and if he'll return. snip

There's something painfully ironic about Pfleger's (if temporary) ouster.

He's been thumbing his nose at authority -- secular and sacred -- for years in pursuit of what he believes God has called him to do: fight for the poor and the oppressed; battle injustice in whatever form it appears, be it racism, sexism, or classicism; and to above all present the God of revolutionary love and radical grace to the world around him. That sometimes has meant disobeying civil and canon law.

Pfleger has been arrested several dozen times over the years for civil disobedience. He's taken on drug dealers, big alcohol companies, the tobacco industry, Jerry Springer, the gun lobby, and gun-toting gang-bangers from his own back yard. He's also run afoul of three archbishops of Chicago, beginning with Cardinal John Cody, who ordained him in 1975, and who threatened to can him in 1981 when Pfleger adopted the first of his two now-grown sons.

[Fresh_Start]

1. can't say I do

of course, I don't believe that religion and politics should be joined at the hips.
I hated when the GOP did it.
I'm really unhappy that the Democrats are following suit.

The Father stood up in church and lied in front of an entire congregation.
That is not the same as civil disobeyance.
Its a sin against all the teaching of his religion and his vows.

[Gato Moteado]

4. i don't think the democrats were using pfleger to help manipulate....

...the malleable minds of churchgoers to fall in line and vote for a certain candidate.

the republicans, on the other hand, do this.

so, there's a difference.

pfleger's a rebel priest and that's why i like him. i'd like to see more priests within the catholic church rebel against it and take on the bishops and cardinals.

i agree with the OP here. of course, i'm from chicago too, so maybe that has something to do with it.

[Fresh_Start]

7. he was feeding into the prejudices of his audience

which is exactly what the GOP psuedo-preachers do.

It has no place in religion.
He does not deserve to be a religious leader.
Or he should make up his own religion.
And its shouldn't be called Christian because he's not preaching Christs teachings.

[Gato Moteado]

9. i agree what he did was wrong.....

....i just don't equate it to what the religious right does. they're in cahoots with the repuke party. pfleger just got a little crazy there.

obama quickly disassociated himself with the church and the pastors after that.

the repukes never disassociate themselves with the religious right organizations. if they did, they'd lose 50% or more of their voters.

[Fresh_Start]

11. I think that the GOP chose platforms to match the peoples

prejudices. I don't think they created the prejudices.

Anti-gay and pro-life positions are not a fabrication of the GOP. Nor is the view that a woman should be subservient to her husband or father.

The GOP made use of those convenient hooks. They didn't create the religions to serve their purposes.

[Gato Moteado]

15. i agree with you....

....they just pander to those folks. they say what the fundies want to hear.

[Fresh_Start]

16. and sadly thats what the Priest did as well

which is why I have NO sympathy for him.

[Gato Moteado]

19. that's one point where we disagree i guess

nt

[FSogol]

2. Is a Church really the appropriate place to mock a political opponent?

He did wrong and will have to take his punishment. He'll be reinstated at some point in the future.

[Gato Moteado]

6. it was out of place for sure....and the worst part for everyone involved was that....

...it didn't help obama close the gap with white voters at all. it hurt him if anything, and i don't think that was their intent.

[Robbien]

3. There are so few advocates for the underprivileged that to lose one is sad

Sending hopes for good karma his way.

Peace.

[blm]

5. I pretty much agree with you - and I am an atheist who'd prefer to see NO RELIGION in politics

at all. But, I understood exactly why the priest wanted to speak his mind about what he saw.

[KharmaTrain]

8. A Victim Of His Own Local Celebrity

I've followed Father Pfleger during the years as well and admired most of the causes he stood for. But outside this area he was nothing but yet another "nutty preacher"...had he done his rant at St. Sabina's, the shitstorm wouldn't have been anywhere near what it was since it took place at Obama's church. Same pulpit and easily transposed with Jeremiah Wright...which didn't take Faux long to do.

Part of me sees his disgrace as revenge for going after Jerry Springer and other corporate media trash that he felt exploited the poor.

As usual, the corporate media uses a snapshot rather than a bigger picture as it serves their narrative. It's a shame Cardinal George fell for the political spin machine...he could have handled this a lot better.

Cheers...

[NNN0LHI]

12. I had no idea you were from around this area until just now KT

Don't know why but I imagined you out west somewhere. Dakotas or something? Weird.

Don

[KharmaTrain]

14. Well I'm Told I'm "Out There"...LOL

I've been around these environs for 5 decades...started in Rogers Park and kept moving west. Actually I got to Iowa for one year, figured that was too far west and came back.

I'm out in the NW burbs...in "Greater Woodfield"...better known as Pleasant Valley Sunday.

Cheers...

:toast:

[Freddie Stubbs]

10. Perhaps if he had been preaching the gospel instead of honing his stand-up act

He was in a church, not a comedy club.

I've enjoyed pastors who have used humor in their sermons. But they were sermons, not political attacks.

This clown has served as a distraction to Senator Obama's campaign and endangered the tax-exempt status of Trinity United.

[NNN0LHI]

20. He thought the cameras were off

http://www.suntimes.com/news/983975,CST-NWS-fals03.article

<snip>All that is well and good, but how, as a friend and passionate supporter of Obama's campaign for president, could he do what he did, with cameras rolling?

Pfleger's short answer? He didn't think the service and his "conversation" -- a more casual address than a classic sermon, he explained -- were being broadcast live online, as Trinity often does.

"They told me it was down," Pfleger said. "Their live streaming had been down all day, and they didn't know whether it was back up. . . . I regret the dramatization that I was naive enough to believe was just going to be kept among that church." snip

How much longer, considering his rocky relationship with George and the fact that he's years and years past the archdiocese's official "term limit" as pastor of Sabina?

"Are you in jeopardy of being removed right now?" I asked.

Pfleger blanched and wearily rubbed his forehead.

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Cameras or not, it was not appropriate for a church

[Dorian Gray]

29. Agree...

His defense: "Oh! I thought the cameras were off!" Obviously, if he knew it shouldn't be televised, he knew it was problematic.

[countryjake]

13. Just listened to his sermon...too bad more Christians don't understand racism...

While I'm not religious, it was pretty refreshing to listen to a guy of his standing (and a member of such a club as the Catholic Church) deliver that intense condemnation of racism in America. If I did believe in sin, I would agree with him that this one transgression has kept our nation "on a ventilator" since it was "founded" and until it is recognized and confronted, this country will not move forward.

Thanks for posting that link to the article and video of Pfleger preaching. Until I listened to him, I figured that he must be "just another nutty preacher", since all I'd heard was the short soundbite that the MSM played over and over again, ad nauseam.

The guy has my respect for saying what needs to be said.

[butterfly77]

17. He was right about...

Mrs.Entitlement and it has become clearer and clearer each day..

[anonymous171]

18. More information on the man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pfleger

I'm pretty sad about this whole thing.

[earth mom]

21. I don't feel sorry for him. Maybe Oprah & Obama & Wright & Rezko can buy Pfleger an apartment.

[speakclearly]

23. What I find decidedly odd........

is that he said he thought the web cam that recorded his "sermon" at Trinity was inoperative. That suggests that he might not have given that sermon if he thought people outside that congregation might see it or hear of it.

How "honest" does that sound? He virtually admits that he will act in an inappropriate manner if he thinks others will not find out about it. And it is clear that he knew that his "sermon" was inappropriate and he only spoke that way because he believed it wasn't being recorded.

You can like Pfleger or even praise his acts in the past. He may be a colorful and inspiring person as he seeks to promote justice. But he was way out of line, he knew it, and he did it anyway. That was not very bright. And it embarrased Obama because Obama has sent several hundred thousand dollars in earmarks to the priest's programs.

Pfleger needs to get a grip. Lots of people want to see Obama elected, and they don't want some third person to smear him and make the election more difficult.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

24. Pfleger been a thorn in the side of the Chicago Archdiocese

for forever. He started his quest for justice when he was in high school. I know because the school I attended was branded in 1968 as "racist" by him. Now while I'm not saying that there wasn't some people in my high school that were racists in 1968, not of all us felt that way. But he branded the high school and parish as racist.

Yeah, Pfleger needs to get a grip. He has no one to blame for this except himself and frankly, Cardinal George didn't say that he was going to remove him permanently from St. Sabina. I think that Pfleger is working this for all that it's worth, ie., "the Cardinal's picking on me". What I still don't understand is why Pfleger was allowed to stay all these years at St. Sabina. I would venture a guess that he's only pastor in the Archdiocese of Chicago that has served the same parish for 27 years.

Quite frankly, I haven't liked or respected the man since his diatribe in 1968 on my parish and high school. He's far too judgemental. It's his way or the high way.

[AngryAmish]

25. Cardinal George has been looking to get rid of him for a long time, and Pfleger gave him an excuse

Cardinal George is primarily unhappy that Pfleger does not obey him. The cardinal also does not think Pfleger is a Catholic. He is also unhappy that Pfleger has been carrying on in public for so many years with Chris Zorich.

This was a long time coming.

[AngryOldDem]

26. I'll say this about Pfleger...

More priests should follow his lead in social justice work. While I think his sermon on HRC went over the top, the man has brouht much-needed attention to a lot of uncomfortable facts about life for some in Chicago. He personifies what the Church teaches is our duty to our fellow man.

[shrike]

30. A lot of them do. I know several personally

But like you, I'd like to see the participation higher.

I have very mixed feelings about what happened to Pfleger. I deeply admire what he's done, but it's possible his loose-cannon ways caught up with him in the wrong place, at the wrong time in history.

[Dorian Gray]

27. He's done a lot of really fantastic things

but, honestly, the words he used about Hillary were so disturbing to me, I don't have a problem with his removal from his church. It's preaching politics from the pulpit. I'd probably have walked out of the church if I heard where his sermon was going. (I say that being an Obama supporter.)

[UTUSN]

28. Just as with WRIGHT, his incredibly humongous ego eclipses whatever good causes

I was flamed to a crisp by GroupThinkers for reacting negatively to WRIGHT the day of the Press Club performance.

These fellows need to get out of the supposedly spirituality business and go where they really want to be: The stage, the movie screen, the circus. Or just civilian activism, where they could reach many more people, raise incredible cash, go global to match their talents and their self-gratification.


To the poster above who lamented that Dems have (recently) followed Rethugs by mixing politics and religion, a reminder: It was Jimmy CARTER who first did it. JFK had been the great re-stater of "the wall of separation" when he pledged not to let his religion into his politics. Jimmy actually has a couple of more such distinctions: One of his staffers, David RUBENSTEIN was a co-founder of the much maligned here Carlyle Group. And other of his staffers were a virtual nest of vipers at his breast: Tweety, Pat CADDELL.


*******QUOTE*******

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3994.htm

.... In a column posted yesterday on Salon.com, Joe Conason writes: "Preferring to avoid public scrutiny for obvious reasons, executives at the Carlyle Group usually say nothing about their firm's connections with the Bush dynasty. But last April 23, Carlyle managing director David Rubenstein spoke quite frankly about the comfy sinecure he provided to George W. Bush more than a decade ago -- and how useless Bush turned out to be. Whether he knew it or not, Rubenstein's remarks to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association were recorded."

Rubenstein said, "We put (Bush) on the board and (he) spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years - you know, I'm not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don't think you're adding that much value to the board. You don't know that much about the company.

Rubenstein continued: "He said, 'Well, I think I'm getting out of this business anyway. And I don't really like it that much. So I'm probably going to resign from the board.' And I said, thanks - didn't think I'd ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn't have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven't been invited to the White House for any things." ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[hunter]

31. Thanks for the video link. That's quite a flamethrower Pfleger's got. And he's right mostly.

The United States is not what it claims to be. It has never been what it claims to be.

The truth will bust out from where it stands, even whilst we deem the venue inappropriate.

We hide the problems we don't want to face behind curtains of propriety.

[Hangingon]

32. I have no sympathy for Pfleger.

What he did blurred the separation of church and state.